Dish pointing
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Bronze Member Username: ShadycovePost Number: 99 Registered: Sep-06 | so i'm on the roof of my garage pointing my dish almost straight south at110,there are some trees about 50 feet straight in front of me that are about 10 feet taller than the garage...my dish has an elevation angle of 30.5...the trees look as if they are gonna interfere if my dish is pointed right at the sat..however i understand that the sat signal comes into your dish at about a 15 degree angle from above,,is that correct? |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 12664 Registered: Jan-06 | When you are attempting to set up a satellite dish in a heavily wooded area or one with lots of man made obstructions, it helps to understand how the dish really works. One common misconception is that the dish points 'directly' at the satellite. This isn't the case for most dish designs. The apparent elevation of the dish is 15 or more degrees lower than it's actual receiving window. |
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Silver Member Username: RtapFL Post Number: 526 Registered: Jan-07 | it would easier to relocate the dish to a different part of your house. |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 12665 Registered: Jan-06 | Dish Pointing Tips To get a signal, the satellite dish must be pointed directly at the satellite, with NO obstructions between the two. This means NO trees and NO buildings. Take into consideration future tree growth, house remodeling or additions and new construction in your area. The satellite signal WILL NOT PASS through leaves or branches. Use our Satellite Look Angle calculator to determine the proper dish angles. Finding a Clear Line of Sight Get yourself a good compass, the best you can afford. Check the "Azimuth" and "Elevation" for your location Locate at least one site on your property that has a clear view to the satellite. Do you have at least one clear view to the satellite? Remember, no trees, leaves, or buildings can be between the dish and the satellite. If the answer is NO, your site may not be suitable for installing the satellite system. If the answer is MAYBE, you may want to contact a local digital satellite dealer for information about having a professional installer conduct a thorough site survey. If the answer is YES, your site should be suitable for installing the system. Go ahead to the next section of these instructions. LNBF Polarization Tilt (skew): Your LNB is marked with a label indicating the polarization tilt. Your local LNB polarity offset information varies by location. If you are in Houston, TX your LNB polarization is to be set at 0 degrees. But if you are on the California coast your LNB polarization could be as much as minus 30 degrees (clockwise rotation). And if you are in Maine your LNB polarization could be as much as plus 30 degree (counter-clockwise rotation). Peaking the dish and adjusting the polarity of the LNB will greatly improve your Signal Quality reading. When adjusting your LNB, it's not going to be turned more than 31 degrees (unless you live in Hawaii). Also be sure you don't leave that LNB plastic bracket loose. The LNB won't pick up the satellite if the bracket is loose, and it's slightly off. Finally, when thinking about degrees, remember that 30 degrees is about 5 minutes on a clock. Don't turn the LNB too much! Make certain that the pole or tri-mast assembly is vertically plumb. Check it with an Angle Finder or a level. If the pole or tri-mast is not plumb, your azimuth and elevation will not be accurate and will cause difficulty when pointing the dish. Also, if you are using a pole mount, make certain you pour a sufficient footing that will provide proper ballast. A pole that does not have sufficient ballast will lean over time, causing you to lose the signal. Your mount must be very strong and can not wobble. You must use at least 4 lag screws (correct size for your installation) in the base mount one on each corner. When pointing the satellite dish, allow 5-10 seconds between any movements of the dish. This allows the receiver to complete a signal scan, and lock indicating that you have located the signal. A reasonable signal strength is between 50 and 80. If it is lower than that range, you are either pointing into an object (e.g. trees, shrubs, or structures) or pointing above or below the satellite. Your antenna installation position must have a clear view angle of the satellite you are trying to receive. There are other satellites within 2 degrees to the left or right that may use the same frequency. This will provide a strong signal strength reading but no signal quality or signal lock. If you have a high strength reading but are not able to lock on, try adjusting the dish slightly to the right or left. When you are attempting to set up a satellite dish in a heavily wooded area or one with lots of man made obstructions, it helps to understand how the dish really works. One common misconception is that the dish points 'directly' at the satellite. This