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Bronze Member Username: SackohammersPost Number: 69 Registered: May-06 | Hello everyone, been a long time. I've been very happy with the HK AVR 635 and Ascend Acoustic speakers. You all provided a lot of help selecting those components a few years ago. Now I need to do HDMI switching. I've got a cable box, my HTPC, my Playstation 3. I've got a new Samsung 52" 650 series LCD. It does 120 mhz so I'm assuming I need HDMI 1.3. I'm just trying to set things up. Right now it looks like I've got to go audio on all those components to my AVR 635 and then I'm going to have to do video switching at the television (it does have 3 inputs). I want to explore my options with upgrading my Receiver to something that will do HDMI switching. Can you guys recommend a comparable HK receiver? They've changed the model numbers around. I think the AVR 635 does 75 watts per channel. The newer AVR 354 does 75 watts per channel but it seems to have a bunch of stuff I don't need. Plus the thing is $800. The AVR 347 seems to have the feature set I need, but it doesn't seem to have the same punch. Any thoughts? I'd gladly listen to advice. I sort of cringe at the thought that I need to pay $800 just to gain HDMI switching. |
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Silver Member Username: CclashhPost Number: 346 Registered: Jan-08 | I do recommend this receiver a lot but if you are lookng for a high quality receiver that will do the HDMI switching that you seek and you are concerned about the price an Onkyo TX-SR606 is a viable option. It has 4 -1.3a hdmi inputs and is very reasonably priced. It supports high def audio and has some other interesting features that I think are worth looking into. HDMI Upconversion is one of them. Although it may be argued that this feature does little to improve on picture it is still a nice feature in that it makes it possible for you to use only one output from the receiver to the TV. In other words anything you input to the receiver be it componenet, s-video, composite, or hdmi will be output to the tv from the hdmi out on the receiver. This is good because it simplifies the setup and makes it possible to put the TV on one input and leave it there never to be changed again. Its 7.1 but can be used as 5.1 just as effectively. It has Audyssey automatic calibration which will adjust all the critical settings using a microphone in just a few minutes. This feature gives you as close to a professional setup as you can get without actually hiring someone to adjust the settings for you. It has a nice apearance and in my opinion being an Onkyo is very reliable. This receiver goes for less than $400.00 and has been ahead of its technology since originally being manufactured. I personally own a TX-SR705 which is one model up from the one I recommend but that is not to say that I would not own a TX-SR606. I was mainly taken by the 705's THX certification. http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR606&class=Receiver&p=i |
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Silver Member Username: MccambleyBREEZY POINT, NY USA Post Number: 512 Registered: Jun-05 | The Onkyo TX-SR606 seems to be the hot ticket these days. |
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Bronze Member Username: SackohammersPost Number: 70 Registered: May-06 | Really? Onkyo? Any other suggestions out there I can look at? |
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Silver Member Username: CclashhPost Number: 350 Registered: Jan-08 | Well, What is it about the Onkyo that you do not like? Does it have the feature set you need? Do you consider them unreputable? I am sure other suggestions could be made but we would really need to know about what you are seeking that the Onkyo does not have or what you do not like about it in order to elaborate more on what is available? What exactly are you looking for? There is nothing inherently wrong with the Brand Onkyo. In fact I would consider thinking so a little silly. They are in fact quite good receivers. You would have a rather difficult time finding a receiver with a comparable feature set that the TX-SR606 has at the price it is available for. I would suggest you do a little more research before rejecting it just because its an Onkyo. |
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Bronze Member Username: SackohammersPost Number: 71 Registered: May-06 | I've owned Onkyo. My friend loves his. I really liked my HK, though. I like the sound and features (other than lack of HDMI). I would have to listen to this TX-SR606. I would have to do some reading as well. But what I was getting at, are there any other recommendations as well. If I'm going to entertain the idea of not getting an HK, then I would want to compare at least one or two with the Onkyo. I know my short message didn't reflect that at all, but that is what was going on in my mind. What if I decided to go with an HDMI switch? Where would it fit into the mix? Would it be much of a hassle? |
