Archive through August 15, 2005
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Unregistered guest | Decisions, decisions. I've read a number of reviews and I'm leaning towards the D70. Is the Nikon better than the Rebel? Any comments, suggestions, concerns would be GREATLY appreciated. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 1094 Registered: Dec-03 | I have compared the 2 and I stuck with the Nikon. Although, I have been a Nikon user for some 23 years. I have an F1, F3, F5, N60, Pronea and then the D70. I loved the Canon's total automation, seems like a very good idea if you like that sort of thing. It's lack of user friendly controls and intuitive layout bugged me. However, once you start learning the D70, you will start fiddling with the controls and start experimenting with various exposure controls and such. When this happens you will love the absolute control you can have with the Nikon D70. check out this link http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d70flash.htm#vsRebel http://www.bythom.com/300D.htm http://www.bythom.com/D70REVIEW.HTM all are excellent reads, but like myself, they also have a slant towards Nikon products. The question is, what is your level of photographic experience and have you had any experience with SLRs? What type of shooting will you be doing? Maybe we can discuss this further...  cheers |
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sooze Unregistered guest | Bernie - thanks (sorry it took so long to get back - vacation...) I'll be using it for work related events - award ceremonies, picnics, seminars, etc. I'll also be using it for a class I'm taking in photojournalism and my daughters volleyball games. I have experience w/ point and shoot cameras - SLR & Digital. I've used manual SLR's but with alot of luck my pictures turned out... I know enough about film speeds to be dangerous. I DO need a class in basic photography... Work is paying for the camera, so I figured top of the line. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 1101 Registered: Dec-03 | I guess that answers that Go with the Nikon then, if you are going to take any photography classes you'll want a lot of control. If work is paying, why not consider Nikon D2?? Let me know what you end up getting. cheers |
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sooze Unregistered guest | Thanks Berny. I ended up going w/ the D-70 - and LOVE IT! I really do need that photography class now. seems a waste to use it in auto mode all the time. Question - where can I get good info on explaining about lenses? I have no clue on the difference between a 20mm- 70mm lense vs a 70 - 200 vs a 70 - 300.... Susan |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 1167 Registered: Dec-03 | Susan, The good thing about digital photography is that you can experiment a lot and not worry about wasting film. You can compose, take wild shots and basically shoot anything you want at any setting you'd like and not waste any film. Did you you get the kit lens that went with the outfit? That is one of the most versatile lens I've ever used. Try this link. http://www.photo.net/making-photographs/lens |
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Benne Unregistered guest | hey im getting into photography, im mostly taking natural pictures, sunsets/ trees, etc... im wondering if the d70 would work out well in that situation |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 1216 Registered: Dec-03 | absolutely. Have you any photography experience? |
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benne Unregistered guest | no but, i am in high school and i've taking a few pics before, i think im a natural, but maybe all beginners think that, |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 1232 Registered: Dec-03 | We all did, it's your work that will judge your talent. So go out there and shoot! cheers |
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benne Unregistered guest | .... don't have the camera yet, :P want one badly, i think its a great career to get into, i was in michigan on the upper peninsula a couple weeks ago and i swore if i had a d70 i could make 100$ a pic easily, those sunsets where amazing right on the big lake :P |
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benne Unregistered guest | reply please!!!!!!!!!! I WANNA TALK! LOL |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 1243 Registered: Dec-03 | just remember, it's your eye and penchant for conveying feeling through pictures that will show your talent and not the camera. |
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benne Unregistered guest | thanks :P how do people take pictures of lightning? i don't get it |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 1276 Registered: Dec-03 | You use long or timed exposures when taking pictures of lightning. Focus your camera in one portion of a lightning prone sky, set your camera on a tripod and open the shutter for about 10 or so minutes. |
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Benne Unregistered guest | wow.i always figured they had like a super huge long roll in like a box like machine gunners have for bullets :D but i guess not |
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New member Username: KrplunPost Number: 1 Registered: Sep-04 | I was told that the lenses for the Nikon D70 are not as expensive as the Canon rebels lenses due to the fact that the motor is not in the lense in the Canon Is this true? If the cameras are similar, then this fact might help me decide which one..unless there is something else that would make one a better buy than another. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 1517 Registered: Dec-03 | All original Nikon AND Canon lenses are expensive. What type of experience do you have as a photographer and what type of shooting are you going to do? If you are the point and shoot type person then you should go with the Canon. If you want creative control then Nikon. |
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New member Username: Carabiniero8Post Number: 1 Registered: Dec-04 | I am trying to decide between the Rebel and the D70. I am an amature and this will be my first digital camera. I am mostly into nature/landsacpe photography, buildings/streets, and have recently began experimenting with photomicrography (hooking the camera up to a microscope and taking pics of microorganisms). I was wondering if anyone had any comments on which camera would be better suited (esp. for photomicrography, I remember reading somewhere that the D70 was not the better choice when it comes to photographing fabrics/textures, would that also apply to microscopic images?). Also, what kind of software is used to import/fiddle with images of a D70? Photoshop CS, Photoshop Elements 3? Does this software have to be purchased separately? Is it expensive? Thank you! Elena |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 2280 Registered: Dec-03 | The digital Rebel is still amateur class comapred to the D70. But as far as microphotography, both companies make one of the best lenses around. You are misinformed on photographing fabrics/textures. It is all in the lens. The D70 comes with software to fiddle around with the images, but the best way to do things of that nature is Photoshop CS. If you don't do any major photoshop work, photoelements will suit you just fine. |
