Now Onkyo 770 Returns Begin - Tried To Warn You !
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Bronze Member Username: Matthew2582Raymore, MO United States Post Number: 25 Registered: Jun-04 | So - now we see how all those people who have been falling all over themselves in the rush to find "cheap" 770's and who failed to do what I have been urging for a while - to critically audition the really quite mediocre speaker system - are now returning systems. Why ? Because they were so disappointed in the sound. As I said when I evaluated this system - nice receiver, poorly made speakers - resonant cabinets, cheap speaker components and crossover - colored sound, boomy bass. Geez guys and gals ! If only you had taken along some good dem music and LISTENED - you would have saved yourself the disappointment and the return trip to CC or wherever. I take no pleasure in people being disappointed with their purchase and I am sure there will be many who are happy with their purchase. But for those who haven't followed this totally overblown Stampede into the 760/770 thing - go listen to the Athena Micra6's, Athena Point5's, Polk RM6700's and Onkyo's gorgeous SKS-HT240's. And for all those who have emailed me about the 240's availability - Onkyo tells me they should be getting into retailers week beginning July 26th. Regards Matthew |
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Freakoid Unregistered guest | Hey Matthew. I've been reading your various posts and have come to respect your insights. Several months ago I decided upon the 601 receiver with the 520 speakers. Finally I am in a positon to be able to make the purchase. However, during a last minute Google of that particular receiver I learned about this forum, as well as the details about the new 502 receiver, and the 770 HTiB. Now I find myself in that frustrating state of indecision. The 770 set looks appealing, as I do not have a speaker set. Any thoughts on how the 502 receiver compares to the receiver that is included in the 770 package (In other posts you have stated that you feel it is superior, but why?) Might it be worth waiting for the 602 when it is inevitably released? And as far as speakers are concerned, you continually hail the SKS-HT240's. Are they really that much better than the speakers included with the 770 or the 510/520's?? Why? I have read that you are of the opinion that yes, someone can purchase a 770 HTiB package, but for nearly the same amount of money someone can put together a far superior system. Just curious what you might ultimately suggest to someone with a price range between $500 - $700. Thanks in advance. |
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Loving life Unregistered guest | I've had the 770 for about 3 weeks and it is sensational. Of course, there are better systems. This is my first system. For the money, nothing beats it -- not even close. If you would to spend more money, go ahead. I'd rather put it towards vacation, car, dinner out, DVD's and thousands of other things. |
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Bronze Member Username: Matthew2582Raymore, MO United States Post Number: 27 Registered: Jun-04 | With regards to posts from Feakoid and Loving Life. First to L/Life - I am glad that you are happy with your purchase - that's the important thing ! I would say in general about this system - that people who have purchased it will find it quite acceptable IF their main interest is in movie matching. Most film soundtracks do not expose speaker deficiencies. But people who listen to a lot of music will find the 520 speakers to be lacking in high-end detail and a colored mid-range. Bass performance lacks dynamic accuracy and is very much of a 'one-note' quality - i.e. bass transient information is not reproduced accurately, at all. To Freakoid - I think the 502 is just fine. No need to wait for a possible release of the 602. I believe that the 502 has a superior design to the receiver packaged with the 770 particularly with regards to WRAT (Wide Range Amplifier Technology. Yes I am struck by the 240's. They are stunningly attractive - have a look at the reviews on CNET for the 240's and Onkyo's high-end HTIB - the LS-V955 to see what they look like and what the reviewers think of their sound quality. You can hear these at Circuit City. Their sound signature is TOTALLY different to the 770's 520 speakers. Where the 520's are overly warm and lacking high-end and mid-range detail, the 240's are very dynamic and crisp. There are other choices to consider in that price range - the Athena Micro6's are superb as well. By the way - to those readers who have emailed me - I do not work for Onkyo (!) and my background is that I used to be a reviewer for the British hi-fi mags - HiFi Answers and What HiFi. Additionally, I used to import Monster, Dahlquist and Klipsch into the UK many moons ago. Which doesn't mean anything at all - as it is YOU who should go and critically evaluate your proposed purchases ! Regards Matthew |
