|
New member Username: NoonanSingapore Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-09 | Hi all, I'd like to set up 10 speakers for my home theater, and I'm considering the two receivers: Onkyo TX-SR876 and Denon AVR3808CI. I've not owned Onkyo, and the reason for my planned purchase is to replace my existing Denon AVR2105, which has gone into "protect mode" (flashing red light behind the on button) for the 2nd and last time (not up for paying another $100 to have it repaired). The denon 2105 went into protect mode while having 8 speakers set up. I've been reading a little bit about Dynamic Power and the Onkyo has more of it compared to the Denon. However, will the Onkyo be overkill? I'm concerned about what I've read about the SR876 getting very hot, and most likely I'll be keeping the receiver in an enclosed cabinet. The Denon seems perfectly fine in terms of features, but once bitten twice shy. The 2105 had 120 watts of Dynamic Power (2 channel 8 ohms) and it "crashed" when only having 8 speakers. Now, I'd like to add a pair of infinity primus speakers to the mix for a total of 10 speakers. I'm tempted to be extra cautious by using a pre-out to connect my marantz integrated amplifier to whichever receiver I buy (denon or Onkyo) just to power the Primus speakers. However, if it's completely unnecessary do let me know. Thanks in advance. My speakers: Infinity CC2 (center) Infinity 2000.4 (front) Infinity RS-325 (surround pair 1) Atlantic Technology 154 SR (surround pair 2) Infinity Primus 360 Infinity Bu-2 powered subwoofer |
|
Silver Member Username: JrbayLivonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA Post Number: 597 Registered: Feb-08 | By 8 speakers on your current set up do you mean 7 "speakers" and a subwoofer? And by 10 speakers on this planned system do you mean 7 speakers a sub and 2 remote (Zone 2) speakers? |
|
New member Username: NoonanSingapore Post Number: 2 Registered: Jan-09 | Hi Jim, Yes, your assumption about my meaning regarding one of the speakers = subwoofer is correct. Regarding the use of "Zone 2" I am undecided. I do have a Niles speaker selector, which allows for 2 speakers to be connected to the Niles and then the Niles to be connected to the receiver, so I may not need to utilize the "zone 2" connections In any case, if I am forced to use Zone 2, I'm going to need Zone 2 in the same exact room as the other speakers (ie. i won't be listening to output in any other room in the house...no intention for multi-room). Jason |
|
Silver Member Username: JrbayLivonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA Post Number: 607 Registered: Feb-08 | Greetings Jason, So what would you like to accomplish with the additional speakers in the proposed new system. Regarding your old system, check all of the speaker wire because the A number 1 reason for protect mode is shorted speaker wire. Regarding the difference between Onkyo and Denon there are many yet not so many, if you are used to Denon that is probably the way to go, why go through a whole new learning curve? |
|
New member Username: NoonanSingapore Post Number: 3 Registered: Jan-09 | HI Jim, Well, similar to going from a 5 or 6 or 7 speaker set up I'm hoping to enhance the surround sound effect by having 10 speakers set up on the 7.1 channel receiver. I'll check on the speaker wire again, as I've heard the same suggestion made in the past regarding the source of the problem. Well, sure, the learning curve argument is one reason to stick to the Denon, but, then again, a counterargument can be made that something new is worth learning if it represents an improvement over the status quo and/or other options available (e.g. Onkyo). I'm open to either and loyal to neither (previous to Denon I had a Kenwood), and definitely willing to learn about an upgraded denon or an entirely new brand. Thanks again for your input. I hope they'll keep coming! Jason |
|
Silver Member Username: JrbayLivonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA Post Number: 609 Registered: Feb-08 | I applaud your enthusiasm regarding more being better but I would appreciate an honest answer when you find that there is no improvement over a 7.1 system by trying to go to a 9.1 system. If you really want to make some truly spectacular improvements add subwoofers!!!! |
|
New member Username: NoonanSingapore Post Number: 4 Registered: Jan-09 | So in your opinion there won't be an audible improvement by adding the additional 2 speakers? I'm thinking that an improvement can be established just by having 2 pairs of front speakers over 1 pair of front speakers. Theoretically, if one pair is placed at a slight angle but still in front and another pair is directly in front of the audience wouldn't that already be an enhancement (I'm not sure, but I'm guessing it might be akin to having 4 people talking at the same time, each saying the same thing, all in front of you but only 2 people directly in front? I'm trying to solicit for honest technical feedback, as to whether the setup would work with the aforementioned receivers. I'm not convinced my setup will work (hence my posting seeking input), so I'm hoping for some technical reasons why/why not one receiver is better than the other or why the set up would/would not work. Could you elaborate on your foregone conclusion regarding "no improvement over a 7.1 system....." Thanks for taking the time Jim! Jason |
|
Silver Member Username: JrbayLivonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA Post Number: 611 Registered: Feb-08 | This last post of yours clears up a little Jason. The left and right speakers are not as critical as the center channel and if you are careful to have the fronts equidistant to your seated position you may be able to pull this off, at least for one person in your theater. Using your analogy of the 4 people talking at the same time I assume that in one location it would sound fine but as you move around the room either closer or further away from the "speakers" you will get slightly different sounds. This happens enough already in a 7.1 system: http://customconnectionsonline.com/faq4.html I would never have thought to try more speakers thinking that the upgrade could more easily be done with better speakers but hey, that is the fun of innovation! |
|
Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 12169 Registered: Dec-03 | as noted, the problem that killed your Denons was driving the receivers at too low of a load (4 ohms which is a nominal impedance, and drops considerably lower than 4 ohms when approaching the Fs of the attached drivers.) Most home AV receivers are designed to handle an 8 ohm load. Now, the Onkyo is designed to drive 4 ohms, and has a setting for just this. I use a DS797 and NR906 both at 4 ohms myself, with KEF Reference 104/2 mains on the 797, and Martin Logan Odyssey ESL panels on the 906. My KEF Reference surrounds are also 4 ohm drivers. In regards to heat, the Onkyo does get warm, and keeps my room maybe a couple degrres warmer than the rest of the house in the winter after watching an hour or two of TV or a movie, but it's not that big of a deal. Anything using a large set of amplifiers, and the chipsets both the denon and onkyo use are going to run pretty warm. Class AB amps are only about 60% efficient, and the rest is all heat. That said, let me advise you, as others already have, that more isn't really better. Consider just using one set of speakers per channel or pair of channels on the receiver. I could go into the actual issues with running multiple speakers per channel and the phase issues and so forth that this causes, but suffice it to say, you'll really just get better sound by keeping it simple. If you aren't happy with the sound of one speaker per channel, consider better or different speakers as the path for improvement. The sound quality of the Onkyo is outstanding, so if you go with the 876 that won't be your weak link in the chain. That I can promise you. Note also that when set to 4 ohms, the onkyo limits power output to 55WPC, or so I'm told, so running the Onkyo with 4 ohm loads, many prefer to leave it set to 8 ohms for the increased power. |
|
New member Username: NoonanSingapore Post Number: 5 Registered: Jan-09 | Jim, thanks for the link. I've added it to my favorites for future reference. You've also got me thinking about a speaker upgrade (quality vs. quantity argument). I've had my eyes on B&Ws and Klipsch for a while now. May need to investigate in earnest. GlassWolf- Thanks for the technical explanation and the suggestion on the Onkyo. The warming factor regarding the chips used is indeed very helpful. Living in a tropical climate where the AC needs to be on year-round makes additional sources of heat a consideration. Thank you both for your insight! Jason |