Archive through December 03, 2003
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bride -to- be | LCOS VS DLP? Please help-Iam purchasing big screen TV for my fiance as wedding present and I want to get him the best picture. I was sold on the Sony wega LCD 50 inch but saw it yesterday and I hated the black levels of the LCD so was referred to the phillips lcos or the samsung dlp. Can anyone tell me if the new samsung DLP HLN507W has fixed the Rainbow? I saw them on the old model in store? in you opinion which is better technology DLP or LCOS? Are the bulbs burning out the only cons? |
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ronb | I have an HLN507W on order (seems like forever). The 'rainbow' will be the same as the HLM models from last year because the DLP chip and the color wheel has not changed. I have no opinion on LCOS. The rainbow bothers some people but not others. I didn't think is was that big of a deal for me as I have to look for it if I want to see it and I found if I just enjoy the picture and not worry about the rainbow the rainbow didn't seem to appear!!! Others have a different opinion on this. I was sold on the HLN because the angle of view was much better than any other rear projection HDTV I saw - the narrow view angle of a CRT based rear projection HDTV bothered me more than the rainbow effect of the DLP set. If money is no object I still think a high end plasma is a better picture but I can't spend $7000-$8000 + on the plasma's I saw that had the best picture. For $3400 I am going to take my chances on the HLN507 |
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| I'm struggling with the same decision, but haven't ruled out the Sony Wega yet. I've only seen the Sony side by side with an older Panasonic DLP, and I liked the Sony picture better. I'm hoping that in a couple weeks, I'll be able to see the Samsung, Philips, and Sony all in the same store. If I make a decision based on that, I'll come back and post my findings. If anyone has opinions, I'd love to hear too. Thanks, Rahul |
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Anonymous | The only thing I don't like about the plasma is the degrading of picture quailty over time. If I invest that much money into something I want it to last. The problem with the Sony is that it is LCD and any LCD will have a problem with burning your pixels into the screen (which sucks) the warranty from any company will not cover it unless it has covered a certain percentage of your screen. I currently have a Sumsung DLP and I'm pretty happy with it. The rainbow effect isn't really even noticable if you are the proper distance away from the screen. (3-5 times the screen size in inches). I.E. 50" is equal to 150" (12 1/2') to 250" (approx. 20'). |
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Anonymous | If your fiance is into HT, he may still like the Sony. There are tweaks that can improve the picture and black levels. All big screens benefit from tweaks and you can't really expect to have the best picture out of the box. Most stores will also let you exchange the TV if you get bad pixels. How soon are you going to buy the TV? There will be new models for the three you list in about two months. The new Sony's will not be XBR's, so they will be close to $1,000 cheaper than they are now. |
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| I visited a Dealer in my area who went to Phillips training for the new LCoS models. They had several competitive products side by side including the Samsung DLP. He said no contest as the DLP's stilled showed rainbows or sometimes called the comet effect. No rainbows with the new Phillips LCoS. Salesman told me the picture on the new Phillips is excellent. I can't wait to see these new models myself... |
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Al Nedrich | Does anyone have a GA - general availability date on the Phillips LCoS models? |
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Anonymous | Aug. of 2003 55PL9773 |
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Anonymous | I have heard the same from our local retailer that the Philips is superior to the Samsung which everyone agreed was the best. The 55 inch set is a bit wide at 56.5 inches but under 18 inches deep. Also the Philips is supposed to a really good job of upconverting nonHDTV signals. Can't wait to actually see the units and buy one. |
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Anonymous | Buy the Philips 55PL9773 it has the pixel plus added. It will be available around Aug. 15th in some stores such as Tweeter. |
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Bride-to-be | Thanks for the info! The nice people at Tweeter have said that the 55PL9773 TV should be on display this week! I am so excited to see this picture. I have done so much research. I really, really hope there aren't any rainbows on this TV-I am really sensitive to them. I can't wait to give this to my fiance-I hope to see and purchase it before the wedding (in two weeks)but if I see it and I don't like the picture-I will wait untill after wedding and revisit those Sony's but that possibility of dead pixel thing scares me. I was very sad to hear that the HLN507W DLP newest model hansn't fixed the rainbows because I really liked that picture. I will post my findings after I see the TV-thanks for helping me out-I just want the best TV for my guy and I saved a long time to purchase the TV. I searched high and low for the TV that could play his PS2, watch great digital movies and regular cable TV, and have a great picture to watch sports on for when his friends come over. Praying I don't see rainbows.... bride-to-be |
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Anonymous | Bride-to-Be, Make sure you have Tweeter show you every source (i.e., HD, SD, and DVD's). |
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digital surgeon | Bride- I have been shopping a long time, just like you. I have been disatisfied with the Samsung DLP rainbows as well. Also, there are myriad posts of unhappy owners of hlm/hln507's, especially with regard to a terrible picture with regular tv signals. I was willing to tolerate that because of space constraints, but it turns out that early reviews of the Phillips LCOS show it is a much improved technology. The Pixel plus feature on the 9773 apparently improves the regular broadcast signal significantly. Here is an EXCELLENT review on AVSforums: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=897c468027dd1f102f8a03941d74059b&threadid=262607&highlight=phillips To seal the deal, the Phillips LCOS is MUCH CHEAPER for a set that is 5" larger. I preordered mine at pac-2000.com for around $2600. I know that's crazy sight unseen, but worst case scenario, I hate it and return it. But I have been without a TV for a month now so I can't wait any longer! Good luck! digitalsurgeon |
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ronb | Geez...another curve ball. Now I'm backing off on the HLN507W myself!!! I had this unit on order 3 months ago and the vendor was unable to deliver after about 3 weeks so I cancelled and thought about it some more. I went and watched the unit at a couple of stores again and in spite of the grainy standard picture and reported problems from some current owners, the HD picture was excellent so I ordered it from a different vendor over a month ago and they still have not been able to deliver. Seems that Samsung is sold out of the last production run -- I assume they are manufacturing more so they should be available soon, but now I am thinking of taking a chance on the Philips PL9773 sight unseen. If the claim is that they will be available this month (Aug) they might even ship before the next 507 run!!! I haven't had a TV for about 4 months so I am also getting antsy about sitting in front of the 'tube' once again to rot my brain. |
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Anonymous | I would be careful with LCOS. Many people are having significant problems with the Toshiba set. It appears they are having cooling problems that are effecting long term image quality. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=285716&perpage=20&pagenumber=1 |
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Paul Sharpe | YAMAHA DPX-1 DLP 1) Any tips on calibrating or settings programmed under the IMAGE + submenu settings (contrast, brightness, temp etc). I will gladly post my settings. 2) My bulb is at 1050 hours. Is there any history with regards to lamp burn out or picture deterioration above this number of hours. 3) Has anyone purchased a replacement lamp recently? What price and where? Thanks |
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Anonymous | Dear Bride-to-Be: Would you marry me? |
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Bride- to -be | Dear Bride-to-Be: Would you marry me? Hahahah-thanks -that makes me feel good -I hope my guy loves this TV. I just printed out all the specs and pics on nice paper (cuz I can't find a brochure!) of the TV to put with a univ remote and I am gonna wrap it up and give to him day before wedding. I just spoke with Tweeter and they dont have the 55pl9773 on display yet. I am pretty sure I am buying this TV but I just gotta see it first! Thanks for the info. BTW-anyone else have any info on the overheating problems with LCOS? That thread was very informative but I need some real life info on the overheating -how serious does it affect the picture? |
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Anonymous | Bride, You may want to check out the new Panasonic LCD's. So far people think they look really good and you can get them for under $3,000. |
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Anonymous | It would appear that the Cineos (Philips LCOS) sets have heard the complaints about the Toshiba's overheating problems - there seems to be 2 vents on the chassis so there may be an extra fan for cooling. Tweeter should have these sets on display next week sometime so we'll see then. Bride-to-Be: if your fiance doesn't appreciate this set he's a fool and don't let him forget it. |
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MOGULNC | Interesting news: I spent some time with an AV specialist @ Tweeter this afternoon and he indicated that all Tweeters, at least in the SE US have a 90 days exclusive on the Phillips LCoS. This 90 day window begins when they are shipped to their regional warehouses. Looks like Tweeter has the first crack at marketing and selling those units. Should be in stores for face to face viewing by the 26th or 28th of this month. They were originally slated to be in the Atlanta warehouse by the 18th. |
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Bride-to-be | Thank you so much-I will look at the Panny LCDs but I really want the LCOS technology due to the fact that when I viewed the LCDs -I didn't like the screen door effect or the possibility of dead pixels. Hopefully I will get to see this Phillips TV soon-thanks for the shipping info! |
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Anonymous | I have not heard any mention of the new RCA Scenium DLP units for a comparison with the Sammy DLP or Phillips LCOS. I am excited about the Phillips LCOS set's myself but these RCA units (Supposedly in stock this week) have all three tuners (NTSC,ATSC,QAM) the In-Focus light engine along with the same TI DLP chip as the Sammy. Might be an interesting alternative if Tweeters finds themselves backed up for months with pre orders. |
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walter jahnke | anyone know the difference between the phillips lcos 44pl9773 and 44pl9523? |
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Anonymous | Does Cineo support 720p signal? The manual says 1080i HD performance and line doubling. |
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Anonymous | I'm waiting for the Cineos as well. The 44pl9773 has Pixel Plus. I'd get that. The other one is $200 cheaper and slated for Best Buy and the like. I have the manual, and indeed it supportsthe 720p signal--that's it's native resolution. |
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| Hey guys, ive been keeping up with this forum for a while, and i thought you guys were on the right track. but, i have been in search of a good television for about 4 years now and i have learned quite some about tvs. im currently with a toshiba 57"crt(horrible). according to the INTENSE research i have been doing the past few weeks(getting new tv x-mas) the new cineos is the best call. The rainbow effect on the samsung is only seen by 5% of the worlds population when watching a normal scene(more about this later). The sony rarely has dead pixels but does have that screen door effect. The samsung, which i was surprised none of you noticed, cuts off part of the picture on top and bottom. next time you put that samsung dlp next to another tv you will notice that the samsung is cutting about half an inch on top and bottom of the screen. The difference betweent the cineos 9773 and the 9523 is the pixel plus tech(which is worth the extra $). The toshiba lcos(i almost got) is horrible, i was planning on getting, but a panasonic EDtv plasma looked better against the 1080P. Do not get the panny lcd's. though they look great, wait till you take it home, the cooling fan is VERY disturbing, obviously you cant hear it in the showroom. Yesterday, i personally called a specialist at Philips and asked him when this new cineos was gonna be out. He answered, "september.", but i wouldnt be so sure, so you guys do your own research on that.Dlp has great picture quality, but for the bride to be, if your husband is ever watching a football game and there is a quick play, everyone watching who follows the play is GARANTEED to see the rainbow effect. DLP is really only good at front projection.Me, im going to get the cineos, ive been waiting for a few months now, i found out about the cineos in february. the cineos does accept 720P. And if you guys dont already know, 720P is better than 1080i. think of it, more picture is being shown on the 720P because 1080I is interlaced which means it is only showing half the picture which you could caluculate into 540P which is much less than 720P. 720P is also much smoother, and eliminates ghosting. Even microsofy calls 1080i, 540P. all a line doubler is doing is taking out the lines making it a REALLY blurry 540P. well, i hope this helped and ill do my best to continue coming here and helping you guys and congratulations to Bride-to-be PS:sorry for any typos, i was in a hurry Albert |
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Anonymous | Albert, thanks for the info. what do you think about Sony KF-42WE610? The Philips Cineos manual is confusing. It says that the TV accepts 720p, but that doesn't mean that it shows 720p. It might covert it to 1080i. The manual for Panasonic PT-45LC12 and the new PT-50LC13 clearly say that the output is 720p. |
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ronb | "but for the bride to be, if your husband is ever watching a football game and there is a quick play, everyone watching who follows the play is GARANTEED to see the rainbow effect. DLP is really only good at front projection" My HLN507W has been shipped - I will have it next week. I will be using it to watch lots of sports and I will be interested to see if the rainbow is a big issue with football. On the plus side, perhaps, is that the viewing angle of this unit is much better than any of the other rear projection unit I looked at, so if you have a few people over to watch a game, the people to the left and right of center screen viewing will still get a bright picture. So, perhaps there is a tradeoff. I will report back on this subject if anyone is interested |
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Anonymous | FYI- I pre-ordered a 55PL9773 and have been given a ship date of Oct. 3rd from J and R Music and Computer World in NYC. |
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Anonymous | Spoke with my rep at HiFi buys(same as tweeter) here in GA and states the 55PL9773 will be here in two days 8/22. I've got a preorder in. They have a special going on with a free Samsung digital off-air tuner(not DirectTV). I looked at the samsung DLP the other day. While people talk of the rainbow, what about the flicker that is terribly visible in large area of solid colors? The salesman pointed this out to me. I hope the Philips looks as good as everyone says. |
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Anonymous | Any Luck with that hi-fi pre-order? |
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Anonymous | No Luck today :-(. Not yet in the wherehouse. Salesman said, maybe mon or tues. |
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joe | For a stunning hi-def picture try the zenith rear projection lcd. I have researched it for a while now and so far it was the best picture I have seen. the picture was better than the samsung dlp, and much, much better than the sony rear lcd. don't know how they did it but its the best yet. I have the D60WLCD by zenith and I love it. |
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mike d | In regards to the pixel questions on the 15th, I just found and informative piece of info. http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_definition_television This should clear it up for anyone with questions about definition definitions ( lol ) |
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Anonymous | The wedding should have already taken place, so I wonder what she ended up buying. |
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Anonymous | Although I haver already pre-ordered a 55pl9773 and have been given a ship date of oct 3rd, i wen't browsing today and was pretty impressed with the philips 55pw9363 for under $ 2000. I am considering getting a refund on the pre-order and getting something now instead of waiting but i know the pixel plus feature is supposed to really be worth the wait. I feel like a kid right before christmas!  |
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Anonymous | They're here in Atlanta! Delivery is set for saturday. Free tuner is a mail in coupon, so I'LL have to wait for this. Comcast comes in a week and half for hi-def. Can't wait for my 1st HDTV and 1st big screen. What do folks know about bluejean component cables? They look very reasonable for high quality Belkin 1694a cables with canare rcap connectors(6ft=$40). |
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| Anonymous: did you look at the 55Pl9773? If you did what did you think? Any negatives? |
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| I had a shoot out Saturday at Tweeter in Connecticut between the Phillips 55Pl9773 and Samsung DLP system. Would be interested in if anyone else had same experience. Philips system was very disappointing. Picture quality was soft and blurry in comparison to bright and sharp image on the Samsung. System would also shut off after very 3 minutes or so. From a build quality standpoint unit was missing 3 out of 5 screws from back panels. We pulled the unit new out of the box. Had expected better from Philips. Hoping this is just a single unit problem and I am interested in anyone else's experience. |
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Anonymous | I called Tweeter here in Nashville and asked if the LCoS was in yet and was told a couple of more weeks. I am going crazy wrestling with this decision. I would like to see the Phillips with my own eyes. Has anyone seen one in person? |
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Nelson B | Any Information on the 50V500 or 60V500 from Hatachi? |
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MI | Kevin M - Was that in the tweeter store in Danbury CT? |
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Bride-to-be | HI I am back from honeymoon. My guy is so excited. He couldn't believe I was getting him a huge HDTV. He is already thinking of how to set up TV room around it. I am still debating the TVs-I loved all the new info. I most likely will purchase the Cineos in the next couple of weeks but I was wondering if anyone has actually seen a 55PL9773 yet-my guy from Tweeter hasn't called me yet to say they are in. Thanks! |
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sailbyte | For what it is worth, the Tweeter in DC told me that both the Philips and the 56" Samsung units are so back ordered it will be a couple of months before they have a display unit. I can't wait to see them side by side. I am also concerned about the Philips bad quality reported posted on 9/1/02 |
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MI | I got mine setup last night, and oh baby. It took it a little while to warm up, but after an hour or so of testing various dvd and tv stations, the picture was just awesome. I have to say this is a hugh TV, I can watch it on the other side of the house. So you can imagine how hugh it is when sitting 8 ft away from it. I was watching sniper on tbs last night, and the picture was so real looking i though I was in the battle. I also have a progressive DVD player. I put in Lord of the Rings part 1, and wow. The color and brightness was awesome. I've only played with the tv last night for about 3 hrs, but I am happy with it. I've also got the stand, which is nice, but not practical if you have many a/v comps. I was only able to fit my dvd recorder, vcr, receiver and gamecube in there. My other Vcr and dvd player will be moved. I'm going to be testing the pc connection hopefully some time this week. For me I can say this TV has blown away the others. MI |
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Bride-to-be no longer | MI-Any Rainbows? I am so jealous that you have the Cineos already! I have ehard conflicting stories about the rainbows popping up on these things. So scared. I love it so much already! |
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Anonymous | Be careful about loving something that cannot love you back. |
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| MI - Sorry for late reply but I was traveling. It was Tweeter's Danbury store. They received a replacement Philips model and today I had my shoot out between Samsung, Sony and the Philips. I liked the Philips a lot. Samsung was brighter with better blacks but the softness of the Philips was more appealing to me. I also found it produced much better detail then the others. Sony came in third by far. For the ultimate test I tried a Top Gun VHS tape. Philips Pixel Plus mode worked extremely well. Samsung and Sony did not compete at all in this area. My recommendation would be the Philips model for anyone who prefers a softer picture and is using a cable TV feed. I will be picking my unit up Saturday and cannot wait for my Lord of the Rings Film festival !! |
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| Hi the last time I went to the tweeters store in Manchester Ct, they didn't have any philps cineos yet. 2/3 were already sold. I just hope they don't sell out so I can compare it with the samsung DLP. PLEASE IF ANYONE KNOWS WHICH OF THESE TVS IS BETTER AND WHY PLEASE RESPOND WITH AS MUCH DETAIL AS U CAN? (PROS AND CONS) BETWEEN THE 2. |
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MI | Bride-to-be no longer - I didn't notice any rainbows, but then again im not 100% sure of what the rainbow effect is. This is my first none tube tv, so I'm not an expert. But I know what I like, and I have to say the philips has the best picture I ever seen. Movies and tv take on a life of their own, some times i just stare at how real the scene looks and totally miss whats happening. I was testing Lord of the rings, part 1. And the opening scene where Gandolf rides into the scire was amazing. The clarity of the back ground trees and whatnot just blew me away. I set the temp on the tv to warm, and the color setting to rich, and the greens of the grass and trees just jumped out at me. Kevin M - I have to agree, I don't even think I need to get hdtv with this tv. Basic cable with pixel plus is awesome. One thing about the bightness, the manual says it will auto adjust bightness to compensate for room conditions, that might be why it looked a little softer then the other TVs. (See quote below) I've noticed this too when switching between cable and my dvd player. When In tv mode and active control is on, you'll notice as your changing the channels that the picture actualy changes and re adjusts itself. When the DVD is playing with 480P, active control is not available, so it plays it to whatever setting you have on the tv. So I think with tweeking you can get it as bright as dlp tv. In anycase I totally love this tv. I've tried a video game system, gamecube so far and metroids was insame. I still havent had the time to really play with this tv, Im hoping to get the cable to hook up my pc and see how games look on it. At this point, im not sure if i want the extended warrenty or not, kevin m did you get one? MI Quote " Active Control Plus monitors incoming video signals from the Tuner, AV1, AV2, and Side inputs and adjusts key picture settings for best picture quality. In addition to measur- ing picture noise, this feature uses an ambient light sensor (located on the front of the TV) to adjust the picture settings according to viewing conditions in the room. When you choose to turn Active Control Plus on, you have the options Minimum, Medium, or Maximum. Maximum is the recommended option." |
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Bride-to be-no longer | Hi-thanks for more input people. MI-thanks for the review-excellent info. Rainbows are flashes of red, green, and blue that appear sometimes in darker scenes-I am happy you don't see them-its terrible! I saw them on the Samsung DLP. I see rainbows but most people don't -it ruins the viewing experience for me to see those flashes. If my husband doesn't see them- I am buying this TV anyway since its for him as a wedding present and not for me-plus I already told him this was the one I got for him. Thank you all for your feedback -feel free to keep the reviews coming as I think a bunch of people keep check like me! |
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MI | Bride-to be-no longer- I'll take a look for rainbow effect, and let you know if I notice it. MI |
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Anonymous | It is already known that several people have seen the rainbow effect on the Philips, but only a small number of people see it. |
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| MI-Thanks for the info on brightness control. Will have more time to play when I have it setup at home. Regarding extended warranty, I think I will be doing this since its first edition of product and that Tweeter had such a sweet financing deal going on last month. Bride-to be-no longer- Rainbow effects are specific to DLP systems since they use a color wheel to change shades of gray generated by processor mirrors into colors. Only 5% of people can see them. This does become more apparent during high motion activities like sporting events. |
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Heartdoc | I love all this discussion. My set came last saturday, but it got sent back because it would not turn on out of standby. MI-could you please tell me the exact width of the back of the set and the swivel base to the nearest 1/4 inch. I want to know if i can get the set on a shelf with 49 3/4 width by 18 inch opening, shelf depth 24 inches. Else, I'll need to cut out more of the sides to fit it in the bookcase. thanks. I like to get the opening set before the new set comes in. |
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MI | HeartDoc - I can't actually measure the tv, because im leaving for vacation this sat and still have to pack, yada yada etc. haha. But ill post what the manual says. hopefully it helps yah • Product dimensions (d x w x h) 44PL9773: 14.6" x 46.7" x 31.7" 55PL9773: 17.4" x 56.6" x 38.1" • Product weight (excluding packaging) 44PL9773: 73.1 lbs 55PL9773: 95.5 lbs BTW you can DL the manual from philips web page. MI |
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Anonymous | Kevin, Try reading avsforum and you will see that the rainbow effect is not just for DLP. |
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Anonymous | If you read that AVM forum article, it mentions that the LCOS chip would have a average life of 20,000 hours (the actual bulb is expected to average 6000 hours). This seems low to me. I wonder if the LCOS chips can be easily replaced? Lets see - figure about 4 hours per day into 20,000 hours - thats about 14 years - I guess thats a long time for a TV |
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| Anonymous - I can see how you could infer that LCoS technology could have the rainbow effect based on AVSFORUM note you refer to (see below -- This set refers to Philips LCoS System). But, the rainbow effect is a function of the color wheel technology being used today with DLP and not a characteristic of LCoS technology as implemented by Philips. Look ma, no rainbows Admittedly, the rainbows on the DLP's don't have a big effect on me and I have to try and see them, but I do see them if I try. No such problem with this set -- the color scan is smooth. Philips says it's because of the scrolling color mode (see attached document for a much better explanation) I'm not saying that's the case, all I can say is I saw no evidence of rainbows. |
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Anonymous | I own a HLN507W and all the talk about rainbows is way overblown. When I was deciding which set to purchase, I read many posts about the rainbows (and other artifacts too) and how this set gave people headaches and about internal reflections etc. so much so that I started getting the impression that you would be buying a big problem you would be sorry about. I bought this set anyways and I have had none of these events happen during viewing for some reason. The picture is excellent -- plenty of contrast and very sharp. Try watching the Discovery Channel HD on DirecTV via the DVI port when a real HD program is on (like 'Insectica') and you will be amazed how good the picture is. If anyone is considering buying this set but has concerns that the picture will be full of rainbows and not watchable, my personal experience is that these claims are exaggerated -- none of these reported observations have realized themselves thus far -- I'll keep a lookout though and report back any suspicious behavior!!! |
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| Anonymous - You bring up a good point. Only 5% of people see this effect naturally. Appears you are one of the 95% and as long as you enjoy you TV then that's rally all that matters. Below is URL with brief description on DLP Rainbow Effect. There are others there as well. Just go to goole and search on DLP Rainbow Effect http://www.projectorpoint.co.uk/ProjectorLCDvsDLP.htm |
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Brian D Dallas | I saw the latest Tantus 56" DLP here at the Ultimate Electronics store in Dallas on 9-5-03. They have upgraded the firmware in these new Tantus DLP sets. A guy I met in the store - not salesperson - said to make sure to get the latest firmware (currently revision 2.14) for the best picture. In any case, I saw a lot of dithering and movement artifacts in the older 50" and 61" sets.. The 56" Tantus DLP set, on the other hand, was great! I couldn't see any of the movement artifacts at a normal viewing range (btw - I have never seen a rainbow on any of the sets - its the movement artifacting that previously bothered me). I was completely sold on the Phillips 55PL9773 (saw it at Fry's last weekend at their Irving store), but now, it's a toss up between the two sets.. I think the Phillips has clearer lines (due to LCOS and possibly pixel plus although I don't know if the set I saw had that), but the Samsung still has better colors. Tough choice... Both sets are 720p, so as far as the final display goes, it's close a toss up too. My final decision may actually be based on which TV will work better as a computer monitor. In this case, I think it will be the Phillips due to it's decreased pixelation. Anyone else here thought about playing games on either of these TV's through a computer VGA connection? I'm not sure the DLP has the input, but know that the Phillips has one of these.. BTW, I have to throw this in here... I've discarded the 1080i vs 720p arguments since the actual HD signal is not going to be >720p resolution for a long time.. So the fact that both of these TV's convert to native 720p does not look like a drawback to me. Any other comments on tossing aside the 1080i vs 720p arguments aside when considering these sets is also welcome..  |
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Anonymous | For anyone in Atlanta, there is a 55" Philips LCOS on display in the Johnson Ferry Hi-Fi Buys. |
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Mike D | I think that 720p is what sat tv hd will be broadcast at while network tv standard is 2 540p signals interlaced which gives us 1080i. I could be wrong though. I know that 720p is the superior pixel transmission in the united states for now but i am not sure if anyone is really broadcasting at that yet. maybe a dvd will output 720p into the set without the need for interlacing. like i said, i am no expert and to anyone that is, please feel free to correct me. |
