Archive through July 17, 2004
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 709 Registered: Dec-03 | how about this one ghia!  |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 710 Registered: Dec-03 | or this one!  |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 711 Registered: Dec-03 | or maybe this one!  |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 712 Registered: Dec-03 | the last one is me around 1990 when i finally started to let go of the whole george michael thing! |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 164 Registered: Mar-04 | Kegger, Please tell me you're not spending your time surfing the web looking for "hunk guys." I always thought of you as one of the "cool guys" hanging around here. Am I going to have to re-think that? Actually, my wife walked into my office while I was looking through this thread just when I had gotten to your pics for Ghia. I tried to explain they were posted by someone named Kegger. She just said, "riiiiiight, we've got to find you a new hobby." Thanks... |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 714 Registered: Dec-03 | sem that is awsome. and yes it was a little difficult to get myself to grab some hunk pics. but i felt the need to return the favor to ghia. anyways it was only 2 pics as you know the last was me. lol |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 165 Registered: Mar-04 | Too late Kegger. I've already had to wash my eyes out with soap. Sorry, I guess I'll never be able to look at you the same anymore. Is that a Labatts in our pocket, or are you just..... |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 715 Registered: Dec-03 | busch |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 716 Registered: Dec-03 | what we got sterotypes hear? a woman can post women pic's, but a guy can't post pic's of guy's for a woman. that sounds a little male showviennasausage to me! |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 166 Registered: Mar-04 | "busch" Oh man, its worse than I thought. "that sounds a little male showviennasausage to me!" Hehehe, Kegger, you made my day. I had a good laugh at all this. In fact, tonight at dinner I lifted my glass in toast for you. Cheers!! |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 195 Registered: Apr-04 | I'll post some responses as soon as I can get up off the floor! ROTFL |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 196 Registered: Apr-04 | JohnA: You wrote: "Hey, we could invite Alma, too. She might bring one of her new boyfriends. I've always wanted to have few words with Shoenberg, for example. We would need to worry about the tab if she brought them all. " LOL! Rumor has it, Aimee has gotten around in the rock world as well but still appears to be "out-manned" by Alma! At least from a "quality" perspective and, perhaps, quantity too. Sorry, but I have to dispute rating Alma higher on the mH scale than AM. From my perspective it indeed must be "hidden charms" which beguiled so many of the powerful, creative men she wooed. From the looks of that waist, she makes Ally McBeal look like a sumo wrestler! As for the Bond girls and all the other virtuosos, well, it's a new world for classical music, eh? |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 197 Registered: Apr-04 | Sem, I'm glad you have an understanding wife. ;-) 2c, You are wise not to get into the hottie debate. Kegger, Uh, standby.... |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 159 Registered: Feb-04 | John A.: Here we are on another thread with Mahler on it. Will this madness ever end? To add more fuel to your fire: Arnold Schoenberg was inspired by Gus and called him a "saint." So there you have it--the circle of shame is complete: Wagner>Mahler>Schoenberg. And your position is bolstered further by the Anton Webern dodecaphonic conspiracy. Regarding orchestral placement, please don't place me in the old f*rt camp. You can put all 76 trombones across stage front for all I care. That will at least make them stop goosing the french horn players, and we all know those people are uptight enough already. And don't get me started on those double reed players.... OK, I'm done. We can get back to more beef/cheesecake now. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 198 Registered: Apr-04 | Kegger, What can I say? lol! I have a feeling those guys don't "swing my way" - even if they were "my type". You trolled the internet looking for hunk pics? As they say here in the South "bless your little heart!" lol! |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 253 Registered: Feb-04 | There's been a lot of talk about having beers with Alma Mahler (many of Mahler's sweetest melodies are love themes for her). I would suggest having the beers in San Francisco. I can bring a ouija board and we can try channeling Alma's spirit. Kegger, you can even wear the black, see-through top you seem to be fond of (as in the pic above). Believe me, people wouldn't even look twice around here. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 199 Registered: Apr-04 | Alma Mahler....AM Aimee Mann....AM hmmm....speaking of channeling spirits perhaps AM is AM reincarnate? |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 200 Registered: Apr-04 | Ok, giving myself equal time:  |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 201 Registered: Apr-04 | And, again:  |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 202 Registered: Apr-04 | And, again: |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 203 Registered: Apr-04 | oops! There were just two pics....and those are the last ones, I promise! otherwise I'll probably get banned from the forum. For those needing identification, Gary Dourdan and George Clooney, a couple of guys that float my boat.... |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 720 Registered: Dec-03 | what are you trying to say ghia you didn't like my pics? and you never got into george michael? but at least you said it's the thought that counts. sem i am glad i made your day and the toast is well appreciated. and 2 cents i will wear thet little ditty just for you! |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 721 Registered: Dec-03 | i am glad to see we all have a sense of humor. it makes my work day go by quicker. but i have to admit i couldn't go to my normal places to find pics! and it was very awkward scouring the net in search of beefcake! none of my normal searches or phrases worked! lol and i nead other people to feed off of. so when you all post something my brain gets going trying to find a response. i'm more of a reactor than a beginner. so it's all your fault you got me started. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1650 Registered: Dec-03 | Kegger, I liked those first two photos, the ones of Mahler and Wagner. That's just how I imagine them. I think Ghia is right about their orientation, and wonder if that was Alma's problem. I guess they fancied themselves as intellectual beefcake, as it were. Mind you, there is a story that Wagner's timely end came after a strenuous workout with a serving w*nch. Abusers of power, imho. Now, friends, you already know I am off another planet, so can someone please explain "Busch"...? Or is it better left unexplained...? If you really look like that third pic, Kegger, (!), I would be very careful about visiting public utilities in southern California. LAPD has photos like that on file. Loretta Lynn doesn't look so bad, after that. Ghia, Bless you. When you wrote (July 06, 2004 - 09:26 pm), following Kegger's self-portrait "Ok, giving myself equal time:" I got totally the wrong idea, for a moment. The more I look at Alma's photo, the more I begin to get the picture. Let me upgrade her to 50 mH. I wonder what sort of boots she was wearing...?  Sem, I found the "serious" female string player pics myself, and intend to look out for their records. They don't look like the sort to mess around with SACD; more DVD-A musicians, I would say.... I can imagine Bond on SACD, but their prime format is DVD-Video, obviously. I say "serious", though look at the way that first lady is looking at, and holding, her violin. But I digress... "Bond" was new to me. I asked my wife what we could do to rehabilitate "classical". She has read this thread, and remarks only that I do not normally use the work "gals". She couldn't quite recall Bond's name, but found it through Google. The instruments worry me. Strads, they are not. But it is difficult to focus on the instruments for long... I've seen Bond on "Classic FM TV" I think, playing Vivaldi in wet swimsuits. Beats Alan Parsons any day. A glass shall be raised to all. 2c, Great, it's a deal. "Twenty-five Anchor Steam Beers, please!". JOHN S, Thank you for the link, and for remembering the great Mahler debate. You left out Stockhausen. Look where duodecaphony led us. Nowhere. What a con, honestly. I can't imagine Alma being taken in for a second. Surely she wanted more than, um, no, it won't get past the forum filter. All, If people had even the faintest hint about the private lives of composers, the "old f*rt" image would be gone for good. And then, there is the music itself, and I don't just mean Ravel's "Bolero". Around a hundred years ago, there was a bunch of "impressionist" composers competing with each other to see who could write the most graphic "tone poem" depicting you-know-what. Debussy's "Apres-midi d'un faune" is a strong contender, but Delius won, with "Brigg Fair". Listen, you will understand. Madonna was too innocent; never had a clue. Britney Spears is not in the race. These young folk do not know what they are missing. The following words are not allowed on this discussion board: w*nch Please revise your post to remove the words indicated above. Please, no, no; what planet are these people off? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1651 Registered: Dec-03 | Everyone, Please follow JOHN S's link, here it is again, Urban Legends and Folklore. Webern's Dodecaphonic Conspiracy. That is the funniest thing I've read for years. "Physicist Edward Teller, who kept a 9-foot Steinway piano in his apartment at the Los Alamos laboratory, was the unwitting deliverer..." The really hilarious part is at the end, when someone solemnly discusses why it might not be a real news item. This reflects a common opinion of Americans, (See "A Fish called Wanda") ; I am glad to see this thread disproves it! |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 722 Registered: Dec-03 | Busch - Introduced in 1955, Busch has a smooth, light taste. The brand is the country's largest-selling subpremium-priced beer in all major demographics.  busch - the hair around the lower region of a person's genitalia. |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 723 Registered: Dec-03 | well you get the general idea. it works better if you don't have to explain it. then just the vision comes to mind. and the second "busch" should be (bush) |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 724 Registered: Dec-03 | john: i do like those bond girls. they give me a "Bolero". and no i look nothing like that pic. i wear red "under.wear!" |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1652 Registered: Dec-03 | Kegger, I get it. Thanks. Sorry to be slow; sometimes these things don't travel well. We have discussed beers before. There was a microbrewery in 2c's vicinity called Rolling Rock... I know English Ales a bit better. There is a Young's Ram Rod, and a Shepherd Neame Bishop's Finger. This thread will only stand so much. Glad you liked Bond. Who could not? I worried it might get us closed down. It's only a matter of time. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1655 Registered: Dec-03 | Kegger, Going way back, and sorry again to be slow, who is Loretta Lynn's father "this dude who gets coal"? And is she any relation to Vera.....? |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 726 Registered: Dec-03 | john: "she is one of those woman that you spin the record backwards and all your stuff comes back a famous one at that" (country singer) "and she is the daughter of this dude who gets coal." http://entertainment.msn.com/album/?album=114441 that is her biggest hit! |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 160 Registered: Feb-04 | John A.: Maybe it's safe to say Loretta is not related to Vera Lynn, but who knows? Loretta's father was an Appalachian Mtn. coal miner, played by (Band drummer) Levon Helm in the movie "Coal Miner's Daughter." (1980) Sissy Specak won an Oscar for her work as Loretta Lynn in the film. Helm is astonishing in his part, imo. Far from a "microbrewery" Rolling Rock is actually in Latrobe, Pennsylvania (home of golfer Arnold Palmer) near Pittsburgh, not remotely near 2c. I found the name 'Bishop's Finger' to be more interesting than the beer. My favorite is Boddingtons in the widget can (export only I think). The "widget" inside produces a fine stream of nitrogen, making the beer super foamy, thereby approximating a true draught. One look at this beer poured into a pint glass explains why it's called "the milk of Manchester." Ghia: Showing my old f*rt ignorance here, who is Gary Dourdan? I wonder if a complete list of forbidden words on this forum is accessible. Maybe we could do a George Carlin type schtik with it. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 440 Registered: Feb-04 | I've been having the odd peek at this thread lately and well, really folks, I thought Ronnie Corbett was the world's worst digressionist (if there's such a word)! And those Bond girls may be ample proof for those who believe that exposure to all the sax and violins in the world is the prime cause of moral decline. I might agree as that photo instantly brings to mind the term "to fiddle around." Now what was this about having to use 'widgets' to put a decent head on a beer? John S you really need to visit Australia. (grin) |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1656 Registered: Dec-03 | KEGGER, Thanks, yet again. JOHN S, Warm thanks. I was waiting for the question "who is Vera Lynn?" but no need, now, exept to say that those guys do not know how to make web sites, nor seem to know she was "The Forces' Sweetheart". My parents went all misty-eyed over any Vera Lynn song. "We'll meet again" is cheap, sentimental, but totally moving. Sixty years ago, so many promised each other they would, but didn't. The outcome of D-Day surely owes something to Vera Lynn. I seem to remember a "Rolling Rock" on Shattuck Ave., but I search and find they got sued by Rolling Rock, Latrobe, even as "Roaring Rock" - so I got the name wrong. Apologies, and thanks. Something's Brewing in Berkeley: Beer and Sake. Yes, that Boddington's is good. You can also get "Draught" Guinness in a can, works on the same principle. Very nice, but I prefer bottled. It used to be "live", like Anchor Steam. Thanks for the movie recommendation, I will look out for that. She was only a coal miner's daughter, but she really knew how to.... [complete]. I am amused by how many completely innocent words are banned on this forum, and by what you can get away with, nevertheless, if you miss them out. This thread is a case in point. BTW if you know The Band, I have "The Last Waltz" (tipped off here, wonderful; there is one nice C&W song there). I find not a single name on "The Last Walz" in common with the musicians backing Dylan on "Blonde on Blonde". Yet I always thought that was their "big break", and they even sound he same. What did I get wrong? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1657 Registered: Dec-03 | My Rantz, I was hoping you might chip in here! That post is classic My Rantz. See my comment to JOHN S about what you can get away with, here. You push the limits, you old rogue. BTW there is no previous mention of "Ronnie" or "Corbett" on this thread. Have the Bond girls got you all confused, or am I missing something....? |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 441 Registered: Feb-04 | John A I was alluding to Corbett (who was always known to say "but, I digress" as he told his anecdotes) as those in this thread seem to have taken the crown for the great "digressors" - I mean have the posters on this thread digressed ot not? But, I'll digress again: "Sax and Violins" was a song by Talking Heads and seemed appropriate for your photo of Bond. Btw - Bond's are an under-clothing (underwar3 is another banned word here - go figure!) brand here in Aus. There was Chesty Bonds, Bond's Cottontails and so on. So there's an album title in there for them somewhere: Bond in Bond's or such! BTW - Sissy Spacek did the vocals for the Lynn songs in that movie - and quite well too! |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 161 Registered: Feb-04 | My Rantz: I thought of you last night as I popped a Queensland shiraz with burgers off the grill. Yes, I would love to visit Australia, but not for the beer. I'd head straight for Adelaide, where a lot of the great reds are made: Penfolds Grange, Henschkes Hill of Grace and many others in the Southern Vales, Barossa and Claire Valleys. It's a dream that might come true some day. I always smile when an Aussie-accented dude says on our TV--"Fosters: Australian for beer." Yes, Nora Jones is pleasant enough, more talented than to just be known as Ravi Shankar's daughter. She's young now, and if she continues to evolve, could become very important. For the time being, Diana Krall is my pick. What's your take on her new album? I'm still  over your Ravi as wandering minstrel comment. John A.: I had honestly heard of Vera Lynn before I Googled that site, which I don't think was all that bad. They are fans of her, who'll sell you some of her records if you want. If you scroll down, you can hear all of "Well meet again." we'll meet again don't know where don't know when but I know we'll meet again some sunny day.... |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 442 Registered: Feb-04 | John S South Australia does have its good whines, but some of those Adelaideans can be a bit funny (odd), then good wine can do that! I have only listened to a couple of seconds each of the first 3 or 4 tracks on D Kralls new album. I must admit that it didn't grab me but I will no doubt be giving it a decent listen soon so my opinion will be on hold. