Archive through April 11, 2010
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New member Username: Homebrewer66Post Number: 8 Registered: Jan-10 | I would say 20 years based on the Sony Style that was posted on Steve's site. "your tv may last a lifetime" That is what I am going to do in my Small Claims case. |
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Bronze Member Username: BarbblackSouthborough, MA Post Number: 60 Registered: Nov-09 | A couple more tips gleaned from previous settlements that could be helpful: 1. Don't be sidetracked. If pre-trial negotiations fail and you do enter the courtroom, be very careful not to confuse the judge with any last-minute Sony offers to "sell" you "replacement" TVs--and especially offers for *free* refurbs. Sony's goal has been to appear that they are making "good faith" offers which you are too stubborn/greedy to accept. 2. Avoid any discussion of repair, other than to state clearly that it cannot be done. Do not get into ANY negotiation about optical block repair costs. |
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Silver Member Username: SlinkePost Number: 144 Registered: May-07 | Sony's marketing claims, such as "Grand WEGA may be the last TV you ever own" was obviously hyperbole, but it is consistent with what we were being told when we purchased our TVs. In any event, the expected life span of TVs is far more than 7 years and should be closer to 15 or 20. If Sony uses the 7 year number in a trial, it should be made clear that this number likely reflects laws that require Sony to maintain replacement parts for that period of time--not the expected life span. During my trial, I used 15 as a reasonable number. The Sony rep said 7-10. I think the judge averaged my 15 and Sony's 10 to come up with 12.5. If you round that 12.5 down to 12 and the Sony rep uses 7, the judge may very well use 9.5 (or anything else he wants). I also think that everybody who plans to purchase a Sony TV in the future should be aware that Sony feels that 7 years is the expected life span. |
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Bronze Member Username: BarbblackSouthborough, MA Post Number: 61 Registered: Nov-09 | I would say at least 15 to 20 years. Check out these two websites: http://www.professorshouse.com/your-home/computers-electronics/lcd-vs-plasma-tv. aspx (See fourth paragraph.) http://www.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/lcdtv/lcdtv-misconceptions.shtml (See "Misconception #2".) |
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New member Username: JfaaborgPost Number: 9 Registered: Nov-09 | Question? in California when I file my SC do I just need the completed SC-100? |
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Silver Member Username: SlinkePost Number: 145 Registered: May-07 | Jon, you should also ensure that the papers get served on Sony. If you request it, the Clerk of the Court will do this for you by certified mail using the information on the SC-100 for an additional $10 fee (recoverable if you win). You should also check out the California Small Claims Self-Help page, as well as any other pages specific to your county. |
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New member Username: NasamanPost Number: 9 Registered: Feb-10 | Thanks Barb |
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New member Username: Taz3000Post Number: 3 Registered: Feb-10 | Mike - In your appeal letter did you referenced the Florida Implied warranty of merchantability Law? |
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New member Username: Taz3000Post Number: 4 Registered: Feb-10 | - |
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Bronze Member Username: Simply_billPost Number: 34 Registered: Nov-09 | Mike I saw your post about Sony wanting to settle before the hearing. I guess they figure that it will cost them 4 hours of the lawyers time and cutting you a check would be cheaper. What they don't want is a trail of victories that will encourage others to file. The lawyer would be guilty of malpractice if he didn't include a non-disclosure in the settlement. In the end it really doesn't matter because if we never hear from you again we will all know you are sitting in your living room watching your non-Sony TV paid for by your settlement. Go get em' |
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New member Username: JfguayPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-10 | Hi all, I am a Canadian owner of a KFE42A10 model with the blue blog/aura problem. It was manufactured in Feb2006 and I bought it in May of that year. I've asked the tech support team to do something about it but they have referred me to Customer relations - sounds familiar? I will be calling them today to see what can be done. There is a Canadian extended warranty on models different then mine but I would suspect that my tv had the same flaws and should be treated with the same deal. By the way, someone had suggested that the blue blob problem could be tied to the replacement of the bulb - I am still on the original lamp so I guess this rather tells us that the issue probably occurs during the same time the lamp would be due, without being necessarily caused by it. I am thankful I found this forum which will give me valuable insight when dealing with Sony. |
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New member Username: AkimboOH Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-10 | Hi. My name is akimbo and I have a !)(*@$(&%! Sony Rear Projection TV.  Here is my story. In March 2006 we purchased a KDF55XS955. In the past few months, a blue shadow or blob appeared in the lower left hand corner of the screen. Woo Hoo! The dreaded blue blob!  Now we have an emerging "star field" of blue dots emerging across the screen. We're even starting to name constellations formed by the blue dots during the dark portions of shows. And people's skin have blotchy blue patches. Very nice feature! So we contacted Sony technical support. First they denied the existence of the problem, twice. Once in chat and once by email. Then we got the offer call on 2/16. They said they recognized the optical block problem existed but the TV was out of warrany and followed that with a verbal and then emailed offer to allow us to purchase a flat screen LCD model at a "discounted price" as follows: KDL55EX500 $825.00 KDL46VE5 $525.00 KDL40Z5100 $440.00 If you decide to accept the offer, please contact Sony at 888-993-7669 within 1 week. A week later we replied to the offer by email and told them that we could not accept their offer saying we have very little confidence Sony will support the replacement TV (with it's limited warranty) and protect us from this type of inherent problem and "out of warranty" situation again. That we would spending an additional $1000 (with tax and shipping) to buy another TV with a potential problem and virtually no protection or recourse and that we'd be following up with our Attorney General. So, we filed that complaint with our state Attorney General (Ohio) and that is in progress. Previous complaints filed with the state have not had any better success than we have had already (we've done a public records request on some of them). The Attorney General basically says that if Sony disagrees with our version of the problem then the Attorney General can't help us. As though Sony is going to agree that they screwed up. Very funny. So we have very little help there. Next stop, according to the Atty Gen would be small claims or private counsel. So once the Atty Gen turns us down, we'll send the dreaded demand letter and appeal to the executive committee, which always goes well. We're thinking we're on our way to small claims court by the end of the month. We really don't want to go to small claims, but we feel we cannot let Sony just walk away from this. Thanks for everyone posting what's happening to them (and to Steve for the fabulous summary page). |