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Culpeppa | Can anyone compare the Phillips "Pixel Plus" to the Samsung "DNIe and DCDi". They are both supposed to improve the analog signal before outputting to 720p. But which is better? Like everyone else, I'm on the list for a DLP, but considering the LCoS. The Hi-Fi Buys salesman claims "Pixel Plus" is superior, and claims the Faroudja "DCDi" is just a line doubler. I've heard different. |
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| Culpeppa -I did that exact side by side comparison and I have to agree with your Hi-Fi Buys salesman. I thought there was no comparison in that the Philips was far superior in showing traditional VCR/VHS and standard cable signals. |
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Dtimps | So what is the deal. I have been reading this string for a while and am curious who is actually buying the Phillips. I too am considering the Phillips but have not had an opportunity to view a set my self. I put together (what I feel) is a kick butt system and am lacking the TV component. Is the Phillips the best option at this point and does anyone have a comment about the life expectancy of this set (the Phillips LCOS)?? If not the Phillips than what other TV would or should be given consideration? |
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Brian D Dallas | If not the Philips, then the HLN567W... I noticed that the Philips only has only a 400:1 contrast ratio. Is 400:1 contrast good enough? Is this the reason why I always see a DVD cartoon on the Philips LCOS in the showroom??? No contrast is needed for the cartoon, and the LCOS performs well on showing the lines... Hmmm.. I'm think I'm going to take my own DVD up there, maybe the Blues Brothers for the car/mall chase scene, and Dark City to see the contrast at work... Also, I wanted to point out that Philips makes 2 different 55 inch LCOS sets: the 55PL9523/17 and the 55PL9773/17. The better one (55PL9773/17) has the features of the 55PL9523/17, plus a glare screen filter, better remote, pixel plus, and auto volume leveler (just by comparing the brochure). |
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John Greer | Just paid 20% deposit on Philips 55PL977S LCoS RPTV at Tweeter. Salesman said difference between 55PL977S and 55PL9773 is that the 55PL977S comes with the swivel base included. Can anyone confirm that--the folks at Philips don't seem to have a clue! |
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Bride | Hi everyone. We finally went to Tweeter last night and saw the 55pl9773 LCOS. All I saw was rainbows everywhere. I got a headache even looking at it. It was actually worse for me than than the Samsung DLP that I saw rainbows on. I was extrememly upset. Besides that it was a beautiful TV. The picture was so clear, the colors were great, the technician had come in from Phillips the night before and fixed the "purple" color that had been on the TV. It was so "real" looking. It was the perfect TV at the price I wanted to pay for that size. I had been researching this TV for six months and was vry disappointed-it lived up to everything I was looking for except the rainbows. I had been ddueling with the samsung dlp, the sony xbr and this cineos for half the year. However-my guy really liked the Sony XBR 60 inch. The picture was not as "real" as the Cineos and was a flatter-softer- picture and darker colors (screen door) but it looks like DLP and LCOS technology right now wont work for us since the rainbows are too frustrating. We are very happy with the Sony LCD and hey maybe they will improve the technology on the others alot over the next 5 years or so and we can always upgrade. Thank you for your input here. My shopping is done. Please keep posting reviews as alot of people check this string too. Thanks! -Bride |
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Anonymous | Bride, I tried to tell you that it has the rainbow effect and you might be able to see it, but people on here didn't want to accept that. I personally would have held off on the Sony. The new Grand Wega's are a grand cheaper and come out in a month. Or you could have waited until the new XBR Grand Wega's come out in Novemeber. They are really nice, and have a built-in-tuner. |
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Culpeppa | Here's an exerpt from a Philips press release: " ... - any analog signal can be enhanced to show the characteristics of a HD-like picture when using Pixel Plus technology. ...This is achieved by a doubling of both horizontal and vertical line resolution - from 1024 to 2048 pixels across and from 525 to 1050 lines horizontal- thereby resulting in a highly visible resolution improvement of on-screen images, producing amazingly sharp pictures with natural detail." --- Ok, so am I to assume that ONLY the Philips "pixel plus" does this? Not Samsung's DNIe? I'm interested in getting the best picture from a standard signal, as well as from a high def source. Looks like Philips may have the advantage here. |
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Brian D Dallas | Interesting comment from a salesperson about Pixel Plus on the Philips... He said that turning Pixel Plus off actually helps the standard over-the-air signal. He did this in front of me on the set, and he was right! The conventional/non-HD signal looked a lot better without Pixel Plus. This supposidly helpful feature is only meant for HD sources, and IMHO actually causes problems on non-HD sources. Just FYI... |
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Anonymous | Brian D, The reason that Pixel Plus looks so horrible on over the air signals is bc the line doubling works so well. It is essentially doubling the ugliness of the bad signal. On DVD or HD, the technology is phenomenal. |
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Anonymous | By the way, saw the Philips tonight and it is as close to plasma (or better) as you can get. Very nice. |
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mike | so what is the choice is it philips lcos or the samsung dlp. i need to make my mine soon so help me. |
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| Michael: you need to go to the show room, look at the sets together and make up your own mind. Since the sales people often times don't know as much as the customer you will have to do your research and then decide. Looks like the Philips is the best except for the rainbows, Samsung is great also but is too expensive, you might look at the 3818 and 3819 Philips also, they are not as BIG but have a great picture and are more reasonably priced, sadly these sets live for 20 years or more ( my Sony was bought May 4, 1983 and is still going strong) so it's a tough decision, go with Philips if they can get the rainbows out. Note that in Consumer Reports last television ratintgs, Philips was the only brand to get a total red dot in picutre quality, better then Sony, Samsung or Mitsubishi. Sam in Dallas, Texas U.S.A. |
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Anonymous | Does anybody know of Philips LCOs in any South Florida retail locations? |
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Anonymous | I saw the Philips today. It takes your breath away. It looks definitely better (from close range) than the Samsung HLN507. The weird thing is: I always read about the rainbow effects on the Samsung. I have seen the Samsung at least ten times and never saw the rainbows. But I saw them today on the Philips. I was at GoodGuys and told that they are the only store that will have the Philips for the next weeks (3 weeks ahead of competition). They were sold out (on the first day) with 65 units on back-order and no delivery date is commited by Philips. Argument: Producing LCOS chips takes time. |
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Undecided | Okay I saw the Phillips (LCOS) and Samsung (DLP) side-by-side just now. Unfortunately the Phillips had a purple hue that ruined the comparison for me. The salesman said that it wasn't like that before, that "some guy" had been messing with it. They tried to fix it but to no avail. They said they'd have a technician come in and fix it and call me back for another look. I assume it was the same problem that Bride referred to above (which makes me wonder more if it is a re-occurring problem, or just isolated incidents -once-fixed, never seen again. Aside from that, here are my observations (albeit from an untrained eye). Rainbows- I saw no rainbows on either unit. I would like to have some more specifics on the rainbows people are seeing. I've heard that it happens more on fast-paced programming like sports. How does the rainbow appear (i.e., one large rainbow across the screen, in the corners, around certain objects like faces)? Perhaps I don't see then because I'm looking for them too hard? Do you see them standing up close, far away, to the side of the unit? Resolution - The Phillips has the better resolution. It was very evident when the salesman put in Chapter 20 of the latest Star Wars CD. The green field looked blurry on the Samsung, but you could see the individual strands of grass on the Phillips. However, one thing kept bothering me about the Phillips. When viewing close-up shots of faces, you see more detail, but the tone of the picture seems much colder than the Samsung. The Samsung seemed warmer and more cinematic. The characters looked "prettier" I thought because you couldn't see the flaws in more detail such as a scar on their face, or yellow on their teeth. It reminded me of a magazine cover of a model before and after being airbrushed. The Phillips being the pre-airbrush, the Samsung being airbrushed. Toggling the Picture Plus setting made no difference on the cold look. As far as watching a movie, I thought the Samsung looked better. If I were watching more sports (or reality TV) then I'd probably prefer the Phillips look. Unfortunately, I watch both, and therein lies the delima. Of course, the purple hue on the Phillips may be responsible for the cold look I describe. I hope so. I'll report again after they fix the purple on the Phillips and I have another look. Comments welcome from those who've seen the units and can point out some other things I need to look for next time. |
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heartdoc | Saw the Philips and Samsung side by side along with the Pioneer elite models. I love this Philips unit. The colors are really natural, not overly saturated, greens are true, and the greys are much better, with only the deepest blacks are not quite as intense. S-Video DVD inputs look really good. HD TV is equally amazing. I agree with your above assesment of the somewhat colder look. There is less intense blues especially in the sky, but clouds are grey, not blue. You can warm up the color setting and adjust the detail if you dont want to see every flaw on the actors' faces. |
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| Saw the 55 977S at Fryes in Irving, Tx., great picture with NO rainbows though there was a lot of glare reflection from the lights, side by side with the the more expensive Samsung the Philips had a better picture for less money, Samsung DLP according to the salesman, has a rainbow problem because of some sort of color wheel that it uses to display the image. Tweeter has a 9773 also with a great picture,no rainbows, salesman there says the NEW Sony Grand Wegas won't be any different from what's out there now except for some cosmetics on the case. Great Indoors had a 9818 that looked good for $1899.00 and could order the 9819 for a WHOPPING $2499.00, sales guys knew nothing about Pixel Plus until I told them. Fryes price was $3699.00, Tweeter $3999.00 but will price match, I may wait until the PL 44 9773 comes out in October. Noone seems to know anything about when these sets will come with a built in off the air and satellite tuner which would save hundreds of dollars. Fryes wanted $369.00 for their stand and Tweeter $650.00, TOO MUCH!! |
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| Philips Quality Issue on Model 55PL9773 After 2 weeks and 3 seperate units I am a little frustrated. Problems range from unit just turning it self off after a few mintes of use to not comming on at all. When it works the unit is great. Pixel plus does wonders on standard cable feed and there are a ton of options for adjusting video and adiuo setting. Tweeter has been super. I cannot say enough about their support. Never a problem with returns. They also have full court press on Philips for some answers. I had heard but unconfirmed that Philips released units with some firmware issues to meet delivery deadline. If anyone has additional info that would be great. |
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Fab 5 | After seeing nothing but purple on the Philips set, I went to a different Good Guys in a different city. They had the 55" Philips set. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! The picture was fantastic. The color was perfect. NO PURPLE. I was just stunned by the quality of the set. A salesperson snook up behind me and said, "Isn't it great? This just blows away the Sony sitting right next to it doesn't it?" I told him that I was in a different GG store and was very disappointed in the picture quality for the set I saw. He then said that a Philips service person needed to tweek something on the unit, and then it shouldn't be a problem for that set in the other store. People are purchasing this set up like hotcakes. The GG warehouse had a total of 72 units, all of which are totally sold with plenty of waiting lists to come. This store I was in actually had 5 on hand and they were sold in 1 day after they went on sale. The waiting list is around a week and a half as GG will be receiving more of this set. Guess the chips take time to make. The 44 inch will be in within a week also. This is really worth checking out if you haven't yet, or if you went to see the set before, and found a purple looking set. It's just jaw dropping. I want one today! |
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Anonymous | As you appear to be learning, you can't trust the pq in a store. They can be set up quite differently and give you different results. You can go home and make almost every TV better than what you see in the store. However, all of the sightings of purple problems on the Philips set indicates there is definitely a quality control issue. That is a high risk you take with a first generation set. |
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| I hope this is not too elementary of a question, but I am building my home theater one component at a time; the TV is next. I've been interested in the Cineos based on what I've been reading here and elsewhere. My problem is: I was at a regional retailer yesterday and he told me the Cineos is only 720p -- not 1080p, in other words EDTV not HDTV. Is this true; does it make a difference; should I consider DLP or other LCOS models, which I understand are 1080p or more? Thanks for your help. |
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George G. | I was at the Tweeters in Danbury when they received their 55pl9773 demo unit. It was so fresh the carton was still on the sales floor.I asked the salesman to turn on unit for me which he gladly did, but the set shut down after about 30 seconds so I can't offer any opinions about the picture quality, however the experience makes me very nervous about purchasing one, even if it does turn out to be a great looking picture. The question then becomes, how long will it take for Philips to work the bugs out if I do decide I would like to purchase one? I've waited for years to find a big screen TV I could live with as it is. |
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Anonymous | Newbie, HD is 720p and 1080i. It was incorrect for the salesman to say that it is not a HDTV. While some TV's claim conversion up to 1080p, there are no current HDTV's that can display 1080p. |
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Anonymous | I don't think that's accurate. I believe the Toshiba HLX82 (the new model (HLX83) is supposedly due out pretty soon) has a native resolution of 1080p. I could be wrong on this, but my understanding of this issue is that there is no source that is 1080p, yet. I think HD signals (and probably DVDs as well) will at some point be 1080p, but as of now are either 1080i or 720p. BTW, anyone have any info on the Toshiba HLX83? I'm in the market and am prime for the Cineos (as soon as I can find one on display somewhere in the D.C. metro area), but wanted to wait to see if Toshiba's 2nd Gen of it's LCOS compares. |
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Newbie | I think I may have confused matters by an error in my former message. Actually the salesman said Cineos could not display 1080i and was, therefore, EDTV not HDTV. Still don't know if he was correct or not. |
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Anonymous | I found these two links, but I have not had the time to read them yet. The second link has product specs and should answer a lot of questions. Good Luck http://www.cineos.philips.com/flash_index.php You may have to copy and paste the link below. You need the entire address to reach this page. I copied the links from the Philips web site. http://www.consumer.philips.com/global/b2c/ce/catalog/subcategory.jhtml;jsessionid=QMB1EJ242IRCWCRQNE2RYUYKGBUCWHD0?groupId=TV_GR&divId=0&catId=LCOS_TV_CA&subCatId=LCOS_TV_SU |
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John Greer | Re: Brian D Dallas. Pixel Plus does not apply to HD sources, only to non-HDTV sources such as Off-the-Air, DVD, Cable, or Satellite. If the source quality is poor, then Pixel Plus may make it look worse. Big screen TVs make it look even "worser!" but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have one! Re: Newbie. Most TV sales persons don't have a clue or are, at least, confused about many issues. The two primary versions of HDTV are 720p ("p" for progressive) and 1080i ("i" for interlaced). From what I have seen on my Samsung 30" HDTV and read in magazine articles, you don't see much difference between the two, they both look great. The differences between the two involve how the digital information is processed but both put the same amount of digital data on the screen. Don't let any sales person convince you 720p is not "really" HDTV! In fairness to the sales people, HDTV is confusing! |
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John Greer | Re: Nelson B. I saw the Hitachi 50V500 at Sears on Saturday and it looked great. On the HDTV program they were showing, black was black plus it had good colors and brightness (although not as bright as the Samsung DLP). If I didn't have a deposit on a Philips 55PL977S at Tweeter in Nashville, I might have purchased the Hitachi (why is there no Tweeter in Knoxville?). But I think I will wait until I see the Philips Cineos set--I don't see rainbows on Samsung DLPs so, hopefully I won't see them on the Philips set either! One thing I really liked about the Hitachi is that you can, apparently, tailor the contrast, brightness, and color, etc. for every input source. |
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Anonymous | has anyone seen the optoma dlp tv? |
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| I just received my LCOS 55' TV. I have Direct TV dish (no HD). The picture looks terrible. Can any one help me with any settings to improve the picture quality? or I need to have HD Direct TV? Please help. I am considering returning it if I can't get a better picture. Thanks. |
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martin | Hey Bride Hey all others, I have been reading this and its a great source of info. I am currently considering the samsung, because I like the "feel" of the picture. (btw, cineos looks amazing too, but its one of those things that screems your name louder) BUT 1. does anyone know where to get a good site with "tweeking" guidelines ?? I cant seem to find one. 2. Do you know if the tweeking has to be done by the tech onlly to get the best pic out of the tube ?? Thanks -martin Chicago |
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Anonymous | Martin, Check out AVS forum and there is a large thread on tweaks for the Samsungs. |
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Brian D Dallas | Can any of the home users of the Philips 55PL977S please report back on operating noise levels? Ie: Are the cooling fans in the back noticable? This is one of those tests that are impossible in the showroom... Also, if someone has the new Samsung DLP (HLN567W), it would be interesting to hear if the cooling system or color wheel give off a lot of noise... TIA, Brian |
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heartdoc | There is no noticeable fan noise on the Philips that I have seen. I used the set for a couple of days. Colors on this set seem very good. Progressive DVD playback is nice. No HD source yet installed. Cable TV is okay with clean signal. Can't really tell how much pixel plus is working. |
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| How to see the rainbow effect... The rainbow effect is caused by rapid movement of the eyes across the picture. It really has nothing to do with how much the picture is moving, except indirectly. For example if a football is thrown and moves VERY quickly from one side of the screen to the other, then following along with your eyes may produce the rainbow effect. It's all about timing. A white pixel on the screen requires that all of the colors on the color wheel be fired in rapid succession. If your eye is not moving, it blends the colors all together to get a white dot. But if you move your across the screen fast enough, then your eye will be in a different position as each different color is being shot at that point on the screen, and you will perceive multiple colors instead of one dot. I have a Samsung HLN5065W and I can see this effect IF I try hard enough. I see it best when there is a white vertical line against a black background. Moving my eyes very rapidly shows several lines of different colors spaced across the screen. But during normal viewing it is NEVER a problem. Sometimes I notice it when I quickly look away to see what time it is. But I don't care then because I'm tyring to look at the clock anyway! This may have been a much bigger issue with the first versions of this TV, but with the improvements in the color wheel design and rotation speed, it is a total non-issue for me. My only complaint at all with this unit is the internal reflection problem where a white area on the upper left of the screen causes a faint green glow on the lower right part of the screen. But there is supposed to be a fix for this (replacing the light engine, I believe), so I'm going to check into getting that done. But even this problem is only occasional and not a big deal. During normal veiwing of DVDs, I love this TV. But if I was to do it again today, I would also look at the RCA Scenium HDLP50W151, which probably has a similar picture (I haven't seen it yet), but has more and better features from what I've read. |
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| After further review, I think I am going to wait until The Consumer Reports T.V. issue comes out and make my choice then, that should be by March 2004, it's getting very confusing and I know as much or more than the sales people. The Home Theater Magazine article (OCTOBER 2003 issue) on The Philips Cineos 44PL977S LCOS HD Monitor was not all that flattering and at a whopping retail price of $3,700 one doesn't want to make a mistake! |
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Ryan | Wow, what a great thread! I saw the Phillips 55PL977S at Good Guys, fell in love, and decided to do some research. From this thread I'm hearing that LCOS is going through new technology pains, but based on the picture it may be worth it! Has anyone seen the new Toshiba (which is 1080p btw)? I want a screen larger than 55 inches... Has anyone heard about Sony's new SXRD technology? They're supposed to have them in the showrooms sometime this year. It has twice the pixel density, ten times the inter-pixel spacing, 3000:1 contrast, etc. I'm looking to buy in the next year or so and at these prices can only afford to do it right the first time... |
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DsprateInMi | Need to buy a TV ASAP as ordered by wife of 15 years! Will be in the doghouse soon if I dont! Need all your help. I am trying real hard to wait it out for the Phillips 55PL9773 to show up in Michigan somewhere. In the meanwhile.. I have looked at the old Samsung 5065, have not found the newer 5067 anywhere here. Am seriously considering RCA Scenium HDLP 50W151. Why is this not being recommended by anyone on this list? Is there a problem with this brand/tv. It is DLP, has a lot of features that the others dont. Built it tuners for one! Can get this one at ABC Warehouse for about $3100. Lots of real good info on these threads, thanks to y'all.. |
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D | Hello, I'm planning on buying a tv set but do not know which brand to go with. Can anyone tell me the difference or your personal opinion or knowledge on these choices: Sony "grand wegar" 50inch VS. Phillips cineos 55inch Thanks very much for your help. |
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Anonymous | All, I had ordered the 44 Cineos, even after viewing the "suspect" looking 55 displayed in the store and the bad review in Home Theater Mag. Then one of the sales guys at Tweeter called me and told me that the HLN46 just came and i should check it out. I bought it and picked it up the same day from their warehouse. Wow! A+ on the HD sources, A- on DVD, and a B for SD (after turning down the contrast/Sharpness). I am very happy so far and will keep you posted on any significant events...and...no rainbows..yet. |
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| Attention Ryan: The Sony SXRD will come in at an incredible $20,000 to start with, by the time the price becomes affordable we will all be in the happy hunting ground. Attention D, read the forum and you will answer your question. Attention Desperate in Michigan, the HDLP 50W151 is I believe an RCA product which usually rates inferior to brands such as Sony, Philips, Panasonic, Samsung, etc. Poor frequency of repair record in general for most RCA products. I can only find one review on this model translated from the original German, sounds quirky and there may be a problem getting service and/or parts. Am still going to wait for Consumer Reports NEW ratings to come out in a few months. Sam in Dallas |
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Anonymous | Does anyone know what the technical differences are between the Samsung HLN46W and the HLN507W. Is size the only difference? |
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david park | so what is the answer is it lcos or dlp i called phiip they don't know thing about cineos, tweeter price is too high, buying at web is cheaper but is it wise to get it in the net? philip sad walmart kmart and samwhole sale would have it but when? spend 3999.00 on a screen tv is it worth it or at that price maby plasma is way to go? don't know, is anyone have the wright answer what is the best buy for 4000.00 to spend. also do anyone know that the new samsung HD dvd player for 299.99 would work if cineos better cuz cineos already have a pixel plus built in so does it make any difference having HD dvd player hooked up in the unit. Let me know |
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| I posted as "Anonymous" on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 08:43 pm Q: "Does anyone know what the technical differences are between the Samsung HLN46W and the HLN507W. Is size the only difference?" A: I have read that the HLN 46,56,61 differ by an upgraded Faroudja chip v.s. the HLN 43 & 50. More details earlier in the string I believe. David: Your best bet is to buy the TV at a place like Tweeter which has price matching for up to 60 days. The Interenet is cheaper, but you have the risk factors and you pay for shipping. Servicing is also suspect and not convenient (ship TV back v.s. taking over to your local store). Folks at Tweeter are "generally" more knowledgle, but I have had good experiences with folks at Circuit City/Best Buy. |
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anon | i highly recommend the hitachi 50v500. especially for the anti-glare. this thing lights up your room... |
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| If you are looking for a review of the RCA DLP check out the review at: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=490&page_number=2&preview= It also compares the RCA DLP, the Philips LCos and a Toshiba CRT projection TV. |
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Brian D Dallas | I dropped by the Tweeter in Dallas to take another look at the Philips 55PL977S. Unlike Fry's, they aren't showing a cartoon, but multple sources (thank you Tweeter!). In any case, I must admit that I was disappointed. I have been waiting for this TV for such a long time, but now I'm pretty sure I have ruled it out. Here's why: I talked with the guy that tunes their HD TV's there. He said that the Philips LCOS has a software problem that the factory won't talk about. He said that the issues are so bad, he doesn't want to even try to tune it, and is looking forward to sending it back. I noticed that it was showing purple, while the plasmas showed blue.. The DVD sources (from a regular DVD, not a cartoon), looked pixelated. Overall, I was not impressed, and now that I hear from someone that.. yes.. had a great deal more knowledge than I did in the store (finally!) I can rule it out. This guy recommended the Samsung DLP (latest generation only) and the newest Sony LCD since they are using technologies that are not in their 1st generation.... By the way, the Sony LCD he recommended was about 1k less, looked just about as good as the DLP, and had a more film-like feel (which I like). So, if I buy any time in the near future, it might actually end up being a Sony LCD! (Didn't think I'd reach that conclusion when I started out). |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Hi Everyone - this is my first post here but I have been following all your threads. I thought you might like to see this comment I found posted on eBay by a dealer selling the new 55" Philips LCOS: "NOTE: Concerning the technical issues with the first units put on the market, the new shipment of these TV's has been pushed back to Early November. Philips is in the process of fixing this problem and you will receive one of the newer units when they are available. Once they are available and shipped, you will receive the TV within 3-5 days." See for yourself at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3049650453&category=15079 I had placed an order for one at the local Tweeter here about 6 weeks ago but got concerned when I read the Home Theatre magazine review. When a similar review appeared in Sound & Vison magazine mentioning horizontal lines suddenly appearing on the screen I got even more concerned. The comment from that eBay dealer was the last straw so I visited with Tweeter yesterday and switched to the 61" Samsung DLP (due in 10/8/03). I was also concerned about the complaints of the Philips menu being tiresome to navigate and as the owner of a new MX-700 remote (awesome!!) I didn't like the fact that the Philips input button has to cycle through ALL inputs sequentially - that would get frustrating real fast. The Sammy may not have discrete commands either, but at least it skips over unused ones. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Brian - I had also considered the new Sony, but I'm worried about stuck pixels. The one here at the Huntsville store has one stuck pixel (stuck at blue). I didn't notice it at first, but once you do, you know it's there and can't stop seeing it! I must admit the light output of the Samsung just blows me away everytime. I was torn between the Sony and the Samsung. I have one of the new Sony SAT-HD300's on order so it was tempting to go Sony all the way (my entire home theatre rack is Sony too) - especially as I hear about occaisional DVI differences when testing the copyright test channel on DirecTV. I ruled the RCA DLP out due to too many postings on RCA quality control and my original holdout for the latest Toshiba LCOS's got changed when the Tweeter stores said they they wouldn't carry it and there had been some problems with the first Toshiba ones. I still think LCOS will be the ultimate way to go but I think they needs a year to iron out the technology. Samsung are onto their 2nd generation of DLP's and there are plenty in the market already. It's a bit risky being first out the door and I don't want to spend $4-5k to be a "tester". P.S. My wife and kids are off to visit with her folks when the big Sammy arrives. I have the installer coming in while they are away to put DirecTV in all the rooms at the same time so they are in for a big surprise when they return! |