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loving life Unregistered guest | Music sounds great on the 770! Clear, lots of highs and lows. Couldn't be happier. But then maybe I don't have audiophile standards. For the vast majority of music listeners, I think the 770 is a sure winner. (The great thing about Circuit City is that you can buy it, take it home, audition it, and if not satisfied, you have 30 days to return it for a full refund/credit. There's no risk in trying it out). |
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loving life Unregistered guest | I know consumer reviews are not gospel, but look at the reviews on the Circuit City website for the HTS-770 versus LS-V955. No comparison. |
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edster922 Unregistered guest | dear loving life, err, I hate to tell you this, but Circuit City's user reviews are some of the most UTTERLY BOGUS on the Internet...90% of them probably written by CC Marketing Department employees, they're so one-sided and uncritical. How do I know this? I've tried on several occasions to post blistering negative reviews on products that I bought and found atrocious...and whaddaya know, CC's website NEVER posted them! More trustworthy reviews can be found at cnet.com, epinions.com, and audioreview.com to name a few. |
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Bronze Member Username: Matthew2582Raymore, MO United States Post Number: 30 Registered: Jun-04 | Whoah Loving Life - steady on there. Are you trying to suggest that the 770 must be better than the LVS-955 on the strength of consumer reactions posted on CC ? First off - the LVS-955 review "rating" was polluted by some clown who gave it a rating of 1 !!! Trust me - the LVS-955 is sonically and aesthetically in a totally different ball park to the 770. And so it should - it is substantially more expensive.Of course, the CNET review, just posted in the last day, of the LVS-955 supports my view exactly. Look - the 770 is probably the best HTIB at its price compared to most of the other All-In-One things- BUT - you can put together a better system buying separates for a similar price. No - not for $ 355 - sure. But at around $550-650 - yes, without doubt. But at the end of the day - if your interests are primarily movies and you are pleased, then I am truly content for you. Best regards Matthew |
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loving life Unregistered guest | Edster - How can you say negative consumer comments aren't posted on CC's website? CC's posting a consumer's rating of "1" for the LVS-955 (mentioned by Matthew) indicates otherwise. I doubt that such a rating was from a CC marketing department employee. |
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loving life even more now Unregistered guest | Matthew - CNET's rating for the LVS-955 is 8.0. CNET's rating for the HTS 760 (HTS 770's predecessor) is 8.3, earning it CNET's Editor's Choice Award. Interesting considering, as you know, the 770 costs several hundred dollars less than the LVS-955. |
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edster922 Unregistered guest | loving life, I do admit they let a few negative reviews get through now and then, but usually for most of their products (except for the really cheap cheap low-end ones they probably want to steer you away from anyways) Circuit City pads the review tally with tons of 1-3 sentence cheerleader reviews, along the lines of: "Great! You must buy this! It sounds awesome!" which of course grossly inflates the "average score" rating of the product. |
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Freakoid Unregistered guest | <snip> I believe that the 502 has a superior design to the receiver packaged with the 770 particularly with regards to WRAT (Wide Range Amplifier Technology. <snip> Matthew - I'm not sure I follow what you mean by this. It seems that both receivers include WRAT. How is the WRAT with 502 superior? |
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Therrien Matthew Unregistered guest | Matthew, I don't know what your beef is with the 770 but your opinion on this system is not of the norm. For everyone looking for a $400-500 all in one, this is an excellent system and bargain for the price. Obviously there are better systems out there but this is not designed and marketed for the audiophiles out there. First off, you say you used to do reviews for some European magazines?? If so, what the hell are you buying a HTiB for?? You would think, someone that has such a keen sense of hearing such as yourself, would prefer a more higher quality setup. Why don't you go comment on some $10,000 speakers in the Speaker forum and quit crappin on the 770 in every thread. |