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New member Username: Carabiniero8Post Number: 2 Registered: Dec-04 | thanks. which lense would you recommend that i go with? nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 seems to be the most versatile. would it also work well for microphotography? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 2287 Registered: Dec-03 | Elena, Before we go any further, please realize that microphotography or microscopy is a specialized field and would take some specialized adaptors for connecting to a microscope. The D70 nor the Digital Rebel do not yet have support for microscopy. But they do have lenses that are for macrophotography or very close up work short of using a microscope. The 18-70 mm is a great general purpose lens but it will not do the work of a nice 60mm f/2.8D AF Micro-Nikkor that can focus as close as 8 inches or 105mm f/2.8D AF Micro-Nikkor that can focus to about a foot. Nikon used to have micrsocope adapters for the Nikon coolpix line but I Believe it was discontinued, not a very good seller. Labs are using the Nikon specialty cameras for work like those. But you may still be able to find them. |
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Unregistered guest | I just bought the D70 and saw your note about the Nikon software that comes with the camera. Is it necessary to use the proprietary software or can other software be used to download the images without loss of data? I've used Adobe Album and Elements to organize and do some light editing on photos taken with non-SLR digitals. I'll be taking a digital photo class this spring and would just as soon stick with the software I've been using for the time being. Thanks in advance! |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 2291 Registered: Dec-03 | TEB, The proprietary software is not a must, but you'll need it if you are connecting the camera directly to the pc. If not you can just transfer the pictures using the compact flash card and use Adobe to organize them. I believe the Nikon software is very easy to use in conjunction with Adobe. I use Photoshop elements myself and Photoshop CS and it really helps with the workflow. The basic function of the software, at least the way I use it, is to automatically transfer all the images and all the information about those images to a file automatically generated by the software. The files are downloaded in order so it is a lot easier to organize. All the other editing is done via Photoshop CS. |
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TEB Unregistered guest | Thanks Berny. Looks like Adobe Album does the same thing and may have a few more organizational benefits so I'll stick with it. |
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New member Username: Ryan1288Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-05 | I'm another high school student and will be taking many pictures of sports, concerts and moving people. Comparing the D70, 20D, 10D, and Rebel (assuming money is not the biggest factor), it seams as if the only camera able to capture fast moving people is the 20D. Also, the 10D looks like it is outdated and not worth the money when you can buy the 20D or Rebel. is this true? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 2630 Registered: Dec-03 | Don't even put the Rebel and 10D in the same boat, they don't belong there. It is a toss between the D70 and 20D. Let me guess, you are impressed with the megapixel, right? One is 6 and the other is 8...in reality that is only a 15% difference and nothing you can detect. So, get the megapixel numbers out of your head. Choosing between the 2 cameras would be a matter of what you want to do and the type of shooting that you will be doing as they are both equally capable. And the picture quality is the same, I've used both and I kept the D70. It is light, fast and accepts all my other Nikon lenses. There are a few things that I like about the Canon 20D, it focuses really fast and the ISO setting of 100. And where did you get the idea that the 20D is the only camera capable of capturing fast motion (or people). You really need to take some basic photography. All these cameras can capture fast moving people, even the Rebel. What level of experience do you have in SLR? |
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New member Username: Ryan1288Post Number: 2 Registered: Jan-05 | I've used the Rebel for about a year and a half with mostly a Canon EF 70-200mm lens until a coworker dropped the camera and ruined it. I'm also ready to move on from the Rebel and find a camera with faster shutter speeds. I know about megapixels, I won't be printing pictures larger than 11X7, so that won't matter. What I ment about the 20D is its shutter speed is almost twice as fast as the D70, which is a very attractive feature to me. Narrowing the choices down to the Canon 20D and Nikon D70, I'm taking pictures in low light situations like indoor concerts, and then bright outdoor sporting events. Also, I want to use the least amount of lenses possible (as I assume anyone does.)Which way do you reccomend I sway? Thanks for your advice. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 2634 Registered: Dec-03 | Both camera have the same shutter speeds. The Canon has a gimmicked 1/3200, but still a feature I find useless, and I've been using an SLR for more than 20 years. Where did you get the idea about their shutter speeds? The Rebel has fast shutter speeds as well and actually all these cameras have the same shutter speeds. Again, another bad basis of purchase (shutter speeds), it shouldn't even be a factor. Have you considered the flash sync speed of the Canon 20D is on at 1/250 and the D70 is faster than that at 1/500. Now, this feature is very important when it comes to the type of shooting that you plan on doing. For low light situations, all these cameras, even the Rebel can take pictures in low light. You should know this if you've used the Rebel for about a year and a half. You just need the proper lens with the right aperture setting, shutter speed and ISO setting. If you will be lugging this camera around I suggest you use the lighter D70, it has better user friendly features and with the Canon costing almost $500 more, the choice is clear. You will soon appreciate the lighter weight of the camera because the lenses you will be using are going to be twice as heavy. Both Canon and Nikon have superb lenses and both are very expensive, so again it boils down to the body. The lenses make the camera. If you want to take indoor low light shots, I use a Nikon 70-200mm AF-S VR 2.8. It is also excellent for outdoor sports, the zoom is excellent with minimal light fall off at the long end. This lens however weighs a good 2 pounds and same goes for the Canon equivalent so the lighter body of the D70 will be advantageous. This can work as your all around lens. Another advice I would give is to take a photography class, it will really help you use the camera to your advantage. |
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Unregistered guest | Yea, I'm another High School Student. I have had many digital point-and-shoot cameras and I've have fallen in love with Photography. I mainly do web design work for bands and have started taking promo shots. After doing all my research and handling all the cameras, I have chosen the Nikon D70. I'm saving up for it now, but that is definatly what I'm buying. Some people have told me to get the cameras that can handle Verticle Grip, But honestly I dont think I absolutly need that. I'll be using the cameras at Live concerts and Sports, much like Ryan Brown, but over all I believe that the Nikon D70 is the way to go. But the question I have is what's wrong with the Canon Rebel that I keep hearing bad things about. Anyways, Thanks, Keith Vlk {Site Coming Soon} |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 2647 Registered: Dec-03 | If you like the Canon Rebel, there really is nothing bad about it. Its just that the D70 has rendered it obsolete. And the Canon 20D did the same thing for the Rebel. There is a vertical grip for the D70. |