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Silver Member Username: SlinkePost Number: 146 Registered: May-07 | I updated the Expected lifespan of a rear-projection liquid crystal TV section on my web site with some additional information. |
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Silver Member Username: SlinkePost Number: 147 Registered: May-07 | Robert (Taz3000), if you end up accepting the offer of the free refurbished TV, try to establish with Sony beforehand their policy about returning it should it end up not being up to the expected standard. And be sure and document all problems you have with it. |
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Silver Member Username: SlinkePost Number: 148 Registered: May-07 | Darron from AZ, it should not matter that you bought the TV in a different state, or that you lived in a different state when you bought it, or where you live now. You should have the same (or similar) legal rights. |
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New member Username: Mombasa00CA US Post Number: 5 Registered: Jan-10 | Amazing! I may be going down the same road as everyone else. SEL replaced my optical block under extended warranty. Less than a month and it's failing again already! I called them and they said to call the outfit that serviced me. I call the outfit and they tell me that SEL will only replace once then they'll give you other options. Anycase, following their procedures, the servicing outfit called them and they said they will get back in a 1-2 days regarding next steps! Wait and see game... |
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New member Username: Taz3000Post Number: 5 Registered: Feb-10 | Hi Steve, I haven't decided yet about the free refurbished TV and it's not likely I'll accept it. I have until March 12th to decide. I've an appointment tomorrow with a tech - the same one that was dispatched on Feb 17th by Sony to assess & confirm my TV has a warped lamp door access as Sony didn't believe me. Last week, I reported Sony the 2nd optical block failure. Sony refused to have it evaluated. I decided to go ahead on my own and I will have it evaluated tomorrow. I need proof the recently replaced optical block has failed again. The tech's assessment report will be a plus for me in any future negotiations with Sony and also a necessary item if I'm heading to small claims court. |
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Bronze Member Username: Simply_billPost Number: 35 Registered: Nov-09 | Any word how Mike M. did in his case today? |
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Bronze Member Username: BarbblackSouthborough, MA Post Number: 62 Registered: Nov-09 | I was wondering the same thing. I'm assuming he settled with Sony before the trial. If so, I'm sure they won't let him divulge the details of the agreement. But can he be prohibited from simply reporting the fact that he accept a settlement from Sony? (What about first amendment rights? Any lawyers out there?) |
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Bronze Member Username: Simply_billPost Number: 36 Registered: Nov-09 | The First Amendment says the Government can't stop your speech. A person can sign away that right if they choose to in a court case. I am hoping we aren't hearing anything because he is out celebrating. If he had lost they couldn't have required him to not talk. Heck, they would have posted if had lost. |
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New member Username: Taz3000Post Number: 6 Registered: Feb-10 | Steve, I contacted Sony today, to get details on their return policy regarding their free refurbished TV offer. I was told this: If for any reasons, I'm not happy with the TV, I need to contact them and they'll picked it up and Sony will resend another one. I asked the rep; how many happy returns I was allowed to? She didn't know. She said all will depend of the reasons why I'm returning it ... and if my reasons are justify or not. |
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New member Username: JfaaborgPost Number: 10 Registered: Nov-09 | Just filed my SC. Took 30mins. Thankx Steve for the templates |
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New member Username: RobderbsPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-10 | I filed in NYC Small Claims court last week. $20 and an hour to get downtown from my office. Court date is April 7. |
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New member Username: TdmaPost Number: 3 Registered: Dec-09 | pulled the trigger on a 55lh90 from LG to replace our kdf60wf655. Also picked up a blue ray, non Sony. Never ever again sony I couldn't be happier. Would ,ike to hear how Mike M made out on his claim, I live in FL also. |
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New member Username: Homebrewer66Post Number: 10 Registered: Jan-10 | I filed mine in IA Friday. 95$ for me no court date yet. Thanks everyone for all the info. |
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New member Username: SjragPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-10 | Thank you for everyone sharing their information and updating this forum. Especially, thanks for Steve Linke for taking the efforts to provide so much details. I am afraid I am having some symptoms described in this forum, but could not find a direct answer for the next steps. I applogize in advance if I missed something. Please share your recommendations for my next steps. Model: Sony KF-50 WE610 (KF50WE610) Date Code: May 2004 LA2 Bought in June 2004 with extended warranty (4 yrs) that expired in June 1 2009 from Good Guys in California. I paid $2999.00 for the TV (hate to see, NOW, that was the MSRP) and paid $499.00 for extended warranty. Total with stand and tax was $4000.00 I am seeing a blue light spread like a crescent from the bottom center. And it comes after the TV has been on for a while. It is not a big disturbance yet, but I feel it is going to get worse. I checked the lamp housing (did not open to see the light, just opened the front panel and looked at the lamp cover) and seems to be intact. - I am going to open the cover again and check the lamp and surrounding areas (based on what I read here). Since I am our of warranties (extended on the lamp), is there any other course that is going to help me? Is there any kind of California consumer protection laws that will help? Will some of the cleaning stuff will help? Thank in advance for the support. |
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Bronze Member Username: JfaaborgPost Number: 12 Registered: Nov-09 | This page has gone quiet. Any news from other SC? |
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Bronze Member Username: BarbblackSouthborough, MA Post Number: 63 Registered: Nov-09 | Sony is sending lawyers after people who file in states that allow attorneys in SC court, and it's working for them. People in California and Michigan (no-lawyer states) don't have to worry about that and are likely to get a fair hearing with a reasonable chance of a decent award. Those filing in "lawyer-represented" states might be wise to take the best acceptable offer in pre-trial negotiations. You can hire a lawyer yourself, but that could get expensive unless you win. Anyone know of other states that have Lawyer-Free Small Claims courts? |
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New member Username: JjhawksjjPost Number: 8 Registered: Dec-09 | Barbara, when you say "it's working for them" how do you know? I haven't seen anyone one here stating that they went to their court hearing and lost due to the fact that they live in a state where lawyers are allowed and Sony used that to their advantage. I live in Ohio and am planning on visitin my local court to file. At this point however I need to do some digging to see if lawyers are allowed in SC courts in Ohio. If they are, I may have to rethink things. |
