does not matter which input there are dual they work for 2 recivers . each cable goes to each port 119#1 110#2 make theses confifuration in reciever. go to this site for your latest bin and read little there for youir ultra it's very helpful http://totalfta.com/
Actually that's wrong. Each side has different voltage. so if you use the right side on one LNB make sure you combine the same right side on the other LNB with your switch or you will run into problems. I'm too tired to dig in my things to get you the exact voltage, but take my word for it. Done plenty of these installations and learned the hard way.
Heres what i have now. I have my bracket with the 2 lnb's in it. the left lnb (119 which is in the dishes arm)is connected to the left input. the right lnb in the bracket beside 119's lnb is connected into the left input also.
(Like the first picture in the first message, but 110 is connected into the other(left)input)
Hey chinny If I understand you right the is Yes. What PR was telling you was not to mix the Voltage.On 119 If you use left side of the LNB, that use left side of 110 LNB. You can use either switch. Don't use splitters. Use DiSEqC Switches.
its not a splitter, its a DMS International 2 in 1 DiSEqC Switch. it looks like a splitter but it says "DiSEqC 2*1 Switch" 950-2150MHz. DiSEqC2.0.
Im using both left sides on the lnb. SAT1 on the switch is 119 and SAT2 is connected to 110.
Everything looks good to this point.
Theres only 1 problem now.
I have my dish pointed. In antenna setup, it is not finding echo7 (119). i scanned for the echo7 channels, but they never came up.
right now i only have 110 channels working. it might be because of which way the dish is pointed. BUT--- if i have both lnbs in a bracket for 119 and 110 how can 119 not be working if 110 is working?
disconnect the switch...run cable directly to receiver from 119 LNB, THEN do a scan....if still no channels, then bad LNB, cable, connectors, or alignment..
antenna/dish settings in receiver, should be: 119- disque port #1...110- port #2 freq-11250 type-standard 22-Off scan all
Post Number: 2122 Registered: Oct-05 Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 01:26 am:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually that's wrong. Each side has different voltage. so if you use the right side on one LNB make sure you combine the same right side on the other LNB with your switch or you will run into problems. I'm too tired to dig in my things to get you the exact voltage, but take my word for it. Done plenty of these installations and learned the hard way isn't it supposed to be dual lnb and dont matter what site of the same lnb to use .?}
RTAP THIS CONVERSATION IS LITTLE TOO BIG FOR YOU . I KNOW YOU DONT KNOW WHAT LNB MEANS AND WHAT CABLE MEANS . WHEN U GO AND READ READ READ AND SPEND LITTLE TIME LIKE A YEAR OR 2 THEN I WILL ANSWER YOUR IDITS COMMENTS .
RTAP HAHAHAHA YOU MADE LAUGH HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA . DARLING WELCOME TO THE FTA. U ARE MISSING LOT OF INFORMATION AND I HAVE NO INTENTION IN KEEPING THIS WITH YOU HHAAAAAAAA 50 POST HAAAAA LET'S DO THE MATH: 50X 20 NICK NAMES IT'S LITTLE CLOSE TO 1000 NAD THIS IS ONLY FOR THIS MOUNTH. NOT MENTIONING 4 YEARS IN FTA WORLD . THA'S ALL GOOD BYE NO MORE WASTE TIME WITH LITTLE SHIIIIIT LIKE U
Cartier - I have no idea what you are trying to ask, but the answer to chinny was that each side of a DUAL LNB operates on a different voltage. If you combine the LEFT input of one LNB with the RIGHT input of another LNB it will cause problems in the switching from sat to sat. The easiest way to solve this is as stated above. So again I ask - What is your question????
There are 2 different groups of KU band satellites, FSS (Fixed Satellite Service) and DBS (Direct Broadcast Satellite). DBS satellites are the type satellites used by DN, DTV, BEV, and VOOM, and the band is authorized for use in North America. They operate from 12200-12700 MHz, and their polarity is circular. FSS satellites are thought of as general purpose satellites and is the home of many different broadcast media and many different types of signals. The FSS satellites are placed worldwide around the globe. The frequency is 10700-12700 MHz and the polarity is linear. Here in NA we primarily use the portion of the band from 11700-12200 MHz. A few signals from satellites over the Atlantic can be found in the 11200-11700 MHz portion, but there are not very many.
