|
New member Username: FinndogPost Number: 1 Registered: May-08 | I've been using an Onkyo receiver which has been great. I recently bought a PS3 which acts as my DVD, gaming, music player. Here's what I'm wondering. When playing a movie/game I only have a surround sound selection for Direct, or Multichannel. When watching regular T.V. I can select from a variety of arrays. Do I everything hooked up right? Do I have everything hooked up the best way? Below I'll list components and how it's plugged. ONKYO 605 HDMI IN1, IN2, OUT (assigned) JVC DLP HDMI going to, OUT Comcast HD box going to, HDMI IN2 Sony PS3 going to, HDMI IN1 Also I noticed to use PS3 I have to select the game/tv input? Should or can I set up to select dvd input? Or would that not matter? Last thing this new PS3 system update I downloaded. Any gain for me? "Blu-ray Disc playback now supports DTS-HD Master Audio and DTS-HD High Resolution Audio output.* * The PS3 system does not support playback of DTS-ES and DTS 96/24 for DVD-Video or DTS-ES Matrix for Blu-ray Discs." Thanks to anyone who can help. |
|
Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 2263 Registered: Feb-04 | "When playing a movie/game I only have a surround sound selection for Direct, or Multichannel. When watching regular T.V. I can select from a variety of arrays. Brian, your Onkyo will not permit any selection of matrixed or simulated surround modes when the signal is coming into one of its HDMI inputs. You are able to select those surround DSP modes when watching TV because you are not using an HDMI input for that source. So your hookup looks good. "Also I noticed to use PS3 I have to select the game/tv input? Should or can I set up to select dvd input? Or would that not matter?" You can assign that HDMI IN1 input to be labelled anything you want. This label is up to you and it does not affect the performance of that input. "Last thing this new PS3 system update I downloaded. Any gain for me? 'Blu-ray Disc playback now supports DTS-HD Master Audio and DTS-HD High Resolution Audio output.* * The PS3 system does not support playback of DTS-ES and DTS 96/24 for DVD-Video or DTS-ES Matrix for Blu-ray Discs.' " I do not own a BD player yet, but as I understand it, many of the newer Blu-ray discs are showing up with DTS-HD HR and DTS-HD MA tracks on them. So yes, there is a potential benefit if you play one of those discs. These high resolution tracks (including the Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD codecs) must be decoded in the player and not the receiver. This is because the PS3 will not output these bitstreams intact on its HDMI output. Once decoded by the PS3, these signals come in via multichannel linear Pulse Code Modulation (aka PCM or LPCM) on the Onkyo's HDMI input. The receiver easily handles this signal and you will hear the benefit of the better audio on the disc. Again, you would not be able to select any matrixed or DSP surround modes, but then why would you? |
|
Silver Member Username: CclashhPost Number: 238 Registered: Jan-08 | John, I am sorry but as a Blu-ray and onkyo 705 owner I am having a difficult time finding any truth in what you have said... Brian, your Onkyo will not permit any selection of matrixed or simulated surround modes when the signal is coming into one of its HDMI inputs. You are able to select those surround DSP modes when watching TV because you are not using an HDMI input for that source. So your hookup looks good. That is just not true you can select any listening mode when input via HDMI. I do not own a BD player yet, but as I understand it, many of the newer Blu-ray discs are showing up with DTS-HD HR and DTS-HD MA tracks on them. So yes, there is a potential benefit if you play one of those discs. These high resolution tracks (including the Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD codecs) must be decoded in the player and not the receiver. This is because the PS3 will not output these bitstreams intact on its HDMI output. Once decoded by the PS3, these signals come in via multichannel linear Pulse Code Modulation (aka PCM or LPCM) on the Onkyo's HDMI input. The receiver easily handles this signal and you will hear the benefit of the better audio on the disc. Again, you would not be able to select any matrixed or DSP surround modes, but then why would you? This is partly true and depends on the Bu-ray player and how the blu-ray player is setup and whether you have a receiver with the capability of decoding high def sound formats. The 605 receiver is capable of receiving and decoding Dolby True HD and DTS HD. Not all Blu-ray players support Dolby True HD and DTS HD sound formats, some do and some don't. The PS3 does not at all but does support dolby digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1. With Blu-ray players that do support the high def sound formats there is one of two ways to do it. One being allowing the player to decode and the other to allow the receiver to decode. The benefit of using the player to decode is for those who do not own a reciever that will decode the format so it is delivered to the receiver already decoded. For those that do have a receiver that can decode the formats (including Brian's 605) the signal can be delivered to the receiver from the player to be decoded by the receiver and is definitely done via HDMI. |
