Sony Grand Wega KDSR 60 inch vs. Samsung DLP 67 inch 1080p
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Anonymous | I am on the fence. The new Samsung DLP 67 inch 1080p I just saw looks great. I am aware of all the downsides to DLP - I cannot see any rainbows. The new Sony Grand Wega KDSR 60 inch is supposed to be the best thing to come to market this year. My concern is that it is not shipping yet and I have not seen it yet. However, I need to make a decision by the end of this month (custom cabinetry is being made) on the new TV. Should I take the risk on the Sony or just go with the Samsung? |
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fx Unregistered guest | The Samsung uses Bobbing interpolation which is the cheapest and most inaccurate manner in which to convert 1080i in order to dispaly 1080p. I don't know about the circuitry in that specific Sony model but none of their others use the bobbing method. xvxvxvx |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 624 Registered: Jul-05 | If you must.........the Sony. But Im sure you will be back either way with issues. |
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New member Username: ShargomoPost Number: 2 Registered: Sep-05 | Why do you think I will be back with issues? Also, if you had $5000 to spend on a 60 inch or larger screen, what would you do? |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 648 Registered: Jul-05 | I'd wait until there was established reliable technology available, there is no TV worth $5000. there is no watch worth $1000 But money is relative. You have to ask yourself that question more then me. These Tvs all have issues, read the threads. Then ask yourself how lucky you think you might be. I bumped the Sony WEGA thread for you to read. Just tryiing to help. Don't believe me. read read read......The SHILLS are there protecting and defending but they either work for the manufacturers or sell them. Easy to spot. They defend the loudest and with th most name calling/ LOL |
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Jasper-010101 Unregistered guest | What if he doesn't want to wait? You're a fvcking idiot, bong! The Sony SXRD60 is nice 1080P LCOS technology. It's the hot new stuff. |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 659 Registered: Jul-05 | If he does not want to wait I reserve the right to laugh at him when he comes back whining becasue his TV has the deepest blacks ever while waiting for that $250 lamp on back order.....every year or two. And where is all this 1080P source content Eienstein? Oh I see...it's coming ....someday...ROTFLOL In fact where are the 1080P inputs? what to do with them.....Now you can watch TV from 6" away...great fun!!! Stop the madness!!!! You are an example of the idiocy and fanatcism surround technology. Gotta have something you can't even enjoy. LOL. Yeah hot stuff,,,,break out your wallets. BTW 2160i is being bashed around for Summer 2006!! |
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New member Username: ShargomoPost Number: 4 Registered: Sep-05 | bong you are arrogant. it must be nice to have a crystal ball and see the future. how do you know the lamps will always be on back order? i need to make a decision very soon as we are having a custom cabinetry created and they need to know the dimensions of my new tv. the sony sxrd60 seems to be the ticket IMO. |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 663 Registered: Jul-05 | Apparantly there are those who can see the future so well they will put thousands of dollars up on the table. You guys are the ones with the crystal ball. Im only calling it as I read it from those who evidentually can see into the future!! You deserve what you will reap. Enjoy. I hope the cabinetry looks real nice because there will be weeks on end thats all you will be watching! |
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nepenthe Unregistered guest | Like many others, I am always wowwed by what is coming around the bend, but I am in the boat of having to purchase a new set now. I was under the impression that 1080i was directly translated to 1080p. If so, would that not be an advantage over a 720p set? It would be nice to have one of the new 1080p LCoS RP's, however my purchase must be made this weekend, and the Toshiba 195 series 1080p are available. BTW... wobbulation doubles the horizontal pixels of the 960x1080 TI chip, it does not mitigate the interlaced signal |
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nepenthe Unregistered guest | Like many others, I am always wowwed by what is coming around the bend, but I am in the boat of having to purchase a new set now. I was under the impression that 1080i was directly translated to 1080p. If so, would that not be an advantage over a 720p set? It would be nice to have one of the new 1080p LCoS RP's, however my purchase must be made this weekend, and the Toshiba 195 series 1080p are available. BTW... wobbulation doubles the horizontal pixels of the 960x1080 TI chip, it does not mitigate the interlaced signal |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 667 Registered: Jul-05 | 1080P is a waste of money.....Don't buy hype! http://www.hdtvexpert.com Read Read read. Do the reseach. Do not buy into fanatic thought. the "IF you build it they will come" types will lead you astray. Be wowed instead by your self discipline and ability to be smarter then the crowd. NOT the print on a spec sheet that means nothing in real terms. |
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nepenthe Unregistered guest | Tom, I believe my eyes and being a computer guy, some level of skepticism of the absolute latest tech. THat said, the Toshiba 62HM195 impressed me with its picture. You do seem to have quite the presence on this site and have very strong sentiments. What 60"-70" RP non CRT set would you select. Be mindful that non-CRT is due to radiation concerns. TIA, nepenthe |
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nepenthe Unregistered guest | As a note, I did like the Sony 70" 720p as well, but the price was prohibitive. Researching this subject has been quite aggravating, with so many opinions and conflicting "facts". |