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Bronze Member Username: Homebrewer66Post Number: 11 Registered: Jan-10 | Hasit mattered that a Sony lawer has been there yet? I know that in IA lawers are allowed. Makes me more prepaired. |
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Bronze Member Username: BarbblackSouthborough, MA Post Number: 64 Registered: Nov-09 | JJ, There was a case lost to Sony on Friday by a person who filed in New Jersey. He felt very confident of his case going in, but he got a judge who was completely hostile to everything he presented and wanted to know why the plaintiff hadn't brought a TV repairman with him to be an expert witness. The judge basically rejected everything the plaintiff had on paper (which included stacks of supporting letters and documents), and the judge and the Sony lawyer spoke in legalese the entire time, leaving the plaintiff dazed and literally defenseless. Steve Linke has made some comments on this case on the "I Have a Defective Sony TV" Facebook site. People need to be aware that this kind of thing can happen when lawyers are involved. |
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Silver Member Username: SlinkePost Number: 149 Registered: May-07 | Keep in mind that New Jersey small claims court is apparently very strict on presentation of testimony. The "If you are the plaintiff, you must prove your case. Arrange to have any witnesses and records you need to prove your case at the trial. A written statement, even if under oath, is not admissible in court. Only actual testimony in court of what the witness(es) heard or saw will be allowed. Prepare your questions in advance." According to the plaintiff in the New Jersey case that was lost, he was hammered repeatedly by the judge and Sony's attorney for presenting inadmissible evidence, which was probably based largely on this rule. It is always best to make the strongest case possible, including witnesses, if possible. However, I doubt that it is true in all states that allow attorneys that only evidence provided by live witnesses will be allowed. For example, New York allows attorneys, but a case was won there (without any live witnesses). In my California case, I was able to cite a very recent high-level California appeals court decision that strongly supported my implied warranty of merchantability claim (Mexia v. Rinker Boat Company). Potential plaintiffs could use this ruling, although it may not be consistent with their state's code and/or case law. They might be able to do Google searches for "implied warranty" and their state name (or alternative searches) to find some case law to support their cause. In theory, the judge should help this process in many small claims venues, but the plaintiffs are probably much better off if they can point the judge in the right direction by citing some warranty codes and case law, particularly with the possibility of being assigned a pro-business judge who opposes consumer protection. In addition, potential plaintiffs should probably familiarize themselves with all small claims rules in their states. If there are any obvious unknowns with the case, including perhaps the fact that they know Sony is sending an attorney, the risk-benefit of accepting a settlement offer from Sony vs. going to trial should be considered. |
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New member Username: MadmannToronto,canada Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-10 | I need to find out how to find the 'number of hours of usage on my LCD panel', I have a kf-50we620 and I'm able to access the service menu, but I have no idea where to go/look once I get inside. I'm currently awaiting an offer from sony regarding 'the warped door issue'. One more thing, there is currently no bulb in the tv, I dont think this is a problem viewing the service menu. madmann |
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New member Username: NasamanPost Number: 10 Registered: Feb-10 | Steve, In the NJ case, do we know what Sony's initial unacceptable offer was, what their pre-trial negotiation was and what the plaintiff walked away with? I beleive there are other cases in NJ coming up, one on March 16th. What should that plaintiff expect? |
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Silver Member Username: SlinkePost Number: 150 Registered: May-07 | madmann, check out my Sony Service Menu page. However, you will need your lamp installed and functional, or there is no way to display the information. |
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Silver Member Username: SlinkePost Number: 151 Registered: May-07 | Thanks, Brian May! Good one! :-) Those numbers were part of what I assume to be confidential negotiations between Sony and the customer, although I assume they were similar to other offers that are well-known. Perhaps the pre-trial offer was about $1,000 or $1,500 or $2,000 in cash? If your relationship with Sony gives you the power to waive the confidentiality and reveal the exact numbers, we would all be interested in that information. Please get back to us. |
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Bronze Member Username: BarbblackSouthborough, MA Post Number: 65 Registered: Nov-09 | And Brian...don't you miss Freddie Mercury? |
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Bronze Member Username: NasamanPost Number: 11 Registered: Feb-10 | But I guess whatever the amount was, after trial there was nothing. Unfortunate. |
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New member Username: Conedreill1027Post Number: 10 Registered: Nov-09 | I have to disagree Brian May, that person has dignity that Sony lost when they kept selling these defective sets and screwed their customers. He/She took a stand and learned how low Sony will stoop. So I really admire him/her for having the Balls to go before the Judge, a Sony Attorney, & expert witness all alone. I am proud of anyone who tries win or lose at least they can look themselves in the mirror with pride and know they did not just roll over. That is worth more than $. My SC is next week in NJ luckily I recruited a free laywer a good friend who is willing to represent me. Additionally, a few family members are engineers, graduates of Manhattan College with impressive positions. One lives in NJ so it won't be a problem getting to the court. They were really surprised how the other case in NJ went and are happy to support me. How lucky am I! Nothing like friends and family. Either way win or lose I feel it's admirable to stand up for ones self. You would think that Sony would know that bullying is unacceptable in today's society. It only make them look worse than they already are. Nobody likes a bully. |
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Bronze Member Username: Conedreill1027Post Number: 11 Registered: Nov-09 | One more thought. Win hopefully or lose there is always class action suit which is brewing. Continuing contacting news media local and national, letter writing, notifying every consumer protection group you can find. Your government representatives anyone who will listen. Eventually a top network or news media will take notice and blow the lid off this story. We just have to be relentless, never give up, if you lose in small claims, pick yourself up, brush yourself off and do something else. In the spirit of St. Patricks Day: May the dust of your carriage blind the eyes of your foe!" |
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New member Username: MadmannToronto,canada Post Number: 2 Registered: Mar-10 | Steve, I installed the old lamp - and the lamp is dead, . The screen was all black and the menu was green lettering on the screen. So its good to know that you don't require a working bulb t see the service menu. I would also add that the instructions are little off through your link 'sony service menu page', but I just kept pushing the buttons until I saw the lamp info, only 8100 hours on mine, thats 13% of the advertised 60000 hours. Still awaiting sony's reply thanks for the info madmann |
