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Pirate Unregistered guest | I'm thinking of buying an LCD rp, maybe a panasonic 50 inch. I'm still in the thinking stage because of the DLPs by samsung (not sure which way to go). What are your opinions? How about with these brands? I like the design of the panasonic 50lc14. This is my only favor towards each model so far. |
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New member Username: BertaPost Number: 6 Registered: Mar-05 | I would also like to hear opinions. Although, I think that I am pretty set on getting the Sammy 5063W, I also liked the Sony 50WE655. The bestbuy sales guy told me that "action" scenes are better on DLPs. Does this make sense? We are not videophiles, nor are we gamers. Thanks. |
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DLP4me! Unregistered guest | You're new hear, aren't you? Stay far away from Pan..nic!!! Read, read, read! https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-video/121989.html If you're thinking right, you will buy Samsung P5674 DLP. It's by far, the best RPTV on the market! |
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DLP4me1 Unregistered guest | Hi again Roberta, The salesman is making reference to the slower scan rate or refresh rate of LCD's. DLP's have a much faster refresh rate and will display fast action scenes much better. |
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DLP4me! Unregistered guest | I don't like Sony! One died on me in 18 months! |
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New member Username: BertaPost Number: 7 Registered: Mar-05 | Hi DLP, Thanks again for the help. I think I had a pretty knowledgeable sales guy (kid actually). Just checking up on him. Another reason to stick with my Sammy decision. Now if only Bestbuy would stock the P5674! |
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guitars Unregistered guest | One error with the refresh rate topics. LCDs do lack in refresh rates compared to the DLPs. However, an LCD rear projection offers extremely similar results to DLP than an LCD panel. Also, beware of DLP -- this technology works with moving parts... anything than moves will eventually stop moving. Also, the image through DLP is slightly more grainy along the edges you picture, (the edge of objects/figures). I had a Samsung P5674 DLP and exchanged it for a Panasonic 50LC14. I am happier with the panny -- the picture is much more crisp and I am more comfortable with the LCD technology. Plus the cabinet is looks awesome with the matching stand. Anyone else in my boat? |
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LCDfan Unregistered guest | I'm in your boat, haha. I actually have the 43LC14 by Panasonic. The only complaint I have ever found with this tv is the bulb life. This has not been a problem for me. While I was surfing for info before I bought this tv I focused only on that problem... then I looked around at other tv's reviews. It seems plasmas, LCD's, DLP's, CRT's, all of them have problems. So I went with what looked good (every store I went to the picture was amazing on the Panasonic, it never seemed to deviate from outstanding). To people searching for a rp, LCD is a good way to go. DLP is being favoured by sales people, but just ask them what they have at home. You might, like I did, find they own an LCD. There are incentives to selling certain equipment. Just food for thought! Any responses? |
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Anonymous | they say Ray Charles owned a DLP |
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Bronze Member Username: BertaPost Number: 11 Registered: Mar-05 | You have a good point LCDfan. Each technology has its own set of problems. It really boils down to what problems you are willing to live with and what picture looks good to you the consumer. |
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LCDfan Unregistered guest | Absolutely Roberta. I chose the Panny LCD because of it's picture. Aren't we all drawn to these TVs for their pictures? After that it boils down to their cost, cosmetics, and problems. The panasonic 43LC14 has 1) an awesome picture 2) low cost for the quality 3) a beautiful look (with the shelf) 4) limited problems through my research. What do you think. Your looking for a TV now aren't you, the samsung or sony? Where do these fit with the criteria? What other criteria do you consider? Other responses? |
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grfunk Unregistered guest | I have the Sony 42WE655 LCD after having a Samsung DLP for a few weeks. Sony looked better to me. I haven't found the problems on the Internet with LCD like I did with DLP. They say the problems are gone now but I still haven't seen too many posts complaining about the Sony I bought. |
