|
whichwaytogo Unregistered guest | https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-video/15130.html Read down the subjects on this thread in the Plasma forum. Then read down the subjects and number of responses in this thread. Many more problems in seemingly the same natural online sampling of posters. I am also on the fence and have been reading with interest and some amusement the insult and innuendo TB spews forth and those who take on his battle bait. What he lacks in acumen he makes up for in research as limited as it may be on a forum like this. There are without a doubt many more issues being related in the subject fields with the rear projection DLP and/or LCD technology in this thread. Being on the fence myself this does alarm me and I find it valuble in making my choice if not entirely scientific. |
|
Bronze Member Username: Dlp4mePost Number: 72 Registered: May-05 | "not entirely scientific" This is a big observation! DLP and LCD are hot and heavy in sales, so, the posts are disproportionate. Far fewer Plasma buyers because of price. It's coming down, though. It comes down to personal preference rather than what you read on forums. |
|
Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 417 Registered: Jul-05 | Actually the post count is skewed in favor of RP BUT if you read the subjects on the first 40 lines you will read of more issues by owners here and more "fun" discussion in that forum. I noticed thos right away. As well I did the same with the CRT which has many momre owners then either and the issues were with sets over 7 years old for the most part unlike the DLP LCD RP which had issues mostly on sets from 6 months to 2 years Yes personal preference is indeed the end decider but you must research all you can and understand that all that glitters is not gold. |
|
1000 year old man Unregistered guest | We'd have a lot more "fun" discussion here too were it not for a certain gadfly. I'm sure people would much rather enjoy sharing their experiences and trading tips than dreading to say anything lest they wake the troll waiting under every bridge. But I guess one person's quixotic agenda is more important. And honestly, why should people have any pleasure? I mean, life is incredibly long right? Why not waste as much as possible on spitefulness and antagonism. Not just for one's self, but for others as well. |
|
To Those that say Unregistered guest | Have you noticed that the people that are keeping this attack going on Mr Bong viewpoints are posting under assumed names. As Unregistered guests? |
|
To those that say Unregistered guest | When I buy a TV, I expect at least 5 years of trouble free service from it. I've already had to replace the LAMP on my set which does not give me alot of LONG term faith in the product. I feel the mfg's should either REDUCE the price of the LAMPS down to about $40... (From the current price of $199 to $270+/-) OR either "warranty" the LAMPS for a period of say 5 YEARS from date of purchase. You and I both know that it doesn't cost that much to mfg those LAMPS. At $40 retail, Or even warranting the LAMPS for 5 years they should be able to still make a profit... Are the mfg's in the business of sellling LAMPS, or TV's? (Yes I know they make a profit on each, but $199 to $270 is a rip-off.) If they are advertising a LAMP has a lifespan of say 6,000 hours... they should warranty it for that many hours. PERIOD. It wouldn't be too hard to build in a hour meter, and if the LAMP fails before the rated time it is replaced. (They could use the power led to flash a code that gives the hours used.) If the average user ran the set 3 hours a day, that would be 1,500 days... 365 days per year = 5.479 years. 4 hours per day would be 4.109 years. I wonder why they only warranty the LAMPS for 1 year? |
|
To Those that say Unregistered guest | Corrected TYPO: If the average user ran the set 3 hours a day, that would be 2,000 days.../ 365 days per year = 5.479 years. 4 hours per day would be 4.109 years. I wonder why they only warranty the LAMPS for 1 year? |
|
Bronze Member Username: Dlp4mePost Number: 75 Registered: May-05 | Answered you in the other thread. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-video/159866.html |
|
To those that say Unregistered guest | You did? Regardless If the average user ran the set 3 hours a day, that would be 2,000 days.../ 365 days per year = 5.479 years. 4 hours per day would be 4.109 years. So why they only warranty the LAMPS for only 1 year? Would you be "happy" if an airplane mfg used the same rating system, and the plane crashed killing your wife and baby? That a component rated for 10,000 hours of flight time failed in 500 hours? |
|
Silver Member Username: Dlp4mePost Number: 158 Registered: May-05 | Yup! Sure did! DLP4me! Bronze Member Username: Dlp4me Post Number: 74 Registered: May-05 Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 11:20 am: "You have too much times on your hands" Yet, here you are...for entertainment or informational purposes. I asked you for your make and model twice before. I'm not real sure why you refuse to cough it up. Let's take your first statement. You want 5 years of trouble free service like your old CRT gave you. Well, it's not your old CRT. It's a lamp projector. That's what you bought. A lamp projector will require, you guessed it, lamps. If you didn't know that going in, shame on you. You failed to do your homework. People with front lamp projectors have to lamp up every 1200 hours or so. (different from model to model) They require higher lumen lamps that don't last near as