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Silver Member Username: SlinkePost Number: 152 Registered: May-07 | madmann, Seriously? You can see the service menu without a lamp installed? I would think there has to be some sort of light source projecting through the LCD panels in the optical block in order for the text to appear on the screen. And without a lamp, I don't know where the light would come from. The service menu instructions are derived from Sony's service manuals. However, I do not have the one for the WE620 (Canadian) model you have, so perhaps there is a difference. It most like the WE610 model. Did you look at those instructions? Well, at least you found the desired information. Steve |
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New member Username: Ilya_hhjjMarkham, ON Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-10 | I have the KF-50WE620 with the blue pixelation, and have been in contact with Sony since Jan this year. Sony dragged out the original resolution offer process for over a month and then when I asked for a quote on another model replacement it's been over a month. I only see small claims as an option here, but the consumer protection act here in Ontario is much more loose than other provinces/states in terms of TVs. Since Sony's trying to make me give up by wasting my time, should I wait for the class action law suits in the States and Quebec to take action so that I have some reference cases? |
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New member Username: MadmannToronto,canada Post Number: 3 Registered: Mar-10 | Steve, I did install the lamp, but it was burnt out. As far as the light source, the screen was black except for the green lettering of the service menu. I did access the service menu prior to returning the lamp I bought, and when I entered the service menu then, the screen was lit but it was the snowy picture - like there was no signal. The instructions listed through the link you provided said to push the 'jump' button - this does nothing so I moved to the next step and it said to push "2" 9 times - I think I had to push it 40-50 times to find the lamp info. On another question to you or any of the other posters, how would you come to a fair replacement comparison when I originally paid $4800 for a tv I expected to last 15+ years and that was supposed to last 60000 hours, but I only used it for 8100 hours (13%). Should I compare it to where it was in terms of 3rd most expensive tv in fall of 2004 and look for replacing it with the 3rd most expensive tv currently sold by sony? Or should I subtract the 13% from the cost of the tv I paid originally and expect something in this dollar value range? I understand that the cost of tv's have come down dramatically so..... madmann |
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New member Username: CaddisPost Number: 2 Registered: Feb-10 | I'd planned to accept Sony's price reduction on a new TV however my wife has convinced me to go after Sony for a better deal. So I'm drafting up a letter to the executive review committee and Howard Stringer. Depending on the outcome I may end up filing a small claims case. |
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New member Username: Raerther916Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-10 | hello all new to the forum but not this this issue- I had a 2003 42 inch first gen that had the road mapping issue- Since i was one of the first i chucked the TV after 18 months when the road mapping issue happened. So fast forward to 2007 - I buy ( what im told is a reengeneered) KDSA3000, SXRD set - Guess what - Blue ghosting now occuring Sony will only offer me repair... What the hell. I was going to be easy - just wanted out of the OB tech, I told them very firmly that i would not accept a repair. I get a manager on the line who tells me the same even after i state that im in Califirnia and wil take it to court if need be. Funny since i would take the replacement at redused cost- Why is Sony pushing em so hard? They say that the A3000 has not had that many reported failtures at this point and will only offer the replacemnet after several repairs... What purpose does that service Sony? How is that cost effective for them? Im calling American Express to see if they can assit since they have the buyers protection - i guess a letter will be draffted for the next step, anyone else offered just a repair ? I would even go for the refurb - im not going to go through the pain of repair just to wait for it to fail again |
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New member Username: ToddortsPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-10 | This site was a great help. I was set to spend $1000+ on a repair for my 60" SXRD TV that has the dreaded "yellow stain" problem all over the screen, but I was lucky enough to stumble on this site and get all of the great advice. I ended up calling the Sony Ft. Myers number listed on Steve Linke's web site, and as soon as I mentioned that I already knew it was an optical engine problem, they listed me a bunch of offers for brand new TVs. The deal I ended up taking, simply because I don't have the time to deal with small claims court, was the KDL55HX701 for $550. They also offered me a 46" model for $250, and a 42" model for only $50. Thanks for everything you guys have provided here, especially Steve Linke. Made a big difference for me, even though I didn't go to trial. |
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New member Username: Raerther916Post Number: 2 Registered: Mar-10 | Hey Todd- which model of SXRD? Sony would only offer me a repair- which i will never accept as a ticking time bomb. I would also buy the 55 for 500 if Sony would exend me that offer. My set is the 2007 model and Sony says that since im still covered by the extended warranty - all they could do is fix- How insane is that - Do you have the number you call - and i can try that route, |
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New member Username: SjragPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-10 | Back on my problem with...Model: Sony KF-50 WE610 (KF50WE610) Date Code: May 2004 LA2 Contacted Sony esupport and they told me as it was out of warranty get it repaired on my own, or as Sony cares about their customers I can speak to someone at this number: 1-888-993-7669 Is this the number to call to discuss about potential other options? Toddorts please share the number you called. |
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New member Username: ToddortsPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-10 | I called the "priority service" number listed on Steve Linke's website: 239.768.7547 I guess this is the number for the service dept in the US instead of the call center overseas. The rep asked me a few questions (when did it start having the problem, have you called us before, did you try unplugging it, etc.), and then he admitted that it was an optical engine problem. He told me I had two options: 1. Have a local service company come out and fix it, which would be at my expense; or 2. Take one of their discount offers on new TVs. I had to take the label off of the back of my TV that has the serial number on it, attach it to a piece of paper with the customer service event number, make a copy for my records, and send it to their office in Ft. Myers. When they receive it, they will process my order for the new TV. |
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New member Username: ToddortsPost Number: 3 Registered: Mar-10 | BTW, my TV was an older SXRD model: KDS-R60XBR1 manufactured in 2005. |
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New member Username: Raerther916Post Number: 3 Registered: Mar-10 | I called the number got fricken central America.. I guess ill try Monday... |
