DVI or HDMI for TVs without DVI or HDMI
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redrasys Unregistered guest | Is that a lost call? i have 47'' Panasonic 47wx49 rear projection TV, and it does not come with a DVI or HDMI input. I am hearing that some manufacturers sell DVI/HDMI panels that can be added on to the tv. How much would it cost for the add on? Is there a quality difference with the add/on vs. out of the box? |
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FYI Unregistered guest | As long as standard definition is the bulk of the programming, DVI/HDMI is a questionable connection. In many cases a component RGB connection is still the superior method. Some are experiencing video drop out and digital artifacts using DVI/HDMI from set top boxes. Improved quality is not always attained. I have tested both connection methods and I prefer component RGB for my particular set-up. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 397 Registered: Jan-05 | Red, is your TV HD? I didnt realize there were HDTVs without DVI or HDMI inputs?? BTW, if your TV is a standard TV, there is no reason for HDMI or DVI. Component cables are good enough if you dont have HD. When your turn to a HD program, HDMI & DVI are the superior connection...... |
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FYI Unregistered guest | Paul, Your statement, "When you turn to an HD program, HDMI & DVI are the superior connection...", is not always true. There are conversion processes in digital reception as well as analog reception. Otherwise, you would be staring at 1's and 0's on the screen. Also, scaling circuitry has an affect on picture quality. Some digital circuits have bit error correction while in others the bits are lost resulting in digital display fragmentation, freeze frames, video or audio drop-out and other artifacts. The only way to know the best connection for your particular set-up is to try both! |
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Anonymous | I just returned my DVI cable. After hooking up my DVI cable I could not see any difference between the DVI vs the component cables. Seems to be a lot of hype about these cables. My opinion is there a waist of money. |
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FYI Unregistered guest | Here is a link that explains it better than I can. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/products/articles/122868.html ************************************************************************ |
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Anonymous | FYI great link! Thanks for the info. |
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ogbuehi Unregistered guest | Well I was under the impression that the main reason for DVI/HDMI connections was for HDCP. You can't view certain HD content with component. Upscale DVD players won't pass the upconverted signal through the component connection. I've looked at HD signals that have been split and amplified (like in CC or BB) through component connections and the picture looks just as good as the lone plasma with a DVI connection. Video games only put out there HD/progressive scan signals through component cables. I think both are going to be around for awhile. |
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FYI Unregistered guest | "You can't view certain HD content with component. Upscale DVD players won't pass the upconverted signal through the component connection." These statements are false! Component RGB will carry all HD content including upscaled DVD. |
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ogbuehi Unregistered guest | FYI, you give me a model name and number of an upconvert DVD player that will pass the 720p/1080i signal through the component port. I've already tried because I currently have an HD crt samsung that only has the component connections. The only signal I can get from the upconvert signal is 480p. As for the second part, I may have been confused on the HDCP technology. Research tells me so far, that as long as your tv HDCP compliant you will be able to view the content. But I haven't seen anything released that is using this protocol. |
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FYI Unregistered guest | Manufacturers of upscaling DVD players vary in connection type (DVI vs HDMI) and may vary as to whether they offer the scaled signal in analog. I don't see why they would restrict component other than to implement some particular form of copyright protection. I found this quote: "The DVD movie controls the Macrovision: to prevent unauthorized duplication, the movie could turn Macrovision='On', and the 720P and 1080I will be disabled. Consequently, if Macrovision is not requested by the movie, 720P and 1080I signals are available. Search the Internet or read the Momitsu review for detail information." I'm not sure, but I think they mean all outputs would be disabled, DVI/HDMI included. This warrants further investigation! |
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Bronze Member Username: XgrizzlyxPost Number: 85 Registered: Jul-04 | ya but the signal is analog the tv will covert it back to digital. so you will have a digital source, converted to analog thru component, then the tv converts it back to digital.(if you check most rptv's convert signals to 720p, they accept the signals from 420p, 1080i, etc then convert them to 720p  ) with dvi and hdmi it digital to digital. thus in theroy no loss of digital quality thru conversions. (but what the eye can see or can't see is in question.) However digital has been around with firewire, the only thing is there is no copywright protection with it and thus the push by the industry for DVI and HDMI(they don't want true digital replecation of there movies) |
