Blu Ray or HD DVD
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Bronze Member Username: 007bPost Number: 34 Registered: Oct-07 | Taking bets on who will win the format war. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3576 Registered: Jul-04 | Neither, they will both be around for the foreseeable future. |
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Bronze Member Username: 007bPost Number: 35 Registered: Oct-07 | Agreed. Do you think all major studios will eventually join the slowly growing dual release (Blu Ray and HD DVD) movement? |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3580 Registered: Jul-04 | Yes, that's exactly what I think. Blu-Ray sales may be higher here, discs not players, HD-DVD players have sold more, but in Europe HD-DVD disc sales are higher than Blu-Ray. That may be because of the lawsuit against Sony and Blu-Ray there. |
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Bronze Member Username: 007bPost Number: 36 Registered: Oct-07 | David, what do you know about the quality of the newer Samsung Blu Ray players? I know Samsung generally has a reputation for poor quality and very low reliability. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3582 Registered: Jul-04 | I don't know, I don't have anything to do with anything Samsuck. The older players got terrible reviews everywhere, poor picture quality. |
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Bronze Member Username: 007bPost Number: 37 Registered: Oct-07 | Agreed. However, seems as though some of their newer flat panels and Blu Ray players have received high ratings. Wonder about the reliability though. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3583 Registered: Jul-04 | I'm not a very big believer in ratings myself. I'll admit some of their TVs do look good, but their reliability has always been crap at best. |
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Bronze Member Username: 007bPost Number: 39 Registered: Oct-07 | I consider ratings to be a starting point but not the exclusive basis for evaluating audio/video gear. Nothing better than hands-on experience. I'm curious as to whether Samsung has done anything on the quality front. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3584 Registered: Jul-04 | You can always check Consumer Reports for breakdown records. They seem to be somewhat reliable on the subject. They have them at the library near me. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 237 Registered: Nov-06 | Samsung has made improvements in their displays. The value buy for a good display lies with Panasonic for plasmas right now. Top shelf stuff comes from Pioneer and Fujitsu but their is a premium and you have to judge whether the money makes sense. Hitachi stays just a step behind the front runners but makes good plasmas--they just evolve a bit more slowly, but , for instance, if Pioneer cant make it in the end with their plasmas Hitachi will gain market share. On the Hi Def player side- Blu Ray technically in the ends has the potentially better technology but they are behind HD-DVD in bringing full featured players to market, With HD-DVD players by Toshiba going for 98 dollars later this month and with some of the upscaling abaility out there, blu ray could easily become irrelevant overtime. For those who like Blu Ray and have some more money to spend, the just announced Panasonic Player looks like the go to player for now. Not a surpirse as Panasonic is an excellent efficient company. |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 1765 Registered: Oct-06 | Blu-ray is already wining 2:1 is the score on the King's scale |
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New member Username: VampitMi U.S.A. Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-07 | I love My Blue Ray} |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 238 Registered: Nov-06 | Actually given the low attachment rate for Blu Ray players sold and the higher overhead, Blu Ray is losing. Its not a big deal as whatever happens happens but Blu Ray is in a lot of trouble. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3593 Registered: Jul-04 | Blu-Ray sells more discs in the U.S., but HD-DVD sells more players in the U.S., and more discs and players both in Europe, where Sony and Blu-Ray have a lawsuit against them. Either way it's a niche market that's never going to replace SD-DVD. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 240 Registered: Nov-06 | Correct on the Blu Ray side--HD-DVD players and media are now selling at SD-DVD prcies, so HD-DVD is really competing against SD-DVD in the long run. I agree that Blu Ray is lookin a bit like Laser Disc and SACD at this point....a niche market. |
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New member Username: FunkmeisterPost Number: 3 Registered: Nov-07 | The Panasonic player is absolutely outstanding. Does not upconvert as well as the Oppo Digital 981 HD but still does an excellent job. |
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New member Username: FunkmeisterPost Number: 5 Registered: Nov-07 | I'm betting on Blu Ray once the dust settles. Most of the major studios support this format but if they have any economic sense they will release on both formats. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 243 Registered: Nov-06 | Well since you bought a blu ray player I would hope that you are betting on Blu Ray. Today Howard Stringer, CEO of Sony, gave an interview which is on msnbc.com. Better read it. IN one year, we went from " A bLu Ray Victory is inevitable" to " Its a deadlock and I wish we agreed to go on one format at the beginning". TOSH sold 90,000 A2s in 3 days about a week ago. Gotaa say, it isnt gonna be close by this time next year. Most folks just dont have the extra bucks to buy an HD- format when basically the othert one of equal quality is much less expensive. Studio support is even when looking at AFI Top 100 titles, with HD-DVD having a slight edge. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3600 Registered: Jul-04 | All that has to happen is for more movie studios to go HD-DVD, which will eventually happen, and it's sayonara Blu-Ray. This all reminds me of the early days of DVD when some studios, Fox, Paramount, Disney wouldn't release DVDs in 4x3, only widescreen, that didn't last very long until they realized they could sell more discs if they were released in both formats. The same thing will happen with HD-DVD, when the movie studios realize they are losing disc sales, they'll start releasing on HD-DVD as well as Blu-Ray. |
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Bronze Member Username: FunkmeisterPost Number: 17 Registered: Nov-07 | Marc, I don't recall ever saying I bought either player. |
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New member Username: Y2heppSydney, Nsw Australia Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-07 | Help please. I currently have a xbox360 and was considering buying the hddvd add on at $244.00 with a movie thrown in. My xbox does not have a hdmi input so it runs on a s video cable. The add on is a usb cable running from the player to the x box itself. Will i lose pic quality this way or am i better trading in the 360 with my 6 games ($440.00 trade in) and spending $260.00 extra for a ps3 with Blue-ray.I currently have a 42" Panasonic plasma tv. Any help or advice would be appreciated. |
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New member Username: Y2heppSydney, Nsw Australia Post Number: 2 Registered: Nov-07 | Help please. I currently have a xbox360 and was considering buying the hddvd add on at $244.00 with a movie thrown in. My xbox does not have a hdmi input so it runs on a s video cable. The add on is a usb cable running from the player to the x box itself. Will i lose pic quality this way or am i better trading in the 360 with my 6 games ($440.00 trade in) and spending $260.00 extra for a ps3 with Blue-ray.I currently have a 42" Panasonic plasma tv. Any help or advice would be appreciated. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3606 Registered: Jul-04 | Why bother with the add on when you can get a standalone HD-DVD player for the same price or less these days? The A2 sells for $100 if you can still find one. You'll be able to get an A3 for that $250 or less in a week on black Friday when the Christmas shopping season officially starts. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 245 Registered: Nov-06 | I'm with David on this one. |
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New member Username: Y2heppSydney, Nsw Australia Post Number: 3 Registered: Nov-07 | In Australia the stand alones at present are around the 600.00 dollar mark. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3619 Registered: Jul-04 | You can get the A3 from Amazon right now for $200 with 10 free DVDs and free shipping. $600, ouch that hurts. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 246 Registered: Nov-06 | The Australian Dollar and the US dollar are diffrent currencies with different exchange rates. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3620 Registered: Jul-04 | Yes, but about $1.11 Austrailian to $1 American, that's still far more than what they sell for here. |
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New member Username: Y2heppSydney, Nsw Australia Post Number: 4 Registered: Nov-07 | Had a look in todays paper and they have a Panasonic for $699.00. So with the prices still high here would the xbox add on be worth getting? Picked up a games mag here and they reckon the ps3 blue-ray is better than some of the stand alones out at present. It's very hard to make a decision really. I might wait for pioneer to bring out a recorder with hdmi inputs etc. |
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Bronze Member Username: FunkmeisterPost Number: 30 Registered: Nov-07 | PS3 has received significant if not universal acclaim. No one can say who will win the Blu-ray HD DVD war. If you read the forums, the opinions are split. However, it is interesting that all but two major motion picture studios have endorsed Blu-ray (all but Paramount and Universal). I expect common sense and capitalism to kick in and we will see dual releases. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 247 Registered: Nov-06 | It actually depends on which PS3 they sell in Australia. The stripped down version just reached 399, 299 with the special Best Buy Gift card deal this week starting friday. PS3 has not received universal aclaim FYI. You can start with a game controller for a remote control as the first issue, a complete lack of interactivity, a somewhat noisy fan, and no ethernet software updating capabilities at this time. AS far as studios, when you include dual format studiosand HD-DVD exclusive studios, you get over 50% of the AFI top 100 films for 2006 and looks like 2007. Paramounts catalog is mega deep. HD-DVD is competing against SD-DVD due to its lower price points. Blu Ray is fighting for a niche market. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 433 Registered: Feb-07 | Going back to the original poster's question, I recently bought a Blu-ray player, and returned it within a week. I instead bought a HD-DVD player and I am much happier with it. The issues I had with the Blu-ray was that there were certain (newer) Blu-ray discs it refused to play and it consistently froze up while watching SD-DVDs. In all fairness, this may just apply my particular player or even the particular model, so this is not indicative of Blu-ray being a lousy platform. At both my local video rental stores (Rogers and Block Buster) there is an equal amount of Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD titles to rent. And at my local big electronics store there are an equal number of titles for both formats. To me it seems like neither one is "winning". Could it be they will continue to continue to co-exist as separate platforms much like PS3 vs. Xbox in the video console wars? |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 258 Registered: Nov-06 | Sony is losing a ton of money. The Sony USA President guys last speech about this wasnt a very positive one for Blu Ray. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 434 Registered: Feb-07 | If Blu-ray wasn't being driven by Sony it might have half a chance of succeeding. |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 184 Registered: May-05 | I do not own either yet, so my opinion is un-biased. I believe that whichever format is the most affordable to the consumer will win. Right now that has to be HD-DVD. There are many more affordable HD-DVD players, and the movies are on average cheaper than Blu-Ray. Also, NBC teamed up with Universal Studios and has released many of it's HD TV shows on HD-DVD. That in itself is a huge victory for HD-DVD. People that buy season 1 of Heros for example, will likely want season 2 when it becomes available. And if those people already have HD-DVD players, it gives incentive to keep producing movies and shows in HD-DVD. I view Blu-Ray at the Betamax of the 2000's. Sony failed with their proprietary format back then, and I believe they will fail again. Maybe I am wrong, and if so, I will eat crow. But personally, I will be purchasing an HD-DVD player by month's end. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 207 Registered: Jul-06 | As it stands right now, the movie selection is much greater for Blu-Ray owners. So if movie selection is any indication........Blu-Ray is winning!! Heck, all you have to do is activate the HD/BR feature on your netflix account and scan through the myriad of past/present/future movie releases to see how many more title options are available to BR owners. Both of the new technologies are buggy at this point. Whichever you do choose to buy, be prepared to keep up to date on Firmware updates, because you'll be doing a lot of updating if you want your player to perform it's very best  Lets face it: Both technologies are still in their infancy. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 275 Registered: Nov-06 | Actually Rush, your information is wrong on all counts. Looking at the American Film Festival top 100 titles, greater than 50% are HD-DVD aligned studios. furthermore, Blu ray only titles in the US are released on HD-DVD in Europe. Americans are being duped basically by blu ray with this false thing about blu ray only titles. Further, Blu Ray is behind HD-DVD with rgards to player functionality and features. HD-DVD has interactivity; blu ray does not. HD-DVD has audio standards on their players and disks; bl;u ray does not. Hd-DVD players have ethernet connectivity as well as great upscaling; most blu ray players don't. And HD-DVD is a helluva a lot cheaper. I dunno what the future will bring, but right now, Blu Ray and HD-DVD are in two different places. It aint even close. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 208 Registered: Jul-06 | As long as you're happy, that's all that matters. I think it's funny how some people get so defensive about others choices. LOL....just look at the above. In case you haven't noticed, both formats will be around for a long time. They are like Ham and eggs and compliment each other. If you don't own one of each(or a dual format player)....you're missing out. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 277 Registered: Nov-06 | Hi Rush- Sorry if you mistake my post as anything but informative- Reading your post however, I do note you aren't actually providing any information about much of anything. Hvae a great christmas. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 278 Registered: Nov-06 | Actually Rush, your information is wrong on all counts. Looking at the American Film Festival top 100 titles, greater than 50% are HD-DVD aligned studios. furthermore, Blu ray only titles in the US are released on HD-DVD in Europe. Americans are being duped basically by blu ray with this false thing about blu ray only titles. Further, Blu Ray is behind HD-DVD with rgards to player functionality and features. HD-DVD has interactivity; blu ray does not. HD-DVD has audio standards on their players and disks; bl;u ray does not. Hd-DVD players have ethernet connectivity as well as great upscaling; most blu ray players don't. And HD-DVD is a helluva a lot cheaper. I dunno what the future will bring, but right now, Blu Ray and HD-DVD are in two different places. It aint even close. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 210 Registered: Jul-06 | I speak from personal experience. You talk as if you're a paid shill for HD-DVD? I only chose BR to be my "first player" and I based that decision on current new release movie selection in the USA. When I say new release, I'm NOT talking about the re-release of OLD movies. I'm talking about new movies just coming out of theaters over the past year. What I found was an obvious advantage for BR as it relates to weekly new releases. With that said, I plan to buy a HD-DVD player too very soon!!! Unlike you, I'm not attacking another format. Anyone who doesn't own both players is missing out!! As for problems with BR, I think you can chalk the majority of that discussion up to user error because my experience with BR is flawless operation. Just by reading several forums, you'll find 10,000's of posts detailing how people can't get the most simple of components to operate correctly. If you go over to certain larger forums, you'll find owner threads 1,000's of posts long detailing problems with both formats. Both formats have come a long way over the past 18monts, and it is to be expected of any new technology that is still in it's infancy. PS By making attacks, it hurts your credibility. As cheap as players are these days, why not own both? |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 279 Registered: Nov-06 | Rush Rush Rush I like back and forth info exchanges but the drivel you are posting is simply false. What you are interpreting as " attacks" is true information and widely known and experienced. Why don't you show up at CES and I'll review it firsthand for you with any expert from any company you want? Actually Rush, your information is wrong on all counts. Looking at the American Film Festival top 100 titles, greater than 50% are HD-DVD aligned studios. furthermore, Blu ray only titles in the US are released on HD-DVD in Europe. Americans are being duped basically by blu ray with this false thing about blu ray only titles. Further, Blu Ray is behind HD-DVD with rgards to player functionality and features. HD-DVD has interactivity; blu ray does not. HD-DVD has audio standards on their players and disks; bl;u ray does not. Hd-DVD players have ethernet connectivity as well as great upscaling; most blu ray players don't. And HD-DVD is a helluva a lot cheaper. I dunno what the future will bring, but right now, Blu Ray and HD-DVD are in two different places. It aint even close. Finally, your posting style is identical to paid blu ray folks at avsforum who are attempting to somehow cover up some of Blu Rays problems and attempt some sort of equal footing debate. It all sounds good but doesnt hold water. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 212 Registered: Jul-06 | Firstly, you keep referring to this "top 100" list over and over, and I'm talking about Blu-ray having a better selection of new releases. Any "top 100" surely contains a lot of old movies, so it's irrelevant and does nothing to validate your point. If it's a festival list, it's probably a joke anyway. For a few laughs, why don't you post the top 100 so we can see how many GOOD NEW RELEASES are actually on the list? Many of them are guaranteed to be so irrelevant that few people except for the 'Indy' community cared enough about them to watch the vast majority of them. Secondly, how many of the general public do you think are hackers willing to order non region 1 discs to hack from over seas? How is this such a great thing? |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 280 Registered: Nov-06 | Anyway, HD-DVD will win the " format war" because the players are less expensive as are the DVDs themselves. Also, the players do more. Finally, "blu Ray" only titles are released on HD-DVD in Europe as well. Blu Ray is basically duping Americans into supporting an overly priced limited distribution format not ready for prime time. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 213 Registered: Jul-06 | Anyway, HD-DVD will win the " format war" because the players are less expensive as are the DVDs themselves. -------------------- So you're the expert huh? How could you not know that BR discs are cheaper? ANYONE who owns either a BR or HD player knows that!!!! You obviously no expert, nor do you even own a player. This is my last response to the above poster because I'm obviously responding to someone who doesn't have the facts. If the above poster doesn't even know the most basic facts like disc price, then what's the point in carrying this any further? Regards Have a merry Christmas!!  |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 283 Registered: Nov-06 | Anyway, HD-DVD will win the " format war" because the players are less expensive as are the DVDs themselves. Also, the players do more. Finally, "blu Ray" only titles are released on HD-DVD in Europe as well. Blu Ray is basically duping Americans into supporting an overly priced limited distribution format not ready for prime time. |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 186 Registered: May-05 | Well, I just purchased a Toshiba HD-DVD player from Costco for 179.99. I get 7 movies (2 in the box and 5 via rebate), plus it came with an HDMI cable! Not to mention Costco's great return policy. I am very happy with the player and the movies look great. One of the reasons I chose HD-DVD is because there are alot of TV series available. Heros season 1 and Star trek just to name a couple of them. Most stores I have been in seem to have a better selection of HD-DVD's. I was in Walmart yesterday and there was at least 7 HD-DVD's to 1 Blu ray. Maybe other stores are different, but that's what I have observed. I stumbled on an interesting article that states Warner will be deciding which side to join based off of movie sales over the holidays. That will tip the scales in someones favor. Regardless of what happens, I do not regret buying an HD player. The price was right and it plays regular DVD's great as well. Here's the link to the article http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071211-blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-battle-heats-up- as-christmas-approaches.html |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 288 Registered: Nov-06 | I read the link. I have aread alot about Warners upcoming supposed decision. The way I read it overall objectiviely believe it or not is that Warner is trying to find a political way to go Hd-DVD only. It simply costs more to get movies out on Blu Ray at this time and the process is slower than getting a movie out on HD-DVD. A lot of this has to do with avilabale writing and coding tools for software and some of it has to do with distribution challenges for Blu Ray with regards to factory locations and usable disk production rates off of the lines. Warner MIGHT make an announcement and might not. If they do it wouldn't make sense that they would side with Blu ray as a Blu Ray only studio, so if they announce anything ( 50:50 nothing changes at all), it would be with HD-DVD and thats the general thinking I keep reading about. We will see shortly. If Walmart really is stocking 7:1 Hd-DVDs to Blu Ray ( I ahvent heard or seen this until now) then I think its fiarly obviousl which way sales numbers will go as far as Hi Def disks. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3675 Registered: Jul-04 | I don't know about HD-DVD selling more players anymore. I was in BB yesterday for about an hour, I saw about 5 people leave with Sony BR players and one person exchange an HD player for a Sony BR player, I didn't see anyone leave with an HD player. Sony is very good at hype, if they can get player sales up, they are only slightly more money these days, they may actually win. I don't know how they did it, but people think Sony products are better than everything else, it's not true in most cases, but the public believes it is. A little competition is actually good for consumers, it will keep prices down and features, firmware updates, etc. up. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 214 Registered: Jul-06 | Most articles I find concerning the format war are eerily similar. This is just one of many articles that say pretty much the same thing. "Prediction: Blu-ray blows away HD DVD" http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/features/film/e3i3b664324ba4 ea5c03e0924ea906b3ecd?imw=Y Even though I think BR will rise as the eventuall victor, I still want a HD-DVD player too! I purchased a Toshiba A3 earlier this week to accompany my BR player. I like the Toshiba and will attempt to compare/contrast with my BR experience in another thread. Even to the casual observer, there are signs that don't look very good for HD-DVD. For example, when the two formats were launched it was Sony-vs-Toshiba. Why is it that several manufacturers decided to invest XXX-millions to jump on board with BR, but not HD-DVD? It's as if none of the other manufacturers want anything to do with the HD-DVD technology or else they'd start making HD-DVD players too!! Is there something I am missing? It makes you wonder, doesn't it? If Toshiba wants to win this war, they're going to need the help of other manufacturers to ensure that HD-DVD becomes the dominant format!! BR player manufactures now include Daewoo Denon Funai JVC LG Loewe Lite-On Mitsubishi Panasonic Philips Pioneer Samsung Sharp Sony HD-DVD players= Toshiba which is hardly a fair fight :/ Most major studios have an agreement with Blu-ray. 20th Century Fox Disney/BV Lionsgate Metro Goldwyn Mayer New Line Cinema Paramount Sony Warner Bros Granted, some of the studios support both formats, but BR has more exclusive contracts than HD-DVD. The only major studios that I am aware of (off the top of my head) that do not support BR is Universal Studios (a biggie) and Weinstein. I personally believe both formats will be with us in the foreseeable future(5 years minimum), and anyone who doesn't own one of each is clearly missing out in the NOW. As cheap as players have become, why not buy both? Why worry about which studio is making what? Buy both and you can buy/rent whatever you want without concerning yourself with studio contracts! To rent HD-DVDs, you may need to switch from Blockbuster to Netflix because many Blockbusters have stopped carrying HD-DVDs.(another red flag) |