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nepenthe Unregistered guest | As a note, I did like the Sony 70" 720p as well, but the price was prohibitive. Researching this subject has been quite aggravating, with so many opinions and conflicting "facts". |
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New member Username: ShargomoPost Number: 5 Registered: Sep-05 | Quote "1080P is a waste of money.....Don't buy hype! I have read this link - good info. I really leaning towards the Sony Grand Wega KDSR 60, which is 1080i. Any links on info relating to the bulb problem you are aware of? |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 668 Registered: Jul-05 | >>>>>>You do seem to have quite the presence on this site and have very strong sentiments. What 60"-70" RP non CRT set would you select. Be mindful that non-CRT is due to radiation concerns.<<<<< Yeah Im not Mr.Popular around here LOL. But strong convicted alternative opinion never is. That said. I have two recommendations based on what I have read. BTW I am not as pro CRT as many would suggest. I just do not see a viable alternative in RP lamp based TV technology. It may seem like I am pro CRT becasue there is no great reason to spnd the money right now on fixed pixel technology if you do not have space or concerns like yours. That said I have a low end Plasma in the Bedroom. I do not baby my Tvs. I do not want to have to worry about the electricity going out and the fans not running to properly cool lamps, I do not want battery backup line conditioners hanging off the backs, I do not worry about burn in. I want to turn it on and off for 7 years and have there be a picture everytime. My needs are simple. I just want to use my TVs without thought about e preventing a myriad of issues. They have to be like refridgerators to me. Always have been. Why pay more for less? OK all that said. First of all join Costco. The reason I say this is Costco has a lifetime warranty on everything they sell, (computers excepted). They have a huge selection of all types of TV technology and many top brands from Pioneer to Sony PAnny etc. No EW needed. Stands come with the TVS...Yes even on the 61" Toshiba for $2995. I would not spend extra for any 1080P set as there is no need for it and may not be for many many years if ever. I would not buy any lamp based TV because the lamps are at the minimum $200 and you could be down for weeks waiting for one. You may need one every yesr as well. Not a comforting thought. The benefits are not worth paying 10% of your purchase price each year. The lamps may come down in price.... I would not bank on that. Lamps are not a new idea. Printer ink has not come doen. (Read cash cow) Again with your size choice you really do not have much to chose from outside Lamp based solutions. A 60" Plasma will cost you more then any TV is worth and there are no LCDs in that size readily available to my knowledge The only choice you have in my opinion unfortunatly is a lamp based TV. As that is your only choice I would have to say the Toshiba at Costco would be your best bet at that size. I do not think Costco has any other 60" TVs in their stores but perhaps on their website. Of the projection Tvs I consider DLP the worst of the bunch because of the spinning wheels and the rainbow effect. You may not be affected but you may have frioends or family that may be. I would look for a RPLCD. Costco is the limitation for me. That is the best 5 year or more insurance policy you can buy and the lowest entry point price wise. If money is of no concern. You need not do much reseacrh Just buy what you like where ever you want. I would buy a plasma in that case. Looks nicer on the wall and no lamps to replace. No downtime for that reason anyway. Good Luck. |
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Silver Member Username: Dlp4mePost Number: 219 Registered: May-05 | You intellectualy impotent types are fun to mess with, tom! Since you seem to keep repeating yourself to stay in the forefront of the forum, let me assure you that I can do the same. There are over 5 million DLP's in service from over 75 makers, and you group a few glitches from two forums, form a shallow, narrow minded opinion, and crusade to pan a truly wonderful display revolution. You haven't even owned one yet, but they're all chopped liver to you. Your effort to compare CRT to lamp projector technology and then claim that consumable lamps in DLP's are proof of a flawed technology is absurd. I see where you whine about millions of flipping mirrors, but I can't find a failed DMD chip thread. You cry about spinning color wheels, but I can't find the failed color wheel thread, either. I see where you have grouped Panasonic LCD lamp failures and Sony LCD display failures in with DLP to form your opinions. Honest objectivity is absent from your determinations. You may have convinced yourself that DLP is not one of the highest quality displays in the history of display technology and that's fine. Preaching your non-objective bulshit opinions on others to the extent that you have (668 posts since July) is a whole new twisted motivation that many folks will find disturbing. Perhaps you should consult a professional shrink about this bizzar obsession of yours. I'm all for anyone choosing the product they want. Makes no difference to me. Until D-ILA LCOS is a faster refreshing proven technology, I'm of the opinion that the DLP display is the absolute best available on the market today. It's a brilliant, sharp, clear, accurately colorful experience with the right signal put to it. It can't even be matched by anything out there in my opinion. DLP is the superior and preferred projection technology of professional Cinemas. They have billions invested to display content the way that producers and directors intended. With 35 trillion colors (8 times more than film) and no fade or flutter it has surpassed film in reproductive display quality. Having a mini version of that in my home has been an incredible pleasure for me. I highly reccommend that anyone interested in having the very best in home theater consider a beautiful DLP display of their choice. Compliment that with a quality surround sound system and pop some corn. Reasonably priced home theater doesn't get any better! |