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Silver Member Username: CclashhPost Number: 352 Registered: Jan-08 | What is your budget? I would take a look at the Onkyo using the link I gave you then go to the HK site and compare. Its totally understandable that you have grown to trust HK because of your experience with them and I think that is what is really at issue here. Its a no-brainer just compare what HK has to TX-SR606. My suggestion was primarily based on the criteria you gave in your original post. You indicated that cost was an issue etc. My recommendation was based on that criteria and I still think considering what you said that your best bet is the Onkyo. My guess is that to get an HK with a comparable feature set that you will end paying a lot more and end up with pretty much the same receiver. No, an HDMI switch would not even come close to accomplishing what you are trying to do! OK Hammers, I looked at the HK that would be comparable and first of all it costs about twice as much and not as good as the onkyo. Its their high end and to me does not look as good as the Onkyo low end. see link http://www.harmankardon.com/product_detail.aspx?Region=USA&Country=US&Language=ENG&cat=REC&prod=AVR%20354&sType=C |
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Silver Member Username: MccambleyBREEZY POINT, NY USA Post Number: 518 Registered: Jun-05 | If you just want more receceivers to compare try Denon,Yamaha,Pioneer,and Integra (Onkyo step up brand). But you will need to spend over $1000 to get all the features of the Onkyo AVR606 |
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Bronze Member Username: SackohammersPost Number: 72 Registered: May-06 | Jeff, What, exactly, makes the HK 354 "not as good as the onkyo". One of the reasons I see the HK is more expensive than the Onkyo is because it includes some nicer things. For upscaling it has the Faroudja processor. I read reviews that the HDMI upscaling on this onkyo leaves a lot to be desired. For someone like me with a non-HDMI source like a playstation 2, that is an iportant consideration. The Onkyo doesn't let you freely reassign the connections and you cannot rename them. This HK also comes with an iPod dock - something I wish it didn't come with. Also, as most people know about HK, they're conservative with their wattage ratings, so the power output is comparable if not better. Other than price, what else makes the HK a worse receiver? The only thing I saw was that it has 3 instead of 4 HDMI inputs, but thats enough for my needs (Cable tuner, PS3, HTPC (acts as disk player and media source). What about Marantz? Can anyone recommend a comparable model in the Marantz line? I know they tend to sound warmer, and the reason I chose HK was because of its more honest or true sound... but I'd listen to Marantz again and compare.. if I knew which model to look for. EDIT: Looks like some yet unresolved issues with PCM on the HK and PS3. Some other receivers have this problem as well I guess. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1053202 |
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Bronze Member Username: SackohammersPost Number: 73 Registered: May-06 | I've done some more reading. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1060433 The summation of this thread is that the HK 354 has some bugs right now. The Sound Quality is there, but other issues (mostly related to timeout on PCM stream from PS3) make it problemmatic. They mention the Marantz 7002. That is completely out of my price range. I wonder what would be comparable. When I was originally shopping for my HK 635 - currently have - (SQ was a big factor), I found the Marantz to sound "warm". I know thats subjective, and can be different from model to model. |
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Silver Member Username: CclashhPost Number: 353 Registered: Jan-08 | Hammers, The Onkyo does and has everything that you said it doesn't. Maybe you are not looking closely enough. Quote: "For upscaling it has the Faroudja processor. I read reviews that the HDMI upscaling on this onkyo leaves a lot to be desired. For someone like me with a non-HDMI source like a playstation 2, that is an iportant consideration. The Onkyo doesn't let you freely reassign the connections and you cannot rename them." The Onkyo has the Faroudja processor. You can freely reassign the connections and rename them. It is rated at 90 watts per channel and is not just a peak rating. The Marantz is much more expensive with the same feature set as the Onkyo. The bottom line is that to get a receiver equal to the Onkyo TX-SR606 you are probably going to pay $1000.00 or more as opposed to the Onkyo at below $400.00. |
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Bronze Member Username: SackohammersPost Number: 74 Registered: May-06 | Here are some of the comments from reviews on this unit. These are comments taken from positive reviews where overall they rated it highly, but these were the drawbacks: A bigger disappointment was that the audio-video inputs are more limited than I had expected. If you have several older devices, you should know that only the HDMI, digital audio, and component inputs can be connected to different inputs. And they can't be renamed. So anyone using my system has to know that TV/GAME button shows the old TiVo box and that the laptop is connected as CD. And if I had one more device, I'd have been out of luck. You appear to be correct about being unable to rename the inputs. This is a slight disappointment for me. Only negatives is this baby runs hot ! They do run hot ! It does a decent job but i would say upscaling isn't the receivers strong point In spite of the almost endless settings in the menu, there's one thing that the Onkyo won't do that is a minor source of irritation for me: You can't relabel the inputs. Some