Question Re: Cable Card
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page| Thread | Last Poster | Posts | Last Post | |
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| Archive through January 13, 2006 | Brian | 100 | ||
| Archive through September 09, 2005 | Jeremy 0415 | 100 | ||
| Archive through July 26, 2005 | Optivity | 100 |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 594 Registered: Mar-05 | Thanks for the update Brian. |
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New member Username: CablegirltechPost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-06 | Cableguy, I want to start some dialog regarding these cable cards. I too work for a cable company, Comcast, here on the west coast. I have been in the industry for years and now am a supervisor. I have my techs telling me about some cable card nightmares and have a lot of good info for Panasonic users but now we are struggling with the new Sony Wega and grand Wega tvs. We are a quam and ads system, the most advanced on the west coast as a matter of fact and all of the levels are perfect hitting the back of the set but they won't load correctly. The OOB locks just fine but the inband info is all zeros. I went out to three homes myself and the levels at the tap are good, c/n is perfect, deltas are good, no ingress etc. The customer had a Sony tech come out and he had the nerve to say the signal was too low. We had 7's and 5's across the board, you and I both know that is just fine. The FCC says we only have to provide 0 at the set but we always do what it takes to get the customer going. The model number on this set is KDF-E42A10. You were mentioning the Q box, what is that? We called Sony and their blanket answer is try at least 5 different cards and different brands. We only carry Motorola, and we tried 8 of them. It recognizes the card and tries to load and then says 'no signal' or something similar to that. When you eject the card, the tv gets picture no problem so it cant be the F-81 on the set either. Do you have any insight? |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 597 Registered: Mar-05 | deanna~ welcome to the discussion. I work for TWC and although cable is cable, operating systems differ between companies so... What I can tell you I check for. The forward data carrier operating range on the SA is spec'd at +15 to -15 dBmV. One of the things you can see on the Sony which I like about their customer access diagnostic is the diagnostic screen for the TV. The SNR levels for the In Band usually anything above 29 and under 36 is good. For the OOB, ours usually stays around 18 to 22. Keep in mind your system may be configured diferently but this is what shows working conditions where I work. The In Band data being the actual channel frequency the TV is tuned to prior to diagnostic, was the tuner locked or unlocked?, and were you on a digital or analog channel? As for the specific model of Sony you listed, there is issue* (in SA CC systems) that Sony is aware of. I don't know if this applies to your system or not because you use Motorola. The Q-box was a reference for earlier model sets, I forget what they call it now, but it's basically the CC interface. Since I don't know a whole great deal about how Motorola interacts with the TV, I don't know what help I can offer. Is there a CP information screen in the CC menu on the Sony with Motorola cards? ~quote~ The customer had the Sony tech come out and he had the nerve to say the signal was too low ~end quote~ Did they indicate exactly what signal they said was too low? What type of signal meter did they use to verify this information? Is there anyway for you to coordinate another visit so both a rep from your company can be there to counter any finger pointing as it occurs? This last suggestion is about the best advice I can offer you, based on my lack of knowledge with Moto CC's. Fill in some of the blanks, and we'll see what we can come up with. I've heard through the grapevine that other systems are having problems with Sony, even some TWC ones, but to be honest other then the errors I've mentioned before, there has never been one we couldn't get working. They might lose some channels after initial installation, which can be corrected by doing a reset through the TV menu until the "interface" can be exchanged, but they do work and quite well after any repairwork done by the manufacturer. I'll await your reply for further speculation  |
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New member Username: CabletoolMidwest Post Number: 6 Registered: Jan-06 | DeanNa- Hey Deanna, I work for Comcast as will in the Midwest. We had a HORRIBLE time getting the Motos to work in our area only to find out it had to do with the cards themselves being on the wrong downstream. Due to a change in our system after months of failed CC installs we realized we couldnt move the map. ( channel map) The CC had the default channel map of our Warehouse. ( or no map since they cant really be hooked up to plant in a warehouse setting) When a hit was sent it did virtually nothing to the card. The most we could get were HD,Music and analog. Our MIS department finally discovered we couldnt move the map. If you changed the Headend information for the card the boxes on the account would receive the hit and remap, the card wouldnt. In any event it was all tied in with billing and rates. ( Im sure this isnt your issue since you can get some to work but are now having issues with Sony) Sonys by us work pretty good. The silver bullet in my area is an INT or Initialization hit. Once our card recieves this ( denoted by a small freezing or pixelation on a digital or HD channel) our channels start to pop in. Until they do all digitals will state as you have seen "NO SIGNAL AVAILABLE" or "NOT SUBSCRIBED" I know different areas have sifferent thoughts on what hit to send to what device. If you can talk someone into sending an INT see how it goes. Also if you are trying different cards try to ensure through dispatch that they are changing that DATA information. If the Data is still the old card it most likley will not work. |
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New member Username: CablegirltechPost Number: 2 Registered: Jan-06 | Cableguy and Cabletool, I changed my username around but this is still from Deanna. I have no idea what type of meter he was using. I am going to try and get him to come back when we are there so we can definately work together on this one but I dont know if they would charge the customer? I hope not. We use an Acterna 1750 stealth for our meters and they do pretty well. I had no idea you had to tune it to a channel before inserting the card? What channel should it be tuned to? Analog or digital? Even the frequency would help because we could look it up on our mux. When these cable cards were launched they just explained it as 'put it in and it works', basically. It has been awful for our techs in some cases because we find things out as we go along, as with all new products. I have some screen pictures of the tv when we were doing this and I wonder if I could attach them to this? I dont know what channel we were on when this was done either. I just want this to work because this customer is so excited with his new tv and I am on a mission. We are having the network techs sweep that leg of the node to make sure it is set up correctly also. aarrrgh. We always send an INT hit to these also but our DAC is advanced enough that we dont have to enter the host id anymore. I am going to get with our dispatch department and have them force the host id on this particular tv to see if that is what the tv wants and the card wants. Do you know what the downstream of these cards are looking at first? is there a way to check? I have to go to work today and I dont want to let this guy down any longer. Thanks, Deanna. |
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Unregistered guest | My cable company (Charter, go figure) keeps telling me that there is "no law by the FCC that requires them to provide a cablecard." Anyone know where I can find this ruling online? |
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Bronze Member Username: CabletoolMidwest Post Number: 11 Registered: Jan-06 | Jerame- Its gotta be in here somehwere. The mandate was for all Cable Companies to carry and support CableCards by july 1st, 2004. http://search.fcc.gov/query.html?qt=cablecard&Submit+search+request.x=0&Submit+s earch+request.y=0&Submit+search+request=Submit&col=fccall+edocs+digest&ht=0&qp=& qs=&qc=&pw=100%25&ws=0&la=en&qm=0&st=1&nh=10&lk=1&rf=0&oq=&rq=0&si=0 cablegirltech- Im not sure how your DAC is getting the host info? We didnt require it for some time but once we fired up or CPMS for conditional access we had to start putting that on the account. I also havent had to put the tv on any particular channel. I usually look for a digital channel such as HD or Music so I can see if the hit went through. The downstream will be different for each area, depending on how many channel maps you guys have. In my area there are 3 different line ups depending on rebuilt status. But again, since the cards cant be hooked to plant they are sent out without any lineup. What we did to test things out on our end is preload a channel map, a correct channel map onto the card with a DCR tv at our headend. We then took that card to the subscribers home ( at this time a sub with a SONY DVR) and popped it in. Flawless. Then we moved the channel map to a different line up and sent a hit. It never changed. Thats how we figured out it wasnt getting the hits sent to it. After that our MIS department were pretty good at checking downstream before I got to the subs home to ensure the fixes they put in place worked. |
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New member Username: CablegirltechPost Number: 3 Registered: Jan-06 | I discovered yesterday that the only reason we were having to put the host info in the computer system was for tracking purposes to track brands of tvs. it was completely unneeded. all of our cable cards have an inventory number associated to it, like the dcts that have GI1945etc. so we put that number into the computer and then send it an INT hit and they work. we have the same lineup here for the entire area since the rebuild so that part is easy. we are still working on this though and it is slow going. deanna. |
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New member Username: NavynowCoronado, California Post Number: 4 Registered: Jan-06 | cableguy/cable tool, I have a CC installed in my Sony KD-34XS955, I get HDTV about 75% of the time, although the upper channels sometimes do not come in when the lowers do. The screen goes black or looses major parts of the picture, or freezes, then goes black for about 30 seconds before getting the signal back. I had had TWC out last week to check the signal, the tech said he got the signal up to -5dB, which was within TWC's standards. Cable tool had posted that the FCC requires 0db at my outlet. My question is who do I talk to to get the signal increased? And since my TV has a build date of Oct 2004 and was a display model, is it possible that it requires an upgrade in the CC reader? My diagnostic screen displays the same thing during good reception and bad. The Out of Band (FDC) SNR(dB)varies from 17 to 21 altough the Status indicates Lock. I have TWC coming out again Tuesday and Sony's help line has given me the number of a local authorized tech to call. Since it is a holiday weekend, I don't believe I'll get ahold of anyone until Tues AM. What are your reccomendations? Thanks. |
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Unregistered guest | Cableguy and anyone else, please advise. Thanks in advance. TV: Sony KDF-E50A10. Issue: Cablevision tech came to install SA-CC, and the SONY TV got stuck on the "firmware upgrade in progress" screen. After more than half hr, tech tried another CC and same thing. He tried a total of 3 CC's, and I ended up settling for the HD cable box instead. He did test the signal and said it was good, not too low and not too high. I called SONY and they said the problem is the CC and that it needs to be preprogramming by Cablevision before plugging in. I asked the tech and he said it doesn't have to. 1) What do you think is the problem? 2) More importantly, does the CC need to be preprogrammed with info before plugging in? 3) Also, when it said "firmware upgrade in progress", is the CC feeding info into the TV, or is the TV getting info from somewhere else through the cable feed? It was hard for me to troubleshoot since the tech couldn't leave a CC, and I can't call SONY back without the CC. In any case, I scheduled for another CC install in 3 days, and hope to get it working. I also hope to get on the phone with SONY while the tech is still there. Hopefully I can get some answers here before then. Thanks again. |
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Unregistered guest | Cable Tool, Thanks for the help! I'm hearing about alot of problems Sony TV owners are having. I have a JCV HD-56G886. Are you, or anyone else for that matter, aware of install problems with JVC TVs? |