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Brian D Dallas | I bet you guys are going to have a great time when they get back! Thanks for the info.. I still might go for the Sammy too. It just a matter of price at this point for the DLP, or whether I feel lucky if I go for the LCD (re: the bad pixel potential). I'll be sure to remember to check the mfg warranty and the store return policy if I buy the LCD.. |
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Anonymous | Brain and Lawrence - what model Sony are you referring to as the LCd model that competes with the Cineos and Samsung DLP? Thanks in advance - |
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Anonymous | I think the model he means is the new LCD, the Sony KF50WE610. As for the Cineos, I've seen two so far and both were purple and very disappointing. And the Tweeter guys were not happy with the color. They also said it had rainbows. I really liked the Sony LCD side-by-side with the Samsung and Philips. Blacks are true black, very sharp (evident when you look at letters), and NO moving parts. The stuck pixel is a concern. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Yes I was referring to the KF50WE610. I also heard there were some new models round the corner for 2004, but I can't wait any longer! I wonder how many stuck pixels you have to have before Sony would honor replacement under warranty? I read somewhere (can't remember where) that it took several before they considered it. For me, one pixel would be unnacceptable. It's always diificult to make a true comparison between models in a store. Customers fiddle with the controls and they rarely use DVI inputs which makes a big difference - and somehow the models you want to compare are never side-by-side. The Samsung in Tweeters at Huntsville looks great even with just component feed, so I'm betting it looks even better with DVI. The review in The Perfect Vision mentioned a profound difference between the two, especially when it came to noise and grain. Question - I noticed the 50" Samsung has a small shelf built into the top center of the cabinet (perfect for placement of a separate mid speaker). Does anyone know if the bigger 61" model has this shelf too? I have a Cambridge Audio mid that have to place somehow. |
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Brian D Dallas | Tweeter said that they'd take the Sony KF50WE610 LCD back and exchange it if I noticed a bad pixel (if I bought it, noticed the problem, and notified them right away). As for Sony warranty, the guy at the store said to draw a circle that touched the top and bottom of the screen. If there were 3 bad pixels in that circle, then Sony would do something about it under warranty.. |
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MI | Has anyone hooked up a pc to their philips? I did and I have a strange problem. Windows can not detect what resolutions the TV supports. So I had to usual manual setting. Once I put it to manual I could choose any resolution/refresh rate. I have to say wow this is a hugh computer monitor, and reading text on 1200X1024 is possible. Anyway this strange problem is causing problems with games that try to detect what your monitor supports so it doesn't go over the monitors refresh rate, etc. But since the TV doesn't report back any info on that, im stuck. Which sucks as I want to play my games on this TV. Anyone else try this yet? MI |
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Anonymous | I am trying to decide between the Hitachi 50v500 and the Samsung DLP. The 50v500 has a much better price tag and has amazing color and clarity. I understand there really isn't a burn in problem with either one which is a major concern due to video game play. Also, I have concerns about picture quality on regular t.v. Does anyone out there have any comments about which of the two is better? Miss V |
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John G | The Samsung DLP has a much better "jack panel" than the Hitachi sets, with more component video connections. If you use the DVI input on the Hitachi you lose one of only two component inputs. The Samsung also has an RGB computer input which the Hitachi lacks. Picture-wise, the 50v500 looks real good to me, if you can live with the dead pixels that are apparently more likely to happen in LCD sets than in DLP sets. Contrast is better on the DLPs, but from the reviews I have read, the Samsung looks outstanding using the DVI input but falls off using the other inputs. Get yourself a Samsung HDR-931 DVD player (or V Bravo D1) with DVI output, a satellite receiver with DVI output, and a Gefen HDTV Switcher (two DVI outputs) and the DLP will likely beat the Hitachi LCD. |
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Anonymous | Thanks for the response. The biggest concern is the dead pixels over time. The DVI inputs are less of a concern since I will be using the set for t.v. and games only. How long do the pixels typically last? Do you know specifically about how long the pixels last on the 50V500? Are they difficult to replace? I'm not technology savvy so I'm not sure of the right words. Miss V |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Pixels cannot be "replaced". All you can do is have an authorized dealer replace the entire LCD panel (in other words the whole screen). Undoubtedly this would be a very expensive repair if it's not covered by warranty! |
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digital surgeon | I have been following this great thread from the beginning. I posted way up above about preordering the Phillips 55" LCOS. Well, Pac-2000 emailed me a week before shipping to tell me they had made a "pricing mistake" and that I owed them another $900 to get the tv. Needless to say, I cancelled. Back at square one, I looked at the new options (Panasonic, new Sony, RCA DLP, Samsung DLP). The Panasonic PT50LC13 won hands down- here's why: Although there are some cons (bland styling, screendoor effect of LCD) the pluses are plentiful: 1080i, 720p, 480i, 480p Display Capability 16:9 Aspect Ratio with Selectable 4:3 Scan Mode PC/Video Split-screen Display PC Display (VGA,SVGA and XGA capability) PCMCIA & SD Slot DVI with HDCP Connectivity 1280 x 720 LCD Resolution 3D-Y/C Digital Comb Filter Progressive Scan Doubler 2-Tuner Picture-in-Picture with Split-Screen Display (RGB/Video and Video/Video) 3/2 Pulldown Most importantly, I get 50" for $2100 + shipping (arrival Oct. 6). All of these technologies are transitional at best. The way I figure it, the money I save now will go towards my 70" plasma in 2008! Keep this great thread going. ds |
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Anonymous | Digital Surgeon - I agree with you on the Panasonic - the picture is really good for the price - $2100 is a great price!! I've been seeing $2800 in the brick and mortar stores - i.e. circuit city, et. al. Sometimes it seems overwhelming - for the money you spend you want the best possible set - I want to avoid that feeling that I over looked something or "should have bought that set" - I think you will never really be able to feel 100% - you will have to compromise somewhere. Anyway - I'm hoping the holiday season will bring some good deals. I hear Sony has something coming out at the end of the year on LCD seats so I'll wait at least until then. Cheers - Detroit |
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Anonymous | How long will the pixels last for on an LCD like the 50V500? Miss V |
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| Dear Doctor Detroit.. I agree with you 100% and one trillion% but it's tough!! This is why I am waiting for Consumer Reports electronics issue to come out, it might be as late as March 2004 which would be on line and in the stores around 15 Feb. 2004, at least some of the hype and balony would be eliminated. As for the Sony LCD, it looks like it's going to come in at around $20,000 to start with plus, it will have the usual new product problems, stay in touch and let us know if something new comes along in the meantime. Sam in Dallas |
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david | panasonic, sony, samsung dlp, or the philips lcos at some point they all will have the problems if you are not lucky, best judge is to look at these sets and if the price is perfect for your budget than that buy it. far as lcd pixels last on lcd depends on the manufactor quality if it was samsung it would out last any. panasonic and sony, sony would last longer. its a real issue here many including my self confused if someone really have a choice here tell us what to pick. im waiting for lcos and most likley to purchase one |
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Tom Boyter | I have been following this thread since the beginning and have been considering/comparing the Cineos and the Sammy DLP. Finally had an opportunity to compare them side by side at the Hi-Fi Buys on Johnson's Ferry Road in Atlanta last weekend and my conclusion on both counts is "not ready for purchase". The Cineos had the purple color and the DLP had too much dithering and motion artifacts. Almost had my Precious One interested in the Samsung until the salesman switched the signal to regular cable, and predictably both sets were unwatchable. Her question was "why would we buy a tv that won't display our major source material?" I could only answer that we wouldn't !! Has anyone compared either of these sets to the JVC D'ILA offerings, especially the new 60" tabletop version shown at the CES this fall? Also seems to me that the HD2+ chipset from TI will offer some major improvements to the Samsung line and well worth waiting for. Does anyone know whether the ScramTech screens are being used on the current Samsung sets or is that an upcoming improvement? |
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| Hi- I was wondering if the problems with the Phillips (purple haze,rainbow) are still prevalent if you have Hgtv. My Phillips is on order and Im not a teckie....but now this web page has me woorried. If I haven't recieved my Phillips yet, do you tihnk the new batches of the Phillips is what I will receive? Thank you |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Tom - bear in mind that cable feed is not as good as satellite feed (with regards to standard definiton signals. Satellite is definately better - I think it's because the cable companies have such a bandwidth crunch to deal with, they use various techniques to compress the signal (hence lower quality). Ironically, the bandwidth problem has arisen because of HDTV! They are federally mandated to allocate a certain amount for high definition signals and HDTV needs a lot more than SDTV. I've also read in numerous articles that even HDTV signals get compressed a bit more by the cable companies and that satellite and especially off-the-air signals have better quality. You also have to consider the way the store was sending the signal to the big screen. There's a world of difference between component (which most stores use) and DVI, plus you can bet the cable feed they were using was being shared by all the rest of the sets in the shop, so it may have been attenuated somewhat (although that should not affect a digital signal too much). Lastly, I wonder what set-top box they were using. The quality of the scalar in the box is important and also whether they had the set top box set to feed the HDTV at the screen's native resolution (hence avoiding another up or down conversion). Of course lots of older 4:3 feed will never be that great, but it shouldn't look that crappy. Did you quiz the guys at the store on how they had it set up? |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | John made an important point about the need to use DVI for best quality. The review articles I read said the Samsung DLP looked outstanding when driven from DVI. It bothers me that the manufacturers are not thinking ahead and adding a 2nd DVI input for DVD players. Granted there are only one or two DVI capable DVD players out there at the moment, but I think that will jump in 2004. The problem of splitting a DVI feed seems to have been only addressed by Gefen so far. I had looked at the Gefen DVI switcher before but at about $ 250 it seemed way too steep for what it is. There is also the problem of having to share one DVI input for two different types of feed. Tough if you want to tweak the settings separately for DVD and Satellite signals because that leaves you up the creek without a paddle! John - do you know if the Gefen has an IR remote? Even if I decide to go that route, I have all my systems running off my MX-700 remote so being able to control it all from one remote is a must for me. |
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Detroit | Throughout these threads I am seeing the term "DVI". Is this a new connection protocol - i.e. is is something you plug you cable TV line into to assure a better picture? Or is it something you only plug your DVD player into (I guess this now means you have to have a DVD player compatible with DVI) Is DVI something that comes standard with new TV's? THanks for your input - Detroit |
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Detroit | Anna - it sounds to me like you should perhaps wait several months for Philips to correct the issues they are having for these first batch of TV's. I would continue to monitor this thread (and others) to hear when the know updated TV's become available. You should be able to tell if you have the corrected version by looking at serial numbers, batch numbers, manufacturing dates, etc. If you are dealing with reputable dealers, you can ask them that you are only buying if you are assured you have the latest version TV released by Philips (or whatever TV you are purchasing). You may want to wait for the March Consumer Report magazine which focuese on tV's. I am told it should be available on-line in mid-Feb. 2004 good luck and cheers. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Detroit: DVI = Digital Video Interface. It's an industry standard for transferring digital signals straight to the TV without having to first convert them to analog. In terms of quality of picture you will see on a high def TV, feeding it via composite is the lowest, component (Y Pb Pr) is the next up and DVI is the highest. If you connect a set top box to your HDTV via DVI, the signal is digital all the way so there are reduced artifacts from the digital-analog-digital conversion process. DVI also supports HDCP (high-bandwidth digital content protection). HDCP is a specification built into the circuit's memory chips that says the content being transmitted is copy-protected. If it has DVI but not HDCP, you could end up with either no picture on the screen or a reduced-resolution picture (1080i being down-converted to 480i or 480p). So specifically always ask if HDCP is enabled on any HDTV you consider buying. P.S. I dropped by my local Tweeter store this morning to check on the install and delivery dates for my DirecTV and big Sammy due in this week (can't wait!). Keeping in mind Tom's comments about bad 4:3 display quality I started playing around with their 50" Samsung DLP and 4:3 wasn't great really close-up but it was fine when viewed from a few feet away. I got a real surprise, however, when I discovered that they were driving the TV via composite! That made me feel a lot better as it can only get better from there. The Sammy's stretch mode was actually not bad too! |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | All - re Philips Cineos, I forgot to mention that the Manager at the local Tweeter store mentioned today that their Cineo delivery dates had been put back another 3 weeks. I don't think this is a supply problem - I think Philips know they have a quality issue. I'm glad I switched to the Samsung otherwise I'd be lucky to see something by Christmas. This delay ties in with what I had seen a dealer mention earlier on e-BAY. They are trying to address some "issues". |
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| Hello- Thanks, I was wondering if anyone else has been waiting for their Phillips? And if so do you think that Tweeter is awaiting them to put in the new improved versions? Also I do have satelite and was going to put HGTV through the satellite (of course with the Phillips) Any comment anyone...When is the new sony coming out and will it be a 50" and bigger? |
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heartdoc | I have been following this thread for a long while. I am one of the few with the Philips 55 inch. My first set arrived DOA and got replaced by tweeter within a couple of weeks. This set may have a little purple haze to it. The set at the Atlanta Johnson ferry road had a color issue for sure. My set looks as good as the new 56 inch Samsung that I set down and watched. The Samsung colors were a bit saturated-e.g. the green grass was too green, but blacks were really good. My cineos has very decent blacks. Philips says it does not black stretch, therefore you see more lighter blacks and fewer really deep blacks, which is more true to life. My biggest complaints are that the whites could be better, and the 4:3 mode pictures exhibit a slight but noteable pincushion effect. I have Comcast HD input, and if the local broadcast is 4:3 the bars are bent, and you can only zoom this a little. Pixel plus does not work with the high def inputs, so non HD channels suffer a little, but still are very watchable. I have not tried adding the S video input simultaneously. The remote does not set up for Comcast's Motorola boxes for some strange reason, even though there is one code for them.(and by the way, shame on Comcast for not activate the DVI output on their boxes) The Cineos menu is awkard, but I do not use this much except to adust picture settings. Overall, I am pleased with the set with only the Samsung 56 inch set looking close to this set in terms of picture. Aesthetically, the Cineos is gorgeous IMHA. Philips service is due to come check my set out next week although I they do not have any software upgrades yet. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | That's interesting input, Heartdoc. Thanks. It seems odd that ComCast would not activate the DVI output from their box - have you asked them why they do this? Perhaps their supplied box has some technical issues with the DVI standard so they disable it to keep support calls down. Anything they can do to reduce support calls will be attractive to them, even though it's not in the customer's interest. I have Knology and am fed up waiting for them to do HiDef so that's why I went with DirecTV so I won't have a similar issue. Unfortunately the supplied boxes with cable companies are usually pretty basic. Interesting you say the whites could be better - I had read this somewhere else too. I did read the menus were tiresome to navigate, but glad to hear you don't have to drill down into them too often. I remember reading that the Pixel-Plus feature only kicked in on the composite input but you would want to run any set like this on component or DVI if possible anyway. Very interesting to hear that you have Philips service coming out to check you set next week. Why is this - did you call them or did they call you? This would be a great time to quiz the tech on some of the concerns mentioned in this thread. If their tech works for Philips directly, he may not reveal much, but if he's a sub-contractor, you may get some interesting tidbits to share with us. Were you able to tweak the set to fix the color? It sounds like the "out of the box" factory defaults are not optimal and the Cineos could benefit from ISF calibration (not sure if their are many ISF techs with the right gear to calibrate a LCOS yet. Great input - this thread is really getting active! |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | P.S. Anna - it's ® HDTV ¬, not HGTV  |
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Anonymous | Should I wait for my 44" cineos or get something else? I am so confused. What is the ACTUAL release date?? |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | That may depend on who you talk to. According to the Manager at Tweeter here in Huntsville, they were pushed back 3 weeks which would put them in their warehouse at around the 1st week of November. |
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JJ | i'm interested in buying the new sony grand wega...60'' for mu husband, but i'm not sure what the model name/number is? can anyone help me? and does anyone know when it will be out in the market? Thanks very much. |
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| I compared side by side a Phillips LCOS 55PL9773, a Sony 60" LCD, and Panasonic 50" LCD at Fry's in San Marcos CA. The Phillips was more clear and defined from both close and far. The contrast was better. The viewing anlges was wider, and no screen door. The greens were not as bright and it had darker backgrounds. Not cheap at $3700, but this store had 30 in stock. It looked so good I am seriously considering the 55" over the 44", but want a lower price. Value wise, the Panasonic won the comparison, but the Phillips is breathtaking - I saw none of the flaws posted in it on this forum. |
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Anonymous | JJ, If you are talking about the new Grand Wega's with the 42" and 50" available now, the model number will be KF-50WE610. They retail for $3,999 and should be out in 2-3 weeks. If you are interested in the new XBR with the built-in-tuner, they are not due out until November. Your husband is a lucky guy. |
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MI | heartdoc - I would be intersted in knowing how you got philips to come out and check your set. I was one of the first with the TV and haven't had any of the problems listed. With that said, i still wouldnt mind a check up to make sure everything is good to go. The one interesting issue I ran into was when I hooked up my computer and the OS couldnt detect what the monitor supported. MI |
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Boston | I have been waiting for the Philips 55PL9773 Cineo that I ordered from Tweeter to arrive for 6 weeks now and the delivery date keeps getting pushed back. I have emailed Philips about the software and other issues raised in this discussion group and am waiting for a response. I will post the response if I receive one. In the meantime, I just read the review of the new Toshiba 57HLX83 in DVD etc. (99 ranking) and am wondering the following (the tv is not yet shown on Toshiba's website): (a) does anyone know when the Toshiba is arriving in stores, (b) is the 3 chip technology in the Toshiba better than the 1 chip in the Philips and why, (c) what were the problems others experienced with the Toshiba 57HLX82 and (d) how has Toshiba been able to reduce the price of what is supposedly a better tv by $2,500? Also, does the Toshiba have a feature similar to the Pixel Plus feature of the Philips that will supposedly dramatcally improve non HD signals? Even though it appears that the Toshiba will cost approximately $1,500 more than the Philips, do people believe the Philips might be worth the difference? |
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Groom-To-Be | Need Help: I have hln507w -DLP that is hooked up to Dish receiver that is just SA. Picture quality is not that good. What are the Service menu calibration/tweaks needed? |
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Boston | Re my earlier message of today: I should have asked whether people think the new 57" Toshiba might be worth the $1,500 difference in price over the Philips 55" Cineo |
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Tom Boyter | Lawrence - Thank you for your response to my post. I didn't ask the guy at HiFi Buys about the sd signal feed or the cabling, naively assuming that he would maximize the display quality on every source. I too have Knology in Columbus GA and am frustrated at their apparent lack of interest in going HD. I am very much looking forward to your future posts when you have had a chance to put your new Sam and the DirecTV to the test. I have been thinking that Samsung would be coming out with HD2+ rear projection sets around the first of the CY, and based on some reviews of front projectors seen at CEDIA it appears that much of the problems with the current technology (color wheel, mirror dimple, etc.) will have been addressed. I sort of feel that by early '04 both the Cineos and the Sammy will be quite different than they currently are and I should wait and hope. I may change my mind as we see how you like your new setup. You seem to be very up on things, and I am grateful to you and all of the more technically oriented who have written for this thread for sharing your expertise and experience. Sincerely TB |
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Anonymous | Hi Guys! Just thought I'd add yet another review of the Phillips LCOS vs the Samsung DLP. I purchased the Phillips 55PL9773 2 weeks ago and just returned it for a HLN507W this past weekend. The Phillips unit looked awesome with the Pixel-Plus on some scenes and looked better with the Pixel-Plus turned off in other scenes. Also, the Pixel-Plus image was extremely dependent on the quality of the incomming broadcast signal. After a few days of adjustments and critical viewing, I noticed a low-level purple "glow" developing about 3/4 of the way across the screen (left-to-right) and the size of about 3-4 softballs. It was hard to notice this purple crap in scenes with strong saturated colors but in low-level scenes and especially black & white images the scene content had a puple hue to it in this area. After noticing this flaw, I couldn't get my eyes off of it and it really began to bother me. If that wasn't enough, I saw rainbow effects all the time. Don't get me wrong, for most people, the image quality of the LCOS was more than adequate. But for me, I've been a displays electrical engineer with JVC for 10 years working with thier version of LCOS (D-ILA) so I'm intimately familiar with some of the problems with the LCOS technology. A significant problem with the LCOS is adequate (uniform) cooling of the chip. This is in fact what I observed with the purple problem in the display. It would take about 30-45 minutes for the purple problem to manifest itself. When I went back to Fry's to see if the display model exhibited the same problem, I found it was in the display model too. Because of this, I returned the LCOS unit and picked up the Samsung DLP. The DLP unit on the floor at Fry's looked like crap because it was setup (adjusted) so poorly. Once I tuned it up a bit with the remote, it looked awesome. The DLP is the technology that electronic cinema has chosen for the cinema projector development. DLP looks awesome with none of the color non-uniformity that is inherent with the LCOS technology. Compare a black & white image on the LCOS to the same on a DLP. There's no comparison! The Phillips LCOS system also uses (3) rotating prisms as opposed to the DLP single color wheel. From a reliability standpoint, a (3) motor solution has a better chance for failure than a single motor version. Also Phillips claims their striped scanning technique is 30% more efficient than the color wheel approach and it is. However, what they don't tell you is that the light that actually makes it to the LCOS chip has to pass through a lossy beam-splitting polarizer. DLP does not require the polarizer element so for Phillips to claim any light output superiority is misleading. Another item with the Phillips unit that I found irritating was the gamma curve response. The whites were too bright and in order to get them within a reasonable range by reducing the contrast, the rest of the image would be too dim. The DLP image is crisp, uniform, and accurate and I am way-satisfied with the image. Unfortunately, I was disappointed with the LCOS image, but, I also believe it's a viable technology that still needs some time to get all of the bugs worked out. If you really want the best overall image for the money, then DLP is the only way to go. As a side note, I have not observed any of the rainbow effects in the DLP unit that I observed regularly in the LCOS unit! If you want to know more about my likes and dislikes regarding the Phillips LCOS unit, email me at bsmith1@surfaceoptics.com |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Hi Tom - thanks for the follow up and kind comments. I dropped by Tweeters today and my satellite install doesn't start until Friday now (I'll believe it when I see the guy at my door). They did tell me the Sammy's were in the warehouse, though so it looks like I can get it delivered on Wednesday! Unfortunately, I'm still two weeks away from them getting the new Sony SAT-HD300 in stock, so I won't be able to get high-def until then. Dang! I'm aware that there are probably some exciting new models coming out in 2004, but after a year of reading reviews, magazines, forums and countless visits to Best Buy, Circuit City and Tweeter etc., I can wait no longer!! BTW, The sales staff at Best Buy are dreadfully lacking in training in this area. One guy in the HDTV dept. had no idea what a scalar was far less why you would need one and got quite off with me when I asked any technical questions. He didn't realize I was a serious customer with quite a few grand to spend. Some of the conversations I overheard between Best Buy sales staff and various customers (victims?) made me cringe. None of this is wise when Circuit City (not much better, mind you) are a few doors along and Tweeter (much much better) is practically across the road. The guys at Tweeter win hands down in the technical expertise dept and want your business. I did buy various items on the web (much cheaper) but I baulked at buying the big screen that way even though I could have saved hundereds of dollars. At least Tweeter are just up the road if I have problems. Anonymous's "Phillips LCOS vs the Samsung DLP" comparison was very interesting and I think he has nailed the cause of the infamous Purple Bars issue and he has the technical background to understand the LCoS engine. His comments about white balance levels match other comments I have seen. As I said before, I'm sure in a year's time, Philips and the others will have LCoS TV's giving DLP a run for their money, but they need to fix the bugs first - and by that time Samsung may have a 3rd generation set out and their current series 2 sets already have solid reliablity. I don't hear of many Sammy DLP problems out there. |
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Another Shopper | Just another shopper getting ready to head back out AGAIN. Just want to say thanks for all I have read here. BIG HELP and offers a lot of questions to ask at the retailer. I am heading to Tweeter now. I will post with anything I find out. BY THE WAY...I did call about the Phillips at Tweeter. They are not carrying it as of now due to the problems. They mentioned that Toshiba has already gone thru this and for now he suggest to stay away from the technology until they get the bugs out. Thanks for all the info people!!! |
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| Forgive me for beating the dead horse to death but Consumer Reports T.V. issue will be out in early November with the December issue, interested buyers might to hold their horses until that data is available and analyzed by all of us. $4000.00 for a b--b tube is a lot of mullah, no margin for error or mistake. |
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Anonymous | I would assume that issue is at most news stands when it comes out? Or do we have to subscribe to it? |
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| It should arrive on newsstands starting around Nov. 4th. so, subscribers should receive theirs in the mail around Nov. 4 also, it may appear to online subscribers a few days sooner. |
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| Hi all! Let me first say that I have read just about every article/review on the Philips LCOS TV, and I have done about as much research as I can on this cutting edge technology. And although I have read all of the concerns regarding the "purple haze", "rainbow effect", etc, I still placed the order for one last week. I figure I have nothing to lose. The guy at Hi-Fi Buys guaranteed me that I could keep the TV for up to 30 days before I had to bring it back for a refund. And I could even keep it for up to 60 days if I only wanted to exchange it. So why not take it home and judge the performance for myself. That's really the only way to get a TRUE test of it's performance, rather than in a show room. Also, I was finally able to get a reply from Philips regarding the recall of the LCOS TV's. This is what the tech said: "Thank you for your e-mail regarding your interest in our Cineos TVs. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you. All new technologies are by definition new. Often manufacturers have become aware of improvements that can be made to the product after the first shipments have occurred and the customer feedback is received from the retail partners and/or the end customer. Philips has become aware of a Color Tracking improvement that can be made to the existing product design, which will greatly enhance the picture performance of the already exceptional Cineos televisions. Philips has slowed shipments down in order to test and ensure that this new improvement is fully realized in all sets. Regular retail shipments will resume in the second week of October 2003. In the mean time the product has been delivered to: The Good Guys Frys Tweeter (Hi-FI Buys) Bose And other electronic retailers. If there is anything else we can assist you with, please do not hesitate to contact us via e-mail or chat. Go to PhilipsUsa.com and click on the "Contact US" Link and choose the medium you wish to use." Now, I know Philips probably sugar coated it a bit in giving the reason for the recall, but I just feel that Philips is just too good a company and has too much to lose to let a problem like this damage there reputation. Furthermore, if this was a problem that they couldn't fix with certainty, you would no doubt see a huge fallout from stores like Hi-Fi Buys, Tweeter, etc. Yes, I actually believe that everything will be just fine. And if not, so what, I'll just return it, and wait for the problems to be resolved or move on to another TV. I got some great news today from a guy at Hi-Fi Buys. He said not only will the shipment of the Philips LCOS TV's be on schedule for October 15, but I should get mine in several days before. Well, I will believe that when I see it, but good news nevertheless. And all new shipments will include the fix. Your thoughts? |
