New member Username: MathatiasPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-04 | I have a Toshiba SD-5970 and I am taking it back to best buy. This dvd player gives me nothing but problems. It freezes up, does not play dvd-r discs. The remote is slow and does not have good range. I just hate this player! But I am now interested either the Sony DVP-NS975V or the Panasonic DVD-S97S players. They both are the same price at Amazon. Does anybody know which player is the one to buy? PLEASE HELP!! |
Lighthouse Unregistered guest | Hi, Each unit has problems. Check out the Denon DVD-755S Progressive-Scan DVD Player with DVI Output. Better built. $199. @ etronics |
Unregistered guest | Not sure what problems are being referred to. I use the NS975V with my Toshiba 62HM94 DLP for DVDs only. It plays all disks without problems, and has flexible audio/video options. It has true HDMI, not outgoing DVI like Denon. (Sony only provides a junk composite cable.) I have had no problems or unpleasant surprises. It's worth a look. |
Unregistered guest | What are some prices on Sony's DVP-NS975V? Are there any other good HDMI Dvd players? I want something nice but I don't want to burn a new hole in my pocket. |
New member Username: MickNew York, New York Post Number: 2 Registered: Dec-04 | Do any of these player upconvert to 1080i HD ? |
LG Unregistered guest | I just purchased a Toshiba 5970 and I am having a lot of problems wiht it skipping or I get some digital pixilation then it plays again. Is anyone else having this problem? |
dmo Unregistered guest | I just returned the Toshiba 5970 because the Remote has zilch range...otherwise it worked perfectly over the past month.....i'll go with my old coax DVD connection until the Samsung 941 shows up or some other HDMI upconverter that comes WITH cable.... |
Michael L. DelMonico Unregistered guest | I evaluated the Toshiba SD-5970 and had similar problems with skipping, pixilation, and freezing. Did not understand what I was seeing until I read these threads. Thanks all of you. The dvd is being returned to BB for another HDMI if available as I have I Sony WE655. MLD |
New member Username: MathatiasPost Number: 2 Registered: Dec-04 | I returned the 5970 and bought the Denon 1910. I love how it loads and the remote works great. But now I notice that sometimes the black is blotchy at times. Is this because I have a CRT television. I have the Toshiba 57H84 model. Could somebody please help me find a dvd player that will work with this tv. It does not have to be a hdmi player. Just something that gets a good picture and the sound has to be as good as the Denon. Should I try using component connection? Thanks for the help. |
Michael L. DelMonico Unregistered guest | I would like to hookup a samsung dvd-hd841 player to my sony we655 with an hdmi/dvi cable. Do I need to run audios from the samsung to the sony? |
Pete T. Unregistered guest | The best player for the money is the Panasonic S97S the up conversion to 1080i is great. I had and tested the SONY NS975V, TOSHIBA SD-5970, DENON 1910, and SAMSUNG 841. The Panasonic blows these other players away looks as good as HD NET movies. The other players will smooth out the picture at 1080i but nothing like the Panasonic. Im using the monster 400 HDMI cable, low end cables will not give you the same picture quality. I compared the low end cable and monster 400 and you can see the difference. I use my panasonic in the user mode for the best picture. The other modes add to much contrast, brightness, and sharpness. Which will add grain to the picture. Im using a Mitsubishi DLP 62525. The Panasonic is a great upconversion player for the money and it works. Check out the specs. The Panasonic has the best specs. |
khuenink Unregistered guest | My 5970 is a piee of garbage! Does not want to play about 1/4 of my DVD's. Remote is puree junk. My HDMI output just quit working after 5 weeks!!! Will Best Buy take this back after 5 weeks? My wife threw out the box!!!!!!!! |
New member Username: MathatiasPost Number: 5 Registered: Dec-04 | How is the sound on the Panasonic s97s? The Denon 1910 get's great sound using the Burr Brown. Just wondering if the Panasonic will do the same? |
John F. Unregistered guest | I am also having problems with the Toshiba 5970. Both the remote and the buttons on the player are very slow to respond. I sometimes have to hit the open/close button 3-4 times before the tray will actually open. I plan to return it to BB and consider the other HDMI DVD options available. I actually like the picture quality after its running (contrary to others posting here), I just don't like the controls. |
Christopher B Unregistered guest | The SD-5970 is being "recalled" by Toshiba. Check it out under customer support, then updates and notices on their web site. www.tacp.toshiba.com |
Anonymous | "upconverting" is a largely a myth, and its precisely why TOSHIBA AND NEC just dropped 500 million dollars developing a (REAL) HI DEFINITION DVD system Same with Sony and Blue-ray |
New member Username: MathatiasPost Number: 6 Registered: Dec-04 | Does anybody have anymore info on the Panasonic S97S? |
New member Username: ZacharytPost Number: 7 Registered: Jan-05 | Is upconverting REALLY a myth? I mean, I know it won't even come close to HD, butdoes upconverting actually improve PQ over a non converting player? |
Jimbo in Dallas Unregistered guest | Christopher B, The Toshiba SD-5960 was recalled and replaced by the SD-5970. That's old news. I see no recall on the SD-5970. |
Bronze Member Username: RlschneckPost Number: 68 Registered: Apr-04 | Pete T. you know that the TV that you have uses the 720p format? why would you want to use a DVD player that upconverts to a different format than your TV's native format? |
New member Username: WrenchPost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-05 | FYI DO NOT Purchase the Toshiba SD-5970. Piece of CRAP. I purchased the DVD Player at Best Buy. Brought it home, connected to my Sony HD LCD TV. Used the HDMI/DVI Monster Connection. Looks great, sounds great and yes the remote was sluggish at times. I was really happy about the qualtiy of picture it gave. Set it up with the 1080i resolution. But then I noticed if you played DVD that has a little scratch or fingerprints on the disk, the Toshiba will not play the disc. At first I thought it was just a bad disk, right??. Wrong! I took the disk downstairs, played it on my 4 year old Toshiba DVD player and it worked fine. So guys don't waste your time on the 5970. |
Bronze Member Username: RuthenryWoodhaven, New York USA Post Number: 18 Registered: Sep-04 | My TV is a Sony KDF-60XBR950.I purchased the DVD Player DENON 2910 and I got the "perfect solution". |
BobbyO Unregistered guest | I'm in the process of finding a DVD player to go with my future front projector (Panasonic AE-700) which has a resolution of 1280x720 (1920x1080 with compression). Do I need an upconverting DVD player? If not, are there any non-upconverting units that have HDMI or DVI outputs? Thanks- |