isn't the case for most dish designs. The apparent elevation of the dish is 15 or more degrees lower than it's actual receiving window. Have a look at this diagram.... it's easier to see it than it is to explain it..... If you complete the above steps properly, your chance of a successful installation is 99.9%. Be aware that when you have finished your mechanical installation and you are trying to aim your dish that the receiver waits about 3-5 seconds after it locks on to the correct signal before it registers on the receiver's signal meter on the antenna aiming screen on your TV. Move your dish in very small increments (2 deg East or West each instance until you find the signal then 1 deg to peak signal). If you move the dish too fast and do not pause between moves you might go thru the signal before the receiver can tell you that you are on the signal. If you use a signal meter you can hook it into the system right at the dish and it responds to the signal immediately making it much easier to aim your dish. You do not need any one else to help you if you use a meter at the dish. Compare Signal Strength and Quality Zero Strength and Zero Quality: If this is the symptom you are experiencing, then the receiver is currently not receiving the signal from the dish. Check all connections between your receiver and the dish. Make sure that they are all plugged in to the proper place and are tight. One of the most common connection problems is to have the cable coming from the dish plugged in to the connection marked "In from Antenna," which is incorrect. The cable coming from the dish needs to be plugged in to the connection marked "In from Dish, Digital In, or LNB IN" Also, the cables might have developed a short or might have gotten moisture in them, especially out at the dish. If this is a possibility, you may want to have an installer check the cables or take them to an installer yourself. 0-30 Strength and Zero Quality: If you are experiencing these levels of strength and quality, you are getting only noise signals. Make sure that there are no obstacles between the dish and satellite. 40-60 Strength and Zero Quality: With this level of strength and a lack of quality, it is very likely that the dish has moved since its initial installation or you are still off alignment. We recommend going through the Dish Installation pointing steps and finding the satellite signal again. This will likely take just a few minor adjustments of the dish since it should not have moved very much. Key causes for this problem include bolts not being tightened properly, heavy winds, or the dish being struck or bumped by something. Once the signal has been found again, make certain all bolts are tightened well. We also recommend that once you have everything tightened down and have your signal back, make a mark from the cap mount to the pole with paint or some other permanent substance. This will give you a reference point, should any future problems occur. You can also make a mark on the side of the cap mount where your elevation markings are imprinted. 40-60 Strength and 30-70 Quality: This level of strength and quality indicates that the dish needs to be fine-tuned to the satellite. You may have noticed that prior to getting the "Bad or No Signal" message your picture was occasionally blotchy and your audio may have been out of sync with the picture. These are all symptoms of the need to fine-tune the dish. Optimum signal quality is between 70 and 100. TIP: You can fine-tune your dish by going back to the signal strength screen. While the signal bar is running, have someone out at the dish. He will need to loosen the collar that holds the LNB. This is done by slightly loosening the two screws that hold the collar together. Once these screws are loose, slowly twist the LNB a fraction of an inch. After each movement allow 5 seconds for the receiver to register the change and update your quality reading. If the quality readings immediately begin to get lower while the adjustments are being made, then the LNB needs to be turned in the other direction. Once the LNB fine tuning is complete, tighten the two screws on the LNB collar. You may then complete the scan by pressing START. What is the easiest way to aim a dish?? ...copied -This is the most asked question, and the most common problem. I will tell you my technique, which I believe is the easiest. This is not the only way to aim a dish, but I find it the least confusing. The problem with FTA irds is that you will see signal and quality on all DBS satellites. 61.5, 82, 91, 110, 119, 148....all of these operate on the same frequency, so when you are aiming at one of them, and you find another, you will see a quality signal. Of course, if you are aimed at the wrong bird, all you will get is "scrambled or bad channel" or a bunch of "ghost channels" and duplicates. So, here is what I do to avoid confusing the birds... 1. Flash the ird with the newest flash. 