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Anonymous | Saw the Hitachi as well. Had a beautiful picture. I have been looking at that TV along with the Sony 50WE610,the Samsung HLN507W and the Phillips LCoS 55PL9973. But after all the research I have done...I think DLP is the way to go for spending this kind of money. I don't feel like playing tennis with Sony or any other manufacturer over LCD problems. Especially for the cake were spending on these units! Granted MOST Can't be seen, But knowing my luck I will get the one dead center and bright green! There are NO perfect LCD displays. They ALL come with defects. Ask anyone in the manufacturing end of LCD's. They will tell you that they are not going to be perfect. EVER! All I know is seeing that DLP and LCD are both so new, I feel that DLP is a much more "serviceable" TV at this point. I am definitely leaning towards the Samsung DLP. I don't find nowhere near the problems/complaints with the Samsung units from what I am reading all over the net in comparison to LCoS ond LCD units. I like the other TV's all for different reasons, But what it really boils down to is what will last! I thought this post was interesting from another forum: I purchased the Phillips 55PL9773 2 weeks ago and just returned it for a HLN507W this past weekend. The Phillips unit looked awesome with the Pixel-Plus on some scenes and looked better with the Pixel-Plus turned off in other scenes. Also, the Pixel-Plus image was extremely dependent on the quality of the incomming broadcast signal. After a few days of adjustments and critical viewing, I noticed a low-level purple "glow" developing about 3/4 of the way across the screen (left-to-right) and the size of about 3-4 softballs. It was hard to notice this purple crap in scenes with strong saturated colors but in low-level scenes and especially black & white images the scene content had a puple hue to it in this area. After noticing this flaw, I couldn't get my eyes off of it and it really began to bother me. If that wasn't enough, I saw rainbow effects all the time. Don't get me wrong, for most people, the image quality of the LCOS was more than adequate. But for me, I've been a displays electrical engineer with JVC for 10 years working with thier version of LCOS (D-ILA) so I'm intimately familiar with some of the problems with the LCOS technology. A significant problem with the LCOS is adequate (uniform) cooling of the chip. This is in fact what I observed with the purple problem in the display. It would take about 30-45 minutes for the purple problem to manifest itself. When I went back to Fry's to see if the display model exhibited the same problem, I found it was in the display model too. Because of this, I returned the LCOS unit and picked up the Samsung DLP. The DLP unit on the floor at Fry's looked like crap because it was setup (adjusted) so poorly. Once I tuned it up a bit with the remote, it looked awesome. The DLP is the technology that electronic cinema has chosen for the cinema projector development. DLP looks awesome with none of the color non-uniformity that is inherent with the LCOS technology. Compare a black & white image on the LCOS to the same on a DLP. There's no comparison! The Phillips LCOS system also uses (3) rotating prisms as opposed to the DLP single color wheel. From a reliability standpoint, a (3) motor solution has a better chance for failure than a single motor version. Also Phillips claims their striped scanning technique is 30% more efficient than the color wheel approach and it is. However, what they don't tell you is that the light that actually makes it to the LCOS chip has to pass through a lossy beam-splitting polarizer. DLP does not require the polarizer element so for Phillips to claim any light output superiority is misleading. Another item with the Phillips unit that I found irritating was the gamma curve response. The whites were too bright and in order to get them within a reasonable range by reducing the contrast, the rest of the image would be too dim. The DLP image is crisp, uniform, and accurate and I am way-satisfied with the image. Unfortunately, I was disappointed with the LCOS image, but, I also believe it's a viable technology that still needs some time to get all of the bugs worked out. If you really want the best overall image for the money, then DLP is the only way to go. As a side note, I have not observed any of the rainbow effects in the DLP unit that I observed regularly in the LCOS unit! |
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Anonymous | that post was for another forum...sorry...but still...thanks for the info on the LCoS! Very helpful!!! |
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| I respect what you said about the Philips LCOS. But please keep in mind that the majority of the people who have experienced these problems did not have the FIX applied to their TV. I want to hear from anyone who has actually bought or seen the Philips LCOS in the store that has had the FIX applied. I bet you want hear any criticism. Let's just wait to see the FIX applied and see if the problems persist. |
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heartdoc | I had the Philips service tech out to check my 55PL977S LCOS set. The colors are very close to where they are supposed to be. I have not had the purple haze issue yet. While I thought the whites were off a little, they are actually very very good. I looked at the newest samsung DLP on the HiFi showroom--way too saturated-eg. green grass on a live football HD feed. The LCOS colors are very natural and I am 99% pleased with my set so far after watching comcast INHD broadcasts of Full Metal Jacket and US Tennis Open, and ESPN HD baseball playoffs. He said the software fix is coming for all sets initially released. The production plant was closed down for a few day while they upgraded and put the new software on all sets being made now. Philips is standing behind this product. Customer service has been excellent so far. |
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david | Even though the new batch of 55pl977s Lcos with new software fixed, what it about the cooling problem that Lcos might have in the future. and is it going to last at least 5yrs. |
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| Heartdoc, thank you for your post. That was just the reassurance I needed. So I assume you got one of the TV's with the fix applied? Did the tech say anything else of importance? After your positive post, I really can't wait for the order to come in!! |
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| Heartdoc, you mentioned that you are using Comcast cable. I also have Comcast. However, all I've been hearing is people saying the I should move to Direct TV and buy a HD reciever for a better overall reception for even non-HD channels. How would you judge the non-HD channels with Comcast on the Philips? Will Comcast suffice? |
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Boston | The following is a chat I had with Philips Support regarding the Cineo "purple haze" problem. I have only deleted personal info and extraneous chat. Although all of my questions were not answered directly, Philips seems to be assuring customers that the problem has been fixed, that the projected delivery date at Tweeter of Oct. 15 is still good and that all of the new tv's will have the fix incorporated. I would be interested in any input from others. The chat follows: ngordon says, "Thank you for contacting Philips Web Chat. My name is Neil. How may I assist you today?" You say, "I have ordered the new 55" Cineo TV and have been reading a lot about the "purple haze" problem that the original shipment of tv's had. My order has been delayed three times now and I have been told by Tweeter that it will arrive on Oct. 15. What was causing the problem and has it now been fixed?" ngordon says, "Philips has become aware of a limited number of products shipped to market on which the white point has displayed a tendency to exaggerate colors in the purple color spectrum under the selected video conditions. Improvements to the Color Tracking have been developed. The improvements will be implemented and tested in a production environment within the upcoming days. " You say, "If testing is just now ocurring, is there any assurance that new shipments will have the problem fixed. I am skeptical about an arrival date of Oct 15 if the fix has not yet been implemented." ngordon says, "The fix will be implemented Bill." You say, "do you still anticipate that new shipments will arrive at the Tweeter stores on Oct. 15" ngordon says, "Yes." You say, "Is the fix something that can be done to fix the original tv's or is it something that can only be included in a new production run. Also, is there a way to tell by model # or manufacture date that the tv includes the fix. I would like to avoid receiving a tv that has not yet been fixed." ngordon says, "The reason for the delay in shipping is that Philips has realized the problem. And now they are presently running tests to correct the problem. So you should have a proper working TV when Tweeter delivers your TV." You say, "I guess my only concern is the difference between running tests to correct the problem versus having actually fixed the problem. Maybe we are talking about the same thing. If the problem has actually been fixed, based on your answers I should be comfortable that I will receive a tv on Oct. 15 that does not have the problem. If tests are still being run, I am concerned that the problem may still arise. Am I misunderstanding something?" ngordon says, "You will be comfortable when you receive the product Bill. Because as stated above there is a limited number of products which has this problem, and to find the problem Philips has to run tests to notify the problem and correct it. " |
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heartdoc | Leonard, I have been very pleased with the Comcast reception. For $5 more a month, why go to Cable and buy another $500 box. The nonHD channels are still quite good and as good as satallite as far as I can tell. The pictures are a bit grainer, and zoomed up compared to the HD channels. But what is nice is having local channels, INHD, ESPN, HBO all in a row without the junk channels to surf through. The Philips pixel plus does a nice job, but with the HiDef Comcast box, the signial is being fed throught the RGB component cables. The DVI connector on the box is not active yet as far as I have been told. I presently have a long cable run to my set, but the Comcast tech checked the levels which are good enough but can not be resplit. Comcast can supply a two way amplifier if needed. I am contimplating upgrading my RG6 cable to QuadShield RG6($70 dollars for 500 foot spool at Home Depot). They use Digicon connectors which the tech feels are "like gold". HD on comcast on the LCOS is as good as I've seen compared to satallite or HD VCR boxes at HIFI buys. |
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John G | Re: Anonymous JVC electrical engineer. If the purple haze problem is caused by non-uniform "cooling" of the LCoS chip, I don't see any quick or cheap fix for that problem. P.S.: How could they have missed that during develoment, doesn't anyone actually sit down and watch these sets in operation before putting them on the market--I mean for more than 10 minutes at a stretch. You would think they would leave several units on for several days to see if temperature problems developed. But, oops, thats why they recalled the Toshiba 57HL82 LCoS set for overheating after extended use, isn't it? Guess if my 55PL977S ever shows up at Tweeter, I'll have to spend more than a few minutes checking it out! |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Well I'm sitting here waiting for the Tweeter van. Supposed to be here in 5 minutes with my Sammy 61" DLP! Just spent 2 hours tidying up the rats nest behind my rack - an darn expensive one mind you - I reckon I have over well over $750 in Monster interconnects. Tweeter wanted a whopping $ 199 for a Monster DVI - got the same one on the web for $125 with cheap next day FedEx. I'll report back soon. I don't get my satellite install until Friday so for now it will be just DVD and low-grade composite TV feed from my system being fed from the Knology cable box. I'm not expecting great TV results today. My Sony SAT-HD300 is a week or two away as well so even on Friday, it will not be high-def - just feed from a Samsung SIRS-300 borrowed from another room, and I doubt the scalar and 3:2 pull-down is anywhere as good as the new Sony's will be so it will put the Sammy's video processing to the test. I got lucky yesterday and found someone had posted the discrete codes for the 50" Sammy on a MX-700 forum (should be the same for the 61" I'm getting). These were only released to a select number of Samsung users a few months ago as part of sort of test marketing thing they did on their web site and they didn't make them available to everyone. I've already imported the codes into my MX-700 so I'll know soon whether they work or not. |
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Anonymous | Whare are these "discrete codes" you mention? |
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al in SC. | to: Lawrence in al hey I heard that, with ur new sammy try the nwe samsung HD DVD using the dvi cable. Its wonder it shows like everything in hd one of delivery guy at tweeter had hook one on their customer sammy that they just bought. and the delivery gut sad "incredible" Also does anyone knows about philip lcos due in october is worth waitng for. and it will last like sammy DLP. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Anonymous: Discrete codes provide a separate (discrete) code each for OFF and ON function. If an off/on button just toggles off and on it's not discrete and so it makes it real hard to program a remote control that can utilize macros to turn features on and off. Without discrete codes, if you want to turn the TV on (but it is already on) it will turn off instead, which is not the desired result. Unfortunately, many of the large screen TV's do not have discrete codes for many of the functions. Also Samsung's remote, for example, requires you to toggle through a menu to select the input source (DVI, component, video etc) you want. The discrete codes I mentioned in an earlier post that were for the Samsung 50" control the input selection for my new 61" perfectly, so I'm able to program my MX-700 to turn everything on in perfect sequence for each source (DVD, TV, VCR etc.) from just one button (which then jumps to the correct menu on the MX-700 for the chosen device). It means I do not have to have 10 remotes on the coffee table. My wife loves it and actually condoned the expense!! (They are not cheap). For a comprehensive review of the MX-700, visit: http://www.remotecentral.com/mx700/index.html Well - I'm still playing with me new Sammy 61", so I'll sign off now and provide you all with a full report soon. It's great! |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | AL in SC: Yes, I already have a Monster DVI cable standing by, but I don't get my Sony-SAT300HD for a week or two so it's still in the blister pack. In fact until I get the rest of the wiring done, the only TV I have is from my cable box in low def and fed through video or UHF so it's a bit grainy and noisy (as expected). Right now I'm working my way through the new Video Essentials DVD and doing some basic tweaking. The sample output from the VE DVD looks stunning in progressive mode through component inputs. |
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Anonymous | Leonard - Good question on cable vs. satellite - I have been wondering the same thing. I have comcast digital cable and when I get a nice TV I'll be asking the same question as you. March 2003 Consumer Report had good write-up on Digital vs. cable. From what I've heard, Sat. likely has a better picture, but you need to buy an expensive converter box for HDTV. Cable has to compress bandwidth so perhaps the HDTV signal is likely not as good (assuming you can tell the difference). Cable HDTV is only about $10/mo. over digital cable in my area (Detroit). With digital cable you get video on demand which I never use On Sat. it seems you get better HDTV selection (HDNet, HBO-HD, etc.) However, you have to pay $3-$4 extra for local channels. Anyway, I'll likely try Sat. eventually when I get my good TV in the next several months. I have digital cable now and I am not sure what I am paying extra for (accept the extra channels) - the picture does not seem that much different vs. basic cable. Based on what I've heard, if you really want to ensure the best picture on HDTV, etc. Sat. is likely the way to go. Cheers - Bill |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Anonymous re cable vs satellite I'll be able to give my experience in a day or two. I have Knology and get DirecTV this Friday. As I have not got any set top boxes till then, I'm having to feed my new Samsung 61" DLP via UHF right now which is a worst-case scenario and I've actually been pleasantly surprised with the results (but some channels are not so good). I look forward to even better quality from DirecTV and in two weeks I go high-def via DVI. The wait is killing me! Incidentally, std. 4:3 in Panoramic mode is pretty darn good with only extreme edge stretch being noticeable. Having just moved to widescreen, I had concerns about how 4:3 would look in widescreen mode, but Samsung's Panoramic mode is very good and I doubt I'd view anything in native 4:3 again. The big screen sure does show up poor quality feed however and some stations are not as good as others. Text on screen (station logos and ticker bars) seem to vary widely in quality. I'm sure this will be resolved when I get satellite feed. DVD's look stunning on this set, although dark scenes are predictably not so good on DLP. I never noticed it before on a regular TV, but now I can see differences in DVD quality showing up. I have done minimal tweaking on the TV as much of yesterday was spent re-programming and tweaking my MX-700 remote to incorporate the new set's functions. Once I have high def running, I'll spend more time tweaking it. More soon... |
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Anonymous | Lawrence - You are "the man" when it comes to TV's - I enjoy reading your posts. Look forward to hearing about your satellite TV set-up. Friday is almost here. Bill |
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| Guys, I have some bad news to report. I just got off the phone with a guy at HiFi Buys. I was calling to check on the status of my Philips LCOS TV order. I was told about a week ago that the shipment was scheduled for Oct 15. I know we all were told that right? Well, the guy told me that the scheduled date of Oct 15 has been removed from the system. I asked him what does that mean(knowing full well what it meant), and he said that usually means the date has been pushed back. I don't know about you guys, but I don't know how much more patient I can be, when know one, not even Philips can give us a reliable shipment date. I just hope this latest delay does not imply more problems with the TV's. |
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Boston | Same report here. Until today, Tweeter also had Oct. 15 as the delivery date in its system. Today, the date was removed and December 4 showed up. Tweeter has no idea why and, in fact, Philips seems to be keeping Tweeter in the dark about the product defects. I contacted Philips customer service and was told my tv (which I ordered in August) would be delivered to Tweeter by October 31. Upon further quizzing, it became apparent to me, however, that Philips has no idea when the tv's will be delivered and that, in fact, it is still running tests to try to solve the "purple haze" problem. I would be interested in knowing what other people are being told. It is easy to contact Philips through the chat link on its website. Perhaps if enough people inquire and/or complain, Philips will decide to be forthright about the situation. I have heard enough good things about the tv that I am willing to wait a certain amount of time, but the constant 2 week extensions are about to lead me to another brand. Has anyone seen the new Toshiba 57HLX83 recently reviewed in DVD ETC. magazine? Is it time to give up and move on to the Samsung? What is the best tv for less than $6000? |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Phew - I'm glad I canceled my LCos order and went with the DLP! I would hate having to wait that long. My wife and the girls are home and just love the new Samsung! We're seeing details in DVD's we never saw before so it looks like we'll be going back through our whole collection.  My daughter is watching The Grinch Who Stole Christmas right now. Perhaps in a few week's time I'll get near it....! More soon! |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Bill - thanks for your comments! |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | By the way everyone - no rainbows. Nada. In fact I've never yet seen this effect on the DLP's I've seen on display at stores either. I've spent the last 24 hours watching all sorts of material from low-grade TV to Superbit DVD's and the new Video Essentials calibration DVD. Zero rainbow effect. I'm also pleased to see it switches on quickly - I have read some systems (I think the LCoS was one of them) take about 30 seconds to come on. That's actually quite a long time. You can see a slight flicker on the Samsung for just a few seconds (say 5-10 secs) and then the picture stabilizes at almost full contrast. A neat feature is PIP (Picture-in-Picture). I set this up to display the CCTV system I have outside the house so if the doorbell rings I can press a button and see who's there without interrupting what I'm watching. Now is that lazy or what? |
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| Lawrence - A LAZY man would just send his daughter to the door ... you are RESOURCEFUL ! Tom Boyter |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Thanks for that comment Tom! Yes, resourceful is better than lazy! I've been adding more Samsung functions to the MX-700 remote this morning. I don't have discrete codes for some of the options like the Color one (Normal, Warm, Cool etc.), but I managed to write macros to do the job. One thing I have noticed about the Samsung is that the MX-700 sometimes has difficulty reading the IR stream when in learning mode. Some buttons took 4 or 5 tries to get it right. It must be the samsung IR code stream, I guess. Also, I have to add a 0.1 second delay between each macro step in the MX-700 otherwise it doesn't work right and I end up running the wrong options in the menus and the TV goes off into la la land somewhere and I have to figure out what options were incorrectly selected in order to backtrack! Anyway I got it figured out. It's 9:10 am and the satellite installer was supposed to here 15 minutes ago. I have 6 rooms to be wired plus an attic off-air antenna so it's a full day job. My wife wants her HBO! |
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| Thanks to all of you for the great discussion in this forum. I followed it for months. SPECIAL THANKS TO DSPERATEinMI. You saved my day!!! I had ruled out the Philips due to significant quality issues and the negative review (I posted the link earlier in this discussion). After waiting for months for my Samsung HLN507, trying to get it from multiple different on-line retailers, I started looking at the RCA. When it was offered at e-bay by shopsunshine.com I could not wait any longer. Well, since Tuesday (after a little more than 10 days) it is now sitting in my living room. It is just awesome. The colors, the brightness (I switched the lamp to long-life mode, which dims it down a notch as it was just too bright in normal mode). A guy at Fry's had told me that the DLP would generate a blurry picture when fast moves are displayed (e.g. fighting scenes in The Metrix). Well that was the first DVD I played. The picture is just great. The big advantages of the RCA are the build in HDTV tuner, Internet connection, Fire Wire connections and the universal remote control. If you are worried about the quality of the product buy an extended in-house warranty. I covered my unit for 4 years (parts and labor). But I would have done that with every other unit as well. |
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Boston | Georg Which RCA did you buy? |
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| After reading all the comments and viewing everything from CRT's to plasmas I have come to some conclusions. Plasmas look great but even the 50" models are too expensive. LCD'S, DLP'S and LCOS all show promise but are still full of bugs or weak points. Let the technologies fight it out and in the process they will become less expensive (comparable to todays CRT's) and all the bugs will be worked out. I don't need to go home with my $4k-$5k set and keep fretting over whether or not I will see rainbows, purple haze or pink elephants. Rather than being their test market I'll buy a CRT HDTV and in a couple of years I'll see how these new technologies are doing. A good CRT set has all the bugs worked out and costs $2K less than these new sets. In 2 years their prices will be down to $2500-$3000 so if I spend $2500 now and another $2500 in 2 years I'll have an LCOS or DLP that works and will have spent the same amount of money. Hey in 2 years there may be something even better based on sub-atomic particles or dylithium crystals. Who knows? The point is, being the first to jump on board with a new technology is risky and expensive. It nearly always has flaws and whatever is new today is old in 12-18 months. Another advantage of waiting is there will be high definition DVD's on the market to take advantage of these new sharper technologies. A good CRT set still has a great picture. Mitsubishi has a 73" set with 9" lenses that has a beautiful picture. They soon will be releasing a 65" with the same 9" lens. This should produce a spectacular CRT image. Mits is also getting ready to introduce an 82" LCOS. It is in their 2004 catalog so it isn't far off. This shows where all this is heading. The manufacturers will all be battling to see who can produce the biggest and the prices will drop on the smaller screens. Sounds familiar doesn't it? |
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heartdoc | All I can say to y'all is that I am really enjoying my Philips LCOS presently. This set was cheaper than the Samsungs and as a far as I can see, the colors are much better and its ability to handle analog inputs which are family does a lot(non HD cable channels). I think one has to wait and actually see these sets before judgements are made. Yes, there were some QA issues, but the company can make a great set and customer support had been great so far. I think the price difference of $1000 is worth it. My set is now in our keeping room, installed on the bookcase which is 24" deep and 30" high. The middle section was expanded from 44" to 65". |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | The single biggest problem for me with CRT's is the viewing angle. In my family room we have a L shaped settee and one end of it views the screen at an angle. I just couldn't find a CRT that didn't cut off contrast sharply at that position, otherwise I would have been glad to save a couple of grand. |
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Anonymous | Michael, I have a Samsung 46" DLP -- no problems -- great picture (I mean GREAT) -- no burn in / screen aging -- PC ready -- only 16" deep and 30" high, 74 lbs (!!!), replaceable lamp (no plasma fading), 160 degree Horizontal Viewing Angle, HDTV ready (DVI, 720p!!! w/o converting), no convergence issue (damn CRT with 9 lenses!?) for USD 3,500 with a 3 years service plan. I love the set and don't want to miss it anymore. Yeah, there will be better sets out there in two to four years but then the Samsung will still be a great monitor for the den hooked up to my ultimate gaming machine (Xbox II HD and my PC with a HDTV tuner). I don't know why you see DLP as an "immature" technology -- it's second generation and all over the place (every decent video projector is nowadays DLP). CRT is the past -- all the other technologies are now and the future. And I am not going to spend 5,000 bucks on a 73" Mitsubishi 380 lbs monster that uses yesterday technology and only fits into my garage. |
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Joe Hendrix | I'm very much leaning towards getting the Samsung DLP. Most of the posts have had people hooking them up with Direct TV. Has anyone hooked these TVs up with Dish Network? How is the picture going through NON HD Dish Network? Also, does anyone know if/when Samsung will be coming out with TVs with the newer HD2+ chip that Texas Instruments had just announced a couple weeks back? |
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| Heartdoc, when did you order your LCOS, and when did you actually recieve it at your home? I'm trying to see if you got one of the fixed TV's or if you just got lucky and recieved one before the fix that just happens to work with no issues. You seem to be amoung the VERY few who even have one. and I guess I must be in the minority who is still standing by this TV. But I am. I don't care what has happened. I'm going to hang in there and wait. At least until something comes out that is CLEARLY a better TV. So far I haven't seen anything out that is better than this. |
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heartdoc | Leonard, I am with you. My set came a month ago. It was part of the original shipment. I had one of the very first sets delivered, but it wouldn't turn on, so HiFi buys got me one, apparently from a customer who changed his mind(I guess). The tech who came to the house checked the unit said it was working good. The comcast guy said he hooked one up at one of the local Philips executives here in Atlanta. College football on ESPN HD looked great again. |
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Mike - SF | Has anyone heard about the new Sony Grand Wega LCD Projection? I saw this set at a GoodGuys in the Bay Area and was pretty impressed, but have not been able to find any reviews on this anywhere since it's so new. The model I viewed is the KF42WE610 - Thanks for any input on this one! |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | 2mm WHITE SPOT APPEARS ON NEW SAMSUNG 61" DLP.  TURNS OUT TO BE JUST A BAD SET TOP BOX! Yikes! Just two days after getting my nice new DLP, I switched it on Saturday morning and saw a white spot on the lower left screen (bigger than a stuck pixel on a Sony LCD - more like 4-5 pixels in size (I know DLP does not have "pixels" as such). A quick switch over to DVD told me the screen was OK, so I swapped the set top box out with one from our master bedroom and the spot was gone! I also noticed the color and picture quality on the bad box had suddenly deterioated. This is the temporary plain-vanilla Samsung SIRS-300W as my Sony SAT-300HD arrives later this week. Tweeter quickly swapped out the bad box for me. So far so good with the Sammy, but I have some signal interference on my new Sat feed that I'm trying to track down. It's most noticeable on DirecTV channel 200 with the blue background. Instead on solid blue, I have about 24 vertical purplish bands on top of the blue, that shimmer a bit. Any TV channel I view that has program material with blue or shades of red/violet display this effect. It may be a signal strength problem, (I have 8 rooms wired through a Terk 5x8 splitter with only 4 rooms actually connected to TV's at the moment). I tried to get a ChannelMaster UHF amp today but ended up just locating some RCA in-line signal boosters at Radio Shack that boost it by +10dB, but I didn't see any difference. It's only really noticeable on the big screen, but you can see it to a lesser degree on the regular TV's too. The temporary Samsung SIRS-300W I am using only has S-Video or standard RCA outputs - I tried both and also switched input channels on the Sammy but still get the bars. It could be some intereference it's picking up from something, but I never had this before. The clue is a faint pulsating hum I can detect from my sub. It's not a ground loop as the sub is not grounded and feeds from my Monster DTS-5100 so it is isolated and I never had the problem before this week. Anyone had problems with Terk splitters? The plot thickens.... |