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Bronze Member Username: CabletoolMidwest Post Number: 12 Registered: Jan-06 | Mark Milner- I would give them one more chance with the card. It sounds like a typical signal issue, especially since he worked to get you UP TO -5 .. Hate to think of what you were at! Worse case TWC should be able to give you a box at no charge since they are obligated to get that card working. ( we have done it in the past while we were working on the issue) Im not sure how the tech would take to you telling him what the signal should be at, hopefully you will get a different tech. If the tech on tuesday cant isolate the line more to get that signal higher then I would ask him if he could get his supervisor involved. KCKC CORP- Cableguy would know way more about SA cable cards but I believe I heard that the Firmware for the SA's are downloaded in this manner. It looks like as soon as the card is hooked to plant it is presented with new firmware. I think this is why Sony is asking that the card be pre loaded with the new firmware. Your local office may not be able to do this though. Unlike a cable box, the only way to hook up the CC to plant is in a DCR set. There are very few offices that have one of these handy. In any event, if either visit you guys have lined up do not yeild a working cablecard I would send an email or make a phonecall to your local govt. They most likley have someone set up to take cable complaints. These are then forwarded to an agent at the cable company with a service agreement timeline to get the issue resolved. ( and "we cant get it working" isnt an acceptable resolution.) |
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New member Username: EricmcgovernPost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-06 | I have Charter and SA, and had the exact same issue as kckc Corp with my Sony KDF-E42A10. TV works perfect otherwise, Charter tech didn't seem too concerned, just told me "most TV's don't work, MAYBE 30% of the installs actually work". Said most do the exact same thing, get stuck on the firmware. Sounds to me like Charter doesn't have their act together. We tried 2 cable cards, each did the same, we waited for the hour timeout before just giving up. So what are my options? Charter tech indicated the CableCARD standard is just so broken it will never work. I called Sony and they indicated my TV is broken and needs service. It was my understanding that to get the CableCARD logo on your TV you have to send your device to Cable Labs for testing, where they make sure it complies with the spec. If this is the case why do so many people have issues? Is it the cable companies fault? |
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New member Username: CablegirltechPost Number: 4 Registered: Jan-06 | Mark Milner, before you do anything you should find out if the -5dbmv is on a digital channel or an analog channel. Digital channels run lower in dbmv strength than analog and are supposed to be a tad bit lower. Cabletool, in response to your statement 'In any event, if either visit you guys have lined up do not yeild a working cablecard I would send an email or make a phonecall to your local govt. They most likley have someone set up to take cable complaints. These are then forwarded to an agent at the cable company with a service agreement timeline to get the issue resolved. ( and "we cant get it working" isnt an acceptable resolution.)' Even if people complained about this issue to a cable commission, if we have the proper signal strenth to the set and the other guidelines are followed - we (cable providers) cannot predict or help what a tv is going to do or not do with a cable card. It would be a waste of the customer's and the commission's time. I think a lot more of the focus needs to be with the manufacturers of the sets as well and they should be held to the same standards. I have personally spent hours on the phone with these companies and to tell you the truth Panasonic is the only one so far to be very helpful. Sony is a nightmare to talk to so they have been the worst for me. I am wondering if part of the problem is systems that are migrating to ADS (all digital simulcast). That is something that we are required by the FCC to do soon and we already have it. That is when a bunch of our problems started happening and there is nothing we can do about it if a tv doesnt lock on to a signal and do the scan. The only way these manufacturers are going to jump on board and help is when people start returning these $3000 tvs out of frustration and then they might be more apt to build a partnership with cable providers for tech support on these issues. |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 601 Registered: Mar-05 | for some unknown reason, I've been having a hard time getting in here and posting replies lately... anyway Mark Milner~ your In Band data is more important then the OOB for breaking up channels. The OOB indicates the FDC and if it's locked and not drifting, there's no issue with the FDC. The In Band data is specific to the channel you were tuned to before you went into the diagnostics. If you go to a digital channel that is breaking up or not coming in it should show you errors and the SNR usually is below 28 if there is digital break up with the QAM signals. "Cable tool had posted that the FCC requires 0db at my outlet." This is not the issue, so pay attention to what I am saying, as I've said it many times before. The Operational specifications of the CC for the FDC are from +15 to -15 dBmV on the FDC. The manufacturers recommend +10 to -10 dBmV with zero being optimum. The digital channels are usually operational from +15 to -16 dBmV. Since digital channels are usually lower then analog channels, on a signal meter you may find that a digital channel exist at -14 dBmV, not indicating a low signal, just the analog meter calculating the digital channel you are getting a reading for. For true levels it is always advised to have the cable company send somebody out that has access to a QAM analyzer to view the actual QAM power level, MER, BER and view the constellation to see if there is anything breaking up the cluster of QAM data. Mark: if you can get a date and time your Sony repair guys can come out and investigate your problems, then call your cable company and demand to speak with a supervisor and coordinate with your cable company and your TV repair to have both parties out there at the same time is the best advice I can offer in your situation. I will stand by my conviction that there is nothing in my system that says a Sony TV will operate anything short of perfect. Even if the TV loses digital or pay HD channels, this is usually corrected by a reset of the CC via the TV menu. Usually there is an error message associated with this problem, not always, but most of the time. Also this is to strongly word that if there is no error message to make sure every aspect of the signals, wiring, coding, and the CC itself has been ruled out as the posible cause. kckc corp.~ the best thing I can offer is to contact your cable provider and have them verify if the software version they are broadcasting at their head end or master control is different then the version that is on the CC. I've seen that problem before, which was addressed by verifying the date stamp on the software at the head end with the date/time stamp on the version of the CC. Since the current technology is only 1-way compliant, the only way for CC's to get updated is for a provider to broadcast the version intermittingly. If the CC installed is the correct version, it basically ignores this message to update the firmware. If there is a different version then what is on the CC, that will facilitate a firmware update. I have seen both sides of the coin where something in our system was causing it, and I've seen it where invalid software on the TV was causing it to dupe the CC into thinking it needed one. Both issue in our system were addressed immediately. If you cable provider has a CC TV that they can preload the firmware onto a CC before they take it out to your house, should rule out if your TV is causing it to update. If it is pre-loaded or "staged" before you get it, and it tries to update something else is causing the update message. Get the numbers down pat people, they are not changing. If anybody tries telling you that a signal level of -13 on your FDC or -13 on a digital channel is below the FCC regulations needs to show me the money. The FCC requirement for zero dB at the TV was applicable to the RF output of STB's, not the CableCard. The issue is way beyond the local cable commissions, it has everything to do with self verification by TV manufacturers that no longer certify their product through CableLabs. Since most of these manufacturers are based over seas or in Mexico, ask yourself how are they verifying the product is working properly in a U.S. based cable system? Most of the significant problems that were actually related to TV hardware of software were recent versions or newer models that were self verified by the manufacturer. I am not saying cable systems are without fault, as the evidence is clearly proven. If a Sony can work in my system, then why isn't it working in somebody else's system? I can assure you issues that have cropped up where I work, have been checked/rechecked and documented to the ninth degree. Once I have ruled out any possible problems in my cable system, the burden of proof falls on the manufacturer at that point to show me why it is working fine on every other brand of TV in my systems except theirs. It takes having somebody that knows who to call, and not only that but making sure there is nothing that was over looked before the call was placed...but once the call goes out, be prepared to fight it out. |
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New member Username: CablegirltechPost Number: 5 Registered: Jan-06 | You go with your bad self!! Well explained Cableguy. Well we went out and swept the leg off of the node and the only thing we could find is that the deltas were off a tad and we are making the adjustments tommorrow night during the maintenance window. Thursday we will try the card again and we are also going to send the card an int hit that will map it back to the analog map before we launched the ads. i will keep you posted. Thanks for your assistance with this and you deserve a 'captain save a cable' trophy for all of your efforts on these boards! Deanna |
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Bronze Member Username: CabletoolMidwest Post Number: 13 Registered: Jan-06 | I didnt mean to imply that your local govt can get the card working. I was stating that the local govt can put pressure where pressure is needed. I think cableguy will agree with me on this one-> "It just doesnt work here" isnt an acceptable answer. If this is what a Charter tech is telling his customers then I suggest they start applying pressure. Advising customers to make another appointment and make another appointment and educating them so they can educate their tech is putting the customer in an awful spot. If things are so bad that techs are trying to convince subs to get a box because the techs are so frustrated then pressure needs to come from elsewhere. And the customer needs that burden taken off of them. I went through this same issue in my area. My techs were telling our customers they are just too buggy and we coudlnt get any working. After a month or two of this they started filing complaints with the FCC. I was putting internal pressure on engineering and our information services department as I knew it wasnt a field related issue and more of a provisioning issue. I was looked at as a nuiseince more then someone trying to fix an issue. ( but I was the one left holding the ball when all the customer complaints and escalations fell in my lap) In any event it took one customer one email to the local franchise authority to grab the eye of our VP. He gave me all available resources, I showed him all my "Deaf ear" correspondance. I had engineerings ear, our headend, our information services department-> all managers. We cleared up a 5 month failed install issue in one week. Charters cards getting hung up on firmware downloads sounds like an easy enough issue to trouble shoot. I think the issue is just something the techs might just be dealing with thinking " These cards suck, always have, always will and they will never work." Since our issue was fixed we havent had one failed install that Im aware of. If there IS one that is a problem I have been able to get it going without much issue. As far as the signal issue, most techs do not have a meter that will measure the actual haystack. So for a tech to say "-5, thats in spec" doesnt mean much to me when he is talking about an HD channel that he cant accurately measure. Especially when, upon walking away, there is still an issue. I wrote a little article for my website that I havent finished yet but Ill post it if you want to a take a look. And here is a thread at AVS forum with 4 of my customers that I worked with personally ( although they had no idea who I was or that I even knew the forum existed) You can see their frustration. You can see where they suggested filing complaints with the FCC. It blew my mind how tenacious they were when I knew I was working so dam hard to get these things working for them. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=556673 |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 612 Registered: Mar-05 | "It just doesnt work here" isnt an acceptable answer." Amen I read both the links you provided, sounds like there were a lot of issues at the headend that were finally resolved. The bigger issue at hand is making sure the technicians are given the time to get the proper training on how to identify cable related problems and TV related problems. One thing that is certain the cable companies were not just handed this new product without all the associated documentation on how to set up and properly allocate these devices. If it was not done properly at the headend, there is nothing a field technician is going to be able to do to get them working. Having technicians say "I can't get these things working anywhere" indicates there is a problem with the training of installation and troubleshooting of them and needs to be addressed by their company. Somebody at each location should have access to personnel that can clearly identify where the problems are originating from. This covers the cable company side of things as well as the CC manufacturer and even the TV manufacturers. If there is a broken link between any of these three entities, you will have problems go unanswered for lengthy durations. It's a shame that this product was launched with so many problems, which as time has proven, have been corrected or are in the process of being corrected. The general public should do as much research on any product they plan on purchasing before they make the purchase. The installers and technicians should be fully trained on installation and troubleshooting CC technology, and more importantly have a contact to be able to call while in a customers home to verify if there are any known problems that exist with particular models or manufacturers. TV manufacturers should ensure that any software updates that are available for their product are loaded on the TV prior to the consumer purchasing said product. Does this always happen? history dictates otherwise. Will it happen in the future? if things don't change, absolutely. It is a very complicated beast as dealing with third party issues is very hard to keep up with. Having communication with the manufacturers of the TV and the CC definitely helps speed the process up, but as history has proven, some issue take months to resolve from the manufactures end, just as problems on the cable providers have taken months to resolve as well. I guess I've been very fortunate to have a company that has followed everything to a "T", which has minimized the issues down to cable signal, account coding, defective CC's and manufacturer related problems. It definitely helps to know the system is working before you go out and try to install them. If coding, signals and the CC are up to specifications, the only remaining factor is the TV itself, and that makes it easier on everyone involved. It's nice to see other cable peeps getting involved in this thread, as each individual system has issues that vary greatly from one another. Different CC's have different symptoms as well, and I know squat about motorola, so hopefully having some people that work with motorola CC's will be able to assist with that portion of the problems. |
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New member Username: EricmcgovernPost Number: 2 Registered: Jan-06 | Thanks to all the cable techs who post here, this has really opened my eyes up to what goes on. I may be able to get someone's ear at Charter, and I would love to help them through this issue. I can see this problem only getting worse with more and more TV's sold with this feature, and more devices that are soon to come (the new Tivo comes to mind). |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 614 Registered: Mar-05 | I think once people start doing the research and finding out how wide spread this problem is, it will (hopefully) help ease some of their questions. If cable techs come here looking for answers or offering advice, it only benefits others seeking the same knowledge. My biggest complaint is that if more people had done some valid research before purchasing, they wouldn't be so upset with the whole process when a snag is hit...but then again therefore but the grace of God go I. (only mine was a pc, that I should have researched and not a $5000 TV) What doesn't kill us, only makes us want to kill the person that sold it to us |
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Bronze Member Username: CabletoolMidwest Post Number: 14 Registered: Jan-06 | I was at COSTCO ( like a sams club wholesale place) and this tiny woman was buying a HUGE 50'' LCD monitor. She was in front of me in the check out line with this HUGE BOX on a dolly she could barely move. She read the box which stated it needed a cable box or vcr/dvd player. She turned to me and asked " Is there even a TV in here? " She didnt even know that it didnt have a tuner and it would be useless without cable or dish. I explained to her it was just the monitor and she would need a cable box or something. I dont know about you, the more money I spend the more I research... |
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New member Username: Rich1039United States Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-06 | I am in the market for a hdtv. Very complicated indeed; I've been researching for months now. I think I'm done execept for one question: If I buy a hdtv with one way cable card capability, will it be possible to upgrade to a two way cable card in the future? Thanks for any advice. |
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New member Username: JerameTarawa Terrace, NC United States Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-06 | Just recieved a call from my cable company. They wanted to know if I would like to be on a list to recieve a 'MCARD' to replace my cablecard. Funny thing is they haven't installed my cablecard yet. When I asked the lady what a mcard was, she said she didn't know, but was told to offer it. Does anyone have a visual on what a 'MCARD' is? |
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Bronze Member Username: CabletoolMidwest Post Number: 18 Registered: Jan-06 | Richard- The card merely sets the decryption for the content. It has nothing to do with 2-way services, whether it be the current version 1.0 or the upcoming CableCard 2.0. Last I heard Samsung was the first to get certification from CableLabs for a 2-way host ( television set) Jerame- An MCARD is a MultiStream card. Kind of like a Dual Tuner DVR without the DVR. You can swap from one tuner to the other and whatnot. It would be useful if you have a DCR enabled TIVO or other third party DVR. Then, just like a standard Dual Tuner DVR you can record one thing and watch another. MCard just means MULTI STREAM meaning it can handle two data streams. The regular cablecard can be considered an "SCARD" or single stream card. |
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New member Username: CablegirltechPost Number: 6 Registered: Jan-06 | cableguy and cabletool; we had another Sony Wega fail today... it was a trouble call and the customer lost all of his channels, they actually went black. Our tech went out, swapped cards, sent the int hit and nada. The tv came up with a 161-4 error code and said analog channels 0 digital channels 0 after doing the channel search. We tried 2 more cards, same thing. Levels, deltas, snr, cn all good too. Okay, so we took the card out and did a channel search, all digital and analog (they really are digital though) channels came through; of course the hbo and such didnt but the hi-def and others did. So that is leading me to believe that the q-box or cc interface mentioned in other posts might have gone out? This is the same scenerio of my first Sony nightmare that we are still working on. The error code is wierd though because we get those on Toshiba and Mitsubishi sometimes too but then they end up working. As far as you stating in your post that these cards come with installation and other information on how to install them; Motorola sure didnt provide that. They provided a little blurb on 'you insert it here and turn the tv on, provide the numbers and viola' basically that was it. If you go to Motorola's web site you cant even find specs that are useful for these cards either! So what can you tell me about the error code and such on this tv that I mentioned? HELP BEFORE I GO BALD! Deanna |
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Bronze Member Username: CabletoolMidwest Post Number: 19 Registered: Jan-06 | God I know how frustrating that is. I am not sure what the 161-4 error means.. I will upload all my CableCard docs that I have at home though to give you a hand.. Im sure you already have them though. The only problem I have seen with the Sonys are dropping all channels or powering off. Dropping all channels. Ive only had this happen to one sub. When he powered off his Sony.. Ive got the model somewhere, and powered it back on he lost all channels. We had to pull the card and pop it back in. When we did that BAM. All channels came back. I dont think we ever resolved that. I have a sub with 3 sonys, XBR or CBR or something like that. All sets wouldnt turn on. He thought it was because of the cable cards. I pulled the cards out, set still wouldnt turn on. The green power LED would come on, but no audio, no picture. The screen itself was still powered off. Each tv had to be unplugged from the wall and plugged back in. Then all was good. I believe it to be a Sony issue though and not a CC issue at all. I had Tweeter come out as well. It was new to them. Neither of those will help you.. but .. there you are. When we were in the throws of our cablecard debacle I went to Circuit City to test on all their sets. At the time it didnt yield much info as the issue wasnt in the plant itself... its worth a shot though. Most BigBox stores have an account with Comcast and some kind of Comcast HD/DVR display set up. Its an easy thing to get the rates put on and a few cards added. Its a helluva lot less pressure.. Have you ever noticed a pattern with cards working or not working? A pattern based on Nodes or channel maps, headned/zip codes? Anything? I went through all the same steps as you and your crew did certifying the plant all the way back to the headend. Its all you think about after awhile. Have you taken the issue back to the engineers or whichever department is over provisioning/addresability? |
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Bronze Member Username: CabletoolMidwest Post Number: 20 Registered: Jan-06 | If you dont get the pm/email ( I still dont understand how PMs work on this board...) then just send me an email at my name @gmail.com. Ill send the link to you... |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 616 Registered: Mar-05 | Deanna~ Usually the 161-4 error on SA CC's indicates that Sony needs to swap out the Q-box (cc interface), I don't know if that applies to the Motorola brand as well, but that's what corrects the problem here. If you have a customer that gets the 161-4 error message, I'm sure I've posted it in this forum a few times, all they should have to do is go into the Menu, there are two options when you first get to the CC from the applications menu: show or reset. If you choose reset it will basically reboot the TV and everything that was missing should return (at least that's what happens here) If this is the case with your system, and the problem clears by the reset, the customer should contact Sony and report they are getting the 161-4 error code and losing digital channels. This is very similar to the 161-6 error message, but it can also indicate a faulty CC. If the card has been swapped out, and the customer gets the same error message later, the Sony repair needs to be done to prevent the problem from happening again. |
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New member Username: CablegirltechPost Number: 7 Registered: Jan-06 | YOU GUYS ARE NOT GOING TO BELIEVE THIS!! Yesterday I went back to my Sony customer, the one where we swept everything from the headeand to the house. We tried the card again and nope, no go. The customer called Sony and had a fit and finally got someone worthy on the phone and he passed it to me. I read the screens one at a time to him and he said 'hmm, on his file back from 1/3/06 it states we notified the repair contractor and told them they needed to upgrade the firmware in the tv' i about flipped! I said do you know how many Sony reps are telling people that there is no such thing or no such upgrade? He then flipped and said this is a known Sony issue' I told him that the other tv manufacturers are sending out the sd cards and letting customers update their own tvs and he said they pay someone to come and do it and I asked how to get into the menu to check the firmware and he said he couldnt tell me that and the repair people only know how. Ok, that is weird, so i called the repair contractor's office and asked them and they said they have a contract with Sony and couldnt let me know that. That is weird too, money hungry i guess? So fine, they are coming out next week and finishing the job that they already got paid for and i get to be there to watch. I am floored and i called my other 6 Sony customers and told them to call Sony again and demand the upgrade and be persistent until they get it. I am going to check into possibly sending a bill to Sony for all of the time we spent on this home to find it was their issue all along. It probably wont happen but it could raise a flag. WOW HUH? |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 619 Registered: Mar-05 | Deanna~ It's not surprising, although it shows me how different issues exist in different systems. There are no software updates available for our system, but they do replace the interface so go figure. As far as them not telling you how to access the hidden diagnostic menu, there is a valid reason for not wanting people to know how to access that because there are things that can be changed while in those menu's that could mess up the operational status of the TV. My firm belief is that it's not my equipment, I don't want to know how to access them because I don't want to be blamed for breaking something, if you get my drift. Glad there is finally a light at the end of your tunnel, and thanks for updating us. |
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Bronze Member Username: CabletoolMidwest Post Number: 24 Registered: Jan-06 | Please keep us updated! If you can find out what Firmware the sets have now and what they are upgrading it to. Were you dealing with different sony models or were these all the same? Id love some model numbers as well. Now its just a waiting game. ( and a little nervousness installing the card after the firmware upgrade...) |