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Keith vlk Unregistered guest | There is??? Ok than, That right there has made me even happier...Do you know how much the Verticle Grip Costs?? Thanks for the info Berny. Thanks Always, Keith Vlk |
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Keith vlk Unregistered guest | There is??? Ok than, That right there has made me even happier...Do you know how much the Verticle Grip Costs?? Thanks for the info Berny. Thanks Always, Keith Vlk |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 2649 Registered: Dec-03 | Check out harbortronics.com It is a custom made grip and should cost around $200. |
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New member Username: Ryan1288Post Number: 3 Registered: Jan-05 | Hey Keith, out of curiousity, how did you get your job taking pictures at the concerts? I got mine through a lot of interviews taking them for a local newspaper, did you do the same? |
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Keith Vlk Unregistered guest | I am heavily involved with music. I play guitar and make websites for bands. My friend asked me to take pics for his band. And that just led to me taking pics for more and more bands out here in Chicago. Most of my work is for websites, promotion pics, and flyers. I'm in the middle of trying to get some of my pics into Alternative Press (AP) magazine. But yea, how about you? How old are you? Send me an email sometime: alwayssecondbest71@yahoo.com or talk to me on AOL: VLKers7171 |
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Jon T Unregistered guest | Hi Berny, After reading your experience of D70 above, I just wondered what your thoughts were on fact that nearly all other reviews I have read on the internet comparing D70 vs 300D state that a bad point of the D70 is that pictures often need post processing to get to same standard as the 300D, which are 99% always fantastic straight from the camera. They state that D70 pictures need to really all be taken in RAW and then post processed to get good results ... which an amateur, wanna-be professional, photographer like myelf initially gets nervous about. Any words of encouragement you can provide, having used both 300D and D70? This is only point that puts me off buying the D70 straight away, seeing that's the whole point of the camera i.e. to get fantastic photos. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 2709 Registered: Dec-03 | More than likely, those reviews are done by folks that love their Canon 300D. You will get the same biased report from the people that love their Nikon D70. RAW and Post processing...pshaw, BS, boulderdash, poppycock, etc!!! Both cameras take great pictures straight from the camera (JPEG or RAW), period. If that is not the case, you will be able to find the Nikon D70 languishing on the store shelves and the 300D a little too hard to find. The 300D has been out for quite sometime so the premium is going down. If I had a bunch of Canon lenses I'll keep the one i used to have. But the Nikon D70 just upped the ante and just made the 300D obsolete(at least in my point of view). D70 - Newer technology, 1/500 flash sync(canon has 1/250) I find this very important and you will too, given time. Better white balance tweaking, canon was just too automatic. Higher frame rate. More intuitive controls...if you are a canon user, you will be used to the controls. RAW and Post Processing is not a must, it just provides better control and manipulation if you plan on applying post processing effects. The concern here should be what type of lenses do you currently have? If you have Canon lenses, stick with canon, but go with the 10D or the 20D and forget the 300D altogether. If you are starting from scratch, get a Nikon. And don't worry about the lenses...both brands are VERY expensive.LOL! |
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Jon T Unregistered guest | Thanks Berny for your honesty, all makes sense - I am starting out from scratch and the current £100 cashback offer here in UK now makes the D70 a no brainer imho :-) D70 cash back offer... http://www.nikon.co.uk/d70cashback/ fyi, I have always been a fan of the Canon consumer models of digital cameras - I currently have a PowerShot S30 which I am very pleased with - but I am now looking to move into Digital SLR arena and find I have no real reson to stick with Canon as I will need to buy lenses from scratch anyway. Thanks again. |
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www.kameradigital.net Unregistered guest | QUOTE : More than likely, those reviews are done by folks that love their Canon 300D. You will get the same biased report from the people that love their Nikon D70. Because Berny is a D70 user, I could understand this biased review On the advantage of D70, the Sync Speed is really a plus. you can shot high speed fotography using flash. And another thing, the D70 has better kit lens (although 100$ more than the Canon's) Lastly, D70 is more sensitive for IR (infra red) photography The one thing that is bad about D70 is the image quality. AND THAT'S WHAT REALLY MATTERS MOST. ISO 400 is grainy, on par with ISO 200 on 300D This is due to inferior sensor, in this case, current CCD technology produces images that are grainy, inferior white ballance. ISO 1600 on 20D is on par with ISO 400 on D70. On the lens part, yes Nikkor lens are abundant. and unarguablt they are good. But have you noticed that most of sport photographer prefers Canon's. Why? Autofocus Canon Lenses have AF motors on their Lenses, not in the camera body like D70. Thus the AF on Canon is a lot faster, more accurate. Like to judge their image quality? Just look at this picts for comparison. You'll get the idea 300D : http://img86.exs.cx/img86/6412/300d24am.jpg D70 : http://img96.exs.cx/img96/6156/d706eu.jpg Pictures taken with KIT lenses. uses on board flash. Time of shot varied 10 minute. |
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www.kameradigital.net Unregistered guest | QUOTE : More than likely, those reviews are done by folks that love their Canon 300D. You will get the same biased report from the people that love their Nikon D70. Because Berny is a NIKON user, I could understand this biased review On the advantage of D70, the Sync Speed is really a plus. you can shot high speed fotography using flash. And another thing, the D70 has better kit lens (although 100$ more than the Canon's) Lastly, D70 is more sensitive for IR (infra red) photography The one thing that is bad about D70 is the image quality. AND THAT'S WHAT REALLY MATTERS MOST. ISO 400 is grainy, on par with ISO 800 on 300D This is due to inferior sensor, in this case, current CCD technology produces images that are grainy, inferior white ballance. ISO 1600 on 20D is on par with ISO 400 on D70. On the lens part, yes Nikkor lens are abundant. and unarguablt they are good. But have you noticed that most of sport photographer prefers Canon's. Why? Autofocus Canon Lenses have AF motors on their Lenses, not in the camera body like D70. Thus the AF on Canon is a lot faster, more accurate. Like to judge their image quality? Just look at this picts for comparison. You'll get the idea 300D : http://img86.exs.cx/img86/6412/300d24am.jpg D70 : http://img96.exs.cx/img96/6156/d706eu.jpg Pictures taken with KIT lenses. uses on board flash. Time of shot varied 10 minute. |