Linear polarity satellites broadcast their signals with the waveform being sent from the antenna either in the vertical plane (oriented up-down) or the horizontal plane (oriented left-right). This allows twice the amount of channels to be transmitted by the satellite in the same amount of bandwidth, as the signals from the opposite polarity are attenuated enough so that they don't interfere with each other. Circular polarity satellites send their signal in a corkscrew pattern, and the polarity is determined by the direction of rotation of the signal, either right hand or left hand.
When the signal is reflected from the dish, it enters what is called a feedhorn. The feedhorn, or feed for short, focuses the received signal down a tuned tube, which is called a waveguide. We sometimes refer to the waveguide as the THROAT of the feedhorn. At the end of the waveguide is the entrance to the amplifier. The amp usually has 2 probes that is each oriented to correspond to the horizontal and vertical polarities, and is switched by the amplifier according to which polarity is needed. A circular feedhorn has a small device that transforms the circular signals to either horizontal or vertical signals for processing by the amp. The amplifier is generally called an LNA (low noise amplifier).
The amp does it's job and amplifies the very weak microwave signal, and then it's passed on to a device called a downconverter. A microwave signal has extremely high loss when trying to send it down a regular coax. After just a few feet there would not be much signal left because of this loss. Lower loss coax could be used, but it would be extremely expensive. The downconverter "converts" the signals to a much lower frequency so that relatively inexpensive coax can be used to get the signal from the dish to the receiver. Todays technology has allowed the combining of the LNA and downconverter into the same box. This is called an LNB, or Low Noise Block converter. And feeds are now being integrated with LNB's into a single assembly known as an LNBF.
C Band dishes work on basically the same principle above, except the feeds and dishes are MUCH bigger, and use a much lower frequency of 3400-4200 MHz. They can also be either linear or circular polarity.
You must have the proper LNBF for the type of satellite you want to receive. A DBS LNBF won't receive much of anything in the FSS band, and vice versa. 2 LNBF's are required to receive both bands. There are generally just 1 type of DBS LNBF, but there are 2 types of FSS LNBF's, standard and universal. A standard LNBF will cover a single portion of the FSS band, usually 11700-12200. It has a single local oscillator frequency, which is usually 10750 MHz. A universal LNBF is an offshoot of LNBF's that are mainly used in Europe, where they have a need to tune several sections of the KU FSS band with a single LNBF. They will tune 10700-12700 MHz. and they have 2 seperate local oscillators at 9750 and 10600 MHz, which will allow the LNBF to tune a large expanse of spectrum. The receiver uses a special signal to tell the LNBF which of the local oscillators it should use for the frequency it needs to tune. See this post for more information and my thoughts about universal LNBF's...
Some of this stuff might be a little difficult to understand, as it's a lot of information in a short space. As you learn about terms in satellite TV, maybe this will be a reference you can come back to and help you understand things a bit better.
The standard Lnb's set frequencies are: C-band LO 5150 MHz Ku-band/FTA LO 10750MHz circular DBS LO 11250MHz
A euro-'universal' LNB will have two LO's and may be configured using the default values stored in the receivers
A stacked LNB uses the standard frequencies for vertical/left-circular polarisation, then lowers the LO frequency (often by 575MHz or so) for the horizontal/right-circular transponders.
There is a growing number of people coming to the forums and reading about the added value of having an FTA KU band dish in addition to their DBS dishes. I am very happy that the FTA hobby is growing as people discover the benefits of having the capability. Also there is a growing number of people that, when ordering their FTA receiver, are going ahead and getting a package deal with a thirty-something inch dish and universal LNBF. They are learning the virtues of motorizing their dish, and some are picking up a Stab or SG2100. When these people get their newly acquired equipment they are anxious to play, and frankly I don't blame them a bit. I like to try to help people get the most out of their system with the fewest headaches. It gets difficult at times when people want to combine and compact their systems and be able to use one dish to perform on several bands. I've made many posts about the fact that sometimes DiSEqC switches just don't like to be too far away from the receiver. On a lot of the receivers coming out today, for some reason they sorta forget to include 0/12 volt switching as part of their feature set, so that switching mode can't be used. That leaves 22khz switches, but with a ton of people getting universal LNBF's, then it gets tough to use those switches. I just wanted to look at the trend of universal LNBF's and share my thoughts about these devices and ask...are they really worth it?
