Straight 1080p signal vs. 1080i upconverted to 1080p
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New member Username: TolawyerToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 5 Registered: Feb-06 | Would there be a difference between the appearance on an HDTV of a 1080p straignt picture or a 1080i picture upconverted to 1080p. I have put a deposit on this years Sony SXRD (60 inch), and am now hesitating going through with the deal because of various issues, including the fact that the current year's SXRD models do not have inputs capable of 1080p. What the TV does is take a 1080i signal and upconverts it to 1080p. So really I'm wondering if there would be a real difference between the two pictures, and if so, should I wait for next years models?. I know my questions are kind of academic becuase there are no real 1080p signals to input available. However, I would like my TV to be "future friendly", if possible. Thanks for your answers. Tolawyer |
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Bronze Member Username: MccambleyBREEZY POINT, NY USA Post Number: 74 Registered: Jun-05 | This may be a situation where waiting is a good idea. All 1080P model are in ther first year, if your not cutting edge wait for at least the next model to come out before buying. They will be cheaper and better in many ways. |
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Anonymous | That's not what he asked. Here's the answer. The 1080i signal is interlaced meaning the odd lines and even lines are being weaved together. This scanning method takes less bandwidth to transmit the signal to viewers. The 1080P set will receive the 1080i signal and alter the scanning method to display all 1080 lines in every frame, which is called progressive. The 1080i is not "up-converted" to 1080P. When people talk about up-converting it means scaling. Scaling is not taking place. The set simply alters the same number of lines to a smoother scanning method. Unless you are going to buy a high end scaler like the DVDO i30 or the Faroudja DVP 1080 processor you will not have any 1080P signals to feed the set. Unless you are going to be an early adopter of HD DVD or Blu-ray, which has no real library and no real guarantee of a 1080P output, you won't have that for an input either. That's why most set makers haven't included the capability. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoBC Canada Post Number: 842 Registered: Oct-04 | It appears the PS3 has also dropped 1080p output from their proposed features. The first round of HD-DVD players will also only output 1080i/720p. You may be waiting a while, it's my opinion that 720p/1080i will be the resolution of choice for the next few years. |
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New member Username: TolawyerToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 7 Registered: Feb-06 | So then, what advantage would there be, if any, for me to purchase the 1080p TV at this point over a 1080i or 720p input-capable TV, bearing in mind the 1080p set that I'm thinking of buying would not be able to accept 1080p any 1080p signals other than over the air signals? |
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Bronze Member Username: CroozerRockford, IL United States Post Number: 24 Registered: Feb-06 | It looks like the manufacturers are using 1080p as a selling point right now to move their product, of all the 1080p sets out, there are only a few that can actually accept a 1080p input, BTW where are ya gonna get a 1080p signal at? Right now their are some good deals on current 720p RPTVs, I would buy one of those or just wait for the next wave of 1080p sets. |
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Bronze Member Username: CroozerRockford, IL United States Post Number: 25 Registered: Feb-06 | Oh yeah, Make sure you check out this thread, it looks like most of these sets can't even process 1080i yet. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-video/200995.html |
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Anonymous | A 1080P set doesn't require a 1080P signal. It will look much better than any 720P set, especially on larger displays. (more lines) Any signal format fed to a 1080P set will be displayed in 1080P. A 720P signal will be scaled to 1080P. A 1080i signal will have it's scanning method altered to progressive. A 1080i signal will look stunning on a 1080P set because none of the lines will be scaled or removed. Most people don't know that a 720P set will receive a 1080i signal and convert it to 540P. It then scales the 540P to 720P. |