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Bronze Member Username: FunkmeisterPost Number: 36 Registered: Nov-07 | Marc is guessing at best. No one knows for certain. I'm not even sure he is correct about the number of titles. If you look at the Blu-ray and HD DVD sites (or even Amazon for that matter), my rough count indicates more titles are available on Blu-ray. Stands to reason since 6 out of 8 major motion picture studios endorse the format. Marc's bias is showing and clouding his reason. |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 187 Registered: May-05 | I know that Best Buy currently offers 399 movies/shows on HD-DVD and 457 on Blu-ray. Pretty even really with the difference accounting for mostly Disney movies to give Blu-ray a slight advantage. It's tough to say which will end up the winner in the long run, but for me HD-DVD was preferred due to many titles that are only available on HD-DVD. If I had young children, then I probably would have bought a Blu-ray player or maybe both. Once a quality Blu-ray player is available for under 200 dollars, then I may consider one. I have heard of many problems with the Samsung players that sell for around 279.00. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 292 Registered: Nov-06 | Okie Dokie. Mr. Bias here!!! Hehe. Amazon has a sales rank data area for Blu Ray vs DVD. Now its just Amazon not the whole world for sure. But if you look at TOP 100 Hi Def DVD sales trends, HD-DVD is selling more or tying in sales with Blu Ray on most days. Its a sea change from earlier this year. I don't see HD-DVD in any trouble at all. That situation is improving, not declining. HD-DVD only has to survive. Blu Ray, becuase of its higher production costs, has to absolutely win. The head of Sony in the US, Howard Shapiro, in a still searchable statement, has already said they can't win. His direct statement is that its a stalemate and that there should only be one format. Thats quite a different commentary from Sony than " Blu Ray Victory is Ineveitable"-- the lead front page block lettering at CES in the recent past. As far as Warner, the scuttlebutt is that they are begrudgingly showing up at Blu Ray meetings, but are leaning towards HD-DVD exclusivity. There isn't any real chance of them becoming Blu Ray only. Thats the situation on the ground. I have no idea if they will actually go Hd-DVD only. Companies like Venturer will take the lowe end 99 dollar player fr HD-DVD, Toshiba will stay n the middle and companies like Onkyo will take the HD-DVD Hi End stuff using the Reon and Realta video processing. Looking at titles available as far as studios and time, its gonna be a 50:50 split a things stand, with Blu Ray announcing sooner for releases and HD-DVD announcing fairly close to release dates. Word. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 293 Registered: Nov-06 | Also, that little list up there on Blu ray supporters isn't correct at all. Paramount, Dreamworks, and Universal are all HD-DVD only at this time. Paramount was format neutral awhile back but isnt anymore. Their catalog alone is a huge chunk of past, current, and future titles. Steven Spielberg is getting ready to finally allow one releasse on HD-DVD as an FYI. Also, as far as players, like I said, there are multiple manufacturers for players for HD-DVD, and the audio and video standards are set for disks and players. With Blu Ray changing to BD-J codec next year so they can get some interactive features like HD-DVD already has, most if not all current Blu Ray players will be technically obsolete. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 217 Registered: Jul-06 | I think the members of this forum are intelligent enough to recognize and endless stream of bad information when they see it. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 218 Registered: Jul-06 | Because certain posters continue the dissemination of bad information, I thought it was time to share a little info based in fact. http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom121607/index.php Market share: Disc Sales Sales figures for the week ending 12/9: Blu-Ray: 76% HD-DVD:24% Due to Christmas sales taking BR players below $300, HD-DVD market share has taken a noticable hit. Year to date: Blu-ray: 65% HD-DVD: 35% Since inception: Blu-ray 62% HD-DVD 38% I'm sure everyone can see an obvious trend, and it doesn't look good for HD-DVD. Keep in mind this is coming from someone who owns both HD-DVD and BR players so I have no personal invested interest. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3677 Registered: Jul-04 | Sherman is obviously biased to HD-DVD. Right or wrong, he will never give up arguing about it. I'm biased against Sony myself. But people think their products are better and if they can get a Sony player for slightly more than another brand, they will buy Sony. If the price of Sony BR players continues to decline as fast as it's been going, I see them as the eventual winner, if there ever is one. There never was and never will be a winner between -R and +R discs, this may be the same way. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 219 Registered: Jul-06 | He is wrong to such a large extent about most everything he writes that I suspect the vast majority of his info comes from unreliable sources. I wonder how many more times he'll refer to the American Film Festival "TOP 100" list that doesn't even exist. It's possible that he makes up much of what he types as he goes along. Europe releases all BR titles on HD-DVD, did you hear that no less than 5 times? What that has to do with the new-release selection in the USA.....I don't know, but if the above is indeed true(highly doubtful), it speaks volumes considering that BR now holds a comfortable (3:1) sales margin over HD-DVD in Europe. In Japan, BR has surpassed a 90% market share!! As of december, it rose to 96%. http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/sony/blu+ray-conference--kicking-@ss-putting-people-to-sleep-295150.php You'll need to replace the @ with an 'a' to read the source. There are multitudes of other various sources that confirm the above. Virtually everything the above poster writes can easily be picked apart, but it isn't worth the effort. His credibility has now been well established as it relates to the above discussion. With all that said, I believe both formats will be around for the foreseeable future which is why so many people own both formats. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 220 Registered: Jul-06 | Help please. I currently have a xbox360 and was considering buying the hddvd add on at $244.00 with a movie thrown in. My xbox does not have a hdmi input so it runs on a s video cable. The add on is a usb cable running from the player to the x box itself. Will i lose pic quality this way ==================================== S-VHS cannot carry a HD signal to your TV. Does your xbox have a component output? |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 294 Registered: Nov-06 | Sorry if I am rubbing some folks the wrong way -- I am not wrong on the information however. The AFI top 100 list can be seen on blockbuster.com/ Netflix.com or anywhere you google. Most of the movies by a slim majority are HD-DVD exclusives largely due to Paramounts catalog. Blu rays players face early obsolescence if and when the BD-J codec starts being used for interactive features, which is reported to be in June 2008. Isn't it a good thing for people to know this before they buy into something 6 months sooner? It isnt at all clear that current Blu Ray players will be able to play that code at all. AS as far as credibility, all I can say is I am up on my stuff, and CES every year in Vegas is quite useful in gaining knowledge and seeing everything, just like CEDIA, local HT and audio groups, owning some of the equipment, reading the mags and going back in forth in forums like this one. Pretty much what I do actually. Rush you simply post stuff that isnt at all true. Your blu ray only lists arent correct for studio or hardware, you dont know who even makes HD-DVD players, and your watching a substandard display and using speakers that can't reproduce audio accurately by definition. I simply do not understand how you can even assess anything. I mean, do you actually go out and test and see all of this stuff or talk to the technical folks and engineers that build and write for this stuff? Know as far as SOny, I like Sony just fine, own Sony products, and think some of their front projectors are the best around and would be my brand of choice for FP if I bought one. They are good. SO anyway, if ya cant take the heat, just get out of the game. Now as far as sales of HD-DVDs, Sony had a HUGE edge a year ago, and its dwindled to 50:50; when Europe and other HD-DVD dominat areas of the world are factored in, HD-DVD really is in quite the comfortable position. Sony is losing money rapidly ( articles in Wall Street Journal, their own President in the US has said Blu ray can't win. I mean; look at what happened to Fujitsu plasmas-- its a similar deal here-- money losses over time eventually doesnt work out. And if a truly dual format capable player came out below 450 or so, it would be a huge problem for Blu Ray. The good part of this is--- we can all see what happens as time moves forward, so we can come on back and see who is right and who is wrong just for fun. BY the way Rush- what display are you using-- your list says a Mitsubishi 65 inch. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 295 Registered: Nov-06 | Oh one last thing, Blu Ray players including PS3 are ahead of HD-DVD players by 6:1 in sales. Even if the disk sales figures Rush listed are correct, HD-DVD still has the much higher attachment rate, meaning more disks bought per player sold. And thats exactly what's happening. Walk into a Walmart and start counting. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 296 Registered: Nov-06 | On the Blu Ray released on HD-DVD issue, I never said all, I said supposed Blu Ray only titles are released on HD-DVD in Europe. First you have to ask why, and then realize we in the US are getting ripped off. You can order "Blu Ray " only titles in HD-DVD on the Amazon site in the UK as an example. There are other sites as well. Start with " Total Recall" as a sample HD-DVD that is supposedly "Blu Ray only and work from there. |
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Bronze Member Username: FunkmeisterPost Number: 37 Registered: Nov-07 | As I indicated, Marc wears his bias like an old pair of jeans. There may be better attire, but he sticks with what he knows, facts be damned. When the mild mannered Massey points this out, you can take it to the bank. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 298 Registered: Nov-06 | Here's a piece on how well Warner and Sony are getting along, and exactly some of the background that could easily lead Warner to go HD-DVD only; http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070208/162723.shtml And here is the 8-21-2007 announcement about Paramount and Dreamworks dropping Blu Ray ( obviously any sales data before this represents a totally different set of circumstances than after) http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=894034 Heres a link to a recent market force report: http://www.betanews.com/article/Kmart_Dumps_Bluray_Due_to_Price/1193854397 And here is Howard Stringer, CEO of Sony, talking about his opinions regarding the format war: Why is he saying these things? Its about shareholders and liabilities in my opinion; http://www.tvpredictions.com/stringer121107.htm Anyway, all of this stuff is straight talk from a variety of sources. The belief is that the division of hi def formats will go on for about 18 more months. I don't see Blu ray left standing in the end at all. Lower cost for what in the end will be same quality always wins. I'm sorry if this is upsetting for some. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 299 Registered: Nov-06 | This is interesting and really says it better than I can: JBach Dec 20, 2007 2:24 AM GMT As a content producer I find there are three issues that wipe out Blu-Ray: 1.) Almost all Blu-Ray players cannot reliably render the content of an authored Blu-Ray disc. Authored discs play most reliably only on the PS3. The profile describing the requirements to build a Blu-Ray player is STILL INCOMPLETE, which is part of this problem. Reliable playback of a Blu-Ray disc being restricted to a PS3 player is a major issue in the business world. ADVANTAGE HD-DVD. 2.)Blu-Ray advanced authoring requires a Java-based programming environment. HD-DVD authoring is much like creating a web page. Blu-Ray becomes a programmer project, HD-DVD remains more of a web designer prosumer project. ADVANTAGE HD-DVD. 3.)The effort to retrofit a replication plant to do Blu-Ray is VERY significant. HD-DVD replication can be accomplished on a much smaller scale. While this is a one-time factor, the ease and relatively low cost of HD-DVD retrofitting makes more economic sense. ADVANTAGE HD-DVD. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 301 Registered: Nov-06 | And here my freinds, is the link to updated to the minute real sales data for HD-DVD vs Blu Ray at Amazon.com. http://charts.highdefdigest.com/versus.aspx Basically, Hd-DVD has turned it around and absolutely trounced Blu Ray. Its not even remotely close. HD-DVD is clearly smoking Blu ray in disc sales over the Christmas season at Amazon. Considering the 2.3 million PS3s out there the data is even worse for Blu ray. Blu Ray should be outselling Hd-DVD by some margin, any margin, but at Amzon, it aint happenin. Aint happenin at Walmart, K-mart, or Sears either, three of the top 20 retail chains in the world. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 302 Registered: Nov-06 | Here is a give and take about sales of Blu ray and Hd- DVD that I found represented both sides points of view fairly succinctly: |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 303 Registered: Nov-06 | And now the finisher-- I am linking the page to which the dec 29th 12:12 PM poster linked. He is referring to this page, which can be zoomed in, as a way to attempt to question my credibility on stats and show the blu ray has more hi def disk sales. http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom121607/index.php Take a look at the lead article on that page first about consumers choosing HD-DVD over Blu ray. Then zoom to the data. You will note that this is videoscan/Nielsen data...brought to you by SONY HOME ENTERTAINMENT. It also specifically doesn't include a most internet retailing or Walmart sales by definition. At this pint its clear who has zippo credibility, trying to use Sony sponsored sales data to supposedly represent a competing formats sales data vs their own. What a joke! Amazon data is important because it shows what average consumers are doing who own Hi Def Players, not "fleet sales" data for freebies thrown in a box. Also, Warner is doing much better with their HD-DVD releases than their same title/movie BR releases. BR went from a 9:2 April 07 sales lead to losing December 2007 to HD-DVD in sales. At this point, hopefully objective folks can take a look at some of the links and draw their own conclusions. I am sure Warner is looking at the same thing. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 305 Registered: Nov-06 | Just turn to page 6 when you get to the above link to see what I am talking about. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3678 Registered: Jul-04 | I rest my case. |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 188 Registered: May-05 | Marc does make some good points. You can't discount everything he is saying. I remember when Sony tried to push Betamax and failed. Back then, Betamax had a technological advantage over VHS but it didn't matter to the average consumer. The same holds true for Blu-ray. From a technological standpoint, Blu-ray has the advantage of storing more data on a single layer. Does that mean it's better? No. Does that mean the picture is going to look better? No. HD-DVD can store more than enough information for a 1080P movie. One problem I see with Blu-ray is the cost of producing the discs. If you read about how they are made, you would understand why HD-DVD has such a huge advantage in this area. Sure costs will come down for Blu-ray, but they will also come down for HD-DVD. Just like I said in a previous post, the winner will be who has the lowest price. I guarantee that. It will be interesting to see what the next year brings! |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 221 Registered: Jul-06 | Big news today from both USA Today, Reuters, and by various news outlets: http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSN0432340820080 104 http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/2008-01-04-warner-brothers-blu-ray_N.htm =================================================== "Warner Bros to back Blu-ray DVD format exclusively NEW YORK/LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Time Warner Inc's (TWX.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Warner Bros studio on Friday said it would exclusively release high-definition DVDs in Sony Corp's (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research) Blu-ray format, dealing a big blow to Toshiba Corp's (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research) rival HD DVD technology. Warner Bros, Hollywood's biggest seller of DVDs, representing about 18 to 20 percent of sales in the United States, was one of the few studios that backed both formats. All sides of the format war had agreed it was confusing to consumers and a stumbling block for a potential multibillion-dollar industry. Total DVD unit sales fell 4.5 percent in 2007, the first major year-over-year decline since the disc format debuted in 1997, according to Adams Media Research. Sales fell 4.8 percent to $15.7 billion. "The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger. We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers, and most importantly, consumers," Warner Bros Chairman and Chief Executive Barry Meyer said in a statement. News Corp's (NWSa.N: Quote, Profile, Research) 20th Century Fox, Walt Disney Co (DIS.N: Quote, Profile, Research), and Lionsgate (LGF.N: Quote, Profile, Research) are among studios backing the Blu-ray format. Viacom Inc's (VIAb.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Paramount studios and General Electric's (GE.N: Quote, Profile, Research) NBC Universal release movies in HD DVD format. Warner said it would continue releasing in the HD DVD format until the end of May, although those releases would follow the standard DVD and Blu-ray releases." ================================================ Bad news for HD-DVD.....this will effectively kill HD-DVD as a viable format. As 2007 MARKET sales figures indicate(market sales figures are comprised of more than tiny individual pieces.....like Amazon.com & K-mart), Blu-ray now enjoys a 65:35 and growing sales advantage over HD-DVD in the USA (coupled with a 3:1 margin in Europe/ 10:1 in Japan) If a giant like WB now goes exclusive with Blu-ray, that 65:35 advantage will quickly climb to 85%+ in the USA and HD-DVD will have effectively been squashed. The net effect is that HD-DVD retail shelf space will all but disappear and Paramount & Universal will be faced with tough decisions. In fact, they'll have 2 choices. 1. Support BR 2. Go down with the ship ...and 2 won't happen. Current Studio alliances will look like this: HD-DVD : Paramount/dreamworks, Universal Studios Blu-ray : Sony, Disney/Buena Vista, Fox/MGM, Warner, Lionsgate. If the above becomes reality, HD-DVD is all but dead. I think my 2 week old Toshiba HD-A3 player will be forced into duty as a paperweight  |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3687 Registered: Jul-04 | I wouldn't bet on that lowest price thing. If people can buy a Sony player for a little more than other brands, the people that are going to buy HD players, techies, people with money to burn, are going to buy the Sony. We're not talking about the average person here who wants to buy the cheapest thing possible. People that bought HDTVs and are ready to buy HD-DVD players and discs are willing to pay more for the Sony name. True or not, people think Sony products are better, that's just the way it is. I would rather see HD-DVD win, but if I were to bet on which would win, I'd definitely go with Blu-ray. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 307 Registered: Nov-06 | Hey all, Gettin ready to head to CES on Sunday and it is true that Warner has gone Blu Ray exclusive. I agree that without further change, Blu ray will eventually win, assuming they can continue to survive until Paramounts Hd-DVD agreement runs out. Their survivability has nothing to do with HD-DVD at this point, and is more a matter of public adoption in a way that can turn a profit, which has yet to occur. Sorry Hd-DVD fans, but looks like it aint gonna happen. |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 191 Registered: May-05 | The latest decision by Warner definitely tilts the scale in favor of Blu-ray. Too bad because I do not like Sony. Their proprietary products and DRM, along with their sh!tty customer service has really turned me away from them. Looks like I will be forced to buy a combo player if HD-DVD really doesn't make it as I already have some HD-DVD discs. I would not say that the fight is over yet. Paramount and Universal are very big as is Dreamworks. I guess we will see what happens. BTW I watched Transformers on HD-DVD today and I have to say I was awed by the amazing special effects, sound, and picture. This movie was one of the reasons I chose HD-DVD. I highly recommend it. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3689 Registered: Jul-04 | I've only had to deal with Sony customer service once, I usually avoid Sony products, I wouldn't say their CS is bad. I found them pretty easy to work with. They always answered the phone fast and they did all they could with the service clowns in my area to fix my TV. When they couldn't fix the TV, they offered me what I guess in their mind was an upgrade, a 37" RPTV to replace a 34" CRT, not an upgrade to me but the CRTs have been gone for months so that wasn't an option, or a buyout. It did take about month for me to get the buyout check, but I doubt any other company would have been faster. The one thing they wouldn't do is offer a discount on an LCD. I probably wouldn't have used it anyway, so no big deal. I went plasma as I watch in a dark room and plasma blows LCD away in a dark room. |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 2020 Registered: Feb-04 | Oh well, at least I have a nice $150 DVD player (TOS HD-A3). Could all this be over so quickly? If it is, I will say that BD is also doomed unless sub-$200 players are a reality very soon. The public always says it wants quality....until you ask them to pay for it. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3691 Registered: Jul-04 | It's not over yet, but it's getting easier to see the winner all the time. Sony BR players have drooped from $700-800 a few months ago to $300 now, $200 shouldn't be too far away. I'd like to see both of them survive would be the best case scenario, a little competition is always good. With Warner's massive film and TV series library, I've always considered them the best movie and series company, it's going to be very hard for HD-DVD to compete. Paramount does have a lot of good old films, but since Viacom got hold of them, their movies aren't what they used to be and the new movie library isn't anywhere near as impressive as their old titles. |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 193 Registered: May-05 | The A3 will also up-convert regular DVD's very well. I tried out an up-converting DVD on a Samsung player over a year ago and was not impressed but this Toshiba does a much better job. As for me, I will stay with my HD player for now. I still read about many people having problems with their Blu-ray players locking up and being really glitchy. I think they need to work the bugs out. By contrast, my Toshiba D3 has played flawlessly, plus it was only 179.00 so it was a real bargain to boot. Someone told me a Chinese company was starting to sell HD players for 99.00 at Walmart. I have not verified that yet but if so, it could help HD's cause. Until Blu-ray players come down to the price level of HD players, I have a hard time believing that Blu-ray will be successful. If Microsoft would have made the X-box with a integrated HD player from the start, things might be different right now. But with over 7 million PS3's already sold, that is a serious advantage for Blu-ray. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 222 Registered: Jul-06 | Yes, It's now going to unravel very quickly for HD-DVD. Now that the 800lb gorilla has gone Blu(WB), retail shelf space and HD-DVD sales will all but vanish during 2008. HD-DVD has only 2 studios left, and Paramount/Universal won't stick around for very long. The current 65:35 sales advantage Blu holds over HD-dvd will quickly grow to 85:15 or more very soon(thanks to WB going exclusive)......and it won't be long before the remaining 2 studios follow the sales/$$$$!! Luckily for me, my Toshiba A3 is only 2 weeks old, and I'm boxing it up to make a return  Yes marc, I guess you were right about everything you said. LOL HD is winning....yadda, yadda, yadda. I knew you'd eat crow eventually, but I didn't expect it would be this soon!! If I thought it would be over this fast, I wouldn't have bought the Toshiba. For those of you who don't want to buy sony....then don't do it!! Unlike toshiba/HD-DVD, more than a dozen manufactures make BLU players, so buy one from someone else!!! That little fact alone should have served as a glaring red flag warning of HD-DVDs demise because other manufactures wanted NO part of investing in the HD-DVD format. Before too long, even Toshiba will be making Blu-ray players. LOL HD-fanatic.... You still have a hard time believing Blu will be successful?? They've only been kicking HD's tail for the past 52 weeks!! BR passed HD in sales the week prior to Chrismas of 06, and they never looked back. With the recent news of WB now dumping HD-DVD, how much more will it take for the obvious to sink in? This is very good news for the consumer!! More manufacturers will be making machines, studio's will release more movies on disc, and Blu will be competing to take their product from a nitch early adopter base.....to the mainstream masses!! Look for 2 things to happen. 1. the movie selection will grow exponentially 2. prices will plummet even further This is a very exciting time  |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 223 Registered: Jul-06 | Paramount and Universal are very big as is Dreamworks. ------------------- You realize DW is a part of Paramount, right? IE...Like Disney & BV. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3693 Registered: Jul-04 | I'd have to disagree with the prices will plummet. Without competition the greedy Sony will keep prices as high as possible. The reason prices have dropped as fast as they have is competition, take that away and they won't drop like they have been. No competition is rarely a good thing. |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 194 Registered: May-05 | Rush, I am not saying that Blu-ray won't beat out HD-DVD but to be successful, prices are going to have to fall drastically before it really takes off and with the eventual demise of HD-DVD, there will be no competing format to drive the prices down just like David said. Rush, like you I purchased my Toshiba D3 player about 2 weeks ago, so I too could take it back. However, I just bought Heros season 1 and it's not available on Blu-ray. Neither is Transformers and some others that I would like to own. I am sure once Universal's and Paramounts contract runs out June 1st, many of these titles will eventually become available. I didn't realize that Dreamworks was part of Paramount. Thanks for the info. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 224 Registered: Jul-06 | Without competition the greedy Sony will keep prices as high as possible. ===================== You speak as if Sony is the only manufacturer who makes/sells blu-ray players. As of today, there are already 14 manufacturers selling players, and now that HD-DVD is all but dead, many more exit from the sidelines as spectators and begin building/selling players. Pretty soon, virtually every manufacturer of note will be building/selling BR-players which is when the real competition heats up. All we've seen thus far is a small handful of Blu-ray manufactures competing against Toshiba. You ain't seen nuthin' yet as it relates to heated competition!! Blu-ray intends to transition from a niche market into a mainstream format for the masses. The format war is exactly what's been holding back real progress!! The 2nd stage of the process is going head-to-head with the std-DVD!! The real competition is just beginning!! |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 226 Registered: Jul-06 | I'd also like make note of Best Buys generous return policy. I returned my Toshiba HD-A3 and cables today for a full refund. I had no packaging for the cables and basically handed the clerk a wad of cables, and they accepted them with no questions asked. Not wanting to return home completely empty handed, I bought the Resident Evil & Spiderman Boxed sets on Blu-ray.  |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3695 Registered: Jul-04 | Every manufacterer that makes those BR players and discs will have to pay royalties to Sony. Without any competition Sony can charge whatever they want for those royalties. No competition is never a good thing. The format war is what has brought prices down as fast as it has. Sony is a terrible company to be running the show. Look forward to copy protection that will make some discs non compatible with some players. HD-DVDs have no region coding, not true with BR discs. If Sony wins, and they will, the future of HD discs is bleak at best. It's a bad day, not a good one. |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 195 Registered: May-05 | Lets see what Toshiba has to say about Warners decision. I do not think they are ready to throw in the towel just yet. They have fought too long to just give up. I was in Costco's today and they had the Panasonic BD-30 for 449.00... way too much in my opinion. I did not see them flying off the shelves either. I believe that consumers will continue to wait things out until the dust settles. Standard DVD's still look and sound very good. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3698 Registered: Jul-04 | The fact is that HD-DVDs will probably never replace SD-DVDs. The average person is perfectly happy with SD-DVDs. I can get previously rented DVDs from the local Hollywood Video for $4-5 with a lifetime guarantee, HD-DVD can't compete with that. The worst movie/music company there is owning the rights to a DVD format is definitely a bad thing. Sony has altready released many DVDs that don't play on some players in their quest to make discs that can't be copied. They have yet to make a disc that can't be copied with free software available to anyone on the internet. The only thing they have done is screw the people that have players that won't play the discs. With Sony running the show you can expect more of the same and probably far worse behavior. |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 196 Registered: May-05 | "The fact is that HD-DVDs will probably never replace SD-DVDs. The average person is perfectly happy with SD-DVDs. " Agreed. That goes for BR as well which I am sure you meant. The biggest benefit of high definition can only be appreciated on a 50" and larger screens. I have a 57" so I am a benefactor, but the difference is really not night and day between SD-DVD. I have heard discussions about solid state hard-drives eventually replacing all disc formats, so if that is true, it doesn't matter who wins this format war. There will be many wars to come. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3703 Registered: Jul-04 | HD-DVD's demise looks like a done deal. Paramount is poised to go BR too. It seems there's an escape clause in their contract with HD-DVD that allows them to go BR if Warner does. It looks like you can kiss HD-DVD goodbye in the very near future. |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 197 Registered: May-05 | Yeah, I read the same thing this morning. Wow, its unbelievable at how quickly this is un-raveling for the HD camp. Oh well. At least that HD-DVD player will look nice sitting next to my Laserdisc player in the closet... or not!!  |
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Bronze Member Username: FunkmeisterPost Number: 38 Registered: Nov-07 | Yeah, Marc you called it. Warner went HD-DVD exclusively just like you said...NOT |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 227 Registered: Jul-06 | Here is a link: http://sg.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080108/tbs-paramount-dvd-7318940.html Nothing is official yet, but it doesn't take a genius to understand the obvious. Of course, marc still believes HD-DVD sales are really greater than Blu-ray as he so eloquently pointed out in his many posts in this thread. |
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Bronze Member Username: FunkmeisterPost Number: 39 Registered: Nov-07 | Rush, you are very generous when you call Marc's rantings and ravings eloquent. |
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Bronze Member Username: FunkmeisterPost Number: 40 Registered: Nov-07 | Anyway, HD-DVD will win the " format war" Marc Sherman |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2046 Registered: Oct-06 | Warner Brothers just signed an exclusive with blu-ray It is true HD-DVD sold more than blu-ray I agree It is not about who sold more or who sold first It is about which player on whose team and who will win at the end With the addition of WB (WB is an important addition) It is now official 3:1 score (Blu-ray) on the King's scale But the game is still going...it is not over yet One more punch by blu-ray and hd-dvd will be on life support |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3705 Registered: Jul-04 | That punch will come when Paramount goes BR, which will probably be soon. It's rumored that Universal is talking with the BR camp and they may switch when Paramount does. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 308 Registered: Nov-06 | Hey all, Just back from CES and spent a great deal of time talking with both HD-DVD and Blu Ray all manufacturers as well as folks from Disney, Blu Ray etc with regards to technical aspects of current and future players, as well as future and present capabilities on the media itself. For those that have an interest in up to date info, I'll probably start some new threads over the coming days. Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3708 Registered: Jul-04 | Universal has announced they are going to end their exclusivity deal with HD-DVD when their contract ends May 31. They haven't said wheather they will go BR only, but with the way things are going, there's a good chance they will. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 540 Registered: Feb-07 | Just a matter of time. Even though I own(ed) an HD-DVD player, I'm glad to see things pan out this way. The whole dual format thing was a pain in the @ss, and is bad for consumers, and the industry. The confusion is keeping your average consumer from embracing the new technology. At least if BD "wins" the war, we can move forward and (hopefully) start seeing prices drop. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 230 Registered: Jul-06 | This is incredible! Immediately after the WB announcement that it was dropping HD-DVD and immediately before HD-DVD canceled it's press conference at CES, top HD-DVD executives gathered to discuss the current state of developing events........and this meeting was captured on video and leaked on youtube!! As you can tell by the HD-DVD executives shown in this video, these are desperate days at the HD-DVD headquarters. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=friS4OOcdgQ Even THEY understand the war has been lost |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 198 Registered: May-05 | That's very funny. Wow, someone did an excellent job on that video. Speaking of HD-DVD, Costco is now selling the HD-D3 for 129.00. Even if HD-DVD eventually becomes obsolete, this is a very good deal considering how well the machine up-converts SD-DVD, plus the 7 free movies to boot. That is one heck of a bargain in my opinion |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3713 Registered: Jul-04 | The better deal is the HD-A30 for $170 from Amazon with free shipping and no tax. Full 1080p and the upconversion is supposedly considerably better than the A3. I'm waiting for prices to bottom out, they are dropping fast, then I think I'll invest in the A30. I don't care about HD-DVDs, I'm just in it for the upconversion. |