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New member Username: CablegirltechPost Number: 8 Registered: Jan-06 | You got that right, Cabletool about the nervousness. In regards to accessing the menu, I would have the customer access that and tell them not to change ANYTHING on the menu or the tv might be inoperable. I think anyone who pays over $3000 for a tv isnt going to be that dumb to change things, you never know though. The repair contractor is going to find if the firmware can be accessed or read from a different menu on the tv though just in case. A menu that cant be altered, just read. The model numbers we have start with KDE and I cant remember the rest. It is for the '50 or '52 inch Sony Wega and Grand Wega tvs. I am just so excited that there is finally going to be a fix for this and if not, we know it wasnt our system. This customer of mine has been so paitient and wonderful! He is excited too so I just hope it works. I will let you know next week.... |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 622 Registered: Mar-05 | The bad thing is your company should already have this information, or least access to it. |
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tv_trouble Unregistered guest | I'm having the same issue as Charles L did last year with my Samsung (SP-R4232) Plasma EDTV with a cable card. The sounds periodically drops every 30-40 seconds for about one second and then comes back. I was told by Cox that I required a firmware upgrade (from 1010 to 1015), which was made available 11/22/05, but when I called Samsung tech support to see if they had this upgrade, they said it didn't exist. Just wondering if you're aware of this upgrade? |
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Unregistered guest | Hello all... I am a Charter Subscriber in Michigan, and I am a new Cablecard user. I have 2 cards on one outlet - a Mitsubishi TV and a Sony HD DVR. I also have an HD STB on this same outlet (to let my Tivo record premium channels). The problem I found is that both of the Cablecards would "tile/mosaic" frequently, while the STB was just fine. I had a tech here today to troubleshoot, and he replaced a lot of cabling/fittings, and also replaced the cable drop to my house. This all did nothing other than improving the signal from "+2/+10" to "+11/+12". He told me this was better because it was better balanced. The final fix attempt was a cablecard replacement on the TV. As it turned out, the firmware version on the TV's new cablecard seemed to be newer (4.21 vs 4.05 Moto cards). This one didn't seem to tile/mosaic, and we speculated that this newer firmware might have been the fix. We tried another CC in the DVR, and it turned out this one was the same firmware version as the original (4.05). We paired it anyway, and so far it has been OK. I will be keeping an eye on it to see if it stays OK. My question: can the cableco tell what the firmware version is on a CC without plugging it into a TV (or other CC compatible device)? Also, can the firmware be updated remotely by Charter's system? I would like to try a 4.21 card in the DVR if the problems persist on that device, but I am concerned that it will be tough to find one... |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 629 Registered: Mar-05 | tv_trouble~ I'll get back with you on that next week. spiff~ "can the cableco tell what the firmware version is on a CC without plugging it into a TV" Only if they know what version was on it when it was shipped, as in "they just got it in the mail" I usually prestage my cards before I go to a house, basically install it and verify the version of software is correct. "can the firmware be updated remotely by Charter's system?" I can't say how Charter does their stuff, but I know we can remotely upgrade software on the CC. If there is a broadcast from the master control that has a newer version of software than what is already loaded on the card, it will iniate a "firmware upgrade in progress" message on the SA CC's |
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New member Username: Tech7470Staten island, Ny Post Number: 3 Registered: Jan-06 | tv-trouble there is an upgrade for that tv but i think it depends on the cable card that you have. If you have an sa cable card the firmware you need is T- STRANUOS 1015 available 11/22/05. |
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tv_trouble Unregistered guest | thanks! do you know where i can find this upgrade? when i first contacted samsung, they told me it did not need an upgrade. the second time i called, they told me it needed one, but they didn't have it. |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 640 Registered: Mar-05 | tv_trouble~ You would need to get if from Samsung, you won't find it on eBay |
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tv_trouble Unregistered guest | cableguy, any thoughts on other sources besides Samsung? i haven't had much luck with them in the past as they do not believe this upgrade exists. |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 644 Registered: Mar-05 | since the software is proprietary to Samsung there is no place you can get it other then the manufacturer. |
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New member Username: LacabletechLa Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-06 | Hello everybody. I work for cox in La.Some of the issues I am hearing here are new to me.But I can say that we have had issues with some Samsung sets with cable cards.One being a error code similiar to the one stated earlier.And another tech had a Samsung that would turn off when the card was installed.I do not remember the model numbers though.On other occasions with cc installs the card is bad or the tech did not do proper checks before installing it. |
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Endo129 Unregistered guest | This may not be the proper post, but I could not find one dealing with the spesific issue at hand, and some of the stuff I've read in here sounds close, not to mention the peopl ehere seem VERY knowledgeable. I have a SONY HD DVR, actually I'm on my third in just over a month. It has a known issue with the cable card, which needs sent to SONY to be fixed. This is the error 161-6. I have more information about this from another forum if it'll help anyone. My problem is that I am trying to get my TVGOS guide data to work before I decide whether to send the unit to SONY to get fixed, or get something else. Somewhere I read that the OOB has to be locked and the SNR above 16 on my host channel (channel that downloads the guide info) or the signal may not be good enough for it to work. Currently my OOB is unlocked, and thus there is no SNR. MY InBand SNR was as high as 55, but yesterday was down to 22 or 27. My question: does this make sense to any of the techs out there? Do I need to get my cable co out to get the signal up? When I unhooked my STB and moved my entire electronics setup around and put the first box in, I noticed more "noise" in the HD channels. (I know digital channels don't get noise like analog, but it's not even bad enough to call tiling, but it is more noticeable than it was.) They still look good, but I can start to see the background of shows moving, when the picture was phenominal before. I don't know what I could have done, except possibly damaged a coax or something moving it around. Also, when I brought up the slight decline in the quality upon cablecard installation, the tech wanted to start by not running the coax through a Monster surge protector, although had this in the setup before the decline. Is it advised not to run the coax through a surge protector? FWIW: I do not have the cable card in the HD DVR yet, as I'm trying to rule out the 161-6 error as affecting the TVGOS situation. Any help would be AWESOME! Thanks! |
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Bronze Member Username: CabletoolMidwest Post Number: 40 Registered: Jan-06 | Can you get your TVGOS without the card inserted? Running cable through the Monster can cause an issue with the reverse. ( although if you are using a card and not a STB there is really no true issue. I do know of working, perfectly working Sony DVRs with the Moto cablecard though. Great picture and TVGOS data... Where is the thread from the other forum? |
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Endo129 Unregistered guest | On the first unit I had, I got the guide data after a week or so without the cable card. I then got the cable card installed and the TVGOS became flaky, but I do not know if this was attributed to the cable card or not. This is why I am trying to make sure I can get the TVGOS data befroe I put the card in. If I can get the TVGOS data good in my city with my cable co, then I'll send it in to SONY to fix the cable card issue. It uses the TVGOS data through my PBS channel from Gemstar, snd I get the PBS channel without the cablecard, as a part of my basic cable. the other forum is over 94 pages long, and I coldn't tell you where any given thing is, but if you want to know something specific I could maybe tell you based on this forum. I couldn't get you a link b/c of rules on this board  |
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Bronze Member Username: CabletoolMidwest Post Number: 41 Registered: Jan-06 | cabletool at gmail.com Do you know if your analogs are digitally simulcasted yet? |
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Endo129 Unregistered guest | I do not know if they do, but I need the analogs anyway to get the TVGOS data. I know they are analog, b/c the diagnostics screen says so. I have the cable co coming out tonight, but they usually aren't much, help and I need to be a little educated to help them help me. Thanks! |
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Bronze Member Username: CabletoolMidwest Post Number: 42 Registered: Jan-06 | Without your cableCARD everything will come in analog. ( if thats when you are reading your diag) but with it you might get your channels all digital. This obviously will prevent you from getting that analog signal with the data stream. Have you checked the diag with the cableCARD inserted and active? If the other forum is AVS them Im already aware of it. The only issue I know of that prevents the TVGOS data aside from the Sony itself would be your analogs being digital. |
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New member Username: Wader9999Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-06 | Alright, I have a Sony KD30XS955 with a Scientific Atlantic CC. I am having promblems. -1st card - went well for 15 min. After that All HD Channels (escept for local HD) flickered and came back on 1 minute later. I would get error messages 161-1,161-4,161-6, or 161-10 varius times when I turned the TV on. -(2nd try)(2nd card): did not get the HDTV Channels at all (except local HD) until a day later when I reset my TV and CC. Now all Channels come in, BUT all channels will flicker/ freeze about every 15 minutes and HD (except Local HD) stays off for many min. I however do not get any errror messages. When I go to reset the card it has two option: SHOW or RESET, right after a freeze the SHOW option is not available. (like the card is not there) I have read many post about similar things. However, do not know what or understand what are really working fixes. Any help would be appreciated, I have another appointment w/ the cable company on sunday. Thank you, |
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New member Username: Magredc5Southern New Hampshire Post Number: 2 Registered: Jan-06 | Endo129: As Cable Tool said, everything is analog with a straight cable, but with the Cablecard, most of the channels are now coming in on their digital channel including PBS. In order for TVGOS to work, the cable company will have to broadcast the analog PBS signal on a new channel separate from the digital one, i.e. my Analog PBS channel is WGBH 2 on analog cable. On digital cable (with Cablecard) channel 2 is now digital, but my cable company rebroadcasts the analog WGBH signal on channel 99. With the Cablecard plugged in, you say it's flakey but I assume you're at least getting the channel list so you're receiving data, just not consistently. If you don't have anything, then the system has not even gotten past the setup stage. In the diag screen, you should see the host channel. That should be your PBS analog channel, i.e on mine it's 1:0-99. Now check your channel map in TVGOS (Setup, Channel Display). First of all, do you see your analog PBS channel listed? You should see both the Digital and Analog channels. If you only see the digital one (i.e. it's tune-to channel is 2 on mine) then you need to edit it to tune to the analog channel, i.e. 99 on mine. If you see both the digital and analog channel, make sure the analog one has the correct tune-to channel. On mine, it comes in from Gemstar incorrectly as channel 97. When I first got my TV I had very flakey behavior until I noticed this discrepancy and edited my analog PBS channel to tune to the correct channel 99. I have theories on why this works but it has worked flawlessly since. Try that and see if it fixes your problem. |