New member Username: Markb42Orlando, FL United States Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-05 | I just purchased the Sony DVP-NS975V and I love the HDMI picture! It is a bit slow in start-up - you can't press the power button, them immediately the open/close button - it shuts down. It's a minor inconvenience, but you have to wait for the display to say "no disc" before hittomg the open/close button. The only headache I have had has been on two separate rented DVDs - the player suddenly gets no signal and shuts down in the middle of the movie. Thought it might be a bad spot on the disc, but I can power up the player and restart the movie using scene selection and it plays through the same scene without a problem! I don't know if this is a known glitch or if the unit may need to go back.... any ideas??? |
New member Username: MathatiasPost Number: 7 Registered: Dec-04 | I just ordered the Sony NS975V. I like how it can play SACD. Plus if my PS2 can play better than the 5970 or Denon 1910 than I am going with a Sony player. I tried the Denon 1910 and there was a lot of black crunch and macroblocking. I will say the 5970 did not have any of the macroblocking but the cd play back is not so good. The specs on the Sony looks like it will play back regular cd's with better quality than even the Denon 1910. I hear this is a good unit for HDMI. |
New member Username: ZacharytPost Number: 9 Registered: Jan-05 | Where did you here that your PS2 can play better that the 5970 or Denon 1910? |
New member Username: WrenchPost Number: 3 Registered: Jan-05 | If he uses the PS2 for watching DVD movies, hes in for a big shock. That PS2 is only meant for one thing...GAMES!! The laser on the PS2 is not meant for movies or disk that constantly spins for 3 or more hours. If you keep watching movies on your PS2, then your pretty-little PS2 laser will not read the disc any longer. Say good-bye to you PS2. |
New member Username: MathatiasPost Number: 8 Registered: Dec-04 | I have been playing movies and games with my PS2 for 4 years and no problems as of yet. I use the optical out to my Yamaha rxv-1500 receiver and I get a great surround sound. But now I have this 57 inch and I want a good HDMI dvd player. I should be getting the Sony 975V Wednesday. My PS2 unit played better than the 5970 and the Denon 1910. The Denon had all this black crunch and macroblocking. The 5970 would skip and would not play any of my dvd-r. The PS2 played everything great. If my Sony 975v don't look any better than I will just use the PS2. |
Andrew S Unregistered guest | I too am looking for an hdmi dvd player. It seems from these postings that the sony and panasonic are coming out on top. LG has a new hdmi player, has anyone heard anything about it? I have a sony rear projection tv, and am very happy with it. But i cannot decide between the panasonic and the sony. |
New member Username: MathatiasPost Number: 9 Registered: Dec-04 | I just received my Sony 975V. Wow what a improvement it makes on my tv. I love this player! Plus it plays all my dvd-r's and SACD disks. It's worth every penny. |
Bronze Member Username: RuthenryWoodhaven, New York USA Post Number: 19 Registered: Sep-04 | Andrew S. Read the specifications on Denon 2910.. Good Luck. |
Unregistered guest | I need a DVD player for testing in our lab with HDMI and HDCP that sends the audio over the HDMI output. Any suggestions? |
DLP man Unregistered guest | Mike, Look at the Denon 2910, 3910 and/or 5910 |
Unregistered guest | Thanks DLP. I'll check it out. I have been told by our HDMI testing house that we could also use Sony DVP-NS975V" or "Pioneer DV-59AVi, in case anyone else out there would like the same |
HD Fan Unregistered guest | When it comes to an affordable HDMI DVD player, it seems like the Panasonic S97S is the winner. However, I've been trying to buy it off the shelf but no such luck. I live in Burbank, CA and tried every single electronics store but they don't carry it. Fry's Electronics is the only one who carries it but it costs $100 more than buying it online. Online I've seen in from $269 to $299. Question: Have you all bought it online or is there a store that carries it besides Fry's but cheaper? |
New member Username: CanjPost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-05 | I too had the Toshiba, and had all kinds of problems. I returned it and bought the Panasonic S97S, and it is excellent. I have had absolutely no problems whatsoever; it works flawlessly. Fantastic picture via the HDMI (best when set to output 720P, IMO). The player also has all kinds of neat and practical features. I especially like the dialog enhancer and user adjustable picture controls to mention just a few. It also comes with an HDMI cable. Overall, it is a great player; well worth the price (I paid $279 in New Jersey) |
New member Username: MathatiasPost Number: 10 Registered: Dec-04 | My Sony 975V has been awesome! I did not want to spend over $300 because of future HD dvd. Plus the Sony plays SACD which is very cool! I have played all my dvd-r with no problems. I rented some movies that had some very nasty scratches and it played them like the disk was new. The remote works fast and at a long range away. I paid $299 at Crutchfield but www.macmall.com has it for $239 with free shipping. My friend checked mine out and just bought his at macmall. I can't say enough about this player it kills the 5970. You really get what you pay for. |
HD Fan Unregistered guest | Does the Sony 975V come with an HDMI cable? You see, now you've got my wheels turning. |
Bronze Member Username: MathatiasPost Number: 11 Registered: Dec-04 | No it does not come with a hdmi cable. The cables that come with the Panasonic, Samsung, and Toshiba are junk cables. My friend works at Best Buy and he says you don't need to buy a $120 Monster cable. You can get a well made cable that is better than the Monster for 1/4 the cost at http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/DVI-hdmi_cables.html I use the Ram Electronics REV 2 hdmi cable. It's a very well made thick cable. I only paid $50 for it too :-) |
HD fan Unregistered guest | Thanks for the info Matt. Now, it seems like the trend is to buy everything online, isn't it? It's a lot cheaper, that's for sure! |
Bronze Member Username: MathatiasPost Number: 12 Registered: Dec-04 | Yes it's cheaper to buy online and you can find more quality products online as well. Really Best Buy carries a lot of cheap lower end stuff. You can find high end products online and at a great price. People that sell things online don't have the overhead costs. Like my Yamaha RX-V1500 THX receiver. My local stereo shoppe which sells high end products like Phase Technology, Yamaha, B&W. They sell my receiver for $800. I bought it online for $550 shipped. What a great deal! Granted I did not buy my Phase Technology speakers online because of shipping costs. But everything else I bought online. |
tt2005 Unregistered guest | Which Samsung do we refer to? I've Samsung HD941, manufactured October 2004. It produces awesome pictures; however, I've seen some screen flickers from time to time. Please advise which one to buy; I've noticed the following: samsung hd941 - screen flicker, awesome picture and the remote is great/easy to use pansonic s97 - very confusing when changing 720p to 1080i; has to press "display" button not "setup" or something make more sense; have not tried to hook with my projector (panasonic 700) sony ns975v - have not tried yet |