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Bong=idiot Unregistered guest | nepenthe Bong is a idiot. |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 674 Registered: Jul-05 | Oh here comes the cut and paste advertising hype from the Texas Instrument employee FYI,DLP and the rest of the SHill names he uses to fan the DLP fire! LOL I hope it works and many run out and buy the flawed TVs. I will garner a few more "victims" to laugh atwith. Im not laughing at you guys. Im laughing with you. |
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New member Username: ShargomoPost Number: 6 Registered: Sep-05 | the issue in this thread is KDSR vs Samsung DLP. I am just as confused now as I was before. DLP4me has a good point about the people complaining about DLP wheels etc. ps. Bong - did you ever think of keeping a spare bulb on hand in case your present bulb burns out and you will not have to wait for a replacement? |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 679 Registered: Jul-05 | OK SO I buy a TV for $2500 Spend another $400 for an extended warranty Then another $250 for a "spare" bulb every year. And $399 for a matching stand....The TV is just not worth that much outlay in my opinion. Too many hurdles that go beyong the bulb and none of them are as easily fixable. BTW I do not keep a $2500 worth spare set of tires around for my $25000 car either. |
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New member Username: ShargomoPost Number: 7 Registered: Sep-05 | $400 for the EW covers the bulb. I say, forget the EW and pay for 1 bulb. BTW who pays$2500 for spare tires? Bond what TV do you own? What price range are you in? |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 685 Registered: Jul-05 | I have a 50" RPCRT, a 36" Sanyo, a 42" Plasma (Maxcent) I will pay up to $1500 to replace the Toshiba. But I will need more then a 50" I do not like "stretched and distorted PQ" I will watch 4:3 in 4:3. So I will lose some picture size. I have decided to wait until the Toshi fails before replacinig it as there is no solution that will cover all the bases it currently does equally as well. |
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nepenthe Unregistered guest | My apologies for the thread hijack. It is a shame that so much ad hominem has to obfuscate proper conversation. We are all guilty of excessively defending our decisions, no need to gleen anything else from it. Yes, keeping a spare bulb is logical for any owner of a lamp projector TV. It is also sensible to select a system with the fewest moving parts. Anyone who has a hard drive can tell you that a disk cannot spin @ 10K rpms for 10 years. I would think that color wheels would have a similar, if not significantly shorter live expectancy. The wobbulation tech bothers me a bit as well. You cannot compare commercial DLP projectors with full 3 color 1920x1080 chip (READ: no color wheel or wobbulation) to a three thousand dollar DLP set. Perhaps the same can be said for LCoS, but I feel more comfortable with said technology since it has no major moving parts. My issue was timeframe. I would go with the Sony.... but the one I really want is one thousand more and a week or two away. I do not have the time to wait. Why the new Sony? Well it is not only the 1080p which seems to have so many people hyped. The screen will not be as reflective as the previous model (I do have a couple of windows in the room.) The overall picture quality is supposedly the same as the new "ultra-high end" Qualia 006. Anyway, I greatly appreciate the information you folks have provided. Thank you nepenthe. |
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New member Username: ShargomoPost Number: 8 Registered: Sep-05 | nepenthe what are you going with? i am under time pressure to make a decision as well. i am probably going to go with the sony kdsr. |
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Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 702 Registered: Jul-05 | The worst way to make a decision on this technology.....under time pressure. Whats that mean. You have dissapearing money? LOL DO the research take your friggin time. or You will be back askiing like that latest Panny owner for buyers of his Lamp eater. |
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New member Username: NepenthePost Number: 1 Registered: Sep-05 | Tom, Research on the subject of RP TV's is a frustrusting one, littered with conflicting facts which are often tainted with no small measure of subjectivity. Fortunately, I had spent some time looking at a number of sets. Time constraint refers not to the inability to do research, but the immediate need to make a purchase. It infers that there will be no waiting for the "even better" sets available next month or next year ("Time to wee-wee or get off the pot"). As I previously stated, if the resources (like an extra week and a few more dollars) were permitted I would prefer the latest Sony KDS-R60XBR1. If it is anything like the Qualia 006, I would be content. Otherwise I am considering the Toshiba 62xm195. Aric, All thing said, go with your eyes. If you like the Sony, From what I have read and seen, you should be pleased. |
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New member Username: ShargomoPost Number: 9 Registered: Sep-05 | Last night I went to go see the Qualia for myself(70 inch was on display). They had the lastest samsung 6178 next to it. This is what my eyes tell me, the Samsung is much brighter, has better blacks and showed more color details. It showed some splotchy spots as it seemed to be revealing the errors with the original video. The Qualia only seemed to have the edge in having a smoother picture without having any splotchy sopts. I am still undecided at this point and I am going to wait a few more weeks to see the 60 inch kdsr for myself. My only concern left with the DLP from Samsung is that there is moving parts that may break down over time. If someone out there can show me that this won't happen I would get a DLP today. |