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Bill - Detroit | Mike SF - I have seen the Sony Grand Wega Best Buy and Circuit City here in Detroit. I think the look good as well. The 50-inch was about $3100 and the 60-inch was $3800. I think the 42-inch was $2880. The picture looks real good - at least in the store. I was thinking of the 60-inch. From a picture standpoint, it compares well with the DLP models - I am not sure the extra $1000 for a DLP is worth it - unless there is more flexibility on the TV can do and hook-up to. The set has real nice styling as well. I want to lok at the Phillips LCOS once they get the bugs worked-out. Also, the Sammy DLP's are nice - but is it worth the extra dollars? I am waiting for the Consumers Report TV issue. Cheers - Bill - Detroit |
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Bill - Detroit | Lawrence - You sound like you are in heaven now that you have your satellite connected. When you refer to your Sony Sat-300, is this the box you need to receive HDTV signals from the satellite? Also, did you have to get a special shaped dish to receive HDTV signals - I am told you need to get a slightly different shaped dish because direct TV has a special satellite that beams only HDTV signals (i.e. one of their 3 satellites). Also, is Digital cable a waste of money? I am told "basic cable" is sent-out at 300-400 lines of resolution which is similar to what basic network TV sends-out. Digital cable is about 400-500 lines of resolution - a bit better but not sure if this translates into a really better picture for the extra money. Seems like digital may not really be all that it is marketed as by Comcast. Bill - Detroit |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Bill - Yes, you need a set top box to receive satellite signals. I have 4 x Samsung SIRS-300W's for our 3 bedrooms and the recreation room and the Sony SAT-HD300 will be for the main family room. I have an elliptical dish with the 3 LNB's needed for HDTV. The Sony is an HDTV receiver, the Samsungs are not. Digital cable can be good but "digital" does not necessarily mean "high definition" so make sure your cable company also carries high-def signals. Mine (Knology) was dragging its feet so I was missing out, but the signal was digital so it was pretty decent. The main benefit of digital is that the signal is less subceptible to interference. You either get a signal (or not) and you don't get the "snow" that a weak analog signal can produce. Whether the feed is at a high resolution or not is incidental. At the end of the day, it is your TV that dictates what resolution it can display. If your TV can display the better resolution, then that's good. There's another reason satellite is better -- the problem you run into is that you are at the mercy of the set top box that your cable provider supplies. They never supply expensive tuners so you don't get a DVI (Digital Video Interface) connector (the best because there's no analog to digital conversion). You don't even get component output (Y Pr Pb), which is decent and what most decent DVD players use. You only get standard video or composite which is not nearly as good. Cable companies also do more signal compression on their feed to there's bound to be some loss of quality there too. Regarding my last post, I solved the sub-woofer hum. I had previously hooked it's AC cord into the switched output on the rear of my main amplifier but after rerouting everything, I had plugged it directly into the Monster DTS-5100. What I discovered was that I only got the hum if the amplifier was powered off - as soon as it powered on, the hum went away (the hum was not loud, but slightly perceptible). Presumably the amp clamps the circuit somehow. Anyway a quick cable re-route fixed the problem. I have it hooked up via a 25ft Monster sub-woofer THX interconnect which costs a small fortune, so I'm sure the cable was not at fault. I'll have to wait until early next week to solve the signal problem I mentioned, but it's not as bad as it was. I'm hoping a ChannelMaster UHF amp will fix the problem. |
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Jas | I have been following this group for a while and I drove 100 miles to check the Phillips Cineos on display at a Tweeter store. Even looking beyond the purple hue, it is no match to Samsung DLP sets. I am leaning more towards the Samsung HLN507W now. |
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jim | Hey Jas I agreed with you, I had to drive 175 miles to see phillips cineos 55" at hi fi buys and I was bit disappointed not olny the purple but also over all picture is not as good as big sammy 56" not to mention now philip has also new problems that I heard from a bose outlet store and will be even more delay on their shipment. Bill from detroit, Sony grand wega LCD for 3299.99 at circuit city or ?? for 50 inch sounds good but stuck pixel, sony will not conver under Wrt. untill large amount of stuck pixel has covered the screen and extra 4yr Wrt. has the same manufactors Wrt. Plus on sony wega lcd does not have a line doubler or pixel plus feature for normal cable viewing. I called samsung dealer in atlanta and just purchased a brand new 56" HLN567W for Total of 4399.99 free 499.99 stand, and delivery and also samsung HD DVD player, I"m happy they will deliver that on thursday next week in my great room and I'll be watching Matrix DVD on HD guys 1080I |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Having had my new Samsung for just 4 days, I absolutely love it - even though I'm still watching std TV through the temporary set top box. I'm glad I didn't wait for the Cineo LCoS. The picture on the Samsung is so bright and hats off to the built-in Faroudja scalar. If it can make 4:3 std TV from a $79 receiver via S-Video input look this good, I can't wait to see high def via DVI. The Panoramic aspect view is fantastic and DVD's looks great via component. I've managed to relegate the Samsung remote to the drawer completely and run the whole system from my MX-700. I like the slim border around the screen which makes it look like it's all picture (but would have preferred a solid black surround, not dark gray). The warm-up time from cold is merely a few seconds (I heard the Cineos need 30 secs). As for the Sony, the picture is not as sharp and bright IMHO, and everytime I walk into my local Tweeters, my eyes get drawn to the single stuck pixel on their 50" Wega - that would drive me insane at home and I've seen none of the much-discussed rainbow effect on my Samsung. To be fair to the Cineo, I have not seen one, just read about all the issues and I'm sure Philips will succeed in fixing the issues - but if I was still in the market to buy one, I'd have to be pretty convinced they were resolved and I would want to read glowing reviews in the big publications like Home Theatre Magazine and the like before purchasing. Most importantly of all for me, my wife loves the new Samsung! It's a big purchase (especially when you add in the stand, 3-LNB dish, Sony SAT-300HD, 4 Samsung basic receivers, a 5-room satellite install, off-air antenna and a bunch of additional Monster cables) and if had gone wrong, I'd never hear the end of it - especially as I didn't tell her I was doing it! Well I like living dangerously - and it looks like I just got away with it!! |
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| Can anyone tell me the difference between the Samsung HLN507W and the HLN5065W? The Samsung website shows no difference in their spec sheet line-up. Which is newer? Also, has anyone seen the HLN467W? A reviewer on another post likes the Samsung DLP, but complains that detail is lacking in the dark areas of the picture, and believes that the set creates large differences in color balance between various sources and channels. Any thoughts? |
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Joe Hendrix | Lawrence - The salesman at the video store took black electrical tape and covered the silver edges of the Sammy for a couple of clients, and they loved it. I have really been toying with the idea of getting the same 56" screen. |
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Tom in Minneapolis, MN | Lawrence - I've been looking at picking up the Samsung. I'm interested in hearing your feedback on the Anti-Glare Protective Shield on yours. In our great room the TV faces the windows and although we do not have direct sunlight through those windows there is still a lot of glare on our current tube set. I'd like to think that a $4000 tv would reflect alot less light then the current $500 tube. I see that you are using DirectTv. Have you been tracking the progress of the new HDTV Direct Tivo due out by year-end. I have only seen the original press releases from Jan/03 so I don't know if they still plan on making that date or not. |
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Anonymous | najarretd says, "Thank you for contacting Philips USA Webchat. My name is Devroy. How may I assist you today?" You say, "I have purchased the 44PL977S from gooodguys in Sept and have now been told twice of delays in shippment." najarretd says, "I am sorry for the inconvenience this has caused you." najarretd says, "I will be more than happy to assist you with this information . First I would like some information to create a case file . Please may I have your name, zip code, city and telephone number ?" najarretd says, "Thank you Paul." najarretd says, "Paul , the tv should be available by next month." najarretd says, "We are sorry for the inconvenience caused by the delays ." You say, "This is different from what I was told by Goodguys which said 1st week in Dec." najarretd says, "Paul , from what I was told next month is the expected date." You say, "I am very interested in being told why the delay. If there is a product problem I would like to know what it is." najarretd says, "I am sorry but we are not sure of the reason for the delays." You say, "Several messages boards are saying there are product problems." You say, "Are you aware of any?" najarretd says, "No Paul, we are not." You say, "If you say there are no product issues then are there production problem delays?" najarretd says, "Paul , as I said above we are not sure of the reason for the delays." You say, "I have told Goodguys I am patient and would wait for a while especially after purchasing furniture built around this TV. But I can not say that I might not cancel the order if I am not informed in any problem." You say, "I would appreciate being told more specific what the delays are via either chat or e-mail if possible." najarretd says, "I understand what you are saying Paul but we are unable to give information on the delays as we do not have that information." You say, "Surely someone there knows. I guess this all I have to say at this time. Thanks for the input. If the avail is Nov can you tell me whether it is the first part or last part of the month? Thanks again" najarretd says, "No , we do not have the exact date." You say, "Bye" najarretd says, "Thanks for contacting Philips USA. " |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Tom / Joe:- The TV in our great room does not face the windows because our windows are on the wall to the left of the screen. I'm fortunate in that our windows are not direct to the outside but to a covered porch/seating area where we have our BBQ etc. That means that except for early mornings, we do not get hard sunshine coming straight in to this room. That makes it ideal as a home theatre room. Because of this, I have not been bothered by reflections off the screen and it looks like it would not cause a hard glare even if it had direct sunlight but I'll look closer into this and report back. I'll try shining a flashlight onto it at different angles to see what the effect is. I like the idea of a black surround, but somehow I don't think electrical tape would look so cool! Perhaps black formica edging with double-sided tape would work but that's a lot of work as it would have to be very accurately cut (laser edge) and I don't have the correct tools for that. I'll probably have to stick with what I have. On a more practical note, I may look into creating a custom bracket to act as a shelf for my center speaker which is currently stuck to the top 2" wide trim with velcro (sounds precarious, but actually it would take a concerted effort to tear it off). The 50" DLP has this, but for some reason Samsung didn't do the same for the 61" (shame on you Samsung, if you are taking note. Details! Details!). I had the center speaker on the shelf below the TV at first but that's not nearly as good a position as dead center top of the screen. It shouldn't be hard to create a bracket that clips on to the TV discretely to provide the support for the center speaker over the sloping back of the TV. This would be better asthectically as the speaker would not jut out front from the trim (as it does now). On Tivo's, I nearly bought a std 80hr. Tivo last weekend as I had a 10% off coupon and there's a $ 50 rebate, but I just baulk at the idea of paying Tivo $ 12.99/month or $ 299 for their "product lifetime" service fee. I carefully quizzed the salesman about what would happen if the unit irrepairably broke down - is the $ 299 down the pan or can they reactivate another unit? He sounded suitably vaugue on this but did indicate that if I also bought the Best Buy product warranty, they would work with Tivo if such an eventuality happened. (Oh sure..! Puleeze...!) [As a side note, I never buy extended warranties and reckon I have saved thousands over the years so if I do have a mishap, I'll be still ahead of the game]. Anyway, I digress - I quizzed him about the forthcoming HDTV Tivo and he said it was due out this fall (Nov) and that it would cost around $999 with no additional service fee. If that is so, it would be worth it as it will hold oodles of std def material as well as quite a lot of high def stuff. If a basic 80hr Tivo costs $ 299 (after rebate) plus another $ 299 to activate for life, then you are already nearly 2/3rd of the way to the cost of the HDTV one. Looks like a no brainer to me. I work pretty long hours so having spent all this money to get high def, I want to be able to see anything I want when I want it (copyright protected stuff aside, remember). So for me it sounds like a deal (I remember paying $ 450 for a high end ProScan VCR 10 years ago). Of course I was talking to Best Buy - anyone got a more authoritative source?! |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | An interesting note - when I came home today, my wife and oldest daughter were watching a movie on DirecTV called Orange County on the Samsung DLP. The quality was outstanding and at first I thought they had rented a DVD! And this is still on the "cheap" std definition box. Later they watched Ghosts and it was distinctly greenish (I didn't bother adjusting the color as this was not the norm and I have it just right for most programs). The quality of feed definately varies but such is life. As more and more HDTV turns on this will be less and less of an issue. If anyone out there already has the Sony SAT-HD300, can they confirm if it has on-screen Caller-ID? I don't see it on the specs. |
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| I've been thinking about buying a sammy dlp for a short while now, kinda going back and forth between dlp, lcos & lcd because i really like the svga connect on the lcd and lcos, plasma tv's cost too much!, so my loving wife went out supposedly helping (dismayed that I'm spending over 3,000 on a tv) & brought a SVA-USA HD Plasma 42" ??? for $2,500 from Costco. Has anyone ever heard of (SVA-USA) these people before, it has an ok picture but i don't believe it's true HD although it says it is, I'm thinking of returning it & putting the money towards a new dlp or lcos display, although I like the idea of having a plasma panel I don't want to waste my money on something that only offers a 1 year factory + 1 year extended warranty max with me paying for the second year. Who the hell offers a 2 year maximum warranty anyway! Does anyone have any advice to offer? |
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Anonymous | SVA (Group) USA, Inc. is a subsidiary of SVA (Group) Co., LTD, one of China's largest advanced technologies and IT companies. Based in Los Angeles, CA, SVA USA operates as the sole sales and marketing division for SVA brand consumer electronics and flat panel displays in North America. SVA (Group) USA offers a wide variety of high end technology products from DVD Players, Pure Flat Televisions, HD Ready Plasma Televisions, and LCD-TFT monitors. It is a chinese product/company. Who knows what the quality of their service will be? I would be careful - they could pull out of the market tomorrow. |
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Anonymous | Like most I have been shopping for a long time. I had decided on the Sony 60" XBR set until I went to Fry's and saw the Sony sitting right next to the Sammy 50" DLP. I tried to adjust the Sony to look as good as the Sammy but it just wasn't as bright and crisp a color. I don't want a 50" though and I could not find a 61" DLP on display anywhere. Circuit City convinced me to buy the 61" Sammy. I got it and was disappointed with the brightness; it was not nearly as good as the 50". Additionally, the RGB computer input did not work at all. They gave me 30 days to return it ilf I wasn't happy and in that time I bought and received the 55" Phillips Cineos. I was able to compare them side by side in my own home. The Cineos was significantly brighter and closer to a plasma tv. I have a 42" plasma for my bedroom which of course has a great picture with a 3000:1 contrast ratio. I brought it down to compare the LCoS and DLP to it. The LYCoS was much closer to the plasma than the Sammy. I didn't experience any of the problems with the Phillips that I have read about with purple screens and rainbows, etc.; I did notice a red streak in one area of the screen that looks like someone took a 4" paint brush and painted a large comma on the screen. That is only noticeable when there is no signal and you have the blue screen; it is not a bright red and would probably not bother most people; I have ordered a new LYCoS to replace it anyway. I have had the LYCoS for 3 weeks and it is great except for watching VHS tapes. The VCR looks terrible and I think it is because of the Pixel Plus which I have not figured out how to turn off. The Sammy looked much better with the VCR. I think the LYCoS is comparable to the 50" Sammy but much better than the 61" Sammy. As far as the DVI input, I bought the Sammy DVD player with the DVI output that is hyped in the material that comes with the 61" Sammy, I got a 2 Meter Monster DVI cable for $100 at Best Buy and I hooked up the new DVD player to each set. I did not like the picture using DVI with either set. With the DVI input, you could not adjust any color settings and you could not adjust the picture size to fill the screen. The picture was good but I liked the component output picture better in progressive scan. The colors were more vibrant in progressive scan. As in most things, it is probably a matter of personal choice and some of you may like the DVI picture better but I doubt that you would like the Sammy 61" better unless you do not like the plasma picture quality as much as projection tv picture. I will now have an opportunity to try a newer Philips Cineos and see if it is better or worse than the one I have now. I also have Comcast digital cable with about 6 HD channels. HD is definately better but non-HD is good too. I will probably switch to satellite because among other things, it will be cheaper. arnie |
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Bride-to be-no longer | Hey everyone. There is so much great new info in this thread! I had to check back and let you know I waited for the Grand Wega III(KF60WE610) to come out(a couple of people here suggested that-thank you!). It is the right TV for us at the right price. I am going to purchase it this evening. This thread is really long -but to sum up- I ended up going with the Sony LCD due to the fact that I see rainbows on both the LCOS and DLP. If I didn't see rainbows and the Phillips Cineos model didn't have that purple haze problem-I would have purchased the LCOS technology Cineos. I thought it looked more "real" than the DLP. I would be happy to post a review of our GWIII once it get delivered to us sometime the end of October(I hope!). Good luck! -Bride |
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BLev | This thread has been very helpful to me, so for what it's I just got off the phone with Philips who told me they were definitely going to be shipping the Cineos TVs by the end of this month. To address a previous poster's question, the discrepancy between when the retailer said they'd be available and when Philips said they'd be available, I think is because Philips is telling you (as they told me) when they will be shipped from their central manufacturing facility. I imagine they will have to travel to various other regional staging centers and then finally on to the retailers. This probably accounts for the time lag between end of October and early December. BTW, has ANYONE heard anything about the 2nd Gen Toshiba LCOS (65HLX83 or 57HL83)? I am deciding between the Sammy DLP, the Cineos and the Toshiba, but I haven't seen either of the last two. I have read plenty about the Cineos, but can't seem to find anything, even a release date, for the new version of the Toshiba. Anyone? |
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david | Blev, hey get the sammy HLN567w 56" way better than philip cineos 55" I been debating for 3 months between the two and i got sammy not bad |
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| Blev, I saw an ad in Sound & Vision mag on the Toshiba 57HL83. The vendor was www.onecall.com. Maybe they can shed some light when the new model will bw available. |
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Anonymous | David- I too am now leaning on purchasing the HLN567w 56" vs. Cineos 55" but I am concerned with the picture related to fast movements, mainly sports. I have heard, but haven't seen, that their is a trail or a blur when their is any fast movement like a football game. Have you had a chance to see any sports games on the samsung? thanks |
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Culpeppa | Well gang, I got my Samsung HNL507W a week ago. I was contemplating the Philips LCOS, but never got to see one, and couldn't wait any longer. However, all of the advice here was helpful. I'm sure they both display a great HD signal, but I was interested in how well they display an analog channel, the DNIE vs Pixel Plus issue. I can report the HNL507 does display a good analog signal. Bright, good color, and I agree, the panorama mode is the most pleasing to watch. DVD component input is as good as you expect it to be. In short, I've had no problems whatsoever so far. I can't wait for November when Charter cable says they'll offer HD here in Atlanta. The 50 inch is a better choice for my short viewing distance, 10-12 ft, than the larger 56" Sammy, or the 55" Philips anyway. Plus, I like Samsungs styling, with the speakers on the bottom and a thin bezel around the DLP screen. For me, that's better than the Phlips LCOS which has speakers on the side, making the unit even wider. I wish I could label the inputs, and descrete codes would be nice, but thats about the only downside so far. Does anyone know if its possible to get those via firmware updates in the future from Samsung? I assume that the RS-232C jack is there for that? |
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Anonymous | You will sometimes see a blur (but not always) with the DLP monitors when watching from a STD source and something really moves fast on the screen. I have never seen it on any HD broadcast games or from watching a dvd movie. This seems to me to be a minor glitch with an analog source? Anyway I'm very happy overall with my 43" Samsung, I compared it to lcd tv's before i made my purchase and chose the samsung because of the pixel problem with the lcd's, I don't notice any type of rainbow effect, my wife does but it's not noticeable to her all the time. Also I've just checked out the Philips LCoS it looks amazing I didn't see a purple haze or anything but reading I see there's possible production problems that would be cause for concern. I want something bigger for my basement (60+) and was thinking about going LCD or I may wait to see what Toshiba LCoS has in store... |
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BLev | David, thanks for the reply. I may very well end up with the Sammy if I have to wait much longer to see the other 2. But, I thought the Sammy came in either 50" or 61", not 55". I think for my room 50" is a little small. The 61" Sammy is a bit pricey for me which is one of the reasons I've been excited about the Cineos (because it's 55" and cheaper than the Sammy 61). But, if there really is a Sammy 56", that may do the trick. Bill, thanks to you as well. I've seen the add on Onecall and a few other sites, but when I called them no one seemed to have any information. And no retailer I've found seems to know anything which is really the problem because I need to see the TV, not just talk to someone at an etailer. If anyone has any more info on the Toshiba, please post. I'll do the same. |
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Anonymous | fyi.... www.dlp.com |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Culpeppa: There are discrete codes out there for the Sammy 50" (also works for the 61" which I have), but these are for the MX-700 remote only. Not sure if they are available for others. Try rummaging around in www.remotecentral.com. This will be your best bet. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | FIRST IMPRESSIONS - 61" Samsung DLP with SONY SAT-HD300 I know this is a LCoS v DLP thread, but every HDTV monitor needs a set-top box so here's a little diversion from the much argued DLP/LCoS discussion. The quality of the receiver used can make a huge difference. Followers of this thread know I've been using a basic Samsung SIRS-300W $ 79 box for the first week to drive my 61" Sammy. Last night I finally got to hook up my new $ 699 Sony SAT-HD300. What a difference! First impressions: The scalar in the Sony is outstanding. With the Samsung box, some 4:3 material looked pretty darn good when upconverted to the DLP's 720p native resolution, but a lot of it was a bit rough and grainy looking with a tendancy towards greenish or pink colors. I put this down to the wide range of station quality and of course I was driving the Sammy through composite which is only one step better than basic video-in or UHF. I'm feeding the big Sammy via a Monster Cable DVI interconnect now, so it's digital all the way. High Definition feed from stations such as ESPN HD and Discovery HD Theatre look absolutely stunning. Of particular interest to me was how it handled 4:3 material because we still watch a lot of normal TV like everyone else. Well the Sony does a great job of upconverting and resizing the image for the big screen. It's substantially better than the Samsung SIRS-300W. Colors are displayed correctly and look natural. Banners and station logos are clean and solid. All 4:3 material looks softer on the screen compared to HD (of course), but it's not grainy and dirty. In fact, as I write this (at 5:30am!), I just flipped through all my 50 Favorites and could not find one "bad" channel. This is very important as it's no use being able to watch cool DVD's and HDTV feed if my wife can't watch her Court TV or other favorite stuff as well because they look awful! Also a "plus" was the Sony's fast response to channel changes - I was able to remove the macro delays between each number in my MX-700 remote's Favorites (without a pause between 2 - 0 - 0, the Samsung SIRS-300W missed numbers and might give me 20 or just 2). On the downside, The Samsung receiver's implementation of the DirecTV's program guide was hands down better as we could choose between 4 colors themes and 4 levels of transparency from clear thru' solid. Sony gives you one solid color theme - take it or leave it (Come on Sony - this is a $699 box - how difficult could that be?). The Sony also does not have on-screen Caller-ID which we loved in the cheap Samsung box. I also wish they offered the Sony in black as well. A lot of us have black AV components and it's a bummer to have a dark silver facia in the middle of the stack. The remote is OK but I much preferred the Sammy's one - Sony have never been strong on remotes in my opinion. There's no backlighting either, but as I use the MX-700 anyway, it's not an issue for me. Unfortunately, the vertical interference bars I mentioned previously in this thread are still there (but not so bad now I'm using the Sony SAT-HD300) so Tweeter's installer is going to check this out on Friday. Either there's a bad LNB on the dish or (horror) the Samsung DLP has a problem. I don't notice them on HDTV but you can discern the interference on all other channels to a slight degree - particularly on solid color backgrounds. It only affects TV not DVD so I doubt it is the Sammy, but if it is, I'll be very glad I didn't buy it over the web! |
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The Canadian | Hi everyone: has anyone checked the Panasonic LCD sets, either the PT-45LC12 or PT-50LC13? I had the opportunity to see them at our Future Shop store here in Ottawa (Canada) with the Sony LCD and Samsung DLP sets also on display. All four sets were showing DVD material. I had been pretty well sold on the Samsung DLP, but I am quite impressed with the Panasonic's picture. Mind you I have not seen cable-tv sourced material on it. Always an important consideration. Any views? |
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Bill - Detroit | Lawrence - you are the man!! You must be in some kind of TV engineering field - you seem to know everything there is to know about TV's and HDTV!! Today in the New York Times I saw a full page add for a new HDTV satellite service called "Voom". They claim to beam 29 channels of High Def. content. In Feb. 2004 the number of channels goes to 39. I have not visted the website yet (www.voom.com) but the add said the cost was $749 forthe dish and set-top box. No mention of monthly fee. Not sure if the 39 channels comes with other non high-def channels (similar to cable of direct TV). Anyway, this was the first I heard of this - I wonder if this is an off-shoot of direct TV or Dish Network. The only company I was awarethat was getting into satellite was Time Warner - not sure if they are behind this. Anyway - take care. I still waiting for X-mas to see if any new models are coming along. I am narrowing choices down to the Sammy DLP, Sony 61-inch Grand Wega LCD, or the new Cineos (assuming the problems are corrected). Chyeers - Bill - Detroit |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Bill - no I don't have a TV engineering background at all! (Actually I am a VP of Network Services for an IT firm, so I do have a technical background which made is easier to hone up on this stuff). I did spend about a year researching the whole HDTV market. I subscribed to AV Guide, Home Theatre Magazine, Sound & Vision etc. I also read tons of product reviews and researched a lot on the web (and in forums like this one). Of all the research I did, I found going into stores like Best Buy and Circuit City to be the most useless and was quite dismayed by the mis-information and lack of knowledge from their sales people. Tweeter was the exception - the guys in the Huntsville store here know their stuff, but by the time I had started talking to them, I knew mine too, so I was able to qualify what they were saying was correct. I read about Voom too. I had previously researched DirecTV vs. Dish Network and although Dish Network was cheaper, the old adage of you get what you pay for kicked in. Voom will have a tough push but presumably they are well funded to be entering the HDTV space. From a consumer viewpoint, my choice was not just based on the available channels but on choice of set top boxes and market maturity (it's takes time to shake out the bugs and also if I'm going to spend a grand in set top boxes for my 5 rooms (inc the HD one) plus a Tivo to boot, the satellite company darn well better stay in business). It's clear there is a wide list of DirecTV receivers including high-end ones as well as the cheaper end of the market (for the kids bedrooms, the Samsung SIRS-300W's at $79 are absolutely fantastic). If Voom only deliver 29 High Def channels, what does one about traditional content (CNN, CourtTV, Nick-at-Nite etc. etc.)? I suppose you can retain your cable provider. I wonder if the Voom box has DVI out? The big question is whether Sony and the rest will tool up to support Voom versions of their tuners. I'll visit their web site for a look. As a side note, I did get my attic antenna hooked up yesterday so now I have the local affiliates (ABC, NBC, FOX, CBS) in HD too (and free!). I bought a $20 RCA +27dB UHF amplifier from a local store and boosted the antenna feed before it goes to the Terk 5x8 splitter. I them used a Diplexer (which splits the combined feed back out to two again (Sat + Ant) at the set top box. The Sony had no difficulty picking up all the local channels plus PBS and a couple of others (one in HD!) that I'd never seen before! I'll pick up another 4 Diplexers ($8 ea.) from the store for the other rooms, then I'll be able to drop the Local Channels feed from DirecTV and save $5/month. It's not much but over the years it adds up to a few hundred bucks, plus I now have High Def which DirecTV will never do for local feeds. I had one of my neighbors come round to view the new "toys" yesterday evening and he was knocked out by the quality of HDTV on the DLP. He has not studied the HDTV market, so he was viewing it from an uninformed consumer perspective, not a technical one. He was particularly impressed with the bright light output of the DLP and said it knocked other big screens he had seen out of the water. He also loved the wide viewing angle and said the quality of the picture was so good it gave it a 3D effect and a feeling of depth. This is also exactly what my wife had said when she saw HD feed on Friday for the first time. Good luck with your quest for the "right choice" Bill and I look forward to hearing of your experiences! BTW, are you British? You said "Cheers" which is distinctly UK-speak! I'm from Scotland. Cheers - Lawrence/Madison, AL |