Unregistered guest | I have a Denon dvd-2910,brand new in box for sale...I wanted a dvd-r, but received this instead..Unopened, and for sale....519.00+ 17.00 to ship in the states....Check around, guaranteed lowest price... R |
HD Detective Unregistered guest | I ordered the Panasonic s97s online from Big On Digital a couple of days ago and called back today to check on the status of my order. They told me they'll credit me back because they're not restocking this item anymore. H&B Photo has it out of stock and so does Amazon. There's something fishy going on with this DVD player because you cannot get it anywhere on the net. When you Google "Panasonic s97s" all the links lead either to H&B or Amazon and they've had this item out of stock for a while. When you go to Panasonics website, they don't even have a picture of this item on their own website. I think this item is about to be discontinued. Does anyone know what's going on? |
Bronze Member Username: MathatiasPost Number: 14 Registered: Dec-04 | Well I went to the Stereo Shoppe after work today which is always a bad thing to do. And now I am sending back the Sony 975V. Yamaha just released the new DVD-S2500. They had a display model to play around with. But it won't be able to buy for a couple of weeks. This thing is awesome! It plays SACD and DVD audio disks. The picture is perfect. And the build quality blows the Sony away. But the price is not cheap at $700. But I want this player to compliment my Yamaha RX-V1500 receiver. I am going to use this unit as a dvd and cd player. It really is worth the money. This player has the hdmi and dvi outputs which is what I wanted. Here is the link if you would like to check it out http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/DVD_CD/DVDS2500.htm I will say for $300 the Sony 975V is a great dvd player. If your in that kind of price range I highly recommend this unit. |
Anonymous | actual HI DEF dvd players are on the way, big manufacturers are gearing up for that |
Bronze Member Username: MathatiasPost Number: 15 Registered: Dec-04 | I can't wait to replace all my dvd's with hi def. That's going to be about as much fun as it was replacing VHS with Dvd's. |
Bronze Member Username: RuthenryWoodhaven, New York USA Post Number: 20 Registered: Sep-04 | Matt: Try DVD Player Denon 2910 |
New member Username: MickNew York, New York Post Number: 6 Registered: Dec-04 | Gentlemen what are your thoughts on the Denon2910 and the Yamaha S2500. Which would you consider to be the better purchase? |
Bronze Member Username: MathatiasPost Number: 16 Registered: Dec-04 | I think Denon and Yamaha are neck to neck. You can't go wrong with either one. I just like components to match so I am buying the S2500. |
LJ Unregistered guest | Matt, the Denon 2910 has both DVI and HDMI outputs, I don't see that on the Yamaha. By the way, Denon just raised the price to their suppliers for reorder of the 2910 by $200 as of January 1, 2005. Apparently since their next model up, the 3910 is rather pricey, they realized that they could boost the price of this more affordable model. Anyone looking to buy one should find a dealer with them already in stock or you'll pay the increase. |
New member Username: Cobra075York, PA USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Feb-05 | I too, have searched the web with no luck in finding a retailer who carries the Panasonic S97S. I emailed Panasonic Support Center asking why and how I can purchase the Panasonic S97S. Panasonic advised to contact Soundcenter.net and provided this telephone number: (800) 530-7227. I called, they had the Panasonic S97S (Brand New) in stock for $279.00 + $10.00 S/H. They shipped it that day and I should have on Monday, February 7, 2005 per the UPS Tracking Number they provided. Soundcenter.net stated the Panasonic S97S is a "Class-A" DVD Player and that is why normal retail stores do not carry it. Stupid me, I did not ask what a "Class-A" Player is, guess I just happy they had them in stock at a reasonable price. Just thought I'd pass this along for anybody who is interested in the Panasonic S97S. |
New member Username: Cobra075York, PA USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Feb-05 | I too, have searched the web with no luck in finding a retailer who carries the Panasonic S97S. I emailed Panasonic Support Center asking why and how I can purchase the Panasonic S97S. Panasonic advised to contact Soundcenter.net and provided this telephone number: (800) 530-7227. I called, they had the Panasonic S97S (Brand New) in stock for $279.00 + $10.00 S/H. They shipped it that day and I should have on Monday, February 7, 2005 per the UPS Tracking Number they provided. Soundcenter.net stated the Panasonic S97S is a "Class-A" DVD Player and that is why normal retail stores do not carry it. Stupid me, I did not ask what a "Class-A" Player is, guess I just happy they had them in stock at a reasonable price. Just thought I'd pass this along for anybody who is interested in the Panasonic S97S. |
New member Username: Ha76Post Number: 1 Registered: Feb-05 | I purchased the Toshiba 5960 for $150. and while the picture is pretty it tends to stall during play and fast forward and the remote must be pointed directly at the device in order to work. Toshiba told me to ship the player to them and they would replace it with the 5970 but after reading these reviews I think I will return it. Does upscaling DVDs with HDMI make a differance on projection TVs. I have the Sony KP-51ws520. |
zapD Unregistered guest | LG DVD player with HDMI Inputs http://reviews.cnet.com/LG_DVB418___DVD_player/4507-6473_7-31282004.html?tag=tab I should of bought this at the time of purchase with my TV, it is not available at any circuit city or bestbuy within a 300 mile range of me. Los Angeles and Internet warehouses are completely empty too. |
Anonymous | 975 is the way to go... |
New member Username: WrenchPost Number: 6 Registered: Jan-05 | Hector, if you have a Sony Projection TV then my suggestion would be to get the Sony DVP NS975V. |
Anonymous | just bought my S97S from www.onecall.com since they had it in-stock. They must have gotten them in over the weekend because last week they were out. Pricing with their discount was $269 + shipping. Don't let the higher price of $299 fool you while the deal's going on..Thought I'd pass this on as I have been looking for a unit available for some time now. |
Matt D. Unregistered guest | I just purchased my Toshiba 5970 over the weekend at BB with the expensive HDMI/DVI Monster Cable conversion cable for our Mitsubishi 55315. We rented AVP from Blockbuster and upconverted it to 1080i and I guess that the picture looked improved. What are the key indicators for an upconverted picture to really tell that this thing is working or not? I also have real issues with the response of the 5970 as when I tried to retrieve the movie from the player the following day,the disc tray would not open unless you held the open/close button down for more than 3 seconds and that only happened after I cycled the power button a couple of times. Any good pointers on what I should be looking for on an "upconverted" signal would be appreciated. Thanks. |
