DVI vs RGB for HDTV
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| The output displayed from either RGB or DVI is the same (480p, 720p, & 1080i). So is there an advantage one has over the other? What exactly is DVI? All I know is it offers uncompressed video to the TV and something about copyright protection. What does that mean to the consumer? |
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| It's not nessesary to have it this moment in time. If you want info on it I suggest this link to Dell's article on the Digital Visual Interface: http://www.dell.com/us/en/arm/topics/vectors_2000-dvi.htm Also here's an interview I found: First, there is no qualitative difference between the signal quality of the broadcast signal and the compressed digital bitstream on the IEEE 1394 connection. They are technically identical. There is no qualitative difference between the DVI and analog video output -- they can both be full HD quality signals without degradation." "At some point, if we were to run the DVI and analog cables for a long distance the analog component video cables would be more susceptible to interference and noise. However, this tends to be a moot point, since the maximum length of a DVI cable is 3 meters." These comments are on page 24 of the July 2002 issue. I have yet to see any engineer or professional challenge his technical statements (and they most certainly would, if he was in error). This excellent article debunks many of the DVI myths, and makes a clear case that DVI is the best friend for the content providers (television studios, film studios, distribution companies, cable companies, satellite companies, and the rest). It also makes it quite clear that DVI is the consumer's worst enemy, as it will (probably) do an end-run around the Supreme Court decision of the 1980s, and let Disney and all of the others have what they wanted in the infamous Betamax case -- an elimination of home taping or recording, and a movement toward "pay per view" and a "video jukebox" standard for film, television, broadcast, cable, satellite, etc. I used to groan everytime I would read on one of these forums that "DVI is uncompressed, so it will look better!" Now, I just sadly laugh. DVI will do you no good, today. Every product sold with a DVI connector does make Disney a bit happier, and Viacom a bit happier, and Paramount a bit happier, and Jack Valenti a bit happier, and Fox a bit happier. They want this to become the standard. That is why they "declared" that it would be the standard. Do you need it? No. Do you want it? "Uh, no, not really, but gee, I am so, so afraid that I might be 'left behind,' I guess that I will buy mine as an insurance policy, and surely my one leetle-old set is not really going to make any difference in the long run, now really... is it?" These same content providers told us DIVX was going to be the standard. They had an agenda. The consumer voted, and (fortunately) won. These same content providers told us DAT was going to be the standard. They had an agenda. The consumer voted, and (fortunately) won. However, the consumer also makes mistakes... often through fear. VHS won over Beta. Don't be afraid. |
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ShawnA | I just purchased a 50 inch Sony Grad Wega LCD projection TV. It has DVI input but there is no RGB input. I had a Panasonic LCD prjection TV that has RGB input and boy it was so much fun to video games PC games by hooking up a PC. I also used it as a 40 inch picture frame by displaying screen saver pictures from my PC Is there a way to add RGB input capability to this Sony XBR 800? |
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| Is a DVI signal better than a componant signal? I have a new 42" Plasma TV that can use both. I don't really care about copying digital media, I just want the best possible signal to video editing. Thanks, Sabbath |
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Anonymous | Robert, I am interested in the interview you referenced on pg. 24 of July 02. Could you please let me know where/how I can find the article in its entirety? Thanks |
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| HELP any body The HDCP (in)i n the back of the KF-50xbr800 tv, has any body used this to attach to their HDTV Decoder/reciever?? with HDCP??i have a zentih SAT520 and will this let me view OTH/Cable HDTV? Thanks all |
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Bridgebai | Does anyone know how to hook up a computer directly to an HDTV using the DVI input on the TV? I heard that the DVI on the TV's are different from the DVI's on the computers. Is this true and if so does anyone make a vid card that has a TV DVI output? |
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| If a STB has HD15 & DVI/HDCP output, and the RPTV has DVI HD15 and component inputs, is the set going to be rendered useless in the near future? How long before HDCP is going to be the standard, and will it primarily be for PPV use? Will the STB still output the 480p? Why is an HD15 output referenced in literature as DVI? |
