HDMI / HDCP problems with SA8300 and a HDMI receiver (plus TWC NY's stupidity)
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PinNYC Unregistered guest | Boy am I frustrated and annoyed with HDCP incompatibilities and especially Time Warner Cable's (NY) stupidity and rudeness about dealing with the problem. So to minimise the cabling behind the back of my unit and the fact I have a HDMI capable Denon receiver and a HDMI capable TV (Sharp), I decided to upgrade to the SA8300 DVR. Only to find on installation day that I get the "Your TV isn't HDCP compliant so please use the component outputs". If I connect the SA box directly to the TV, all works fine, but via the receiver I get the message above on the TV. After ringing around a number of places including Sharp and Denon support as well as reading up on some excellent forums (including this one!), it seems that SA have not implemented the HDMI HDCP (encryption / content protection) specification correctly. When using a receiver to switch HDMI signals, they implement part of the standard called a HDCP repeater that enables the receiver to pass the authentication request to the end point (in this case, my TV). The TV sends the HDCP response back to the receiver, and it in turn sends it back to the SA box. However, because SA have not implemented the HDMI HDCP standard correctly, it does not understand how to process it and displays the HDCP error message. Along with this information, I attempted to contact TWC in NY to find out when they are going to provide an update to the boxes. The person I spoke to was quite adamant that the boxes do support HDMI correctly after I thought HDMI was not working correctly. I told her what I had found out and that it looked like it didn't. Again I was told that the information I had was wrong and there was nothing amiss. After running through my problem (again) I started getting a bit frustrated and explained that I paid the extra money for this feature and could not utilise it. She told me that she had nothing further to add as I was arguing with her that HDMI was not implemented correctly when according to her and TWC, it is. I asked when a fix would be available and said she has no dates for when an update would be (quite obvious they know it is a problem!). So my question to you all is, how many of you are experiencing this and is anyone aware of a fix to this problem? Cheers, P. |
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fx Unregistered guest | They are both correct. Your cable box uses (as most devices do) HDCP version 1.01, your receiver uses HDCP version 1.02. They are not completely compatible as you have discovered. xvxvxvx |
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PinNYC Unregistered guest | Well if that was the case, why couldn't they just tell me that rather than get confused and frustrated with them? Grrrr. You seem to be quite knowledgable on things across this forum. Are the companies likely to resolve this and continue the blasé "we don't really care" attitude? P. |
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PinNYC Unregistered guest | Ah hang on though, both versions of HDMI should support HDMI repeaters according to the standard and the receiver and TV are backward compatible to older versions. Hence it's still the SA8300 being the issue here. P. |
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fx Unregistered guest | "Ah hang on though, both versions of HDMI should support HDMI repeaters according to the standard and the receiver and TV are backward compatible to older versions. Hence it's still the SA8300 being the issue here. P." You are correct except under the circumstances where you are sending V1.01 HDMI data to a V1.02 device and then outputting it back to a V1.01 device. This is where the probelm occurs. It is pretty well documented and as of yet I have seen no solution. xvxvxvx |
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PinNYC Unregistered guest | Even more confused - according to the manuals, the SA8300, Denon AVR-3806 and Sharp LCD-TV are all 1.1 compliant. P. |
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fx Unregistered guest | I am pretty confident that the Denon is using v1.02 which by it's design should be backward compliant with V1.01 but as I described above not under the circumstances outlined by the original poster. xvxvxvx |
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Unregistered guest | having same problem with sa 8300hd and onkyo receiver. works fine when i run sa8300 to monitor, but has hdcp error when trying to run thru receiver. onkyo said it was problem with sa8300 not being compatabile with hdmi 1.1. no one knows of a fix as of yet. |
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Joshrw26 Unregistered guest | I am having the same issue in NYC with Time Warner (Get a HDCP error message when I run HDMI through my receiver). They did admit to me they need to update their HDMI configuration software - "We're aware of the issue and are working on it". That said they didn't have a timeline or an estimated completion date. Very annoying and also annoying I had to figure all this out myself. |
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Unregistered guest | I have a 5 year old gateway home theatre using xp with broad bad and hd, Things work ok but want to reduce the wire and make it work better. .I hear hdmi is great but do not find a full sketch on how to wire it. |
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dmm Unregistered guest | I have the same problem with Yamaha RX-V1600. I called TW in Houston and they didn't know what I was talking about. Said the problem was with the components. Interestingly, I set the receiver up first (TV delivered later) and the audio worked fine from SA 3800 to the receiver using HDMI inputs. But not with the TV. Solutions? |
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fx Unregistered guest | "Solutions?" See above, none available. xvxvxvx |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 672 Registered: Mar-05 | There is a solution, but it all depends on what system of TWC you live in. Of course it all hinges on a software update to the STB to address the issue of pass-thru devices like receivers. Don't have any further information as to a date on when this should be "fixed", I'm in the same boat with customers here too. grrrrr  |
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Unregistered guest | The problem could be with the Denon receiver. Seems they have issues with HDCP. See these links: http://www.devlib.org/resources/gadgets/home-theater/receivers/denon-avr-4306/de tails/ and http://www.audioreview.com/cat/amplification/a-v-receivers/denon/PRD_341704_2718 crx.aspx |
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Bronze Member Username: AngeloNew york Post Number: 12 Registered: Mar-06 | I want to purchase the denon AVR-2807 receiver I was told by denon that the problem with hdmi decoding is not from their receiver but it is from cablevision scientific atlanta 8300hd dvr box. cablevision has not updated their software to decode hdmi via the air. I just called cablevisoin and they told me that they are aware of this problem and will fix it in the near future. cablevision had suggested to me to use component video and optical cables for now not to use hdmi. they will upgrade this problem in the next few months. I dont understand all of this why put out a product with hdmi if you cannot use it. now I have to go out and buy cables that I am not even going to use in the future. does anyone else have this or heard of this problem? |
