Diamond Member Username: BestmankindPost Number: 22082 Registered: Oct-05 | wassup guys. apparently our other thread started by some spammer got deleted. so how's everyone doing. i think i am taking a break from changing my car audio stuff around. no its not cause its perfect now. lol. its just i got the car modding bug in me now. should be getting the rims next week. after that couple of other exterior mods then its the engine. lol. |
Platinum Member Username: Rovin1 15 = 149.5 DBsTrinidad & T... Post Number: 14088 Registered: Jul-05 | didnt see u made a new thread because i was reading other stuff - so we got a future thread already laid out im prepping for d next spl comp here on aug31st ... |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10076 Registered: Jun-04 | Chad....Thats cool. Rovin....Are you going to hit that 150 this time? |
Diamond Member Username: BestmankindPost Number: 22088 Registered: Oct-05 | i need your opinion guys. you guys know i am about to buy some rims. now here are my choices. i want to buy the rims from this guy. my car will look just like this. i want to lower my car this low but only problem is i think the wheels are too deep inside. the price will be $1000. the specs are 18 x 7.5 with 48mm offset. second choice is this oem honda rims. with tires it will cost me $1500. brand new. it will give me the oem honda look at the same time have the size i am looking for. the specs are 18 x 8 with 45mm offset. and last but not least, its a set of enkei rims. with tires it will cost me $1960. the specs are 18 x 8 with 45mm offset. |
Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 17733 Registered: Jun-06 | I like the Enkei myself. |
Platinum Member Username: Rovin1 15 = 149.5 DBsTrinidad & T... Post Number: 14089 Registered: Jul-05 | enkei without a doubt FTW ....keep searching around though sean - what 150 phfffft ! , im shooting for 2-3dbs more ! ....laid out my new box design today & this time im using that cabin gain my hatch has ....sub up & 4 4" aeros firing back , around 50hz ... hopefully tomorrow i will get my 1" mdf & build it too... |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10079 Registered: Jun-04 | Rovin were you running a daily tune hitting that 149.8 db? If so that is very good. And if I would have recalled your best score like I did now I would have known you would be hitting the 150 this time. ps....my bro got .6 of a db with some simple tricks. He gained more than that but youll see the results at finals. He doesnt even have a double baffle or anything id like to see if he would gain doing so. Id also like to see him buy another piece of equipment. The limitations on electrical and wiring are the biggest hold backs. |
Diamond Member Username: BestmankindPost Number: 22093 Registered: Oct-05 | berny check it out. http://www.performanceplustire.com/products/wheels/searchType/searchByVehicle/ye ar/2005/make/HONDA/model/ACCORD/applicationID/9714/wheelSize/18/manufacturerID/1 69/productID/4695/wheelDataID/33900#prodAnchor |
Platinum Member Username: Rovin1 15 = 149.5 DBsTrinidad & T... Post Number: 14091 Registered: Jul-05 | sean my box was actually tuned high 50hz for shows to play music because if i tuned it lower it used to make my deck skip easily (no usb on my 860 premier) & then it just so happens that peak freq of my car is 50hz so i didnt have to anything to do that 149.5 ...box was facing 4ward with that score so now im firing rear & hoping for even more ...d day when i go to test i need 2 strong guys to hold down my trunk hatch - lol going for some 1" mdf today to make my new box ... my bro is coming for a visit so im asking him to bring a 9886 alpine with usb feature & a new 150.2 alpine pdx 2 chan amp .... |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10081 Registered: Jun-04 | Wow a 50 hz tune for daily interesting. How far hz wise did your sub drop? Oh and by the way I called my bro to tell him about that piece of equipment that I found for a very good price and he goes yeah I bought one from there yesterday haha. I hope the score goes up. |
Gold Member Username: BernymacCambodia Post Number: 4183 Registered: Sep-04 | Chad, this is GMR. I think its going to be pretty fun. Once I get the civic done I have a lot of friends who want to take me up there and show me how it is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBYmz7m1Ae4 |