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Endo129 Unregistered guest | David: Not entirely sure b/c my SONY TV doesn't take the cable card, but my SONY DVR does (also an SA card). Error 161-6 on my DVR says on SONY's website that it requires service from SONY - must send it in. TV obviously is a little bigger, and when I had problems with my SONY tv (all be it not the same probelm) they sent someone out. I have talked to people with my DVR that get ERROR 161-6 that have gotten it fixed. As best as I can understand SONY is doing and "electrical modification" to fix this error (also doing firmware upgrades while they have it). I understood the problem to lie somewhere in that the cable card is needs more electricity than the circitry allows, so the digital tuner stops working after a time. Mine too will work for a while, (sometimes a week) then the cable card just becomes usless and I'm back to only the channels I get without it anyway. I read earlier in this post about SONY installnig a new QAM box in the tv. May be what you need. Magred: Thanks for the suggestions! My host channel is 1:0-2 ONE of my local PBS channels. Right now I don't have the cable card in, b/c I want to make sure I can get the guide period before I put the card in, also so I know it's not a cable card issue. Also, the diganostics screen shows that the channel (2 - PBS) is analog. I noticed that my other PBS (analog 9) was gettign more VBI packets than the host channel. I tried shutting off the host channel and fooling the box into picking up the other PBS to see if it would help. Now, even after turning my host channel back on and a day later, my clock is still a ahlf hour slow, telling me that it can't even get the data to update the clock. This also was has been since I noticed the decline in the SNR from 55 to 27. Also, how do I register to be a member. I can't find it. Thanks! |
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Endo129 Unregistered guest | So the cable co just left without even hooking anythgin up to my lines. They took one look at the set up and said "Oh! You've got the cabel running through the serge protector, then through a cheap splitter, and another line all the way down the hall to the bedroom (not the location in question). This stuff doesn't pass digital. I'm suprised anything is working at all; and it's not passing the return." I told them that it has been working fine for over a year with the exat same set up. They said sometimes it'll work for a while then stop. Here's the part I don't understand. 1) I'm not worried about the digital. It's the analog channel that the OOB is not locked on. 2) I have a cable card set up I don't there is no "return" b/c it is a one-way technology (althogh the cable card is not inserted, but he doesn't know that). So without taking a SINGLE reading, they left and someone "better" is coming back on Monday to take a look at my set up and try and re do the entire thing. Someone tell me it's not going to matter. Please! Thank you! OH! forgot the part where after he left I took the line straight into the apartment and hooked it into the tuner - no change. |
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New member Username: RigpigPost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-06 | Hello All I am a newbie to the world of Plasma TV's and CableCards. I am having similar problems with getting the Cablecard to work ...... and getting anyone interested in fixing the problem. We have had 2 visits from CoxCable, two SA CC's installed, a call to LG (who has assured us that their end is all working correctly) and presently waiting for a cableguy "Lead Tech" to come and sort this out (hopefully) The cable company is COX Communication ( Gulf Coast ), The TV is an LG model 50PX4DR-UA, the info from the CP screen is as follows: Auth Status: CP auth received Prog number: 50 CCI byte: 0x00 ECM count: 0 EMM count: 0 Decryption Status: OK PowerKey Status: Not Ready - Waiting on EMM EID: 0xffffffff MKS period: 2000seconds KSE count: 0 One thing that I have noticed, when I have the TV tuned to channel 3 (local station, analog) and look at the CP info screen it says "Prog number 50" and when I tune to 740 HD discovery, it also says "Prog number 50" ? Not sure if that means anything , just seemed strange to me. Can anyone offer advise? Thanks |
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Jay Z Unregistered guest | Cableguy please help, I have a Samsung DLP HL-R42...anyway i have a motorola cablecard and when i insert it i dont get the cablecard inserted message. How long do i have to wait for that to pop u p. Also on the menu the cablecard menu options are greyed out and i cant even get to them. Please help. |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 657 Registered: Mar-05 | Jay Z~ you should see that message instantly. I would make sure the CC is being inserted properly, that's what it sounds like might be the problem. If it's not I'd be on the phone with Samsung asking why. David~ you need to contact Sony and report the error messages and problems, it sounds like they need to come out and replace your CC interface. Randy~ CP auth recieved indicates they are able to communicate with your CC installed in your TV, but the lack of EMM's most likely indicates a coding or problem receiving the "hit" from the company. In the system I work with, if CP auth is received and no EMM's, a deregister/reregister and rehit the CC. Pay attention to the EMM count, you may need to exit and re-enter the CP info screen many times to see if the EMM count is going up. If it doesn't 9 times out of 10 it's either a bad card or they are not provisioning the card properly. |
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New member Username: RigpigPost Number: 2 Registered: Jan-06 | Thanks cableguy I am still waiting for the cable co. to make an appt to revisit. Last night I was able to receive HDMTV, but only for a while. The channels seem to come and go. Sometimes the TV will tune to them and sometimes it's like they do not exist. At any rate I will keep you posted. Thank you for your input. Keep up the great work |
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New member Username: Kml128Post Number: 1 Registered: Feb-06 | I just got my Cablecard today. I have a 37" Philips LCD. Here's the deal...Everything appears to work OK. I get all of the stations I'm supposed to get , but, the HD stations don't quite look HD. I brought my existing HD cablebox from downstairs up to the new TV to compare and sure enough, there's a difference. The TV even says 1080i at the top when I connect the cablebox to input "AV1". I can't get the 1080i note on input "TV". There is a noticeable difference in picture quality. I'm going to start working on the problem, but don't really know where to start. I've heard that the tuner within the TV is supposed to be "better" or more in tune with the TV than the Scientific Atlanta 8000HD box should be. Is the problem the TV tuner not being good enough? Or is the card not configured correctly? Any help is appreciated. I have Cox cable in San Diego, North County. |
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New member Username: Wader9999Post Number: 3 Registered: Jan-06 | This is to a situation I had with a Sony and the SA CC's. The local TWC company has tried to fix the problem. I do not think that they are well trained with CC's, but I appreciate their effort. I do not want to "upgrade" my tv's qam/ q-box because it seems to be a "downgrade" and requires "maybe" for the picture tube to be replaced. I do not want to risk loosing my picture quality or damaging my tv. I do not want a cable box, especially since it would cost more. So I have decide to lower my package to standard cable and return the cable card. Using my TV's cable tuner (takes one hour) I pick up all standard and local HD Channels, including universal NBC. I also am a OTA reciever and sinced this whole situation is he result of a move and the availablity, or lack of, of internet I am not suffering from not having the HD package. I do think that OTA reception is better than cable with HD. Prob. just the resistance and interfeance of traveling through the cable. Thanks for all the info and help, best of luck with anyone with SA CC's. I am out |
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DanB Unregistered guest | Having cable card issue with Sony KDF-E42A10 where I lose all digital channels upon turning on TV (not every time, but probably 75% of time). I get "No Signal" message, no error messages. Contacted sony about 2 months ago, got up pretty high after I responded back to VP of service department that I was disappointed with first service call (guy did nothing, said it was new technology and I shouldn't expect it to work all the time). Sony rep was unaware of issues (apparently, not enough people had complained). I've had cable company replace card twice now with no luck (of course, they blame on TV). I believe card is Motorola (both cards were Motorola). Called local Sony Service repair and they are coming out to look at it. My question is this: What should I request out of the repair guy? Shall I have him replace CC interface? What checks should he be doing? Does anyone have Sony's information regarding issues/resolutions for this problem so I know he/she is doing the right thing? |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 664 Registered: Mar-05 | Wader~ move to my system, I can get it working Seriously though, sorry to hear you had to drop the CC, you really should let Sony replace your interface, it's harmless and once it's done you should have no further problems. The TV is under manufacturer warranty period, you bought the TV for a reason, let them fix it you should anyway regardless of if you want to use the CC or not. Someday down the road you might want to try it again, and then you'll have to pay. DanB~ I don't know if the same issue the SA CC systems are seeing with your model translate to the same issue with Motorola systems. I believe they exchange the interface, install a heat shield between the interface and the lamp and replace the lamp to correct the operational issues. I'm not a 100% certain, but I think the reason it fails is the CC or the interface is overheating (why else would they exchange the interface and install a heat shield?) Just remember that once the CC interface is exchanged your TV will be assigned a new host ID. You will need to contact your cable provider and tell them you have a new host ID and it needs to be changed on your account so your CC will work again. This is handled over the phone at my work, but I hear some systems require a tech to come out and replace the CC as well, waste of time IMHO, but if they want to spend the gas/time/money to roll a truck more power to 'em lol. |
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TimJ Unregistered guest | Got a new Sony DVR (DHG-HDD250) and have had a Sony HDTV (KDF-55XS955) for 6 months, a model which I know has featured on these forums. Quick version of story so far: switched to CCs from box, installed CCs, called TWC Houston to authorize, it didn't work of course, called out a TWC tech (after out-manouvering a resistant phone person). The Sony menus seem quite clear to me and indicate that the CCs have not been authorized by the CP. I thought perhaps that it was because the SNR was too low (based on reading these forums). According to both the TV and the DVR the SNR is ~20dB. However, the TWC tech made the following measurements: Upstream 38dB SNR 37 dB Channel 3 14dB Channel 117 7dB He said these were excellent readings. Does this data mean anything to anyone? Why do my Sony devicee register a weaker signal. Does the CC diminish the signal strength? I feel that I should be able to get to the root cause quicker than most people because I have two CableCARDs and two Sony devices, both pretty new. I have read about Sony TVs perhaps requiring something called a Q-Box, but that wouldn't apply to the DVR. I suppose there is an outside chance that both cards are faulty. Any suggestions folks? |
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New member Username: DoobzillaOklahoma City, OK USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Feb-06 | First off, I have Cox Communications in OKC, OK. They have always been problematic with any new technology. I just got a cablecard installed in my Samsung HL-R6178W today. I was extremely disappointed in what little information my installer had on the subject of cablecards. I understand that every single situation is somewhat different. But there should be some common aspects to a cc install. He was very kind and understanding at my dismay that his company has not taught him the things that he needs to know to do his job effectively. After about four hours and only one cc later, we got it working. That's right, I said WE got it working. I was pleasantly surprised that he actually listened to me when I suggested that we get online and see what we could find. People like him are hard to find in the world today. As far as I know, it still works, I will report later for any that are interested. |
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DanB Unregistered guest | Cableguy~ Just talked to Sony support (second level) and he found repair info regarding my model. Apparently, there is a repair to install a "grounding strap" which occassionally comes loose during shipping...might be heat shield you're referring to? Anyways, they're sending a technician out to fix...hopefully this does it. Doesn't seem like overheating would be my issue since signal loss happens when I initially turn TV on, not while I'm actually watching TV. Thanks for info on host ID...will do if they change out interface. |
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New member Username: CablegirltechPost Number: 9 Registered: Jan-06 | Howdy again cableguy and cabletool!! This is deanna. Well, I met with the customer and the Sony repair tech today and alas, it is still not working! The tech replaced the 'B box' not the q box and he said it was basically the brain of the tv but he didnt replace the actual port where the cable card inserts. He said it probably was fine since the tv recognized the card and knew it was a Motorola. I think he should have replaced that too but hmm, who knows. Anyhow it didnt change a thing except it made the HD channels through the box look like crap, kind of 'fuzzy' and not clear. The customer is ready to go and get a Panasonic but we shall see. |