2. Load a channel list with the sats you will be trying to get. I always do this because it helps with the aiming technique later. If you prefer scanning, after you find the birds, you can delete all your channels and scan away. BUT...load up a channel list in the beginning. 3. Set the default key just in case it doesn't set automatically. 4. Connect ONE LNB at a time. Do NOT use your switch yet. Run a cable directly from ONE LNB to your receiver. 5. In the menu, make sure all your diseqc settings are at OFF. 6. Now, pick the sat you are going to aim at. Connect this cable directly to the receiver, and tune to a channel on this sat. Example: trying to hit BEV 91?...tune to TSN. By doing this, the correct tp will be picked automatically. Again, no confusion! Some tps may not have anything on them, and so if you have your receiver set to a blank tp, then you will never find signal, even if you find the bird!! That's another reason why this method is easiest (I think). 7. Use a satfinder program to get your coordiates. This can be found in this section of these forums. 8. Go and move your dish SLOWLY. When a picture appears, then you know you have found the correct bird. If you hit a different DBS bird, then you will not get a picture....so no confusion. Once you get a picture, then use the receiver's signal meter to fine tune the signal. 9. Move onto the next sat. Connect it directly, and follow the above directions. Do one sat/LNB at a time until all the sats have been found. 10. Incorporate your switch, and adjust your diseqc settings in the menu accordingly. 11. Enjoy TV... |
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Bronze Member Username: ShadycovePost Number: 100 Registered: Sep-06 | yes i understand that but if the elevation angle is 30 degrees and the signal actually comes in at a 15 degree angle from above that...then to estimate the clearance of the signal,wouldn't i have to clear the trees on a 45 degree angle....so if i loosen the screws and point the dish at a 45,then isn't that the clearance that i would need?just of course to see if i'm gonna clear the trees then snug it back at 30 degrees |
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Silver Member Username: ShadycovePost Number: 101 Registered: Sep-06 | i have a dish for bell on my house roof but there is positively no clearance for 110 up there...so i'm trying to put a 110 dish on the garage roof..i can't tell if i'm gonna clear the trees just by looking ...so.if the signal comes down to the dish at a 15 degree angle (and apparently it does according to the dish pointing tips website that you were quoting lk)then a person should be able to tell if the signal would clear an obsticle by pointing the dish at an angle 15 degrees higher than the recommended elevation,no...or am i sorely mistaken? |
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Silver Member Username: ShadycovePost Number: 102 Registered: Sep-06 | c'mon lk...am i nutty or could i get a visual indication by doin it that way...and speaking of dish pointing have you seen this very cool site.... |
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Silver Member Username: RunnerguyPluto Post Number: 648 Registered: Sep-06 | Another "COOL" site  |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 12668 Registered: Jan-06 | Red..Don't tell me U live in Bradenton....hehehe |
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Gold Member Username: TapemanNew York City in-HD, NY Post Number: 1574 Registered: Oct-06 | I find this site as the most impressive satellite calculator. - Single or multiple satellites - Search by city or zip code - Search by Satellite name or orbit location - It calculates multiple skew - It calculates multiple elevation Very impressive This is the one guys Too bad I still use King's clock |
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Silver Member Username: ShadycovePost Number: 103 Registered: Sep-06 | lk..i'm up in saskatchewan livin on the shore of a very pretty lil lake almost totally surrounded by trees...but is my hypotheses correct...to just get a rough idea if the dish will be able to pick up the signal? |
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Gold Member Username: Donnie1973Post Number: 1091 Registered: May-06 | I live in the woods, my dish points DIRECTLY in to trees, approx 40'away. Im talkin 50' oak trees. I get signal in the 90's. It does go out when it rains, or cloudy but only for a sec. |
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Silver Member Username: ShadycovePost Number: 104 Registered: Sep-06 | ok cool glad to here it i'll give it a shot thanx |
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Silver Member Username: Tigger_woodsFlutopia Post Number: 144 Registered: Jun-07 | I live in the deep woods!!! The arm on your dish does not point at the satellite. You have more clearance then you think. I suspect you are doing something wrong as to why you can`t bring in 110. If you are bringing in Bell you should be able to get 110. Now I know its not the same direction or level...and it may be that there is a tree in the way. I am only saying from your description and my experience in the woods you are just not finding the sat...PROBABLY. Your thoughts on moving the elevation 15% to make up for the trees, is the main thing I am going on......THATS JUST DUMB Find out with compass roughly where the 110 is and then play around with the elevation.` move left and right very small area. |