long. I wouldn't have one, but my brother in-law loves his 102 inch screen. He knew what he was getting into and bought a case of lamps. Yours went out in the first year? Or what? There is an hour meter in the service menu of most every RPTV brand. You need your service menu remote code to access it. Shipping can damage a lamp and shorten it's life. Heat is the biggest life killer. These UHP Mercury Gas Arc lamps have fans that must run continually. The fan runs for a minute or so upon power down to properly cool the lamp. A power outage while the set is on can greatly reduce lamp life. People use an uninterrupted power supply in line to prevent this. You don't need a big one. A Belkin 500 for around $75 will allow you to shut off the set and let the fan do it's job during a power outage. No manufacturer warranties their tv's beyond a year. Why would they warranty the lamp beyond that? Listen to yourself, " "warranty" the LAMPS for a period of say 5 YEARS from date of purchase". How totally absurd. It's a freak'n light bulb. If you want an old CRT set, go buy one. These are "Lamp Projectors"! A manufacturer isn't going to cover lamps until consumers think the product matches CRT in life expectancy. Now that said, some after market extended warranties, like Best Buy's, does cover lamps. Most underwriters have seperate lamp warranties, though. It's considered a consumable. Lamp prices will drop, eventually. They will be available in walk-in stores such as BB, CC, Fryes, and others. Right now, each lamp for each brand and model is considered "propriatary" do to market competition of new technology. This will pass with time and we will be flooded with aftermarket lamps for all brands. Here is a good link about lamps and why they cost so much right now. http://www.cherrywood-av.co.uk/guides/Lamps.pdf |
|
To Those that say Unregistered guest | Regardless If the average user ran the set 3 hours a day, that would be 2,000 days.../ 365 days per year = 5.479 years. 4 hours per day would be 4.109 years. So why they only warranty the LAMPS for only 1 year? Would you be "happy" if an airplane mfg used the same rating system, and the plane crashed killing your wife and baby? That a component rated for 10,000 hours of flight time failed in 500 hours? |
|
To Those that say Unregistered guest | TYPO: So why WOULD they only warranty the LAMPS for only 1 year? |
|
Silver Member Username: Dlp4mePost Number: 171 Registered: May-05 | The (half life of lamps) definition is near the top of the link I provided. Set makers are only conveying information from a lamp maker. It's no guarantee. It's at best an estimation. You are frustrated, for sure, but it's not going to change the facts. Panasonic made a big mistake when they printed 10K hours in the manual about a lamp. It was never going to happen. Those lamps haven't and won't even make it to the defined half life point. I still don't know the brand of your DLP. |
|
Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 504 Registered: Jul-05 | Even with half life definitions it makes no sense. 10 hours a day is only 3650 hours in a year....That is way more then most people can watch TV....and way way less then any bulb is rated. At 5 hours a day only 1825 hours used on lamps. Even 5 hours a day is a lot of TV but many power TV watchers most likely average that. I agree the lamp burnout should be a very very rare issue within the first couple years anyway based on manufacturers life claims. |
|
Silver Member Username: Dlp4mePost Number: 175 Registered: May-05 | I'm not really trying defend the lack of QC or the lack of reliability with lamps. I think they should all be perfectly made, perfectly transported, and perfectly used too. That said, they're freak'n light bulbs, not hockey pucks. They take a rough ride or two along their path from creation to consumer. They have on/off cycles. They are subjected to power fluctuations. They have very different housings with different cooling methods. They are made to operate in a wide variety of environments. There are too many variables to guarantee perfect reliability of a light bulb. |
|
To Those that say Unregistered guest | RE: Set makers are only conveying information from a lamp maker. It's no guarantee. It's at best an estimation. So now your off-loading the "rating", or short life to the mfg's of the lamps themselves? Instead of the mfg of the set who contracted to have a lamp last so long? The sets get designed, then bids are put out for parts with a certain SPEC, or RATING.. If those parts fall short, while it is true they were mfg by someone else the mfg should honor them. What are "we" supposed to do as consumers? Are we supposed to contact the mfg's of each part as it goes bad and demand replacement? Or should the mfg do a charge back for any faulty /sub-standard parts? * * * * Read the link. Only half of the parts will deliver the rated time. You better hope and pray that the next airplane you get on doesn't use that rating system! To me 6,000 hours means 6,000 hours. They should all deliver the rated time. That should be a min life you should expect. |
|
Silver Member Username: Dlp4mePost Number: 179 Registered: May-05 | Yes they should, but they won't! You can think whatever you want. It won't change the facts. BTW...the set gets designed around the available lamp technology, not to some set maker's spec. The set maker didn't request the spec of the DMD board or the Digimain board from Texas Instruments. They designed the set around those components. |
|
Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 507 Registered: Jul-05 | Its not the design of the lamp at issue. If they can only get 1200 hours so be it. Claim 3000 hours then. They are screwing up Circuit City and BEst Buys EW profits!!! All of a sudden they have to inckude lamps. People are doing the research and forcing changes. Thats been my message. DON"T BUY UNTIL YOU HAVE ALL THE FACTS, OPINION, AND INFORMAION YOU CAN STAND!!! Its the CLAIMS that are purposly misleading. Then the cost. How is it RCA charges $600 for a lamp? I think they recnetly must have gotten a better deal (LOL) from their supplier as I hear they have been cut in half to $300. |
|
Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 616 Registered: Jul-05 | bump |
|
Gold Member Username: IlluminatorUSA Post Number: 1641 Registered: Apr-05 | RCA=Really Crappy Appliance.... |
|
Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 617 Registered: Jul-05 | indeed |
|
To Those that say Unregistered guest | RE: Its not the design of the lamp at issue. If they can only get 1200 hours so be it. Claim 3000 hours then. They are screwing up Circuit City and BEst Buys EW profits!!! All of a sudden they have to include lamps. People are doing the research and forcing changes. Thats been my message. DON"T BUY UNTIL YOU HAVE ALL THE FACTS, OPINION, AND INFORMATION YOU CAN STAND!!! Its the CLAIMS that are purposely misleading. I agree with you, but if they are only getting 1,200 hours on a lamp, that is how it should be rated. They should rate it as 1,200 hours, NOT 3,000 hours, not 6,000 hours, or 10,000 hours! BTW, 98% of the lamps should reach whatever the rated advertised time, NOT 50% getting to that point as they are now rated. http://www.cherrywood-av.co.uk/guides/Lamps.pdf On the getting the facts before you buy... It should be a case that you don't have to research something to death. The rating should be clearly stated, and the mfg should stand behind the product. One more thing, even if you research something to death.... Someone has to be amongst the first purchasers and they are NOT going to "see" by their research that there IS a problem, until after the purchase. Even if you aren't amongst the first to purchase most normal people don't research, some buying on an impulse buy, or during some type of sale in which you don't have time to analyze everything in detail. |
|
Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 629 Registered: Jul-05 | Those people that have to be the first are usually those with more money then sense and all they care about is prestige. those who spent $10000 for plasmas three or four years ago probably have replaced them. I have no empathy for those who do not reseach then come into these forums screaming and whining. there is plenty of warning here. Not from me. But from actual owners. |
|
To Those that say Unregistered guest | Mr Bong, With all due respect you do need to try to see both sides of an issue and have some, or a little empathy for those that are having problems. Sure it's ok to WARN people, but on the flip side of that the persons that have already bought sets and are coming here asking for advice and help should be directed to such instead of berating their purchase to the 9th degree. For example on the Pany's that are eating lamps... Direct everyone to that info about the petition, so maybe a class action lawsuit can come about to force the mfg's to make better sets. To honor the rated lamp time. To extend the warranty, and or force them to re-design the set(s). On the research aspect, there really should be NO research "needed" besides the various preferences from one type of set to another (Size format, How the picture Looks to them). Longevity should NOT be an issue. Most people "assume" that the current sets are going to give them the same type of service their CRT based sets gave them. Seeing how most people have no access to internal documents that would prove for example the "true" lamp MTBF rated time to be 1,000 hours (or less), when the mfg is rating the lamps at 10,000 hours no-one in their right mind would think the set would need a lamp for several years. 10,000 hours /40 hours a week =250 weeks... about 5 years. In addition I would think most people would flip out seeing how they rate lamps.. 50% reaching the rated time, brightness. On the "research" aspect most will read and research in depth on most big purchases, reading reviews, etc. The problem with that being the reviewer may not be on the "up and up". You and I both know allot of times "reviewers" are bought and paid for. Either in cash, or product. On forums for info, Most normal people don't come here before the purchase to read thru all this crap before a purchase (well some do)... One big reason is on "New" products, there is no "history" to go by, meaning there is no way for normal consumers to know that the lamp on xyz set is going to only last for 1,500 hours... when in fact it has been rated at 10,000 hours by the mfg. There are also not going to be to many sets in circulation on "new" products, so info on these boards is not going to be allot of help in most cases for specific issues. Regardless to your feelings about the above, One thing is sure and I'm sure you would agree is ALL of us regardless of what set we have should raise hell about the short warranty periods, demanding at least a 3 year warranty on the entire set. I'm sure you'd also agree that All owners need to be made aware of the problems for sure, and we all need to stand together demanding better products. (BTW: it's late, so don't nick pick the above info. I know your feelings towards anything except crt based