I desperately need assistance. It appears Cablevision of Oakland NJ does not have any qualified people in determining the cause of my problem. Therefore; I am seeking assistance.
MY PROBLEM is that:
CableCard does not download the channel information and gives a "FIRMWARE CABLECARD UPDATE PROGRESSING"
Also TV set refuses to recognize ANY CABLECARDS. We have tried five different new cards. And Cablevision has sent over five different experts (?).
TV is Panasonic PT-61-LCX65 S/N F5AA10642 Cable company is CABLEVISION Present CABLECARD installed is Scientific Atlanta "PowerKey" .. Model PKM600 Part No. PKBBBHMBJ S/N 0002DEFE33B6 .. dated 03/21/2005.
I have waited and after firmware update completes and tunes in Channel 2 but no other channels. It appears that the Cablecard "times out" in exactly 61 minutes each time.
After time our when I tried to find information using ABOUT comment and it does not recognize presence of CABLECARD.
We then power down TV and disconnect plug and remove card. Then we wait 2 minutes and put in card and reconnect plug and power up TV.
Card tries to sense channel data and then returns to FIRMWARE CABLECARD UPDATE PROCESSING. Again, this has occurred for FIVE DIFFERENT CABLECARDS.
We need assistance in determining the problem?
Does Panasonic Have Any Firmware Upgrades for this TV set?
Call Panasonic and report the problem, I'm not certain if they have a new software update for their system, but it would benefit you to call them and see if they can get in contact with your cable provider and see if the two parties involved can come up with a solution.
For the record posting your serial number/mac address is not necessary, that information is only useful to your cable provider.
On the PT-61... please have the reader point the remote at the sensor and press VOL+ while simultaneously pressing VOL+ on the TV panel for about five seconds.
The screen will now reveal the version number of the software on the TV .. if the version is below 1.43 please have the reader contact Panasonic Customer Service and Panasonic will send them an SD memory card that will upgrade the version.
By the way, Scientific Atlanta also double checked the production lots with their engineers and found no evidence of bad PBM CableCards being reported for the time period of the card we were using.
Does anybody else find it strange how there are new software updates available, yet the consumer is not aware of it? Please make sure you register your TV's when you purchase them, this is one way to make sure they know you have their product and should notify you when updates are available. Anyway....glad you found resolution Ed
Cableguy, in this case the manufacturer should not be cited. The TV was manufactured in 6/2005 and arrived on US side on end of July and purchased in 9/2005. The firmware upgrade was just released and Panasonic was very quick to call me when I reported the problem and UPS the SD upgrade chip to me overnight.
In addition, Cablevision of Oakland still has a problem which they are now trying to solve. Apparently it is an authorization problem.
Lastly, the readers should not be "goated" into thinking the CableCARDs do not work in their TV's because the "so called" cable expert plays "ping-pong" with the customer and states that the problem is the TV.
I was visited by six cable company experts and NONE of them knew how to do card diagnostics on the TV. But ALL of them want to force me to upgrade to HD STB's.
I had to call the President of the Cable Company to "light the fires under their derr___es". I had to purchase the TV Service Manual (and I recommend that all TV customers purchase a service manual). I had to call the senior management at Scientific Atlanta.
It is the customers obligation to "hawk" these people if they can't provide the services and go DIRECTLY TO TOP MANAGEMENT.
My point to the Cablevision President was that his people had put in more than 20+ hours and tried more than 8 cable cards on a problem that the company was charging me at a fixed installation rate of $34.95. My statement to him was that "profitability" was the issue here in addition to "customer service".
.. and "yes" he did light a fire and make the solution to this problem a MUST. You see they had never installed a CableCard on a Panasonic PT-61 series and therefore were incapable of solving any further problems involving this set in their domain.
I'm not really sure how to read into your posting, so maybe you could clarify some things for me....