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Billy Jack | Being an HDTV buff and PC Engineer, and through experience I offer this. To keep it simple Both DVI and Component Video offer extremely high resolution capabilities and neither has yet become a definate superior to the other. DVI is newer but it has been adopted as a standard. It is here to stay. There are however different types of DVI, such as DVI-I DVI-D and DVI-A(uncommon) as well DVI-I and -D come in single and Dual Channel varieties. Dual channel carries twice the bandwidth of single channel. Quickly -I which carries both Digitaland analog, -D digital only signal, -A(rare) analog only signals, which is why it is rare, why use this Digital connector for analog signals(Never buy a -A unless specifically you need it) A single channel is capable of resolutions up to 1280x 1024 and most current Plasma displas, LCD and Projectors fall within this diplay realm. In the future higher resolution devices will require the dual channel. For the same price at most places you can get a DVI-I dual channel as a single channel DVI-D. My advise buy the dual channel cable when needed. I have a home theater projector with both DVI and Component video connectors. I have compared the two and can not make out any distinguishable difference. One very important factor to remember is that only HDTV signal takes real advantage of these different connections, While DVD players commonly have component connectors, DVDs do not have the picture quality to push either to the point where you can distinguish between the two. My suggestion is to get both DVI and Cpomponent connections and see for yourself, only I will tell you quality cables can make all the difference. Words of Wisdom do no ttbuy cheap cables! |
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Nick Kolesar | Billy Jack, Great post. I too am looking to hook my PC up to my HDTV but not sure If I go DVI or COMPONENT VID cables. You say it really does not matter in this case. however, if I were to try to run higher resolutions above 1280x1024, will it still not make a diff? Just really trying to understand what one is better clarity purposes. |
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| Using DVI cables for projectors, HDTV and plasma TVs are far better than using RGB cables. Also, DVI can be extended upto 1600 feet using Fiber optic technology. To learn more, visit www.dtronicsinc.com |
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Sean Blumenthal | Robert, great info! Too bad several posters below your post appear to have shot their mouths off and completely contridicted you. I not only agree with your sentiments about DVI and Component looking identical for HD content, but I appreciated the froum-style "footnotes" in your post. Rock on! |
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Anonymous | Y'all seem to have sidestepped the DVI w/ HDCP versus DVI w/o HDCP issue. If your TV doesn't support DVI/HDCP and your HDTV tuner has it, you're screwed, near as I can tell. Cheers, Dave |
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| Hey, how 'bout component vs RGB? Anyone ever copaired the two? I've heard that RGB does look a bit better, which makes sense, considering it is straight, uncompressed, whereas component is altered for bandwidth issues. Not that it will ever really matter at this point since component is used for HDTV and DVD. Anyone care to share knowledge or opinion? |
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Derek | Try these three links. http://links.epanorama.net/links/videosignal.html http://www.faubel.org/hometheater.htm http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/ |
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| Thanks a gazillion for the links Derek. From what I've read here and elsewhere, I hame arrived at a couple conclusions, please tell me if they are correct. 1. RGB and color difference look the same. RGB is more straightforward, but color difference shows no loss in quality that the human eye can see when compared to RGB. 2. RGB and component can carry the exact same signals, from low-res interlaced video, to the highest-res progressive available; one is not more limited then the other. To tell you the truth, I don't want to believe that component is as good as straight RGB; RGB to me just seems cleaner. Every time I see a decription of the different video sources, RGB is always at the top, but then they say that color difference is essentially the same quality; its confusing. I assume its because the original "master copy" video is always RGB. So one final question; say you had a huge, high-res display, and you used a top quality color difference cable; DVI, component, whatever is the absolute best to hook up the video. You compare this against a top quality RGBHV cable using the same video source. Would you see any difference between the two? Hope this is clear enough. I know I'm being vague as far as describing the video source, but thats because I don't really know what video source would be used for a test like this. I assume it would be a computer capable of outputting either sigal. Any opinions? |