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Anonymous | Check that EXIF. 300D image is ambient light, D70 is flash. |
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New member Username: FlphotographerPost Number: 1 Registered: May-05 | Perhaps, KameraDigital.net, you should post pictures that compare similar images, and not imply that one camera produces crappy image quality because you chose to shoot the image with completely different settings. IF you had shot the D70 using natural light as you did with the 300D, you would have a better comparison. Next time hide your tracks by erasing EXIF data. I can clearly see you used direct on board flash in the D70 shot and a completely different natural light setup with the 300D. Unfortunately, your argument that the D70 produces inferior image quality is utterly pointless and clearly an incorrect assumption. I use D70 camera bodies (multiples) in my business every single day, and the camera is producing great results. And if I don't like what it's producing, I can simply load a custom tone curve and dictate the image style I want from the camera. Try that with a 300D. To the OP - the Nikon 20D and the D70 are both remarkable cameras for the price, and you would do well with either one as long as you use proper technique, use decent glass, and get to know the camera intimately. Just enjoy the shooting regardless of which camera you purchase. |
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nathaniel Unregistered guest | Nikon D70 vs Canon 20d I just bought a D70 and am thinking about exchanging it for the canon 20D. The camera will be used mainly for basketball action shots inside a gym with low lighting. I like that the 20D takes 5 frames per second compared with the D70's 3 frames per second. However, the Canon 20D flash sync speed is only 1/250 compared to D70's 1/500. Which is more important? For those of you using the D70, do you use them for sports action shots, if so, are you happy with the results of 3 frames per second. Do you take shots indoors or outdoors. I just realized that the salesman only takes outdoor sports shots. Also, what's that advantage of CMOS technology? I'm also concerned that D70 is not as new as the 20D. Basically, if price was not an issue and you plan on using it mainly for sports action shots, which is recommended? Thanks! |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3014 Registered: Dec-03 | For sport action shots, I would recommend the Nikon D2X or D1Hs, or the Canon EOS 1d II You did say price is not an issue! But if choosing between the D70 and 20D, I would go with the Canon 20D for action shooting. I am happy with the 3 frames per second on my D70 and use it most of the time, however sports shooting is not my preferred area. My D2X is really fast but it is heavy, but the 5 and 8 frames per second and lightning quick autofocus is really something else. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3015 Registered: Dec-03 | oops, make that Nikon D2Hs. |
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nathaniel Unregistered guest | Thanks Berny. I just called to inquire about exchanging it. It'll be no problem to exchange, however, the 20D is still not in stock. Thanks Again!!!! |
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Vlk Unregistered guest | I use my d70 for live shots of bands in lowlight...I get some good action shots...But the 20D could do somewhat better maybe...I just like nikon better than canon |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3028 Registered: Dec-03 | Keith, Go to the Nikon usa website, the Nikon D70 has a new firmware update. Ver.2.0 Changes the whole menu system in the D70 and improves the AF areas. http://support.nikontech.com/cgi-bin/nikonusa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqi d=13580&p_created=1116261036&p_sid=YyFJwCFh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9 JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD04JnBfcHJvZHM9MTksNTYmcF9jYXRzPTE4NiZwX3B2PTIuNTYm cF9jdj0xLjE4NiZwX3BhZ2U9MQ**&p_li=&p_topview=1 |
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Bronze Member Username: Vlkers7171Downers Grove, Illinois Usa Post Number: 21 Registered: Feb-05 | it came out?? I was just about to post and ask when the firmware update was gonna be out. Thank Berny....Keith VLK |
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New member Username: DubartimusNewport, RI United States Post Number: 1 Registered: May-05 | I bought myself a D70, with the Nikor 18-70DX zoom . I will eventually like to get another lens. You say that the picture is in the lens; I agree. I am replacing a film camera (remeber those?) and IT has a Tameron lens I hate it!!! Should I stick with Nikkor or go with another lens brand like Sigma? I am thinking along the lines of a 70-300mm. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3052 Registered: Dec-03 | I would stick with Nikkor. If you are planning on doing photography for a long time, you will be going through some equipment and a few lenses. There is nothing faster to sell than a nikon lens and for a better price. No one really wants to buy a used Tokina/Tamron/Sigma. i just have better experience with them. And don't even buy into some BS that companies like Tamron or Sigma make lenses for Nikon. |
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Unregistered guest | Following up on Nathaniel's question. I'm a novice to the world of SLRs and am buying my first SLR after many P&Ss. Unfortunately money IS a big object so I'm really hoping to get the best value so I've been drawn to the D70 and Canon Rebel Series. There's so much pro and con literature available its hard to discern what's what in actuality. I too shoot largely gym lighting, action indoor basketball/volleyball photos. I don't need magazine worthy shots but good, clear photos are my hope (just not blurry would be nice). You mentioned that you would choose the Canon D20, does this mean the D70 and Rebels would fall short of low light, indoor action shots all together? Also do you have any lenses suggestions? I'm planning on taking a photography class this summer but wanted to experiment a bit and get a little comfortable with the SLR before the class. Any and all help would be greatly, greatly appreciated. Thanks much! |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3059 Registered: Dec-03 | The Rebel will fall out of contention, I just don't find at a capable camera. The D70 and Canon 20 are both capable of low light shooting. It really depends on your ISO setting and the lens that you are using. My preference for the Canon 20D is its capacity for shooting sports. It focuses faster than the D70 but picture quality wise, I think they are the same. The Canon 20D is more expensive but, like I said if money is no object get the 20D, but if it is really no obhect, get the Nikon D2X. The lenses will b the meat of your system and as such they will cost your the most amount of money. The Nikon and Canon are alost equal in this area and that they are also both expensive. For the lenses, you really should state a budget. But for the type of shooting that you want, I would recommend the Nikon 70-200 f2.8 AF-S VR. It has a constant aperture setting of 2.8 throughout its entire focal length, which means you can take photos in low light while zooming in on your subject. This one will set you back about $1500-$1700 with $150 rebate. I use this for my cameras and it is one of the best lenses I have ever seen. Tack sharp and very versatile. For the same sharpness but without the Vibration Reduction(you should read more about this), you may want to try and get a hold of the Nikon 80-200 f/2.8. This is the lens made before they Nikon offered the 70-200. You can still get this for about $1000-$1200. They are still flying off the shelves and this lens has been out since the 80's and an earlier version, which still no slouch, are still selling for a premium price on the used market. So, Cindi, what is your budget? |
