Sony 42" Grand WEGA HDTV (KDF-42WE655) Samsung 46" DLP HDTV Monitor (HL-P4663W)
I do plan on playing a lot of video games with the set. Which technology would I be better off going with for video games, DLP or LCD? What are the pros and cons of each in regards to video games?
Its a tough choice. Video games tend to look blurry on LCDs because the refresh rate is not as good. However, on DLPs you may experience a slight delay in the games. (When you press a button to jump it will take about 1/3 of a second for it to happen). I have the HLP 4663W and this happens to me. It only happens though when I have the "Internal Mute" option turned "On". But if you turn it off, the sound and whats happening on the screen don't quite match up if you are hearing the sound through a stereo system. If you don't have any kind of stereo and just plan on using the TV speakers than you will have no problems playing games on the Samsung. I hope this helped!
I plan on using my receiver/stereo system. What would be the ideal format for playing video game systems?
I will be playing a lot of video games. I definetly plan to get a new television set real soon, I just do not want to go out and spend 2500 on TV that does not work well with video games. Anybody else have any suggestions or input? I am a begginer to all of this new TV stuff, and I really would like to make the best choice as itll be the TV I use for a long time. Anybody else have a suggestion between the Sammy DLP and the Sony LCD? Thanks.
Thanks again for any input.
Mr Sparks
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I play Xbox on my 50" RCA HDTV DLP. The games look great. There is no delay at all. We play online as well as 4 at a time. I use component cables from the Xbox to the TV. The resolution is DVD quality - 480p. All my games are 480p, though a few 1080i games are available. The picture is excellent.
Read thru the threads, or do a search and you'll start to get an idea which TV's have trouble and which don't with gaming. I've read numerous reports of gaming problems with Samsung DLP, so I never bought a Samsung. On the other hand I've read some good gaming reports on JVC D-ILA.
I run an optical cable from the xbox to my receiver for outstanding Dolby Surround.
We used to Xbox on a 34" Philips HDTV CRT. Very good picture. Never had a burn-in problem.
Keep in mind the TV you buy will look different at home - so make sure you can return it. While most of the new sets, if setup properly with a good feed, look excellent, each has it's own problems. I tweaked my sets using a setup DVD - digital video essentials. It improved the out of the box picture.
Hi, I have the Toshiba DLP and I get no delay either.
Wolfman
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I am looking at a DLP for my home. But I am waiting to see what the new 1080p technology looks like. I currently use a PS2. The only thing that bothers me is this delay thing. My question is...
Is the new DLP technology solving the delay problem?
Do delay problems go away when you use the TV's internal speakers (always)?
Do Toshiba, Mitsubishi, Samsung, etc. all have the same delay problems if they use the same DLP chip?
Any input would help.
Are delay problems
Wolfman
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I am looking at a DLP for my home. But I am waiting to see what the new 1080p technology looks like. I currently use a PS2. The only thing that bothers me is this delay thing. My question is...
Is the new DLP technology solving the delay problem?
Do delay problems go away when you use the TV's internal speakers (always)?
Do Toshiba, Mitsubishi, Samsung, etc. all have the same delay problems if they use the same DLP chip?
Any input would help.
Are delay problems
Mr Sparks
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Wolfman - read the posts above yours. RCA, Toshiba and JVC users are not reporting a delay when gaming. Samsung users seem to have a delay issue. Anyway, by the time 1080p sets arrive things will be different.
Mr Sparks
John Valentine
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The delay on my Samsung only happens if the TV speakers are turned off. To avoid this, I usually just turn the TV volume all the way down while my stereo is on. So if you aren't using a receiver and just the TV speakers, you will not have a delay.
Anonymous
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I believe the video delay can be a problem playing games, regardless of whether the sound is turned off. A very slight delay may be noticed in fast action games where you push a button on the joystick, and the end result on the screen lags somewhat. Perhaps this is due to the video decoder. Others who are more knowledgeable, please chime in.
John Valentine
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What I am saying is that if I have the TV speakers on, there is NO delay at all. The action happens the exact second I press the button like it should. The delay only happens when they are turned off. If anyone here has the HLP4663W, try it and see for yourself. Just turn the volume to 0 and have your receiver on like usual.
