Excessive force??
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Gold Member Username: RideredderCornell, IL USA Post Number: 1071 Registered: Sep-05 | Fifteen year old girl arrested for curfew violation. The cop slams her head onto the hood of the patrol car, then she bites his arm and the cop punches her in the face and pepper sprays her. She was resisting arrest but I don't think hitting her would have been my first option. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=343_1191611193 |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 10921 Registered: Jun-06 | Why on earth was he having such a hard time controlling a 15 year old little girl? Should never had gotten that far. |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1126 Registered: Apr-06 | I can't really fault the cop for the amount of force used. I mean, what the heck was he supposed to do when being bit? Its not like he reared up and delivered a knockout punch or something. He gave her a quick pop to get her off and stun her and used the pepper spray to finish the job. |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 13450 Registered: Jan-06 | I hate most cops myself, even though I have a few cop friends (older guys...not these new young cowboy type cops)...and based solely on this video, the cop appeared to be doing the right thing, IMO....the girl obviously was NOT co-operating, and the cop didn't want to get physical with her, for again obvious reasons that he's on video and also may hurt her...so once she bit him, he was left with no choice...he doesn't want to get bit again...she could have been a crackhead street hooker with Aids.. |
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Gold Member Username: PitbullguyAscendant Audio Arsenals, Chicago Post Number: 2115 Registered: Oct-06 | i don't think he SHOULD have punched her...but i can't say it was wrong for him to do so. hope that makes sense, i just i mean i don't think I would have in his situation. Definitely NOT a case of any criminal action on the cops part though. He was really patient asking her again and again to cooperate saying "i don't wanna use force". IMO he was maybe too patient. His tone of voice should have gone from asking her, to telling her. He was kinda letting her beg and plead and throw a fit. |
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Gold Member Username: Denali_on_22sMoney man, blowin Post Number: 3021 Registered: Feb-06 | i mean the guy has to be a huge p*ssy to not be able to restrain a f*ckin 15 year old girl... |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 10923 Registered: Jun-06 | ^^^My point. Aren't they trained to take down guys twice thier size? Ok so he was stand-off-ish because of how small she was. Isn't it his responsibility to control the situation? I say he got bit because he couldn't. Not to be sexist but it's also why I don't like to see female cops. There are just some things a female isn't built for. Say you're in a burning building and passed out to smoke inhalation. Would anyone want a 130lb female firefighter to try and drag me out who has 90lbs of gear on already? Not being sexist, just a realist.  |
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Gold Member Username: Nyyfan13Fi SSD USA Post Number: 6850 Registered: Jul-06 | hate to sound like a d1ck but she deserved it. she knew what she was doing and knew she was being a little b1tch. cop gave her plenty of opportunities to be cooperative and gave her several warnings that he mite have to use force. like i said, im probably sounding harsh but she deserved it. |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1127 Registered: Apr-06 | "Aren't they trained to take down guys twice thier size?" Being trained to take down guys twice his size doesn't help him in dealing with a 15 year old girl a quarter of his size though. Obviously he could physically restrain her, but given that he is being scrutinized on camera, the cop has to choose very carefully the manner in which to restrain the girl, who is 15, quarter his size, black, etc. Did he do everything perfectly? Probably not. But its pretty easy to point that out in a comfortable chair behind my computer versus actually being in a situation like that. "Isn't it his responsibility to control the situation?" In the end, he did what he had to do, in a relatively controlled manner all things considered. "Say you're in a burning building and passed out to smoke inhalation. Would anyone want a 130lb female firefighter to try and drag me out who has 90lbs of gear on already? " Who the heck says that female firefighters are 130 pounds? I've seen several, and they aren't people I'd want to pick a fight with. |
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Silver Member Username: Gavbo211JL Audio 10w3v2, IL US Post Number: 685 Registered: Jan-05 | He actually handled that situation very well. no case brought against that video will hold up in court, that was almost text book procedure on his part. The "governing law" for an officer states that for whatever amount of force is used against him, he is allowed to retaliate with one level higher of force. i would say for the fact that whe was clearly resisting, then bit the officer, he was well within his limitations, and his actions were actually quite controlled. And like stephen says, you run into problems with cameras. i'm not saying that they shouldnt have cameras, im just saying that they arent always the solution. cops are limit there actions because they are afraid of law suits. im taking two law classes right now, and we have had cops speak in both, and they all say the fear of law suits because of these cameras greatly hinders the actions that they take when enforcing the law. but the point is.. that cop did exactly what he should have done, that littl bi*tch had it coming. |