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New member Username: SonysuxPost Number: 4 Registered: May-07 | Just an FYI.... Once Sony made me the offer to buy a new TV at a reduced price they had me set it up by calling 800-430-4433...this number is only available M-F 9:00am - 5:00pm. So I assume it may be in Ft Myers or at least the eastern US. Funny thing.....they sent me the TV after I paid by credit card and they never sent me any e-mails or other documents or had me sign anything. So far I am very happy with the 55" EX500. |
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New member Username: Raerther916Post Number: 4 Registered: Mar-10 | Got to Ft Myers- they say my model KDS-50A3000 is only elligible for a repair- WTH.. I do not want a ticking time bomb... Going to court- Oh and they lied saying that the OB is reengineered, that is why they fill only fix it- they say it will not re-occur- I asked for documentation they said there is none... |
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New member Username: Raerther916Post Number: 5 Registered: Mar-10 | just off the phone with ( PH) ony again - here is the address for thier legal dept. SONY ELECTRONICS CORP 16530 Via Esprillo MZ7180 San Diego, Ca 92127 Fax- 858-942-9123.. Filling out court paperwork today- Sony See you in Small Claims - Roseville, ca |
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New member Username: SjragPost Number: 3 Registered: Mar-10 | Bob, Toddorts: Are you under some warranty? You seem to have gotten a "decent" offer. Here is what the first-level support offered me...for my 50" WE610....5 yrs old, out of extended warranty finished last year..total spend was $4000.00... Apparently these are 50% discount from retail...I feel I could easily buy brand new 50 to 60" TV for similar prices off the street. KDL52EX701 $1250.00 + local sales tax KDL46NX700 $860.00 + local sales tax KDL46Z5100 $740.00 + local sales tax Any suggestions/ideas on how to go about this next? |
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Bronze Member Username: BarbblackSouthborough, MA Post Number: 66 Registered: Nov-09 | Only owners of the XBR1 sets are getting those "decent' offers. If you own any other model, Sony will charge you approximately twice as much. (The XBR1 set was the subject of the settled Class Action suit, so that might be the reason.) |
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Bronze Member Username: Homebrewer66Post Number: 12 Registered: Jan-10 | Got a letter in the mail today from Sony. I thought it may be a better offer but it was a notice to appear. Now I wait for the court date. |
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Bronze Member Username: Homebrewer66Post Number: 13 Registered: Jan-10 | Quotes from George Bailey, Chief Transformation Officer of Sony Corporation. From http://gizmodo.com/5499447/sony-responds-we-are-never-going-to-be-as-narrow-as-a pple "I guess I'd have to admit that over the last several years we did lose a little focus on that. It's clear that some of the things that delighted the engineers in Tokyo were not the things that delighted consumers in San Francisco, New York, or Brisbane. So I first have to start by acknowledging there's probably more truth then there should be in the idea that Sony--all the Japanese electronics companies, but including Sony--have lost some focus on what makes consumers delighted, happy, and adds value to them." |
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New member Username: Zocor5thIndiana Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-10 | First of all I want to thank Steve for his website that he set up of all the problems. I own a KDF-E42A10 Manuf Feb 2006 and started experiencing some of the optical block problems. I sent an email to the 3rd email address Steve had on his site. Funny thing is I gave them no phone number. The next day my phone was ringing and I got the 3 offers from Sony. KDL-52EX701 $1050 KDL-46NX700 $ 660 KDL-46Z5100 $ 540 I know the class action is still ongoing with this model and am not real sure how to proceed. Kinda tempted for the 46NX700. |
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Silver Member Username: SlinkePost Number: 153 Registered: May-07 | rag, California small claims lawsuits have favored consumers over Sony. See my Small Claims Lawsuits page for details, including all of the documents from my California case, in which I was awarded ~$2,300. Others from California (and elsewhere) have indicated that Sony made an approximately $1,500 cash settlement with them prior to trial, which would save both Sony and you the hassle. Your results may vary. |
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Silver Member Username: SlinkePost Number: 154 Registered: May-07 | JJ, Ohio does allow attorneys, but they seem to have more relaxed procedures/evidence rules. They seem to allow letters, etc. rather than exclusively live witnesses and expert testimony, like New Jersey. Similar to what I wrote in my last post, Sony may make you a pre-trial settlement offer that makes the trial moot, but your results may vary. |
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Silver Member Username: SlinkePost Number: 155 Registered: May-07 | Toddorts and Zocor5th, I'm happy to hear that my web site proved useful to you. Zocor5th, yes the A10/A20 class action is still pending, and I have no idea what stage it is at. If you accept Sony's current offer, you likely would not be able to participate in any class action settlement/judgment. However, that is only a possibility, not a reality. It is up to you decide whether to accept the offer, demand a better one, file a small claims lawsuit, or wait for a potential class action result. |
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New member Username: SjragPost Number: 4 Registered: Mar-10 | Hi Steve, Thank you for your repsonse on my California legal actions (small claims). I do have just one more question before proceeding that route: Sony has offered me 52" KDL EX701 (Costco model and price is 2000.00, 3 yr Sony Warranty) for 1250+tax, and I am out out of warranty. That model may not still be there today..but just for reference. Would the court consider above a reasonable offer and rejcect my claim - (I paid $2999.99 + tax in 2004 + 4 yrs warranty + stand = $4000.00) |
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Bronze Member Username: Homebrewer66Post Number: 14 Registered: Jan-10 | Got my court date today in the mail. April 9th in Polk Co Iowa. Now need to hustle to get all my documents together. |
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New member Username: TmstruthersPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-10 | I have a KDS-R60XBR1 that I purchased in December, 2005 for about $4500. I started noticing some color differences on the screen last fall. I checked the troubleshooting section of the manual and assumed it was the bulb (which had not been replaced at all). I finally broke down and purchased a bulb in January, replaced the old one and my problem was still there. I have yellow "roadmapping" all over my screen and it's been getting worse. I did some investigation on the web and ran across Steve Linke's web page. I ended up calling Sony and was originally presented with two options. 1 Sony would pay $925 towards the repair of the optical block or 2 I could get $925 off the price of a new TV at SonyStyle.com After reading the postings, I concluded that the repair was only temporary as the problem has never been corrected by Sony. We made the decision to purchase a new TV. However, we waited for a couple of weeks after sending in the model/serial number sticker with no contact from Sony. Meanwhile, the TV we were expecting to purchase kept increasing in price. I was set to call Sony again to complain after discussing the issue with friends but received a voicemail from Sony when I got home that day. They presented me with another offer. 1 New KDL-46VE5 at no cost 2 New KDL-55EX500 for $225.00 We ended up getting the KDL-55EX500 as I couldn't see going from a 60" to a 46" screen. We're happy with the new TV but I currently have the old TV in parts in an attempt to remove the optical block. I intend to get it repaired and keep it as a spare TV in another room until the optical block goes out again. Does anyone have pictures of my model after dismantling it? I'm having difficulties locating the hidden screws holding the optical block in. |