New member Username: WrenchPost Number: 7 Registered: Jan-05 | Don't waste your time on the 5970. Its a piece of crap. Bought it from BB. Returned it in a exchange for the same one (thought the first was defective) brought it home. Did the same crap...returned it for a full refund. |
Batto1222 Unregistered guest | Please help...I have tried and tried, does the panasonic s97s have the Faroudja DCDi chip? I have heard yes and no. If you reply can you please tell me the reason you believe yes or no. Thanks You. |
anonon Unregistered guest | The Panasonic S97S does have Faroudha DCDi... it says it on the box and modders have opened up the case to verify that the chip is there... the chip in this player isn't as premium as the coveted Panasonic DVD-RP82 though, but it's still great. The new Panasonic S77S (that's SEVENTY SEVEN), which is coming out this spring also has DCDi. That one's going to be about $50 cheaper than the S97S... http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/ces_2005/product.asp?designate=dvd |
heyguy35 Unregistered guest | i heard if u buy the panny s97s or sony ns975v, you must own a fixed pixel monitor like a dlp, lcd, or a plasma screen. if you owned a rear projection screen (or crt based) monitor, you won't see a major improvement with these hd upconversion dvd players..........is this correct? |
paulbunyan Unregistered guest | are these hd upconversion dvd players worth it? will i see a major improvement from a regular progessive scan dvd player? I owned a mitsubishi 55315 tv using samsung progscan dvd player (that cost me about $99) w/component video connections and it looks alright. can anyone convinced why i should spend over $300 on these hd dvd players..will i see big significance in the pix quality. |
anonon Unregistered guest | the advantage of HDMI is that all the AV signals get wrapped into one cable (instead of, say, the nine you would need for component video and surround sound). that's a plus! but I think in many cases upconversion by the DVD player is kind of a scam... if your TV already can do this, then you don't really need the DVD player to do it, now do you. |
andy goodman Unregistered guest | I am not really sure if upconversion is worthwhile, here is what I do know for sure. HDMI/DVI was created for copyright protection, basically, so us consumers couldn't tape things. Scientifically from what I have read, the extra digital conversion which is avoided with a straight digital cable vs an analogue component cable is no big deal on a reasonable length cable. In fact, if you can ignore the magazines who have a vested interest in promoting the hype for the manufacturers (advertisors) and read some the opinions on other informed sites, you'll notice a few prevailing sentiments. Primarily, on a good ol' crt tube, HDMI can degrade the picture compared to component and alot of people complain about macro blocking and red/green push on better displays. My local high end hifi store which sells the stuff we can only dream about has their best plasmas and DVD players hooked up via component and claim on repeated A-B comparisons, they felt component was cleaner. I recently bought a 30" HD ready crt tube Panasonic for the bedroom and was about to scrap my beautiful Arcam DV78 in favor of one of these cheaper Sony/Panasonics with HDMI you guys are talking about. When I went to Tweeter, not only did the sales guy tell me it wouldn't be a benefit on my tv nor an improvement over the Arcam. I started fiddling around with a few players anyway and its no surprise that these featherweights with the flimsy transports have all kinds of quirky performance issues. I almost felt that it would be a rip off to invest $300 in to one of these things. My advice is this, if you have an expensive display, then you shouldn't be looking a Sony DVP975 or Panasonic S97 anyway. And if a moderate crt display or a regular tube tv, invest in a mid level Marantz, Integra or Rotel around the $300-$500 price point, you'll get a classier player with better than average build, a solid picture and a better warranty (2-3 years). I know some people swear by the difference with a digital cable but then again, people also swear that speaker cables sound different too. Its all in the fun of the hobby. |
New member Username: CanjPost Number: 4 Registered: Jan-05 | Andy, No one was more skeptical of these HDMI players than me. I didn't expect to be able to see a difference, but I was genuinely shocked with the improvement. I have the Sony (Tube set) KV-27HS420 - a very small display too. I also haven't had the slightest performance problem with the S97; it works flawlessly. |
Bronze Member Username: MathatiasPost Number: 17 Registered: Dec-04 | I have a Toshiba 57" CRT and I have seen a major improvement using the Sony 975V. I definitly think HDMI is the way to go. |
scottdune42 Unregistered guest | so matt, i have a mitsubishi 55" CRT, so u do think it's worth $300 to buy these dvd players w/hdmi connections over a $50 progressive scan dvd player using component video connectors. ok..i'm taking your word for it. |
andrew s Unregistered guest | some one mentioned the panasonic s77s will be $50 cheaper. Does that mean it has fewer features? or is not as good? If it is newer, does that mean it will be better? or should i buy the s97 now? i have a sony 53 inch rear projection hdtv with hdmi in. |
Anonymous | Has anybody used Samsung HD 941 (with HDMI out)with sony LCD proj TV. Heard there were some decoding errors with the old HD 831 (with DVI out) ??? How does it compare with other's Panasonic S97?? |
Anonymous | Upconverting DVDs to HDTV resolutions (such as 720p or 1080i) brings a very noticeable improvement. Your typical HDTV set will already upconvert a standard TV signal (640x480i) to its native HDTV resolution. BUT, that is working with only a 640x480i video signal. When the DVD player performs the upconversion, it's working with the native DVD video, which is 720x480p. That's an extra 80 vertical lines to work with, plus it's progressive scan. A good upconversion using the 720x480p DVD source will make you say "WOW!" I've seen the difference, as I perform the same using my HTPC (Home Theater PC, which I built myself,) on my Sony rear projection 61" set. These DVD players are doing the same work as my HTPC, but they are nice and integrated, with a remote control etc., and much less difficult to set up. Personally, I think I'll be buying the Panasonic S77S when it comes out, just for the convenience. (No HTPC to boot up, no Windows to crash, no wireless keyboard and mouse to mess with, and the remote control should be a nice change.) By the way, for those who crave more info, a lot of what I've learned about this stuff has come from AV Science Forum - www.avsforum.com . Enjoy! |
Anonymous | The question is, do these upconverters deliver 720p or 1080i via the component interface? I read a few years back that Hollywood studios have formed agreements that prohibited this. (They're worried about people copying the upconverted video stream, which seems somewhat ridiculous... have they changed their stance on this, or what?) |