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Unregistered guest | Thanks Berny, I really appreciate the help. And WOW! I was actually hoping to enter the SLR world very modestly and my whole budget was only between $1000-1200, that's how I came to look at the D70 and Canon Rebel kits, but now it sounds like its the lenses that's also the vital piece and they're as much as the cameras. Do you have any thoughts regarding my budget range for a camera and lens or a camera and its kit for even modest indoor sports photos, or is D20 the real solid choice for clear indoor sports shots? I am able to get close court side if that makes any difference, however they don't allow flash, so I know that adds to the problem. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3060 Registered: Dec-03 | The Canon 20D will really set you back as it is more expensive than the D70. However, for around $1000, your safest bet will be the Nikon D70. For that price you should be able to get the camera body and the 18-70mm kit lens. so after that all you need to worry about is the memory card. You can increase the ISO settings to compensate for the low light levels and no flash parameters in the court. I've taken some low light shots with the D70 and they came out really well. check out this comparison http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/20dd70.htm |
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Unregistered guest | Thanks again for all the helpful info. I'm off to get the D70. Yah! Its seems like the perfect starting point for my jump into the SLR world. Really appreciate all the assistance. |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 139 Registered: Sep-04 | The lenses are the most important part of your gear. One comment that has been made over on the photography forum I hang out at is the bodies will come & go, but your good lenses will stick around for a while. The better lenses will cost MORE than the bodies. After much deliberating I went with the 20D and plan to spend about $4500 or so in the end on lenses (yes, I will be getting the famed Canon "L" glass for most of them). If you haven't used an SLR before, you might want to look around for a good book on the subject, like maybe the one at www.bythom.com |
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praveen Unregistered guest | Why is no one talking about the 350D. I thought it had a much better processor and a much better cmos sensor. by the way Berny, cmos is a much better thing to have than a ccd sensor |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3063 Registered: Dec-03 | Because the 20D is a much better camera. I'm glad that you like the cmos, praveen, more power to you! I'm sure it is better, but I just like to take pictures and not worry about which sensor is better. i've been using Nikon cameras for a long time and I have alot of Nikon equipment, so changing bodies is really not in the picture, it doesn't matter which sensor is better is yours or any body else's eyes. When I sell a picture, my clients don't ask which sensor or camera took the picture. What about your clients? Do you? They really can't tell if the photograph was taken by a Canon EOS 1D mk2 or a Nikon d2x. |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 142 Registered: Sep-04 | In truth the sensor technology is about equal with some minor advantages to each (CMOS is a bit better on power consumption, CCD is supposed to be better with noise). In truth the glass you put in front of the sensor has a greater efect on the end image. As for the 350D, if you'll check the original dates, this thread predates the introduction of the 350. |
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Unregistered guest | Hi Berny, You helped me in the past with the SLR dilemma, now I have a camcorder question. I was just given a JVC GR-72 with no software. My computer doesn't recognize the USB connection no matter what I've tried. I'm guessing I have to give up on the freebie, but wanted to check and see if you had any thoughts. Thanks again for any assistance (and I apologize if this is the wrong forum to ask this question) |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3087 Registered: Dec-03 | Cindi, Don't use the USB port as it will not download the movie properly. Use the DVI output of the camera into a firewire(IEEE1394) port of your PC. |
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Unregistered guest | Thanks Bernie, that did indeed fix the problem. Once again, really appreciate all the help. Cindi |
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nosyt Unregistered guest | Berny, great advice you've been giving, I admire your insight. I've been really fascinated with photography for a long time now and i've decided to purchase my own digital camera. It does not have to be an SLR in particular, I just want a camera with a decent amount of function and most importantly, I'm looking for picture quality (sharpness, color, contrast, etc). Keep in mind that I am totally new with digital cameras, so when I say "decent amount of functions" i'd just like to be able to adjust it where I can take great night shots, daylight shots, or anything in between and not suffer from noise, artifacts, and the like. I am commited to learning the camera inside-out if need be. I started out looking at a few consumer cameras (A75), to a little higher (coolpix 5400), and up to the DR and D70. Basically I just browsed the dpreview site samples and was amazed how much better the picture quality could get. Is it possible to purchase a camera like the Coolpix 5400 and buy some decent lens later on and have it shoot photos up to par with a d70? To sum it up, I'm a novice and i'll most likely be using the camera for random photographs whenever i'm out. I'm leaning more towards the DR as of now since I can get it for cheaper than the d70 on Ebay and it seems more user friendly to someone like me. I just hope I dont decide to switch later on or have regrets. Thanks for reading all of my insominatic rambling and thanks in advance if you decide to extend a hand! Cheers. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3094 Registered: Dec-03 | It would be good to know your budget. What is your experience with cameras in general? Have you used SLRs before or did you use mostly instamatic cameras? With digital point and shoot cameras much like the ones you mentioned above, the addition of lenses is possible but can get ridiculously expensive, impractical and not at all that great in quality when you compare it to digital SLRs like the D70 or Rebel. The lenses are basically add-ons that you place on top of the lenses of the camera. So you are stacking multiple lenses which can produce problems all its own. I have seen chromatic aberrations and some vignetting on these stack on lenses. If you want to take just random photographs and really don't want to lug around any big cameras go with the slim digital cameras like the Casio Exilim. But if you want the versatility of a Digital SLR, go with the Nikon D70 or Canon 20D. You won't be disappointed. All these cameras have a decent amount of functions but I find the Digital SLRs a lot simpler to use because I can determine the shot I want as opposed to tryiing to figure out which of the pre-sets to choose on a point and shoot camera. And avoid ebay if you are planning on getting a digital SLR. You are going to need the store support and manufacturer support if you ever have to turn it in for repairs. Do not buy cameras from ebay! Learn all about exposures and how take photographs with a single lens reflex camera. Digital or not, you will be far more satisfied with the control that you have over the photo you are taking than the snapshot. |