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1664 Registered: Dec-03 | JS, When MR writes "South Australia does have its good whines..." I hope you notice you get both attention to detail and authentic Australian humour.! Thanks for Vera Lynn. I am not THAT old. But it is good to remember pop has been pop for generations. She probably met the Glenn Miller band "over there". It's only 60 years. The young lovers who promised to "meet again", but didn't, could reasonably have expected to see the year 2004 together, without that job to do. Who knows, one or two might have made the Old Dogs and could have told us stuff about tube amps and what their wives or grandchildren thought of Nora Jones. MR, Thanks, yet again. I have mentioned this before, but it is amazing what Mrs A seems to know. She had heard of Loretta Lynn, Sissy Spacek, and Nora Jones. I saw your post about Nora on "Guitars never sounded so great" but could not admit I thought she was a character out of Coronation Street. I know better, now. From photos I would say 100 mH, at least. Mrs A says she's great we must get some recordings. What an education this forum has been. Yes, Australian table wines have come a long way. Personally I guess the famous Australian Table Wines Sketch was pure snobbery, the whinging Pom personified. Wines just had to be French, Italian or German in those days, just like opera, classical etc. It was rollocks, the sort of attitude that put everyone off everythng. Music is there for listening, like wine is for drinking. Then you make up you own mind what you like..... shock, horror! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1665 Registered: Dec-03 | JS, Just don't hestitate. Go to Australia. It is wonderful. I say that with no fear of bias. It is worth the trip just for deep immersion in humour therapy, apart from the land, oceans, wildlife, wines, etc etc etc. Yes, they have "culture", too, but they knock it more effectively themselves than anyone else can, even before it is packaged and exported. One of the only composers I like who is actually alive is an Ozzie called Peter Sculthorpe, I think. |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 162 Registered: Feb-04 | KEGGER: "anyways it was only 2 pics as you know the last was me. lol" Very funny. Too bad you put the "lol" in because you could have left some doubt there--mmm...maybe it is him. I got to thinking, what if it was mandatory to post a personal picture of yourself on this forum in order to participate? I'd have to go troll on the net for a pic flattering and/or interesting enough to use. "Uh yeah, that's me accepting the Nobel prize for literature" or "This is from a few years ago: me in a pose-off with Arnold Schwarzenegger." MR: If the Adelaideans are a "bit funny," then what about the Perthians (Perthers? Perthites?). I read once the Perth was the most isolated large city in the world--so they surely must have their own thing going. I know you live as far away from Perth as a New Yorker is from LA, but I thought you might have an opinion. I've listened to the new DK album (Girl in the other room) and I won't say a word until and if you are ready to discuss it. John A.: I certainly did not mean to imply you are THAT old in my Vera Lynn post. I was born right at the end of the war, so while I didn't experience it, I've always been fascinated by that period in history. Thanks for the Python Australian wine link. The next time I drink a high-alcohol California cabernet I'm going to use the "lingering afterburn" line. Most of the wine world is pretty pretentious. I once had a high profile French negotiant/grower look down his nose at me and say "But of course chardonnay grows like a weed anywhere." "But only I can make white Burgundy" was left unsaid but certainly implied. I love French wines, but some of those people are so full of it. Not so the Aussies, and they're doing a good job down there. So you like a composer who's "actually alive?" I have to look up this Sculthorpe fellow. Almost all my 20th Century favorites are gone, Hindemith, Shostakovich, Ravel (d1937), Prokofief, Stravinsky, Bartok, Copeland. Only Karlheinze Stockhausen remains with us. |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 163 Registered: Feb-04 | Wonder how many people in California know how to spell their governor's name? |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 759 Registered: Dec-03 | john s. i appreciate you noticed and enjoyed the humor. but when i first posted those pic's the next post did say it was me with no. "lol" i left it that way intentional so some might think. but after sem's post i had to come out of the closet. or get back in however you want to take it! anyways i love these forums where you may have refined individual's as yourself and many others hear who are not snobs and those mear peasants "myself" sharing ideas and beliefs so frealy. and maybe learning a thing or two from each. I raise my beer stein to you sir! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1692 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, everyone. I worry about taking things too far off topic. Cheers, Kegger. Here's to us peasants! The line that has stuck with us, from that "table wines" sketch, is "this one is not for drinking, it is for laying down and avoiding". Robert Modavi's unsuccessful attempt to buy land in the Languedoc to make into a vinyard is a tale of ruthless protectionism and blind prejudice, imho. It's "the environment", they claimed, but underneath it said "no foreigners, here, or there'll be real trouble" about as plainly as you could wish. It completely swung an election to a massive majority for a communist mayor whose only policy was to keep out Mondavi. Vive l'Australia. JS, I do not exactly regard being alive as a disqualification. They just all seem mad, to me. Birtwhistle, Maxwell Davies, etc. I except Michael Berkeley, and Peter Sculthorpe. Was it not the late, great Jimi Hendrix who said, about pop/rock stars, "When you're dead, you're made for life"? There was a Henry Purcell tercentary commission a few years ago, and a number of people had a go at writing in a genre at which he was the absolute last - nothing between 1680 and 1996!. Some of those were good, but I have only heard scraps on the radio. One of the composers who contributed was Elvis Costello. Must go. That was a real ramble. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1693 Registered: Dec-03 | From the Sculthorpe link: "Sculthorpe's most recent major work, Requiem for SATB chorus, orchestra and solo didjeridu,".... Haven't heard that. |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 164 Registered: Feb-04 | John A.: Vera Lynn's "We'll meet Again" has been rattling around my head for two days now. Where have I heard that before? Then it hit me.....it's on the soundtrack of Kubrick's "Dr. Strangelove." |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 171 Registered: Mar-04 | "Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn? Remember how she said that We would meet again Some sunny day? Vera! Vera! What has become of you? Does anybody else here Feel the way I do?" - Roger Waters from The Wall ("Vera") |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1702 Registered: Dec-03 | She's looking good. There's a recent photo on this page, Dame Vera Lynn, and here is a short biography Vera Lynn. |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 167 Registered: Feb-04 | I Googled didjeridu. It is very important business Down Under--I had no idea. I think I've heard one, but not sure. The only Henry Purcell thing I have is "Music for Queen Mary" Westminster Abbey Choir, recorded at Westminster. Some of this music is performed by the Abbey Choir for the first time since 1695. Lovely music for a Sunday morning. It's been written that Purcell (accent on the first syllable, right John?) was England's greatest composer ever. I can't argue that either way, but it is safe to say without his influence the glorious music of the Baroque would have been very different. Elvis C. trying his hand at Renaissance polyphony? Nobody ever accused him of being small of ego. This I gotta hear. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1707 Registered: Dec-03 | JOHN, I have that one, too, I think it is the same. Has a robin on the front. Martin Neary; Emma Kirkby....? Brilliant. Shame about the traffic noise; nothing they could do about that. Yes, first syllable. Yes, the greatest, bar none, imho. Well, unless go back earlier.... See also Sunday, May 09, 2004 - 11:24 pm on Audio fantasy........ Greatest song writer, ever, in the English language? John Dowland, imho. Even beats Bob Dylan, which is saying something. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1708 Registered: Dec-03 | BTW you can hear Dijeridoo (sic) players any day, busking in Copenhagen. Awesome instrument, greatly underappreciated. Wonder if My Rantz is reading. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1711 Registered: Dec-03 | JOHN S BTW if you like that Purcell ceremonial disc, there is a sonically and musically excellent Westminster Abbey disc where they went somewhere else, similar size, for the recording, to get away from the Central London traffic. Hyperion CDA67286 (2 disc for price of one) "the Coronation of King George II, 1727. Handel's Coronation Anthems and cermonial music by Purcell, Blow, Tallis, Gibbons, Farmer and Child, trumpet fanfares, drum processions, shouts of acclamation and pealing bells". From the blurb it looks as if they went to a lot of trouble to make a multi-channel master, but so far it is only issued on CD. I find NAD "EARS" does a surprisingly good job with that: mostly "matrixed" surround does not work for me. Then there is the music.... |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 776 Registered: Dec-03 | yo ghia going back to the original topic of this thread. i have recently found 3 dvd-a's that i had bought before i knew what what dvd-a was. matalica. rem (document , good album) santana. bought them all originally for the dts 5.1 tracks. also i have a cheryl crow disk that is dts 6,1 es descrete and it sounds excelent. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 136 Registered: Dec-03 | The new Wilco CD is great...one of those titles that gets better with every listen. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 254 Registered: Feb-04 | Ben, did you like Yankee Foxtrot Hotel? How does the new album compare to YFH? |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 204 Registered: Apr-04 | JohnS: Gary Dourdan is an actor. He's on the TV show, CSI. Kegger, I have a number of REM cd's but none on hi-res formats. For the most part, I've been trying to buy stuff on hi-res that I don't already have (on cd) but may need to start duplicating. Which Sheryl Crow do you have? 2c, I agree with Ben's assessment on the Wilco cd. It is excellent, much better than YFH, imo. There are some standout tracks on YFH but I have a hard time listening to it from start to finish. The new Wilco is sonically similar to YFH but much more musical. This would be a good one for Elliot Scheiner to mix. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 137 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghost is more expiremental than YHF. At first listen, it seemed average to me. The next day I had the melodies running around in head and I listened to it again...much better. Every time I hear it, I like it more and more. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 255 Registered: Feb-04 | Ben and Ghia--Sounds like I'll have to get the new Wilco album. Don't know. I overdosed on Wilco after YFH, went as far as watching the documentary on the making of YFH ("I Am Trying to Break Your Heart"-recommended only to die-hard fans). So flipped on Wilco that I went around saying, "I thought I thaw a Tweedy bird". John A.-FYI "The Coronation of King George II" (Hyperion) is available as a multi-channel SACD. I have one Purcell disc "Ode for St. Cecilia's Day", which is outstanding in every way. I don't know why I haven't listened to more Purcell. It's probably healthier than listening to Wilco (not a knock against Wilco). Are there any other Purcell discs you would recommend? |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 784 Registered: Dec-03 | ghia this: "I have a number of REM cd's but none on hi-res formats. For the most part, I've been trying to buy stuff on hi-res that I don't already have (on cd) but may need to start duplicating" is the same thing i've been doing. i use to dj awhile back and have amassed a fairly large cd collection. so now i'm trying some very different music for 2 reasons. 1 get something i don't have and 2 is just trying something new. but like you i may have to start duplicating. anyways the cheryl crow is "the globe sessions". now remember it's technichly not a high rez disk. it's just dts es descrete but on my 7.1 setup it utilizies all my channels and sounds excelent. also i just found another dvd-a i had bought before i new any better about the high rez. it's lynard skynard. i'll give that one a listen to shortly. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1713 Registered: Dec-03 | Two Cents, Yes, I just noticed that Hyperion Cd "George II" is available on SACD, too. The straight CD sounds amazing played through my NAD T760, digital in, then processed with EARS. There are several "Odes for Saint Cecilia's day". Purcell wrote one every year for several years, I think. There is one with "'Tis Nature's Voice", where Purcell himself was supposed to have sung the awesome counter-tenor solo. There are many different recordings of that, too. The Hyperion recordings and performances (the King's Consort) are all outstanding, but there are many others. If you like that, you might like "Birthday Music for Queen Mary (Come ye sons of Art)". I wouldn't know where to start for other recommendations, there is so much. There is a totally unique and amazing set of Fantazias for Viol Consort written in 1680 which was really the end of the line for that genre, a bit like Bach's "Art of Fugue": there was nothing left to say. And he was only 20.... That is specialist stuff. There are versions by the Rose Consort on Naxos and by Fretwork on Virg*n Classics, and not much to choose between them. Awesome, really. Two of those were the basis of the various takes by Elvis Costello, Michael Nyman, and others, I think. BTW Purcell's main teacher was a guy called John Blow who just handed over to Purcell when he saw what he could do, then took back the post (I think organist of Westminster Abbey) after Purcell died, tragically, so young. Apart from the ceremonial and theatre music, he wrote some shockingly bawdy catches and rounds for his drinking pals. He could do anything, a total genius. He looked back and could do polyphony like any of the best renaissance composers, and forward to the baroque, as well as writing the best "pop" of the time. All this was before music divided into "pop", "classical" etc; these modern terms do not translate, honestly, imho. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1714 Registered: Dec-03 | 2c, JOHN S, Ghia, I now have the Rattle/Berlin Phil EMI DVD-A of Mahler 10, will report back. The notes say Mahler sketched it after discovering that Alma was playing away from home with Gropius.... Also that Alma, holding the estate, had the "realisation" (by Deryck Cooke) banned in 1960, relenting just before she died, in 1964. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 256 Registered: Feb-04 | John A. I knew I could count on you for some good recommendations. Thanks. The Purcell disc of St. Cecilia odes I have features Andrew Parrot and the Taverner Players. I'm now trying to balance my listening habits. I've been going a little too heavy on the Mahler lately. My girlfriend says I've got a bad case of Mahleria. It seems to be contagious. Sounds like Ghia has it and now you of all people may have come down with it. Nevertheless I eagerly await your review of the Rattle disc. His version of the Second is stellar by the way. I wonder is it's available in DVD-A or SACD. I just picked up Bach's oboe concertos (Naxos), which I highly recommend. They have been favorites of mine ever since I picked up the Archiv LP back in college, which somehow disappeared from my collection years ago. I've been looking for a replacement since. I think it may be out of print. But the Naxos disc is excellent. No complaints here. |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 169 Registered: Feb-04 | 2c, if I had recently heard MTT/SFSO perform M2, I'd have a bad case of Mahleria too. Fortunately, my wife loves Mahler, and we share a passion for Shostakovich as well. (The fourth movement of the Shos. 5th is "our song.") I agree the Rattle/Birmingham M2 is extraordinary, and as I've said before contains some of the most precise large orchestra playing I've heard. Is this one set of tempi we can both agree on? I quote from the liner notes of (Denon's) Mahler 10, Inbal/Radio-Sinfonie-Orchester Frankfurt: "On the instigation of Alma, the first and third movements of the work were first performed on 12 October 1924 at the Vienna National Opera House by the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra under the direction of Franz Schalk. Immediately before the premiere, Mahler's own manuscript of the whole work was published in facsimile. (The full score of the two movements published in 1951 was based on the score employed at the premieres.) Although the work had not been published in its entirety, interest was stimulated by publication of Mahler's own manuscript, and the conditions were in place for other musicians to add to and complete the work. But the Na>i era soon dawned and Mahler's music fell into eclipse." John, doesn't that last point put a little hole in your "Mahler is backward compatible to Wagner theory?" I have to agree with 2c's earlier point, Mahler was a Jew, was harassed his whole life because of it, and it is highly unlikely he bought into the Ar^an superhuman poppycock. And if Mahler appears to be contemplating his greatness in his portaits, maybe it's because he had some to contemplate. In any case, a candid shot of him and freunde at the corner pub was impossible as he had no use for alcohol at all. I feel an immersion into the life and music of Henry Purcell coming on, and it's all your fault. Please note that the words Ary*n and Naz* are not permitted here. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1715 Registered: Dec-03 | 2c, JOHN S. I agree so completely. "A bad case of Mahleria" L&LOL... JOHN S, thank you for that. As we have discussed before, I do think Mahler was one of the greatest orchestrators and composers of the turn of the 19th C. Certainly there seems to be none of the rabid views of Wagner and Brucker, and when Alma took up with Schoenberg she went from one of the greats to .... well, another time. I always try to dissociate the music from the man wherever possible, "Amadeus" was so good on that, and hero-worship was part of the problem with the C19th romantic world-view. Never mind, the world is now safe, thanks to the vigilance censors of internet forums and bulletin boards. Clearly, it can never happen again... I am afraid I have not even got warmed up on Purcell. 2c, I have that Parrott version, no words can do it justice (plug EMI CDC 7 47490 2), if anyone does not get that "St Cecilia ode" they should listen, harder. It is about MUSIC. (St Cecilia is the patron saint of .... oh, well, explaining things sometimes takes away the magic). BTW Andrew Parrot is to Anthony Rooley as Mahler to Gropius, except he's still around, thank goodness. I miss out the very famous name linking them; I doubt if she's really an Alma, anyway. Cherchez la femme. Parrott gave "'Tis Nature's Voice" to an amazing high tenor called Covey-Crump. That is where I cave in and cannot separate Purcell from his music; they are both the greatest, imho. Just imagine any two-bit pop star today being able to do that. The nearest I can think of is Bing Crosby doing "Now you has jazz" with Louis Armstrong in "High Society", and surely you will agree it falls a bit short. Songs about music. That could make another thread. Look, I stop being coherent at this point. Please excuse. Just scroll up to my posts of July 06. Then, Purcell, addressing St Cecilia:- In vain the amorous flute and soft guitar Jointly labour to inspire Wanton heat and loose desire Whilst thy chaste airs do gently move Seraphic flames and heavenly love. Cool, or what? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1716 Registered: Dec-03 | PS will report back, here, on the Rattle Mahler 10, maybe at the weekend, when I should have some time to listen. I think EMI makes DVD-A discs as they should be made: double-sided. If you want hi-res multichannel DVD-A, it is going to take a whole side. I cannot see why they don't all do that, instead of decreasing the resolution in order to cram in DVD-V with DVD-A on one side, making space for nothing more than a label on the other. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1717 Registered: Dec-03 | JOHN S, Yes, I take your point about Mahler. It is not a bad rule of thumb that when dictators take the trouble to ban things there is probably something interesting going on. But it is not an infallible guide. I don't think Mr Hitler thought Mahler was actually dangerous, he was just doing his daily, routine ethnic cleansing, making a nice, clean tidy, Ar*an Fatherland, run by mindless thugs. The many clever and talented Germans were (still are) embarrassed as heck about that. Brilliant play/DVD on this: Copenhagen (2002) (TV). Now, Stalin and Shostakovich, there's a case.... |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 449 Registered: Feb-04 | John S "I've listened to the new DK album (Girl in the other room) and I won't say a word until and if you are ready to discuss it." Well I had a bit of a listen and was mildly disappointed. Nothing on this recording to tempt me - a 5 out of 10. Damn Shame! All - a couple of recommendations and one to toss! I once had an LP of the Doobie Brother's "The Captain and Me" in fact everyone I knew had it. Got it on DVD-A the other day and I can't stop putting it on and turning it up. I hear instruments I can't recall were ever there. It was always an old favourite, now it's a new one - wonderful band, wonderful song list, wonderful recording! Bought a Sting SACD and got stung! Hadn't bought a Sting recording since The Police - won't be buying another ugh yeck! Just a mass of arty farty (got away with farty!) noise. Young pommie Jamie Cullen is a surprise. His debut "24 Something" jazz SACD is quite good. For a 24 year old that can't read music he plays the piano astonishingly well. Singing In The Rain never sounded so good - come on, you gotta admit Gene's version was a bit pretty! And Hendrix's "Wind Cries Mary" was great also. DVD-A or SACD? As far as I'm concerned they are both wonderful. Music is alive again! |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 809 Registered: Dec-03 | hey rantz "I once had an LP of the Doobie Brother's "The Captain and Me" in fact everyone I knew had it. Got it on DVD-A the other day and I can't stop putting it on and turning it up. I hear instruments I can't recall were ever there. It was always an old favourite, now it's a new one - wonderful band, wonderful song list, wonderful recording! " i agree i recently picked that up also and it's very good. and i'm not sure if it was you or 2 cents that keeps raving about neil young "greendale" but i finally got to listen the other day and i love the sound of that disk! good jammin music! |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 450 Registered: Feb-04 | Kegger Yes, "Greendale" is still my favourite hi-res disc. The more you listen . . . Here's a good link for hi-res music: http://www.hifidelityreview.com Cheers |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 451 Registered: Feb-04 | OOPS! Sorry that should be: http://www.highfidelityreview.com |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 811 Registered: Dec-03 | allright cool thanks that's awsome. i was trying the other link every which way but loose. but i felt like a monkey but fudging a football. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 205 Registered: Apr-04 | JohnA, I look forward to your take on Rattle/Mahler 10. That might be one to add to my list too. 2C Yes, I believe I'm afflicted with Mahleria, too. The MTT/SFSO SACD recording came in today so I'll be busy with some listening this weekend too. And, I've got a Mahler biography in my Amazon shopping cart - just need to send 'em some money. MR, Does the Doobie Bros disc have a good surround mix or is the improvement in the hi-resolution? I wonder about some of the older recordings that have been remixed. I have a Wings DVD-DTS and I really don't care for the surround mix of it. But, if you and Kegger both like it, it must be worth a try. Kegger, Got the replacement Beck DVD-A. Love it! I believe Elliot Scheiner is setting THE standard for how rock/pop surround mixes should be done. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 452 Registered: Feb-04 | Ghia, I think the surround mix for "The Captain And Me" is excellent, both that and the hi-res format seem to make the Doobie Brothers pump it out like never before. If you like them you'll like the DVD-A! |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 173 Registered: Mar-04 | MR/Kegger, Although there has been some talk of Greendale in the past, I've given it only a passing glance, despite rather liking Neil Young. The renewed discussion finally took me to http://www.hifidelityreview.com which piqued my interest. I wandered over to amazon.com and listened to some samples and I liked what I heard. Young has gone through many interesting permutations over the years but this style sounds more like his earlier Harvest (and newer Harvest Moon), works, which I consider among my favorites. It has been added to my short list. Thanks. Ghia, "I believe Elliot Scheiner is setting THE standard for how rock/pop surround mixes should be done." How true!! His work can be seen all over the new surround/hi-rez discs out there. And I haven't heard a bad one yet. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 257 Registered: Feb-04 | John S. I agree with you regarding Rattle's tempi for the Resurrection. I also believe that there is no single correct version of a classical piece. That is one of the beauties of music. An individual artist can bring something new to an old familiar work. For example, I love Schiff's interpretation of Bach. I love Gould's interpretation even more. Gould chooses perverse tempi, truly outlandish sometimes. However, his playing is such that the line of the music is never lost; it all hangs together, but takes on a new shape. In the process, he makes you hear things in the music that you never heard before. I think Bernstein and MTT take a similar approach to Mahler and for the most part are successful. When you get a chance to listen to MTT's 2nd, it's going to be a different animal from Rattle's. In my world, there's enough room for both of them to be considered great. Ghia, I believe in a previous post, you mentioned ordering Mahler's 6th. That will be a true test of whether you've been afflicted with Mahleria. It's a difficult (and looooong) work to sit through. After listening to it recently, I felt physically exhausted as if I had biked a century. It's the good kind of exhaustion... Sem/MR/Kegger, I think Neil is backed up by Crazy Horse on "Greendale", which is usually a winning combination. Neil has a large property in Marin where the closest neighbor is about half a mile away. I've heard that when he jams with friends, the city still gets noise complaints. I wonder what kind of amps and speakers they use. I'm fairly sure Neil's amp goes up to 11. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 258 Registered: Feb-04 | Is anyone going to take the plunge into Elliot Scheiner's other great surround mix--The Flaming Lips' "Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots" DVD-A? C'mon guys, it'll really show off your surround system. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 453 Registered: Feb-04 | Two Cents The Flaming Lips sound scary to me - especially the title - I'm getting old you know!. I'll have to have a listen on the 'net. The last recording I bought without a first listen was the Sting SACD. I never usually do that, but I never will again. Gawd, that one was crap! Sem, I'm sure you'll like Greendale - apart from great music and sound, every song is a chapter of a story - really, it's the music. Don't be stingy with the sub |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 454 Registered: Feb-04 | 2C Okay, I had a listen to samples of YBTPR by TFL's on Amazon. I'll be looking out for it. I like the style -shades of Pink Floyd - and seems as if it will be very good for surround. Thanks for the tip! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1720 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks for all the tips and recommendatons. My main recent dip into rock was "the Last Waltz" and I thought Neil Young was not so impressive as the rest (except maybe Ringo Starr, but he was there with a cameo part), but maybe he had an off-night. "I believe Elliot Scheiner is setting THE standard for how rock/pop surround mixes should be done." So, what does he do...? 2c, I agree completely about Glenn Gould's Bach proving that different interpretations are part of the fun. He breaks all the rules, even plays it on a piano (shock), but he has this tenacious grip on phrasing that surely comes closer to what Bach had in mind than so many of the jangley harpsichord players (Beecham; "like two skeletons copulating in a cupboard"). As an early music guy (you will tell from the stuff about Purcell) I should not be saying this, but it is there to hear. I am very much enjoying this genre-free zone. I can maybe fit in Rattle/Berlin Phil) Mahler 10 later today. I enjoyed that review of "Greendale", MR; I will look out for that one. It says, about "Falling from Above": The imaging of the four stereo pairs works together in perfectly balanced unison to recreate a stark yet perceptively realistic environment. Of special mention is the spectacular vocal imaging, anchored fully front-and-center stage. At first I thought that they had done a remarkable job with the center channel, until I realized there isn't a center channel! In fact, the entire recording lacks a center channel and is, in essence, a quadraphonic recording reinforced with the LFE (subwoofer) channel. This is what I hear, too, on the "classical" recordings I like best, as recordings. |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 174 Registered: Mar-04 | John A, all, "I believe Elliot Scheiner is setting THE standard for how rock/pop surround mixes should be done." So, what does he do.. I tried to find an all-inclusive listing of surround projects he has been involved in, but no luck. If anyone comes up with a site listing this I'd be very much interested in it. However, one just has to do a "google" search on his name to find he "is one of the most successful engineer/producers in the world today. With 16 Grammy nominations and five awards, Scheiner has worked with such artists as Beck, Faith Hill, Steely Dan, Ricky Martin, Sting, Bruce Hornsby, The Eagles, B.B. King, Van Morrison, Fleetwood Mac and Aerosmith. He is also a leading authority on 5.1 mixing and DVD-Audio." These are a few, he also did the surround mix for Porcupine Tree's "In Absentia" - a band with a unique sound though often remind me of Pink Floyd. They often use many of the same recording "tricks" that can be found on Floyd albums such as layered vocals, dark lyrics, and cool sound effects, (without going overboard). If you're into Floyd check them out, I can give recommendations. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 138 Registered: Dec-03 | If you like the Flaming Lips or Mercury Rev, I recommend listening to the Polyphonic Spree. If you like Pink Floyd's albums made with Barrett, I reccomend listening to the Beta Band. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1723 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, Many thanks. I am very tempted by Greendale, especially, but I will look out for these recommendations, too. Any Mahleriacs reading, I have just listened to the Rattle/Berlin Phiharmonic EMI DVD-A of Mahler's 10th Symphony, in DVD-A 5.1. This is the first time I have ever heard this symphony, though it has some famous bits I have read about or heard about somewhere. Recording. Extraordinary. Anyone who doubts the superiority of DVD-A, or thinks, still, that "real music always sounds better in stereo" should listen to this. There is no sense of anything happening behind you. You are very close to a very large and beautiful orchestra playing in a huge space, which I imagine is exactly what the Berlin Philharmonie is. It is live recording, so you hear the occasional muffled cough, and a bit of foot-shuffling, expecially at the beginning; I like that. You are so close to the orchestra you can hear them all inhale, together, just before loud bits. The sound of the instruments is so vivid it is startling. What I think the 5.1 does, is to create a definite sense that you can hear how far away each player is: strings closest; woodwind and brass behind them, percussion behind them, and at the side. Stereo just does not do that. The only sense of hearing reverberations is with the chilling "hammer blows" on the bass drum (?) in the last movement, and the hall seems like it could probably accommdate a fleet of Boeing 747s. At various points there is a sustained, solo, high trumpet sort of soaring, suspended over everything, it is so realistic; you can hear exactly where the guy is, and how far away (about 20 ft, it seems), also the very small amount of vibrato he uses to put a shine on the note. The strings seem so real, and so close, it is uncanny. Tip: don't be afraid to have it on your loudest usable volume setting. The last EMI DVD-A I played was so loud I started this one 3 dB down from my usual orchestral setting (displayed +9 dB; don't ask, it is totally dependent on the system and the room), and I wanted to turn it back up again, even a bit higher, by the last movement. Not that there is not some stuff that will blow you out of your chair, but it is predominantly a fairly low-volume performance, with all the interest in the subtleties of tone colours etc. Music I shall listen a couple more times. My first impression is that this is definitely Mahler, as I know him, "realisation" or not: great swings in dynamics, rapid changes of tempo; lots of sort of "fooled you!" unresolved cadences where you are expecting a nice resolution, and, instead, you get some new theme introduced. Personally, I get bored, eventually, by being surprised. It is tonal, very nice, but a lot of what are quite conventional harmonies seem to be spread over about five or more octaves. Maybe I am just a boring and conventional listener who likes a beginning, a middle, and an end. I was looking forward to the end of the Finale - my expectations based on other Mahler symphonies was that it would probably be a long time coming, and eventually take out the electricity supply; I should leave the volume down, just in case. In fact, I just thought "Yes, very nice; but is that really the end...?" I will give it another go. As I said, this is my first hearing of Mahler 10. Skillful orchestration, great dramatic effects, very fine repetition of recognisable motifs from earlier in the symphony (the sustained trumpet diminuendo comes back on flute, and you think "Cool!"). In the end I enjoyed it, but thought "well where was that going, exactly; what was he trying to say?" Curiously unsatisfying. Perhaps I've got to sort of "take him to my heart" as some of you guys seem to have done, and then it will fall into place. Perhaps it is just unfamiliarity. I admire Mahler, but he still seems a bit of an odd-ball, frankly. But if you are into Mahler, this surely is a serious DVD-A. Perhaps I was distracted by how detailed and spacious the sound was, and no-one seems to reproach Rattle for interpretation. So it is probably me. I guess am just a Mahler philistine. BTW the recording engineers did tremendous job. Center channel used, but you are not aware of it. Maybe my nerdiness combined with the