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Gold Member Username: PitbullguyAscendant Audio Arsenals, Chicago Post Number: 2119 Registered: Oct-06 | "cop gave her plenty of opportunities to be cooperative" too many opportunities if you ask me. I don't have a problem with the way he reacted to the bite, it was a reflex, someone bites you, you defend yourself. But it shouldn't have gotten to that point. Because of the way he handled it, she obviously wasn't taking it seriously. So she struggled, whined, cried, yelled and even bit him eventually. |
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Gold Member Username: Naledge503Http://com4.runboard.c... Post Number: 2152 Registered: Jun-06 | He was being damn patient and trying to be gentle with her until she bit him. I think he handled it extremely well. |
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Gold Member Username: CenusOhio Post Number: 3799 Registered: Jan-05 | a little excessive imo, although he gave her plenty of oppurtunities to stop, deos he know what a pressure point is? i gurantee i could of controlled her with two well placed fingers. |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1128 Registered: Apr-06 | "deos he know what a pressure point is? i gurantee i could of controlled her with two well placed fingers." I can control most women with a *single* well placed finger. But if a girl is biting me hard, I'd be much more likely to reflexively give her a good smack to get her off me rather than try and recall where a pressure point that I could exploit would be. |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1129 Registered: Apr-06 | "too many opportunities if you ask me." Easy for you to say now, after the fact. Given that she didn't appear to represent a threat, the cop could reasonably afford to give her a few chances to behave. Then of course we go back to the whole camera thing. If he is reasonably patient with her on camera, it pretty well protects him against liability should he need to use force later. "Because of the way he handled it, she obviously wasn't taking it seriously. So she struggled, whined, cried, yelled and even bit him eventually." I don't know about you, but the mere presence of a cop is sufficient for me to generally take a situation seriously. Being handcuffed by a cop, I suspect I'd be taking the situation even more seriously. If that wasn't enough for her, I doubt the officer taking a more forceful tone would have realistically helped much either. |
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Gold Member Username: CenusOhio Post Number: 3800 Registered: Jan-05 | "I can control most women with a *single* well placed finger." what? what pressure point is that anyway i know if someone bites me i'd get pissed and probally slam them around to, but pressure points work perfect for controlling people just don't let go and eventually their give up resiting. "rather than try and recall where a pressure point that I could exploit would be" what? umm without even thinking i can name 2 good pressure points, the neck for one and the temple right above the ear, two well placed fingers ont he neck can controll anyone, i know i it to my brother, who litterally twice my size, and if you keep the pressure point on long enough eventually the person will pass out. so IMO the whole slam her head and mase her was not needed if the cop would of used his head, which isn't that what their trained for, could of easily assed the situation while using minimal force. |
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Gold Member Username: AdddisorderPalm Beach, Florida Post Number: 5429 Registered: Jan-06 | that happend like the next county over a while back. the cop had the right to do what he did. was their a better way to handle it probably. point is she was resisting arrest, and "fought back" against a cop, he needed to restrain her and he did his job. im not trying to defend cops but we cant pick at every move they make. |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1130 Registered: Apr-06 | "what? what pressure point is that anyway " Heh...no comment. "i know if someone bites me i'd get pissed and probally slam them around to" Well then, that's it, isn't it? "umm without even thinking i can name 2 good pressure points" Yes, but would you use them in a split second reaction if someone was biting you? Its like being bitten by a dog. Yeah I could choke it and it would eventually let go, but punching it in the nose would be a lot quicker. Now if you're suggesting that he use them prior to being bitten, I doubt he figured the girl would go that far. And given that he had her pretty well pinned, he probably figured her struggle wouldn't last too long anyways. |
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Gold Member Username: PitbullguyAscendant Audio Arsenals, Chicago Post Number: 2121 Registered: Oct-06 | http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e0b_1182860747 how about this one? Can't exactly see all of what's happening here, so it's speculation for sure but....my gut tells me, the kid was a dick, but the cops did use excessive force. |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 10926 Registered: Jun-06 | It's obvious the punch to the head was a knee jerk reaction to the bite. I never said he handled himself poorly, it was a reaction, a human one. She was unruly and too young for the situation herself. At 15 I didn't have much sense either. To play devil's advocate though if it were my 15 year old daughter who got punched and maced for being scared and making a mistake I would feel differently. My stepson had uncontrollable fits like what she put the officer through. ADHD was his problem. We had to physically restrain him at times in fear he would hurt someone or himself. Never once did I belt him in the jaw and break out the mace. What would I do as an officer to a strange girl like that I do not know. "Obviously he could physically restrain her, but given that he is being scrutinized on camera, the cop has to choose very carefully the manner in which to restrain the girl, who is 15, quarter his size, black, etc." Slamming her head on the hood, punching her and mace. Short of shooting her what else could he have done to that 15 year old girl that WOULDN'T be scrutinized? I'm no judge or jury. I wonder though if the officer feels guilty or not. And I HAVE seen 130lb female firefighters. Pine hill has several officers that small also. I'm not a salesman for a living because I don't have the tools for a pursuasive personality and I can't hide the fact when I'm lying. Some do, they get the job. I wouldn't expect a fish to enter a lumberjack contest.  |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 10927 Registered: Jun-06 | Pit, that took place only minutes from where I live. That was a different animal altogether. He's got a case IMO. Hancuffed, thrown in the back seat, choked, dragged back out and manhandled because of name calling. Then when reminded of failing to read him his rights he quickly whips out his miranda cheat sheet and spits it out. Unbelievable. Notice how calm and collect the officers were when the female officer arrived? When they shackled him and he cursed them out you didn't see one reaction in front of the female officer, like this is how we always are. The kid was a complete mouth yes. Way out of line IMO from the officers. Think about it. He was handcuffed in the back seat. Why open the door and drag him out???????????? Because of the god complex some cops have. |
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Gold Member Username: PitbullguyAscendant Audio Arsenals, Chicago Post Number: 2122 Registered: Oct-06 | clearly you know more about this case than i do, this vid was the first i've seen/heard about it. But yeah, when the cop was supposedly choking the crap out of him, it sounded to me like that's exactly what was going on. I don't think the kid was like putting on a big performance like it was an evil plot to frame the police. He was genuinely struggling to breathe and let out a sort of stifled scream from what i heard. and it CERTAINLY wasn't necessary force. |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 10929 Registered: Jun-06 | Exactly. He was already detained in the back seat. What's the officer going to tell the jury, "I wanted to be sure his seat belt was on....and then he attacked ME"?????? The kid called him some names and it got under his skin. The cop then opened the door and assaulted the handcuffed detainee. Of course he kicked at him, he was being choked. Imagine if these cops stopped this guy. There would certainly be beatings lol. |
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Gold Member Username: CenusOhio Post Number: 3801 Registered: Jan-05 | "i know if someone bites me i'd get pissed and probally slam them around to" Well then, that's it, isn't it?" your statement is taken out of context, and yes ido think i could put a pressure point on in a split second, again i wrestle my brother whos 6'5 weighs 220 and im only 5'7 granted he useally kicks my azz but if i get a good pressure point on i can hold my own for a while, but back to topic, the girl resisted, the cop had to what he could to restarin her, did he do the right thing IMHO yes, but there could of been altenatives which would of yielded the same results but be much less, "aggressive" |
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Gold Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 1131 Registered: Apr-06 | "yes ido think i could put a pressure point on in a split second" But would it be your gut reaction to being bit? That is what I'm contending. "did he do the right thing IMHO yes, but there could of been altenatives which would of yielded the same results but be much less, "aggressive" Maybe he could have done it better, but its a lot easier to make that statement on a computer versus actually facing that situation. |
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Platinum Member Username: WingmanaliveA pic is worth 1000 posts!! Post Number: 10930 Registered: Jun-06 | I wouldn't know what I would do. That officer probably couldn't predict it either. Would any of us run into a burning building to save someone else's child??? You just don't know. |
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Gold Member Username: The_image_dynamicSan Diego Post Number: 3060 Registered: Dec-06 | The dumb ho got off easy. How many times do you have to tell someone something? I would have tased her right when she said "I'm not tryin' ta go to jail" and shot her in the face when she bit me. |
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Gold Member Username: RideredderCornell, IL USA Post Number: 1075 Registered: Sep-05 | I just love how everyone in that situation are always saying, "I didn't do anything!" after they know that they did do something wrong. |
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Gold Member Username: CenusOhio Post Number: 3805 Registered: Jan-05 | "But would it be your gut reaction to being bit? That is what I'm contending." me personally no, but a cop who has to go through training to deal with situations like this it should be. "Maybe he could have done it better, but its a lot easier to make that statement on a computer versus actually facing that situation." true, but this is a forum, im not a cop and never plan on being one but i can voice my opinion. |
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Gold Member Username: PitbullguyAscendant Audio Arsenals, Chicago Post Number: 2123 Registered: Oct-06 | ROTFL thanks for posting that Paul, I needed a good laugh and that absolutely made my day, YOU ROCK! |