On one hand you say the TV manufacturer should not be cited and then on the other hand it appears you're mad at the cable provider for not knowing what the problem was. Sorry if this is an incorrect interpretation of your post, hence why I need some things clarified ( I like to debate, and love to learn). Ultimately what I was stating in my previous post is that there should be something along the lines of what automobile manufacturer's do concerning factory recalls. TV manufacturers should have something in place at retail vendors, as well as their websites that indicate when a particular problem has been documented as a problem and corrected by a software or firmware upgrade, shouldn't that information be made available to the consumer that purchased/or will purchase their product in a timely manner?
Your second statement about Cablevision is open to debate from their end, I don't work for them so I can't comment on their problems Although your statement of " Lastly, the readers should not be "goated" into thinking the CableCARDs do not work in their TV's because the "so called" cable expert plays "ping-pong" with the customer and states that the problem is the TV. " has me really wondering. Is it the cable providers fault they don't know every little update or problem that exist in a particular make of TV, when the consumer who purchased it doesn't even know being fair to the cable provider? Now, please don't take this as another "cableguy" bashing a manufacturer, as this is truely not my intent. I'm just trying to point out that both parties involved have problems, and the consumer is always going to be stuck in the middle of these kind of "finger pointing" scuffles. As a cableguy, I can speak first handed about this aspect. When everything is said and done, it takes the individual who is dealing with this issues a lot of determination,perseverance and commitment to fully understand what is going on with this equipment. Your average cable tech is not going to know all the intimate details of each respective manufacturer's product. Since each TV manufacturer writes their own software for their devices, and believe me the difference between TV manufacturer's is amazing. There is no common ground on what screens are accessible and what information is available from "R" brand to "Z". A cable technician should not, and let me drive this point home, a cable technician should not have any reason to go into a hidden service menu on a TV to find data that should be readily available period Since our job dicates that we have to install these devices, it would greatly benefit everyone if the manufacturers could put certain, non-sensitive data on a general menu screen that would help the installer better understand what the problem is. We are not provided any types of test equipment to determine when the problem is in the TV, or if the problem is in something we are doing wrong. Of course we have RF signal meter's that can tell us our signals are within specifications, but this is only one fraction of the potential problems that could be causing a CC to not work. It takes having accesss with both parties involved in finding resolution, but sadly the average tech is not going to have that access in your home.
Sorry to ramble on, but as I said, I don't understand you posting...you found that there was an update for your TV that needed to be implemented, and I'm a glad you were able to get that resolved. I don't claim to be an expert, I just take pride in my job, and make it my business to know every aspect of my job...even when it involves things that I have no control over. Not every cable guy is going to know as much as I've learned about these devices, but as time goes by, they will.
The TV manufacturer should not be chastised because the upgrade they send me was NEW and they just received it from the factory.
The Cablecard company should be chastised because their "experts" were not as advertised and their company does work directly with the manufacturer and could have EASILY check the version number on my set with the manufacture.
In the case of Panasonic, a tech is assigned to them to assist with customer care and to visit sites with them.
The cable company should have done the following after the first visit and instead of me finding our all the information after six visits.
1) check the version number of the software on the EEPROM and call their Panasonic service agent to verify that the version was indeed current. Or call the Panasonic service agent have them visit schedule a co-visit with their tekkies. It turns out the the version had an upgrade to version 1.43 and Panasonic send them EIGHT SD cards so that they could put them in their service kits. YES, there is no liability to the customer or the cablecard company if THEY install the upgrade as a convenience to the customer. 2) the cable company should have contacted their representative in Scientific Atlanta to verify with the production manager and engineers if a QA problem was occurring with this series of card manufacturer in Mexico on the date on the card. 3) the cable company should have also done diagnostics on their host machine to verify EMM, decypher/cypher authorization, etc. etc.
I should not be doing their work for them. The cable company is CHARGING you for the installation and they should have the expertise to INSTALL the product.
Lastly, the cable card company is leasing a product (the card) and selling a service. If they accept assignment of the job then they are responsible for fulfilling this agreement.