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New member Username: Johnd7Post Number: 2 Registered: Feb-06 | There are so many opinions and people who claim to have the true information and how it works, this is all confusing and non video buffs just need an easy answer. I understand the signal coming in is not 1090p right now but most people just want to know if the 1090p set is going to look better then the 720p with the signals they are currently getting. Can someone just tell me this...Money and value aside, Is there anyway that the 1090p set will look worse then a 720? Sitting 10 feet away with a 50 or 56 in. screen. |
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Silver Member Username: Xdrummer03Tenessee Post Number: 248 Registered: Jul-05 | Snyder,1080p sets will have a better lok and its cause on LCoS there is more lines to reduce motion blurr and screen door effect.Also to sit close to a bigger screen.The advantage of 1080p is not to run a 1080p signal because its not availible nor does anyone know when it will be.The advantage is that it can take a fll 1080i signal.Also examples the 1080p sets have a higher contrast.Like the Sony SXRD having the hghest out right now with 13,330:1 contast ratio. Next closest thing is high end DLP front projecters with around 7,000-8,000:1 contrast ratios and the projectors are close to 8,000-10,000 in price. |
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Bronze Member Username: CroozerRockford, IL United States Post Number: 30 Registered: Feb-06 | The best thing for you to do is compare them side by side and see if the current 1080P sets are worth the extra jack over the 720P sets. I don't think you will notice a big difference. |
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Silver Member Username: Xdrummer03Tenessee Post Number: 252 Registered: Jul-05 | Hopefully you wont see the KDFE50A10 next to the KDSR50XBR1 cause damn you will. |
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New member Username: TolawyerToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 8 Registered: Feb-06 | Drummmer,I have seen them side by side and I have noticed that the SXRD is better, but it is not appropriate to compare the two as they are based on different technologies. The SXRD is LCOS based, whatever that is. The 50A10 is simply abased on straight LCD projection technology. Croozer, I do not understand your question. whatr will I be gettin the 1080p at. Did you mean what will I be paying for the thing? I have found the 60 inch for $4,700.00 CDN and the 50 inch for $3,850.00 CDN. But remember that I'm in Canada and HI TECH gadgets in the US, even taking into account the exchange rate usually go for less money than in Canada. I've left my deposit with a small store, actually a large store, but there only is one of them, that appears a have a very good long-standing reputation with TV sales and service and seems very knowledgeable about its product. There is a chain here called Future Shop (owned and operated by the same people who own Best Buy) have told me that they will beat the price and throw in 10 months hi-def cable for free. But, frankly, I would rather pay a little more and know that I can rely on someone to service the thing properly if it needs servicing than a big corporation that might not care about the quality of its technicians. Question to those in the Greater Toronto Area - Does anyone know G & G Electronics in Toronto, and is there an advantage buying from them over Future Shop? |
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jamescrew6 Unregistered guest | The question you have to ask is whether there is an appreciable difference in the picture quality for a 1080p set vs one that displays 1080i or 720p. Right now no signals are broadcast in 1080p so 1080i and 720p signals have to be converted to 1080p. I have a Mit 52725 that displays in 720p and the picture is great. I have seen the "1080p" sets and the picture is stunning but I cannot see any appreciable difference in the picture quality from the 720p set that I own so I would not pay more for a 1080p set when the older model gives me a great picture. But that's me. Some people will see a significant difference in the picture quality from a 1080p set vs a 720p or 1080i set and for them it may be better to purchase a 1080p set now. Just my humble opinion. |
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Silver Member Username: Xdrummer03Tenessee Post Number: 253 Registered: Jul-05 | James like stated above all sets but two right now dont have a input for 1080p.some sets there is not an improvement so much in clarity but in color.Like new DLPs are not neccessarily sharper but mave better contrast.The LCD and LCOS projection there is a noticable difference in PQ. Its all in the set not all about technology.If you see a high def feed on like 2 comprable models you can see a huge difference.(ex KDSR50XBR1 vs KDFE50A10) |
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Bronze Member Username: BriankPost Number: 16 Registered: Jan-06 | It annoys me when people ask "where are you going to get a 1080p signal?" (Croozer). Many HDTV buyers would like to keep their TVs for 10 years+. No doubt in that time, 1080p sources will become available. So there should be no suprise that people would want to buy a TV now that can take advantage of that signal. |