Platinum Member Username: Nyyfan1315 Mag USA Post Number: 10158 Registered: Jul-06 | Anyone ever hear one of these subs? http://elevationaudio.com/endproduct.php?id=7 I'm really thinking about changing things up and trying one out even though it is a SPL oriented driver.....Or should I buy Cal's TC3k? Chad, I pick the Enkei out of those. |
Gold Member Username: Naledge503Portland, Or Post Number: 4113 Registered: Jun-06 | I like those gold 5 spoke ones too. They'll look real nice on your slammed accord. Heres my box from BJ. Its just the build thread. He said he was shipping yesterday so I will receive it next week. http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20327 |
Platinum Member Username: Nyyfan1315 Mag USA Post Number: 10159 Registered: Jul-06 | Box looks sick Jesse. |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10083 Registered: Jun-04 | Yeah the box is looking good Jesse. I saw that zac got back to you on the design for the integra do you plan on using that info? Is it spl only info or daily? |
Gold Member Username: Naledge503Portland, Or Post Number: 4114 Registered: Jun-06 | Thanks guys. I emailed Zac when he made that thread but I never heard back from him. I am worried about the box being on the small side. What happens when you use the smaller side of the enclosure recommendations as opposed to the larger side? |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10086 Registered: Jun-04 | Ok on Zac. You should be fine Jesse. Thats the smallest box recommended by DJ for them. The low end just wont be as intense when you use a box smaller than you should but your still within spec just with a lower tune. |
Diamond Member Username: BestmankindPost Number: 22100 Registered: Oct-05 | omg jesse it will sound horrible when you use the smallest rec box. man all that money spent on the box and it won't sound good. sux to be you. ahahahahahahahahaha just playing man. you'll be fine. that box will have tighter sound and i bet it will slam. |
Gold Member Username: Naledge503Portland, Or Post Number: 4115 Registered: Jun-06 | hahaha. I'm really anxious to get to bumpin again. Chad, that car is going to be slick when you're done. I need your suggestions guys. How much do you think I should ask for, for the sd2.5 motors? |
Platinum Member Username: Nyyfan1315 Mag USA Post Number: 10164 Registered: Jul-06 | Pauly: http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=337014 I hope you caught on that the wink meant to check this section lol |
Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 17749 Registered: Jun-06 | Lol. I'm loving that he is still bumping to his 8's. No hard feelings at all. He and I are through. As I'm sure his life here at E is. Not that I buried him, but his actions did. For fun guys I bought a scanner today. What fun it IS!!! Lol. I get to hear all the action, police, fire, emergency, ect.... Just about an hour ago someone got attacked by a machete. Purse snatchings, shoplifting's, break ins', anything the cops talk about over the radio I can hear. We live in a sick world lol. |
Platinum Member Username: Nyyfan1315 Mag USA Post Number: 10165 Registered: Jul-06 | Thats sweet Paul. Not so sweet about the stabbings and what not, but being able to hear that is awesome. |
Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 17751 Registered: Jun-06 | My father and my grandparents were big CB users and they killed many hours just "listening". It can be fun catching/listening to cross talk from 1000 miles away. The problem with the radio is that municipalities are switching over to digital transmissions. My scanner will eventually be useless. Someday. |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10088 Registered: Jun-04 | "I need your suggestions guys. How much do you think I should ask for, for the sd2.5 motors?" Jesse im not sure what to say you should ask for them but I might be interested. |
Platinum Member Username: Nyyfan1315 Mag USA Post Number: 10167 Registered: Jul-06 | Hey Sean, have you and your brother tried the Level 4 in a daily box tuned around 33-35hz? How is the low end of the sub? Does it get sloppy on lows? How is the overall sq of the sub? Also, is yours a 12 or a 15? |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10097 Registered: Jun-04 | I havent personally listened to it in the daily box but Scott said it had a decent sound. It was a 12 in a box tuned to 35 hz. Even though I havent heard it I would be hard pressed to believe it sounded better than your mag 15. Your mag had a beefier bottom end sound than the jl 12 w 6 that I heard with maybe a tad less sq . Id think twice before selling the mag Yanks Fan. If out put is what your looking for try the mag ported. |