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Silver Member Username: MrsqCalifornia Post Number: 152 Registered: May-06 | i have the HD-A2 and im so happy with it, it upconverts greatfully, and great 1080i picture, hd dvd is the bomb, |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 313 Registered: Nov-06 | Just a comment. Current HD-DVD players have persistent memory capability which means they can stream content-- from my understanding HD-content. Looking at what Apple and Netflix are doing, this could be pretty major for those whose displays dont have native ethernet connections. Also, upscaling on the HD-DVD players are quite good, so as long as someone is going to watch SD-DVDs, the value as an upscaling player is still there. |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 200 Registered: May-05 | Quote from above: "Also, upscaling on the HD-DVD players are quite good, so as long as someone is going to watch SD-DVDs, the value as an upscaling player is still there." SD-DVD is going to be around for a long time to come because for most people it is good enough. I think eventually downloading, pay-per-view, and streaming will someday take over but not for several years. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 314 Registered: Nov-06 | Agree with that last post. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3719 Registered: Jul-04 | Upconverting players don't do anything that every HDTV does, so it's not like anyone really needs one to take advantage of their HDTV. I haven't used an HD player, but the 3 HDTVs I've had all upconverted as good or better than the upconverting recorder I've got. The TVs all have better zoom modes in 480i or 480p than they do in 720p or 1080i, so the zoom modes are better when not using an upconverting player. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 315 Registered: Nov-06 | The quality of upconversion is dependant on the video processing. There is quite a bit of variation among both players,displays, and receivers. The poorest upscaling generally, but not universally, occurs in displays. The Sony SXRD front projectors would be an exception of excellence. Sharp LCD upconversion to me is unacceptable. The upscaling done by anything with a realta or reon HQV passed video processing chip will be, by definition, excellent. The Tosh HD-DVD players do upconversion quite well, and often better than most displays. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 317 Registered: Nov-06 | http://www.betanews.com/article/Interview_Universal_EVP_Ken_Graffeo_says_HD_DVD_ is_here_to_stay/1200951636/2 |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3721 Registered: Jul-04 | That poor upconversion may have been true in the past, not today. A decent quality TV upconverts quite well these days and some do an excellent job. You have to remember that you generally, but not always, get what you pay for. If you buy a Sony or Panasonic TV for instance, expect very good upconversion. If you buy a cheap piece of crap, what did you expect? The point here is that no one actually needs an upconverting player to take advantage of an HDTV. They all upconvert and unless you've got a really bad TV, all will look better than SDTV. The recorder I've got is a Toshiba, the 3 HDTVs I've had all upconverted as good or better than the recorder. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 318 Registered: Nov-06 | I am not aware of any DVD recorders that upconvert well at all, and comparing DVD recorders, designed to record as a primary task, to DVD players, designed to upconvert as a primary focus, really isn't a valid comparison for the topic at hand. In order to look at this at home, a straightforward comparison can be done. Simply let the dipslay work alone at upconversion, and then let the DVD player do it. HD-DVD players do a super job at upconversion, and heir designed to do it with DVDs, as opposed to cable/sat. At CES, I looked at almost all of the displays that arent even out yet ( nothing from the past?), and in the high end audio area, you get to do all of these comparisons in the HOme Theater set ups, and talk it up with the folks doing the demos. There are some great upconverting A/V receivers too, but I like direct connect from player to displays. Most displays focus on ...well..displaying... many do not put the best upconversion technology in their displays. Finally displays are expensive, HD-DVD players are cheap. The cheapest way to get great upconversion for someone with an existing display is to get an HD-DVD player. |
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Bronze Member Username: FunkmeisterPost Number: 41 Registered: Nov-07 | Marc, you really think reasonable-minded people are going to listen to you after that HD-DVD debacle? Your credibility is shot, my friend. Better for you to jump threads and start over with some other naieve chumps. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3723 Registered: Jul-04 | Your CES crap is getting old. Who cares? You probably don't even own a DVD recorder, let alone an upconverter, so how can you know how well they upconvert? Any decent quality HDTV does a fine job of upconversion if coupled with a decent DVD player. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 320 Registered: Nov-06 | Actually the HD-DVD and Blu ray info is spot on, as far as technical stuff. I am very sorry for anyone who is upset. The cheapest way to provide excellent upconversion for standard DVDs is to get an HD-DVD player that does it well. There are other receivers and some displays that do upconversion well, such as the Sony Front Projector SXRD displays, some Denon receivers as wel as others too. However saying any display will upconvert just fine to HD resolution because some DVD recorders don't do it well really is misleading information for someone looking to really enjoy the best they can out of their standard DVD selection with an HD Display. AS I mentioned, anyone can try it at home and see for themselves. As far as CES, it's just one venue where you have a concentrated group of experts and euipment in one place to gain more knowledge and experience; but there are others such as local HT groups, audio groups, some mags of decent quality and of course plain old experience. I'd encourage any and all to get involved and promote quality audio and video and share knowledge. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 321 Registered: Nov-06 | Also, their are many reports of new HDTV owners who are dissatisfied with the quality of the picture rendered by their displays, including while watching DVDs from their standrad DVD players. Part of this problem is a lack of consistent quality of upconversion by displays, which don't always use the best video processing. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 322 Registered: Nov-06 | Here is a formal explanation of what is being discussed; In order for an HDTV to show the best possible picture quality, the video signal must be converted to the "native rate" of the display (the primary resolution that the screen supports). This can be performed either within the TV itself, or externally at the video source. Although it is true that every HDTV comes equipped with circuitry to perform this conversion, generally the set manufacturers use basic, unsophisticated scaling chips that do an inadequate job. The TV may enlarge the video to fill up the screen, but usually does not address many complicated issues in properly handling of the video signal to create the best possible picture quality. For optimal display result, it is best to feed the HDTV with a native HD video signal so that the TV does not have to do the zooming. How well the conversion from Standard Definition to High Definition is performed by the circuitry in the electronic devices will determine how good the video image looks on screen. In the case of DVD, which is still encoded at Standard Definition resolution, this is almost always best performed within the DVD player so that the display's own internal components won't have to struggle with these steps and can simply present exactly the signal provided to them. So anayway, like I said, video processing is important, and displays are not always get at this, even today. |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 202 Registered: May-05 | All I have to say is that standard DVD's look a little better when played through my Toshiba HD-D3 than through my Pioneer Elite DV-45A DVD player and that's saying alot since my Pioneer looks better than just about any standard player out there. I understand the skeptics out there because I was also skeptical until I saw the difference for myself. As a side note, I did try out a Samsung upconverting player about 18 months ago and the picture was nowhere near my Pioneer Elite, so technology has come along ways since then. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3724 Registered: Jul-04 | I can buy the fact that an HD player looks a little better. But it's not like everyone with an HDTV needs to have one. 2 of the 3 HDTVs I've had upconverted to near HD quality, the only limiting factor is the quality of the DVD itself. So, buying an already obselete player to get slightly better upconversion isn't something that everyone needs to do. Like I said before, you usually get what you pay for. If you bought a cheap TV, you can't expect it to upconvert as good as a TV that costs twice as much. Trying to say that everyone needs an HD player to get good upconversion just isn't true. A quality TV will do a good to great job on it's own. If the A30 gets down to $100, I'll buy one, if not, oh well, it's not something I really need, so no big deal. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 323 Registered: Nov-06 | Thats an interesting comment HD Fan is making, that the HD-D3 does better upscaling than a reasonably well regarded standard def DVD player. The Tosh XA2 has a top flight vid processing chip in it as far as upscaling ( as tested by the HQV standard) and so the gap would be even greater. David- I'm sorry if you are upset about something- scrolling back would yield a lot of good solid info in my posts, which are often linked as well as with specifc equipment examples. we are all here to try and provide good info for the public at large, and so please forgive me if I do point out potentially misleading statements, such as DVD recorder upscaling meaning much of anything. I respect that you are a technical repair person and see a lot of things and I am interested in what you have to say. Samsung had plasma problems early on with QA and green push, but have improved in leaps and bounds since then, along with their LCDs. Its a good company. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 324 Registered: Nov-06 | Hey David, I believe some of the DVD recorders you are referring to are from the Panasonic E series dating back to 2002-2004. Am I correct? Also, question- are you microsoft certified ( its a bit off topic but I am curious) |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3725 Registered: Jul-04 | I never refered to any Panasonic recorders, though I have used a few of them. I still have my E10, the first recorder released in the U.S. The thing is a tank that might last forever. Panasonic recorders don't have very impressive picture quality. The best I've seen is Toshiba and I've used a bunch of them over the last 7 years or so. I'm not Microsoft certified. Samsuck is not a good company. Their products are mediocre at best and unreliable. On the surface some of their products may seem to perform fairly well, but they all have flaws that will show when put to real tests. This is why reviews of their products are fair to poor. HD Fanatic, it's not surprising you weren't impressed with a Samsuck player. Their upconversion is well known to be subpar. |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 2074 Registered: Feb-04 | David, are there any CE mfr's that are OK in your opinion? |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 325 Registered: Nov-06 | I like Samsung now because they are putting money into Research and Development and come out with neat new things. A key example pertinent to this thread are the BD-5000 and their upcoming BD-5500. These are dual players that play both HD-DVD and Blu Ray and can handle all HD-DVD features as well as the 5500 being able to handle the Blu ray 1.1 specification. So I just disagree that they uniformly suck but I don't discount your experience in repair, as you have likely seen many failures across many brands. |
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Bronze Member Username: KevinrobPost Number: 25 Registered: Jan-08 | To help consumers choose between BR and HD DVD, you would think that both would drop the price of the players (especially HD DVD as they now appear to be playing catch-up). If you drop the price of the players, consumers are more likely to buy them and in turn, start buying DVDs in the same format. Rentals would also increase. This would help jump start the demand for more players and more DVDs. If demand increases, more of the studios might jump into the mix and offer their movies on BR or HD DVD. Its kind of like cell phones - you price them cheap, then recoup the money in monthly charges. Why are BR players till so expensive? |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2276 Registered: Oct-06 | Like I said in a different thread Blu-ray will ultimatly win It can take few more months Not too many people know that it's Philips and Sony behind Blu-ray Not just Sony If it wasn't for Philips HD-DVD may had a slam dunk by now Take it from me Blu-ray will sweep at the end I guarantee yo |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 231 Registered: Jul-06 | Poor, poor Marc. He still thinks HD-DVD is winning based on his many previous posts in this thread. LOL The second full week of disc sales are now in since the WB announcement, and it's 83:17 in favor of BD. (after a 85:15 week the first full week after the announcement) Uh oh....I think we can say good bye to 2007, and the 65:35 advantage BD had over HD-DVD. I don't expect BD to remain in the 80's each and every week, but it's safe to say the 65:35 split will become a distant memory.  http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa149.html#npd Blu-ray also snagged a 93% market share of player sales since the announcement. It wont be very long before both Paramount and Universal dump HD-DVD. Afterall, they're in the business of selling movies, and HD-DVD isn't selling. With that said, the studios will continue to deny they're making any changes right up to the day of the press conference when they make the official announcement. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 327 Registered: Nov-06 | Heres the article on the manipulated data referred to above. The player numbers did not include Amazon, other internet, and Walmart sales, all strengths for HD-DVD, but did include, and mostly, free Blu Ray players with the purchase of a display from Sony etc. http://www.electronichouse.com/article/free_blu_ray_players_boosted_numbers/C175 Blu Ray will definetly lead in disc sales, but Universal isn't going anywhere, as referenced in a recent interview with their president. AS it stands, its a 70:30 split of studios starting in May 2008. Since we all will have large collections of standard def DVDs, the real winner is internet streaming of content, which will likely be in full force in 3-4 years. In the meantime, HD-DVD players give a good inexpensive way for folks to get excellent upscaling, as well as enjoy the advanced features that HD-DVD offeres, but which Blu Ray doesnt have the technical capability to do yet. Blu Ray will likely be caught up technologically in about 2 years according to industry insiders. |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 2084 Registered: Feb-04 | Toshiba HD-A3s stacked at my local Sam's for 128.84. "Blu-ray will sweep at the end I guarantee yo" Brilliant King. That's like betting on Tiger half way through the final round at the Buick Invitational yesterday. It wont be very long before both Paramount and "Universal dump HD-DVD. Afterall, they're in the business of selling movies, and HD-DVD isn't selling. With that said, the studios will continue to deny they're making any changes right up to the day of the press conference when they make the official announcement." Trust me, if Sony and the rest of the pack don't get the price of their players down, those weasels in Hollywood will be dropping Blu-ray too. Wake me up when you Blu-ray fanboys are done gloating.  |
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Bronze Member Username: KevinrobPost Number: 26 Registered: Jan-08 | Sounds like good arguements for each side. As a consumer, I don't really care if BR or HD DVD wins. I just want to make sure that #1 the player I buy is not going to break the bank and then become obsolete in the short term, and #2 that I have a big selection of movies to choose from. With that said, it appears that the HD DVD player addresses concern #1, but BR addresses (or will address in the future) concern #2. |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 203 Registered: May-05 | At my local Costco, last week all the HD-D3 Toshiba HD-DVD players were sold out at 129.95. The Panasonic Blu-Ray players were still stacked full at 449.95. If Blu-Ray players are out-selling HD players, I am not seeing it here. I am no economist, but it's easy to figure out why the HD players were sold out and the Blu-Ray players are not moving. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 328 Registered: Nov-06 | Hi Kevin. You make a clear and excellent point. |
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Bronze Member Username: KevinrobPost Number: 27 Registered: Jan-08 | Thanks Marc. Competition is good for the market, but I think many "average" consumers will not buy either unit until there is a clear cut winner. We all know that these products will improve in quality and decrease in price as time goes on, so why buy now? Unless either side gives a bigger incentive than a few free rentals/movies with any purchase, etc, I don't see a reason to buy - especially a BR at $400 minimum. The other big factor is how many consumers have a 1080p TV to take full advantage of the technology? My guess is very few, but the number will continue to grow as TV prices come down as well. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 232 Registered: Jul-06 | HD fanatic, I'd expect that Costco trend to continue because I have noticed the exact same thing at many different retail stores. It seems that more and more stores are reducing the shelf space and failing to stock HD-players in recent months. And you see that as a good thing? This phenomenon is becoming quite the norm.... You know....you walk into a store and as soon as you walk inside, you come face to face with a very large and prominent blu-ray display that includes fully stocked product from several different manufacturers. HD-DVD players on the other hand, are becoming harder and harder to find. When you do find them, they're typically hidden in a dark/dank corner somewhere on a bottom shelf with 5 feet (often empty feet) of shelf space allocated to them. It won't be very long before the only place to purchase them is on Ebay. What you see as good news, is in reality....the beginning of the end for that format. And you can't see why BD-player sales are now dominating HD-DVD by such a large margin? The answer is right before your eyes!! |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 608 Registered: Feb-07 | I've noticed lately that both my local DVD rental places are stocking a lot more Blu-ray than HD-DVD. Even two months ago it was close to 50/50. |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 2090 Registered: Feb-04 | My local HHGregg is running the Sony BDP-S300 Blu-ray player for $288 Friday and Saturday. That's including 5 free BDs. This is still too much for a player with agonizingly slow load times, no support for the lossless Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio codecs, mediocre DVD upscaling and inferior 1080i deinterlacing. Still, you could call this price some kind of progress, even though I won't be one of the buyers lined up to buy it. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 611 Registered: Feb-07 | I'll be waiting too. I really want one, but I would hate to buy a player for 300 bones, and then next Christmas see a next-generation, much better player on sale for 200. |
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Bronze Member Username: KevinrobPost Number: 28 Registered: Jan-08 | John and David, I couldn't have said it better - if people on this forum (above avg. electronics consumers) are still on the fence about buying a BR player for $300, there are very few avg. consumers who will shell out that kind of money. John, you mentioned several issues with current BR units. How important are these features to the avg. consumer? I would think most people would buy the unit if they have a 1080p TV and are ready to begin buying and renting BR DVDs. |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 2092 Registered: Feb-04 | "I'll be waiting too. I really want one, but I would hate to buy a player for 300 bones, and then next Christmas see a next-generation, much better player on sale for 200." I agree. Even though one has to pull the trigger some time, I believe now's not quite the time. "John, you mentioned several issues with current BR units. How important are these features to the avg. consumer? I would think most people would buy the unit if they have a 1080p TV and are ready to begin buying and renting BR DVDs." Any issues with the Sony 300 can be solved with better players (the Pioneer comes to mind), but they're a lot more money too. I wonder how many Joe 6-packs out there who've hooked up an HDMI cable from their new $100 'upconverting' DVD player and think they've reached HD nirvana. Truth is, the PQ on these machines isn't all that bad. I believe that the jump in quality between DVD and Blu-ray (or HD DVD) is not as great as between VHS and DVD, and that it's going to take BD a lot longer to become mainstream -- if it ever does. I think it's still too early to predict that Blu-ray won't become another LaserDisc. Remember those? Blockbuster used to rent those too. |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 204 Registered: May-05 | Rush, Actually I was in my local Costco today and they replenished the stock of Toshiba HD-D3 players. They were on the end of the aisle for everyone to see and not in a dark corner. There was easily twice the amount of HD players compared to Blu-Ray. HD-DVD is far from being dead even though it's demise is likely in the end. It's funny to read the rant of the fan boys like yourself on this forum. One other thing I noticed was the lack of any Blu-Ray or HD-DVD movies in the store. When I was there 2 weeks ago, there were movies in both formats. I don't think the movies are selling that well in either format. |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 205 Registered: May-05 | Please excuse me for a couple of hours while I go watch Bourne Ultimatum on HD-DVD on my player that only cost me 129.00. Why don't the blu-ray fanboys go rent it and let me know how you like it. Oh... I just remembered... its only available on HD-DVD. Whoops! |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 233 Registered: Jul-06 | I bought a Toshiba HD-A3 too, so I'm all too familiar with the selection and performance offered by HD-DVD. Their Day/date release schedule is pretty pathetic too. 90% of what I watch are new movies, and HD-dvd offers very little content as far as new day/date releases go. (not to be confused with the re-release of old movies, which is basically all that HD-DVD has with WB abandoning them) I've only had one High Definition disc of any kind freeze on me me, and it was the free Bourne Identity disc that came with my A3. During the load process the player became helplessly locked, and I had to hold the power button for 5 seconds to force an emergency shutdown. (recommended only for emergencies in the owners manual) This forum is primarily filled with what seems to be very young enthusiasts who are just now beginning to explore the fun toys associated with the world of HT. They generally aren't financially stable enough become early adopters of a new technology, so it doesn't surprise me most are still watching low definition DVDs. Me? I've been around the block a few times and have been around long enough to have spent more than $500 on both VCR's and DVD players ago along the way. For me, spending a few hundred dollars for a new HT toy is about as large of a purchase decision as spending a weekends worth of beer money for the youngsters that seem to populate this forum. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 329 Registered: Nov-06 | here's the typical opinion of well financed knowledgable true HT-enthusiasts; This isn't my post but is typical: 01-30-08: Rugyboogie Get the HD DVD player and get a Blue ray player, they are cheap enough and in my opinion are better than a combo player. The Toshiba HD DVD XA2 is my personal favorite SD DVD upconverting player, better than any Blueray player that I have tried. You can see in my system threads that the Pioneer last year was acting up back in March 07. I have tried 4 different Blue ray players and they all have problems. The Toshiba is bullet proof and provides a stunning HD picture. A great video link is: www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumd... or audio go to www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumd... Happy reading and take care, Rugyboogie (System | Threads | Answers) The Toshiba is bullet proof and provides a stunning HD picture. A great video link is: www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumd... or audio go to www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumd... Happy reading and take care, Rugyboogie (System | Threads | Answers) As a side note I also agree that the Tosh XA2 has the best upconversion for standard def DVDs out there as it uses a very expensive and excellent video chip-- A Reon from Silicaon OPtix. The blu ay player malfunctioning problem is typical due to a lack of specs for manufacturers. The Sony PS3 however is reliable as Sony actually has the specs.} |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 206 Registered: May-05 | Rush, Not sure who you are referring to as "youngsters" on this forum. As for me, I also spent 600 dollars long ago on a 4 head Hi-Fi VCR with auto tracking. I also have a Pioneer Laserdisc 2080 player that is currently boxed up in a closet. I paid 600.00 for that too. I could afford any Blu-disc player on the market. However, I choose not to because the picture quality between Blu-ray and HD-DVD are indistinguishable. If my Toshiba ends up the way of my Laserdisc player, at least I can know that I spent much less for it than I did my old VCR and LD player. Plus, there is no guarantee that Blu-ray will be around for the future either. I am an enthusiast of all things that bring affordable home entertainment to the consumer, and when/if Blu-ray can provide the lower cost and robustness that HD-DVD offers, then myself and others will support it. By the way, The Bourne Ultimatum looked and sounded awesome in HD.  |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 207 Registered: May-05 | Marc, I could not get any of your links to open but I have been on the AVS forum also and can remember reading some threads that were similar to what you quoted above. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 330 Registered: Nov-06 | Sorry about the broken links. I was taking a quote from a post from another forum ( not avsforum actually) and something must be wrong in the copy and pasting of it. |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2301 Registered: Oct-06 | JOHN S "Brilliant King. That's like betting on Tiger half way through the final round at the Buick Invitational yesterday." Wake up my friend I have been writing about blu-ray since last year My posts are timed and dated May wanna start reading this: https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=2&post=1001176#POST1001176 But don't worry...I get that a lot Not only I said who will win I picked the winner, the year, and how to Read for yourself |