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Bronze Member Username: Matthew2582Raymore, MO United States Post Number: 32 Registered: Jun-04 | I am flattered that someone who resents my attempts to provide some balanced commentary on HTIB performance would choose to spoof my name ! I have repeatedly said that many people will be quite happy with their 770 purchase, especially if their interests are primarily movies. But most readers here and the many people who email me for ideas/suggestions are quite appreciative to hear about some of the 770 characteristics. The fact is - everything I say you can disagree with. I have urged that people ACTUALLY demo this system (and any others on their list) with some quality demo music and decide for themselves. Your abusive tone doesn't change the fact that the 770 speaker construction is poor - just rap the cabinets and examine the components used. And it also doesn't change the fact that many people have returned the system for precisely the kinds of reasons I have been mentioning. My purpose hasn't been to upset people like you - but simply to point out some other alternatives. Regards Matthew |
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Anonymous | i have to also agree that your constant bashing of the 770 is starting to get quite annoying. for an all in one system at that price, it can't be beat. In fact it sounds far better than some far more expensive systems that i have heard that have been compiled. i also don't know of a single soul who has bought it and has even considered returning it. I respect and appreciate your opinions, but its clear that you are a part of a very small minority that shares your view of the 770. |
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also anon Unregistered guest | "the returns have begun" ???? How many people do you know?? Do you monitor Circuit city returns for the entire country?? |
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Mehta Unregistered guest | I've had the 770 for two weeks now and I love it. I wouldn't even dream of returning it!! And I think people who don't own the 770 do not really know the pleasure of listening to it....and that too at such a reasonable price. Equally priced systems or even higher priced ones have 1% thru 10% THD as compared to 770's 0.08%. Speaking about speakers, they are powerful enough providing crisp sound. Base is throbbing too, I have set my sub at 3/4 level and sub db to zero...volume turned up half way is sufficient. The system is excellent not only for movies (even movies on video cassettes in NeoCinema mode sound like dolby), but also for music cds. So people, if your ears are satisfied, you are satisfied...what more can you ask for. Just ignore the comments (comments are by non-owners and reviews by owners) and enjoy your evenings with gratifying sound. Thanks for reading. |
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R F Unregistered guest | This is for Matthew..... Hey...some people can care less if the bass on the subwoofer isnt accurate. Some people just want loud thundering, roof shaking bass and can care less how accurrate it is. I want bass that is so loud and thundering that when a scary part of a movie comes it just scares me so bad that i piss my pants. And again i can care less how accurate bass is on the Onkyo HT-S770, i just want loud thundering bass which this system does have...because i heard it in the store. |
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New member Username: Mp906Post Number: 8 Registered: Jul-04 | This system just plain kicks butt at $499. |
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New member Username: NoobPost Number: 3 Registered: Aug-04 | My father has been in the audio engineering business for years (professionally), working both locally and regionally. While it goes without mention, his ears have been methodically (for lack of a better word) trained over twenty + years of experience. He continually points out that it's extremely important to recognize that there are speakers designed to pick up on any inconsistencies or variances; that is, speakers that are essentially unforgiving and that there are speakers designed to create a warm, crisp, pleasant sound. I've owned the Onkyo HTS-770 for about a week now and needless to say, I'm entirely impressed and satisfied. The sound may not be as precise as the equipment my father uses, but it's certainly a much fuller, enjoyable sound -- and he agrees. In short, the provided speakers do their job and do it extremely well - if you ask me. Or him. |