|
Silver Member Username: CclashhPost Number: 239 Registered: Jan-08 | Brian, You should be getting Dolby 5.1 or DTS 5.1 and you should be able to select any listening modes. I do not own a PS3 but I did notice that the PS3 can be set to HDMI for sound and has a setting within the HDMI setup of either Automatic or manual. You will find these settings in the PS3 on screen menus for the sound setup. Make sure it is set to HDMI for sound and then try either automatic or manual for the HDMI setting and see what results you get and let me know how it goes. It definitely looks like this is a problem with the setup on the PS3 not the receiver. I have the same reciever and I tested my blu-ray on Game/TV and I did not have any problems changing the listening mode to any of the listening modes so that is not it. |
|
Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 2265 Registered: Feb-04 | "Brian, your Onkyo will not permit any selection of matrixed or simulated surround modes when the signal is coming into one of its HDMI inputs. You are able to select those surround DSP modes when watching TV because you are not using an HDMI input for that source. So your hookup looks good." Sorry Jeff, I wrote that in haste. What I should have stipulated is that Brian cannnot access any surround modes when the incoming PCM signal exceeds 96 kHz. As the chart on page 62 of the 605 owner's manual shows, the DSP surround modes are not available on PCM multichannel (32-192 kHz) sources. It is important to note here that the PS3 absolutely does support the high resolution codecs. Well up until recently, the PS3 didn't support DTS HR & MA, but the firmware update is now available for these codecs. Brian has updated his PS3 for them as his original post indicated. Yes Jeff, I know the 605 receiver is capable of receiving and decoding Dolby True HD and DTS HD. But the crucial point here is this: while the PS3 can internally decode all the hi-res codecs, it will not and can not bitstream these undecoded codecs out on its HDMI output. What it will do is decode these higher codecs internally, and then stream these signals via multichannel PCM via its HDMI output. After all, why should Brian settle for legacy DD and DTS 5.1 when he can hear lossless audio? |
|
Silver Member Username: CclashhPost Number: 240 Registered: Jan-08 | OK, now I'm wit ya, thanks for the explanation. Sony needs to update their online documentation. All of the documentation still indicates that the PS3 only supports Dolby and DTS 5.1 and does not support the high res sound formats. It isn't until you look at the details on the firmware update that it is indicated that DTS-HD is supported but it does not indicate that Dolby True HD is. Is Dolbly True-HD supported? I am assuming then that he would want to select Direct for listening mode then? If the disk only has Dolby or DTS 5.1 sound (and some do, not all have the high res. sound) shouldn't the receiver display indicate Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1 or is this also decoded by the PS3? |
|
New member Username: FinndogPost Number: 2 Registered: May-08 | Ok I understand reading what some have said above. I do see playing a BD movie that its running True HD audio, I see this by pressing Sony PS3's select button on controller. However this Direct/Multichannel deal kills me. The sound is great, but no selection of array? Multichannel is best all speakers working. Direct seems to be a Stereo 3 type mode, fronts and center. Anyways thanks for all the responses. I hate listening to my MP3's and only being able to select those two settings. I can't even select just a standard stereo mode. |
|
Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 2266 Registered: Feb-04 | "Is Dolby True-HD supported?" "If the disk only has Dolby or DTS 5.1 sound (and some do, not all have the high res. sound) shouldn't the receiver display indicate Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1 or is this also decoded by the PS3?" Yes, the PS3 supports TrueHD, along with Dolby Digital Plus. Once again, these codecs are decoded in the PS3 and output in multichannel PCM on its HDMI out. The PS3's hardware does not make bitstreaming possible for any codec on its HDMI output, and that includes regular DD and DTS 5.1. So any movie, regardless of format (SD or BD) or specific audio codec will cause the receiver to display "multi PCM" and not "Dolby TrueHD" or "Dolby Digital," etc. The PS3 will bitstream legacy DD and DTS on its optical output on SD and Blu-ray discs. I'm not sure whether the PS3 will bitstream on its optical while simultaneously yielding multichannel PCM on its HDMI, but I would be surprised if it didn't. Here is an interesting chart of audio support for the various BD players. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12871380#post12871380 Brian, the question I have is why do you want to muck up a high resolution format like Dolby TrueHD with some sort of fake surround mode? I understand your problem with other sources like MP3s. And according to the chart on page 62 in your Onkyo manual, you should be able to select a number of surround modes. I don't know why you can't. One thing I can say for sure is that if you play these sources via Sony's proprietary audio/video "Multi" out cable -- which supports analog stereo -- the receiver will permit selection of any DSP surround modes available. (I don't know if this cable comes with the PS3 or you have to buy it.) HDMI's promise of "one cable that does it all" is still not been realized in all situations. Not yet, anyway. Brian and Jeff, when I downloaded the manuals for the 605 and the 705, I was struck by the huge difference between the two, specifically regarding the Analog and PCM listening modes charts. Brian, if you download the TX-SR705 manual on Onkyo's site and compare the chart on page 67 of that manual with page 62 of yours, you'll see what I'm talking about. (Jeff, you would do the opposite, of course.) This is the kind of thing you pay extra money for a step-up model. It is also the kind of thing that doesn't show up in the comparison chart between the two. |
|
Silver Member Username: CclashhPost Number: 241 Registered: Jan-08 | John, do you think it would help if Brian made sure that his sound setup is on HDMI? The OSD on the PS3 has a setting in the sound setup that allows you to tell it what you are using for sound -HDMI, optical, etc. and the HDMI can be set to automatic or manual. Does this matter? |
|
Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 2268 Registered: Feb-04 | Jeff, I think the problem is in the receiver. Well, it's not a problem, it's just the way the 605 works. From what I read, the PS3's set-up menus are sometimes confusing and unintuitive, which is par for the course with Sony. So it's easy to suspect a set-up issue with the PS3. But look, Brian is hearing his MP3s in stereo OK -- he just can't apply any surround mode to them. And this is clearly a function of the receiver, not the player. I still say that Brian's best solution is to go analog for CDs and MP3s. He would then have access to all the DSP surround modes available on the receiver, just as he does when he's watching TV. |
|
New member Username: FinndogPost Number: 5 Registered: May-08 | All my settings in the PS3 unit are set to automatic. I've continued to just use what the receiver is giving me, (Mutichannel, and Direct) I can live with it and the sound is very clean. I guess I'm just learning that with HDMI your gonna limit yourself not being able to use DSP within receiver. Thanks again everyone thats tried to help. Just thought of a new question. Should I be connecting my HDMI from PS3 to TV then use a Optical to receiver? Would that improve anything? AAAhhhh reading this Sony PS3 manual is kicking my butt. page 9 says "A device compatible with Linear PCM 7.1 Ch. is required to output 7.1 audio from the HDMI OUT connector." ? |
|
Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 2269 Registered: Feb-04 | Brian, using optical only from the PS3 to the 605 would be a step backward. All you would hear would be plain old DD and DTS 5.1, along with PCM stereo. None of the higher resolution audio codecs are available on the optical output. "AAAhhhh reading this Sony PS3 manual is kicking my butt. page 9 says "A device compatible with Linear PCM 7.1 Ch. is required to output 7.1 audio from the HDMI OUT connector." ? Your Onkyo certainly qualifies, being an HDMI 1.3 receiver. Actually, many others qualify also, since all you need for multichannel LPCM is an HDMI 1.1 receiver. |
|
New member Username: DivotdudePost Number: 1 Registered: May-08 | Brian Hold down the enter button fof three seconds and HDMI auto apears push it again and PCM HDMI apears push it again DTS HDMI apears select PCM and you can use surround modes |