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| It seems that much of this will be moot soon since mitsubishi has recently had it's way and gotten firewire to be the standard for digital transfer of hdtv signals. Pioneer has already started developing dvd players and receivers that use the IEEE1394 standard. Stephen, Mits made a stand-alone HDTV tuner that had RGBHV outputs but they abandoned RGBHV. I don't think that component is the prefered method because of quality but because of convenience. Your DVD player is going to hook up that way, so give the tv one kind of input and you can use switching on the reciever and people are already confortable with RCAs and so on. By the way Mitsubishi's new stand-alone box will use component and firewire and will enable you to add NetCommand to any TV, but you didn't hear it from me.  |
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| Thanks for the info Miguel. I do remember seeing that Mitsubishi tuner with RGBHV out, which is a good feature, but to me component is fine for tuners since they decode a color difference signal anyway. Its the native RGB material I wish was available in RGB. But I guess I shouldn't complain; 1080i and 720p signals can be gotten off the air for free now, and if companies did things there own way with their own connections it would have taken years more. Wait...thats exactly what they are doing. But at least component via RCA3 is one standard that held everything together. Thanks again for the response. Stephen |
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Derek | RGB is the highest resolution I have seen so far (3200+ lines) and is very straightforward as far as driving displays are concerned. Most data-grade projectors with total pixel counts more than 4 times HDTV use RGB. Component appears to be a compatable color transmision meathod use on DVDs (I have heard DirecTV is component also). Component uses slightly less bandwidth but if you ask me it was a trick used by the manufacturers and movies studios to prevent us from figuring out a way to record the high bandwidth signal. It also seems to me that there are two potentially distorting conversion proccesses required to use component. Firewire uses compression. That is the only drawback I am aware of. Cables can be longer and 127 devices can be connected to the bus at once. In the end some form of Firewire will probably win. It will make connecting/daisy-chaining things together much easier. There's no reason encrypted data couldn't be sent over Firewire either. DVI has provisions for high resolution but I have not seen anything over 1600 line (H). This probably come from its computer roots as a data-only display meathod. DVI does not use compression but the new set-top boxes require display devices that identify themselves as display devices or you get a blank screen or lower resolution picture. I am sticking with my computer for several reasons; 1. Computers proccess video in RGB and have color spaces of up to 48 bits (of which 4 trillion can be displayed). 2. Software and a fast proccessor will always break encrytion (I copy and display DVDs all the time). 3. I have a Philips dislay that can already do REAL 2000+ horizontal resolution and it only cost me $169. How many people have actually seen a 1080i picture on a device that actually has a horizontal resolution of 1920 (not just a video preamp that can send the picture to the tube). Probably almost none. They are watching 1200 to 1300 lines and don't know it (go to www.barco.com). 4. There are about 5 companies that make HDTV tuner cards for PCs and they only cost $350 - and THEY RECORD! Telemann makes HDTV AND Satelite cards. 5. I have an ATI All-in-Wonder 8500DV (with firewire by the way) with the component video adapter and though component looks good, the RGB looks better on my Proscan. 6. The longer a signal stays in my PC the less likely chance I will have at distorting it and my media is much easier to get at. I can even play it on other computers in the house over the LAN and CD-RW. That's my 2 cents. Hope this help [more than confuse]. |
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Dave G | I have exactly the same question as was posted earlier in this thread. Does anyone know the answer? Bridgebai Friday, March 07, 2003 - 01:55 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does anyone know how to hook up a computer directly to an HDTV using the DVI input on the TV? I heard that the DVI on the TV's are different from the DVI's on the computers. Is this true and if so does anyone make a vid card that has a TV DVI output? |
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Anonymous | Dave G - http://www.ati.com/products/pc/hdtvadapter/faq.html |