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Anonymous | Yea, but almost none of the set makers are including 1080P capability on the HDMI or component inputs. That really limits your choice to HP DLP and who else? Be annoyed, BrianK! It's just the facts today! Only the internal ATSC tuners can receive a broadcasted 1080P signal, which isn't going to happen this decade. That is why it's a non-issue! |
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Bronze Member Username: BriankPost Number: 19 Registered: Jan-06 | But next decade which is only 4 years away, those HP HDTV owners are going to be happy their sets can accept that 1080P signal. So I don't understand how it can be a "non-issue" unless you have enough money that you plan on buying another TV in <5 years. I would certainly take a 1080P native resolution and 1080P input support seriously when shopping for a HDTV. The HP sets and the 7th gen Samsungs (among others) are attractive for this very reason. All else being equal on the TVs, why wouldn't you buy the 1080P set so in 5 years you're ready for 1080P??? |
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Anonymous | I'm all for buying any native 1080P resolution set today, but to want 1080P signal input capability creates a severe choice limitation at this point in time. After all, PS3 is backing off from it. Xbox 360 doesn't have it. HD DVD and Blu-Ray won't commit. Unless you are going to buy an expensive DVDO or Faroudja scaler the 1080P signal input capability shouldn't be an issue and limit a customer's HD set choice. That's all I'm saying. The 1080i signal on a native 1080P display set is the same damn thing anyway. What real difference does it make? |
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Anonymous | Well people I have a stupid question to ask? lol...I have to replace my mirror in my samsung HLR5067W dont ask why iam replacing it<<LOL...Whats the difference between the samsung mirror(the one that broke) than a regular mirror |
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Bronze Member Username: BriankPost Number: 20 Registered: Jan-06 | Anonymous wrote "Unless you are going to buy an expensive DVDO or Faroudja scaler the 1080P signal input capability shouldn't be an issue and limit a customer's HD set choice. That's all I'm saying." I did put the disclaimer in my last post "all things being equal why wouldn't you go for the 1080p set". Also, there is NO uncertainty on the 1080p resolution and protocol. It has already been defined. It doesn't matter if Blue-ray wins or HD-DVD. Those are just optical storage standards. When they do start outputing 1080p (and they will someday, but maybe not at first) both blue-ray and HD-DVD players will output the same 1080p signal. Likewise, it doesn't matter if xbox or PS3 supports 1080p, they are just potential sources. There will be 1080p sources in the next 5 years and my point is it is worth considering a 1080p native TV if you plan on keeping your TV for a while. |
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Silver Member Username: Xdrummer03Tenessee Post Number: 259 Registered: Jul-05 | Buying a 1080p set like the HP for the capability is quit minor to me.I mean seriously they have a hard enough to broadcasting or just having more high def channels is hard let alone start thinking about 1080p.There committing to everything going digital in 3 years so hard to say 1080p will be like 5 years away.Also the way 3:2 pulldown works on a television unless you have really well trained eyes you may,but still prolly not even see the difference in the two.Also when you get one home you can see a difference in a set when its side by side. So quit honest 1080p direct input is way overated as well as when is 1080p going to be broadcasted. Even so the 1080p DLP's that use smooth picture can hardly or resolve all of it for that matter a 1080i signal. |
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fx Unregistered guest | "Also the way 3:2 pulldown works on a television..." The correct notation is 2-3. First, your incorrect notation gives the reader the incorrect impression of a ratio. Second, had you any experience in modern telicine machines as I do, you would realize 2 then 3. xvxvxvx |
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Silver Member Username: Xdrummer03Tenessee Post Number: 261 Registered: Jul-05 | MUrp...Unregistered = waste of space.Well if our slowing something down how would it go from 2-3.Doesnt matter anyways sorry im not correct about everything.Anything i have ever seen labeled has been 3-2 pulldown though. |