sets.) Try to be more "helpful", when someone is having a problem... Sure they made a bad decision, Try to help them make the most of it. One last thought if nothing in the above strikes a cord with you. The mfg's are NOT going to go back to CRT based sets. The new sets are the wave of the future. They cost almost nothing to mfg in mass, they cost less to ship, and they weigh less making them easier to move, handy when the set does have to go into the shop. CRT sets are big, and heavy... the new sets two girls can pick them up. The service centers love them due to the light weight. If for nothing else I would think the mfg's and the service centers are going to prefer these new sets, over the heavy CRT based sets for the weight reason alone. Look at it like this, all these guys here now are beta testing the next type of set you will be getting 5 years from now. If you can "help' those persons here to effectively complain to the mfg's about issues with the sets themselves and , demand that the broadcasters get off their rear ends and broadcast everything in HD... the set you get 5 years from now will be a nice TV indeed. |
|
To Those that say Unregistered guest | Mr Bong, structure your posts more like this post you made: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-video/159846.html You steer the OP away from the lamp type sets expressing your views, and then offer some advice. BTW: I thought Plasma as it's own set of $$$$$ expensive issues $$$$$$ ??? Costco = good advice. |
|
Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 634 Registered: Jul-05 | I have not read of many specific issues with plasma at all. More theoretical like burn in and half life. Neither of which amazingly seems to be a major issue in the forums. In fact most of the issues I have read deal with those asking how to fix a broken screen! Either a plasma works or not. no moving parts. Rated Half life EXCEEDS CRT rated half life!! The early issues unfortunately have become technological fact. The retailers have a bigger stake and margin in lamp based technology so they perpetuate those earlier issues. However ALL lamp basd TVs are suffering the same complaints beginning with lamp life , Lamp cost, and even lamp availability. I would not buy ANY of the new Tvs at any place but Costco. And Costco is selling record numbers. I believe nearly as many as the elecs retailers. Sometimes people are smart and do the research. Reviewers are usually "bleeding edge" fanatics in everyday clothes, I do not trust reviews past the features and first look. I ONLY trust actual posts from actual owners with regard to daily use.. ALL perspective owners should be made aware of the issues. Thats what I am doing. Some would rather de emphasize those issues or minimize them. They are issues and should result in buyers passing on the technology until the retailers complain to the manufacturers. I agree I may not have the tact in some cases.But I think getting people's ire up. Especially current owners who can write the manufacturers will be better then feeling sorry for them. Yes they are beta testing! But they should not be! The test has been over for a long time. Manufacturers have not fixed the issues. I am grateful to those who spent $15000 on a 50 inch plasma 5 years ago. No harm no foul they can afford it. Those who spent a ton on the first DLPs but there is too much terrible information out there now and people do not need to be supporting this technology allowing manufacturers a pass to continue on their current path. People here are DEFENDING the issues, RATIONALIZING all over the map. Playing right into the manufactuer's hands blinded by a single source of picture quality. If this does no change. Im afraid in 5 years we will be buying disposable $2000 TVs every three years. Thats really what the manufacturers would want, Ya think? |
|
Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 677 Registered: Jul-05 | Lee Phillips |
|
Gold Member Username: IlluminatorUSA Post Number: 1670 Registered: Apr-05 |
Funny, they're the least educated ones of how the technology works, additionally, many factors are involved that would make their equipment fail prematurely (hot room temperatures, kids, faulty power outlets-most of this is never mentioned whether it be from arrogance or ignorance). If you really want a true opinion, contact the manufacturer yourself-not any form of their marketing department. |
|
Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 698 Registered: Jul-05 | >>>>>I ONLY trust actual posts from actual owners with regard to daily use.<<<<< And that is exactly why I will NOT and do not recommend anyone on the fence buy this crap. Actual owners are whining and sigining petitions. Yea h I believe them too...LOL All I do is ask those to read their posts. NOT MINE. I am just directing them where they should go to read posts from REAL owners...not TI employees, not BEst BUY sales dweebs, Not those who send out service manuals,,,,,... |
|
Gold Member Username: IlluminatorUSA Post Number: 1676 Registered: Apr-05 | Nobody is willing to put forth the effort into simply calling the manufacturer and asking for true specs... |
|
New member Username: Lee_gPost Number: 6 Registered: Sep-05 | Tom, re: Your 9/21 time-stamped 1:41pm - not me. As you mentioned somewhere else in one of these threads, if I post, I log on. |
|
Silver Member Username: Tombo777Post Number: 750 Registered: Jul-05 | bump |
|
Silver Member Username: FyiDallas, Texas Post Number: 288 Registered: May-05 | "bump" No...that's your brain tumor protruding from your head! hehe |