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Hombre | Unfortunately DVI (on the HDTV) and DVI (on the video card) are different as explained above. You cannot make a direct connection that will work. You can use a converter such as made by AudioAuthority to change your VGA output to component RGB output, but will still need a software program like Powerstrip to extensively tweak the output at various resolutions. A purely integrated hardware component device (DVI to DVI conversion) technically should not be that hard to design but you are battling hardware controlled protection schemes by the Big Brothers of the video industry. I will let you guess who will win that one. The other reason is of course purely practical. The screen on your HDTV can be easily 'burned in' by prolonged exposure to a fixed screen, so extreme caution must be used if using such a screen to display a computer screen image. But again, it could be easily controlled electronically. Hope someone comes up with a simple solution in the future but battles over protection and standardization would need to be won. |
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Derek | Actually none of the newer TV will display from a computer unless the computer can generate the proper DVI copy protection sequence for the TV. I wouldn't waste my time. Buy the RCA VGA to Component adapter for $99. I have Dave G's ATI adapter and it does work but only with certain ATI cards so be carefull. ATI's All-in-Wonder 9700 Pro comes with S-Video, VGA, Component and DVI right out of the box. Hope this helps. |
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Hombre | You can also read a good summary of the protection/standardization issue at the following link: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_1/feature-article-digital-home-video-2-2002.html As is so often the case, the consumer will probably pretty much end up on the short end. |
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Sean Blumenthal | Derek, my Samsung HLN507W displays from my G4 with DVI without any issues. Maybe I misunderstood you? |
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Derek | Does your Samsung suport DVI copy protection? If it does then it seems the device producing the signal is the only barrier. |
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b jack | does it have fixed audio output |
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d_olson | I have connected my 17" LCD monitor to my computer using both the DVI and the component (VGA) video connections. The DVI connection is clearly superior. The VGA connection must convert from a digital image, to an analog signal, then back to digital again. During this process the absolute pixel positions are somewhat lost. This can be seen in close examination of single pixel wide characters. The vertical line in an L is always one pixel wide when connected via DVI. Using the VGA connection it is sometimes one pixel wide, sometimes two. Sometimes it flickers between one and two. Copy protection aside, a pure digital connection is always going to produce a beter picture, since the pixels get mapped directly. |
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Michael Gregory | I am considering a purchase of a Samsung DVD player which up-converts regular DVD discs to 720 - 1080i output from the player, and provides this signal via a DVI port. My question is this... since my plasma display only accepts component RGB input connections, can I use a form of DVI to RGB component adaptor to view the enhanced DVD output from this player ? By using a DVI to RGB cable of some sort, can the signal from this DVI port be passed through to the plasma w/o problem and display correctly on the panel ?? Any input would be appreciated ! KMG |
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Derek | d_olson Another advantage of DVI is that it kwows how many pixels the display has and does the scaling BEFORE it sends the signal to the diplay. In addition to being a cleaner all digital signal, the DVI connection knows exactly where to place the pixels as your have observed. Michael Converting from the digital DVI to the analog RGB would defeat DVI's advantages (above). Use RGR or Component. Hope this helps. |
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Anonymous | Does any one know where to find a DVI interface for a Sony plasma model PFM42B2? Unfortunately, Sony doesn,t. Any input would be appreciated. Thank you. |
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Anonymous | I recently got a 27" Zenith Multimedia HDTV, it was a free gift. I have compared it to many HDTV's in its size range, specs are just the same. My question is this, the HD-RGB supports two formats: 640x480p and 1920x1080i. When I connected my cpu to the HDTV I had to set it to 640x480, that was the only format it would work in. The screen displays an error if I try to switch it. I kind of understand the whole interlaced and progressive thing. Im assuming it's because my video card isnt that good. Is their any way tp manipulate my tv so I can switch to a different resolution? They both go at 60hz. The reason why im interested in this is because most new high end DVD players support DVI, not RGB. Are their any HD-RGB DVD players in the US, I have found them in UK? Bottom line is it worth all the hastle watching DVD's off my CPU or should I just use the component off my DVD player? What kind of Vid card would I need? Sombody else created a very interesting HTPC with the 32" model: http://www.jimrothe.com/htpc.html any advice or info could help, thanks. |