Our North American KU band satellites primarily uses two frequency bands. The FSS band is from 11700-12200 MHz, and uses linear polarization. The DBS band is from 12200-12700 MHz and uses circular polarization. Generally because of the polarization differences it's easier for most people to use two different LNBF's to tune these services. In Europe, Africa, and Asia, they have two lower bands of 10700-11200 and 11200-11700 MHz linear. They also share our 12200-12700 band, but it is linear where our DBS band is circular. Universal LNBF's were developed to be used in those locations where several different frequency bands using the same polarization are used. By having a device that worked like having two or three LNBF's in one, all frequencies could be tuned with one device and one dish. The equipment that we have come to know over the years as FTA equipment in this country is the equivalent to DTV or DN in other countries. They aren't stuck with having to obtain, lease, or buy equipment from their programmer, They just select the brand of receiver they desire or can afford, obtain a CAM and card from the programmer of their choice, and subscribe. The FTA type receivers we know today have been in use in other countries for many years. The universal LNBF is a mass produced item that has made it's way into the American market in abundance. It is a good performer, but it has it's drawbacks.
I won't get into oscillators and mixing and the sums and differences, but in order for the universal LNBF to be able to tune such a wide range of frequencies, it has to incorporate two local oscillators (LO). When the lower frequency set is needed it uses the lower frequency LO, and when the higher set is needed it uses the higher LO. There has to be an automated way for the receiver to tell the LNBF which LO it needs, so the uni LNBF uses a 22khz signal. If I remember correctly, when the receiver sends the 22khz signal the LNBF uses the higher LO, and when it doesn't it uses the lower LO. The receiver is usually preprogrammed with a "switch" frequency, so that when setting up the particular satellite, if "Universal" is selected as the LNB type, and a frequency above 11700 Mhz is selected, it turns on the 22khz signal so the LNBF will use the correct LO frequency, and if it's below 11700 Mhz, it turns the 22khz signal off. What this means is that the receiver is tying up it's 22khz system just to deal with the universal LNBF, and in order to use both frequency sets, you won't be able to use any kind of 22khz switch. With 0/12 volt switching not being included in receivers much anymore, that just leaves either DiSEqC switching or manual switching...two choices that can have their own drawbacks.
In North America the only place we see any real use of frequencies below 11700 are with a few satellites over the Atlantic, mainly PAS9 and a couple more. These satellites have just a few Spanish language channels, and the two Atlantic Bird satellites have a handful of Arabic language signals. Most people will never be able to even see the Atlantic Bird sats, with the exception of the far right coasters. But for most people, the advantage of having a universal LNBF is far outweighed by being able to use 22khz as a switching method. In the case of forum member Chance and his desire to mount a DBS LNBF beside his uni LNBF on a motorized dish, it would be easy to stick a 22khz switch after the motor to switch between his two LNBF's, but because his linear LNBF is universal and wanting it to be able to receive both bands, switching becomes more difficult. About the only alternative is to use a DiSEqC switch after the motor, with all the problems it can introduce.
Standard LNBF's are decently cheap, usually less than $20. The point I'm trying to make is for all the folks coming on board the FTA ship to think their systems through and decide if it's really worth it to give up a fairly reliable and valuable switching method just to get a universal LNBF that most people will never fully use anyway. Now for those people that might be after those few channels like CubaVision on PAS9 then by all means get them and use them. But I think the folks that are just now getting their feet wet in FTA satellite TV would be better served by not getting a universal LNBF, picking up a standard LNBF with a 10750 Mhz LO frequency, and using the 22khz system in their receiver to help them with their switching duties. For the noob it would help to make LNBF switching a lot easier.
Thanks goes to ACRadio -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why can?t I run 2 receivers from a single LNB dish?