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grfunk Unregistered guest | I have the Sony 42WE655 LCD after having a Samsung DLP for a few weeks. Sony looked better to me. I haven't found the problems on the Internet with LCD like I did with DLP. They say the problems are gone now but I still haven't seen too many posts complaining about the Sony I bought. |
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DLP4me! Unregistered guest | I'm not sure how "guitars" came to his conclusions about rear projections having any faster refresh rates. They are still LCD panels with 21-35 mls rates. The only difference is the projection lens. His theory/statement about moving parts in a DLP, "anything than moves will eventually stop moving" is pure ignorance born probably out of the negative color wheel posts on this forum. The color wheel issue has been successfully addressed with the new "Air Bearing" frictionless wheels. If he thinks the DMD (Digital Micro-mirror-Device) chip will fail he is clearly un-educated in the technology. There is no proof today that the chip will ever fail. Texas Instruments R & D has determined an estimated life of 30+ years based on an impressive and extensive research program that they share through an available publishing. (see link) If he saw grain around any edges it was his lousy signal input. My guess is he has cable, which is the worst and most inconsistant SD signal you can feed a large screen. We all have to watch Standard Def for a while. Grain is non-existant in digital and HD signals. Everyone knows the pixel spacing is more on LCD than on DLP. That's why LCD has the "Screen Door" effect if you look to closely. Now, in contrast to "guitars" moving parts will fail theory, the Liquid Crystal Display (LCD) will eventually alter to an unwatchable state and be unrepairable, however expensively replacable, and therefore not very practical. It's organic matter is altered over time by exposure to heat and light, such as the lamp. The blue will fade away first, then yellowing will ocurr followed by the contrast fading to black. I won't even go into the seperate stuck pixel issue, which warranties won't even cover in the first year. The displays sure look pretty, though. I doubt any LCD will have a picture comparable to new after 10 years, unlike DLP. With DLP it's all done with light and mirrors and the picture will always look the same as the day it was purchased. That's the alluring appeal of DLP. Both will need lamp replacements every few years. Lamp prices will drop eventually. Here is the publication. http://www.dlp.com/dlp_technology/images/dynamic/white_papers/153_Reliability_pa per.pdf ********************************************************************* |
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DLP-Dave Unregistered guest | The only Panny's having lamp problems are the older LC13 models. I agree with you about DLP vs. LCD, DLP4me, but you don't need to scare people off the more recent Panasonic's (DLP or LCD) because of the lamps. |
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DLP4me! Unregistered guest | Time will tell! I'm not crazy about any of the lamp lifetimes. Looks like a new way for HD RPTV makers to make extra cash on a "wear item". |
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Bronze Member Username: BertaPost Number: 12 Registered: Mar-05 | Dear LCDFan, Here is where I am at from a PURELY visual and emotional perspective (with montary consideration for good measure.) 1. I absolutely love the picture quality of the Plasma TV's that I looked at in the store. In addition, the convienence of being able to hang them is cool. Unfortunately, if I want a HD 50" TV, the plasmas are out of the question. If money wasn't an option, then this would be my first choice. 2. I looked at both the Sony 50WE65 (LCD) and the Samsung 5063W and I am torn between the two of them. Both had great picture quaility. The Sony seemed brighter to me, but I don't like the cabinet. I like the cabinet better with the Sammy and frankly the picture is almost equal to the Sony. With the Sammy being more than $600 less than the Sony, that is the way I am leaning. 3. Since I plan on going back into the store again, I will take a look at the Panasonic. |
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guitars Unregistered guest | On the contrary my dear DLP4me. I am somewhat educated in the technologies at hand. If you have an example of something that moves, that is in motion, and does not eventually stop, please share it. This is where I am coming from there. I was only speaking in general terms. Also, I have digital cable through Comcast and an HDTV set-top box. I am using a DVI to HDMI connection to my television. I have made my statements through experience. There was surely more grain with the Samsung DLP I had compared to my current Panasonic LCD. As for the life of each technology. Yes, LCD may dicipate over the years, but I will probably have purchased a new tv by then with possibly some new technology. Also, there are the variables of how much we use our television, it's environment, and climate that will effect the life. Where will you be in 10 years? Looking at the same TV? Who knows. Comments? |