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| I have the same TV as you (C27V22) and I would say just stick with your DVD player for watching DVD's. No matter what res you set the desktop on, the DVD is still 720x480. Now it would be cool to get 1080i on the set, but it may not be worth your trouble. I can't get it to display on my set, because my vid card(XPERT 128) won't go that high even after I tried with Powerstrip. From what I've seen, the most comfortable setting is 960x540p, achieved by using powerstrip. I beleive you'll need at least a Radeon to do this. In the end, standard DVD resolution(especially anamorphic) looks quite sharp on a 27" TV, so there is really no need to be spending money on computer parts and software to acheive a slightly better look. I recommend that you do what I will be doing shortly, ordering Digital Video Essentials to get the color etc. set up properly; this will make a larger improvement than a few extra lines of scaled DVD. |
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Anonymous | I have a Sony plasma TV (KE-42TS2U) and want to hook up a RCA HDTV Sat box (DTC100). But..only RGB on the Sat box no RGB in on the TV and the cable that Sony shows in the manual for this doesn't seem to exist when I call Sony. Ideas? |
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Unregistered guest | What you need is an VGA>RGBHV cable. There is an RGB input on your set, input four. A VGA>RGBHV cable takes the RGB signal from the DTC-100 and splits it into five wires for I guess slightly better sheilding quality. Usually these cables are sold with BNC plugs rather than RCA plugs, but adapters are easy to find. The cables will probably be on the expensive side. Sorry I can't recommend a particular place to get the cable. I'd say shopping online or at local high end av store is your best bet; the guys at radioshack or bestbuy won't have a clue. Here's a link to a site that explained the inputs coherently |
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New member Username: LeloucoPost Number: 2 Registered: 12-2003 | The best resolution support will be 1280x720p also support 640x480, 960x540, and up to 720p you need a pc card tha support DVI-D digital and not the DVI-A that have only analog signals it work great |
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New member Username: LeloucoPost Number: 3 Registered: 12-2003 | I have a sony we610 with DVI input with HDCP. There is a lot changes to be perform The quality using the DVIxComponent video cables is very big. The best quality so far still the dvi input . My current resolution is 1280x720p and also support games at 640x480p the Sony lcd tv is awesome |
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K.C. Unregistered guest | Im about to pull my hair out folks....i have spent the last year gearing up for HDTV...first,i got the eliptical dish with 3-lnb setup,next i got the rca dtc-100 hdtv receiver and just four days ago i bought a brand new rca 52" hdtv here's the problem....the new tv has the dvi/hdtv plug with the left and right audio connections, yet my dtc-100 has the computer cable connection that i have connected to the rca vga/hdtv component adapter which has the y,pb,pr connections coming out the back of it ok.....when i connect all this together and then hit the right button on the face of the dtc receiver to get hdtv....i lose my picture and sound and all i get is a black screen i am pissed off to say the least..ive had this new tv for 5 days now and cant watch hdtv help!!! K.C |
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Anonymous | I have an Infocus X1 projector and I'm looking for a decoder/adapter dvi to vga that would let me use the Samsung DVDHD931 up-converter dvi output. |
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Anonymous | Hi, I have a HDTV with a RGB input and a Dish 811 receiver with a DVI output. Although I am aware that the TV and receiver can be hooked up using component cables, I would like to connect the receiver and TV using DVI/RGB. Can anyone recommend a source for a DVI to RGB cable? Thanks, Allan |
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Unregistered guest | There is none. Why would you want to do that anyway? It would defeat the porpose of an all-digital connection and look worse than component. Audio authority does sell a device that'll convert component to RGB but its over a hundred dollars. Stephen |
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