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neil_vals Unregistered guest | I need help. between nikon D70 and Canon 20D which one is better for a amateur Digital SLR user? |
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Unregistered guest | I am trying to decide between a nikon d70s and a canon 20D... i take a great deal of low light action shots, predominantly at rock gigs; but also getting into some portrait and architectural shots, especially black and white... i was all geared up to get a nikon d70 but have been told that the 20D may better suit my purpose... opinions? i will probably end up getting either with the standard lens and then also look at investing in a fast aperture lens (probably a 50mm f/1.4 or something) does this lens consideration change which brand i should go with?? |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 163 Registered: Sep-04 | Yes, the 20D will work for you better. It does ISO3200 with an amazingly low noise level. I'm still using the kit lens (18-55 f/3.5-5.6) which is way too slow for the purpose, but I'm constantly amazed at how well the camera deals with the limitations. Shooting RAW I'm able to get away with underexposing a bit & still get usable shots. With the 50/1.4 it should rock; I'm in the process of getting the 50/1.8 Mk I and can't wait to give it a try in low light. Both Nikon and Canon have excellent lenses and will have what you need. In the past I felt Nikkor glass had the edge, but that seems to have vanished, now they are pretty comparable as a system. |
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Anonymous | http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~am264801/ that is a sample of my photos from my digital point-n-shoot. given that it took me a year to figure out how to actually do stuff with my camera, i think i have done ok with it. but my P&S is a 3mp olympus camera and i feel that if i upgrade, it should be to a dSLR. since i will also be graduating soon, i was thinking of asking for one of these. with the d70s and d50 and now the rebel xt(350d) which one would be the best to start off from scratch? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3184 Registered: Dec-03 | Forget the rebel XT. I didn't care too much for it. If you want a Canon get the 20D. If you are going with Nikon, get the D70 over the D50, as the D50 is not as versatile as the D70. |
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pen Unregistered guest | >>Forget the rebel XT. Can you please elabrate on why Rebel XT is not good to compare? I feel Rebel XT is far better than D70. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3185 Registered: Dec-03 | Pen, If you like the Rebel XT then get it, I'm merely stating an opinion based on my experience. If you feel that the Rebel XT is better than the D70 nothing I say will change your mind. |
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calishooter Unregistered guest | Hey there, I've been noticing some of you guys struggling over the "which is better" debate. I'm an advanced amateur that also does some professional work with my D70. I've come to love my humble D70 and have invested in a couple of good lenses. Yes, they are not the best lenses, but I've gotten great results with my Nikkor 24-85 ED, 60mm macro, and 80-400 VR. But I also love my friends Canon 1Ds Mark II, which probably cost 5 times as much as my camera. Funny thing is, sometimes I get better shots than his, and other times he captures the moment better. It's more about what you do with the camera, not what the camera will do for you. Stop worrying about which brand is better and figure out which is right for you. Spend your money on great lenses, which both Canon and Nikon offer. If you want to argue that CMOS is better than a CCD, then go for it. If you get either the 20D or the D70, you'll be getting a great camera. You can take fantastic photos with the XT also. I've seen them firsthand. A great photographer can take amazing photos with the cheapest camera, but throw the most expensive camera in the hands of a beginner and you'll get nothing. |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 174 Registered: Sep-04 | Well said. The Canon/Nikon debate has in large part gotten down to which ergonomics d oyou personally like better and do you have an investment in lense for a particular system yet. In some cases (like myself, and liam) there may be specific requirements that makes one more suitable than the other--low light capability in our case. CMOS and CCD each has their advantages & disadvantages. I've been saying for a while now that everyone has basically figured out the electronics end of it & it's back to who has more experience in making better glass as that is what ultimately will make or break a system. IMHO Nikkor and Canon glass are some of the best commonly available SLR glass out there. |
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Kait Unregistered guest | Just got my Nikkor 70-300mm, Im loving it ;) |
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Adrian Lauterstein Unregistered guest | very impressed with Canon Rebel XT after years with consumer digital cameras like the old Kodak DCS 1.6 MP and the Fuji F700, with the money that I saved over the 20D I bought the more expensive 17-85mm lens instead of the kit. Color is superb, with little or no adjustment. Tests show that image quality between 20D and XT are very close. |
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Anonymous | Canon 300d performs better than nikon d70 at higher ISO(1600)...besides the flash sync of 1/500 dosent matter much for amature or mid range professionals..also tehre is a rainbow effect with d70..attributed to the CCD sensors..i being a amature photograher prefer 300d cause of cost advantage and features listed for 300d serve my purpose..the drive to 350d or 20d for megapixel advantage is rubish...d70 is a faster camera with better lens i guess..but picture quality and noise levels at higher ISOs is still a concern. D50 uses a different sensor to correct some of the problems and perhaps records the least noise under higer ISO settings. |
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Noreen Unregistered guest | I am trying to decide between a Nikon D70 & D50. I primarily photograph my own children and groups of children (teams, classes, parties, etc). I have never moved my seven year old Nikon N70 from the auto setting and could greatly benefit from a photography class. I have a new 70-300 Nikkor G lens and the 28-80 that came with the seven year old N70. Could I get away with purchasing only the body of the DSLR if I only intend to use the camera in its point & shoot mode? Is the built-in flash better on one of these models than the other? Thanks for any advice! |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3260 Registered: Dec-03 | Yes, you can use the old glass on the new Nikons. For your needs I would get the D50 body. The built in flash is really not a factor on any of the models as they are both limited in range and power. If the flash is your concern get a dedicated speedlight like the sb-600 or sb-800. |