I am not bashing cable guys, I am just stating the facts of my case and my conclusions.
I do not buy the story that the cable people cannot know every TV because all the manufacturers like Sony, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, etc. do provide technical assistance. So who is too lazy to contact the manufacturer for help?
Instead this particular company chose to keep inconveniencing the customer by just throwing bodies at the problem.
I can only speak for this TV manufacturer but it would behoove both the customer and the cableguy to have a stock of service manuals in their libraries so that they can obtain the correct information to solve a problem.
Your analogy to me is like having a surgeon ready to operate but no one had the wisdom to teach him how to hold or use a scalpel.
We are having a philosophical difference is that I do believe that the cableguy should have intimate knowledge of the product they are working on and if they do not know how to do diagnostics or make an incision walk away and find someone in their organization who does.
Thank you for clarifying and now the light bulb is on. Everything you stated makes perfect sense, in a perfect world all your points of interest should take place. I agree with points 2 and 3 100%, my only disagreeance with you is on point 1 and specifically (quote) "Panasonic send them EIGHT SD cards so that they could put them in their service kits. YES, there is no liability to the customer or the cablecard company if THEY install the upgrade as a convenience to the customer." Our company takes a strong stance on not installing TV manufacturer software. We have taken a stance that it is their product and they are responsible for upgrading their software. Now...that being said everything else you mentioned holds truth, the so called "expert" should be aware of what versions of software should be available on a particular TV, and make the customer aware they need to contact their respective manufacturer to get the upgrade, then follow up with the customer once the upgrade has taken place and make sure it did in fact fix the problems. As my job has evolved since July of 2004 with the advent of these devices, so must the industry in general. Cable companies as well as TV manufacturer's must have open communication to allow both businesses to provide the consumer with a working product, and also afford the access to knowledge of equipment. As I said in my opening lines "in a perfect world....", sadly from what I've read here since the inception of the cable card, most of these are still not taking place. I guess my reason for not understanding fully what your initial statement was based on the fact that I do make it my business to know every aspect of these devices because I don't want to be the guy that people are coming in here to post about not having a clue. I don't have all the answers, but at least I know where to look when I don't, and every now and then somebody in here can benefit from what I've learned.
Thanks for the discussion Ed, it's been a learning experience for me and hopefully for you as well. If somebody else reads this and learns from it Bonus Round!
I am sorry but your last message is a "ping-pong". My point is that ALL cable companies are selling a service. They are willing to lease their products and collect service charges but apparently only if they can walk in the door and just "plug and play".
They just can't say to the customer it is the TV because it may not be the TV. They can't say that it may be a part (in this case the CableCARD) so let's change the same part over and over again until maybe it works.
They should not say to a customer "be home between 8 - 6 or 2 - 5" and then not fix the problem and cause the customer to lose time and moneys. Especially for 6 days.
The President of Cablevision has given a directive to his company to install new upgrades as a SERVICE to his customers as part of their "customer care" philosophy.
If your cable company disagrees with this then they must have some legal reason to do this.
Then tell the customer BEFORE they accept the assignment and charge for service NOT rendered to call their TV manufacturer and verify the most recent update. That move will surely flood the FCC with complaints. It will also result in some CEO's speaking directly to one another.
Again, this move is up to your employer. But let us make it very clear that your employer is selling a service and providing products (the cable card) and they have a responsibility for making this system work.
I wish to thank you for the taking the time to discuss this subject with me. You are providing a great service by using your knowledge to help us unfortunate customers who at the mercy of the TV manufacturer, cable company and parts suppliers.
You are A-100 with me and I am sure that I also reflect the thoughts of the many people you are helping.