Gold Member Username: Naledge503Portland, Or Post Number: 4116 Registered: Jun-06 | "Jesse im not sure what to say you should ask for them but I might be interested." PM sent. |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10109 Registered: Jun-04 | Ok Jesse ill check that out. |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10110 Registered: Jun-04 | Mr Chad I need your input on this thread. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/car-audio/507242.html |
Platinum Member Username: Nyyfan1315 Mag USA Post Number: 10171 Registered: Jul-06 | Alright Sean, I'll try it ported before I buy anything else lol. |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10132 Registered: Jun-04 | Good I dont think youll be disappointed. |
Platinum Member Username: Rovin1 15 = 149.5 DBsTrinidad & T... Post Number: 14093 Registered: Jul-05 | so how does a mag compare to a RE SX ? ... |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10137 Registered: Jun-04 | I havent sat in and listened to a RE sx but I saw one 12 put up a 138 db in a trunk car on about 1200 rms in a daily box tuned to about 35 hz I think. |
Gold Member Username: Naledge503Portland, Or Post Number: 4119 Registered: Jun-06 | Hey Sean, just as a starting point for me, what tone would you burp with my system tuned to 35Hz? I have no way to test with termlab or anything. I know that the cars res freq plays a huge role but I thought there was a general rule that you will peak 10Hz above box tuning? I may be going to the comp this next saturday so I want to get as much info about things as possible. I will either do stock 601-1800watt class which is tones, or enter Street Beat2 (SB2) which is avg spl on music for 30 sec. If I can find a song that is very near my peak frequency and plays that frequency for almost the entire song I can do well in SB2 I think. |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10140 Registered: Jun-04 | I think your frequency will be 53 hz but it could be 50-54 hz. Id go in the class where you use tones for simplicity since you dont know your best note yet or have a song prepared. If I had to guess id say youll hit a 144 to 145 db on tones. |
Gold Member Username: Naledge503Portland, Or Post Number: 4120 Registered: Jun-06 | Is that just from your experience? Did you ever have the 2.5's in your CRX? |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10145 Registered: Jun-04 | That was what was the loudest frequency in the older integra so I assume yours will be the same. My bro just recently bought the crx and sold the audioque 2.5 before buying the crx to my cousin and its just sitting right now. We did test the audioque in my buddies crx in the daily box briefly and it was 6 db less loud at the crx's best frequency than it was in the liberty. But im sure with time we could have changed that outcome. |
Gold Member Username: Naledge503Portland, Or Post Number: 4122 Registered: Jun-06 | Another guy on CA who has an integra said he peaked at 52Hz so, you are right on about the peak freq range. Now how will playing that tone do with my box tuned to 35Hz? |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10147 Registered: Jun-04 | That spl I predicted was using your 35 hz tuned box. |
Gold Member Username: Naledge503Portland, Or Post Number: 4123 Registered: Jun-06 | I've decided that if I make it to this comp that I am going to enter both events. |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10152 Registered: Jun-04 | Sounds good. Even if your music isnt on your best frequency it should still be close in spl because you have a general idea what frequency it is. |
Platinum Member Username: Rovin1 15 = 149.5 DBsTrinidad & T... Post Number: 14096 Registered: Jul-05 | sean whats d best or correct way to test spl ? ...lets say my hu goes up to 40 should i start at 20 & then just keep going up on vol til i reach d max ..or do that & follow with a 2-3seconds burp at full vol ??? ...... |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10170 Registered: Jun-04 | Do that and follow with a 2-3 second burp. Giving the voice coils time to cool as well. But dont go past the point of volume on your headunit where you set the amplifier gain with the dmm so you can avoid clipping. Like ive said before some clipping can help your score but id rather not have any and have my sub last longer and make it up with research. |