Anonymous | The question is, do these upconverters deliver 720p or 1080i via the component interface? I read a few years back that Hollywood studios have formed agreements that prohibited this. (They're worried about people copying the upconverted video stream, which seems somewhat ridiculous... have they changed their stance on this, or what?) |
Anonymous | The question is, do these upconverters deliver 720p or 1080i via the component interface? I read a few years back that Hollywood studios have formed agreements that prohibited this. (They're worried about people copying the upconverted video stream, which seems somewhat ridiculous... have they changed their stance on this, or what?) |
Anonymous | It looks like the Panasonic S97S, at least, will NOT deliver 720p/1080i via component! It's stated on this web page: http://www.outpost.com/product/4286984?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG "720p/1080i Upconversion Yes (via HDMI output only)" So keep your HTPC, if you are using component. As I understand it, you can't do any better at this time! Which is a real shame. |
New member Username: Kdog044Post Number: 7 Registered: Feb-05 | There are a few players that upconvert over component. Zenith DV318 (downgrade firmware) Momitsu V880 and V880N NeuNeo HVD108 and HVD208 |
Anonymous | It been common knowledge for a long time by many videophiles that so-called "upconverting" dvd players are more hype than reality and can often produce more problems than they solve Recently providing additional affirmation to this premise is the recent comments in the just released issue of the magazine THE PERFECT VISION (MARCH/APRIL 2005) on page 36 which states "in spite of the marketing hype, an upconverting DVD player does not (and cannot) increase the real resolution of a DVD player".. and in fact per the article many "introduce artifacts at the higher resolutions" |
New member Username: Kdog044Post Number: 9 Registered: Feb-05 | I don't think anyone is claiming the upconverting players increase the resolution of the player. Where the benefit comes in is that some of the better ones have superior scalers than what are in some displays. It only makes sense to use these to scale the image to the displays native resolution in these cases. |
New member Username: StylrPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-05 | I have the Samsung dvd-HD941 which I love... It is connected by the HDMI* cable and last night, about 1 hour into the dvd, the connection started flashing i.e. signal on signal off (when off it was just a black screen)... I checked the component output and it was fine. I connected the DVI-D cable to the hdmi output and it was fine that way. I tested the HDMI input on the TV and it was fine. Could it be a faulty cable? the only two things I can think of are Faulty cable or some sort of overheating malfunction. Any other ideas? thanks |
Techno Junkie Unregistered guest | I bought the Samsung HD841 from Costco for $99. A real steal I thought, until I started using it. Lots of flicker and jitter even in progressive mode. Another thing I didn't like was the fact that everytime you turned the player back on, you had to re-enable the progressive mode and DTS and Dolby Digital out. I took it back after having it for 2 days. I do NOT recommend it. I believe this is last years's model, so I'm sure the newer models are probably better. It only had DVI output and not HDMI. |
phil1668 Unregistered guest | How about the LG LGDVB418? any comments on this player? |
Bronze Member Username: Chopper414New York, New York Post Number: 53 Registered: Sep-04 | What do you guys think about the Denon 3910 unit? |
Bronze Member Username: DmwileyPost Number: 98 Registered: Feb-05 | If you really want exhaustive info on the perfect DVD player, try this site: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi? I vote for the Panasonic S97S (and I also own the Toshiba 5970). |
New member Username: Lotus1Salt Lake City, UT USA Post Number: 3 Registered: Mar-05 | I purchased the LG HDMI DVD Player 3 days ago (model: LGDVB418) and I cannot be happier. It was only $200, and it will play just about anything (CD's, digital video, VCD's, windows media, Divx, almost all memory cards including my multi-media cards). I have noticed a dramatic difference in quality from 480i. I am a little concerned about the fact that this is the fist LG DVD player I have ever seen or used, but so far, so good. My only issue was having to pay $120 for the HDMI cable by Monster - seems like price gouging to me. LG seems to be a good fit for me, I hope this helps anyone. My tv is a Panasonic 43" LCD (I only wish that I could get tv as clear as DVD's). |
Silver Member Username: DmwileyPost Number: 215 Registered: Feb-05 | The Panasonic S97S unit is outstanding, whether viewed through HDMI or component connections. I also own the Toshiba 5970 so I can do direct comparisons. I wouldn't call the Toshiba a piece of crap. But the Panasonic's picture is much better. I used Digital Video Essentials to calibrate them both. The Panasonic's picture is more detailed and natural to my eye. I realize this is only an opinion, however. |
Silver Member Username: DmwileyPost Number: 216 Registered: Feb-05 | Sorry forgot to mention. For detailed performance comparisons visit this site:http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi |
Anonymous | I think the 5790 is garbage. I bought it at the same time as my 60"Sony. will never step outside the box again. with Sony you know what you get....and its not medocrity! |
TBONE ED Unregistered guest | I totally agree with the reviews on the 5790. It is horrible. The picture sticks and pixels show. I can't really tell much difference in quality than my older progressive scan toshiba. The older one is much more reliable. I am returning it tomorrow. Does component video give close to the same quality picture as DVI or HDMI? |
Unregistered guest | NeuNeo HVD208 HD DVD Player. Has anyone tried this player. |
Unregistered guest | NeuNeo HVD208 HD DVD Player. Has anyone tried this player. |
New member Username: RoaejaPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-05 | I have the Toshiba 5970 HDMI dvd player. I've owned it for a month and haven't noticed any problems, to speak of. I think most of the complainers are either ignorant or working for the competition. The thing YOU have to remember about the Toshiba 5970, is that it comes with a FREE HDMI CABLE! That normally cost $120. This you can deduct from your purchase price. I got mine for $1, that's one dollar folks from Crutchfield. I like the picture and with the HDMI cable, I can connect it to my HDTV plasma tv, to get true HD 1080i picture. Any new technology is going to be weird, but the FREE cable, makes it worth the cost. If nothing else, you can keep the cable, buy a better unit and sell the DVD for a profit. Those other folks are short sighted and idiots. Have you checked your batteries You can pay more for a DVD with HDMI, but not get the value with the free cable, that's 20-50% off the top of the price. Some people are stupid, me I'm thrifty. doc. |