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HorrorScope | Looking at Voom, imo it has a ways to go to become economically viable for me... They advertise 28, but 10 are HD Pay Per View Channels. Now were down to 18. Half of those are real demo style stations, nature walks and museum tours, etc... On top of that you need a $700 box. What about the bedrooms? I couldn't get any info on that. No way I'm doing $700x3. I'm looking at dissing Dish and going back to Cable. They supply the boxes and it's a few dollars per month (I do want to see if I can do component in the worst case). I get the normal compliment of HD channels everyone else gets plus the Networks on it, so no antenna, which the Satellites don't have the network option. Quality? Well that's the next step. The Voom's biggest plus, is it's all-new and they don't have 500 stations so hopefully bandwidth isn't an issue yet. I've heard D-TV/Dish have bandwidth problems as well, it was brought up cable compresses more because of bandwidth, the satellite companies have been fighting that to from what I hear. |
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heartdoc | I wonder if anyone else has played with their comcast box to change the HD outputs. With my 55pl977S I noted some digital artifacts creeping in on HD as well as SD signals. I changed the output on HD from 1080i to 720P and the 4:3 default was set at 480i to 480p and the fine digital snow noise was gone! (BTW to get to the Comcast/motorola service menu--turn on the set by holding the menu button down until the menu comes up and quickly release.) I heard about VOOM last week--available at Sears--isn't this a repackaged dishnetwork? Also--HiFi buys has told me they are replacing all the original LCOS sets with the new sets. I am going to wait and see if they correct the bowtie issue. I saw the Sammy 56" on the floor. I don't like its oversaturated colors out of the box, but has anyone tried to adjust them. This weekend I also saw a Sony VPL 10 projector on a 92" screen --This is definately the way to go if you got the wall space and can darken the room at least moderately. |
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| Guys, unfortunately I have decided to abandon my quest to get the Philips LCOS. The main reason was due to bad info I had received from a very reputable source. So after much research I have decided to go with the new Sony Grand WEGA 50" TV KF-50WE610 (not the old TV - KF-50XBR800). The brand new models actually have gone a step further in improving in all major categories. The TV looks flat out GREAT! I have it on order, it will arrive this Thursday. But I wanted to get your thoughts on this TV. Personally, with these new models I can't see any problems that may have come up in the first gen. Lawrence, in your research, did you review the Sony? What do you think about the new models? Keep in mind, that I have up to 30 days to return this TV if I'm not satisfied. I figured what I have to lose. Let me know. Thanks! |
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steve from CA | Leonard J. Burch: sony KF-50we610 has good picture in HD but in analog samsung DLP is much better. Also sony LCD wrnt. will not cover dead pixel until large amount has been stuck. Even if you buy a extended wrnt. I too had waited on Philips LCOS but not any more, I had a choice of sony LCD and samsung DLP and I got a DLP. I'm very happy with the set. And also the new SONY Grand Wega 50" KF-we610 do not have any line doubler or pixel plus, on the old xbr has it, samsung has the DNIE for shraper picture. |
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Jas | I was planning to get a Samsung HLN507W DLP set and am a little worried after reading this article from http://www.projectorcentral.com/lcd_dlp.htm "but the rapid sequencing of color is thought to be the culprit in reported cases of eye strain and headaches". Any DLP owners experienced these side affects? |
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david | www.projectorcentral.com only talks about projectors not projected screen tvs, but anyway I have not experienced any side affects on my new samsung DLP HLN567W or my borthers HLN507W they both has a beatiful picture except mine has 56" over my brother. And that web add. they did not mention about LCD having a dead pixel problems like the new SONY grand wega. |
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| Steve, the Sony already has a much better resolution than any of the TV's out there (Three Wide XGA LCD Panels: 3.28 Million Dots Resolution (1386 x 788 x 3), so really there is no real need to have a line doubler. From looking at both Samsung DLP and Sony side by side, the DLP is just too dark for me when it has to render dark areas. The Sony just looks better than the DLP to me. But as you mentioned, the only concern I have is with the pixels. If I receive the TV Thursday and I don't see any problems, what is the outlook on the potential for dead pixels in the future? I'm not even sure if I've ever seen one. How would I know if there is a dead pixel? What should I look for? |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Jas - we have seen absolutely no rainbow effect on our 61" DLP. The picture is stunning. I even watched an old Bewitched rerun in black and white on the TV Land channel the other day. The Sony SAT-HD300 sent it to the Sammy in Widescreen mode perfectly and it was crisp and sharp and in perfect grayscale with no color to be seen (surely the acid test!).I was amazed. I did consider the Sony LCD's but the one at Tweeter already had a stuck pixel (stuck blue) so that was enough for me. The DLP was hands down brighter too. |
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| Screen glare?? Love this forum! I too am a frustrated HD buyer, and would have owned a 61" Samsung months ago, had they been available. As one waits, the technology and models change. Soon, units will come with built-in HD tuners. The new RCA dlp units are much cheaper than Sammys, and have the hd tuner already. My question is: how bad is the RCA screen glare - that is, reflected room light? The Sammys are very good in this respect, with very low-glare screens. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | John - I will agree that the Sammy DLP has a very low-glare screen. I don't have direct sunlight hitting it in the room it is in but plenty of indirect sunlight and in the evening our table lamps have no effect either. Even having the ceiling lights on does not affect it. The bright light output also helps in this regard too. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Hi Leonard - as I said in a recent post, I did consider the Sony Wega LCD's. In fact my entire a/v stack is Sony - even the HDTV tuner, so I would have liked to keep with the same brand (Sony makes darn good equipment), but those pesky stuck pixels just bugged me. I'm a bit of a perfectionist so just one bad pixel would drive me nuts! The reviews on the Sammy in Home Theatre Magazine and others were excellent and I felt very comfortable investing in it - especially as this is the second generation DLP series from Samsung (always better - bugs sorted out and "lessons learned" and that sort of thing) plus it has the better DLP chip. Blacks are not as good as a CRT but not bad either. I have yet to spend more time with my Video Essentials DVD so I expect to tweak even better near-black performance out of it soon. Like many in this forum, I was being driven insane waiting for the "next best thing". I waited for the Philips LCoS and gave up after the rumors. I know that Sony (and I am sure Samsung too) have new models for 2004, but I just could not wait any longer. In a couple of years, my Sammy will probably end up in our big recreation room upstairs and I'll have the latest LCoS or DLP toy downstairs - but that's another day! |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Horrorscope - you mention that satellite companies are compressing data to fight the bandwidth issue too. Now that I have HD from both DirecTV and local off-air channels (the latter are not compressed at all), I've had a chance to compare them. I can't say I see any difference. The most stunning HD channel on DirecTV has got to be Discovery HD Theatre. The content on this channel is extremely high quality. I have not had an opportunity to compare cable feed side-by-side with satellite, however, from what I have heard, the cable companies have been using a more aggressive form of compression that causes loss of some detail. It may or may not be noticeable to most viewers and much probably depends on the quality of equipment you have. As most cable companies push out cheap boxes with only composite output, it probably makes no difference at all at that level. At the higher end (DVI and high-end set top boxes and monitors), it probably does make a difference. Of more concern is that as bandwidth pressure increases, what's to stop them turning up the notch a bit more? They have a fixed media to play with whereas DirecTV have numerous channels not in use at all times and appear to have plenty of capacity still. With 80 million customers, they also have the economy of scale to afford to launch more capacity in the future as more and more HD gets turned on. BTW, we've all been discussing VOOM as a new HD supplier. That's got to be good for us DirecTV viewers as it will push them to get more HD feed going to remain competitive! |
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Jas | After reading a lot about DLP and LCD technologies, we finally decided to get the DLP after checking out many stores. I will be getting it tomorrow and will report on the setup. I already have Dish Network and gotta call those folks to check on their HD boxes. For anyone in the market looking at DLPs, Circuit City (NC) gave us a good price of $2999 for the HLN507W model. |
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NB | Jas how did you get a $2999 price for the 507W? I paid $3600 about three weeks ago at Circuit City in Melbourne Florida, and would like like to get your lower price -- Circuit City will match if I have the information. |
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Jas | NB - When I said that another Circuit city in New York (CC #3681 - thanks to videoking from avsforum) had a lower price, they said that is a different market segment and they cannot match the price. But they were quick to mark it down by 23% when I said my friend in NY will pay for it and I will pick it up at my local store (NC). I think there is a price war going in NY between PC Richards and CC and thats the reason NY CC has advertised this model at $2999 for week ending 10/25. |
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Joe Hendrix | I'm very interested in picking up the Samsung 56" DLP. I was wondering if anyone else has this, and what they think? Better, worse, or same as the 50" 507W? Also, I know the total height of the 56" is 36", but what is the actual screen height (not counting the height of the speakers and what not below the screen)? |
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jk | Joe, I am a very happy owner of a new Samsung 56"dlp and highly recommend it. The 61" seems too big. 56" is just right. The picture on HD channels is unbelievable! Also nice to know there is no risk of screen burn-in on the regular channels. The set runs a little warmer than I'd expected-- a lot of heat seems to pour out of the vents in the rear near the color wheel. We are having a custom entertainment center built around it, as it is such a big set without its own base, so we couldn't find any pre-fab entertainment centers that would work (and the Samsung base is not baby-friendly). Can anyone recommend a silent, easy-to-install/use, fan to have installed in the rear of the entertainment center? |
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Anonymous | Joe, Radio Shack cooling fan.....very quiet |
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| It is amazing how the interest has dropped for the Philips LCOS with lack of shippments. I also wanted to see this unit and Philips said that a Bose near me ( about 60 miles) had one on display. Before I make the journey, I called and was told that they will not have any until the new year. I am guessing because of this forum, that the problem is new production and replacing the problem sets. Those that do have them without the "purple", are you still satisfied with the technology and results? |
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Ken in Heritage Plantation | Lawrence in Madison-- I too live in Madison and have been considering the Samsung 61" DLP, so was glad to hear your positive remarks. I like the 57" Sammy's I've seen, but have not actually seen the 61, so am hesitant to buy. Did you see the 61 Sammy in some other city than Hntsvl? I've been thinking about also getting the new Samsung DVD with the up-conversion to 720p. Any experiences with this unit? And, you're so right that the Best Buy folks don't have a clue. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Hello Ken - no I did not see it before buying it, but I did read good reviews on it in Home Theatre Magazine (April '03) and The Perfect Vision (July/August 03). I also liked the 56" DLP in Tweeters. E-mail me at ltd@knology.net so we can swap phone numbers/addresses - you can come round and see mine this week. I'm not far from you! I have not seen the Samsung DVD. I have a Sony DVP-NS755V which got very good reviews and was not expensive. The results so far have been very good. The Samsung has a Faroudja scalar which is very good. I have been experimenting with setting my Sony SAT-HD300 at both 480i and 720p output and it's hard to tell whose scalar is best, but my bet is on the Samsung's. |
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Jas | Would like to know if anyone is using DVI input into Sammy DLP's and could tell the difference between DVI and component connections. I have Dish Network and I may have to wait for a couple of months if I need a receiver with DVI port. |
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david | Leonard Burch: are you enjoying your new sony kf50we610 let us know. I just got mine this sunday and had a one dead pixel so I called circuit city and had to exchange with another one. The samsung DVD player is great the dvi through sony, awsome picture. |
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| I just spoke to tweeter (D.C) regarding Philips LCOS, they now say that they wont get it until January. Has anyone heard about the second generation Toshiba three chip/panel LCOS. I read that they will be available in 57 and 65 inches. |
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heartdoc | Jack: As one of the few who have a Phillips LCOS without the purple issue, I have been overall pleased with it. The new sammy 56" sets are close but seem too dark and colors oversaturated. The LCOS set can be set to a cool setting which gives nice whites and richer blacks/colors, the normal setting is just that, very natural colors and true grey scales, good details in dark scenes, shadows. I hooked up Denon DVD 2200 and 5th Element DVD(Superbit) looks like HDTV. I do notice I have to play with the aspect mode a lot, but this is useful as to avoid distortions with a variety of inputs. SDTV from cable comcast is still very watchable at short distances. |
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Blev | Raj, I called Toshiba last week for an update on their 2nd gen LCOS (57HL83 and 65HLX83) and the person I spoke with could not possibly know any less information. She said they were experiencing delays from their chip supplier. From my own research, I already knew that (the supplier is Hitachi btw, which she didn't even know). She could not tell me anything about the expected production date or even if they made some of these TVs and then ran out of the chip or if they have yet to even make 1 of them. I have been waiting and waiting for the Philips and Toshiba to finally compare to the Sammy DLP so I can finally get a TV and move on with my life. But, neither of them seem to want to cooperate. You'd think I'd just get the Sammy already, but I just can't do it until I see the others as the thought of having been able to wait a few more months for something that turns out to be better is too much for me. Btw, I'm in the DC area as well. I just found out that The Big Screen Store on Wisconsin Avenue in Rockville is planning on having the 83" Mitsubishi Alpha (LCOS) on display in their Rockville store in about 2 weeks. I've heard this TV (the biggest rear proj. in the world) will retail near $20K, so it's way out of my range, but I'm sure it will be worth checking out just to see it. Finally, can someone help me out with an easy question? I was under the impression that DLP and LCOS TVs are not fixed pixel displays, and only LCDs are. I was in Tweeter over the weekend talking to a salesman there about the new Sony LCDs (which looked very good btw) and I mentioned I wasn't really considering them because the idea of just one green dot in the middle of the TV would drive me insane (I saw a dead pixel in a display model once). He replied that the same thing can happen with DLP or LCOS, which goes against everything I've always thought. I had my suspicions about whether this salesman was just a bullsh*tter or whether he actually knew his stuff. When I heard him say that, I left thinking my suspicions were correct. But, I'm not really sure that I'm right on this one, so I thought I'd seek the answer from this board which seems to have a breadth of collective knowledge. |
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| Thanks heartdoc. Sounds like you did your research. Has anyone seen or had a chance to evaluate the Panasonic th42px20u against the Sammy or the Philips. It is a plasma. I saw it and thought the picture and skin tones were right on but again Best Buy had it for sale at $6200. Why do I have the feeling that the higher priced sets are set up with greater care? I am not planning on purchasing until after January. Anyone have any thoughts of others I should evaluate? Are Plasma's hard to set up by one's self? Heartdoc---did you compare any of the other plasmas other than the Sammy to the Philips? How does the LCOS compare to a good plasma? With this kind of money, I don't want to make a mistake. |
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| Blev I realze how much time you have spent going over this, as I have done the same agonizing over this decision. I just want to compare the two technologies before I decide. I belive HEARTDOC is right about LCOS and I think I will wait...... P.S thanks for the Mitsubishi tip I will check it out. |
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Boston | I have been following this thread lately and am one of the ones who has so far held out for the Cineo. I have had three chat sessions with Philips' customer service. Three email requests for information from them have to my knowledge not been ressponded to. Their telephone customer service department can not provide any satisfactory answers. Here is the latest chat (with personal info redacted) which occurred last night (Oct. 28). For the moment, I am still holding out to at least see a fixed LCOS set. The chat follows:: najarretd says, "Thank you for contacting Philips USA Webchat. My name is Devroy. How may I assist you today?" You say, "Can you please provide me with the latest update on the 55" Cineos (fixing of the "purple haze" problem and anticipated shipment dates to those who have paid for and not yet received their tv's). I bought this tv in August and have now had my delivery extended 4 times. Tweeter now has no idea when the tv's will arrive." najarretd says, "I am sorry for the inconvenience this has caused you." najarretd says, "I will be more than happy to assist you with this issue and I would like some information to create a case file . Please may I have your name, zip code, city and telephone number ?" You say, "********" najarretd says, "Thank you *****." najarretd says, "***** , the tvs should be available by the end of November." You say, "Does "available" mean in the retail stores so that I can obtain it by then or does it mean shipments by Philips to the retail stores will begin by the end of November. As you can imagine, I only care about when I can expect to receive it," najarretd says, "Yes , available in stores." You say, "When I had a prior chat with Philips I was told that I would absolutely receive the tv by October 31 and that if I did not, I should refer to case no. ********* and that my case "would be transferred to the relevant department for review." I'm not sure what was meant by that, but I believe Philips should consider some sort of credit for those who have patiently waited so long for the tv. I know numerous people who have given up and purchased other brands. Is Philips considering some sort of credit?" najarretd says, "I am sorry for the inconvenience this has caused you and I am not sure of that." You say, "Do you have any idea what was meant by the comment that my case would be transferred to another department for review? What other department is there? Your telephone customer service is frankly worthless and could only refer me to the sales and marketing department, which could also provide no help. The problem is that I have now received direct promises from Philips and keep being asked to be patient. What happens when November comes and goes and the tv's still haven't arrived?" najarretd says, "***** , I am not sure what the other person meant as there is no need to transfer to another department." You say, "I have no idea either other than it was just some way to appease me so that I would not give up on the tv. Have all of the problems with the initial Cineo tv's now been fixed? What exactly was causing the problems and how was it fixed?" najarretd says, "*****, we do not have any information on the problems of the tv or what caused them." You say, "Is there some department that has that info?" najarretd says, "I am sorry but no." You say, "Then how did Philips fix the problem" najarretd says, "*****, we do not have that information." You say, "By "we" do you mean the customer service department? Certainly there is some technical department that identified and fixed the problem" najarretd says, "Yes , and we do not have information what the problem was or how it was fixed." You say, "Has Tweeter been told of the new delivery dates" najarretd says, "I am not sure of that." You say, "Is there any priority in how the new ones will be distributed. In other words, are all the people who received defective sets having theirs replaced first before people in my position get the ones that have been on order" najarretd says, "***** , I am sorry but we are not familiar with the distribution process." You say, "Is there some department I can contact that is" najarretd says, "No *****." You say, "What department informed you that the tv's will be in stores by the end of November" najarretd says, "It was a memo not from a specific department." You say, "So -- who takes responsibility when it is December and I still do not have the tv" najarretd says, "I am not sure of that." |
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BLev | Raj, no problem re: the Mits. Alpha. I'll probably keep waiting for the Cineos too, particularly since holiday time (with hopefully good deals) is now approaching. Boston, thanks for that post. It's pretty similar to various conversations (via live chat and on the phone) I've had with Phillips and Toshiba. Reading your conversation angers me just as much as when I had them myself. I feel like I can't let them off the phone because some question I ask has to trigger some semblance of real information. Yet, nothing. I've come to the conclusion that the technical side of the house (including whoever is responsible for parts, like the Hitachi chip for the Toshiba) simply isn't sharing much info with the sales/marketing side of the house and there isn't enough management visibility/accountability on this for anyone to step in and make sure their consumers are dealt with in a fair, honest and forthright manner. I think these companies are simply too big to worry about what is probably, although it doesn't feel like it to us, a relatively small section of the overall consumer market that buys their products. I do think, however, that as soon as the impact from people giving up on the Cineos hits their market cap, more information will suddenly come to light. The problem is that I don't think it ever will. In a way, I feel sorry for these customer service people who deal with the anger and frustration of their potential customers because I'm sure they have a limited database of information on which to draw upon in helping out a caller; and that database is just not stocked with the right information. Again, if anyone can help out with my question on fixed pixels in my previous post, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. |
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David A. | I've just about decided on the Samsung 46HLN, except that I can't find any stores in Boston willing to display one. They all like to display the bigger models, and at this price I'd sorta like to see before I buy. "Identical except smaller" is what Tweeter said, but that is still not quite good enough for me. Anyhow, for whoever has the 46" DLP, I have one question: when installed in our room the TV is going to be hidden by about 1" on one side behind a dresser. Is that going to cut off the picture? I know the bezel on the 46" is teensy tiny, but just how small IS it? |
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Anonymous | David, I have a 46HLN. The bezel is about 0.6 inch. Ralph |
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Anonymous | going to CC pick up kf42we610 for $2499. Cant justify the $3499 for the Sam hln437w. |
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Bill | Anyone familiar with agoraquest.com - the unofficial Sony website that arranges group buys on sony items (including TV's?. The savings do not seem that large over retail prices. |
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Steve A. | David A: Tweeter on Boylston St. had the HLN467W on display in their upstairs/back room. Have your tried there? I had the 437W but returned it. The color wheel made an awful noise. I have the Sony WE610 now. Good luck with your purchase. |
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Anonymous | Blev: yes, dlp and lcos are, like lcd, "fixed pixel" chips, and one can certainly experience dead pixels with these technologies. |
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David A. | Thanks; Tweeter Boyleston does still have the 46" model on display. Funny; their Harvard Square store claimed nobody did. I'll have to see if I can scoot over there. |
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David A. | Dead pixels on a DLP would mean what -- a stuck mirror? But it isn't one mirror per pixel, is it? |
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BLev | Anonymous, thanks for that info. I am definitely confused then. I've never heard anyone talk about dead pixels on anything but an LCD. In fact the reason I've heard many say they like the DLP over the LCD is because of that issue. What exactly does fixed pixel mean anyway? More important, what TV type won't run the risk of a dead pixel staring you in the face? I think I know the answer...CRT. Somehow, it all seems to come back to CRT. Every retail store sales person I speak to still says for large size TVs you can't get a better all around picture than a CRT based RPTV like the Mitsubishi Diamond. For some reason, I find myself really trying not to believe that. Partly because of the size issue, but I think also because I'm still not convinced the picture really is better. Maybe I'm just being fooled by brightness. I don't know. Any thoughts? Finally, if the risk is the same (for dead pixels) with DLP, LCOS and LCD, has anyone on this board actually compared the new LCD TVs available (I did not like the last Sony XBR I saw, but heard their new line is much better) when shopping for the DLP and LCOS? I've intentionally ignored them because of my misunderstanding. I guess I have new options to review if they all can fall prey to the same evil. Thanks to anyone who can enlighten me some more. |
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Paul H. | Purchased the Sony KF-50WE610 at P.C. Richard for $2,699. ($2,999-10% President's Sale Discount) I am told that I will receive delivery in mid November. I know I got a great deal however P.C. Richard will not let you return the set if you're not satisfied. Does anyone know if CC would match the price? I would feel more comfortable getting it from them especially after reading about the potential of having stuck pixels. |
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zzo | BLev: the chances of getting a dead pixel on a LCD screen are WAY higher than getting a stuck or mis-aligned mirror on a DLP box. Check out: http://www.dlp.com/dlp_technology/images/dynamic/white_papers/135_Myth.pdf (it's marketing hype but pretty much true). I don't know what constitutes a 'dead pixel' w/LCOS - something in the chip itself has to get stuck. |
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David A. | It was informative, but I have a hard time believing it all. But I'll probably still get one. Now my question is what sort of discount on the $3799 price I can hope to bargain for. The 46" model doesn't seem to be heavily discounted online yet, probably because it's too new. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Sony SAT-HD300 vs Samsung SIR-TS160 set top box driving a Samsung 61" DLP - update. In the few weeks I've had my Samsung 61" DLP, I've been extremely satisfied with it. I've been driving it with one of the new new Sony SAT-HD300 receivers and the picture has been outstanding - even on 4:3 material. I have had some problem with some noise on some std channels that was traced to the Sony so Tweeter offered to swap it out. I also was a bit disappointed with Sony's take-it-or-leave it color choice on the Guide and found it's audio cut-out when switching in and out of the Guide a bit clunky. My wife also missed the caller ID we get on our basic Samsung receivers. When I popped into Tweeters today, I decided to try out a Samsung SIR-TS160 instead. It's $100 cheaper and has better menu features than the Sony plus it has Caller-ID. Well what a disappointment! The Sony is hands-down better than the Samsung's set top box. The Samsung's picture is grainer and a bit darker - even on high def - and my wife and I noticed that fast movement on the screen produced a slightly blurred image which is the sign of a slower processor. I tried driving it at 420p, 720p (native to the DLP) and 1080i with no difference - nothing beat the Sony. I was also getting really irritated with the inability of the Samsung to do a decent Panoramic zoom to the screen on 4:3 material. Either we get a letterbox, true 4:3 or a zoom that magnifies everything. Fill mode cuts off too much. It seems to be far worse with off-air ATSC HD material. The Sony handled this with aplomb - the Samsung has forced me to set the preference for a 4:3 TV just to get the screen filled. When I set the preference to 16:9, some 4:3 material (including some off-air HD feed) cannot be formatted to fit the screen at all). Aaargh! You would expect a Samsung box to drive a Samsung monitor correctly - wouldn't you? (and yes, I tried component input as well as DVI) My wife immediately noticed the big difference in quality and will gladly give up her on-screen caller-ID for the Sony's beautiful picture, so it's back to Tweeters tomorrow morning! Now we have been spoiled by the Sony, we can't go back. Hopefully, a future software update from Sony might iron out some of the minor annoyances, but the picture is stunning. My wife summed it up perfectly when she said the Sony's picture had a 3-D feel to it and the Samsung's was "boxy". I couldn't have said it better myself. |