Platinum Member Username: Rovin1 15 = 149.5 DBsTrinidad & T... Post Number: 14101 Registered: Jul-05 | well u see im using a soundstream 5x0 with its 10v preout as a line driver for my orion 2500d so i use no gains , even for spl ... i test pretty much like how i said above but that 30seconds goes so fast that d coils may not really get much time to cool for burp ... in my limted experience i dont think d burp improve d score ...so it looks like carying up d vol gradually is what does it for me ...but then im still new to spl testing ... |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10176 Registered: Jun-04 | Ok now I see. Do me a favor and get your dmm out and check the voltage at the amp at the volume you burp at using the test tone that is loudest for you with the subwoofer disconnected. Then take that reading and find out how much power your giving your sub with a voltage calculator. If you want this to be as accurate as possible do it with your headunits bass settings and such where you normally have them set for a burp. Changing the settings changes the readings from what im told and that makes sense to me. The line driver voltage shouldnt be set higher than your amp can accept most amps arent rated for more than 8 volts I think. Once you do this well find out how much power the sub is actually getting at your current score. From what I saw burping higher than where your amps frequecy was set at with the dmm will result in less power being produced and lower than where your frequency was will produce more power. Im not sure if your saying you do sweeps but dont if you are. When you test they run too long and heat up the coils and they change the voltage. I like to do single hz frequencies one at a time with plenty of time for the coils to cool and the charging to catch up if it needs to. http://www.caraudio911.com/tutorials/GainSet/voltage.htm |
Platinum Member Username: Rovin1 15 = 149.5 DBsTrinidad & T... Post Number: 14102 Registered: Jul-05 | wow that sounds like brain surgery ... ... |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10181 Registered: Jun-04 | I take it your not going to do it? ps....im going in for surgery tomorrow to have my tonsils removed and such to fix my sleep apnea so I wont be on for a while probably. |
Platinum Member Username: Rovin1 15 = 149.5 DBsTrinidad & T... Post Number: 14108 Registered: Jul-05 | i will do it right as i get more into it good luck on ur surgery man ... |
Gold Member Username: RedlinerWilmington, Ma Post Number: 4470 Registered: Jun-05 | goodluck sean hey guys been a while sry been busy with work and getting rdy for school lol paul sounds like work has been fun for you hope its all worked out. or is getting better chad time to quit smoking buddy there like 650 a pack up here sure there more down in LA. anyone watching the olympics cause i have all day at the bar its been so slow ive just been watching them lol |
Diamond Member Username: BestmankindPost Number: 22126 Registered: Oct-05 | good luck sean. charlie i know i need to quit. lol. btw charlie you kinda look like michael phelps. |
Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 17806 Registered: Jun-06 | Yeah I was thinking that too. |
Gold Member Username: RedlinerWilmington, Ma Post Number: 4471 Registered: Jun-05 | lol its funny u say that we have been making fun of my brother saying the same exact thing. so i can accept that lol. chad u look like the china gymnast's i mean the womens lol jk man |
Gold Member Username: Naledge503Portland, Or Post Number: 4135 Registered: Jun-06 | I got the sdc2.5's installed. I am very impressed so far. I will be able to give a good review after they loosen up a little...they are very stiff right now. Pics of them installed if any of you are interested. http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20327 |
Diamond Member Username: BestmankindPost Number: 22129 Registered: Oct-05 | well i ain't interested but i'll look anyways jesse. lol |
Platinum Member Username: Rovin1 15 = 149.5 DBsTrinidad & T... Post Number: 14110 Registered: Jul-05 | looking good jesse how far it d box from d tailgate ? sup charlie , paul & chad ... |