A single LNB is designed to handle the control signal from one receiver only where a dual can handle the control signal from 2 receivers also The signals coming from satellites (applies to 110, 119, 148, 83, 91, 61.5, etc ) are polarized (Left-Hand-Circular - LHCP and Right-Hand-Circular- RHCP)...roughly a 50/50 split...half of the channels are LHCP, half of the channels are RHCP. Each individual LNB can go one way other the other, LHCP or RHCP, but not both at the same time. The polarization is selected by changing the voltage to the LNB, if ~18VDC is sent (from the receiver), then the LNB looks at the LHCP signals...if ~13VDC is sent then the LNB looks at the RHCP signals. With one receiver (IRD), when you change the channels, the receiver changes the voltage as appropriate. If you have two boxes talking to the same LNB, and one is trying to watch an RHCP signal and the other is trying to watch a LHCP signal, then the LNB is going to switch to LHCP (higher voltage wins). If you have a "DUAL LNB" there are actually two LNB'S under the cup, with two external connections for the RG/6 coax. Each receiver talks to its own LNB, commanding the LNB to switch according to the channel that each of the receivers is tuned to. If you have more than two receivers, then a multiswitch is necessary for the same reason mentioned above. To use a standard two-in, four-out multiswitch (a "2X4"), you MUST have a dual LNB...that's rule #1, and it's in concrete. The multiswitch is a group of switches, either mechanical (relays) or electronic (silicon...like a transistor). In a situation where some of the receivers are watching programming sent on a RHCP signal and others are watching programming sent on a LHCP signal, the multiswitch energizes the LNB'S such that one is "tuned" one way, and the other is set the opposite. The multiswitch then feeds the correctly polarized signal to the receiver (it knows who wants what because of the voltage level sent by the receiver). Within each block of polarized signals, there is a range of frequencies available to be selected...just like TV or radio...the signals are always there, you tune to the frequency within the block that you want to listen to. The multiswitch has sent the LHCP or RHCP block of frequencies, now the receiver can select the correct frequency within that block that's appropriate for the channel you want to watch. More-often-than-not, the multiswitch will keep one LNB at LHCP and one at RHCP for faster channel switching if it can. SO, again, splitting a signal from a single LNB doesn't work in a normal setup because the receiver presenting the higher voltage level will always win at the LNB. Many splitters all drop, divide, or block the voltage to the LNB and you only get half the channels available (Scan for "Only getting the ODD transponders" ..There?s a allot*tload of 'them, and most are from people trying to use splitters, or have bad cable (drops too much voltage, can't get to 18VDC), or crummy connectors, or flaky grounding blocks. Sometimes trying to use a splitter can smoke one or both receivers (depends on the splitter, and how it's hooked up). There are some splitters on the market that lead you to believe that they are for splitting one dish to two receivers...it isn?t so. Printing a satellite on the face of the splitter does not impart enough of the correct magic into the splitter to get it to work in this fashion (splitting dish to multiple receivers). Now...to (hopefully) cut off the few that'll try to correct me on that point: there are some special splitters that WILL split one LNB to two receivers BUT it's still a bad idea, you have to know EXACTLY what to buy, and know EXACTLY how to connect it...and it STILL a bad idea...Dual LNB'S are not that expensive, MULTISWITCHES are not that expensive. Do it right or get cable TV (IMHO). -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why am I no longer receiving my satellite signal? These are the most common reasons for losing signal: -Has the dish been moved? -Any tree growth? (branches or leaves) -Are you experiencing any damaging weather? (rain, hail or heavy winds, or Snow, or thunder storms,Ect) Check out Our products page under satellite Accessories for the Latest Dish Covers . -------------------------------------------------------------------------- UNDERSTAND DISH PRO STACKED TECHNOLOGY
