Onkyo TX-SR705
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Silver Member Username: CclashhPost Number: 389 Registered: Jan-08 | Bad news for Onkyo. I recently connected a nintendo Wii via Component to my Onkyo TX-SR705 receiver with the output going thru hdmi out to the TV. The pretense is that the receiver should upgrade the 480p output from the Wii via component to 720p and provide improvement to the picture. In fact, exactly the opposite happened. When connected to the receiver the output from the gaming system was significantly degraded as compared to connecting the system directly to a component input on the TV. Going thru the receiver the colors and detail were kind of washed out and not as vibrant as when the unit is connected directly to the TV. I ended up just using the receiver for the sound by connecting female to female connectors to the analog sound cables coming from the Wii and then attaching a 6 foot analog cable from there to an analog input on the receiver. The Wii is connected directly to a component input on the TV. |
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Silver Member Username: JrbayLivonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA Post Number: 712 Registered: Feb-08 | Hey Jeff, How are you? Been a while! This issue has come up several times and it sure would be nice to get a definitive answer on it. My take is that the "upconversion" simply allows a composite, S-Video, and in some, not all (unfortunately), cases a component video signal to be transferred via HDMI. If that is the case then I would expect no real "improvement" to the picture quality but I certainly would not be happy about any degradation. From the Onkyo website: "Faroudija DCDi Edge Technology Deinterlacing chips featuring Faroudja DCDi Edge technology convert interlaced video signals to progressive scan signals. This technology helps effectively eliminate video artifacts from HDTV images." "HDMI Video Upconversion Converts incoming composite, S-Video signals (like a VCR to S-Video equipped TV), and component signals all the way to HDMI on most models." ON MOST MODELS??? What's that all about?? What seems to confuse the issue further is potentially the artifacts eliminated are what makes the difference you are seeing and may not necessarily be perceived for the better. One could easily equate this to the tube amp vs solid state amp / digital vs analog argument that no one has won yet!!! The true test then would be connecting the Wii to the receiver, connecting the receiver to the TV via both the existing HDMI and an additional set of component cables, make sure the picture settings are the same for both inputs on the TV (a very likely cause of this concern) and carefully check the picture from both inputs. One would expect to see the same difference as you see now. Right, or no??? If there is a difference, and the industry insists on producing receivers that do not "upconvert" component signals as well as PASS THROUGH HDMI (another MAJOR gripe I have) what is the %@#$*$%^* point of HDMI??? |
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Silver Member Username: CclashhPost Number: 390 Registered: Jan-08 | Hi Jim, I am doing good -you? My receiver does not support Faroudja so I cannot say one way or the other what difference that would make -good or bad. It does however upconvert component signals in this case 480p to 720p. I have exhaustively compared the difference between going thru the receiver and going directly to the TV and its noticably different. Even my wife could tell and she is no technical expert. The kicker for me is that the picture should at least be the same not less vibrant and detailed. I don't really care how it would look using a component out from the receiver because there would be no reason to do that as it would not eliminate the need to use more than one input on the TV. In other words if I cannot get it on hdmi out then I don't want it because that would be the only reason I would go thru the Receiver in the first place. Ultimately I have paid for a feature that I thought (shame on me) was going to get me out of the dark ages of using TV inputs and Receiver inputs to control the system. I was not necesarily expecting improvement but definitely not lesser in quality. I have sort of compensated for having to use inputs on the TV and receiver with a Logitech Harmony 510 remote that supports macros and makes it possible to press only one button on the remote for any of the programed activities so my wife and daughter can use the system without getting confused. I guess the next question to answer would be am I experiencing lower quality by swiching HDMI with the receiver??? |
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Silver Member Username: JrbayLivonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA Post Number: 713 Registered: Feb-08 | Work is slow Jeff but I am doing very well thank you. I have signed up with zipinstalls to see if I can't get a few more projects. Whatever you have into the Onkyo via HDMI could be switched to the TV to tell you that and I am seriously hoping you see no difference!!! BTW - Just a minor point but according to this: http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR705&class=Receiver&p=i your receiver should have Faroudja. |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 2439 Registered: Feb-04 | Hey Jeff, how ya doin? You have brought up an interesting question here. I've been doing a little research and have some conclusions. Maybe I'm missing something, but for the life of me I cannot see where Onkyo promises 480 to 720 conversion on its HDMI output. They do use the word "upconversion", with the implication being that the nasty old-fasioned analog signal gets transcoded to digital and somehow gets improved. As Jim has (I think correctly) stated, "My take is that the "upconversion" simply allows a composite, S-Video, and in some, not all (unfortunately), cases a component video signal to be transferred via HDMI. If that is the case then I would expect no real "improvement" to the picture quality but I certainly would not be happy about any degradation." In fact, on page 27 of the owner's manual, there is an interesting statement: For optimal video performance, THX recommends that video signals pass through the system without upconversion (e.g., component video input through to component video output). It's also recommended that you set the Immediate Display preference to Off (page 93). |