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Unregistered guest | Hello Berny, I feel I am ready for a camera upgrade. I've been photographing for 2-3 years now, with my first and only camera a HP Photosmart 735 and I've completely outgrown it. So I've been looking at upgrading to a SLR. First I was looking at three cameras, the Canon 300D, Canon 350D, and the Nikon D70. Then after mass research ruled out he Canon 350D mostly because of size, though having not held the camera myself, from the reading I've done and personal preference, I feel I want something bigger and sturdier. So basically, do you think having close to no experience with an SLR, I'm ready and capable for something as advanced as the D70 coming from a 3.2mp camera with very primitive settings, or should I go for the more user friendly 300D? Which ever camera, I'm the type of person to memorize the user manual, and learn the camera inside out. . . I've held the 300D and had the pleasure of using one, but I thought the camera seemed light and somewhat (for lack of a better word) plasticy' . So I'm definitely leaning towards the Nikon, and I've found some awesome deals with all three of the cameras on ebay from a company selling them brand new, as package deals. So basically I have two Questions. . . 1. Which camera would be better for me? 2. Would the deal on ebay be a smart choice, and are the accessories in the packages decent. Especially the lenses. Ebay link http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-D70S-D70-S-USA-Digital-SLR-Camera-3000-PRO-PKG_W0QQite mZ7535069590QQcategoryZ43456QQcmdZViewItem Whatever advise would be highly appreciated. Thanks a million Berny, -Asa |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3280 Registered: Dec-03 | You have a very tough decision to make. If you prefer the D70, then by all means have fun with your decision and the camera. I doubt that you will have any trouble adapting to a new camera, and it is fun to learn. Just make sure that you have the basics understood so you do not get frustrated. Get a book that deals with apertures, shutter speed and proper exposure values. Try out this book; Understanding Exposure: How to Shoot Great Photographs with a Film or Digital Camera by Bryan F. Peterson Now as far as your source of camera equipment...I would stay away from ebay no matter how great the deal seem to be. When buying a cmaera such as the D70,it is best to stick with dealers that are authorized by Nikon. You also have to be wary that the product you are using is not gray market...if they are, you will have trouble having any type of warranty work done on the camera. You have to realize that the Nikon D70 is now the best selling Digital SLR on the market, everyone and their cousins are buying the darned thing, so this item will not be heavily discounted by Nikon nor the dealers. Go to a dealer that you can actual see in person and one that is an authorized Nikon seller. Once you get the D70, try out a book by Thom Hogan that deals just with the inner workings of the D70. D70 or the newer D70s will work in the same way except for the cable release. |
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asap Unregistered guest | Ok, so at the moment the D70 is my choice, but now for buying. I live in a very small place, human occupancy around 500, nearest city around is a hour 45 minutes, and with gas prices transportation is a B****. So that is my reasoning for ebay. So as for the deal, there's a Manufacturer Warranty, and it's a company that's selling it, if that makes any difference... But Let's not rule out the option of buying it in person, what would be the price difference comparing it with the eBay deal, since I'll have to buy the lenses and accessories separate? Money is an issue! My budget is around $1300.00. Another thing I like about this deal is that once I get the camera, I won't have to worry about buying anything else. For a while. Thanks for the advice and book links; I'll definitely have to check those out. Thanks again, -Asa |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3285 Registered: Dec-03 | Honestly, i would stay away from that deal. it is not really a good deal at all. That wide angle lens is worthless. The flash that is included will never be used for any decent photographs. It is not iTTL compatible. The lens should already be included with the kit (18-70). The 70-300 lens is worth $69.00 and although a good lens, you need to use it on a bright clear day. The filters included are total crap and will contribute to distortion. The tripod is cheap and worth maybe $15.00. it will not hold your camera very steady and defeats the whole purpose of the tripod to begin with. The mini tripod is only good for a small point and shoot and will not work with your D70. The compact flash card reader is available almost anywhere and you really don't need it if you have the D70 kit. you can connect the camera directly to your computer. The hard case is nice but you will probably just use the camera bag. The lens cleaning kit is a cheap item. And for the memory card... you would probably want to use separate 512 mb cards instead of only 1 high gig card (don't put all your eggs in one basket analogy) And no, that crap included with the deal is not worth $3000 and is not on any professional level. The 18-70 lens will come with the kit and everything else you need to get started except for the memory card, for $1200 with a nice rebate. But those you can get for cheap nowadays. For your budget, would suggest Adorama, B&H or J&R photos. They are reputable dealers and I have dealt with them in the past and have never been duped. For $1300, you could get the kit and a nice memory card. Save some more for your speedlight, the one included in the deal is total crap. |
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asap Unregistered guest | Alright screw that deal then, LOL! I've come up with another couple questions, what's the difference between the Nikon D70 and D70-S? Just an upgrade? What all comes in the standard kit? And as far lenses go is the one included in the kit decent, an all around purpose lense? And what are the prices for other decent lenses? Thanks -Asa |
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asap Unregistered guest | Sorry for all the questions, I know I could probebly go out on the net and find out a lot of them, but I find talking to a person a lot more informative then endless pages on some random website. But thanks again Berny for all your help. -Asa |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3286 Registered: Dec-03 | The D70-s is an upgraded version. It has a bigger LCD screen and a cable release. Everything else is the same. The kit comes with the body, the 18-70mm lens, the software and all the cables. Everything you need to start out except for the memory card. You could visit the nikonusa website and learn more on what comes in the kit. The kit lens is excellent and will suit the average and professional users. Other decent lenses such as the 50mm f/1.8 is also an excellent lens and should cost you about $100US. Another one I would recommend is the 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, and that one should cost around $1400US. The thing with most decent lenses is that it costs more than the camera, but they are worth their price. And believe me, it tends to get really expensive as you get in to photography. My advice would be to get the Nikon D70 or D70-S and the SB-800 Speedlight and a few memory cards. But be very wary of deals that seem too good to be true. There are no deep discounts given for Nikons except for their rebates and stick with authorized dealers, I cannot emphasize that enough. |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 180 Registered: Sep-04 | If I might jump in here. There are good online retailers you could use: B&H, Adorama, Samy's, 17th St Photo, Canoga Camera would be the top of my list. They are all authorized dealers & have B&M stores, mostly in New York, Samy's & Canoga are out here in CA. For lenses, I'm not as familiar with Nikkor glass, but you can go to http://www.photozone.de/active/news/index.jsp for a good ratings database. An older, but well regarded site is http://www.photodo.com/ though it seems that it isn't being maintained any more. Like Berny says, the glass is where your money will end up going & is the most important part of the kit. |