Gold Member Username: Naledge503Portland, Or Post Number: 4136 Registered: Jun-06 | Chad, you know you couldnt resist looking at the awesomeness that Is Jesse D's substage. ;) Thanks Rovin. Its 8.5". Guys, I am really happy that I went with 2 12's ported. Less weight, less space taken up and less power...and yet louder. I loved the Q's dont get me wrong and its still my favorite sounding sub but the sdc2.5's are loud as sh!t and have some very decent SQ. They play pretty damn accurate too. I cant get my rearview mirror to stay up in place anymore....I could with the Q's...just an example. |
Gold Member Username: Naledge503Portland, Or Post Number: 4137 Registered: Jun-06 | Just to add to the above....Ever since I got rid of the old sd2.5's that I had about 2 years ago, I have always wanted to go back and use them again. I have contemplated it numerous times. I'm glad I did. 1 more thing....gotta love the Integra hatchback, it helps ALOT in getting loud I'm sure. |
Diamond Member Username: BestmankindPost Number: 22135 Registered: Oct-05 | nice. the box does look good. |
Gold Member Username: RedlinerWilmington, Ma Post Number: 4473 Registered: Jun-05 | wats up rovin havent talked to you in 4ever do u ever go on aim anymore |
Platinum Member Username: Rovin1 15 = 149.5 DBsTrinidad & T... Post Number: 14111 Registered: Jul-05 | naw i dont go on aim anymore been a looooooooong time ...think my interest in that died a while ago jesse d acoustics of a hatchback is super sweet - even a shiddy sub & box sounds good in it .... |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10184 Registered: Jun-04 | Well guys I seem to be healing up from my surgery pretty well so hopefully by wed. I will be almost 100%. |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10185 Registered: Jun-04 | Rovin....As far as my post about the dmm let me know what kind of power your sub was getting to score the 149.5 - 149.8 db. Jesse....Im glad you like the sdc 2.5's sounds like they slam. I cant wait to see if my 144 to 145 db estimation is correct. |
Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 17824 Registered: Jun-06 | Good to hear about the tonsils Sean. I thought that was a procedure usually done younger in life. Like teenage years. Then again, I'm 36 and I still have mine. |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10192 Registered: Jun-04 | Yeah I heard others say you still have them as well. So it must be a pretty routine thing for people to have them removed for one reason or the other. Im 36 too and the tonsils were removed as well as some skin in my throat to correct a sleep apnea condition because apparently that area was believed to be causing me an obstruction in my breathing while sleeping and the ent is hoping this will cure the sleep apnea if not I might need other surgeries. My throat is still sore and I have a very limited choice of foods. Im on liquid oxy codone for the pain. Ps....Thanks for the well wishes with my surgery guys |
Gold Member Username: Naledge503Portland, Or Post Number: 4138 Registered: Jun-06 | "jesse d acoustics of a hatchback is super sweet - even a shiddy sub & box sounds good in it ...." So youre saying that I have a sh!tty sub and box? lol j/k "Jesse....Im glad you like the sdc 2.5's sounds like they slam. I cant wait to see if my 144 to 145 db estimation is correct." I was unable to make it to the comp. We ended up going camping with some family. I'll have to make it to the Oct show. Glad to hear you are doing well sean. |
Platinum Member Username: Rovin1 15 = 149.5 DBsTrinidad & T... Post Number: 14112 Registered: Jul-05 | ^^^naw man u know thats not what i meant ... glad it went good for u sean - im using my orion 2500d with still no ho alt when i did that score , 1 d34 in front & 1 d31 optima in d trunk ...recently added a 2nd d31 in d trunk too new spl box went in today - will meter it tomorrow ...tuned 51hz yet i played a few songs at moderate vol & it wasnt bad at all ... |
Platinum Member Username: Nyyfan1315 Mag USA Post Number: 10202 Registered: Jul-06 | Good to hear your doing good Sean. Get my paycheck tomorrow guys, then only one more paycheck until new amps |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10207 Registered: Jun-04 | Yeah Yanks Fan I still have some pain but things are improving day by day. It looks like my prediction for near 100% by wed is wrong but im thinking the full 2 weeks and I should be almost there. Next wed. will be two weeks since the surgery. |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10208 Registered: Jun-04 | Rovin Im looking forward to those termlab results. |