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Unregistered guest | Hey Matthew, I appreciate your comments regarding the 770HTS. I almost bought the 770 HTS yesterday, but hesistated because of the sound quality, which I agree with you is mediocre. So I had the Circuit City sales guy substitute the two front speakers with two Bose 201s. What a difference. Definately a killer sound. Adding the two Bose speakers and an Onkyo 701 DVD player to the 770 system brought the total up to around a grand. I'm wondering if you can suggest a better way to put together a good system. By the way, I can't find the SKS 240 speakers on the Onkyo website. Are they discontinued? I appreciate any advice. |
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Unregistered guest | P.S. I only want speakers that can fit on a bookshelf. |
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Bronze Member Username: Matthew2582Raymore, MO United States Post Number: 38 Registered: Jun-04 | Daniel - Yes, well - as I have been trying to tell people - don't get carried away by the price - listen to the sound quality - using good quality AUDIO test material. I loved one of the Matthew-bashers who said that he could - quoting RF - "care less if the bass on the subwoofer isnt accurate". Anyway - the SKS-HT240's are most definitely on www.onkyousa.com's site ! And you can hear them at Circuit City - they usually have the Onkyo Envision 955 5.1 system set up for demo. The 240's are the same (and yes they look gorgeous and fit on bookshelves)but the 240's are a SIX speaker version of the LVS955 system. For a grand - I would shortlist the following : Receivers - Onkyo 502 and Denon 1804 - Denon wins this one but it's close. Speakers - Athena Micra's or Athena Point 5's (hear them at Best Buy) Onkyo SKS-HT 240's DVD Player - Onkyo DVD 301 or 501 (701 is discontinued - plus who really needs a 5 disc changer ?) You will have superb looking & sounding system for well under your budget. Oh and you don't need Monster cables - plenty of good or better and certainly cheaper interconnects out there ! Good luck Matthew |
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New member Username: WakerNorth Kingstown, Rhode Island Post Number: 1 Registered: Sep-04 | I am a newbie here and luckily found this forum. I am trying to find an HT system (in a box or components). I am also trying very hard to separate out intelligent comment from the "others". I have found Matthew's comments and advice to be reasoned, intelligent and sensible. The goal of trying to get great sound and a good system for under a thousand is where I'm at. My other criterion, imposed by my wife, friend and co-listener(all one person) is very small speakers. We presently have old and large Klipschs and she wants DOWNSIZE!!!). Where do I go? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 1345 Registered: Dec-03 | How small are we talking about? What's the budget? |
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New member Username: WakerNorth Kingstown, Rhode Island Post Number: 2 Registered: Sep-04 | Smaller the better - goal is to spend less than $1,000 |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 1347 Registered: Dec-03 | That is going to be a pretty tall order going from Klipsch Try getting 5 of these ascend CBM-170's, very nice speakers on the smallish size! http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170.html |
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New member Username: WakerNorth Kingstown, Rhode Island Post Number: 3 Registered: Sep-04 | If it was easy, I could probably figure it out! I may have to make some sacrifice in size |
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Bronze Member Username: Matthew2582Raymore, MO United States Post Number: 41 Registered: Jun-04 | For Alan Brockman - thanks for the nice words. I try to put forward accurate assessments of a system's musicality and stay reasonably on-budget when offering suggestions. The system I mentioned a few posts above, with either the Denon or Onkyo receivers and any of the Athena Micra's, Point5mkII's or Onkyo 240's will give you a stylish and musically enjoyable, as well as compact system. By the way - what are your old Klipsch's that you are downsizing - if they are La Scala's or K-Horns I would be interested - both are amazing classics which when paired with a nice tube amp provide the most breathtaking transient performance of ANY speaker EVER made ! Regards Matthew |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 1354 Registered: Dec-03 | Allan, It is never easy especially when coupled with the parameters set with WAF. You may also want to check out theses offerings from Axioms |