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Silver Member Username: CclashhPost Number: 392 Registered: Jan-08 | Hi John, I am doing alright -thanks! -You? Work is hard -understaffed and overworked  I guess you also raise an interesting question that deserves more research on my part. My understanding is that there are different levels of upconversion that occur with the receiver based on the type of input they recieve. In this case my understanding was that all it would do with component is upconvert to 720p but that when receiving via hdmi that the receiver was capable of even greater increases in resolution. Now that I think about it I am not sure if I am basing my understanding on a popularly held belief or if it is something that is actually being promised by the manufacturer so I guess it deserves more research on my part but even if I were to determine that I was getting the exact same resolution from the receiver that I am inputing to the receiver that still does not explain the loss of quality to the picture. It was a mistake on my part to begin with to raise the point because ultimately whether or not its upconverting from 480p to 720p is really unimportant when considering the loss of quality because either way the pictue should at least be the same as when connected directly to the TV. As far as the THX recomendation I am not convinced that their specification is pertinent to the matter at hand. I seriously doubt that they are suggesting that if you do not comply with the recommendation that you are going to see the results that I am observing. While I believe that what they suggest could be an optimal setup I do not think that the optimal setup suggested means if you do not that the picture is going to suck as compared to using hdmi. Maybe I am wrong but it really does not matter because such a setup would not really be any different than the setup I have wound up with. I would also be quite disapointed if this were actually true because if it were true what was the point in being sold a receiver that has the capability to pass all signals via hdmi if you cannot acutally do it. In this matter the manufacturer has fallen short of expectations that is has placed on the consumer. In other words its kind of stupid to sell someone a product based on meeting the consumers expecations for something and then say "Oh by the way, that does not work very well." On the other hand if this recommendation was from Onkyo and not a THX standard, I guess then all I could do is chuckle in disapointment. |
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Silver Member Username: CclashhPost Number: 393 Registered: Jan-08 | This does not really matter to me as it does not fix my problem but I think that it is difficult to say what the correct answer is when considering whether the upconversion is merely analog to digital or if there should also be an increase in resolution. The documentation I have read is vague at best and that can really only lead to speculation on what is really happening. I am not saying that anyone is right or wrong but I think it's a stretch to draw any final conclusions without having more data available. I will say that I have checked some other forums and I do not appear to be the only one under the impression that there is also an increase in resolution. The below quote is from Onkyo's site for the receiver. I think that based on this we the only conclusion that can really be drawn is what exactly is meant by HDMI upconversion. It's obvious that its converting analog to digital but whether resolution comes into play is not adequately defined. To me it's hard to tell and the documentation does not really say definitively one way or the other where resolution is concerned. I do not think that it would be unreasonable to think that the use of the term HDMI could imply an increase in resolution, I mean we are talking about HDMI. I am not saying that resolution is effected I am merely trying to establish that it's at least possible. I have checked around and no one seems to be able to agree so I would not conclude that any answer is really correct or not! "HDMI and Component Video Upconversion for a Single Output to High-Resolution Displays The TX-SR705's HDMI inputs can receive pristine digital video from HDMI-enabled components, for a single-cable output to a display device with an HDMI or DVI connection. The TX-SR705 can also upconvert analog signals to HDMI so that all connected video sources can be outputted via one cable. And if your display doesn't have HDMI capability, you can use the HD-quality component video connections, which will also cover your S-Video and composite video sources. To support progressive scan, the TX-SR705 features a deinterlacing chip with Faroudja DCDi Edge (Directional Correlational Deinterlacing). This technology helps to effectively eliminate video artifacts from HDTV images." -Thanks! |
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Silver Member Username: CclashhPost Number: 394 Registered: Jan-08 | John, I thought it might also be worth noting that in your haste to disagree with me you failed to notice something in the very quote that you used. -see the bold text below. I do not really think that Jim was disagreeing with me. I think that he was trying to prompt a dialogue on what is actually happening. This issue has come up several times and it sure would be nice to get a definitive answer on it. My take is that the "upconversion" simply allows a composite, S-Video, and in some, not all (unfortunately), cases a component video signal to be transferred via HDMI. If that is the case then I would expect no real "improvement" to the picture quality but I certainly would not be happy about any degradation. |
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