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Evil J Unregistered guest | Well, I can't say that it won't breakdown, but I do know 3 people that have Samsung DLP Tvs. 1 has run a 50" for two years with a family that watches non-stop. They have never had to replace a single element. The other two own 42" Samsung DLP TVs.... One has had her's for 3 years and had to have some work done, though she never told me what it was (It was repaired quickly though). The other has had theirs for 2 years, again, not needing to replace anything. I personally have an 8 year old Hitachi 61" RP TV. I have NEVER replaced a lamp and it has the same picture it did when I bought it. I am going with the Samsung only based on what I have seen from the ones that my friends have. Just owning a RP TV is taking a chance, but until they make a CRT TV in the 60"+ Realm, that would weigh less than 1000 lbs, RP is the way for me. |
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Bronze Member Username: JimkwColumbus, Ohio USA Post Number: 80 Registered: Jun-05 | Daughter has a 50 inch Samsung DLP for about two years now. No problems whatsoever, and it is watched quite a bit and her partner does play games on it also. |
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Unregistered guest | First, I have never seen the TV that I'm about to recommend, but it is the one I will buy after lots of research since 13 months ago (September 2004). I have seen the current models from the manufacturer, JVC, have read all the good and bad reviews about their units, and I have seen almost every other brand and every technology for sale as I went from store to store. So, what follows is my most objective recommendation. I would go with JVC's new 70 inch 1080p LCOS HD-70FH96 from a reputable Internet seller (well-rated by Bizrate.com) for about $5500 (estimated, based on the latest September 2005 list price from JVC USA, now set at a much lower revised $6000, compared to the initial $9000 back in February 2005). Next, I would add a reputable aftermarket extended warranty, like from Philips, for about $300 to $400 for an extra 3 or 4 years of in-home coverage. Why JVC? The reason is that JVC has probably developed more experience with the issues associated with 3-chip LCOS class technology than any other manufacturer. Now, 3 chips mean much more heat than 1 chip so it has cooling issues met with increased cooling (note the loud cooling fan complaints from 720p model owners, who otherwise love the superior-to-all-technologies image, when not smashed too hard by some bonehead in shipping and left unadjusted). After at least 2 continuous years selling LCOS technology JVC's statistically has the best chance of making the most reliable LCOS solution, better than inexperienced Sony (front projector experience does not count -- only real experience with the actual format and consumer feedback counts) or LG, offering 70 and 71 inch solutions respectively by Christmas 2005. Until next year when SED Inc., the multi-billion $ invested joint venture between Epson and Toshiba, who by the way is dumping plasma and LCD in 2006 when SED begins shipping, LCOS is currently the finest image producing technology. Its has no rainbow effect (everyone can see it! -- just dart your eyes left and right when you look at any DLP TV set), no mesh effect, respectable black levels on the 1080p generation, the highest light output (you'll actually need to adjust the excellent output level down a bit in your home, which makes its good contrast levels even better), excellent focus, and the absolutely smallest pixel separation for the smoothest, sit-closer-than-ever unpixelated image. Now color, one of the most visible features of an image, is really the most important in the end. With 3 separate chips, each dedicated to its color, you will start to see more than just pink, yellow, or black people that all the other technologies display. Trust me, the most challenging colors for a TV to produce are skin colors -- these rest, like a red stop sign or green grass are very easy to fool the eye. With LCOS you will see people with peach-colored skin, with olive skin, brown skin, beige skin, orange and sallow skin, you name it -- LCOS color is just so incredibly natural and dynamically expanded compared to all the other technologies. A final thought: the "myth" about 1080p is not a myth. The fact is that 1080p actually has more and therefore smaller pixels than 720p, even if the source is not 1080p. The point is, 720p sources will get up-converted to 1080p and then you will actually not need to sit 15 feet away from your 70 inch unit to enjoy it without seeing pixels, like you would with a 720p unit. For a 70 inch screen you can sit as close as 12 feet with a 1080p DLP and as close as 10 feet with the ultra smooth LCOS and therefore enjoy that theater experience that no other technology can provide. |
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Bronze Member Username: ImustbecrazyPost Number: 32 Registered: Sep-05 | Dude; My two cents. Buy what you want. It's your money. However, I DO RECOMMEND THE EXTENDED WARANTEE. Yes, it's additional money, but you buy piece of mind. That is, if it breaks, someone shows up to fix it at a price that you can afford. EW continued.... For me, I've spent $4 grand. I have a guaranteed 4 years before it may cost me money. I DON'T HAVE TO EXPLAIN ADDITIONAL SPENDING ON IT TO MY WIFE. But, do note, my wife is a Block Buster DVD advocate. We can't go back to our 27" TV. |
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Bronze Member Username: MystroPost Number: 61 Registered: Jan-05 | To answer your question...I would go with the Samsung 1080p. I did, and every day I have a smile on my face when I fire the media room up. True, there is only 1080i being broadcast but the upscale to 1080p is amazing. I am sure you can see a difference with a 480i DVD player and a 480p progressive scan dvd player. Same thing with the 1080i vs 1080p. It will play 1080p when or if that ever happens but the 1080i upscale is awesome. The Samsung has a 10,000 to 1 contrast and the black is so black it disapears in low light viewing. Imagine how good it will look with the new hi-def dvd's coming out next year. You got to pay to play. Drop some coin now and enjoy yourself. I watched and waited for the last 2 years. I knew 1080p would be when it was time to jump and I am so glad I did.  |