people claim to have a "humming" issue with this unit connected to a PS3 but I haven't experienced any. The first problem with the receiver is that it runs very hot. Too hot to touch. The second problem with the receiver is the deal-breaker however. If you have a PS3, the receiver causes a terribly annoying buzzing at mid to high volumes. Basically any volume 25+ causes the buzz. The buzz is incredibly loud and comes out the speakers. From what I've read Onkyo apparently fixed this issue and came out with the Onkyo TX-SR606B. This is what I ordered from J&R, and assuming they sent me the 606B, the receiver still buzzes. I don't think the 1080i upscaling works very well. It goes on. The four main complaints are that there is often buzzing when doing LPCM through HDMI (PS3). It runs hot. You cannot relabel the ports. Some report poor analogue upscaling... despite the fact that you pointed out it has the same Faroudja processor as the HK. I don't know. I'm not sold on either the HK or the Onkyo. Seems like they both have some problems... hopefully firmware upgrade on either the PS3 or the AVRs can mitigate those problems in the future. I think for now, I'm just going to keep enjoying the great sound quality I'm getting out of the HK. I'm just going to have to do my video switching at the TV and my audio switching at the Receiver. Fortunately there have been no lip sync problems doing this. |
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Silver Member Username: CclashhPost Number: 354 Registered: Jan-08 | I have a comparable Onkyo and have had absolutely no problems with it. I have heard of people using PS 3's with it and have never heard of what your research is saying. I have not run into a feature thus far that it does not have that I cannot absolutely do without. In fact it has anything I could possibly want. I would say that you are splitting hairs just a little. I do not believe that any concern you listed is really going to be an issue at all. You are not going to find a receiver that there are not at least a few questionable reviews. You have to take this with a grain of salt. If you are getting the Onkyo from a source that you can return it to if it does not work out I would go ahead and get it hook it up and see how it works. If it does not meet your expectations then return it. Going to the trouble of setting it up I think is worth it considering it would save you $600.00 plus. What I think is happening here is that you were expecting to post here and have everyone say HK is the best and tell you which one to get. If you do not want to get another brand besides HK then you do not have to justify it -just don't do it.... |
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Bronze Member Username: SackohammersPost Number: 75 Registered: May-06 | First off... I've got to say I appreciate you sticking with me. I haven't said thanks yet and I should... so thanks. I've got to write off the HK for now. From what I've read, the problems are worse than the Onkyo. You're absolutely right, I'm splitting hairs. My problem is I've got a solution in place that provides audio that I really, really like. I've gotten used to the sound. My first instinct is to try to get as close to that as I can. Anything that introduces a malady that I don't currently have makes this a trade-off. The only real reason for replacement is to gain HDMI switching. But, if to gain HDMI switching I have to: worry about heat (in the same enclosure as my HTPC), be concerned about PS3 (BluRay playback and other video game issues), relabeling ports (a big thing for WAF... although dropping money on a Harmony remote would fix that), and possible upscaling on older sources. My significant other really likes Guitar Hero, Rockband and such for the PS2... which is an anomoly for people my age. You can only play those games I've got on the PS2... I want her to be able to get that PS2 going without any help from me, its one of the few gaming things she enjoys herself and we can enjoy together. If that becomes more difficult than it has been, then that becomes another trade-off factor. I'm having to consider trading off all these things to make video / audio switching a little easier. But, you're definitely right about one thing. I'd be silly not to try it. Thanks for slapping that on my forehead, I needed that. I need to find a local retailer and give it a home audition. I wouldn't buy a receiver without listening to it first, but if I can get it into the home, with all my gear, then I can more truely evaluate the tradeoffs. Can you recommend a retailer that has a liberal policy? I live in an area that has easy local access to Best Buy (Magnolia), Circuit City, Fry's, Costco, etc. |
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Silver Member Username: CclashhPost Number: 355 Registered: Jan-08 | Circuit City is 30 days and they carry Onkyo. BE SURE THAT THEY GIVE YOU THEIR ONLINE PRICE It will be a lot less than the in store price. They will give the circuit city online price in store. You are right about trying it in your home. That is a much better test than what it sounds like in the store. I think you are going to be suprised and I think you are going to really really like the Onkyo even more than you do the HK. Trust me you are getting a lot more than just HDMI switching. The receiver will support any new technologies that are currently out there or will be out there anytime in the near future. |