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Silver Member Username: SlinkePost Number: 156 Registered: May-07 | Tim, I think you need to remove the front cover (the trim piece on the front of the TV below the screen) by removing a screw or screws on the back side of the TV. Removing the front cover should reveal about four screws near the middle of the TV. These hold the optical block to the front of the TV. This is a different setup than the 3LCD models, in which the optical block screws are accessed from the back of the TV. Steve |
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New member Username: Ad142Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-10 | TS I THINK YOU RECEIVED A PRETY GOOD PRICE ON THE 55". I JUST RECEIVE MINE TODAY AND I PAID $825. HOW OLD WAS YOUR? BROUGHT MINE IN 2005. AD |
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Bronze Member Username: Homebrewer66Post Number: 15 Registered: Jan-10 | Hi everyone hope you had a good weekend. My case is in less than 2 weeks and would like to see if everyone that has had this issue, received an offer from Sony, and Accepted an offer from Sony would email me a personal letter with the facts of their situation that I can present in court. Message me and I will give you my email Thanks. Jeff |
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Bronze Member Username: LisamcguPost Number: 62 Registered: Nov-08 | Sony paid to replace my OB. Is that what you mean by offer? |
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Bronze Member Username: JfaaborgPost Number: 13 Registered: Nov-09 | Lisa, did they pay for 100% of the repair? Did they offer a warranty? |
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Bronze Member Username: LisamcguPost Number: 63 Registered: Nov-08 | They paid 100% for the repair, but not without alot of upset on my part. You may look at my past posts. As for the warranty ... yeah right? I would love to sue in regular court for a lifetime warranty. I would have to do the research to find out how much an extended warranty like this would normally cost, which may be a bit of work. Anyway, it doesn't matter because along with the cost of the warranty, in regular court one can ask for punitive charges. The sky is the limit on those. Waiting has been good because certain items have come to light including the ad Steve has with Sony stating the life expectancy of these tvs, and finding out they filed for patents to address the overheating problem before they starting selling the tvs, and the class actions. Just biding my time ... maybe a fraud suit ... |
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New member Username: Indian_guyPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-10 | I have a Sony KDF-60XS955 television with the blue discoloration problem. Contacted Sony last night who basically said I have to pay for repairs and service it myself or I could get one of the following TV's at a discount from Sony in lieu of holding Sony liable for any claims. I am appreciative of the fact that they did not try to B.S me and owned upto the optical engine defect and offered me this option but I am also extremely thankful and aware that if not for actions on the part of many of these members in this forum, especially Steve Linke, without whose efforts Sony would have flat out refused to play ball. KDL52EX701 $950.00 KDL55EX501 $750.00 KDL46NX700 $560.00 What do you guys think? My initial thought is this is a fair offer, the only gripe I have is that the largest screen size on offer is the 55" as opposed to a 60" I own. I live in Maryland where the small claims court does not require lawyers. |
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Silver Member Username: SlinkePost Number: 157 Registered: May-07 | AT, Check out THIS POST on Facebook. It looks like somebody was offered the same TVs as you, each for $150 less than your quote, even though she has the 55" version of your model. I would press them for that offer at a minimum. You have other options, as well, as described on MY WEB SITE. I'm glad you found my information useful. It is important for consumers to be on a level playing field information-wise when negotiating with companies like Sony. Steve Linke |
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New member Username: SjragPost Number: 5 Registered: Mar-10 | I tried my best to negotiate with the call center people (case handlers) and spoke with supervisor as well. They did not budge. They kept saying FINAL for this model. Looks like I got the most expensive deal here for KDL52EX701 for $1250 + CA tax (9.25). This is selling at Cost Co for 1999.99 This model uniquely has 3 yr warranty thru this replacement deal or just from retailers like Costco. Anyone has been successful in negotiating w/o going legal? |
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Bronze Member Username: Homebrewer66Post Number: 16 Registered: Jan-10 | I just got a call from a rep from Sony's legal department. They asked if I would be interested in settling this case. I told them I would listen but she said she does not have the authorization to give a full refund. I did not even listen to the new offers. I told them I was disappointed in the Sony brand and did not trust any replacement TV and rejected any offer that she would have. Told her I will see her in court. Let them spend the money to fly to IA. I know living here it is not cheap to get a ticket and the connections are really bad. Salary's and expenses. I am sure they will add up to almost the cost of my suit. Thanks to Steve and the others I feel good about my chances. I have a lawyer friend that has helped me put things together and he says I have good arguments. I guess we will see. Win or Loose I feel like I am a winner standing up to the business practices of Sony. |
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New member Username: AkimboOH Post Number: 2 Registered: Mar-10 | Good Luck Jeff. I hope you get what you want out of this (and that you can tell us about it ) |
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New member Username: MikeyzgcdSan Diego, CA USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-10 | Hi All, I've been following this thread for almost a year now and decided it was time to do something about my ghetto TV. I have a KDF-50WE655 that has the blue blob/starfield issue with the OB. I did the usual steps of going through tech support and getting nowhere. I finally decided to send my Demand Letter last week and the Sony office in FL just called me today. The rep only asked me what the Serial# of my TV was and got straight to the offer. It was similar to AT's above: kdl-52ex701 950.00+tax kdl-55ex501 750.00+tax kdl-46ex700 400.00+tax kdl-55hx701 950.00+tax She told me I had a week to decide. I have no wish to give Sony one more penny of my money. I plan on moving forward with submitting my paperwork for Small Claims court. Since I too live here in San Diego, I feel I have a good chance of getting a settlement like Steve Linke's. I just wanted to thank everyone here, especially Steve, for all of their great insight and information. With the information Steve presented in his case, I am hopeful of getting something out of Sony. I'll keep everyone updated with my situation. Thanks! |
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Bronze Member Username: Homebrewer66Post Number: 17 Registered: Jan-10 | Got a letter from a well known Law Firm Saturday telling me that they will be representing Sony in my case. |