DishPro LNBFs are a new technology that is only supported in the newest receivers from Dish Network (Models 301, 501, 508, and 721). DishPro LNBFs and switches allow for longer runs up to 200 feet from receivers to the dish. DishPro installations are easier as there are fewer cables to run from the dish to the switch(es) for more than 2 receivers as well as simpler installations if more than 4 satellite feeds are needed (especially important now that 721s and 921s need 2 satellite feeds per receiver). Quick lesson: all DBS providers have up to 32 frequencies to use per orbital slot. The Frequencies are opposite polarities either even or odd. Legacy LNBFs and switches can only transmit one polarity at a time down the feed cable to your receiver. Legacy switches and LNBFs use a voltage signal from your receiver to change the polarity of the LNBF it is connected to, 13 volts is odd, 18 volts is even. Since voltage will drop as the length of the cable gets longer, at some point the attenuation of the cable will drop the voltage from the receiver below 18 volts so that the LNBF can't switch to the even polarity even though the signal from the receiver is 18 volts the LNBF is only able to use the 13 volt or odd polarity. DishPro is different as it will stack or transmit both even and odd signals down the same wire, by shifting the frequencies up so both polarities can travel the same feed to the receiver or switch. Since this is the case the LNBF doesn't need the receiver voltage to switch back and forth. A switch is necessary to be able to connect one stacked 119? feed and one stacked 110? feed to each receiver. The only way a legacy receiver will work with this arrangement of LNBFs and Dish Pro switches is with a DishPro adapter that can down convert the stacked frequencies to the standard odd or even only frequencies. Each legacy receiver has to use this adapter which must be installed within 10 feet of the receiver. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- What is an LNB, or is it LNBF? LNB(F) stands for Low Noise Block downconverter with integrated (Feedhorn). Either acronym may be used in the small dish world. It is the final stage of the antenna, and the first stage of the receiver. It comes in single and dual units. A dual LNB is just like two singles in the same case. Each half is independant of the other. Inside is the detector and downconverter electronics, along with circuitry designed to switch the LNB from right hand circularly polarized to its opposite. Adjacent transponders on the satellite use opposite polaritization to prevent adjacent channel interferance. The widely used Twin and Quad each have 2 dual LNBs along with an integrated switch.
For those who care to know, a "block converter" is simply a device that converts a block of radio frequencies (in this case the 12.2-12.7GHz DBS satellite signals) to a different frequency (in this case 950-1450MHz) useable by the receiver. 12GHz signals wouldn't survive through 10 feet of RG-6, never mind 100! The lower frequencies are much easier to work with. To bore everyone further, LNB is not technically "short" for LNBF, since LNBs CAN come without feedhorns, like on most C-band (big) dishes, where the C-band (or Ku band or both) LNB bolts to the feedhorn on the dish. All DBS LNBs I've ever seen have the feedhorn built-in, so the "F" is essentially unnecessary, just like the "A" (all LNBs have amplifiers, yet we don't call them "LNABs"!) In the "old days" the low-noise amplifier and downconverters were separate units, so the amplifier was called an "LNA", which then plugged into the downconverter with a really thick chunk of short RG-11 cable, before feeding into the house on RG-59 (typically.) Eventually the LNA and converter merged into one unit, which back then was either called an LNB or LNC depending on whether you thought "Block converter" or "Converter" deserved an initial. LNB finally stuck. Satellite "old-timers" still often call LNBs LNAs, the same way our grandfathers still refer to refrigerators as "ice boxes."
Chinny: You said and I quote, "I have my dish pointed. In antenna setup, it is not finding echo7 (119). i scanned for the echo7 channels, but they never came up. " You are pointing to 101/110W. You need to swing your dish further West to point to 110/119W
very interesting article. should be saved in evryone file to know the concept of lnb and fta. PRFRMNJ i always tought it does not matter where u put the cable left or right . but now i think i figure it out why sometimes in some instalation switching from sat to sat there is a lost of signal . and i have to turn off /on the reciever to get the signal. hum it does make a sense to use one side for one reciever and the other side of all lnb's to the 2 nd reciever. i got you thanx.
Hey PR You say that on a Dual LNB that the Left is 18 Volts.Are all LNBs rated the same? The Left side of my LNB is rated from 15.5 Volts to 19 Volts and the Right is rated from 11.5 to 14 Volts. There is a differance of 1.5 volts between the high and low side of this LNB, so where could there be a problem? After all,the Receiver feeds the Voltage to the LNB.
Correction to chinny's question. DBS uses Left-Hand Circular Polorization for Even Transponders, Right-Hand Circular Polarization for Odd Transponders. As you Receiver is Scaning these Transponders it Simultaneous changes the Voltage sent to the LNB for the Left-Hand or Right-Hand Transponders.
Saying all that,as Cartier stated above, it does not make any differance what side of the LNB output you connect to.