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Silver Member Username: Hd_fanaticBoise, ID Post Number: 170 Registered: May-05 | Damm Mystro, that's one of the cleanest looking set-ups I have seen! I am jealous! Did you design and build the entertainment center yourself? And is there easy access to the back for connecting cables? |
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Bronze Member Username: MystroPost Number: 63 Registered: Jan-05 | HD Fanatic,....I designed and help built the media room. I am in the pro recording business as well as designing recording studios. I applied as many accoustic design ideas to my media room when I built my new home. I actually designed my home around the media room 8 years ago. It was a 2 stage proses. Audio was my first concern. I had to wait for the video to catch up. Here is a link to some of the specs and photos... https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/system-showcase/167218.html |
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Unregistered guest | Wow Mystro, great room..the one everyone who enjoys TV entertainment SHOULD have. I just bought the new Mits 1080p 927 series. I moving from a Panasonic plasma. I hope it will make a difference., well, I'm counting on it |
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Unregistered guest | Just more info into the mix--Costco is advertising the Sony KDF-60XS955 for $3399.99 with the stand thrown in. The Sony website lists the same set for $4099 without the stand. I think this is website only. |
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New member Username: Murphy2Post Number: 1 Registered: Oct-05 | I am a new viewer and am having fits at which tv to buy. Sam's Club has the 60" Sony LCD and a 61" Samsung DLP HLR6156WX. I cannot find ANY info on the Samsung. The number does not come up anywhere online. Anyone know what this number is? Which TV should I buy. No more than $4000 or so. |
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Unregistered guest | You might want to ck out the new HP tvs. they are DLP BUT they will accept a 1080p direct input, such as what will probably be in the new Hi-Def DVD players. BTW the Samsung your looking for I believe is HL-R6168. This is also a 1080p set. I am going to purchase the HL-R 6768. Its PQ is a tie betwen the new sony lcos but the footprint on the sony is huge. The samsung fits my space just right. I found this tv for under $ 4k at circuit city. |
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Silver Member Username: FyiDallas, Texas Post Number: 408 Registered: May-05 | James, There's a 6167, a 6168, and a 6178. That's it for 61 inch Samsungs. |
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New member Username: Murphy2Post Number: 2 Registered: Oct-05 | Sam's Club says all the 60"Sony's they sold have been recalled. Any one else know anything about that? |
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New member Username: ShargomoPost Number: 10 Registered: Sep-05 | I started this thread last month, as I was on the fence. I purchased the Samsung 6768 (67 inches) DLP last week. I absolutely love it. The colors and resolution are amazing. It is way better than my previous set, a Mitsubishi. I spent the weekend watch HD Discovery and HD football. It is unreal and phenominal. I chose this set over the sony based on colors, clarity and blacks(perfect on the Samsung DLP). Also, I got a bigger TV for less money and I never have had good experiences with Sony' customer service. Samsung DLP is the hands down winner. |
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New member Username: Murphy2Post Number: 3 Registered: Oct-05 | where did you buy it and how much? |
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Bronze Member Username: ShargomoPost Number: 11 Registered: Sep-05 | I purchased at PC Richard and Son in Paramus, NJ. Are we allowed to post pricing in this forum? |
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datman Unregistered guest | This is just my personal opinion, but I think the new Sony SXRD tv kicks tail over any other manufacturer's 1080p tv out there-- although I haven't seen the new HP Pavilion DLPs yet. But with Blu Ray and PS3 coming out with the ability to output 1080p (that's my understanding) why did Sony not put 1080p direct input capability into these new tvs. That's the only thing keeping it from being perfect. |
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Silver Member Username: XgrizzlyxPost Number: 128 Registered: Jul-04 | and that make no sense to me why would a tv claim to be 1080p and not have an 1080p input, so what do you do with these tv's when 1080p content is around. that is the case with the sony, how about the samsung does it have 1080p inputs that will handle 1080p at the various frame rates, I guess the new HP dlp tv's does. |
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datman Unregistered guest | According to Sound & Vision's review of the HP Pavilion DLP in last month's issue, the HP and a few Mitsubishi DLP models are the only tvs currently with 1080p inputs. Both the HP and Sony tv reviews by Sound & Vision are available in the Reviews section of ecoustics.com. Look under rear projection tvs. They specifically mention the Sony not having 1080p inputs as it's only weakness-- other than relatively higher price (which is well worth it for the better picture quality IMO). |
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New member Username: Murphy2Post Number: 4 Registered: Oct-05 | So what is the consensus.is this a good time to buy, or wait a few more weeks? |