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LampLife Unregistered guest | DLP-Dave! You stated that the Panasonic LC13 series have the lamp life issue. This was one of my questions that I have not really found a good answer too. Do you recall where you found this information? I was told that the LC14 series have corrected the lamp problem by a salesmen, but I'm not sure. |
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DLP-Dave Unregistered guest | I don't really know for sure, but the LC14 series has been out for quite a while now, and I haven't heard any significant # of complaints on the bulb life. The DLP 54 series has also been out for quite a while without any complaints regarding the bulb. |
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New member Username: DxjnortoSaint George, Utah USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Feb-05 | Hi Roberta, My two bits. Buy the Epson LS47P2. It's cheaper and it does more. No moving parts except the lamp cooling fan. The technology has been around the longest. The color is amazing. Let's face it. DLP is false color. I don't care how fast the color wheel spins or how many segments it has. Your eye or your brain does the color combining. Not so with 3LCD. I got mine two weeks ago and I am very pleased. The technology is detailed here: You can get the matching stand, the TV and the shipping included for $2899 from TVAuthority.com I already had a nice stand, so they gave me a four year extended warranty on top of the two year manufacturer's warranty instead. I expect this TV to last longer than that. |
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DLPforme! Unregistered guest | guitars, Your statement, "I was only speaking in general terms" sums up you actual experience fairly well. Your statement, "I have digital cable through Comcast" is exactly what I thought. Digitally transmitted (NTSC analog channels), which is most of the line-up, is converted back to analog at the set top box. Standard def NTSC analog is a degraded signal coming through that set top box. LCD may actually display this degraded signal better, however turning the sharpness down all the way on a DLP will give about the same result. Your statement, "Yes, LCD may dicipate over the years, but I will probably have purchased a new tv by then" is ok if you are a member of the "throw away" society! I want to pop in a new lamp after ten years and enjoy the same quality picture I originally purchased for thousands of dollars. I'll bet my DLP that 720P and 1080I will still be the primary broadcasting standards for over 20 years. All that said, I hope you get many, many years from your LCD. |
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DLP-Dave Unregistered guest | Jerry, Enjoy your Epson. I personally thought the screen door effect on the Epson's was absolutely horrendous, almost as bad as the EDTV plasmas. Other than that it might have been great, but I couldn't get past the fact that the picture had a very visible grid over it. The Sony LCD's are the best of the LCD's to my eyes as far as the screen door effect goes...to the point where it was ALMOST not bothersome for me. |
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DLPforme! Unregistered guest | Jerry, I don't know why you're stuck on that "DLP is false color" crap. We have had this conversation! Allow me to remind you! "Darkest black-level and highest Dynamic Range of all the flat-panels • Closest match to CRT Gamma and primary colors • Perfect color registration for units with a color wheel • High pixel fill factor of 90 percent produces a smooth yet sharp image with no apparent pixelation except close up to the screen • Pixel intensities generated by the digital DMD chip are digitally precise, stable and reproducible • Very fast pixel response times and few motion artifacts." As quoted by Dr. Raymond Soneira Dr. Raymond Soneira is President of DisplayMate Technologies Corporation of Amherst, New Hampshire. He is a research scientist with a career that spans physics, computer science, and television system design. Dr. Soneira obtained his Ph.D. in Physics from Princeton University, spent 5 years as a Long-Term Member of the world famous Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, another 5 years as a Principal Investigator in the Computer Systems Research Laboratory at AT&T Bell Laboratories, and has also designed, tested, and installed color television broadcast equipment for the CBS Television Network Engineering and Development Department. He has authored over 35 research articles in scientific journals in physics and computer science, including Scientific American. |