vividness of the sound made me wonder too often what sort of shoes the violinists at the front were wearing (seemed to be listening about level with the platform), what the grain and varnish looked like on the viola I could surely reach out and touch, and whether Rattle would have been obstructing my view of the orchestra, or he was just behind, and would have crushed me and other members of the audience if he'd slipped off the podium. Maybe sound can be too realistic.......? What a subversive thought. Maybe I should have a few beers or something before listening next time (this was in the afternoon). Hope that helps, and isn't too much about me. I mostly dislike professional critics, they seem to enjoy writing about themselves. There's not much you can say about music, really.... |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 259 Registered: Feb-04 | John A. What a wonderful review of the Rattle disc! It makes me want to visit Berlin to attend a live performance. The hall itself is supposed to be spectacular architecturally and acoustically. It was designed by Hans Scharoun and is the inspiration for Frank Gehry's new Disney Hall in LA. A couple of questions: Does Rattle split the violins to the left and right? Is it the Cooke transcription of the symphony? As far as Mahler's music, I understand how it could frustrate listeners. There is a certain messy, over-the-top quality to Mahler. Sometimes the music seems to wander to unexpected places and from a conventional viewpoint, one could ask 'what's the point' to the discursive forays. I think his music embodies the uncertainty, messiness, and anxiety of the modern world and modern life. I think perhaps that a tidy work with a clear beginning, middle and end (a clear resolution) would seem disingenous to him. Life isn't like that. His world wasn't like that. Our world isn't like that. I think he was trying to extend an 18th or 19th century medium (the symphony) into the 20th century. I'm not sure if he entirely succeeds, but he ended up being a bridge between romantics like Beethoven and true modernists like Schoenberg (yes, more on him later). Next time you listen, by all means have a few beers. Don't focus too much on the music (or the musicians' shoes). Think about the horrors of life, the beauty of life and how one can follow immediately after the other. And ask yourself, Is life just a joke? Is this what Mahler is telling us? (BTW, you can ask the same question listening to late Beethoven or Schostakovich.) At the end of the day if you still don't like Mahler, that's just the way it is. As they say in Bavaria, different strokes for different folks. |
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Unregistered guest | What an interesting comment: "not much you can say about music," John. After all you've written on these forums (and I suspect elsewhere, as well) I find it hard to believe that you wrote that. There is a whole "universe" of things to say about music - and part of the (to use a trite word) "fun" in music-listening is in the discussion that precedes or follows a performance or recording. Whole volumes have been written about little more than the term: "allegro," for example. No, sorry, I can't agree with that statement - though I'm in hearty agreement with much that I've read from you since I first accessed this forum just this week. Indeed, sir, I find you and several of your colleagues to be leagues ahead of me in knowledge - which is why, in the end, I return to this forum time after time. As to Mahler - ah, you've opened a proverbial can of worms there. First, in your references to the Mahler 10th - you appear quite confused. Sir, believe me, you are not alone here! I've been in on several Mahler discussions that lasted through the night - and left everybody scratching their heads in wonder and confusion. The 10th, of course, is long after Mahler lost his hopefulness, and began focusing on death and all its meanings. Thus, the wavering between what might appear to be small rays of hope and the lurid, dark realms of the other side of the river Styx - Mahler's great fear and obsession. For me, the first six of Mahler's symphonies leave me with a buoyed-up feeling, and it is these to which I gravitate in my listening. My latest is Benjamin Zander with the Philharmonia Orchestra - it's on one of those "evil" hybrid SACDs, however - so you may eschew it just for that reason! GRIN I'm reading, and digesting, that which I find most fascinating on these forums of yours - and I hope to humbly add a note or two here and there from my retirement-post in Naples, Florida. I believe I'm addressing people in England and on the Continent - perhaps Australia as well? Wonderful! I desperately need some other-nation sanity here! My homeland may have its virtues, but it sadly lacks a solid underpinning of culture in its best form. Nice for some to have such symbols as long-neck beer and pickup trucks, I guess, but please, please find for me kindred spirits to keep alive Oratorios, Concertos and Opera! Whew! Sorry - off the soapbox. Carry on - with my blessing! |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 260 Registered: Feb-04 | Larry R. Welcome to the forum! I look forward to reading your posts. If you haven't guessed already, everything goes here (except for words that are censored by the Administrator). |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1725 Registered: Dec-03 | 2c, Larry, Many thanks. I will write a reply. I just came back to say I have now listened to the Finale a second time, with the gain up to +10 dB (compared with +6 dB last time), and a glass of beer. Much more involving, interesting. I am sure it will grow on me. It is still such a weird ending I wonder if the Deryck Cooke (yes, 2c) got the movements in the wrong order. Surely Mahler didn't intend it to go out like that? This is an amazing DVD-A. The sound is immense, spacious, my overwhelming impression is the proximity of the orchestra itself; what fantasic control, virtuousity. You can hear where they all are. It is almost embarrassing to be so close to them; I want to look away in case I make eye contact, and put someone off. Perhaps that gets between me and the music. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1726 Registered: Dec-03 | Larry, Thank you so much. Yes, I was just beginning to compare No.10 with the earlier symphonies; what a contrast. Must go leave right now. Will be back. As 2c says: welcome! |
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Unregistered guest | Two Cents and John A. - thank you for welcoming comments - I feel like I may have found a home-away-from-home, musically speaking. It is very hard to find kindred spirits here in my part of Amerika, for as you must know, getting "in" anywhere takes time and patience. Having moved here from Sedona, Arizona, about 18 months ago, we're still "out," as it were. I must admit, before I wax eloquent about SACD, I do not yet have a player: I rely on the kindness of a friend, who recently "built" a rather incredible sound system, and who spends May through October "up Nawth" at his Philadelphia home. Thus, I have the run of his house - and system. Can I say "whoopeeee!" on this forum? Hmmm. . . My humble system gives me marginal sound - but as I'm a victim of severe dental abuse these days - e.g. three crowns and one root canal - upgrading is not part of the picture. Meanwhile, I scoot over to my friend's house for a "fix" once in awhile - and make myself believe that the music, not the reproduction, is key. Sorta (that's a good Florrid-Uh! word) like the on-going argument I'm having with an opera-loving friend out West. I claim (having excellent relative pitch) that off-key singing destroys a performance. He claims to be able to "rise above" that - to enjoy the performance, sharps and flats be dimmed. (can I say that?) GRIN I've always thought (secretly) that he just can't hear the difference!?! I'll be looking forward to hours and paragraphs more from y'all (see, another regional weakness!) on these forums. And - I'm glad to be here on occasion! |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 821 Registered: Dec-03 | 2 cents! "Is anyone going to take the plunge into Elliot Scheiner's other great surround mix--The Flaming Lips' "Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robot" i will try it when i see it next! |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 460 Registered: Feb-04 | Okay, just ordered The Flaming Lips' "Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robot" - better be good 2C [grin] - and also Steely Dan's "Everything Must Go" DVD-A's. I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever buy another redbook cd? I'm starting a thread so we can all rate our hi-res purchases only thereby giving interested parties an idea of who likes what etc. Tastes vary for sure, but should be interesting and hopefully helpful as well. Please join in guys and gals. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 463 Registered: Feb-04 | Please find the thread: "Rate your Hi-res discs here!" under DVD-audio and SACD. I put there because it seems only a few know this music thread exists and doesn't show on the Home Audio board directory. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 262 Registered: Feb-04 | M.R. and Kegger, All right!!! You're in for a tasty sonic treat--"Yoshimi" has the most exciting surround mix known to man and beast. (MR-Great new thread. I added my 2 cents worth. Of course, Beck and The Flaming Lips are on the top of my list.) |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 466 Registered: Feb-04 | 2C Looking forward to it, thanks! |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 206 Registered: Apr-04 | LarryR, Welcome! I'm fairly new to this board myself and enjoy the company and knowledge sharing immensely. I will point out that, despite my newness, the threads I start seem to be the longest and most interesting (at least once everyone else starts sharing their thoughts, experiences...) hehehe... You made an interesting statement about Mahler's first 6 symphonies giving you a buoyed-up feeling. Being new to Mahler and classical music, I'm not much of an expert and cannot offer comparative views between symphonies and different versions but, I agree completely with the "buoyed-up" perspective. So far, I have only heard Mahler's 4th and 5th but just got the MTT/SFSO SACD's of 1, 4 and 6. BTW, I have Zanders SACD of the 5th, too and believe I prefer it to Bernstein's version - except for the Adagietto. JohnA, Thanks for the Rattle/M10 review! As I continue to be a student of this "new to me" genre of music, I hope to one day be as eloquent and fluent in my experience of and analysis of these pieces as you, 2c, JohnS, and others whom I've regrettably overlooked. One thing is for certain....I've got to get out and experience this music live. After hearing LarryR and 2C's comments of the difference in Mahler's 1-6 symphonies compared to the later ones, specifically 10, my strategy now is to get intimately acquainted with the earlier ones before listening to M10. Still, I'll put the Rattle/M10 on my birthday list. 2C, I have not yet "sat down" to listen to the MTT/SFSO discs yet. The other night I had M6 playing while preparing dinner. Hopefully, I'll get to sit down over the next few evenings and give it and the others a serious listen. Had planned to do this all weekend but, for the first time this summer, we've had a break in the humidity and I'm going to spend some time outside! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1735 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghia, Well said. Mahler is "new to me", too. One of the pleasures of recorded music is being able to explore new things, being able to overcome one's own complacent attitudes. I have liked certain sorts of music for years, but had sort of got stuck in rut. I would not have thought of listening to Mahler or Bruckner symphonies until a couple of years ago, when I got them seriously laid on me by a friend who said something like "you will never understand Germany until you know these symphonies". I would never have gone near Shostakovich, either, but the "Jazz Suites" was one of the very few DVD-As I happened to see late last year, and I bought it just because of the format. I discovered the guy had a sense of humour; about the last thing I expected. There is always something to learn. This forum, and the generous people posting on the sorts of threads you have started, have been a real stimulus to listen to something new. Many thanks! |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 207 Registered: Apr-04 | JohnA, You wrote: " I admire Mahler, but he still seems a bit of an odd-ball, frankly. " This may be part of the reason why his compositions appeal to me. If Mahler had been born in the early 1960's and was a singer-songwriter instead of a composer, I believe his peers would be artists such as Aimee Mann, Elliott Smith, and Beck. These artists write brilliant music filled with beautiful melodies with honest, perceptive lyrics that perfectly articulate experiences and feelings for me. I think "yes, that's exactly how I feel and it's exactly what I would say if only I had an ounce of talent!" But, despite this gift of articulation. these artists are outside of the "mainstream" (perphaps because they don't sell millions of records - or, are they are "too honest" and don't indulge in the shallowness and superficialness of the mainstream?). And, by mainstream definition, some of these folks would also be considered "oddball" and, by association, so would I because I identify so intensely with what they have to say. Mahler's symphonies are filled with peaks and valleys and are, to me, an exhilerating ride. I hear the pathos but I also hear joy and hope. When I listen to Mahler there is a visceral experience that I haven't experienced with other composers, except for Beethoven. Is that Mahler speaking to the oddball in me? Perhaps so. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 208 Registered: Apr-04 | JohnA, You are right about this forum being a stimulus to listen to something new. If I were disciplined enough to generate reports on how my money has been spent since finding this forum, that would lend exceptional credence to your point too! lol There have been several references to Shostakovich on the forum that have piqued my interest. Another realization about discovering some of this "new" music as well as reading some of the "debates" about the influence of the composers and/or compositions is I have a lot to learn about history. - I hope that sentence makes sense to someone else as it mystifies me - At the very least, I will be learning about history in a different context than that taught to me in public schools. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 209 Registered: Apr-04 | 2C and Sem, I didn't realize Scheiner had mixed The Flaming Lips. This has now become a "must get". Scheiner is the first sound mixer to influence my buying decision. How funny is that? Hopefully, the music will speak to me, too. MR, I'm anxious to hear your take on TFL. JohnA. Sem provided good background information about Elliot Scheiner. What I would say about him is that his mix of Beck's "Sea Change" DVD-A allows you to get totally immersed in the music. The mix is definitely "present" but you are so immersed in the music that you often don't notice it. The music itself is mostly responsible for the "immersion". However, having heard the redbook CD and then the DVD-A, it is unbelievable how different the listening experience is between the two. And, this is one instance where I have a clear preference for multichannel over stereo. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 210 Registered: Apr-04 | This post may seem like a "digression" (to quote MR) but actually, it is about a discovery so, I believe it is still on topic. Sorta. Anyway, on my last trip to the farmer's market, I tried out some heirloom tomatoes called Cherokee Purple. Let me say, these are the DVD-A/SACD of the tomato world! Meaty, juicy sweet! I shared half of one with a cohort at lunch yesterday and he considered it to be the best tomato he's ever had. :-) Now, I can't guarantee it would be as close to perfect if it's not grown in NC soil but it may be something to seek out. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1736 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghia, Many thanks. Beck's "Sea change" is on my list now with Young's "Greendale". I still don't know what it is with me and Mahler. I've probably said more than i can sensibly say already. Somehow he seems afraid of doing or saying the obvious. There is a sort of beauty in Beethoven and Mozart where, at the end, it seems that is the way it had to be, plus a few Easter eggs thrown in you maybe weren't expecting. Even Brahms (I felt once about him as I do now about Mahler) seems to have a kind of generosity in finally delivering the big tune you felt, all the way through, was promised. He's got something to say, and, in the end, he just says it. Mahler seems obsessed in case anyone should think there is any sort of cliché in there. Brahms sort of says "OK; you knew this was coming; I am just telling it, now, like I know it is". Beethoven delivers what would be clichés for lesser composers, but you sort of see the obvious, but in a new way, so there is nothing at all tired or predictable (the quartets are like that, every single one; I personally never tire of them and hear something new every time I listen). These guys all had unhappy lives. But there seems not a hint of self-consciousness, or, worse, self-pity, anywhere in Beethoven, for example. He was stone deaf and almost in despair when he wrote the 9th Symphony, but, my word, how that delivers the goods - exhuberant, optimistic, about a shared humanity and fellow-feeling that must have eluded him, but he knew was possible, and he wanted others to feel they could aspire to themselves. End of pretentious ramble. As I said, there is not much you can actually say about music. I do think that is largely correct. Only technical things about which instruments are playing and so on. How it affects you is personal, and you end up writing about yourself. |