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Bronze Member Username: Homebrewer66Post Number: 18 Registered: Jan-10 | Got a letter from a well known Law Firm Saturday telling me that they will be representing Sony in my case. 4 more days till court. |
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Bronze Member Username: Homebrewer66Post Number: 19 Registered: Jan-10 | Got a letter from a well known Law Firm in Iowa Saturday telling me that they will be representing Sony in my case. 4 more days till court. |
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Bronze Member Username: BarbblackSouthborough, MA Post Number: 67 Registered: Nov-09 | Great! Sony will get to pay plenty for the lawyer. Win or lose, you are definitely doing the right thing. Hope you get a judge who will truly LISTEN to the truth, and not Sony's version of the "facts". Please don't let them silence you. We need all the info we can get for our own upcoming Small Claims hearings. |
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Silver Member Username: SlinkePost Number: 158 Registered: May-07 | Pale Ale, here is the Iowa Implied Warranty of Merchantability code. There may be arguments about the fact that latent defects existed at the time of sale and whether there is a statute of limitations on reporting the defects. Be prepared to support your case on these fronts, preferably with case law from Iowa. |
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Bronze Member Username: NasamanPost Number: 12 Registered: Feb-10 | Steve, You're going to send him in there with this??? |
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New member Username: Wedge1Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-10 | I have a KDS-55A2000 television that I purchased in early 2007. I have been very pleased with the quality. It was a more expensive set at the time but I carefully researched the available sets and decided to trust Sony. I have very poor eyesight (nearly legally blind), so I was amazed and thrilled to have a set that I could see. The screen size and HD upgrade have meant the world to me. Recently I have noticed a severe green tint on the screen. This was about four months after replacing the bulb for the first time. I was really disappointed by this. I learned about the prevalent optical block problem in the SXRD tvs. This is really disheartening. I have always loved Sony and I was confident they would take care of me. When I called, the representatives were rude and slow to respond to any inquires and offer help. I was amazed by this. I was a manager at an Apple call center and they would never treat customers this way. In the end they only offered to repair the part. It is well known that these repairs will fail. I worked incredibly hard to earn that tv and now it is unusable. I called the repair center suggested by Sony and was given the run around. They claim I need the receipt (for a three year old tv). I no longer have it but do have credit statements proving its purchase. The repair centers also stated they were very familair with the optical block issues. They have dome many replacement on them including a large number of multiple replacements for the same tv. It is well documented online that people who have accepted repairs quickly have the same issues again. There also have been multiple successful small claims court cases against Sony due to these tvs and their defective repairs. So I have wasted the day getting no where with anybody. I filed a complaint with the BBB and will be sending a Demand letter tomorrow. I am really grateful for all the information available at the various sites linked here. I'm sure I'll have to head to Small Claims Court. Any additional tips for someone in AZ. |
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New member Username: Wedge1Post Number: 3 Registered: Apr-10 | I have uploaded a picture showing the green issues I'm dealing with. |
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New member Username: JimwaterlooPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-10 | I am dissapointed that we are not being treated as well in Canada. I am hoping to get a better deal from them. Some people are getting a much better deal even in Canada, when on the phone, they told me I could not. I am not sure that a fix with a 90 day warranty is good since the engineering defect has not been addressed. I also have not heard of anyone going to small claims in Canada. Any other Canadian experiences |
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New member Username: JbwingzPost Number: 2 Registered: Feb-10 | Jim, not sure if this helps, but here's my Canadian experience, I'm in Cambridge and was offered a new KDLVL150 for $750 +tax (incl.delivery and 1 year warranty). I had a KF50WE620 made Aug '05 and purchased from Sears Canada Oct '05. I discovered the "issues" with my TV last summer. The "issues" got steadily worse so I went online and discovered this forum and Steve Linke's website and was well educated by both. I finally decided to call Sony Canada this January....told them I had an "optical block issue" and they didn't give me any run around....not even a "proof of purchase" request for my receipt. They simply asked me to email them digital pix of the problems on my TV screen along with the mfr's label on the back. I received an email offer (as described above) 2 weeks later....I pushed back for a better offer.....they said no, take it or leave it. I took it and got my new TV, which is a bit bigger than what I had, a couple of weeks later. I'm thinking that had I complained right away last summer I may have either A) received a better offer or B) received an offer to fix as at that time perhaps it was still "fixable". So you never know I think a lot depends on your pix and the severity of your "issue" and the age of your TV. Hope this helps a bit. |
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New member Username: JfguayPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-10 | Jim, I have a KDE-42A10 with the OB problem bought in 2006 for $1600. Thanks to the efforts of this forum's "pioneers" the Sony Canada support came back immediately with an offer, no run-around. While talking to them, basically I could choose any Sony model I wanted and they would give me the cost associated with my choice. Wanting to keep my cost down and not needing all the fancy new features, I chose to go with a KDL-46EX400 for $565 with a one year warranty, taxes and to my door shipping included. Since my TV had not cost me $4000-$6000 like many others, I didn't think I could get a better deal through the courts. |
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New member Username: JimwaterlooPost Number: 2 Registered: Apr-10 | I'm seeing people getting good offers and I see that the BBB has them rated as an F. I have seen one person in Canada get the same set offered to them at $300 less. What they offered me, they do ask to non disclose, I am sure they are still making money. How much are they marked up? I bought my set in 2008 so I have not got a very long life on my original purchase. Thank you for your suggestions. I might see if I can get a longer warrenty on the repair or ask that I can buy an extended warrenty as I cannot afford to put out alot of money for a new TV. |
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Bronze Member Username: Homebrewer66Post Number: 20 Registered: Jan-10 | Well I lost my case with Sony in Iowa today. Never got to argue the case the lawyer had a motion to dismiss because of the statute of limitations. I am sure Sony was counting on that since they never gave me better offers after they got served. I guess no more Sony products in my house. That PS3 that my friends were trying to get me to buy so I could play games. New TV's, Stereo, Movies, and music. I hope all of you will tell your Friends and family to boycott Sony as well. Good luck with all of your cases. I wish you well. |