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DLP-Dave Unregistered guest | He is trying to say that with the DLP, the eye has to blend the colors together because the color wheel is sending them up to the pixel separately. However, since the time between when the blue is sent out and when the red is sent out, for example, is less than .01 seconds given the color wheel speeds, I don't think the eye is able to pick that up. Even a camera isn't able to pick it up, I don't think. At least I have seen plenty of pics that people have taken of their DLP, and the picture looks great. |
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Bronze Member Username: BertaPost Number: 13 Registered: Mar-05 | Well just got back from another visit to BestBuy. They had the following TV's all together" Samsung P5063 Panasonic50LC14 Samsung 5085 RCA HD50LPW162 I sat and watched all 4, then I move the chair around so I could see them from an angle. Here is my line-up. Again, simply from an visual (best picture) viewpoint. 1 & 2. It was pretty close between the RCA and the Sammy 5085. I'm just not sure I could select between the two. In my opinion, both pictures were as good as plasma. But I will probably go with the RCA. At $1000 less, its a great value. It has the HD2+ technology. 3. Sammy 5063 - good picture, but not as good as the above. Looking at it by itself, I would have been satisfied, but when I saw it with the two sets above.......I now would be unhappy. 4. Panasonic - sorry LCDFan.... I personally just didn't think the picture was as good as the others. But that is just my opinion. |
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DLP4me! Unregistered guest | Yea..I hear ya. It's still not "false color". Now...electrons exciting organic matter might be considered false color. Synthetic at best. |
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Anonymous | of course Ray Charles was already blind before he began watching his DLP, so one really cannot blame the TV Single chip DLPs while sometimes causing severe eyestrain, semi-permanent rainbow vision, and moderate headaches - have never been implicated in causing blindness, so far at least so no need to worry |
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DLP4me! Unregistered guest | Anon, You're back! My old adversary returns. Your misguided sarcasm is in extremely poor taste. |
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chinese poet Unregistered guest | nothing beats a well calibrated hitachi crt rptv picture . It has to be calibrated right and put in the right enviroment....E.G low ambient light. I actually have 1 of each..lcd/dlp/crt in various places through out my home.. the rptv is in my home theater and the picture can't be touched by any of those other tv's. plasma and d-ila doesn't supercede it either. of course using it for everyday viewing is not advisable that's why I have the other tv's. |
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chinese poet reply Unregistered guest | You make me want to go and buy each type of TV. Could you send me money? Just kidding. I have a rp LCD -- a panasonic in fact, what type do you have? I have the 50LC14. Just curious. |
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chinese poet Unregistered guest | 60 " cineform/director series hitachi lcd which replaced a 42 " veiwsonic. dlp is a 62"toshiba cinemaseries. and I can't send any money now the theater is undergoing a major expansion,and that will require a new and bigger set . made a deal with the wife,she want's the whole fam in their at any given time (24 people) that requires a bigger hitachi. thank goodness I built an addition onto the house just for the theater and didn't use the basement!! If i have any change maybe I can throw it your way. take care. enjoy that panny!!! sorry!!!! |
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New member Username: DxjnortoSaint George, Utah USA Post Number: 3 Registered: Feb-05 | Well, you need to see my Epson LS47P2 television if you want to talk about the screen door effect. Yes, there is a grid pattern there, but it is not discernible from my viewing position ten feet away. If you look at the grid up close, you notice that the grid is the same color as what the television is displaying. If the TV is displaying red, the grid is red, etc. It's not like there is a gray grid overlaying the picture. The descriptive term "screen door effect" is misleading. Whatever the physics of the color wheel/eye/brain combination, 3LCD is more natural and has more color depth. The picture looks more three dimensional. Read the press releases. 1920x1080 and 6000:1 contrast ratio is already here. I got my JBL EC35 center, E100 towers, E250P sub and E10 surrounds set up yesterday for $1000 including shipping by shopping around on the web. |
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DLP4me! Unregistered guest | Cool! You must be in Home Theater heaven! I remember you now. You shared that link on another thread. The future of both technologies is very bright. xHD3 is next...then 3 chip prism module for RPTV DLP after that. (no more color wheel) Enjoy that Epson! |