Wolfman
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JV, Are you playing hot shots golf or DDR? I think it is the timing sensitive games that people are having problems with. If your fix works on both of those games, I will be much more excited about buying the Sammy. I really like all the inputs in the Samsung, so I'm hoping that there is a definite fix for these games.
John Valentine
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I haven't played the games you mentioned, but I tried it with several other games, a few shooters (Goldeneye, Agent Under fire) and platformers (Mario, Sonic). What I did was I had the "Internal Mute" option turned "Off" (TV speakers are on) and played the games. They worked perfectly. Then I turned the option "On" and right away I noticed the delay on most of the games. Sorry if I'm being redundant, but when I have that option OFF then there is no delay.
I picked up a Sony 42" Grand WEGA HDTV (KDF-42WE655) on Friday at Circuit City for around 2900 (after taxes and ridiculously priced CC coverage warranty for four years).
Anyways, I am awaiting my shipment of component and HDMI cables. I grabbed a set of component cables from my living room to check out the quality of my XBOX playing on the TV set with component, because it did not look to good with regular SVideo connections. Anyways while I did see some imrpovement, I am very disapointed with the quality of the video games playing on this set. While the menus and text is crystal clear, the actual players in the games such as Madden and NBA Live, the edges of them look very choppy and not smooth in the least bit.
On the way I do have the Digital Video Essentials DVD kit so help calibrate my TV hoping that is the issue. I watched a DVD movie on the XBOX and it looked amazing. I cannot judge the cable yet because I am still waiting for HD to be installed.
My question here is, after DVE will these graphics improve do you believe? I find it hard to believe that my 250$ 27' tube Daewoo television produces better video game graphics than this Sony set.
Anybody have any settings suggestions for the XBOX or TV that I should try? Do you guys think the DVE kit will do the job, or is this how games look on this set?
Thank you for your time and responses. After reading this board for a month I decided to go with the Sony, but if video games do not come up with a better picture I may be forced to return this set. I do get a little blur on the fast screen transitions, but I expected that. What I did not expect was the extremley choppy graphics of the characters. Thanks again.
Mr Sparks
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Hey Josh - Do you have the xbox HD adapter with the 3 component cables running to component-in on the TV? Did you set-up your xbox for 480P and widescreen in the xbox menus?
Yes I did. Madden seemed to look better, but NBA Live looked horrible. Like I said the text on the screen and menus were so sharp, smooth and clear, yet the characters on the field had "jagged" like edges, rough and unsmooth.
Any other ideas, or has anybody had problems like this before? It does not make much sense to me seeing as a DVD movie playing out of my XBOX was sensational.
Mr Sparks
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Josh
You say DVD out of the XBox was sensational. The xbox DVD outputs only 480i. 480p looks much better, which your NBA 2005 live is. Given that you are using an xbox hd adapter and you have setup the xbox in the menu's to output 480p, is it possible that the input used on the Sony only does 480i?
Look over your setup carefully and check your HDTV manual as to the resolution cababilites of each input. I'd expect the problem to be somewhere in the setup. I'd be surprised if your Sony was the culprit.
The input is capable of 480p, and I have the menu set for wide screen and 480p and it still seems very pixelated around the edges of players. In fact I feel like madden may have looked a little better via S Video cable which makes absolutly no sense at all. Anything else you can thinkof /suggest?
Thanks a lot
Wolfman
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I got a chance to use a ps2 with a Samsung DLP TV. There was a noticable lag when playing timing sensitive games like Dance Dance Revolution. The video seems to be just slightly behind the game console and the sound. The game wasn't unplayable in "easy" mode. But I can see how it might get more difficult when the mode is more difficult.
As someone mentioned above, when you turn the sound on the TV all the way down, the delay is not as apparent. But it is still there.
It was not a problem at all while playing GT3 A-Spec.
The set I was using was a 43 inch. I'm interested in the performance of the newer HD2+ sets. If anyone has experience (especially with DDR or Hot Shots Golf) please share. Thanks!
hogations
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Josh, 480p causes the 'jaggies' around graphics as it produces twice the resolution. On many multi-platform games the effect is more pronounced. S-video and regular RCA video in is 480i which has a 'blurring' effect that eliminates the jaggies. You get much crisper images with 480p, but 'jaggies' are the side effect (which are amplified with the larger screen).