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asap Unregistered guest | Thanks for the insight Chris and thanks again berny for everything. I have a few more questions. . . Have you guys had any experience with the, 55-200 DX Nikkor Lenses, I found one in a kit, alone the lense is $250.00, and with the kit it's only $1369.95, making the lense only $170.00. How useful would the telephoto lense be, is it worth it? And how important is the SB-800 Speedlight, it's quite expensive, lol. Oh and I don't see a camera case included anywhere in any of the kits, what gives? Thanks, -Asa |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3287 Registered: Dec-03 | The 55-200 lens is a fairly new product so I can't really comment on it. I think it is an option for the D50 kit. |
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New member Username: DubartimusNewport, RI United States Post Number: 2 Registered: May-05 | HI, I am sorry that this has nothing to do with the Nikon vs. Canon. But because of this site I bought the Nikon and it is increadable. I can not imagine loving a different camera anymore then this one. That said, I have another question for you guys and I didn't bother to look if there was a forum for this type of question(sorry). In any case, here is the question. Now that I have a digi cam. I can no longer use Adobe Photoshop 5.5. Well I can but not for RAW. I have been doing some research already and found that using Phase 1 (Capture One, for$100) to do most of the work on the RAW files and then convert them to TIFF has worked woderfully. I can then open them up in Photoshop 5.5. I am on a 15 day free trial with them. I am happy so far. I would not like to spend over a hundred dollars. And I can't not take RAW pictures now that I have seen the difference. Any other good cheap programs out there? (I know that in itself is a contradiction in terms). Thanks Jason |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3301 Registered: Dec-03 | If you are using photoshop already, why not just upgrade to the latest version. You can actually use the upgrade version to Photoshop CS or CS2 if you have the photoshop 5.5 Capture One is nothing compared to the latest PS version. |
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asap Unregistered guest | I just purchased the Nikon D70S! Thank you Berny for all your great insight! |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3316 Registered: Dec-03 | Good for you. What lenses did you get? |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 181 Registered: Sep-04 | Jason, look at Raw Shooter Essentials (www.pixmantec.com)--this would be your contradiction, free & good. From what I've heard it's some of the guys who did Capture One. I have played with it a bit and it's a very capable converter, though the interface is a bit quirky. Another option that's cheaper than C1 is BreezeBrowser Pro. I'm using PSCS and personally am more comfortable with ACR right now. CS is a huge upgrade from 5.5, it's worth the money. I have not loaded up the CS2 trial yet, but it seems that there's even more for digital photographers in it, and ACR 3 is supposed to be a significant update as well. |
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asap Unregistered guest | Berny, I got the kit 18-70mm and that's it, thought I'd save up for a good telephoto lense instead of getting a cheap crap one. . .!I think I'm going to save up for the 70-200vr lense, and possibly a fisheye. You have any recomendations for a fisheye lense? I'm so excited! |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3339 Registered: Dec-03 | There are plenty of excellent fisheye lenses made by nikkor. It all depends on what you want to capture. My suggestion is that you take the time to learn more about photography before diving deep into getting more equipment. Do with what you have before you start getting all kinds of lenses. Learn first to determine the type of shooting that you will do. As soon as you get a feel for your shooting style and niche, then you will be able to determine what other lenses you will need. |
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New member Username: JoyPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-05 | Hi I am an amateaur photographer and love my 35mm camera. My husband is constantly using his "Camera phone" and an older digital camera but I just can't give up my film camera. My typical subjects are a five year old and my 10 month old baby. I am going through 4 to 5 rolls a month and with the baby crawling I am wasting film because he is moving too fast and not predictable. I feel it is time to move to digital but I want the quality of my film camera. I have read the whole dialog re Cannon VS. Nikon. My Current Camera is a Nikon N80. I have two Nikor lenses so I guess this should be a no brainer for me. I don't have much time to do any post processing manipulation so I am just wondering if I am going to be disappointed compared to my N80. Also at the local Camera store they offer a class on the D70 for $150.00 that I am thinking of taking if I buy the D70. Would you reccommend a class based on the difficulty level of operating this camera? Thanks for any information. Joy |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3372 Registered: Dec-03 | If you owned the N80 and plan on purchasing a D70 as your next camera, you are really not going to notice a lot of difference by way of controls. They are very similar. I don't understand the anticipation of the "difficulty level of operating this camera" remark. There really isn't that much of a difference when compared to a film camera. You still have to compose, adjust shutter and aperture, and meter in the same way. You just get to see the results instantly. As far as post processing is concerned, you really don't need to do any of that if you prefer not to do so. You can simply take the picture and transfer them to your computer. You can do most of the adjustments in the camera so you don't have to do anything else on the computer. I would only recommend a class based on the person's ability and grasp of the basics of photography and not on how to operate the camera. But it never hurts to brush up on your technique. However, if this class is D70 specific, it would help out specially if you are not the manual reading type. The D70 manual is obscenely boring. |
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Silver Member Username: ClaudermilkPost Number: 183 Registered: Sep-04 | LOL, like any camera manual makes for gripping reading? If you're familiar with the film SLR, moving to a DSLR shouldn't be that big of a deal. The best part is the instant feedback & you can just fire away to see what happens and erase any mistakes, no harm no foul. I'd say play with it for a while before dropping the money on the class; if you can't get a handle on the differences, then think about the class. |