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chinese poet Unregistered guest | I have seen that epson, I have repaired 2 of them. I will tell you they calibrate very nicely, if you like the pic out of the box have it calD professionally. they have a nice color duplication circuit and not a bad picture either. but it dont hold a candle to the hitachi cineform directors series crt or lcd. |
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LCD Guy Unregistered guest | Jerry, Thanks for the link. It looks like the new line-up of Sony models have the high-temperature polysilicon or HTPS, just like the Epson. That's good to know, since I recently bought a Sony. I thought I was gonna have to trade it for an Epson. Sounds like a nice TV. |
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New member Username: DxjnortoSaint George, Utah USA Post Number: 4 Registered: Feb-05 | Hi chinese poet, You got my attention! What goes wrong with them? I doubt if there's anyone around here who knows more about calibration than I do. (I live in a small town in the middle of nowhere). What's a good calibration DVD to use, or how do you do it? Thanks, Jerry |
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New member Username: DxjnortoSaint George, Utah USA Post Number: 5 Registered: Feb-05 | DLP4me! wrote: > xHD3 is next...then 3 chip prism module for RPTV DLP after that. (no more color wheel) I'll buy that! Meanwhile, I saved a bundle on what I HOPE proves to be a reliable technology. |
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Bronze Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 22 Registered: Feb-05 | I have owned the Sony 50WE655 for 6 months and like it very much. No problems, great performance. If I had more money to spend at the time I would hae bought either the Hitachi Cineform Ultravision (not jus the straight Ultravision which my Sony outperforms) or a Mitsubishi. One of the things I like bets about the sony is the small base of the TV which gives me more flexibility to put it on whatever stand I choose. Which would never be the stand that comes with these things. Also I called around to all of the authorized repair folks in my area and asked which of these TV's fail the most/least. Sony/Hitachi failed the least and Panasconic/Toshiba failed the most. Also I checked into bulb replacement and Sony's is by far the cheapest. |
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Bronze Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 23 Registered: Feb-05 | Oh and I can't believe how rude some of you have been to each other. Why all the angst between the DLP vs LCD folks. Anyone who is at all well read on these technologies knows that they are both in their infancies and both will fail at a far greater rate than CRT technologies. And as far as having these sets for many years, I never intended to have mine for many years. This television is a stop gap measure to get me into a relatively large screen HDTV while this technology continues to mature. What I have read leads me to believe that these technologies will mature no later than early 2007 and perhaps earlier. If you have kept up you realize that BluRay and HD DVD is coming by late this year and none of the aforementioned TV's will do justice to that technology. So let's all relax and enjoy our favorite technology without putting the other down. We can be informative without being insulting. |
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chinese poet Unregistered guest | Jerry, first of all please accept my apology if you took the "wont hold a candle comment" as a insult. what I was trying to convey is that this new technology has alittle more refinement to take place to get a picture equal to a high end expensive set. It was not meant to insult or degrade your epson,having said that.... man........let me tell you how smart of a consumer you are for buying this instead of a run of the mill lcd or that so ever know imperfected dlp technology. It appears to me you did your homework hats off to that. this technology has potential to be the next big thing in tv revolution because of the success that lcd has shown to date,this is not a reinvention of the wheel.(like dlp colorwheel) which infact becomes coated with fine dust and slows the color image causing a smeared effect ,because with that technology motion adaptivity is not utilized the same way it can be in other applications like lcd.crt. the pulse width in dlp is so small that the color wheel has to be moving perfectly or you will get a smeared image with fast motion on the screen,by the time the motion adaptor catch's the color change ..the wheel is inbetween 2 colors and it cause's that smeared image. your technology has a pulse circuit that will convert the color about 10,000 times faster then any tv....I hear all this talk about "refresh rate " on this post and that is not the only factor that gives you a nice image . it really is the pulse width that counts more then anything else. which leads me to