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datman Unregistered guest | James, I am waiting until at least the Christmas shopping season. Christmas and the week or two prior to the Super Bowl are the best times of the year to buy tvs. However, if can't wait any longer it seems this week is a good time to buy the Sony SXRD from Best Buy. They have the 60" on sale for $300 of MSRP, $4,699, with 26-month 0% financing. Even after taxes and an extended warrenty (I'd definitely get that with this new technology tv) you'd only be looking at around ~$200/month. |
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Silver Member Username: FyiDallas, Texas Post Number: 414 Registered: May-05 | You guys are missing the point of a 1080P set. Today, 1080P content is not a requirement for viewing a 1080P image. Any 1080I signal will be converted to 1080P by the set. All the lines of resolution are present in today's 1080I broadcasts. Only the scanning method is different. The 1080P set takes care of that. While it's true that the HDMI inputs of todays 1080P sets are not 1080P content capable, the internal ATSC tuners of these sets will receive and display the content should any network ever decide to broadcast in the 1080P format. This is not likely to happen for many years. As for Blu-Ray, they know that most people don't own 1080P sets anyway. They will have selectable outputs for all HD formats. Those with todays 1080P sets won't be missing anything by selecting the 1080I output of the player. It's just a scanning transition. |
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Bronze Member Username: ImustbecrazyPost Number: 46 Registered: Sep-05 | Hey FYI; I've got a question for you. Are 1080p set truely better than 1080i? Let me explain, the marketing BS would say 1080p is 60 frames per second progressive. 1080i is 60 frames interlaced. Is Progressive scanning relivent? With fixed arrays chips DLP's, LCD's and LoCOS with a fixed light source, TV's no longer scan from top left to bottom right. TV's only change to pixel elements where color change occurred. Please enlighten me? |
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Silver Member Username: FyiDallas, Texas Post Number: 415 Registered: May-05 | "Are 1080p sets truly better than 1080i?" Well, most sets are really 720P these days. A few HD CRT sets are 1080I, but not the DLP, LCD, and LCOS sets. They all take a 1080I signal and scale it to 720P. To answer your question, YES! A 1080P set will display fast action scenes better and look smoother on larger (60" to 71") screens. The truth is that pixels are used to create lines of resolution rather than an electron gun drawing the lines in phosphorus. The lines are still assembled and are the standard for resolution measurement. "Is Progressive scanning relivent?" Most people can't tell the difference between 720P and 1080I, so, folks could question why 1080P would be worth the extra bucks. The real benefit of progressive scan and more lines comes with fast action scenes and displays larger than 50 inches. I'm not saying that 720P doesn't look amazing on a 61 inch screen. It does from the right distance! It just happens to look much smoother and significantly better on a 50 inch display, which is why I chose that size. Samsung went to 1080P on their 67 and 71 inch displays. They don't even offer 720P in those sizes. The bigger the screen, the better the benefit from more progressively scanned lines. How good are your eyes? How close will you be sitting to your set? Do you have to buy the size that fits your existing cabinet? I pitched my old 36" cabinet. A 1080P on a 50 inch display will look spectacular from 4 feet, but I'm not sitting that close. I'm back 10 feet from my 50" so I can tolerate the digital compression artifact from regular Direct TV. Thank goodness they are switching from mpeg2 to mpeg4 next year. I won't even go into standard definition because I don't watch much of it anymore. For those that do, bigger is worse at any upscaled resolution. When I get ready to buy into 1080P I will be going for the 67 to 71 inch display. I think I'll wait a year or two for the prices to fall. Until then my 50" at 720P still knocks my socks off. Discovery HD has begun their "Sunrise Earth" Alaska series and I'm in awe at the exquisite detail and realistic natural beauty that my HL-R5067W is able to reproduce. |
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datman Unregistered guest | FYI, I know that there is no 1080p content today but if I'm going to drop five grand on a tv I want to make sure I can take advantage of the highest resolution in the forseable future. As the maker of products that are likely to provide 1080p content first (Blu Ray and PS3), I would think Sony would want to make products that hasten their adoption. It makes absolutely no sense for Sony not to provide 1080p inputs. If HP and Mitsubishi can do it why can't they? |
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Bronze Member Username: ImustbecrazyPost Number: 47 Registered: Sep-05 | FYI; I guess I'm stupid, but I'm still struggling with the concept. "The truth is that pixels are used to create lines of resolution rather than an electron gun drawing the lines in phosphorus. The lines are still assembled and are the standard for resolution measurement." If you have a grid of 100 x 100 blue pixels and you change 2 to red with a constant light source, then I contend INTERLACED or PROGRESSIVE scanning never occurred. For LCD tv the voltage never changed and the continued to display blue elements. Only two pixel changed voltage and turned to red. Are we saying the tv started changing these pixels from the top of the screen to the bottom which would then give the interlaced/progressive feel? Would it not be smarter and faster just to issue a command to change the 2 elements? Is interlaced/progressive a term based on CRT technology and no longer applies? Are we not manipulating the entire image at once. Of course, I do not consider the source material. As 1080i is incoming is the tv changing the display chips based on the input? No this doesn't work either. Light source is constant. All pixels display constantly. Only the pixels that change color are relevent. |