Wolfman, I had lag with my Xbox to my Samsung DLP when I used an s-video connection with audio through my amp, but when I've switched to component, the lag disappeared.
I am using cheap component cables off ebay (3ft cost about 5 bucks). Would I see much of a differnce if I bought the Monster high end cables?
Mr Sparks
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You can get good component cables from any electronics store. While monster cables are OK, they are over-hyped, over-priced and are not better for it. The most obvious example is monster speaker cable versus a cheap copper lamp cord. Run #12 wire of both and your ear cannot tell the difference. The difference in price is huge. I know a salesman does not have my best interest in mind when he pushes monster cables. I expect argument from those who can gain money from sale of monster cable.
Do you have a suggestion of what I should get for component and a DVItoHDMI wire for my HD TV?
I bought some cheap ones online (I think 5 per component and 15 for the DVIHDMI). Suggested web site or brand?
Thanks.
Mr Sparks
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Sounds like you did get some cheap cables, at least price wise. A different cable may or maynot make a difference, but it's smart to remove that doubt.
Any well constructed cable will be fine, regardless of maker. Check the cable connectors for quality, I prefer gold plated for low resistance. You want a tight connection. Check the cable for thickness compared to others. Yes, it's hard to tell conductor size, you may only get a thicker cable jacket. The braided wire reduces interference. A larger wire size reduces resistance. In an analog signal voltage drop is reduced in larger conductor size. Digital signal are 0 or 1's. Anything other than connector quality and conductor size is sales hocus-pocus.
Maybe I'm blind, but I've used different brands of good quality constructed cables and cannot tell the difference between them. Yes, I even gave the monsters a chance. I returned them as no improvement was noted from the larger price tag.
What other games have you tried out? Most of us are very happy with 480p Xbox. Maybe try out some other games. I don't have LCD. Maybe it's more jagged on action???
Good luck.
Mr Sparks
DLP + COMPUTER
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Samsung DLP 61" playing on a 3.2 Ghz Alienware computer is just amazing, jaw dropping, and way better than console games in my opinion. but that's just me. Cordless mouse and keyboard, writing this post on it right now! wave of the future. especially since we will record SAT and TV to our computers. tech is out there already, actually. so long tivo.... anyway - no delay issue that you have been talking about. I seem to have a resultion problem since I hooked up the new computer... possibly ATI vs Nvidia vid cards. but wanted to chime in.
Monster Cables Hype
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oh, and Mr Sparks... I can understand what you mean by Monster hype - cables are a bit of a sham sometimes... but there IS technology out there that WILL make a difference, all depending on your other equipment. If you have a $4000 pre-amp and a $2000 amp - or KEF speakers vs B&W vs radio shack... that #12 wire is going to make all that head room fall on you lil shizzy. just a different perspective. it should all be relative in the end. I have an all in one yamaha system for $1200 that was the best bang for the buck I have ever purchased. YHT-700 - sounds great and hooked my computer up to that too. the new Monitor Audio / Parasound system is a different story.
No matter what cable you buy, you are going to see this jagged effect. The reason the lesser model TV produced a seemingly better picture is because it's image quality doesn't go beyond what the X Box is capable of. But with your new TV, it's image quality is so good that it ends up showing flaws because the technology is maxed out. If X Box's graphics card had stronger anti-aliasing filters, the lines would appear smoother because it would resample the pixels more than it does now. You're just going to have to suffer until something better comes along that can be on par with the image quality your new TV is capable of.
