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New member Username: Piyushjain7Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-07 | I have placed an order for this combination: Def Tech. BP7006 - 1200$ - 6th Ave Electronics Pioneet Elite VSX80TXV - 650$ - 6th Ave Electronics I looked at these yesterday, the speakers were really good, atleast in the store. I checked out a few reviews also, and everybody praised about these speakers. The reason I am going with only two tower speakers is that I don't want to run wires along the room at this time. Is this pairing good? Is there any cheaper A/V Reciever that I can go with or may be pre-amp? I might expand my system in the future. But if a pre-amp will be less than half the price I might just buy that. Thanks |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 224 Registered: Oct-05 | I like both of your equipment choices. It is a good start for home theater and will allow you to add a center channel and subwoofer, as your audio enjoyment grows. A center channel will provide a better HT experience for everyone in the room and a subwoofer will provide the bottom end to make movies truly exciting. |
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New member Username: Piyushjain7Post Number: 2 Registered: Apr-07 | Thanks Wescott. I happend to find a BP7004 pair today for 825$ on ebay. They are used, but I still think its a bargain. |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 227 Registered: Oct-05 | Just make sure you give these bipolar speakers plenty of room. The further from the back wall and side walls, the better. |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 1527 Registered: Feb-04 | With one 10" long-throw woofer powered by 300 watts and two 10" passive rediators in each BP7004 tower, you may not find a separate subwoofer absolutely necessary. Depending on your room, that is. I believe all speakers sound better out from the wall, but none more than these bipolars. |
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New member Username: Piyushjain7Post Number: 3 Registered: Apr-07 | What would an optimum distance from the walls for these speakers? We have a rectangular room about 20x12 ft. The seating is on one side of the wall and TV is on the other side mounted on the wall (So the viewing distance is about 20 ft). I am hoping to place the speakers so that there is 3ft from each of the side walls, and about 2ft from the front wall. That will leave 6ft between the speakers. I also heard somebody mentioning that these speakers work very well if placed optimally. Is there a way to know what would be the best position e.g., what should I hear for if I move the speakers around to find the best location. John and Westcott..Thanks again! |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 228 Registered: Oct-05 | The optimal listening distance would be 14 or 15 feet and speaker placement would be 6 feet, but the latter is usually unrealistic so as far as you can is the best bet. What you will be listening\testing for is primarily the bass response. The closer to the corners or the rear wall, the more bass will be emphasized. If you buy a sound meter and a test sample DVD\CD, this will give you a great tool to make sure the bass is not overpowering the rest of the frequency range. Let's say you calibrate everything at 75dB. You will want all the test frequencies from 20Hz to 20,000Hz to be as close to the 75dB as possible. Going over 75 dB will allow you to EQ the humps in the frequency down, but raising them via EQ is not done. I am glad to see you have your room oriented in the proper direction and you have a rectangular room with dimensions conducive to good sound. Just don't sit too far back. Just as speakers placed close to the wall emphasize bass, so does sitting too close to a wall, in your case the rear wall. |
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New member Username: Piyushjain7Post Number: 4 Registered: Apr-07 | Thanks for that info Westcott. I have an idea of what you are saying, but did not get the complete picture. I searched for sound meters and I came across this post on ecoustics about HT calibration. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/products/articles/128211.html And this led me to the Avia Guide to Home Theater. Should I buy this guide to calibrate the speakers. I can see it can definitely help me in calibration of my TV. |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 231 Registered: Oct-05 | I have not used the Avia DVD. I used the Rives Audio CD for audio and the Digital Video Essentials DVD for video. I found the DVE did most of the audio, but I had to repeat frequencies with the DVD feature. It worked okay but the Rives CD worked much better for audio. Try the Avia and if it does not have all the test tones, you may have to buy the Rives CD. Both good investments and you will need to calibrate your video anyway. |
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New member Username: Piyushjain7Post Number: 5 Registered: Apr-07 | I will do that. One question. I am getting Denon AVR 484 (3 yrs old) used on ebay for about 200$. The same guy is selling it who had the speakers. These are the specifications: 110 Watt - 6 Ohm - at 1 kHz - THD 0.7% - 5 channel(s) ( surround ), 75 Watt - 8 Ohm - 20 - 20000 Hz - THD 0.08% - 5 channel(s) ( surround ) which seems to be good for these speakers. What is your suggestion considering the price difference between Denon and Pioneer Elite (649 $). |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 233 Registered: Oct-05 | This is a really tough call because I like both. The Denon does not seem to support component or hdmi video so that is a serious consideration if it is to be used for video switching. The new HD audio formats from Dolby Digital and DTS are coming out with support for HDMI 1.3 and that will be very important. If you can not wait, then either reciever is a good buy but I would probably suggest the less expensive Denon so you will not feel so bad when you have to upgrade for the new high definition audio formats. |