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Silver Member Username: FyiDallas, Texas Post Number: 417 Registered: May-05 | Well...Sam...I am no scientist or display engineer, so I could be entirely wrong about display formats and their respective methods of operation. I look at display formats of HDTV in the same way that computer display formats are developed and implemented. I'm talking about EGA, VGA, SVGA, XGA, SXGA, and whatever the next major breakthrough in scanning algorithms brings forth. After all, it's a mathematical equation of triggering tiny light reflecting matter such as polarized liquid crystals or pivoting microscopic mirrors that generate the optical illusion of image reproduction. All I know is that there are established standards for motion picture cameras to capture an image and break it down into line resolution formats of electrical pulses or digital 1's and 0's for transmission to a receiving device that will take the algorithm and effectively rebuild the image through the manipulation of colored light. It sounds like an incredibley miraculous task...and it is. Right now, I'm typing on a laptop that has a display capability of 1800 X 1440 lines of resolution from an ATI Mobility Radeon X600 Graphics Adapter. Most laptops have a 1280 X 1024 limit while many others are still 1024 X 768, which is still the basic internet display standard for most web pages. That said, it's still better than 800 X 600 that Windows 3.0 operated within. Many games are still made to operate at that resolution. We've come a long way in display capability. Some day there may be a revolutionary new way to capture an image, transmit it across varying mediums, and reproduce the exact image in real time. Right now I know of no other way than line reproduction. "Are we saying the tv started changing these pixels from the top of the screen to the bottom which would then give the interlaced/progressive feel?" YES! "Would it not be smarter and faster just to issue a command to change the 2 elements?" That's exactly what was accomplished during scanning. The location of the pixels was determined by their place in the mathematical scanning equation. "Are we not manipulating the entire image at once?" YES! At a rate of 60 frames per second! "As 1080i is incoming is the tv changing the display chips based on the input?" The 1080P set is converting the scanning method of the interlaced signal. Instead of odd lines first and even lines next the set will display all lines at once in each frame. "No this doesn't work either. Light source is constant. All pixels display constantly. Only the pixels that change color are relevent." Sure it does! While the white lamp light is constant all pixels are not displayed constantly. The pixels display what they are told too, when they are told to per the line scanning equation. Somebody please jump in here and correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that the line scanning algorithms have carried over from analog electrical pulses to the digital age. |
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Silver Member Username: FyiDallas, Texas Post Number: 418 Registered: May-05 | "It makes absolutely no sense for Sony not to provide 1080p inputs. If HP and Mitsubishi can do it why can't they?" Why didn't Samsung or RCA or Toshiba? Who knows! Perhaps Blu-Rey and PS3 won't output 1080P in the US, either. |
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datman Unregistered guest | Sony announcements have stated that Blu-Ray and PS3 will be able of outputting 1080p. |
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Silver Member Username: FyiDallas, Texas Post Number: 421 Registered: May-05 | Is that a VGA or an HDMI output. Some sets have a VGA port that will accept 1080P. |
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datman Unregistered guest | That I can't answer. They weren't that specific. |
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LemonJoose Unregistered guest | I have been "window shopping" for HDTVs for a few years now, waiting for the right combination of features, resolution, and price to come around. I really thought I was going to end up buying a DLP model this year. But my purchase has been put on hold again now that I have seen the new Sony SXRD sets, which really blow even 1080p DLP out of the water. I would pony up the $4000 if they only had 1080p input capability. Sure, there are no 1080p television signals out there, but $4000 is too much to spend knowing that Bluray/HD-DVD and the Playstation 3 are going to be outputting 1080p signals in the next year or two. It would also be nice to have the higher resolution available if I attach a PC to the set. |
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New member Username: Murphy2Post Number: 5 Registered: Oct-05 | Can someone enlighten as to what exactly is Blue-Ray that keeps getting mentioned? |
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datman Unregistered guest | Blu-Ray is Sony's version of high definition DVD. It is alleged to be capable of outputting a video resolution as high as 1080p. Currently, DVD's only have 480p capability but many DVD players now have the capability of upconverting the signal to 720p or 1080i-- although several DVD player reviews I have read indicate that upconverted signals, especially 1080i, can have grainy, lower picture quality than the lower resolutions. |
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Bronze Member Username: MystroPost Number: 74 Registered: Jan-05 | Good discussion here, As mentioned above, I own a Samsung 61" 1080P. I am not sure how important a 1080P input really is. The majority of all HD content in the distant future is'nt going to have 1080P so why sweat the maybe 1% in the way distant future. Look how long it has taken HD to get this far. Most people can agree there is a huge diffrence on a 480P DVD player over a 480i. Of course technology will never stop evolving so waiting forever for the next improvment seems like a waist of time. The Sammsung 1080P has AWESOME picture quality (if not the best) no matter how technical anyone wants to get about 1080p inputs. The bottom line is this TV format will be ahead of what 98% of the genral public will buy for a long time. |