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New member Username: Cah0606Post Number: 1 Registered: May-06 | I registered for this site simply to set a few things straight here on this post. I work at a high end audio/video store named Audio Visions in Wilmington, NC, and I think I know a few things about this topic that should set things straight. 1-very few tv's out there will actually accept a 1080p signal. Like I said, I work at a high end store, but none of the tv's there will accept a 1080p signal, with the exception of one through a PC input. The first tv we will be getting in that will accept the singal will be Sharps new 1080p LCD flat-panel (you can find out the model number yourself, frankley I don't know it by heart, and well, I'm lazy). If you want to know if a particular tv will accept 1080p (the answer is probably no right now) check the specs. you may even have to download a manual for this one. Look for where it list the inputs, and 9 times out of 10 it will say what inputs the compontent and HDMI inputs will accept (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p) 2-it's still an advantage for a tv to be "1080p" even if it won't except the signal. "1080p" sets have roughly twice the resolution. 3-a 1080i signal processed through a 1080p tv, while better than a normal HDTV, will not look near as good as an actual 1080p signal. We've all seen the actual signals. It's the loops that are playing off of the tv's built in hard drive that looks freakin awesome(commmon on Mitsubishi Diamonds). 4-the signal is available. The time has come. Blu-Ray is here. There will be more sources for 1080p available in the next few years, I predict. 5-Here's the important point I have to make....WAIT! Don't pay for a "1080p" tv that won't accept 1080p. Trust me, it will be worth the wait. My last piece of advance is kinda irrelevant, but screw it. You'll think me later. If your looking for a flat panel, and don't want to wait, buy an Hitachi Director's Series plasma (only about 50 places in the country that are authorized dealers, but its worth the hunt). Again, I'm in the business. I don't know if I would call myself an expert, but...I'm an expert  |
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Silver Member Username: Formerly_fxDallas, Tx Post Number: 110 Registered: Mar-06 | I just thought I should correct some of the "evpert's" info. 1080i and 1080p are both 1920 x 1080 pixels so the frame resolution will be identical. Naturally the field resolution of 1080p is exactly twice that of 1080i but that doesn't change the data resolution of either signal. The only time you might see a bit of difference (other than the total amount of data) is during a static image such as your guide data being displayed on your screen. During any moving pictures your eyes cannot tell the screen is flickering at 60 hz (50 hz in the UK). xvxvxvx |
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New member Username: TacticaltankPost Number: 3 Registered: May-06 | 1080i = flickering upconvertion to 1080p = no flickering |
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New member Username: DatmanPost Number: 3 Registered: May-06 | Sony has already announced that the Blu Ray is capable of 1080p. While it is true that no movie studio has announced that they will make their DVDs available in 1080p I think it is only a matter of time before they do. If you're going to plunk down ~$4k on a tv I think it's a damn good idea to wait a few months and get the version that allows for 1080p direct inputs. This will maximize the longevity of your tv set. Also, the 2nd gen SXRD isn't only about 1080p inputs. It will have 30% shallower depth, have 55" and 70" screen options in addition to 50" and 60", will get rid of the controversial "dumbo ears" speaker design, and use a better light engine. This is info I culled from reading reports from 2006 CES and cnet. Hope this helps. |
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Bronze Member Username: Ju1cyfru1tPost Number: 16 Registered: Mar-06 | Here is a link that I got from Brian Pool(tapeworksbrian@sbcglobal.net). If you are looking for info on the 2006 SXRD TVs, send him an email and he will update you as soon as he gets the information. http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/consumer/television/microdisplay/sxrd_gra nd_wega/release/22354.html These TVs will accept the ever ellusive 1080p, and the XBR2 will have DRC-MF 2.5 and WEGA HD. I'm waiting for the 70". JU1CYFRU1T |
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New member Username: DatmanPost Number: 5 Registered: May-06 | Actually, the article about Sony's new receiver sheds more light on Sony's 1080p intentions. Looks to me like 1080p is definitely in the near future plans. http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/consumer/home_audio_video/blu-ray_disc/re lease/22455.html |
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