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New member Username: AkimboOH Post Number: 3 Registered: Mar-10 | So sorry to hear that Pale Ale. Was the statute of limitations an Iowa thing? It's a foregone conclusion that I will never buy another Sony anything. I used to buy Sony everything. I hope their short sited calculation on cheating their customers puts them out of business. |
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New member Username: Wedge1Post Number: 4 Registered: Apr-10 | You can still bring attention to the issues. Try talking to CNet and posting on Facebook. Newspaper ads. Craigslist postings. Speak to managers at stores like Frys, Best Buy, and Wal-Mart, and explain to them the situation and to consider it before they support Sony products like there new 3D tvs which may also be defective and obviously will not be supported if they are such. They may have to face large numbers of claims on their warranty programs if Sony repeats this debacle. |
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Bronze Member Username: Homebrewer66Post Number: 21 Registered: Jan-10 | The statute is the Warranty of Merchantability. That is 5 years in Iowa. If you have one of these TV's get moving to court or settle. I have a name of a good Class action lawyer in town that I will be contacting. Too bad the lady that won the case against Microsoft in Iowa is running for governor. |
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New member Username: AkimboOH Post Number: 4 Registered: Mar-10 | Ah. In Ohio (as far as I can tell -- the code is long) it doesn't mention a specific time frame, just a "reasonable time after the consumer discovers or should have discovered..." which is sufficiently vague for just about any argument. Great lawyer speak. |
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Silver Member Username: SlinkePost Number: 159 Registered: May-07 | Pale Ale, sorry to hear about your statute of limitations problem. It is a gray area that everybody should know about. I have been informing people about it, but I decided to add the following summary info to my web site: ...See these sites (1 and 2) for examples of listings of statutes of limitations for each state. Most states allow 3-6 years from the "breach". The numbers in these lists are not necessarily accurate (they may not even agree with each other and/or may be outdated). In some states, the statutes of limitations vary depending on whether your case is based on a breach of the express warranty (Sony's written warranty) or breach of an implied warranty. Other states do not list separate statutes of limitations for warranty breaches at all, and, in those cases, statutes of limitations for breach of a written contract may (or may not) apply. There is also a question of when the statute of limitations begins running due to the actual breach. For express warranties, the breach would typically be considered to have occurred when the company refuses to repair or replace the product free of charge, despite the fact that it is still under an express warranty. For breach of an implied warranty, most states likely consider the breach to have occurred on the date of purchase, because the latent defect existed at that time. Other states may consider the breach to have occurred when you reasonably should have discovered the defect (e.g., when you first saw a discoloration). In most cases, though, if you had one or more repairs done already, each of which you presumed would fix your TV, the statute of limitations clock would reset to the date of the last repair. So, if you have an issue that is still covered by the express warranty, you have a great case. If you have an issue covered by an implied warranty, you have the best case if you file your lawsuit within the typically 3-6 year period from purchase or the last repair (depending on your state). |
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Bronze Member Username: NasamanPost Number: 13 Registered: Feb-10 | Of course laws are complicated things which is why lawyers need to be licensed in the state in which they practice. From his post, it appears that Pale Ale went up against a licensed, practicing attorney with little more than an internet search and interpertation of law from someone who claims to be not qualified to give this type of advice. It's unfortunate that people are going into court with what they believe is sound research and advice when in fact, their entire startegy is laid out in forums and blogs for defense attorney's to read in advance. Think of it this way...it's like a high school football team going up against an NFL team with a playbook written by a guy who likes to watch football and posts the playbook on the web. I believe Steve has clear documentation of the wins which people like to talk about. His own, in CA where attorney's are not allowed, AGN in CA where he was awarded $650, one in NY, one in MI (again, attorney's not allowed). The last win being January 20th. It would be interesting to see what happened in the other cases similar to Pale Ale. It will also be interesting to see if there are any cases coming up over the short term future and how successful (and truthful) they will be. Hopefully Steve will document that. |
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Silver Member Username: SlinkePost Number: 160 Registered: May-07 | Hey, everybody, let's welcome back Sony's serial customer taunter, Brian May (or whatever his real name is). ;-) His goal is to put a chilling effect on customers getting fair compensation for their defective Sony TVs. Perhaps "Brian" is one of Sony's engineers who designed the defective liquid crystal optical blocks and feels defensive about the quality of his work. Or, perhaps he was on the optical block assembly team that allowed assembly in contaminating environments. Or, perhaps he is one of Sony's first-line customer support representatives who tell unsuspecting customers that there are no known problems with their TVs. Or, perhaps he is associated with Sony's legal department and is involved in arguing to customers that, even with the discolorations, the TVs still meet Sony's legal requirements for quality and are not defective in any way. So, Brian, your new role here as the truth squad is a bit ironic. If you provide me with sufficient background information and documentation from Sony on any court cases or any other information that challenges information I have on my web site, I will add/change it. You can keep singing the praises of the legal team for getting some customer's cases thrown out due to statute of limitations, lack of paid expert witnesses, etc., but the merits of the case favor the customers. They just want what is fair and know the risks. Giving customers as little as possible in compensation may benefit Sony's bottom line in the short-term, but at what long-term cost? |
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Bronze Member Username: Conedreill1027Post Number: 12 Registered: Nov-09 | Brian does not get it. Maybe people are taking a stand against a company they believed in who totally let them down. Win or lose at least they are trying to do something. Bringing this into the light is greater satisfaction than money or TV's. Exposing Sony for their low tatics, horrible customer service, and ignorant employees may be enough for some I bet the Judge and anyone in the court will thing twice before buying a Sony product again. My question is why is Sony spending it's money on lawyers and expert witnesses rather than fixing this problem and concentrating on satisfying their customes. What a waste of Sony's time and money. Paying to lose their once loyal customers. Is this the best they can do? Yep it's a David and Goliath fight but it's all good Sony looks like crap win or lose. Shame on them and you Brian. |
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New member Username: Wedge1Post Number: 5 Registered: Apr-10 | There is a special place in Hell for garbage like you Brian May. I'll see you there. |
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