Thank you again for your comments. Your points are valid and although your provider does things differently from the way things my employeer does, I understand the concerns and problems. It takes people like you, and others here to make a change in the industry. I've said it before, this new product is not going away, so cable companies better learn from these kinds of mistakes that are being made. I don't have a perfect track record on first visits, as learning took place in the customers home. What I do have is 100% success after properly troubleshooting and documenting the problem, and then getting support from the manufacturers to pinpoint the cause and remedy. If every cable company could at least get the basics down pat, people like yourself and others here wouldn't need to look online for solutions to problems the cable provider should be taking care of. My whole reason for even coming to this forum was learn more about them, as my training was: 1. Here's a cable card 2. When you insert it into a TV, these numbers will pop up 3. call these numbers in and services should be working. The only difference between most other installers/techs and myself is I don't like to walk into a customers house and not know what I'm doing. So I researched, read, asked questions and got answers. My ability to help others is in my opinion over rated, I can speculate based on previous experiences, and give advice on what should be checked and by whom. It really is eye-opening to see so many people having problems...and the common statement " the cable guy didn't have a clue"...sad but true. It is in seeing people reply back "thanks" that makes me feel like I am helping, even though I don't really feel I've done anything. We're good Ed, we can agree to agree (not disagree lol)that problems exist and that needs to be addressed. Best Regards, CG
Mike0607
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Ed Gelb and Cableguy,
Haven't had a lot of time to browse around here lately, but I got a great deal of pleasure reading the who should have done what for who between you two. I really felt the need to put my 2 cents worth in on this one.
The problem Ed had on his TV is the exact same issue Panasonic had on their TH-series that I posted about on another thread back in June. At that time I was told these models were shipped missing a chip. Maybe a little bogus, but they did at least admit it was their problem, and when our customers called, a service person was dispatched to repair the offending device.
Now there is another model with this problem, and they released the upgrade for this on July 22. Ed bought his TV in September, and had to call Panasonic in mid-October to find there is an issue. Why isn't Panasonic notifying their dealers, and customers about this problem? Why isn't the upgrade being provided to the customer when they purchase these defective devices? Could be that it is only becomes an issue if a CC is installed, and a download is attempted? Not sure, but seems there has been ample time for Panasonic to notify everyone that they are selling something that has a problem.
How this becomes the "cable experts" responsibility, I don't know. If there is this mystery rep from the manufacturer that deals directly with us, why, in this magical day of email, wasn't each operator notified by this person? Has anyone been notified by a manufacturer that they have a problem without calling them first? I don't know of one.
The defect is in their product, they are aware of it, they wrote a fix for it, but they continue to sell them and tell no one there is a problem. I guess if it was something that caused more than grief for their customers, they might pass on what they know, but it is just TV.
I think if anyone wants to flood the FCC with complaints, it should be the Panasonic owners that we see scattered through the threads here who must call the manufacturer to find out that there is an upgrade, released in July, that magically just arrived in October from the factory. Forget just telling folks about this even if they don't have the fix in hand. Let them find out the hard way. But this is not the case. The download has been available from Panasonic since July. You log on to the site, and download it. They don't have to ship it to their authorized people. I don't have a password to do this, but their people do. They fed you a line Ed.
I can't speak for Cablevision, or how well their CC program is going, but if you aren't installing a card on a defective Panasonic, most installs are going pretty well for us. We have installed and upgraded the cards that needed to have the 149 download, so the new cards even install on Panasonics pretty easily. We need to hope there is not a need for another upgrade on any cards in the future, as a lot of Panasonic owners are going to see this issue because they are not being notified there is a problem.
Perhaps this explains why we are also seeing many operators refusing to install cards on non-certified devices. Panasonic only has 2 self verified models listed, and the PT-61 is not one of those. The reward for trying is to be blasted because as "cable experts" we should be able to overcome the manufacturer's inability, or unwillingness to do the right thing for their own customer's. Hey they are fixing it if you call, so I guess a worldwide company like Panasonic is doing all they can.
Sorry for your terrible couple of weeks with Cablevision Ed, but let's put the blame where it belongs. They knew it was broke when they sold it to you.
Sorry but your analysis is not correct. I received the unit on 9/21/05 and discovered the problem on 9/29/05.