tell you that is what I fixed on these 2 epsons.the epson uses a single chip convertor application. this enables a logitudinal pulse to react and fire a color changer element giving you that smooth color that you are enjoying on your epson, it is more friendly to the human eye. it duplicates a human eye..the eye see's no color and sends the siginal to the brain were we mix color together..that is basically what these engineers studied for this technology to be used ..it is a version of the same pulse that our brain generates to mix color. this technology converts the pulse to a logitudinal wave..basically like sonar.. the problem I encountered was ,the pulse width would die out before hitting the changer and the tv gave off a image like a old rptv would when the green crt was out of convergence,it has a horrible ghosting effect. I have heard excellent things in my field about both this technology and the research that epson did with this.. It was a MAJOR ATTRACTION at ces this year in vegas..I talked with some of the folks who help design and develope this and your in for a wonderful experience with that set. please do not lose sleep over what may happen enjoy that badboy and like I tell everyone do routine maintenance,keep it clean inside dust is it's worst enemy,use air cans to blow it out every 6 months after the warranty is up. buy a service manual and learn how to gain access to the inside.. the manual should have a routine maintenance section.you will not experience full potential of that tv until it is burned in..it will get better as the lens elements have heat exposed to them ... the silicon coating will even out and in around 200 hours that thing will be gleaming at you. as far as the repair issues only freak out if you start seeing a ghosting image occur. I would the go to ovation multimedia and check out the calabration disc and equipment .. I have no idea what your capacity is for doing such things ,so look aroung on their site and at the very least pick up a calibration disc....if your comfortable enough to handle a color analyzer buy one. but you want to stick to routine maintenance, and the disc at the very least. you will be impressed just by using the disc for simple adjustments,that gives you no chance of ruining a beautiful set like that. One wrong move with a color analyzer and your done..the disc makes a impressive difference. take care man!!!!!!!!and fire that puppy up burn that thing in for 200 hours before using the disc 100 hours for crt 200 for lcd.. |
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Bronze Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 24 Registered: Feb-05 | Best calibration disc is the Avia Guide to Home Theater by Ovation. Much easier to use than Digital Video Essentials and better for use with fixed pixel displays. Enjot that Epson Jerry. |
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New member Username: DxjnortoSaint George, Utah USA Post Number: 6 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks friends, Those are just the sorts of things I like to know. Yikes! Avia Pro is $400. It looks like Amazon has AVIA Guide to Home Theater used for $25 though. One thing I DON'T like about my Epson LS47P2 is the setup menu fills up almost the whole screen and you can't move it out of the way so you can see the picture behind it while you are making changes. !!! |
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chinese poet Unregistered guest | jerry, there may also be a setting page for the service menu in the service manual that is available to owners. if so you can calibrate it to a nice point that way without using a analyzer,the repair manual should have all sub directory menus listed . just remember to write down all original settings before changing any values. I have the sub directory menus listed in my manual but this is not a owners version repair manual. try tri-tronics .com they sell repair manuals to the general public and they may also have it on a cd. take care!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: DxjnortoSaint George, Utah USA Post Number: 13 Registered: Feb-05 | Wow this thread died! Chinese Poet, would you please tell me if you know how to access the service menu of my Epson? I'll take your good advice and write down all the factory settings. I'm not even going to touch it until it has a few hundred hours on it, but then I may run a calibration disk. I really should wait until HD DVD becomes affordable to calibrate an HD set, eh? According to Rajeev Mishra, Director of the Home Entertainment Division of Epson America on avsforum.com, the Epson LS47P2 and LS57P2 should be set to Custom1 and color temp set to medium. All sliders should be in the middle for 6500 degree color temperature and a 2.2 gamma curve. Supposedly, this will ensure that RGB color coordinates will be set to match the SMPTE standards that have been developed for studio monitors. Nice if there was something in the box about that, no? |