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New member Username: Hunter3611New york, New york Usa Post Number: 2 Registered: Feb-06 | hi...had a s/a cc installed into a new lg-50px5d by tech from twc here in ny..guy said it would take a couple of hours for programs to come up???..well that was 12 hours ago and all i can receave is channels 2-4-5-7-8-9-11-13- and hd 2-4-7-the rest show up as no siginal..bringing up the card info is shows WAITING FOR CP AUTH. AND WAITING FOR EMM'S...does this sound like a bad card or does it mean the cable company has yet to authorise the card..spoke with time warner several times today and they say all programs are ok and i should be receving them..need some advice on what to tell them to help get this problem fixed...waited 2 wks for this card now they tell me they can have someone over in march they say theres nothing they can do from there end...any help??? thanks |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 681 Registered: Mar-05 | <i>"they say theres nothing they can do from there end" <i/> This is not true, you can ask them to verify the services are correct the un-pair and pair the CC at their office, hit and refresh them. Waiting for CP auth means the card has not received any commands for service, waiting for EMM's means they haven't sent the staging files for the card. Assuming your cable signals are good, either the card is bad or they need to recheck your account to make sure the coding is correct and then do the un-pair/pair/hit/refresh. |
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New member Username: CablegirltechPost Number: 10 Registered: Jan-06 | cableguy, explain the pair unpair? are you talking of the host id number? splain...thanks, deanna. |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 682 Registered: Mar-05 | pair/un-pair is revoking the pairing information in the system and then re-entering it. Not so much deleting the information, but rather removing authorization for the two items and then adding them back again. This process may be different based on your data entry or billing systems...but there should be some process to allow the proceedure. |
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New member Username: Hunter3611New york, New york Usa Post Number: 3 Registered: Feb-06 | cableguy...spoke with twc today and asked if they can re-enter the id codes and stated that they could not and cannot transfer me to someone who could..or would...however i was told this time that someone would be out today...ah the waiting game...so now i wait...thanks for your reply |
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New member Username: Hunter3611New york, New york Usa Post Number: 4 Registered: Feb-06 | hi all...so much for appointments..twc was to be here btw 2 and 6 pm never showed up they wouldent even say why sooo the wait continues..if i knew it was like this would have never ordered a cc....now they say sat. morning....any wagers |
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New member Username: DanielbBrisbane, QLD Australia Post Number: 1 Registered: Feb-06 | Need advice Re HDMI and a media centre. I'm about to get a media centre custom made. Features Silvertone case with 7" touch screen 3.0ghz Dual Core processor Latest Intel board 2 x 250gig HD in Raid config Dual HDTV Tuner card 2 x dual layer 16xDVD burners 7.1 sound card more.. I want to use my 50" Panasonic Plasma and Nakamich AV-8 reciever driving Whatmough speakers.(extreme high end audio) What specs should I look for to ensure maximum Audio and Video? Is HDMI better than using the PC input on the plasma? |
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New member Username: RigpigPost Number: 3 Registered: Jan-06 | Continuing saga of the LG 50PX4DR & Cox Cable - SA Cable Card marriage : On February 2, 2006 We left off with me waiting for LG to send a firmware update , loaded on a memory card to arrive in 1~2 business days... ha ! I tried to be patient for as long as I could. Another call to LG (and a different person) revealed that I did not, in fact, need a firmware update on memory card. But that I needed a technician to come and "Load" software on the TV by connecting a laptop. We have spoken with the technician and he informed us that as soon as LG sends him the software (?) he will come and load it. Forgive the sarcasm, but I wanted to update this forum, for any others with similar equipment and that may be looking or waiting for answers. I will post the progress as soon as there is any. |
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Unregistered guest | Cableguy: I got a Samsung HL-R5067W a few weeks ago. Cablecard was installed one week ago. First cablecard had a problem with one channel, ESPN HD. Audio cam in fine, video was blank. SNR was good (mid 30's), not a signal level issue. I had some problems with the TV with bow of the screen, so I returned it for a new one. I swapped the TV & the cable card on Friday night. Everything was working with the exception of the same ESPN HD problem. On Saturday morning, in the middle of rearranging my tvgos lineup, I get "cablecard firmware upgrade in progress" It stays that way for a long time. I can not tune to any channels. When I go into the diag screen with mute 1-8-4 exit, my FDC is 0MHz. It should be 74MHz for my system. I have no MAC address. I can not get to the menu screen that will let me see the host-id. I try power cycle, card eject, channel scan, and card re-insert. Try this several times and I can not get a host id. At this point I assume that the cable card has "locked out" because it detected a different host id. I also assume that it can not be reset from the head end witout an FDC. Do cablecards do this? I have an SA CC. Anyway, I get Comcast to comeout on Sunday (today). He puts the new card in. Same problem. I never get a good channel lineup and the same firmware upgrade message. FDC says 0MHz. The tech then tells me that he really should not have been sent on a Sunday because he does not have access to the wearhouse. He said he got the card from a fellow tech who had one laying in his truck. I am assuming that this new CC is also "locked out" for a similar reason. He took both cards with him and I am re-scheduled for Tuesday. Am I in for a big problem with firmware upgrade of my TV, or do cablecards really lock themselves out like that? FYI, I am an engineer and have designed CATV system components for in-flight (airplanes with TVs in back of seat). So I understand QAM, MPEG-TS, BER, MER, FDC etc... Not sure on everything with a cablecard, but I think my theory is reasonable. Also, I saw a while back where you were commenting on the signal level shown in the Samsung diag screen where it said 25dBmv. I had a Samsung level 2 CSR(that I was not impressed with) tell me it should have been 55dBmv. I actually think that 24 or 25 is correct because it gives a good 34dB SNR. I understand you think it is way too low. My theory is that the Samsung is reporting the level of an internal AGC stage of its tuner and that it is not really the level of the channel as it enters the TV. That makes more sense. All my channels show about the same level, which would make sense if it is after an AGC stage. (AGC=automatic gain control). |
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TerreHaute-TH Unregistered guest | Been dealing with a Panasonic TH-42PX50U, firmware 1.24 (verifed as current), Motorola CC, TWC in TH, IN. Been at this since mid January with 4 failed installs. The signals are +7 at 3 and +2 at 100(or 103?) and I have talked to Panasonic, and done their over the phone resets). The CC functions correctly except for about 20 digital (not HD) channels. Tomorrow, the cable installer is going to try again. His method, this time, is to program the card at his shop, get it working in a TV at his shop, then take th ecard out and put it in my TV. My questions are this: (1) It this doomed for failure (for example if the TVs are not the same make/model/etc) and (2) is there a reboot/reset that should be performed on the TV after the existing card is removed before the new card is put in. The reason for the second question, is that the Panasonic rep said that the TV keeps some information in memory from the previous attempt unless it is rebooted.. (3) If that is true, then how do you do it.. Thanks.. TH |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 684 Registered: Mar-05 | c b~ Next time you call demand to speak with a supervisor, and when you get to the supervisor, ask them to give you VP on location. I'm pretty confident that they would like to know why you are having the problems you are having. Brent~ wrong thread dude Randy~ thanks for the update ife~ the fact that the FDC is not registering would seem to me there is either a problem with your signal levels at the TV or there is a problem with the TV being able to lock onto it. I'd pick the former before the latter. As far as your need for a software upgrade on your Samsung, I always recommend that you contact the manufacturer and report the problem and also verify there are no software upgrades to resolve issues with CC products. Keep us posted |
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New member Username: BugspkRiver Edge, NJ USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Dec-05 | ife-engineer, You are in the middle of SA CC firmware upgrade. Since the firmware data is sent in Inband Frequency, TV should lock into Inband; therefore FDC (OutOfBand) suppose to be either 0 or blank until firmware upgrade complete. For ESPN HD video problem, I believe video stream is not sent by Head End. You can get both audio and video PID number from [mute] - [1 8 5] - [exit]. Please call Cable company and compare PID numbers. I thought Comcast handled SA firmware upgrade issue last Christmas, but I know TWC and CV are still having hard-time dealing with SA firmware upgrade issue. |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 685 Registered: Mar-05 | but I know TWC and CV are still having hard-time dealing with SA firmware upgrade issue. you know TWC is having a hard time dealing with a firmware upgrade issue where? |
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New member Username: IfeengineerPost Number: 1 Registered: Feb-06 | Well, I got a new cablecard yesterday, and it did not have the firmware upgrade problem. I still have the ESPN HD problem. I agree that I think the video PID is bad. This is the 3rd cable card that has come that way. I have used mute 185 exit and have seen the PIDs. The problem is either the PID or the decrypt keys for the video. I am not sure if they use the same keys for the audio & video. The strange thing is that when the cablecard is installed, the TV automatically recreates its channel list from the cable card. ESPN HD comes in, but is disabled ("delete" in samsung channel list). I can enable it fine, but the video is still blank. The other strange thing is that the channel indicates that it is multi-audio. When I change audio tracks with the MTS button, the second track is no good and the TV says scrambled signal. The tech is going back with the no ESPN HD message. I think I will have to push hard to get them to address it. I think all the cards they are programming must be programmed wrong. This is the 3rd card with the same issue. How can there be no other customers with the same complaint? |
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New member Username: BugspkRiver Edge, NJ USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Dec-05 | Cableguy, Upstate New York (Hudson area), Fort Lee, NJ as well as NY city (I heard that TWC upgrades its firmware before it goes to the customer, but I have seen the issues) Josh, What is the CCI byte for ESPN HD? you can find it from [CableCARD] - [CP screen] - [CCI Byte. If is it not zero (0X00), then this channel is in copy protection. |
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New member Username: IfeengineerPost Number: 2 Registered: Feb-06 | I will check the CCI byte. I am not sure why copy protection should matter except for the video output port of my TV. The cablecard is in the TV, the TV should be able to display copy protected material, but not allow them to be exported on any video out port to be copied. |
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New member Username: IfeengineerPost Number: 4 Registered: Feb-06 | [CableCARD] - [CP screen] Auth status: CP AuthReceived Prog number: 1 CCI byte: 0x00 ECM count: 39 (this one continues to go up the longer you stay on the channel EMM count: 29 Decryption status: OK PowerKey status: Ready EID: 0x4e |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 688 Registered: Mar-05 | Bugspk~ Thanks for clarifying the location, it's best to identify regions when making statements like that, lest people think that means all areas are having that sort of issue. ife~ if you go to ESPN HD, and then go to the SA CableCARD CP Screen (if that is not what channel you were on for the above posted information) if the EID has a bunch of f's folowing the numeric number that channel is not authorized, which would indicate a coding issue with your account. If it doesn't have the f's the channel is authorized and if you are getting ECM's, I'd have somebody verify the channel is working with an HD STB to rule out ingress or QAM break up. |
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New member Username: IfeengineerPost Number: 5 Registered: Feb-06 | cableguy~ The above info is for ESPN HD. I am getting ECMs and the EID is not f's. I have seen the f's on other unauthorized channels. It is not a QAM issue. I have a 33dB SNR and the audio is fine with no break up. You can not corrupt the QAM of a channel and affect video but not audio. I think that the PID is bad or that something is wrong with the ECMs. If you notice in this thread: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-video/106899.html Mike Blasius is having the same problem with TNT HD. I will contact Comcast again today with the PID info. |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 694 Registered: Mar-05 | ife~ you are absolutely correct, and please forgive me for not clarifying my answer. The fffff's indicate the channel is not authorized and therefore you wouldn't be getting any audio or video. You're on the right track, although I have seen video breaking up and not affecting the audio, but that was a different issue and not related to CC's. Keep us posted, I'm eager to see what the end result is. |