I must also inform you that Scientific Atlanta has had production troubles with the PMB600 cards.
Panasonic does offer a download section for the .SED files for this series. Fortunately at that time, I did not have access to the .SED files for the PT-44, PT-52 and PT-61 series upgrade.
You are correct in stating that this .SED was released on 7/22/05. Unfortunately Panasonic has yet to post this upgrade on the panasonic.com site for customers to download and make their own SD upgrade cards.
True that Panasonic has had ample time to notify dealers and by the way the fix (version 1.43) also fixes a problem with Motorola CableCards.
Now let me also stress that the cable company had yet to install a CC in my area on the PT Series and therefore were also in the dark.
So now, they are educated and Panasonic has supplied them with SD cards and a SD Reader to make their own SD cards.
Let me also reconfirm that the cable company threw six experts at me .. and the final two experts (7th and 8th) found that the host had a problem and had to install a new card for a defective one.
So here is the problem in a nutshell. The TV Version 1.40 will work with a SA cablecard but the first time you unplug the TV and restart it the cardcable will examine if it (the card) needs a new version and the TV be incapable of downloading the new SA card version which is currently 1.49.
It therefore goes to reason that people could be using cablecards on the PT series and if the version is the current SA cablecard version 1.49 then they will probably not see any upgrade messages and only be faced with improperly set cable company host machines and possible bad SA cablecards.
.. and by the way, a password and login are not necessary to download either the TH or PT series .SED files and if you have a SD reader as an external unit or in your laptop computer you are way ahead of the game. Obviously these are the same SD cards used in the digital cameras.
Panasonic in Japan also via Internet supplies the SD format software (that is their AV division) and a list of SD readers that will work according to the Windows Operating System (98/98SE/ME/2K/XP) you have.
I am also sorry but I must disagree, the basic problem was with the cable company who just refuses to dig into the problem which was not solely Panasonic's problem.
Here is some more information on the Panasonic TV's. It is a message directly from tech support staff.
..."The most current versions of firmware files are for use in 2005 Plasma and LCD projection TV models.
This year there are only 2 series of plasma which have cablecard slots. The PX50 series (37", 42" and 50") and the PX500 models which are the TV Guide on screen models. Those have a version 1.62 firmware and for the most part may not need any updates because except for the initial production run, the vast majority of production units will already have the 1.62 firmware installed.
As for the PT series TV we have a Version 1.43 upgrade and are offering SD cards those who have registered their TV's. Unfortunately, the vast majority of buyers DO NOT register their purchases.
We will send SD cards on a "return basis" postage prepaid and installation of the .SEC file on the card easy with our provided instructions."...
Ed, Thanks for the informative posting about Panasonic's firmware. You hit on a key problem in your post that I've mentioned before " Unfortunately, the vast majority of buyers DO NOT register their purchases. "
Mike, Although I don't disagree with what you're saying what Ed points out is that there are not just problems from Panasonic's side of things. I think in the interest of fair play, it's safe to say some cable providers need to step up and learn more about what is going on, as well as consumers need to step up and register their TV's, and manufacturer's need to implement some checks and balances with their products. IMHO, from what I've been reading here, cable providers need to do a better job of knowing more about the product and services they are providing, TV manufacturer's need to do a better job of making sure their product is up to date on software before their product is sold. I make it my business to know the ins and outs of what is going on, believe it is a full time occupation, but it can be done.
Although your statement of " Lastly, the readers should not be "goated" into thinking the CableCARDs do not work in their TV's because the "so called" cable expert plays "ping-pong" with the customer and states that the problem is the TV. " has me really wondering. Is it the cable providers fault they don't know every little update or problem that exist in a particular make of TV, when the consumer who purchased it doesn't even know being fair to the cable provider? Now, please don't take this as another "cableguy" bashing a manufacturer, as this is truely not my intent. I'm just trying to point out that both parties involved have problems, and the consumer is always going to be stuck in the middle of these kind of "finger pointing" scuffles.