Platinum Member Username: Rovin1 15 = 149.5 DBsTrinidad & T... Post Number: 14114 Registered: Jul-05 | well i made it about .25cuft smaller & things went totally opposite in that i only managed a 144 when i faced it 4ward got a 145 so back 2 d drawing board with a new bigger cuft box ... |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10217 Registered: Jun-04 | So this box was sub up port back right? So if you went forward and got 1 db more with the same box that would be sub forward port up am I right? only changing to .25 cubic feet less and you lost 4.5 db thats a lot. Did your positioning change from how your 149.5 box. Also did you do anything to your port compared to the 149.5 box? |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10218 Registered: Jun-04 | Hey I also got a pc someone had set out for trash that had a note on it that said it had a virus or something wrong with it. Its a 733 with 64 megs or ram and a 20 gig hard drive. So I decided to scrub the drive and install linux on it so the pc should be ok. Its a compact case too. Ill take a free pc. |
Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 17845 Registered: Jun-06 | I would too. Their loss is your gain. Been busy fellars. Settled/decided on a used fifth wheel camper. Great shape. I couldn't pass her up. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/off-topic/504364.html Now Paul is poor lol. Well not so much lol but more like.... "I hope my company doesn't close the doors". I'm crazy like that. I really am. I take the leap when ppl say not to. I'll spend some time/money on it and enjoy doing so. It's a man thing. You guys understand. |
Platinum Member Username: Rovin1 15 = 149.5 DBsTrinidad & T... Post Number: 14115 Registered: Jul-05 | i need 2 check back my original box but i think it was about .25-.4 cuft bigger yes sub up port back , then sub still up port 4ward next wk i will do a new box , about .5cuft bigger than my original ....leaving back wall screwed but not glued so i can trim it if need be .... |
Platinum Member Username: Nyyfan1315 Mag USA Post Number: 10217 Registered: Jul-06 | That is sweet Paul. I used to go camping all the time when I was younger but then came soccer everyday and camping went out the window. Used to love it. |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10227 Registered: Jun-04 | Rovin....hmm sub up port forward got louder not what I would have expected. So the 149.5 box was sub forward port back right? If so does the sub have pretty much a clear path to the front of vehicle? In other words does the rear seat fold out of the way of the sub firing forward? |
Platinum Member Username: Rovin1 15 = 149.5 DBsTrinidad & T... Post Number: 14120 Registered: Jul-05 | the 149.5 box was sub front ports front too yep my rear seat folds down & no obstruction in front it ...also noticed a burp scores higher than a raising vol to d max method ...at least in my ride ... |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10231 Registered: Jun-04 | Well if your max spl was set to max volume before then im betting your amp gain was not set to the ideal position for the best possible spl with whatever box you used before this one. But after reading your post again I think your saying setting your volume where you want it right away yeilds better results than rolling it. I believe that because you have the right electrical support for it. Are you saying you had to take your volume to max to get the most spl before? Also was your 149.5 box sub front port front (port across the bottom or what slot port style)? We can communicate through email or through aim if you like if you want to keep this stuff secret. In case others find this section down the road. I was part right in speculation about your vehicle layout but even though you said sub front port front was best I thought you were going to say another setup was. |
Platinum Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 10271 Registered: Jun-04 | Paul if that guy doesnt want the wire for 20 shipped ill take it. |
Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 17882 Registered: Jun-06 | Sure. It's Raptor wire remember that so it's not as flexible as a wet noodle but it will get the job done. It's also why I sell it so cheap. You can have one anyway seeing as I have at least five of them lying around. |