Ryan M Unregistered guest | I'm hoping someone can help me. I'm new to HD and am looking for an HDMI dvd player. Does HDMI provide video alone or does it put out 5.1 audio as well? I'm wondering whether I need an optical or coaxial hookup along with it? |
Bronze Member Username: JbecvarPost Number: 44 Registered: Mar-05 | I have the Denon 3910 and it is amazing. It makes a big difference, because you can customize so much about the picture. Also it has the dvd-a and sacd capabilities, and is excellent with those also. If you can spare the money, get one, or if that's too pricey, go for the 2910. |
Unregistered guest | I have Toshiba 5970 that I use with Sony 55" TV through HDMI. I agree that remote sucks and it responds to any commands way slow. The picture is 80% from Sony 975 model but it's more than twice cheaper in Canada. Sony also doesn't play most of ALL zone dvds that it's supposed to (completely pissed me off), Toshiba does. Returned Denon-1910 'cause it's pretty average product, pretty expensive and fails to excite. Will be waiting for DVD- player/receiver in one box with HDMI. If you know about any models on a horizon just let me know. |
D. Matthew Unregistered guest | All this talk about HDMI giving you a better PQ is BS. I've bought a Panasonic S97S hook it up to my Sony 51WS655 and in some movies you could see a diference in picture, but in most of the movies, specially on older DVDs the picture was worse. I agree with Andy Goodman's theory that it's all hype , so you , and I could spend our heard earned money on all kind of fakes. Just be little patient and wait for the REAL HD DVD players . It will not be long guys , save the money and than you can afford to buy the best . Why waist it, with DVD players that only give you an artificial picture or another words fake picture. I subscribed to all this magazines SOund and Vision , Home Theater etc. , until I realized that beside giving you few crumms of informations they "work" for their advertisers .I swear you will never hear them be critical of the companies that advertise with them , and really kick in the knees anybody that doesn't . It's just my impression, and a very subjective one. |
ben11111 Unregistered guest | I have a Samsung 941 w/HDMI to Sony 55" and have compare it with to non upscaling Player w/component and there is a SIGNIFICANT diffrence in picture quality |
Unregistered guest | Hey guys - technically the reason an HDMI upconverting player should produce a better picture from your DVD player is it directly take the SD digital MPEG streams and convert them digital to HD. So you're avoiding at least one A to D conversion (actually two if you count the one back in your display). The reason results are varied depends on the quality of the conversion. Probably the best result (but expensive) will be using a high quality upconverter like the DVDO iScan HD(+) with an SDI input and a DVD player with an SDI output. But don't expect miracles - DVD will look great but not as good as HDDV and certainlynot as good as HDCAM or your local 1080i/720p digital broadcaster. These digital streams run at more than twice the data rate of a standard DVD's maximum data rate (which is rarely used on commercial DVD's) |
PFC5 Unregistered guest | To Roaeja: If people who bought the Toshiba are stupid because they expected the Toshiba to actually work, then you have redefined stupid. Toshiba has many known issues and they do not even try to solve problems with them. They actually told me I could try calling a local Authorized Toshiba Service Center to get answers to my problems with the SD-5980, but I should not have them try to fix it. They told me they just throw them out if they do not work, and send a new unit. REPAIRING THE UNIT IS NOT COVERED UNDER THE WARRANTY. Here are the problems I had with the SD-5980: 1. HDMI didn't work with my Non-Toshiba DLP. 2. Every DVD I played in it would freeze for 1 second to as long as 5 seconds several times during EVERY movie I tried. 3. It produced artifacts in my "test" DVD Pacific Heights. This DVD is a torture test for displays & players, but my old (sound failing) JVC PS DVD player played it without the artifacts. 4. Hardly any setup controls to control anything. Just the language settings amounted to 1/3 of the choices in the setup. 5. Last but not least. The worst remote I have ever seen or used. You have to hit buttons multiple times just to get a command to be sent. It is not just a matter of pointing it in the right direction, because if I hold the remote perfectly steady on a table pointing directly at the sensor and hit a button, I still have to hit it multiple times. It seems it will not accept an other command within 2-4 seconds of the last command. Are they kidding? It is pretty sad when they cannot even make a remote that works. |
PFC5 Unregistered guest | To Roaeja: One more thing....... That cable that comes with the Toshibas is not worth more than 10 bucks! Monster cables are way overpriced, but they are much better than this cable. There are many places on the net where you can get a much better HDMI cable compared to the included Toshiba cable for about $30.00. Want to buy my cable? I will sell it to you for $75.00. That is $60.00 less than you say it is worth. LOL |
RaveD Unregistered guest | When it comes to digital cables, one cable is not any better than another. It either works or it doesn't. If you can find a $10 HDMI cable that provides consistently clean picture, good for you. The $100 cable won't offer any improvement at all. |
osorio1 Unregistered guest | HI , I've just purchased a CyberHome 655 HD, it has HDMI and suppodsedly upconverts to 720/1080. The picture quality is very good , i have a 30" WS TV and most dvds fit the tv perfectly without stretching but keeps the picture intact. I bought it at WalMart for 89$ i thought the price was good and it comes with HDMI cables, Component cables and also Composite cables. Anyone else tried this one yet? |
Sydney Unregistered guest | Question for anyone: If your TV already upscales any signal to 720p is there a need for an upconversion DVD player? |
RaveD Unregistered guest | Sydney - the answer is ... maybe. Upscaling DVD players cannot create resolution. The DVD is still 480i. The question is, which does a better job at converting that signal to 720p: your TV or the DVD player? The claim is that the upconverting DVD players have an edge because all processing is done in the digital realm straight off the MPEG decoder. But this is really speculation. It is certainly possible that feeding 480i or 480p to your TV will result in just as good a picture as an upconverting DVD player. |
Anonymous | What do you think of the CyberHome unit? |
crash.test.dummy Unregistered guest | i also bought the cyberhome DVD-655 unit from walmart (priced at $89 but charged me $137.00 because of incorrect UPC barcode -- UPC is identical to its 7in portable DVD product). i tried it using my Philips 26" LCD TV via HDMI and the output displays only a few significant improvement compared to its progressive output (i watched 24 season 3). being not satisfied, both on its HDMI output and incorrect UPC/price, i returned it the same day. well, i'm glad i did because i've read later on about poor service and support from cyberhome. i hope they can improve this area. btw, would anyone have an idea on what exactly "film like" output is? is the output quality like watching a live nba/superbowl on tv, or like watching an 8mm movie in a cinema? most DVD players with HDMI says it achieves this "film-like" output quality. thanks. |