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Nelson B | Does anyone have experience with a Sony KF60WE610. I receive the 60" Sony tomorrow. I am on the last week of the 30 day grace period from Circuit City. I presently have the Samsung HLN507. I love the picture quality on the Sammy but for the same money can go from 50" Samsung to the 60" Sony. In the store the Sony looks great, how will it look at home is the big question? The only real disapointment with the HLN507 is that on digital channels (thru Bright House Cable) when viewing in 4:3 format, I cannot fill the screen. The Sammy will not allow a wide mode. It is a brillant picture, but only 41". I was told by the salesman at CC that the Sony KF60WE610 has the ability to fill the full screen on digital channels (4:3 format NON HDTV)thru the Sony wide mode. I will report. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Nelson - as mentioned in my last post, I had aspect ratio issues with 4:3 material when I tried out a Samsung set top box yesterday, but I had no problems with 4:3 material with my Sony set top box. I have a Samsung 61" DLP. Some receivers have certain limitations in this regard when being fed from DVI (although I also had the problem with component in this case). It also may be due to the way your provider is formatting the feed. I am not aware of a problem with the Sammy's ability to fill the screen with 4:3 material (the 50" and 61" share the same engine so it would be common to both). As you are viewing cable, you may want to discuss this problem with your cable provider to see if there's a setting in the service menu of your cable box that needs changing. I think you have a set top box setting problem. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | YOUR CHOICE OF SET TOP BOX MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE! I'm back to using the Sony SAT-HD300 with my Sammy (see recent post). I got up early this morning and started channel hopping with the Samsung SIR-TS160 receiver I was trying out and can honestly say that it did a mediocre job of every channel including the high-def ones. I couldn't get it to properly format off-air ATSC HD channels and even the HD stuff looked noisy with motion artifacts and even the occaisional digital drop-out (producing small areas of digitized noise here and there on some channels). The results looked darker, grainy and motion on the screen caused the picture to look slightly blurred with loss of sharpness and definition. 4:3 material looked like crap. I hooked my Sony receiver back up and was surprised to get all channels without having to call the Access card ID back in to DirecTV. I called them and explained I was swapping back and to also make sure they had not added a 6th receiver to my 5-room account (you never know!). It sounds like the service rep yesterday never de-activated the Sony's card. Anyway all was well. A quick download of my Home Theatre MX-700 remote's setup file with the Sony configuration put me straight back in business with the Sony setup and I started surfing again. What a relief! I appreciate the Sony more than ever now. The 3-D quality and depth to the pictures is back, the pictures are brighter and the grain is gone. I've just been watching Top Roller Coasters 2002 in HD which gave me plenty of motion scenes and I saw none of the blur that the Samsung set top box had. 4:3 material (even older stuff) looks great and in a few cases one might be forgiven for thinking it was HD it looked so good (it fooled my wife a couple of times). The Sony's upconverter scalar hardware/software is superb. I'll live with the Sony's fixed menu colors and brief audio drop out when going to the Guide for now and hope that a future software update resolves this. Maybe they will add caller-id at a later date. As for the faint vertical noise I had previosuly reported on channel 200 - it was far worse with the Samsung box but there was so much noise on NTSC channels using the SIR-TS160, I couldn't discern whether this was the cause or not. Oh - and the Samsung took several minutes to display the 201 HDCP test channel (I got the error message at first saying it could not display it). The Sony never had that problem. |
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San Diego | Lawrence: I agree that the Sony feeds a better image than the Sammy receivers. I have a HLN46 and the 200 series of the Sony (killer price of $525!). I had problems with the Sammy box and swamped it out for the Sony. Does anyone know the difference between this model and the 300? Scalar? More bells etc? Please advise. |
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Keith in Fort Collins | Anyone know if it is possible to correct pincushion problems on a Samsunp HLN507W (50" DLP) in 4:3 (normal) mode. I can't find any setting to allow me to adjust this. I am seeing about a 3.5 mm difference between the left-top and left-middle. I also notice a faint dark area (kind of blueish) just to the left and right of the picture. This area is about 6-8 mm in width. Hopefully the pincushioning is adjustable or otherwise easily fixable or I will have to return this set again. I am on my second HLN507W. The first one had a couple of problems. On start up, the image would flash light and dark for about 20 seconds before stabilizing. The audio outputs on the monitor out also did not work. Also, the remote didn't work very well, you had to be almost aiming right at the sensor for it to work. The second unit corrected all of these problems except that I think the remote still kind of sucks. If I wind up having to return this one, I won't be buying another Samsung. |
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Bill - Detroit | In a Detroit area Circuit City store they had all the LCD / DLP TV's lined-up in a row for easy comparison (the only TV missing that would have made this a perfect set-up was the Philips LCOS). They had the Sony KF50-610 and the KF42-610, they had the Panasonic rear projection LCD, the Hitachi rear projection LCD, and the Sammy 61 inch DLP. I thought the Sony 50-inch had the best overall picture. I had small qualms about every TV that was displayed, but overall (including consideration of price)I thought the Sony 50-inch was it. The Hitachi was a close 2nd, Sammy DLP was 3rd, and the Panasonic rear projection LCD was 4th. They was all real close from a picture stand-point. I thought the Sony had the best appearance and the price (3199.00) was about $1000-$1500 cheaper vs. Sammy 61 inch You have to be careful in the stores because people fool around with the sets and they can be in funny modes (i.e. zoom modes, brightness settings, etc.) that make apple-to-apple comparison difficult. I am still waiting to see the Philips LCOS which I do not believe is anywhere in the Detroit area - even the Bose store indicated they would not receive it until after the new year. This was good because usaully you do not have a chance to see all the competitive sets that are in your shopping basket displayed all together. It's all so subjective - you need to have the right equipment to get the most out your TV. I also think I will switch from Digital Cable to Direct TV Satellite. I am on a special 6 month deal from Comcast (digital TV + High-Internet Cable line) for $54 month. Cheers - Bill |
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Nelson B. | I took delivery on the KF60WE610 and sent the Sammy HLN507 back to Circuit City. Biggest reason, 60" is better than 50". In HD viewing both sets delivered wonderful pictures. While using the Sammy HD931 DVD player with a DVI connection both sets performed beyond expectations. The Sammy 931 DVD player is an excellant addition to any HDTV with a DVI connection. When veiwing in 4:3 mode it is a real advantage to have the 60" set. In 4:3 mode the 60" delivers a 51" picture, while the 50" set delivered a 41" picture. Some differences between Sony and Sammy are as follows: In PIP viewing the Sony is hands down the better set. The Sony allows more size adjustment in the PIP mode. Also, Sony is more user friendly when changing inputs, from Satellite. to Cable, to VCR and DVD by depressing only one button. And you can lable the inputs on the Sony but not on the Sammy. The Sammy allows a Computer to be connected via input connections, the Sony does not. If you need to hook-up your laptop, Sammy is the way to go. For me it was not a consideration. Overall, I think the Sony is a better buy, about $800.00 less when comparing same size sets at list price. Discounts are available on all models. This forum has been a great help to me. Back in August I was certain I was buying a Phillips LCOS. As the HDTV market changes so quickly, it has been nice to share information with this group. Good luck to all. Nelson B. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | San Diego - glad to hear you agree with me on the Sony. I don't have any personal experience with the 200 model but I do know one major difference is that the 300 has "always on" 480i outputs which makes recording a whole lot easier. I'm sure that the software has been improved too. I have tried sending the signal to the Sammy as 480i (leaving the Sammy to upconvert) and also as 720p (native) and even 1080i which the Sammy would have to downconvert and didn't see much difference. I only experimented for a few minutes which was hardly time to conduct a thorough evaluation. I intend to re-visit this at a later date. I have the Sony set to 720p which gives me an outstanding picture. Regarding my experience with the Sammy receiver, it may be that this receiver is better suited to CRT monitors, rather than fixed-pixel displays such as DLP's LCDs and LCoS. I do have a couple of minor bugs and Tweeter have another 300 on order to swap mine out - I get a slight picture break up at the extreme edge of the picture when viewing std def material and as mentioned before, if I tune to channel 200, I can see some faint vertical bars of noise on the blue background (not present on high def) plus the audio mutes for a second when you enter and leave the Guide. As this is a new model, these may be software issues and I'm confident that Sony will address them. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Keith in Fort Collins - gosh this is an odd one. As the DLP uses a fixed light engine I'm trying to imagine how you would get a pincushion problem. It sounds as if the special fresnel protective screen on the front is distorted. I wonder if the light engine is badly mounted internally (if this is even possible). It's the first time I've heard of this. There is no pin-cushion adjustment (or any other geometry adjustment) in the user menus. Perhaps the service manu has one. I read in another forum that you can get to the Sammy's service menu by pressing Mute-1-8-2-Power but I've never tried it myself. If you do go in there, I'd be very cautious about changing anything. Best to exercise your warranty instead! As for the light-dark flicker, I think this is normal as the the high-pressure lamp warms up. Mine also pulses a little when coming on from cold, but it only lasts perhaps 10-20 seconds or so (never timed it), then it quickly stabilizes. This effect is common to some type of high intensity lamps and is nothing to worry about. Once my lamp has warmed up, the picture is rock-solid. I agree with you on the remote. I think the problem with the sensitivity is that the sensor is behind the screen at the front and too shielded. Luckily I have a Theatre-Master MX-700 remote so I never have to use the Sammy's one and the MX-700 has a very high IR output so it's far less directional. I hate having to press numerous buttons and navigate nested menus to get to one function. The MX-700 macro feature takes care of all that for me with one press of a button. I highly recommend it. The Sammy's picture is incredible, so I'd suggest you consider upgrading your remote rather than switch displays because of it. I picked my MX-700 up on e-Bay for $179 and was able to put all 10 of my a/v remotes into a drawer. The MX-700 controls my whole home theatre. Visit http://www.remotecentral.com/mx700/index.html for a comprehensive review on it. |
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Keith in Fort Collins | Lawrence, thanks for the recommendation on the MX-700. I really like the picture on the Sammy. I'm just a little nervous now on reliability. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Keith - I've heard less about the Sammy's reliability, compared to Sony's dead pixels and Philip's LCoS problems. Buy from a reputable dealer and if you are really nervous, invest in an extended warranty. DIRECTV ACCESS CARD ISSUE Well folks, my wife called me today to say there was no TV picture and a message on the screen to call DirecTV. After half-an-hour on the phone with them, it turns out the last "service representative" who did my swap back to the Sony SAT-HD300 from the Samung SIR-TS160 somehow managed to mix up the Access Card ID's and the card on the Sony got deactivated by their computer system after 24 hours - and if that happens your screwed and you need new card. DirecTV are FedEx'ing a new to us one at their expense but it will be Tuesday before we get it. Time to break out the DVD collection.... . Next time I call an Access Card ID change through to them, I'll be sure to double-check I'm not dealing with a rookie on the other end of the phone. |
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Bill - Detroit | Nelson - What discount did Circuit City give you on the Sony 60-inch LCD you recenly purchased?. In Detroit, I believe they were indicating a price of about 3899.00 ($3199 for 50-inch, and $2899 for 42-inch) Does Circuit city deal?? I know they sometimes have sales with 10% off (e.g. President Day sales) Will they throw in a TV stand, etc. I know Agoraquest.com (the unofficial Sony site that has group buy rates) is indicting free TV stands (at least for the new XBR-34-inch-910 tube TV). I am nervous about any of these new TV's via I-net - proces are great but I am worried about shipping damage, gray-market, service follow-ups etc. Cheers - Bill |
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Nelson B - Melbourne Beach, FL | Bill: I too was worried about an internet purchase. I asked Circuit City if they would match a 10% discount offered by Sears. They agreed. This was about three weeks ago on my purchase of the Sammy HLN507. I went back to the store last week and wanted to see the Sony KF60WE610. CC allows for a return or exchange in the first 30 days. CC did not have the KF60WE610 on the floor. However, CC agreed to bring the set to my house and let me view it in my living room. They also agreed to a 10% discount on the Sony. ($3999.00 less $400.00) This made the 50" Sammy and the 60" Sony the same price. All I needed to do was pay $40.00 for delivery and CC would take back the set I did not want. That was a very fair offer from CC. I selected the Sony (reasons are stated in the above post) You may get a better price on the Internet, but I don't think any internet dealer would offer a two set comparision. Good Luck, Nelson |
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| NELSON B: I just purchased the Sammy HD931 DVD player. I also purchased the very expensive DVI cable. While the picture does look incredible using the DVI connection, during darker scenes in movies, it's very difficult to see. However, when I switch back to the Progressive Scan mode, everything looks great, light or dark scenes. What am I doing wrong? I have the Sony KF50WE. Do you not see that problem with darker scenes? This is driving me crazy because it looks so great during lighter scenes, but if I can't improve the black levels with this player I'm going to take it back and continue to use my panisonic, which works great under any conditions. Let me know. Thanks. |
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| I just got my Samsung HLN507. When a show is broadcast in HI Def, it is phenominal. However, with regular cable the picture is fuzzy and really disappointing. Is there any way to fix this? Thanks. |
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| Does my HLN507 automatically upconvert 480i to 480p? Or do I have to change something and that is why I have a fuzzy cable and VHS picture. I saw a product called an upconverter that supposedly convet 480i up to 480p and beyond. It is called ADS HDUP1500 . Is this worthwhile or can I just adjust my tv to do this? Thanks |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Nelson - sounds like your set needs an ISF calibration. See if you can borrow the Video Essentials DVD from someone and at least do the pluge test to get your black levels correct. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Richard - the Sammy will do the upconversion for you - it should upconvert to 720p. That said, the quality of the signal from the cable or satellite box is SO important (see my earlier posts in this thread). If you send the Sammy a poor signal, the upconversion process may well make it look worse, instead of better. Much also depends on what input you are using too. DVI is best followed by component. If your cable box does not have these (I doubt it has DVI), then you'll have to settled for plain video or composite input. The lowest quality comes from UHF (coax). You might need to ask your cable company if they can enable a higher quality output from your cable box. The upconverter (also called a scalar) in the Sammy is excellent - in fact it contains circuitry from Faroudja who are considered the reference standard for scaling. Try looking at the back of the cable box to see if there is a switch to change the output type. My Sony SAT-HD300 can switch between 480i, 720p or 1080i. I tried all three and can say that the Sammy did a marvellous job of upconverting from a 480i input, but it is usually best to drive your monitor at its native resolution (which is 720p). Hope this helps |
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Nelson B | Lawrence - I think your post was for someone other than me. I have no idea what ISF calibration is, how to do it, or what it will do. Nelson |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Whoops, sorry Nelson - it was for Leonard. ISF calibration involves getting an ISF certified technician in to properly calibrate your HDTV set. It can do wonders for the picture as most sets leave the factory with rather below average settings that are not the best. An ISF technician can access hidden service menus and uses some pretty expensive kit to ensure the black levels are correct and so on. I'm rushing off to work now so can't elaborate but they do have a web site here: http://www.imagingscience.com/about.htm . There are ISF techs in every state. |
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| Lawrence, how much should I expect to pay? I'm sure the cost for something like that can get out of hand if you don't know what your doing. I've spent so much money getting the TV, audio/video equipment, etc, that I really don't have much more to spend on calibration. I did talk to a technician at Samsung and he said there is a known issue regarding DVI and Sony and other TV's with black level problems. He said he would send me a CD/DVD to correct the problem. Hopefully that will address the issue. But even aside from that, I feel there is more to be calibrated. I wish there was somewhere you could go on the web to get basic calibration tips on how your specific TV should be setup. Oh well... |
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Chris Hennessy | Leonard Try this: http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6463_7-5085739_1.html?tag=promo1 |
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Anonymous | I just purchased a 61" Samsung DLP from Cambridge Sound Works. My room is 22x14 and the viewing distance head on is approximately 15-17 ft. My eyes are all of a sudden hurting, can this be the TV and could it be too close of a viewing for a 61"? HELP... Not sure if I should down size. Also, not sure if it is just because I have watched a 32" for the past 7 years. |
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BLev | zzo, thanks for that article. Very informative. |
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MM | Hi all - first, just wanted to say AMAZING FORUM! - There's a lot of knowledge here - better than a hundred magazine reviews. First, wanted to mention that I had the Sears guy who sold me my Hitachi 60V500 put up a test pattern on the display model, and with careful searching my wife and I were unable to find a single "bad" pixel. At home, I hooked my computer up to my actual set (DVI on my computer's video card) and displayed both solid black and solid white screens, and couldn't find a single bad pixel on it either. So IMHO, bad pixels should not deter you from LCD screens. Second, I've read a lot of 1080i vs 720p debate on this board, and just wanted to mention that while 720p has a higher resolution, 1080i has more fps, resulting in smoother motion. Most people won't notice a difference between the two, but considering how much of an improvement HDTV is over standard, don't beat yourself up over 720p vs 1080i - it's really not worth it. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Hi Leonard - ISF calibration is not for everyone and you may not need it (probably costs several hundred dollars). I can say that nearly every review I read on big screen TV's extolls the virtue of an ISF calibration but the actual benefit may be more subtle. The big difference is that an ISF tech will get into service menus that the rest of us can't (or don't want to) get into. The first thing I would do is test another DVD player (but hard to get another DVI model, I agree). The Sony and Samsung may just be a bad "mix". P.S. Everyone: I got my DirecTV relacement Access Card today and made triple sure that the "service representative" on the other end of the phone entered it correctly and matched it with the right receiver. I would recommend that anyone else doing an activation makes sure they get it right at the other end. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Anonymous (re: eyes hurting) - that's interesting. My room is about the same and we too have had a 32" std TV for about 7 years but can't say any of us have eye strain (despite watching tons of DVD's and TV while we are in the "honeymoon period" with our new big screen!). We are viewing it from about 12-15ft too. In fact we have an L shaped couch, so my wife views it quite closer (about 8 feet). No problemo so far... What type of material are you watching the most - HD, NTSC or DVD? |
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Anonymous | Al, I am viewing standard digital cable the most, DVDs don't seem to bother me. We don't have the HD box from our cable company yet. However, I have been told the picture will not get any clearer with the HD box, only if the program or channel comes in HD, which is very few channels at this time. I too have an L shape couch, sounds like we have the same set up. Maybe I just need to get adjusted to the change. I did notice that it primarily bothers me when watching football or a show that has a lot of camera movement. |
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Anonymous | Anonymous, You are probably like me... one of the 5% of the population that is bugged by the "rainbow" effect of single-chip projection technologies. Other people think I'm nuts. Early DLP projectors made me nauseous and gave me a headache they were so bad. I must say, the new Sammy TVs don't hurt my eyes (I still notice it occasionally, but have to work at it), but then again, I've mostly been looking at smaller (46", 50") late model ones. "Normal" tv with lots of action and white really is worse than DVDs with less action. Personally, I want a 3-chip or Plasma, but can't afford either. So I am seriously debating about whether the Sammy will bug me or if I should wait for good data on the Toshiba 3-chip LCOS. Optionally I can continue to enjoy my fabulous 19" direct view until someone tackles this problem in a cost effective, reliable method. |
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Anonymous | FYI exchanged my new sony 42" LCD for another of the same model at CC. Picture was very fuzzy. If new one is the same, Im going with the Sammy 43" DLP. |
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Nelson B. | I have seen very little activity on this thread for the last few days. I wanted to say that there is no perfect TV. Each buyer must determine what is right for their situation. There are many good alternatives when looking for a large screen HDTV. This thread started as a way to look and compare the Phillips LCOS with the Sumsung DLP line. Phillips to this point in time has had many problems getting their LCOS to market. But Samsung offeres a great HD picture and new excellant competition has come from the new generation Sony Grand Wega LCDP, Panasonic LCDP, and Hitachi LCDP and more brands and models I know nothing about. It is a great time to buy a HDTV. DVD's and High Definition programing are are great leap forward in TV viewing. Good luck to everyone shopping for an HDTV. By the way, "Bride", who started this thread, how is your KF-60WE610? Nelson B. |
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Anonymous | Have a question. I have an opportunity to purchase a Sammy HLN5065 tomorrow for $3669.99 (before a 10% coupon good through 11/11/03) from BestBuy. I have been truly impressed with the 50" Sammy DLP every time I've seen it in action. I asked Best Buy when they would be getting the 507 in ... the guys didn't even know a 507 existed, but did the traditional comparison of both models via Sammy's web site, mentioning there's no difference. That said ... should I purchase the 5065 for $3300 (+/-) from Best Buy (4 yr. coverage = 300, stand = 300), or should I head - literally - next door to Circuit City, and pay the $4000 for the 507 (4 yr. coverage = 600, stand = 300)? I don't have digital cable right now ... something I'm thinking about upgrading. Besides, I'm hurting in a 20'x20' living room with a 19" TV. I'm ready for the upgrade, and it's an early birthday present to me. Welcome all responses -- DC in Indiana |
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Anonymous | Great info - I just got a HLN467WX after a long wait. I have comcast digital and was not able to get High Def until I set settings to 480 Is this correct? |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Anonymous re HLN5065 and HLN507W The HLN507W, from what I have read from other vendor's web ads, has the Faroudja DCDi scalar built in. I don't think the cheaper model has. That would explain the price difference. I would call Samsung to confirm, but if my information is correct, if I was in your shoes I would get the model with the Faroudja scalar if your budget will allow it, as it much superior. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Anonymous re Comcast settings Are you talking 480i or 480p? I expect you have 480p coming from the Comcast cable box and the monitor is taking that and doing the upconversion to 720p (its native resolution). This might be the best setting as I expect the scalar in the Sammy is better than Comcast's. My Sammy has 2 sets of Component inputs that accept 480p, 720p or 1080i AND one component input that only takes 480i or 480p. Make sure you are using the right input! The lower quality input types (std. Video, S-Video and UHF) will not support the higher scan options of 720 or 1080 (I think) and they are not a good choice to use anyway as quality will suffer. |
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Anonymous | Hey Guys. Anyone who has a Sony LCD had any problems using DVI connection from DVD player to TV? I have a new Sony KF-50WE610, and I just purchased the new Samsung DVI player (model# DVD-HD931). It's supposed to be the only dvd player out there that actually comes close to showing HD quality DVD's. See link: http://www.samsung.com/Products/DVDPlayer/Hypervision/DVDPlayer_Hypervision_DVD_HD931.htm If the image is bright or if it's a scene in the movie that has alot of light, the image quality is highly detailed (almost HD). But when it has to render black levels it fails badly. Any shadows or dark scenes (night scenes), sometimes I can barely see the person in the picture. But when I switch over to the progressive mode and turn off the DVI mode, the picture looks great, even the black levels. Has anyone seen this problem? I'm about ready to send the player back. I spent $400 in hopes to utilize the DVI. Let me know. Thanks! |
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Culpeppa | I finally got cable HD for my Sam HNL507W. Great HD picture, and believe it or not, the DNIe correction is readily noticable on the HD picture. On an analog input, DNIe is very subtle, at best. My HDcable box has a DVI port, but when I hooked it up to my TV, it showed connected, but no signal coming through. I suspect the DVI port on the cable box is not active. |
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Anonymous | Hi all, Great thread... I'm thinking of purchasing a 55 Cineos myself and let me tell you, you guys are so lucky if it comes domn to pricing. Out here in Krautcountry (Germany) the price for the 55 Cineos is 5,000.00 Euros (over 5,000.00 USD). Thinking about coming over to the states and picking up one by myself. Do you think the airline will accept it as hand luggage ;-) Anyway, I've read that the satelite receiver makes a difference. Looking at getting the Panasonic TU-HMS3 PVR receiver. Does anybody have any experience with this combination? Thanks and all the best, Mark |
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| Hi Kids:, Well, the mailman brought us the December issue of Consumer Reports. Unfortunately, the only T.V.'s they report on are the smaller sets up to 42" and below. The issue we want to see is the March 2004 issue which comes out around 08 February, 2004 and will rate the biggies which run from 65" to 42", I guess I'll wait until that comes out then make a decision (how long oh Lord, how long!!). If my 1983 Sony bought on May 4, 1983 (KV-2647R) (27") holds together until then I will look in to getting a new one if not, I will propably rent/lease one until that data comes out, it's too expensive an item to buy on chance and as you can see they last at least 20 and a half years before going kaput! |
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| I took a close look at Sony Grand Wega, Samsung DLPs, and Hitachi LCD this weekend. I was very surprised at what I found between the different manufacturers: 1. Sony 42 and 50-inch Grand Wega -- I wanted to like it soooo badly. A friend is a dealer and will give me a good deal on a set. He loves Sony... dislikes DLP a great deal due to reliability issues of 1st generation. Anyway... what I witnesses were poor blacks (lots of whitish in the black areas), screen dooring, unconvincing detail. I found the 42 and 50 inch models were exhibiting the same characteristics with HD signal, DVD progressive, or satellite dish. Graphics from Fox football were also fuzzy. Overall, Sony delivered the worst picture. 2. Hitachi LCD 50V500 -- I was impressesed. Side-by-side with the Sony the Hitachi ate it's lunch in every aspect. Blacks were better... but detail blew me away compared to Sony. I could see the screen door. but it was less detracting for some reason. Why is this TV not getting more press??? What I didn't like were the gray bars used for 4:3 viewing. Why did Hitachi do this? LCD does not burn in. 3. Samsung DLP 43 and 50-inch -- Hands down the best image of the bunch for any source. Period. Green hues were more evident in fleshtones than I would have preferred... I'm hoping these can be toned down. I stuck my ear by the base to hear the not-so-marevelous color wheel spinning away. That's not cool... I hate my PVR for making noise... now I may have two spinning tops in the living room. Again, the Hitachi blew me away considering it bested the Sony's by a wide margin. Granted, these sets are in the store and who knows what the settings are. But sitting there, it was undeniable the Sony's did not make the cut. And again, I soooo wanted to like then. I did not find my friendly sales person in Ultimate Electronics or CC to be in a wheeling and dealing mood. Posted price was it unless I showed up with a competitor ad. So... questions I have are... Who else has been checking out the Hitachi's, can the gray bars be elminated in 4:3 mode, and why is this TV not getting more play? Where can I buy a Samsung or Hitachi for a low price... mail order is perfectly fine at this stage as I am not into playing too many haggle games. I would be interested in hearing recommendations for buying through internet. |