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Bronze Member Username: Formerly_fxPost Number: 30 Registered: Mar-06 | Scientific Atlanta will not be able ti fix this problem with a firmware upgrade, it will require a new desing and chipset. Since it is really a problem with your Denon I doubt you will ever get a suitable resolution. The new HDMI specs require mcuch more than a simple upgrade however a receiver with the 1.02 (or soon the new 1.03 spec) should have been designed with this potential conflict in mind. Obviously it was not. xvxvxvx |
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Bronze Member Username: AngeloNew york Post Number: 14 Registered: Mar-06 | so what should I do connect the set top box to tv via hdmi then optical out to the receiver or use composit cables from set top box to receiver and optical for audio and hdmi from receiver to tv please help I'm confused |
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Bronze Member Username: Formerly_fxDallas, Tx Post Number: 32 Registered: Mar-06 | You first thought will work with some cable boxes but I believe the optical audio out becomes disabled on the 8300HD model when an HDMI or DVI cable is connected. If not this is a good solution. You do not want to use composite video but component video out. If you use your component cables for video the optical connection directly to your receiver will work fine. In case you have a DLP display you may notice some audio lag but that is display specific plus your Denon likely has an audio delay feature which you can use to compensate if necessary. I assure you that if your display is properly calibrated you will not notice any difference on your screen between the HDMI and component connections unless you press your face against the screen. xvxvxvx |
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Bronze Member Username: Johnd7Post Number: 22 Registered: Feb-06 | I assure you, I am not even a videphile/audiophile but the HDMI video and audio is noticably better with my Cox HD DVR. Unfortunatly the signal cuts out for a second or so every now and then. Cox told me they do not support using the HDMI even though they have enabled the connection. |
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Bronze Member Username: Formerly_fxDallas, Tx Post Number: 33 Registered: Mar-06 | You missed the most important point of my post: PROPERLY CALIBRATED. I assure you again if both the component and HDMI are calibrated by a professional you will see no fifference. Each input must be setup seperately since they will have different Chroma, color, contrast and color levels. At any rate good luck, xvxvxvx |
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Bronze Member Username: AngeloNew york Post Number: 18 Registered: Mar-06 | check this post out from audioholics |
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New member Username: Dr_hdPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | The problem is not with incompatible versions of HDCP- all products are HDCP rev1.1. SA has in fact fixed this with a new revision of firwmare. There was a recent edition of Sound & Vision that talked about this, and the S&V editors were told first hand from SA that they provided the firmware fix to the MSO's months ago. The problem is that the MSO are sitting on the new firmware and refuse to send it out. I don't have why, but would guess it's related to the perceived risk of issuing new firmware vs. the level of compliants they are getting. The best suggestion I can give is to call the MSO, and make sure they record your compliant. After the compliants get high enough, maybe they will finally provide the correct firmware. I would have to agree that such MSOs are providing HD equipment that is clearly non-compliant. The HDCP spec does say that HDCP repeater function must be supported. Unfortunately, the HDMI organization does not have the authority to enforce this because HDCP is not their technology (it's licensed from Intel). So how can we as consumers know if equipment is fully compliant & compatible? Looks like this test lab is doing something about it: www.simplayhd.com |
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New member Username: Kj450mPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | I'm sure I'm being naive here, but I don't know why. Why doesn't someone ( say, a consumer reports type organization) set up a database on a website for people to sign on to and pledge that they will not put up with this nonsense anymore? This is just like the hd/blu-ray thing, they're going to do what they're going to do, and let the public be damned! If all the av magazines, for instance, got together and got people to say that they would buy NOTHING until this nonsense was resolved, maybe something would be resolved in favor of the consumer for a change! I don't put up with this nonsense in any other part of my consumer life, why should I put up with it when it comes to av!? |
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New member Username: SharkydiverPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | I was recommended to get the Denon 2807. I'm from NY, I have Cablevision, I'm getting the SA 4200 (it's not a dvr box) which only has a DVI connection, I really don't need their new model (SA 9600 dvr, the only box that has HDMI connection) I dont use DVR. I'm now concern if I go and purchase the Denon that it will not work with the 4200 model. Any suggestions? For the meantime, my receiver's highest connection is S-video (yes that old) I know I will have to go cable box to tv, but any connection that I can do to still use the receiver's surround sound when In seeing tv? same thing with my XBox 360, Iwill have to connected straight to the tv? how can I still get use of the receiver? |
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New member Username: 7foot10Bay Harbor Islands, FL Usa Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | Count me in as another Denon(3806) and SA(8300HD) hdmi victim, both are brand new and the denon is going back if they or my shoddy cable provider(Atlantic Broadband) can't come to terms. Has anyone tried the new Yamaha HDMI switching recievers with a 3800? |
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New member Username: RmeyerPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-06 | So, has anybody found a fix for this. If SA has a firmware fix, any chance of a user uploading instead of waiting on the cable company. TW seems totally unresponsive when it comes to HD. |
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New member Username: MholsombPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 | Check out simplayhd.com. The receivers below have been tested successfully with the SA8300. Yamaha HTR-6090 A/V Receiver Yamaha RX-V1700 A/V Receiver Yamaha RX-V2700 A/V Receiver |
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