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Unregistered guest | Thank you for the interesting reading all. I have recently purchased a Sony KDF-E50A10. Hoping that my CC goes smoothly next week. Atleast I have a starting point for where to go if I should have a problem... Thanks all, maybe all these afore said problems are why I felt I got "a deal" on my HDTV. Im crossing my fingers. Thanks, -Dustin |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 696 Registered: Mar-05 | Dukman...if you have any problems contact Sony, the KDF-E42A10 and the KDF-E50A10 have both been identified by Sony as needing repairs to correct operating conditions. Keep us posted |
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New member Username: Hunter3611New york, New york Usa Post Number: 5 Registered: Feb-06 | hi...lg 50px5d...thought i would add that finely got the cc working...had 3 tech's here over the past week and all 3 said they knew nothing about cablecards however the last guy was able to get some help from his office and they found it was a codeing issue...now...hd programs come in fine but regular cable programs..tbs..tnt..nbc etc are not that sharp was told its due to the tv being a 50 in. bigger picture more distortion???...i know nothing about this cept that the picture is not as clear as my old 27 inch tv...tech also said signal is strong...looked at the diag. screen and it shows snr=0.320db on all channels and signal level 0.0dbmv on all channels...also a emm count 0 on all channels and ecm count shows different numbers on each channels...i also find if i adjust contrast or brightness or sharpness i will loose some hd and reg cable channels till i power off the tv then they all come back on...can anyone help in telling me whats going on..are the signals levels ok... is there a problem with the tv or the cc...thanks |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 698 Registered: Mar-05 | if it's an SA cc, I hear they are having some problems with the TV's losing encrypted channels. Eject the cc from the TV and re-insert it and see if you get your missing channels back again. |
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New member Username: Hunter3611New york, New york Usa Post Number: 6 Registered: Feb-06 | cableguy....yes a sa cc...ive done that several times and the missing channels do come back but are gone again once i try to do any adjustments..sharpness - contrast etc..would i have luck with a differant brand cc or just have twc swap out this card...i removed the cc and tryed some adjustments and it worked fine no lost channels so im thinking a bad cc??? thanks |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 701 Registered: Mar-05 | c b~ you probably don't have an option to try another brand of cc, as I said, I've heard they are having some issues with LG and SA cc's at this point and that's about all I know at this point. I don't think there is anything you can do at this point except wait and see what the two manufacturers work out with the problem. Stay tuned... |
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New member Username: IfeengineerPost Number: 7 Registered: Feb-06 | (re HL-R5067W, single HD channel with good audio and blank video, all other HD channels OK)Well, I finally got to talk to a comcast technical person. He indictated that he thought the problem was the television firmware. I told him that I had talked to Samsung a week or so ago and they denied that there was any firmware available and said it was a cable card issue. I got the comcast guy to agree to swap the card and bring it back to test in the Sony Wega they had in their office. I decided to call Samsung again after that and now they changed their tune. There is a firmware update just coming out now that they are starting to schedule service calls for. So, I will wait and see how that works out before I swap aout another cable card and have comcast test it. Samsung indicated that the SA card must have firmware version 149 or later. My CC diag screen indicates 2.3.149 and Comcast said it was the latest and was 149. |
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New member Username: Hunter3611New york, New york Usa Post Number: 7 Registered: Feb-06 | error 161-8 came up today and twc tells me they dont know what it means..tryed looking within these forums but couldent find anything...has anyone seen this error before.... |
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New member Username: IfeengineerPost Number: 10 Registered: Feb-06 | Here is the CableCard specification: http://www.opencable.com/downloads/specs/OC-SP-CCIF2.0-I04-060126.pdf See pg. 241 & 230: Invalid buffer negotiation -- Card extended channel (buffer size < 16) |
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New member Username: Hunter3611New york, New york Usa Post Number: 8 Registered: Feb-06 | thanks for the info however i have no clue what it means..can you explain...thanks |
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Bronze Member Username: IfeengineerPost Number: 11 Registered: Feb-06 | cb, Well, I would try resetting the cable card from your menu, or re-seating the card. If it comes up consistently and it used to work, then I would say either the CC is bad or the CC interface (PC Card slot) in the TV is bad. If it comes up intermittently, then probably the same thing, sounds like HW. As for the message, it is during the initializion of the cable card that the error was detected. From my brief look at the spec, it does not look like something that you should see unless there is a communication problem on the bus between the CC and the TV. If it was really a firmware problem on the CC or TV, I doubt it would be intermittent or used to work and now it does not. |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 707 Registered: Mar-05 | ife, the trick with the LG is to remove the card and reinsert it...they don't have an option to reset through the menu like the Sony does. CB, basically those error codes indicate the TV detected an operating condition that falls within the guidelines in the parameters of operation. Nice to know your's actually showed an error message, if the reset doesn't fix the card, be sure to contact LG and report that you got the error message, I'm sure their tech/engineers would like to know it appeared. Buffer negotiation out of spec could indicate faulty card, or invalid buffer negotiation between the card and the TV. (pretty much along the lines of what ife said) The key is getting LG and TWC to work together in resolving this matter. Report the problem to LG and let them run with the info. |
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New member Username: NavynowCoronado, California Post Number: 5 Registered: Jan-06 | cableguy, i was wondering if you have any info on the sony wega KD-34XS955. my hd channels are not reliable. the channels go black while watching after 20-30 minutes, then come back. other times i get no signal on some channels but others are fine. i can reset the card and get all the channels, but that gets old. sony refered me to a local repair shop who said it was unfixable. |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 709 Registered: Mar-05 | mark~ unfixable? No such beast exist in my vocabulary. First thing I would do is call Sony back and ask them to esculate the problem to an engineer. It's quite possible you need the interface replaced on your TV, but I'll let Sony tell you what needs to be fixed (they're all starting to run together now). If the TV is under warranty and the repair shop says it's unfixable, I'd be looking back to Sony to replace the TV if it can't be fixed. Sony has shown they are fully behind their product and well bend over to make things right by their customers. Don't settle for the answer you got, I know better and I'm sure other Sony owners can attest to their problems being fixed with minimal hassle. |
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New member Username: NavynowCoronado, California Post Number: 6 Registered: Jan-06 | cableguy. thanks for the reply, I called Sony again and they are researching the issue. They seem committed to at least getting someone out to look at it. I'll keep you posted. |
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New member Username: Hunter3611New york, New york Usa Post Number: 9 Registered: Feb-06 | wanted to mention i only loose a few channels when i do any adjustments like sharpness or contrast etc and reinstalling the card brings the channels back...called LG today and they said they were not aware of this type of problem but they would ok a repair tech to come over and check the tv and that there were no software upgrades for this set -50px5d- also called sa and was told it sounds like a bad card and to have it replaced...so after haveing a twc guy here this past monday and once again being told he knows very little about cc -appointment was made last week to exchange cc hopeing that is were the trouble is- tech dident even have a replacement card with him work order even showed to replace cc...wasent for bad luck ill have none..when the card gets replaced and the problem is still there ill have someone from lg come out and have a look...dont know what else to do....thanks |
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New member Username: C_hallPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 | cableguy and others, A few of us talked about this issue a couple or three months ago...but the problem has returned. I have a Toshiba 46HM95. CC is Scientific-Atlanta. Latest software upgrade for the TV was dated 1/21/06 and shipped to me 2/17/06 - Software Version is Seine 1.3.1. I successfully installed it using the SanDisk sent from Toshiba. My cable provider is TWC - Charlotte region. The problems I had mentioned before included: 1) random loss of audio on some channels 2) random loss of some channels completely 3) random inability to change channels 4) interactive TVGuide would randomly reset itself and search for listings again After this latest software upgrade, everything worked perfectly - for two weeks - the longest duration yet - and suddenly as of yesterday I've lost audio on random channels again. We have already tried: 1) an earlier software update 2) a second CC 3) refreshing the settings through TWC 4) having TWC techs visit (three times) Since this latest disappointment, I called TWC today and a tech will be out this Saturday, March 11. I'm thinking we need a conference call between the TWC tech, a Toshiba rep., and a Scientific-Atlanta rep. for the CC. I am sick of dealing with this. It's been since early December. Ideas? Suggestions? Any insight you (any of you) have to share? |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 714 Registered: Mar-05 | I haven't heard any complaints from anyone who was updated here with 1.3.1. I would suspect there may be a seperate issue going on with your cable lines, but I'll defer that to the tech that is coming out on Saturday. Have them verify your SNR, FDC, and if they have the ability to check the QAM to do so as well. Keep us posted |
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New member Username: C_hallPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-06 | cableguy, SNR, FDC, and QAM all verified and above specs. We tried a third CC today - Scientific Atlanta - I'm beginning to think this might be the issue. Here's what the tech told me we're going to do from here: - I have the latest software 1.3.1. from Toshiba - I have the latest CC from Scientific Atlanta - TWC tech has confirmed lines are excellent As of today, the analog channels have audio, but the digital channels do not. I'm calling Toshiba today to inform them of where we currently stand on all sides. If they have no other suggestions, then the TWC tech who came out today, who also happens to be the lead tech for my county, will speak with his supervisor Monday morning so we can determine the next route to take - as of this month, this problem has been ongoing for 4 months without resolution. The TWC tech believes that Toshiba will send me their own CC that will fix the issues. He recalls another customer with a different television manufacturer who did this and the issues were resolved. I just find it strange that Toshiba would send me a CC. Any suggestions at this point, cableguy? As always, I'll keep you all posted. |
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New member Username: Rf_techPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-06 | I have a question for your tv manufacturer! Is that model compatible for your cable companies FDC and RDC(forward data carrier) and(return data carrier)in Mhz? You will need to find this out. Some TV companies block frequencies so that over the air programming does not bleed into the picture and cause ghosting. So for example; if the range is 55.250 Mhz to 750Mhz and the return for the cable provider is 15Mhz, the card would eventually go into bradcast mode and start shutting off audio and video for certain channels; especially channels above 100. |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 720 Registered: Mar-05 | RF tech~ This is for a CableCard TV, which currently are only 1-way, the RDC has nothing to do with it. Any CC TV works with any brand of CC, so I'm not sure why you would ask if it is compatible. C.Hall~ That's a strange one, unless there is something in the tag stream blocking the audio, which is highly unlikely. I don't know of anything Toshiba could send you short of a software upgrade, no they can't send you a CC, at least not that I'm aware of. I'm waiting to hear your follow-up on this one, as that is news to me. Thanx |