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New member Username: WakerNorth Kingstown, Rhode Island Post Number: 4 Registered: Sep-04 | The Klipschs I have are, I believe, Heresy. The label is faded(sun, I guess). They are 15 1/4" wide, 13 1/2" deep and 21 1/4" high. Separate question - what do you know about thw Wharfedale Moviestar 70 system? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 1358 Registered: Dec-03 | Oy, the Wharfedale Moviestar! A friend of mine was wondering about this system and we checked out a set last weekend. We were so disappointed that Wharfedale even put their name on this garbage. It sounded very similar to the KLH package we saw at BestBuy(doesn't matter what model  ). The high frequencies sounded very weak and the mids are totally unrefined. The bass module is okay but still weak. I think they are trying to get a feel for the HT all in one deals and boy, did they feel wrong! Stay away from this one, we were so surprised at how inexpensive it was and after a few minutes of listening ( we had to give it a chance, we adjusted and fiddled) we didn't even bother trying to take it home for an audition. It turned out to be cheap! I'm sorry if you directed this question to Matthew and I stepped in. I like Wharfedales and given the right power from a decent receiver, their Diamond series are great. cheers |
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New member Username: WakerNorth Kingstown, Rhode Island Post Number: 5 Registered: Sep-04 | Thanks very much, Berny - that's exactly the input I needed. Once again, if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. |
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NA_NYC Unregistered guest | Mathew, What would you suggest for a budget of $500, that would be better than HTS770. I was considering buying the system. But, if there are options that can provide better quality at a comparable price, I would like to consider them. Thank you. NA |
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Bronze Member Username: Matthew2582Raymore, MO United States Post Number: 43 Registered: Jun-04 | This is for NA_NYC. Look - here's the deal. A Home Theater System has to provide the purchaser with a satisfying experience with both DVD and audio sources. So - all of my columns here on ecoustics.com are dedicated to ONE piece of advice. Take along a demanding, revealing piece of DVD/Audio demo material and listen for yourself. Let me give you and all readers a really good example - if you listen to Dire Straight's "Private Investigations" track from their 'Very Best of Dire Straits' - there is a very quiet part of the track where a milk bottle breaks on some stairs in the distant background. Now - if the system you are auditioning doesn't reveal the 'broken bottle' - then - you can conclude that the system is inaccurate in resolving subtle dynamic detail. I don't expect everybody to go out and buy Dire Straits - but maybe you get the underlying point ?? So - sorry for the tangent but I wanted to ampify my methodology when it comes to evaluating audio components. The Onkyo 770 cannot be beaten - at this moment - for sub-$500 except... that it can. I have spent some time listening to a really quite astonishingly good Samsung/Klipsch system for $249 which includes a 5 disc carousel changer. This is a discontinued experiment from Samsung and Klipsch which can still be found at www.bhphotovideo.com. The B&H product ref for this system is SAHTSK5 - FYI. But - as there are few of these babies to be found - I guess the Onkyo is the best buy at the moment. Regards Matthew |
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New member Username: WakerNorth Kingstown, Rhode Island Post Number: 6 Registered: Sep-04 | This may not even be the right forum but I have been receiving great advice. How would you compare the Onkyo 601 receiver with the Yamaha RX-V650. A quick, possibly not necessarily thorough, response would be very helpful |
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Bronze Member Username: Ben805Post Number: 23 Registered: Aug-04 | most Home Theatre in Box under $1500 are junk, I went through two sets of Sony then Onkyo 770 in the past few weeks, own each set for about a week and returned them all, it's very fatique and painful to listen to those stuff for extended period of time, even at moderate level. Do yourself a favor and save your hard-earn cash for something much better, if you're on budget...you can get the Onkyo 601 receiver for $349 and it's rated at 85w x5, get a pair of Atom bookshelf for $169~$179 as your main speaker, get the 10" Velodyne VX-10 for $100, or step up to the Velogyne CHT 10 for $179. for a bit over $600 you have a much better 2.1 system to get you by temporary, and still able to rumble your house and wake up all your neighbors, when you have more money then add the center and surround speakers to complete the entire setup, you could have a MUCH MUCH MUCH better home theatre setup for well under $1000 and still able to enjoy your music comfortably for years of enjoyment to come. Keep this in mind, nowaday you don't need to pay mega bucks for close-to-audiophile quality equipments, and dont' expect to find them at your typical BestBuy or Circuit City chain store either. |
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