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Bronze Member Username: XgrizzlyxPost Number: 86 Registered: Jul-04 | so red it depends on the native resolution and scaler with your tv. Right? :p |
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FYI Unregistered guest | Grizzly, You need to read the information on the link I provided above. Digital to digital doesn't mean "no loss" in theory or otherwise! There are different conversion processes ocurring that affect picture quality. Also, bit error rates are not correctable with DVI/HDMI, unlike packet corruption in TCP-IP where the bits are re-sent. Analog loss is over-stated as well! Check out the link! What we really need know is if upscaling DVD players transmit the scaled signal on the component outputs or does a copyright circuit block it. |
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xvxvxvx Unregistered guest | Digital to digital doesn't mean "no loss" in theory or otherwise! Of course it does! (At least the time the digital information spends in the original digital environment before any scaling or compression) What are you smoking? Besides this thread is about an HDMI to DVI cable. In this case there is absolutely, positively no digital loss in the cable as long as it's length is kept to a reasonable length. Just an FYI for FYI, analog on the otherhand will degrade 100% of the time it is either transmitted, shaped or amplified via air, land or water. xvxvxvx |
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New member Username: VikingknutPost Number: 9 Registered: Mar-05 | The problem I have with HDMI and DVI is that they make SD look worse. Until SD goes away (or at least down to less than 10%), I won't use them for my STB. I think they work best on the dedicated HD (i.e. upconverting DVDs and the upcoming next-gen HD DVD's). By the way, I have hooked up 3 different brands of HDTV (Samsung, Sony, and Toshiba), and I see only a small improvement on some HD programming (some not even observable doing a digital pause). However, for some reason, the imperfections in compressed HDTV (which pretty much all of us satellite and cable HDTV users receive) gets amplified and looks worse than using the component hookups. Component hookups seem to smooth any imperfections out. I'm sorry, but to my eyes, the limited HD programs that look a tiny bit better using HDMI/DVI (usually only seen up close) is usually dwarfed by the amount of HD programs that HDMI/DVI makes look worse because of the compression imperfections it amplifies. Am I way off or have others experienced the same? |
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FYI Unregistered guest | Todd, I'm right with you on those observations. Like the chinese poet says, "they rolled the technology out too soon." xvxvxvx, I like your posts. I won't argue! You know I meant the conversion and scaling processes after the digital to digital. Smoke'n? Who?...me? lol It's true that analog can be vulnerable, but not to the extent that some digital enthusiasts believe. Loss isn't really a big factor in the home, unless you have a cable system with long runs in your palace. Ingress of foreign signals can be controlled with good quality shielded cables. What hits the circuit boards can still me manicured and messaged into a spectacular picture that rivals most any digital transmission. Of course, I'm old school. I still play vinyl with a diamond stylus when I want to hear rich true fidelity from my Klipschhorns. |
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Bronze Member Username: XgrizzlyxPost Number: 87 Registered: Jul-04 | actual the post is weather or not red can get a panel for his older tv that has a hdmi connector and the quality of it compared to newer tv's with them already installed Todd your threads are the type I like to read, " My eyes did or din't see a difference" I think the main thing about the dvi/hdmi is the copy wright crap, it has nothing to do with quality everything to do with the industry trying to stop illegal copys of there material spreading. Otherwise they would use the firewire to pass digital. ""What we really need know is if upscaling DVD players transmit the scaled signal on the component outputs or does a copyright circuit block it"" Most diffently!!!! But how many times do we need the source scaled The dvd player does it, the tv does it :p crazy It's all crazy!!!! Thanks FYI for the link I will read it I started to yesterday but it was time to go home from work so had to stop... |
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ogbuehi Unregistered guest | Sorry for the late reply. It appears after talk with some manufacturers rep, the reason why you can only view upscaled movie from the dvd player with DVI/HDMI is to prevent copies of a higher resolution of the original material. Pretty much, you ain't gonna find an upscaling dvd player that outputs the hd on the component outputs. Having the source scaled from the dvd player is often a better and cheaper choice, rather than the tv. I've only seen them put the really good scalers (Faroudja etc.) in the very expensive tv's. All these comparisons between HDMI/DVI and component. For now, you will still want both around. |
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Bronze Member Username: Kdog044Post Number: 50 Registered: Feb-05 | ogbuehi, You wanted players that upconvert over component? Zenith DVB318 (must downgrade firmware prior to 07/04) Momitsu DVD-V880N and DVD-V880-DX NeuNeo HVD108 and HVD208 |
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