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New member Username: FrewwbPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 | After trying several STBs, the last one SA 3300, I've decided to get the Cable Card activated on my sxrd 50" Sony. With either the Pace HD box or the SA 3300 I found that I was getting gray bars instead of the black ones on the none HD stations. In addition there was a 1/2 to 1" wide vertical black bar on the left on just the stations from about 2-22. I've connected up directly to the TV now and I only get the normal black bars for non-HD stations. I tried all combination of settings, 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i. With the 480i turned on I even got gray and black bars with the image aspect ratio narrowed on the non-HD stations. I could correct it with the zoom but the gray bars stayed My question is: was the box sending out the gray bars? Will I get these with the cable card? Over time could the non-moving gray bars cause any burn-in damage. Connected directly I don't get them and the picture of course is much sharper so it seems like it was both boxes doing it. I have TWC cable in San Diego and was using component video cables. Oh and the SA 3300 HD DVR box is a total energy hog using 28 watts 24 hrs a day. The Pace at only 15 watts was at least better. I've heard the Sony cable card uses about 19 watts for those that might care to know. It might not seem like much but these phantom loads can add up fast. Thanks for you help. |
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New member Username: Say_whatPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 | I am unable to find anything even close to a 3300HD DVR on SA's website, so suggestions may or may not apply. I have an 8300HD DVR, and if you hit the settings button on the SA remote twice, you can scroll down to, Set: TV Borders. There are light, medium, and dark options available. May change what you are seeing, but as you see this with 2 different STBs, you might want to look to your TV settings menu. Your post doesn't say how you are connecting the STB, but if using component inputs, analog picture quality does suffer, and you have to deal with borders. On my 8300, I connected an S-Video cable, and use this to watch analog, and regular digital channels. I get a much sharper, full screen picture. |
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New member Username: FrewwbPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-06 | Thanks Say What. At the end of the paragraph I did say I was using component. I tried dvi and the cable box would work sometimes and other times would say that my TV doesn't support HDCP. I found out here later that I needed to always turn on the TV first and then the cable box to prevent this from happening. Their isn't an option for the borders in the TV and I didn't find it in the STB but I probably missed it. You're probably correct about the model, I just got it new yesterday and didn't even see it on TWC website. The excessive 24 hr power consumption, at least for me, is enough to want to go to the cable card. And I need to make things simple for my wife so the s-video option requiring her to switch things, however simple for us, just wouldn't fly with her. I appreciate your help! Thanks |
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New member Username: Rf_techPost Number: 3 Registered: Mar-06 | If all cctv's were compatible with all cc then we would be in a better place with all the posts. Cable guy you are right about the cc being 1 way, but the signal still needs to meet certain requirements. One thought would be to place a two way splitter at the outlet. place a digital box on one side the card on the other. pull up the diag. screen for the box, while the cable rep is there and ask him to find out from the head end what the outlet specs should be for the outlet so that the card will work at its best. |
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New member Username: Rf_techPost Number: 4 Registered: Mar-06 | C Hall The tv manufacturers send out software updates for some cctv models! It is just reaching the right person. |
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Silver Member Username: CableguyDeep in the ... U.S. Post Number: 725 Registered: Mar-05 | RF Tech~ I think I've made it very clear about the signal levels hitting the TV when using a cc. Operating specs are +15/-15 with optimum being 0. As for placing a two way splitter to feed a STB to gather information from the diagnostic screen, there are screens hidden in the TV menus that tell you all the information you need to know about what the TV is detecting signal-wise. If you don't know how to access them and more importantly how to determine what is good and what is bad, you need to ask somebody at your company how to get that information. I have been able to prove at least once that comparing a STB to a cc doesn't validate where the problem is originating, so don't always rely on your past training. I strongly emphasize this issue with regards to STB's vs cc's, just because it's working with a STB and not with a cc, it doesn't always indicate the problem is the TV or the cc, the problem still can be signal related, coding. Keep an open mind to these problems, one day you will have one prove this theory fact. |
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New member Username: JabzzPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-06 | hey, i just got a Samsung HLR.... ive had a visit from the cable company to try and install a Scientific Atlanta cable card, after an hour of waiting of a constant "updating channel list" message, the guy switched the card. this card went through and gave him the host ID and whatever else, then it went into "Updating Firmware in Progress" message, and is been there for almost 4 or 5 hours. now i dont know what the issue is, as this is the only message i can get. Can someone give me a heads up, or point me in the right direction..how would i start troubleshooting.. i know how to get to the diagnostic screens, however i dont understand much of whats written...any info would be appreciated. Stan |
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Bronze Member Username: IfeengineerPost Number: 14 Registered: Feb-06 | I think that the Samsung HLRs have a problem when trying to update the CC firmware. You need to get your cable company to bring out a cable card that already has the latest firmware loaded on it. I had the same problem. |
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New member Username: WanabtechPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | I also am a tech. In our area, if it's a sony... we breathe easy. If its a samsung, then we go through the motions and make darn sure that signal levels are what we need as well as being clean signal. We have not been able to get the first Samsung to work properly in our area. What we typically see, is sporatic HD channels, and lower digitals with audio & no video. We do use SA cards. There was a recall on SA's cards last year. To my understanding, if the card has a manufacturer date after 9/2006, then they're ok. Reason for the recall, was a firmware upgrade. From what I've been told, is that most cable providers struggle with the working of CC's due to tv manufacturer's not having a standard by which they have to adhere too. Let's face it, the gov't crammed this CC idea down the throats of provider's and shook the hands of TV manufacturer's. Bottom line is that the techs in customer's homes are the ones left looking stupid. A customer doesn't want to hear that their $4000 dollar plasma doesn't work with the CC. Not my tv, must be you guys. I've seen it far too many times. Another thing that is frustrating is all the different manufacturers hide the cc info differently within their menu setup. Most are pretty easy to find, but some of these off brands can be a pain in the butt. Another customer expectation, you mean you don't know where its at!?! You work on tv's!?! No sir (mam), I work on RF. Sorry to do some venting, but I've pretty much had it with these CC's. |
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New member Username: RigpigPost Number: 4 Registered: Jan-06 | very confused... but happy Ref: LG 50PX4DR Plasma TV & Cox Cable - SA Cable Card I have been waiting for LG to find a Local Technician to come and check our TV for about 4 weeks. And I have been checking the TV channels, just for the "heck of it" Wow much to my surprise The HD channels & premium channels have started to work ! We now receive all the channels, It's like it fixed itself ? There was one night it stopped working, but thanks to reading this forum, I ejected the card and re-inserted it, and viola channels again ! I would still like LG to send someone out to check that everything is up to date, and will continue to wait. I can't help but think the problems were all caused by the cable company. At any rate, this is just an on-going update for all the LG owners |
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New member Username: Say_whatPost Number: 3 Registered: Mar-06 | jabzz In line with what Ifeengineer said, Samsung informed us their TVs will not work properly if the CC has anything below 1.49 firmware. These are also the same folks who, when I contacted their customer service last year after seeing the exact same problem on 4 cards said, "Only 4, you have to try a dozen or more to find one that works". We had not ever had to use anything close to that number on any other brand. Our test Tv is a Samsung, and works fine. Amazingly, Samsung issued an upgrade for the model we were having the problems with soon after that install, and then the 1.49 revelation. I do not see anything available for the HLRs. As James stated there was an issue early 05 with 1.48 CCs, but all cards manufactured beginning in May 05 were shipped with 1.49. Card should have a date on it, also should be able to see firmware version on the TV CC menu, if it is not downloading code. Preloading is an option if system is lucky enough to have a set to do it. Our controller was initially set to upgrade every CC when 1.49 came out, and it would attempt to upgrade a CC that was already 1.49. This was a nightmare, particularly with Panasonics that would never complete a download. After the settings were changed to only upgrade CCs we wanted done, life was much better. Hopefully, your system does not have the controller set to upgrade all cards, as I am not sure preloading would work around this. 1.49p1 was issued end of last year to deal with split channel issues. Not all systems have split channels, so some systems chose not to install it. Unlike James, Sony sets are our headache. They install fine, but problems come later. 161-6 errors, and channels coming up unavailable. Fortunately, Sony, Panasonic, and most every other manufacturer for that matter, have fixes available now for the issues we have had. Good luck. |
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New member Username: WanabtechPost Number: 2 Registered: Apr-06 | I have only saw that 161-6 error on 1 Sony TV. Ironically, we've been there 2x on t/c after install. 1st time our data ctr said it was a card failure. 2nd time they said it was a Sony issue. We also have good luck panasonic. I have also learned that Hitachi's using software under version 1.36 won't work. I just done an install on an HP LCD3700 today. It went well. These tv's are unique in that their analog & digital tuners require separate feeds, thus requiring a 2way behind the tv. ;-) |
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New member Username: JabzzPost Number: 3 Registered: Mar-06 | Say What? thanks for the info, i found out about the 1.49 firmware from calling Samsung tech support. They said Samsungs have a problem with updating the CC. They said the best way around it, is to have the CC with 1.49 firmware already installed on it, and they couldnt help me otherwise. I called my Cable Tech about this, and he told me the problem is that he doesnt know which of the CC have the new firmware and which dont..also..i can just as easily get the HD set top box..if the CC dont work..its just that the cable tech told me that the quality of picture with CC is a little better....is this true? P.S.: btw to all you cable tech's out there, im one of those people who understands that its not the Techs fault..i am a techy myself just in a different area. I spent almost 10 hours with the first cable tech that was here and then i let him go, and gave him a tip.where most people would be flipping out...thanks to all you cable techs out there. |
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New member Username: WanabtechPost Number: 3 Registered: Apr-06 | CC's have no ability to amplify signal. Their sole purpose is to descramble digital channels. Basically, they look at the channels, see what you're paying for and decode those channels. As far as the firmware, any card (as best as I've been told) that is dated 9/05 or newer is ok. I got that straight from Scientific Atlanta tech on a conference call. What it appears to me that the Samsung TV's are doing is this: After the card has been entered into the DNCS, and married up in the billing system, it's almost as soon as the tv tuner finds 1 dig. channel out of the quam, it moves to the next quam. Sometimes quam's will carry 8-10 channels ( not sure exactly ), but it finds 1 channel and just skips by the others. What you end up with is 1 channel off of every quam with audio & video, and the others with just audio. I've seen this on multiple Samsung tv's and various models. Kinda hard to fault the card like this. I don't know, I just wish they would get together on this. |
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