New member Username: PinbytePost Number: 2 Registered: May-05 | I've had a Samsung HD-850 for two weeks. It is going back to BB. It would not play DVD+RW. Also, backups I have made do not always play smoothly (I get blocking and pausing/skipping). One does not play at all. Too bad, because I otherwise really liked the player. Especially the EZ View feature. So after reading this thread, I went over to Walmart and got the Cyberhome DVD-655. Again, there are disks that won't play that do play in my two Apex units. Other disks play back with occasional blockiness. Also, the various video scaling functions do not work at all. Display modes like 'Fill', 'Height Fit', 'Fit to screen', do not do anything at all. It is going back. It should be noted though that I do think in each case, the HDMI really makes a difference vs my old analog player. I think I'll try the LG DVB418 next. It does not come with a cable, but you can get them on Ebay for a reasonable price (unlike the $80 that BB wants). Who knew this was going to be so difficult. Ultimately, I want to get something like the Sony RDR-HX715... but it and others like it are just not out yet. |
crash.test.dummy Unregistered guest | "i also bought the cyberhome DVD-655 unit from walmart (priced at $89 but charged me $137.00 because of incorrect UPC barcode -- UPC is identical to its 7in portable DVD product)." fyi: i recently checked the same walmart store where i purchased this DVD player and it already has a new UPC barcode sticker on top of the original one. tip: be sure to scan the item's UPC to check for its price before purchasing, just to make sure you get the unit for only $89. in case you still wanna buy it =) |
Bronze Member Username: RoscoePost Number: 13 Registered: Mar-04 | For those who ask if upconverting in the player makes a difference. For the most part, the video makes no difference, unless one converter is really bad. Where I find the difference is in A/V sync. My Sammie DLP will up convert, but sometimes there is a noticable lag...the sound is ahead of the picture. The repairman told me that the most likely source is that the upconvert process in the TV is slowing down the video slightly. He recommended that I disable some of the TV processing options when that happens (it's rare though) and the video would likely catch up to the audio. Here is my question...If the DVD player did the up-convert, does it output sync'ed A/V (thus solving my problem) or does the audio get out a skosh ahead? |
New member Username: PinbytePost Number: 3 Registered: May-05 | Update! Maybe Samsung HD-850 isn't that bad. Got it to play a DVD+RW today... don't know why it won't play some (that other DVD players will play). But after trying out the junky Cyberhome DVD-655... the Samsung is a no-brainer (and it has a similar remote to my 56" Samsung DLP HD2+ and the great EZ View feature). I have done extensive research and the Denon is too expensive. The Sony is clearly unreliable based on MANY reviews. Toshiba's and Panasonic's don't play DVD+anything. LG DVB418 does not upconvert copy protected material past 420p. What else is there? I am going to keep going with the HD-850 for another 2 weeks and hope there is another alternative before then. My guess is I'll be keeping it for another 6 months or more and then sell it on eBay when something really worthwhile hits the market. I'll still have to play some discs on my old AD-600A (which I was going to sell) because the Samsung has problems. BTW... HDMI is noticably better no matter what anybody says. Go ahead and watch the beginning of Star Wars Episode 4 using analog and look at the shimmering on the edge of the letters as the prologue goes by. Then re-watch under HDMI... shimmering gone... 'nuf said. The bottom line... HDMI is too new. This thread will have to await new models to answer the question: Which HDMI DVD player is better? None are really good enough. The real question will be: Which HDMI HDD+DVD player/recorder with HD tuner under $500.00 is better? (Now I am really in fantasy land.) |
New member Username: PinbytePost Number: 4 Registered: May-05 | In response to Ross D. If you have a Samsung DLP as I do (HLP5674), you will find that the built in audio is a little off sync with the video. I my case, it is the AUDIO that lags the VIDEO (against all intuition and what you were told). When the internal audio is turned off and the DVD analog audio is passed to the stereo, A/V sync issues are not noticable. I think Sammy's video processing is quick enough... it is their audio system that is eff'ed up. Most of my assertions come from using all analog inputs. I will look at the HDMI more closely with the intent of posting the results here. Bottom line... don't look to HDMI to solve A/V sync problems with your set. Use it to simplify hookup and eliminate a large chunk of analog noise that really becomes annoying once you get used to HDMI. |
New member Username: PinbytePost Number: 5 Registered: May-05 | More on Samsung HD-850 HDMI DVD player with HLP5674 DLP TV: It should be noted that when using HDMI, the TV audio from the speakers and the audio out from the DVD player do sync. This is not the case using analog audio inputs. I have finally tested some other aspects of the HD-850 HDMI DVD player including JPEG and MP3 playback. While the quality is good, the user interface is poor. I was hoping that this would be a do-all player, but it was disappointing how slow the JPEG playback was. The only good thing is the thumbail view feature. All in all, this is an excellent basic upconverting player of commercial DVD's. Beyond that it is merely functional. As I require DVD+R/RW playback, I am thinking it is the only reasonably priced HDMI player out there that includes this. As stated before, I am still waiting. I view view the Samsung HD-850 as a decent temporary stand-in for the product I am really seeking. |
Unregistered guest | I'm looking at buying one of the LG upconverting models- either 418, 513, 0r 511. Circuit City has the LDA418, Best Buy has the LDA511, and there's some places online with the 513. Question: what are the implications of the LDA418 not upconverting copy-protected material. Loosely translated, does this mean commercial DVD's won't be upconverted? If that's the case, what's the use of having the player? Finally, any insight on any of these similarly priced models? |