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Bronze Member Username: KevinrobPost Number: 31 Registered: Jan-08 | I think all the info and opinions here are great, but the reality is both BR and HD DVD may not become mainstream for years, if ever. It goes back to the cost of the unit and whether or not people have 1080p TVs to take advantage of the technology BR and HD DVD have to offer. I would say at least half of my friends still don't even have a HD TV. With that in mind, you are talking about a small subset of the population that will see the value in BR or HD DVD in the short term (or ever). |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3731 Registered: Jul-04 | King, you didn't pick the winner and year. You said September of last year in the other thread I was posting in, there was definitely no clear winner then. I agree with Kevin, I'll even go one further in saying that HD-DVDs will never take over DVD, unless DVD manufactering stops. Most people are perfectly happy with SD-DVDs. |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2302 Registered: Oct-06 | No David I did pick a winner and time but I wasn't betting back then cuz blu-ray wasn't even available may want to read it as many times as yo want "If I were to bet I'll favor the Super power BLU-RAY it will be fully available this year." I also specified what year "Time is just winding down a clear winner must be declared by 2008." All my posts were about blu-ray wins before it's even released It doesn't matter anyway I'm not in the prediction business I'm in the tech business And gave my prospective despite odds and early problems |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3732 Registered: Jul-04 | That's a newer post then when the winner could be predicted by anyone probably. Back in January or so of last year when we were going back and forth, you said September of last year. Obviously you've changed your tune since then . |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 331 Registered: Nov-06 | I am starting think the winner is going to be internet streamed hi def movies. True capability really isn't quite there yet, but the division of hi def formats now just means the delay of mainstream hi def video and audio DVD which gives time for infrastructure for Hi def streams to get put into place. Both Netflix and Apple already are streaming movies as part of downloads or subscription packages. |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2303 Registered: Oct-06 | Come on David I always predicted blu-ray I predicted blu-ray before it even comes out Here is another proof timed and dated: https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=2&post=1009235#POST1009235 - In todays manufacturing technology very easy to upgrade mastering equipment to HD while blu ray is totally different concept. But to account for future I have to support Sony and Philips after all they are the super power they do know what they are doing. - If HD does win for any strange reason don't count Sony/Philips totally out. They will continue to co-exist and drag consumer to great casualty. I do think they know their way to victory. Any delay of time will favor blu-ray based on all of that I give them 4:1 edge and another one: https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=2&post=1009235#POST1009235 "2007 Christmas you'll see some results " No winner is declared yet But I tell yo today loud and clear Blu-ray will sweep Just like the Giants will win 42nd Super Bowl Take it to the bank |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 334 Registered: Nov-06 | Here is an interesting link to a discussion about HDi vs BD-J as the real focus of the "format war" as opposed to the Blu Ray vs HD-DVD disc. I recoomend this for those wanting to keep up on relevant topics http://www.cepro.com/article/hd_dvd_vs_blu_ray_its_the_interactivity_stupid/D1/ |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 335 Registered: Nov-06 | Repotedly, Netflix is going to stock only Blu Ray very soon. I consider this development to be very significant, due to Netflix streaming DVD platform. |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2347 Registered: Oct-06 | Yep I heard that too last night That's another touch down score 2 more scores for the gatorade shower  |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 2115 Registered: Feb-04 | "Just like the Giants will win 42nd Super Bowl Take it to the bank" King Tapeman: brilliant crystal gazer or just another NY fanboy? I say the latter, but if he'd given the correct score, I would be bowing before the KING.  |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 115 Registered: Oct-07 | While it looks like BlueRay is currently ahead on points, the war is not yet over. I was cruising Audiogon yesterday and there was a (gasp from crowd) BetaMax deck on the block! Next thing is for 8-track to stage a comeback. BUT, what is the home PC going with? Will other forms of mass storage make a DVD burner Passe'? What happens of HT goes BlueRay and Computers, for whatever reason go HD? Everybodys screwed! I am not upgrading EITHER my confuser OR HT DVD player until a winner is declared. I want to see blood. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 234 Registered: Jul-06 | Not good news for the HD-DVD crowd. http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?sec_id=2&&articl e_ID=12100 HD DVD Format on Death Watch The format war has turned into a format death watch. Toshiba is widely expected to pull the plug on its HD DVD format sometime in the coming weeks, reliable industry sources say, after a rash of retail defections that followed Warner Home Videoi½s stunning announcement in early January that it would only support the rival Blu-ray Disc format after May. |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 208 Registered: May-05 | Looks like this discussion is finally over. May HD-DVD rest in peace... http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSL1643184420080216 I still have no plans to buy a Blu-ray player until prices come down. Even then, I may just stay with SD DVD because I hate to support Sony in any way. Yes I am bitter! |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 337 Registered: Nov-06 | HD-DVD is over. It is a shame that the more capable format will be no more. It's still important to call out Blu ray on their ongoing problems and shortcomings until they all get it right. When a player relaibly supports the 2.0 spec and is at about 200 dollars, that would be the time to consider picking up a blu ray player. IMMV. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 670 Registered: Feb-07 | Agreed Marc. |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 2403 Registered: Oct-06 | And the winner is Blu-ray details: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23204819/wid/11915829?GT1=10939 |
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Silver Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 117 Registered: Oct-07 | Now that BR has been declared the winner, I have a few questions:: 1. What will the MicroShaft X-Box360 folks do? Will MicroShaft change to BR? 2. How long until streaming content?....I want a movie tomorrow nite, so I download it during slacktime tonite when internet loading is least. 3. Can I skip BR altogether? There is LOTS of HD content on Small Dish. 4. How long until a BR player is available for say.....<200$? |
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Bronze Member Username: KevinrobPost Number: 32 Registered: Jan-08 | Now that HD DVD is on its way out, the price of the units is dropping fast. I'm thinking of buying one to use as a upconverting player. I need a new player anyways, any downside? Am I better off buying a higher upscaling player? I got an email from CompUSA that the A3 unit + 7 movies is going for $89. Not a bad deal. |
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Bronze Member Username: MthomPost Number: 61 Registered: May-05 | I was thinking the same thing. Picked up an HD-D3 from costco for $79 plus the 7 movies. The only downside I've come across is that I was not familiar with all the HDCP issues and I have a home video distribution system that works entirely off of component cables, and this thing won't upscale to component outputs (only HDMI because of the stupid HDCP). I wish there was a way around this for this player, but I haven't found one yet ... except making backup copies of the SD-DVD's. The HD DVD's will play fine over component. |
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New member Username: TheginkamosPost Number: 2 Registered: Feb-08 | Blu-ray all the way. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 685 Registered: Feb-07 | http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/02/25/microsoft-xbox.html |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3768 Registered: Jul-04 | Well, I finally broke down and bought an A2, supposedly a better player than the A3. After all the hype about how great these things upconcvert, I gotta say, I'm not impressed. My TV upconverts just as good, maybe even better. The Toshiba may be very slightly sharper, but that's the only thing I see that's any better. The overall picture isn't any better than just using my DVD player and the TV's upconversion. A waste of money. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 703 Registered: Feb-07 | My A3 (when I still had it) did a fantastic job of upconverting - one of the best I've seen. Sorry to hear you're not happy David. You gonna take it back? |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3769 Registered: Jul-04 | I bought it off the internet, with free shipping. If I send it back, they will probably charge for the original shipping plus what I'll have to spend to ship it back, not really worth it. I knew my TV does excellent job of upconversion, I didn't think it could be much better. Oh well, it was only $80. I spent $300 on my first DVD player in 1998, before I could even rent discs to play in it. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 706 Registered: Feb-07 | Ha! I paid the same for my first DVD player way back when. I still have it, and it still works. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3771 Registered: Jul-04 | Yea, mine still works too. I don't use it anymore though. It doesn't have any picture settings or zoom. The one I use now has better picture quality. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3773 Registered: Jul-04 | After playing around some more with different discs, the Toshiba definitely doesn't look any better than my SD DVD player. And I can't watch 4:3 material in 4:3 mode or just mode, what eliminates part of the stretching when watching 4:3 fullscreen, without cropping off a lot of picture. All the people that rave about the upconversion must have TVs that don't upconvert very good. |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 2178 Registered: Feb-04 | This should come as no surprise.... http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36428/113/ http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/12/217204&from=rss |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 716 Registered: Feb-07 | Not surprised, but I was hoping it would go the other way. I did notice that a couple of weeks ago the Pioneer BD player here in Canada (at Futureshop) dropped from 1k to 800. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3781 Registered: Jul-04 | Predictable, no competition is rarely a good thing. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 719 Registered: Feb-07 | The BD player manufacturers should now start competing amongst themselves to see who can sell the players. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3782 Registered: Jul-04 | Maybe after the dust settles. |
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Bronze Member Username: FunkmeisterPost Number: 45 Registered: Nov-07 | Just call me the prophet. Thank you, thank you very much. |
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Bronze Member Username: FunkmeisterPost Number: 46 Registered: Nov-07 | You have to move to the A35 to get decent upconversion of SD. A3 and A30 just don't cut it. Of course none of them perform as well as the Oppo Digital 981 and 983 (for upconversion of SD DVD). |
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