Anonymous
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Like many others have said, either TV will show negatives. I have gone through 2 Samsung DLP models and returned them partially for this reason and am now with a Sony RPLCD. Though you'll get better overall picture (color) with the Sony RPLCD, it still isn't meant for gaming. I say go with a HDCRT, those look great with games. Oh yeah, and the game I used for this was Resident Evil 4 on the GC & Soul Calibur II on the Xbox. Both which are great looking games aren't pleasing to the eye on either TV, go with a Mitsubishi Diamond or Sony XBR model. CRTs are still the best for gaming. ;-)
If you're expecting to see high end computer gaming from your xbox on an hdtv, you're kidding yourself. The xbox isn't capable of outputing a high enough resolution to take advantage of HDTV. An xbox game uses 480 vertical lines of resolution. Your HDTV is either 720 or 1080 lines of resolution. A computer game is usually played at 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 on a high end system which is 3times the resolution of an Xbox. An xbox in 4:3 mode is only rendering 640x480. I'm not sure what it does in widescreen mode, I know the vertical lines stay at 480 though. Bottom line, the bigger your TV, the worse you Xbox games will look. The reason you think it looks better on your old 27" is because the picture is so small you cannot see the imperfections! It's the same reason analog cable looks like crap on a big HDTV but it looks fine on a little 27". I totally disagree with you on that point though. I upgraded from a high end Sony Wega 27" to a 52" DLP and the Xbox looks much better in widescreen HDTV on the 52" DLP....even with the jaggies.
Anyway, the point is, until a console (maybe xbox2) comes out that is capable of playing at 1280x720, you're not going to have a "perfect" looking game on your HDTV. You're going to see jaggies around all of the hard lines.
You still have to admit that an xbox on an hdtv looks pretty damn good! If you want better, build yourself a high end PC and stop playing the xbox. I personally prefer PC games over Xbox....in fact the only reason I use my xbox anymore is for the hacked media center functionality. I play games on my PC at 1600x1200 and enjoy it much more than xbox.
Mikey - OR
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I would also add that jaggies can be greatly reduced by lowering the sharpness on the monitor. I was not please with my DLP and now it looks far better.
ogbuehi
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I'm a big gamer new to this site and was reading this thread. After much, much research here are some interesting insights I have actually seen. There is a thread on this site with nothing but complaints about the samsung 63 series dlp's. I myself was about to buy one myself because the picture quality that I saw in the stores was good enough for me and it had the important distinction of having 2 digital inputs for high-def content. I was also told that dlp's hanlde fast moving action better than lcd's. This is true if you don't drop the extra coins for the tv. Sony's wf series is evident in that aspect. The slightly more xs can definitely handle fast moving games like halo 2 and ninja gaiden and with very few jaggies. On the jaggies, it doesn't matter which type of hdtv you buy (crt, lcd, dlp etc..), you are going to get them for the same reason Steve denson stated. I have a hi-def crt and I still get jaggies. If you're lucky, the game itself will have an option to soften the picture at the expense of the sharpness (Super Smash bros. Melee and Pikmin 2 for game cube does this.) It'll wind up being personal preference. Playing games on PC will always look better than console, but you can't always hook it up to your newly purchased big screen (samsung and mitsu dlp are the only 2 models that allow you as I have seen). And even if you want true hi-def (1080i) from your computer to your tv, you will have to buy a $400 video card (ati radeon x800 pro). That's alot of money (pc and video card) just to play pc games on the tv. Of course I don't want this to turn nasty as I've seen in other threads so I'm always welcome to hear new information on this topic I haven't been privy to.
Jackson101
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I have the Samsung HLP4663W and when I play Gamecube games in progressive scan I get no delay at all.
Shayan
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Yeah, just to follow up on what Jackson just said. I had that problem with lag. I got a samsung dlp and was experiencing lag. Researching, all i found out was that others ran across this but never mentioned a solution. I ordered component cables from Tokyo and got the option to output my games in progressive scan, and magically, no delay anymore. I'm assuming the progressive scan hightens the refresh rate, but i'm not sure. Only problem is, only if the games support progressive scan do they not experience delay. Jackson, you find any solutions to playing non progressive scan games somehow without the delay?
Shayan
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Like stated before, the reason you see jaggies is because your consoles are not capable of outputting hd signals. Only digital, 480p. I don't think it is simply because the console could not, but also because dvds are not hd either. Unless the console had some sort of upconversion, which still does not make it true hd, but much much closer, you're not going to get close to getting rid of those jaggies.
I believe there are plans for the next generation consoles to support HDdvds. Although i heard a rumor that surprisingly Playstation 3 will not. Can't wait for HD games! :D