New member Username: PinbytePost Number: 6 Registered: May-05 | In response to Jeremy J. Here is the tidbit from the DVB418 manual (available online at LG's site) that bothered me: For 720p and 1080i resolution, only non-copy protected discs can be played back. If the disc is copy protected, it will be displayed at the 480p resolution. I think the implications of this will depend on your TV. I tried all 3 resolutions with the Samsung HD-850 going into my HLP5674 via HDMI and I did not see any difference. I think this is because the TV does its own upconversion from 480p to 720p. Keeping in mind the DVD itself is 420p anyway, you might not be losing anything if you get the LG DVB418... if your TV will upconvert to its native resolution anyway. It was mostly just annoying to see that tidbit in the manual. The main point is that HDMI is pure digital video and audio. If you have a DLP, LCD, or Plasma TV, that means (I think) that the video will never have to be converted to analog at any step... making it a worthwhile endeavor. Another note on the LG DVB418, it does not come with an HDMI cable. Best Buy's least expensive cable was $80, making the LG too expensive. I later found out you can get an HDMI cable for around $10 on eBay. That brings up another point... you don't have to spend $$$ on a Monster HDMI cable. Since it is pure digital, I am guessing it will either work or not... meaning that a cheap cable will deliver identical quality as an expensive one, so long as it works. I have researched the LDA511 and could not get any info on it (manual not available at LG's site). My Best Buy did not have any in the store. I've never heard of the 513. |
crash.test.dummy Unregistered guest | would it work if: o HDMI cable is connected to the DVD player and HDTV, to produce high quality video, and o digital audio out is connected to the DVD player and home theater to produce high quality sound? do you know any specific brands/models (DVD, HDTV, home theater) where this setup does NOT work? i'm tying to build my home entertainment system and wanted to know if everything will fit as i wanted it to be, even before making the (costly!) purchases. thanks. |
Anonymous | Have used the Panasonic DVD s77 for the past two weeks and have to say that I am VERY satisfied with its performance over the JVC progressive scan that it replaced. Got it for $210 shipped from Amazon - and feel that it is worth every penny both for the picture quality and the sound quality. The unusual thing is that it actually weighs .3 of a pound MORE than the s97s - and you can currently find it in stock whereas the s97s is nowhere to be found. I have compared the specs for both and cannot find a difference (besides the weight)-maybe I am missing something here but my eyes and ears tell me that it is superior to the Denon 1910 that I returned to the Goodguys (severe microblocking and "textured" backgrounds)-on my Hitachi 57s715 Ultravision RPTV- I am recommending it to all my friends and customers- Mike |
Bronze Member Username: Pilot53Post Number: 22 Registered: May-05 | I also have the Panny DVD S77. Found that using HDMI, the picture was bad, with component out, it was much better. Had macroblocking all over it though, no matter how I set it up. I returned it, and got a Sony DVP NS975V. I will see how that works. The Good Guys sales rep said it did not use the Fouroujha (spelling) chip. I hope he is right. Pilot53 |
Unregistered guest | The difference between the panasonic dvd s77 and the s97s is that the s77 does not have dolby prologic 2 decoder built in. I am thinking of purchasing the s77 and $210 is a good price. I am using a rear projection tv. Pliot53, what type of tv are you using. perhaps the macroblocking only occurs on plasmas or dpl's? |
RSF Unregistered guest | Has anyone tried the new Toshiba 5980. I heard its a world different than the 5970??? |
Bronze Member Username: SlinkyPost Number: 27 Registered: Dec-04 | I get macroblocking using HDMI on an S77 into a Pansonic HDTV, rear projection LCD. Absurd. Component looks good. Note, the macroblocking is worse on older DVDs and is probably a result of increasing the existing macroblocking that is already inherent in the DVDs you are viewing. That's part of the problem. |
Jason Hedlund Unregistered guest | I have the LG-418 DVD player with the sony 60XS955 rearprj LCD. I have noticed considerable video lag to the audio from the DVD player in all modes. I have noticed the sound being I would say up to a second ahead of the video. I have the audio going to a DSP-A1 yamaha receiver and the video going through a HDMI cable from radio shack. I tried the video through the receiver as well using the s-cable and still get the lag. Very disappointed. No lag on the tivo. The LG picture itself was good and it does do upconversion on DVDs from blockbuster just to get that straight but only through the HDMI cable!! and the picture is noticeable better after upconversion. The movie I was using when I noticed all this or is most noticeable on was Blade 3. Subway scene with the girl and thereafter. Also noticed it on other movies such as LOR1. hit pause and play again and its fine for awhile. Was going to take the player back today and get another one just to make sure its not the player. The old player a proscan did not do this or if it does its not as noticable but only looked at it through the s-cable (same scene). Had the TV and the LG for about 2 weeks now. Suppose I should try watching through the built in TV audio and then on my old tube as a reference. Unhappy in michigan! Anyone else have this problem? |
TTTT Unregistered guest | Does anyone make a DVD recorder that upconverts? |
Unregistered guest | RSF " Has anyone tried the new Toshiba 5980. I heard its a world different than the 5970???" I just got the Toshiba 5980 a week ago and I have mixed feeling's about it. My main complaint is that I have not been able to get it to produce Dolby Digital sound during playback through my Sony DB-830 receiver. I have a Toshiba 52HM84 DLP widescreen that has the HDMMI input and is the reason I bought the DVD player. The picture reproduction is very good and I have no problems with it freezing up, but as mentioned before it does have a lack of feature control with the remote. Anyway does anyone here have any thought as to why I cannot get Dolby Digital sound from this setup? I have a digital coaxial input from the player to the receiver which was identical as I had from my previous Sony DVD player that worked perfectly? |
New member Username: Guptas4Post Number: 4 Registered: Jun-05 | the Toshiba 5980 has something called HD JPEG which I did not find elsewhare. If you view your pictures from the digital camera they come out phenomenal. I havent seen a better slideshow |
Unregistered guest | Did any one tried OPPO Digital's OPDV971H? Read very good review on projectorcentral.com. Still undecided on upconverting player. |
Unregistered guest | I have the sony KD-30XS955. Anybody can reccomend me a HDMI DVD |
Bronze Member Username: UhphikapPost Number: 17 Registered: Jun-05 | I have the Toshiba 5980 and have been using it for a week, and I think it works just fine. That's not to say that I won't have problems down the line, but it's working fine for me now. |
Unregistered guest | Does anyone have info or a comparison for the Pani S77S and the LG LDA-511. Seems I get good reviews on the Pani but I can get the LG for a little less. BTW i thought the Dif between the S97 and S77 is the the 97 has a Multi disc tray where-as the S77 is the single disc version sans the dolby 2. Anyway.. If anyone has any word on the S77 compared to the 511 please submit... thanks, -Luis |