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Boston | I have had the 55" Cineo on order from Tweeter since August and never received any unit, not even a defective one. Tweeter has been great and was customer-friendly enough to provide me with a Sony 50" GWVII while I have waited. As suggested in another forum today, I called 865-521-3435 (Philips service in Knoxville, TN) and was put in touch with a "Cineos specialist." He informed me that Philips began shipping the 55" Cineos to the retail stores (in my case, Tweeter) on November 7. He also informed me that Philips has done much more than "fix" the purple haze and other problems. It has also supposedly added several significant upgrades so that the new Cineos are even better than the few originals that did not have problems. For those who have held off, it seems as if we may know soon whether this has been worth the wait. |
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| I cheched out the Samsung 61" DLP today and did not think much of the picture. I wanted to like it as I needed to buy two TV's for my kids who will burn up CRT's with their video games. I did go over to another video store to chech out the new 60" Hitachi LCD Projection TV. I was just blown away by the picture quality and detail. I bought two on the spot for $3850.00 each. Much cheaper than the $4,600.00 quote for the Samsung 61" DLP at Tweater and a better picture. Everyone should check out the new Hatachi, excellent picture. |
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| I'm still trying to decide which type of wide screen display to buy. I liked the LCD until I saw a dead pixel on a set at CC. When the sales guy told me that Sony, Hitachi, Phillips and the others all had different standards as to the number of dead pixels a set had to have before it would be accepted for repair under warranty, I decided to move on since one dead pixel was too many for me. So... on to plasma which was quickly eliminated due to its high cost. Last but not least, a Samsung HLN507W DLP set caught my eye and I think this technology is the way I'll go. Does anyone have any info on the reliability of the second generation DLPs? |
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heartdoc | Just wanted to add back some thoughts as one of the few with a working Phillips set. So far after two months, no dead pixels, no color shifts or other new problems. No lines or breakups that some reviewers have mentioned. My only bugs were a couple of soft water like spotting(?dirt) and the mild bowtie/pincushion effect that is seen with vertical pictures. Phillips has decided to replace all the original delivered sets. They called and said they get me a new set in two weeks. My colors are good and can be quickly adjust from normal, cool, or warm. So far, my picture on high def looks very close to plasma. My viewing distance is about 12 feet. I looked at EDTV plasma which had a smaller picture and visible lines. The panasonics had great color, but Best Buy seems to always have Monsters, Inc. which makes any set look good. My DVD is the new Denon 2200 which gives an awesome picture plus DVD-Audio and SA-Audio. So, If you guys can wait a little more, I think it will be worth doing some in store comparison between the sets. Make sure you look at regular TV inputs. On Comcast, HD is up to 1080i. My box has a DVI output but I've been told it is not active. |
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Jas | I bought the HLN507W two weeks back and got to say the picture quality is stunning !! I have cable for my local channels and dish network for the rest. Picture quality is really great that I dont want to mess up the factory settings now. Dish network guys set up the HD receiver last weekend and the HD channels (only 4 of them) are stunning. Since Samsung delivers it in 720p, I tried changing the setting on the HD receiver from 1080i to 720p and I started seeing some gray bars. I guess the converter (scalar) on the HD receiver is not good compared to the Faroudja chip in Samsung. |
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| Has anyone been able to obtain an actual copy of a warranty for a Sony, Philips, Hitachi, Mitsubishi, or any other manufacturer of LCD large screen rear projection TVs that discusses in detail their position on dead pixels? I hate to beat a dead pixel to death here, but this really concerns me. I'm an old retired guy living on a modest income and perhaps need to watch my pennies a bit closer that most. If a manufacturer isn't willing to say what constitutes unacceptable performance vis-a-vis dead pixels, I don't want to buy his product. |
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Mike M | WireBrat - I am the proud owner of the Hitachi 60V500 and you are right on, this set rocks. I had a Sammy 61" DLP (HLN617W) for about a week before I returned it (couldn't stand the blue blacks and artifacts - rhyme unintentional). The Hitachi is great on every level, and it SHOULD be getting more press! William - I'll track down the warranty for you, but I looked at the Hitachi 50" and 60" in the store as well as my own unit, and didn't find a single bad pixel on any of them. |
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Anonymous | OK, my biggest question, I think with all my previous reviewing in person, and reviews, and technical discussions I'm gonna go with the Samsung DLP....so, the only question I'm left with is going with someone like ONECALL, whom I've dealt with before, tax free, free delivery, but full price, a local retailer, or some other online source? I've always preferred going somewhere I can return the unit, etc, locally, for large value purchases, and have only used online for DVD players and similar price range items. Any help/comments on locations to buy? I'm willing to pay more for conveniece/service. Thank you |
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| Hi, I'm from 'Krautcountry' and ordered the Philips 55pl Cineos last month. But now all devices are postponed to April 2004. They seem to have bigger problems with the LCOS-Chips. And the prize in Europe is not 5.000 Euro, you can buy it for 3.800 Euro (about 4.000 $). |
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| New hope for the dead pixel? Here's an interesting statement from Jason at onecall@onecall.com. The question I sent was: "Do individual LCOS pixels die? I've seen a number of LCD rear screen projection TVs with dead pixels. If LCOS pixels do on rare occasions die, will the set be replaced during the warranty period regardless of the number, type, and or location?" Here's the answer: "Unfortunately all of the LCOS technology is on hold. The models that were released by Philips and Toshiba have all developed the same problems. We do not expect to see any LCOS TV's until next year at the earliest. Though pixels do die, they only show when they are in the process of dying. Once they are completely dead they disappear and are filled in by the adjacent pixels." |
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| This is somewhat encouraging: electronics@samsung.com QUESTION: I am considering the purchase of a Samsung DLP TV model HLN507W and would like to see exactly what is covered by the warranty. Do you have a website where I can read this warranty? If not, would you be able to send me a copy in the mail? I have ruled out all large screen TVs using LED technology because of the dead pixel problem all manufacturers seem to be having with this issue. A single dead pixel would be unacceptable in a television for which I paid two to three thousand dollars. DLP seems to be the way to go unless it too has problems with display technology. ANSWER: Dear Customer If a DLP chip is dead. We will fix it..only problems we do not fix is physical damage or any damage caused by an act of God, for example Lightning. Everything is covered for one year parts and labor in home service. Thank you |
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| William you seem to be overly concerned about these technologies, it really doesn't matter btw lcd & dlp, it's the enduser preference - which you think gives you the best picture & has the features you want, yes lcd pixels get stuck, but in sony's defense they're one of the best audio/video companies out there (you don't get that reputation by half assing it), most stuck pixels are small clusters you can only see from 2ft or less away, anything noticeable from 7ft. or more would be replaced by sony (it's virtually impossible to produce a lcd panel without any dead pixels). Anyway in my opinion lcd offers the truest to lifelike picture available, dlp is also very sharp but the colors are not as life like. DLP mirrors simply don't get stuck, it's possible, but very unlikely. Both types of tv's are extraordinary pieces of technology & will serve you well. I personally thought that the picture on the sony lcd was better, but both were so close I ended up buying the dlp for the pc connection & I am very happy with it so far. Anyway I'm still looking at lcd & lcos for a future purchase of a 42"+ tv possibly in the next year or so for my basement. Lcos will undoubtebly improve & is the only one of these technologies that has the potential to get significantly cheaper, anyway whatever big tv you buy always get the extended warranty (bestbuy seems to have a better price point on warranties than circuit city) |
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| Thanks for the ideas Quant. Perhaps being retired has given me too much spare time as evidenced by this tendency I have to obsess on trivia. Still, a company that refuses to release specific information regarding what constitutes product failure under its warranty gives me cause think twice before spending my hard won pension dollars. I am not singling out Sony for their failure to provide detailed warranty info. The entire industry has been remarkably reticent when it comes to this subject. Since you seem to be knowledgeable regarding these matters, what set in your house currently provides the most satisfaction to you and your family? I'm still watching my ancient Sony 35" CRT and am very pleased with its picture. |
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| Many prospective DLP customers (myself included) have been trying to determine the technological difference(s) between the HLN5065W and HLN507W. The definitive, yet confusing answer from Samsung follows: "1) The cabinet width dimensions on the HLN507W is about 2 inches less with its slim bezel design 2) The HLN507W is featured with the Faroudja DCDi de-interlacing solution and the built in 3:2 pull down 3) The HLN5065W is featured with a Film mode circuit for 3:2 pull down correction. Both sets will deliver the same performance and especially when connected via a progressive scan DVD player with 3:2 pull down or an HDTV receiver / tuner device that output 480P, 720P or 1080. The scanning frequencies of a Progressive scan DVD player with 3:2 pull down or an HDTV receiver bypasses the circuits and go directly to the Scalar that converts everything to 720P, the native display or pixel count of the display panel. One is as good as the other in terms of picture quality." This begs the question, "If they are equal in picture quality, why the $300-$500 difference in price?" Is there a techie out there who can translate Samsung's response into something this humble lay person can understand? Thanks. |
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| William, the picture on my 50" samsung is great, especially when watching a dvd on the weekends & I'm also a gamer so my xbox is simply outstanding on this set also, I haven't switched to hd cable / satellite yet and the regular digital cable signal looks ok but not much different than my analog set (maybe slightly worse) so yes I still find myself watching some non hd tv on my analog 36" set but I can no longer stomach watching dvd's on my analog tv's, all around I'm extremely happy with my dlp unit, I will get hd (satellite) sometime in the future, but probably a little later than sooner when more hd content becomes available, one of the reasons for purchasing this tv was that I felt with broadcasting having to switch to hd over the next few years why sink $1000+ into a large heavy projection tv with a inferior (compared to lcd & dlp) quality picture? Chech, if everthing your going to watch is from at least a dvd quality source then save a few dollars & get the 5065 but if you're going to watch anything non-hd or vhs on this tv, then the faroudja chip (507W) is a must have, just think about this, if you take a 480i signal & blow it up several times larger than what it was designed to be viewed as, it can look pretty awful with out some help. Samsung's 507W is great at this, as is sony's "digital reality creation" (drc) & phillips "pixel plus", everyone has there own name for but they basically do the same thing. Almost every major brand offers higher end tv's with the faroudja chip. |
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| QuantumGuy, you really gave a lot of excellent info in only two paragraphs. Thanks! Sure wish you worked at CC or Best Buy but I'd hate to see you work for 20% or less of your current salary. The 507W is definitely the object of my affection at this point. |
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Ken Gaglione | Is the Samsung HLN507W a NEWER unit compared to HLN5065W? We have a 5065 on order and are now having second thoughts. Salesmen compared the difference to Sony's WEGA & XBR lines. Any ideas? |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Chechilbetahola: The $300-500 difference in price can be summed up in one key word: Faroudja. The more expensive model has the Faroudja DCDi circuitry built-in and you can bet Samsung pay them a royalty for that. Faroudja make the best video processing solutions in the industry, period. A top of the line Faroudja processor such as their DCS model will set you back $10,000, but even their scaled-down processing circuit in the Samsung does great things for the picture. In my opinion, it's worth the extra bucks. The picture on my 61" DLP is stunning and it does a superb job of upconverting NTSC 4:3 material. DVD's look fantastic and HD is truly lifelike with a 3-D quality to it. Just remember that the resultant overall viewing experience you achieve will be a sum of all parts. A great picture comes from having a good feed, good set-top box, good DVD player, good cables and a good monitor and everything setup right. If your set top box provides a mediocre signal and you use a lower quality input instead of component or DVI, then even the Faroudja processor may not help you get a great picture. Likewise, an interlaced DVD player will not be as good as a progressive one. It's best to remember that the video processor's job is to make a good picture look great, rather than to make a poor picture look merely "good". Always remember to focus on getting a good signal into the TV in the first place. |
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| Lawrence of Madison, thanks for your continued enlightenment. Very edifying for a lay person such as I. Your linear logic re good feed, good set-top box, good DVD player, good cables and a good monitor makes sense even to me. But, alas, I wouldn't know a good set-top box from one your earlier mentioned diplexers. So please, for my continued edification, gimme some frinstances, e.g., I gather you recommend the Sony SATHD300 as your set-box of choice? What about DVD player, cables, etc. Thanks again. Chechilbetahola. |
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Anonymous | Hi Stonewall, Thanks for your input. Here's the other guy from Krautcountry ;-) Sorry to hear that about April 2004. Could you tell me where you got this super price? The cheapest I've seen on the internet for the cineos was around 4,700.00 Euros and now they are back up to 4,999.00 Euros. Otherwise I was not able to find any German dealer. Thanks and all the best, Mark |
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| Just got the Samsung HLN567W. Great set, although currently don't have HD (suppose to be available next month). Anyway, all my previous tv's have been adjusted by ISF by Joe Silver, as I live in south Florida. I understand that this set can't be "adjusted". My question is what settings has everyone been using to "optomize" the picture? Color, brightness, sharpness, etc? Any suggestions would be benenficial. Thanks. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Chechilbetahola: Actually, I knew very little about the market a year ago. I spent ages gleaning as much as I could from sales staff, forums (such as this one) and from magazines such as Home Theatre Magazine, The Perfect Vison, Widescreen Review and so on (subscribe to them all - it's worth it). I read them all cover to cover. I quickly realized that the magazines tended towards really high brow stuff so I had to keep my feet on the ground as I had a budget and it didn't include $ 1,000 + DVD "reference" players and so on, but there were loads of reviews on middle priced equipment that met my needs and budget. I also looked at numerous web sites touting "free 4-room installs" and so on and realized that most of the "free" deals included very basic equipment so I ruled out "free" as the old adage "you get what you pay for" made pretty good sense to me. I wasn't about to buy a 55"-65" big screen and connect it to very basic receivers. I did not like the idea of a "now you see them, now you don't" out-of-town installers either. That left a wide middle range to match to my budget. The interconnects were a no-brainer as Monster Cables seemed to be the wisest choise (get them on the web and save a fortune off retail). I also decided to use DVI for the Sat feed (thus ruling out cheaper set top boxes). I also wanted an "always on" 480i/480p output for recording purposes which further eliminated the SONY SAT-200HD and it's Zenith equivalent and some others. (This of course after having decided on DirecTV for service). The Sony SAT-300HD was a leap of faith as I still have not read a review to date but it had DVI, 480i/480p outputs for recording and my entire rack is Sony so I have faith in their product. I was not disappointed with the picture (but there are some menu features that could be better). My DVD player is a progressive Sony DVP-NS755V. It got good reviews and supports SACD and it was under $199. Great picture! For power conditioning and surge protection, I got a Monster Power HTS5100 on eBay at a great price ($469 vs $799 retail). Again, I read a review on it and others. Likewise a review on the MX-700 programmable remote hooked me on it ($179 off e-Bay vs $399 retail). It is a small but key component in my system. It makes my complex home theatre system easy to control by even my 9 year old daughter! My wife loves the fact that she can stick the other 8 remotes in the drawer now. Always get your wife on your side - makes the "big" purchases a lot easier!! The two big purchases I made (the set top box and the TV) were from Tweeter. I could have saved quite a lot buying them from a web store but wanted the ability to return them if not satisfied (or if there were technical problems). Tweeter were fantastic is meeting my needs and helping me try out the Samsung set top box. I had them do the dish install and their installer was very knowledgable and professional. So, the bottom line is first to identify your budget range. Shop around for everything but the big items on the web and eBay. Second, research thoroughly so you know when salesmen are full of sh** and you will be able to tell if they are trying to meet your needs or sell the inventory their floor manager told them to push. It was on the web where I found out how to combine an attic antenna with the Sat feed then split it back out with diplexers so I could pull local channels on HD off the air. I bought the needed Terk 5x8 splitter off eBay for just $67.50 ($ 129-149 at local retailers). An RCA +25dB UHF amp to boost the UHF off-air signal cost me $19 with $ 7.50 for each diplexer from a local electronic store. Thirdly, try to see your equipment choices in action and make the saleman show off 4.3 TV and the stuff they don't want to show (bring your own DVD's or even your own player even). Finally, choose reliable, knowledgeable vendors (both retail and on the web). Latch onto knowledgable staff and ask them a gadzillion questions (Tweeter staff love this and unfazingly answered every question accurately). If you hear a saleman infer a monitor is HDTV ready but you know it can only display Enhanced Definition (because you read all those magazines and know this!), tell him he's full of it and walk away! Everyone's budget is different but if you feel uncomfortable with a purchase, don't buy it if there's no firm return policy. Big TV's are not an impulse buy - patience and knowledge pays off. |
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| Lawrence of Madison. Thanks again for taking the time to enlighten this wannabee. My research has thus far been limited to the web and forums, and, although I'm learning more each day, your comments confirm what I already suspected, i.e. I've much more to learn before I bite on one of those dish specials currently omnipresent on the web. As I progress with my education, may I continue to impose on you for clarification when I come up against the BS? Thanks. Chechilbetahola |
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| Hi Mark, please send me your e-mail address ! |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Chechilbetahola - Sure! I check in to the forum at least once a week. Hey everyone - if you are in the market for a great DVD player, Home Theatre Magazine (Dec 2003) just reviewed the Pioneer DV-563A Universal Disc Player (plays DVD, SACD, DVD-Audio, MP3's and has a Photo Viewer function). All for $250. This was enough for them to score it with an almost unheard of score of 99% for Value (sheesh - whatdaya have to do for 100%?). Its progressive output was stunning too so this is one cool toy. The street price might even be lower.... |
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| Bought the Pioneer DV-563A after much research. It's lived up to all the great things said about it and more. The manual says it won't play DVD+R/RW but I haven't had any problem playing them. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Michael - How much did you pay for it? |
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MI | Does the Pioneer DV-563A play various burned dvds? Or should i just get a apex that plays everything? Also as for my TV, only issues I had was it turned off on me two times. I had to unplug and plug it back in and it was fine. I called philips on it, also to just get the office word on the status of the TV. There is an official recall on the TV, so since my fell into the production batch that had issues, they will send me a brand new tv delivered and installed. I don't think the TV has any picture problems, but whatever I rather be safe then sorry. So I should have a new tv in two or so weeks. Ill post back on how that goes and if i see any real difference. MI |
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richard jablonka | I have HLN507W, my first widescreen tv. Isn't it true that you should be able to watch Widescreen DVDs without the Black bars on the top and bottom of the screen. Do I need a special DVD player to make this happen? Or do I need to make adjustments to the TV? |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Richard - No, sorry, that's not true. HDTV is transmitted in an aspect ratio that is optimal for 16:9 screens, but most DVD's fall into either fullscreen format for 4:3 TV's or the movie theatre standard 2.35:1 aspect ratio. This is because the film is recorded onto the DVD that way by the movie company. The majority of widescreen DVD's are produced by the studio to "preserve the original aspect ratio of the actual film" which translates to a ratio of 2.35:1 which in turn equates to a screen size of about 21x9. This is the true size of real movie theatre screens. In order to avoid chopping off some of the movie at each end, they shrink the whole image down while preserving the original aspect ratio so you get a screen size of appx 16:8 (hence black bars top and bottom). A few movies are cropped so they fill a 16:9 screen fully (My Big Fat Greek Wedding is an example). In this case, you will see an aspect ration of about 1.78:1 on the DVD sleeve (do the math and you will get a screensize of 16:9 which is the size of your TV screen). There are a few other variations, but these are the most common. In order to fill the whole screen when playing a 2.35:1 movie, either your DVD player or the scalar in your TV has to do some re-sizing or cropping on the fly but few have this feature. You cannot change the aspect ratio of the DVD signal in the Samsung, but your DVD player might have this option if you dig into the menus. Generally speaking, you can only choose between fullscreen 4:3 and widescreen 16:9 on most players. It might be possible to get additional screen size adjustments if you feed the signal via lower quality input (not DVI or component) but you would lose a great deal of signal quality so this is not a benefit. |
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Brian D Dallas | Hey guys, I finally went for my first big screen TV yesterday. At the Circuit City here in Dallas they had the 60 inch Hitachi (60v500) on sale for 3599.00.. (It was a Thanksgiving weekend sale) The total cost including tax and delivery was 3940.28. Delivery is in a week. Sears also sells this TV, but as someone said before, they aren't receiving delivery from the manufacturer until Q1 2004... This TV is 1000 less than the comparable sized Sammy DLP and still has outstanding quality which is the reason I opted for it instead... Thanks Lawrence for all the info you put in your last couple posts. Looks like I'm going to need it. |
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Gino | T'is the season and I'm jumping into the fray. This message board has been an invaluable research tool, and I'm leaning toward the Sammy HLN617W, so here's my first question: As the dlp techonology improves to "second generation" and beyond, is there some way (via product number, serial number, or otherwise) to ensure that I'm getting the latest model/technology? Or do we just assume that what we buy today incorporates the latest improvements? |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Brian - that's a heck of a deal getting the 60" for $3599. Good Job! I've heard great things about Hitachis. Let us all know how it works out. |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Gino - Samsung's DLP's are already at second generation, so the next series out of their factory will be third generation (due in 2004?). The current models use the newer TI "Dark" DLP chip. Presumably, 3rd generation DLP chips will have even better resolution and black-level. It's always a good idea to dig into the deeper menus of your TV, DVD and HDTV receiver and take a note of the software revisions you are running at. That way, you can track developments to see if there's a software upgrade that might be available to you (presumably newer revs either fix bugs, improve performance or add features). Satellite receivers may get automatically upgraded via your network provider (cable boxes too I assume), but DVD and TV monitors would not. If you discover you are running an older revision you will probably have to contact the manufacturer in question to see if you would qualify for a free service upgrade. If you buy boxed product (especially the HLN617W which has a fast inventory turnover) then you will probably be getting the latest builds, but open box product may not be the latest version inside! Make sure you ask your dealer pertinent questions in that regard. Of course, physical hardware upgrades are rarer and usually you would have to have a more serious problem to qualify for those (the recent spate of 1st generation Philips Cineo recalls would be an example). |
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Anonymous | Lawrence- Did you mention what set-top box you have for direct tv? Could you recomend one that will be able to display HD? Also, do you know a good site to review cables. You recommended monster cables but I know their are many types and I would like to learn more before I purchase them. TV is in next week. thanks for your help |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Anonymous - I have the new Sony SAT-HD300. I have posted extensively on it in this thread (long thread now so you might have to search a bit), so I won't repeat myself too much. It does an awesome job of HD and also on std 4.3 material upconverted and zoomed to 16.9. On cables, in my opinion, there is probably little to gain from purchasing the real high-end THX certified cables from Monster unless you have an equivalent top of the line system or have an unusually noisy environment or very long cable runs (in which case, absolutely do consider them). I usually purchase their mid range cables for most applications. They have an excellent cost-performance ratio. There are other brands out there, but I can't comment on them because I have not used them. I would also consider a Monster line conditioner (I have the HTS-5100) as this can make a tremendous difference, especially if you have dirty AC in your area. They also come with a huge amount of insurance coverage in case your big TV investment gets zapped by lightning. Hope this helps! |
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Anonymous | LCOS Owners, wherever you are? Mine is coming soon hopefully? I read this on a sound and vision article: "The undisputed champ for sheer variety of display modes, the Cineos offers seven ways to resize standard 480i programs, but it can't resize progressive-scan or HDTV material." What does this essentially mean, is this a bad thing for us potential LCOS owners or is this the standard for most high-end TV's now? Also, Lawrence in AL, have you heard any news regarding that direct tv HD/ tivo unit you mentioned a while back that was supposed to be here by the end of the year? It stinks that their are not many options for set-top boxes for us direct tv'ers that want hd and that they are around $700. My buddy who has comcast said it is only an additional few dollars per month to get an HD box. It also stinks that you can't get HD in local channels without an OTA antenna. Oh well, hopefully their will be more options coming out soon with a lower price point. thanks for the input Ryan in Maryland |
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Michael Owen | RE: difference between HLN507W and HLN5065... this has been discussed quite thoroughly on the AVS forums and it seems to be the consensus that the to sets are the same except for the color of the bazel. The Faroudja DCDi scalar is in both sets (although it is not advertised in the 5065), you can see the options for it in the service menu. Hope this helps. MO |
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MI | I just got an offer from philips to extend my warrenty to 3 years for 317 bucks. Which blows away prices Tweeter were offering their extented warr. Philips say they will include labor and parts as well as if they cant repair the TV they will replace it with a new one or a model of sim or better quality. I think Im going to get it as it is the cheapest coverage for the tv. Anyone else get these offer? MI |
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Lawrence in Madison, AL | Ryan in Maryland... I don't know of any TV that lets you resize 16:9 HDTV signals so the Philips LCoS is no different (what would you resize it to anyway?). The same goes for DVD progressive signals. DVD player setup menus often need to know whether you have a 4:3 or 16:9 screen, but once the signal has been formatted by the DVD player and gets to the TV, there's no re-sizing available at the TV. Not sure if there are any DVD players that can take widescreen and crop it off for 4:3. Anyone? On HD Tivo, the latest I heard from my sources in Tweeter last week is that we're still looking at Q1, 2004. I agree that decent set top boxes are pretty pricey. The problem is a simple case of market size. Until that space hits big volume, the price points will remain high. Eventually, they will come down. In fact my Sony SAT-HD300 is not really made by Sony at all (and neither is the Zenith model based on the exact same motherboard and chassis). They are both made by LG for Sony and Zenith respectfully!! No doubt this is because it is not very profitable to design and tool up for high-end DirecTV receivers from scratch yet. According to market research, many more will buy into widescreen TV's in 2004, but not all will subscribe to satellite and even then, not all of those will be DirecTV subscribers. Even so, DirecTV is by far the biggest satellite provider so the best investment. On local HD channels, there are simply way too many local stations for DirecTV to service them all - it would be quite impossible or very expensive (or both). If you have an attic, it doesn't cost much to add an antenna and run a cable (or you can use a multiswitch and feed the antenna signal on the same cable as the satellite then diplex it out at the other end). It's nice to get some HD stuff for FREE! |
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