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datman Unregistered guest | I just spoke with a Sony Sales rep. He confirmed that the SXRD indeed does not have 1080p direct inputs and tried to tell me that neither does any other tv out there-- had to set him straight on that. He also confirmed that PS3 and Blu-Ray will have 1080p output but said that Sony prefers 1080i for fast motion graphics and scenes because it was "better." My BS flag immediately went up but since I am not really tech savy person I didn't argue the point. Just any FYI for everybody. |
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SXRDowner Unregistered guest | Now I talked with Sony yesterday on the phone and they assured me that when the playstation 3 ships that the Sony Grand Wega KDSR 60 will do 1080p into the HDMI interface they said after testing it will not support 1080p over the component video interface. I am a owner of one of the new 60in sets. FYI |
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Silver Member Username: FyiDallas, Texas Post Number: 438 Registered: May-05 | It doesn't matter who you talked to. They are misinformed. The set will not accept 1080P signals. It's made to display true 1080P from a 1080i signal. It will scale every other input format to it's native display resolution of 1080P, but only 1080i content will actually be true 1080P. The specifications are clear about that. They are near the bottom of this pdf file. |
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123dragon* Unregistered guest | Humm a lot of confusion, because the manufactuors are sending out the confusion about 1080p. The article on HDTVexpert is not totally correct. Let me tell you what I know on 1080p, this might clear the cloud, by the way I got a master in image processing. Turth one there is no real 1080p out there on broadcast, not even 1080i at the moment. The best quality broadcast will be out sometime next year which will be 1080i30 (means 1080 interlac with 30 frames per second) and it wouldn't be in MPEG2 it will be in H624 (MPEG4) so safe in bandwidth. Truth two all the 1080p TV outhere right now are not real 1080p. All of them are using high frequency flickring i.e. for 30 frame progessive video, they just show 60 frame of odd and even interlace video, which makes up the 30 frame progresive. Truth three there is no real 1080p reciever. All the 1080p TV out there right now use up boosting of 480i-1080i video signal to 1080p signal. If the source signal is not real 1080p the picture is not 1080p. Truth four there will be 1080p pre-recorded content on blu-ray and HD-DVD. blu-ray has free frame rate of 1080p ie up to 120 fps is possible, where as HD-DVD use up to 1080p30. HD-DVD has the limitation because, it's maximum capacity is lower, and it's not possible to do multiple layering (more the 2 layers), and the reading patten of HD-DVD require higher spin speed to get to higher reading speed which is required in higher frame rate. Truth five HDMI-B (double channel HDMI connection) check out the HDMI page for detail, will support 1080p but most HDMI connection out there right now are HDMI-A (single channel) which can only do up to 1808i. So conclusion is buy a 1080p end of next year when blu-ray, HD-DVD and PS3 are populor, is the way to go. If want to buy it right now get a good 720p is the way to go, since all these 1080p hype 720p are getting very cheap now. |
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Irene Unregistered guest | I would like some serious advice on which 60"-70" TV to buy ---- SONY OR SAMSUNG. I'm not TV electronics literate and need to look at what's best for my money. These are both pretty pricey, the SONY being the most. I've had an expensive 46" SONY for the past 13 years and it's been great. Should I change my brand now? Is it worth it? The $2,000 separating these two TVs is a lot of money and can go toward a great theatre sound and DVD system. What do you think? If you OWN either of these please let me know how happy you are and why. Thanks from Vancouver, Canada. |
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Irene Unregistered guest | I would like some serious advice on which 60"-70" TV to buy ---- SONY OR SAMSUNG. I'm not TV electronics literate and need to look at what's best for my money. These are both pretty pricey, the SONY being the most. I've had an expensive 46" SONY for the past 13 years and it's been great. Should I change my brand now? Is it worth it? The $2,000 separating these two TVs is a lot of money and can go toward a great theatre sound and DVD system. What do you think? If you OWN either of these please let me know how happy you are and why. Thanks from Vancouver, Canada. |
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Irene Unregistered guest | I would like some serious advice on which 60"-70" TV to buy ---- SONY OR SAMSUNG. I'm not TV electronics literate and need to look at what's best for my money. These are both pretty pricey, the SONY being the most. I've had an expensive 46" SONY for the past 13 years and it's been great. Should I change my brand now? Is it worth it? The $2,000 separating these two TVs is a lot of money and can go toward a great theatre sound and DVD system. What do you think? If you OWN either of these please let me know how happy you are and why. Thanks from Vancouver, Canada. |
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Irene Unregistered guest | I would like some serious advice on which 60"-70" TV to buy ---- SONY OR SAMSUNG. I'm not TV electronics literate and need to look at what's best for my money. These are both pretty pricey, the SONY being the most. I've had an expensive 46" SONY for the past 13 years and it's been great. Should I change my brand now? Is it worth it? The $2,000 separating these two TVs is a lot of money and can go toward a great theatre sound and DVD system. What do you think? If you OWN either of these please let me know how happy you are and why. Thanks from Vancouver, Canada. |
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Bronze Member Username: MystroPost Number: 92 Registered: Jan-05 | Get the SAMSUNG. They have been at the top of the DLP format since day one. |
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