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Gold Member Username: Crazy_greekPost Number: 1212 Registered: Jul-06 |  Angle is an angle. If a Satellite from a location is elevated at 30 degrees and you point your Dish 15 degrees higher would that miss the Bird by 15 degrees? Iam in the same position as dantetn and the Tiger. Iam like the mail man, Winter, rain or cloudy, I have no problem. For a mast on your roof, you can also try to install a ten (10) foot stick of 1.5" ID galvanized conduit to mount your Dish. BTW the Dish pointer website is the best I have seen yet.Thanks |
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Silver Member Username: ShadycovePost Number: 105 Registered: Sep-06 | hey guys...when i mentioned moving the elevation up 15 degrees it was only to get a better visual of where the signal was coming from not to try and catch a signal..sheesh...i think its gonna work.i'll try it tomorrow...the reason i thought i couldn't get signal is because the dish points directly into the bush,i didn't realize the signal actually came in at a 15 degree angle from above.that makes the odds of me catching it a lot better....my bell dish is already on a 6ft stick on the roof and pointing through the only small opening that there is in this wall of trees...i'm not as dumb as you might think but we are down in a hollow,right beside the waters edge and it is absolutely surrounded by trees...poplar,maple,hugh spruce and lodgepole pine all along the southern side of the property,at first glance it looks like there would be noway to get a signal |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 12674 Registered: Jan-06 | agree...great dish pointing site... |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 12675 Registered: Jan-06 | agree...great dish pointing site, TY... |
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Silver Member Username: ShadycovePost Number: 106 Registered: Sep-06 | i should give you my coordinates and you could check it out on google earth...the wind barely makes it through...thanx for all your comments and help tho i really appreciate it... |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 12676 Registered: Jan-06 | BTW...its really innovative the way they used public county property aerial photos to get the exact location of your house and antenna settings.. |
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Gold Member Username: Crazy_greekPost Number: 1214 Registered: Jul-06 | Hey, LK I didn't noticed that, in other words all they need is your Zip Code,, enter it on this Dish Pointer site,get the picture and the location of your neighborhood, send a man to look for your Dish, and call the man. Do you think this is possible? |
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Silver Member Username: RunnerguyPluto Post Number: 651 Registered: Sep-06 | Sorry BOR for the Spam post, That is a cool site!....Is there any reason why you just don't try setting your dish in this circumstance and see if it works? That might be a simple solutuon. |
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Silver Member Username: ShadycovePost Number: 107 Registered: Sep-06 | i'll be doin it tomorrow and i'll let you know if i can get it.like i been saying the trees are just thick out there and it doesn't look possible at first glance ...glad you like the dishpointer site...and i will be loading a channel list first like lk mentioned ,that is a very good idea...thanx |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 12681 Registered: Jan-06 | kavin...u can type in your address..nevermind the zip code..all I know is that alot of work went into that dishpointer site...I'd use it...its NOT illegal to own a FTA receiver.. |
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Gold Member Username: Crazy_greekPost Number: 1220 Registered: Jul-06 | I know,it's also NOT illegal to own a gun. |
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Silver Member Username: Saqeeb90Post Number: 104 Registered: Dec-06 | is there any software or some thing on reciver that tells you which angle is dish right now (i mean when u move the dish it tell u its at angle 140 etch then u move 2 degree again and tells u 138 etc... is there something like this .... free on sattelite reciever... |
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Silver Member Username: RunnerguyPluto Post Number: 652 Registered: Sep-06 | sada That is one reason they made Bird Dog. It tells you when your on the satellite and gives the satellite name. http://sadoun.com/Sat/Products/Accessories/Meters/Birdog-Satellite-signal-meter. htm use this along with something like dishpointer and you know exactly were you are pointed...but it's not free. |
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