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New member Username: Piyushjain7Post Number: 6 Registered: Apr-07 | Ok. Bought the used Denon. They will not be here until the 1st of May though. I will post my experience with them later. Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 1528 Registered: Feb-04 | I have both the Avia and the DVE discs. I give the edge to DVE for video and Avia for audio even though it doesn't support DTS. I have found that DD settings are almost identical to the DTS calibration on the Avia based Sound and Vision setup disc. There is a mid to low bass frequency sweep on Avia that I think is particularly valuable in setting crossover and volume on sub-sat speaker systems. It is also good for setting the volume on towers with powered woofers. An SPL meter is of great value here. However, I do not think that one should follow the SPL meter's results blindly. Ultimately your ears have to be the judge. |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 234 Registered: Oct-05 | There is an interesting subsection of acoustics called psychoacoustics. It delves into why we like what we like acoustically. It has been demonstrated that we all get used to hearing what we hear on a regular basis and grow to like what we hear on this regular basis, whether or not it is acoustically correct. I had read about it but had not really given it much thought until about 10 years ago when my best friend and I visited a friend of his. He had a beautiful two channel system with some true, full range floorstanding speakers made from a gorgeous solid walnut. These were not veneers but solid wood enclosures. He was very proud of these speakers and had brought them back from Germany where he bought them while in the service. We both anticipated the listening session and brought our favovite CDs. My buddy went first and popped in a Pink Floyd album. The sound was totally dissapointing to both of us yet our host was just reveling in what he thought was an awesome sound. My buddy and I said nothing and listened to the entire album. After the dust settled, I asked him if I could see the drivers (15 inch bass drivers). He graciously pulled the speaker grills. My buddy and I both watched as pieces of the bass driver surround dropped on the floor. Further investigation showed large gaps in the surrounds and an obvious driver failure in both speakers. The point of this story is that even the most avid audiophile can get used to hearing sound, good or bad. Audio is much like a fine wine, an imported Belgian or Indian Pale Ale. Unless you have acquired a taste for how wine or beer should be made, one does not have a true reference point. If all you ever drank was lite beer, you may not like a Belgian Ale or a German lager at first. Audio is much the same. Proper sound may be an acquired taste and should be given a chance to be learned. The bass may not sound like you are used to and may sound flat or lacking punch. But it has more to do with what you are used to listening to than what it should really sound like. Now, after you have given it time to get used to, then I would suggest playing with the treble or bass, but I strongly suggest everyone give properly calibrated audio the chance to grow on you like a fine wine. It is an acquired taste that I am confident people will learn to appreciate, given time. |
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Bronze Member Username: HuronIf there`s no highs or... Post Number: 53 Registered: Mar-07 | and thats why I drink Grolsch beer, and listen to ever system I can |
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New member Username: Piyushjain7Post Number: 7 Registered: Apr-07 | Ok, I got the speakers and the reciever yesterday. Connected the speakers to the reciever left right outputs. I have kept the speakers about 3ft from the back wall, and about 2ft from the side walls, which leaves about 8ft between them. I turned on the TV and did recieve a great bass, but not really any subtleties in the sound. Called the Def Tech support, and the guy gave me these recommendations: 1. Atleast 8 inches from the walls 2. Rotate them turned inside. 3. Place them in an equilateral triangle i.e., the distance between the speakers should be equal to the distance between the speaker and the seating. 4. Use 14 gauge wire (mine is 8 gauge i think). I also did some setup on the reciever: 1. Put it to stereo mode 2. Front speakers to Large 3. Center and Surround to None. 4. Front speaker distance to 12ft. (I can't really have an equilateral triangle situation since my room is 12x20, the only thing to get that is to move the seating ahead away from the wall). I did rotate the speakers inside. The bass and sound did improve a lot by changing the reciever settings, but I notice as I go closer to the speakers, there is a better sound envelope at a certain point that I would like to be at the seating area. I tried to move the speakers, rotate them at different angles, but couldn't get that sound, the bass though is really really good. Would changing the wire help? Does anybody have any recommendations, anyone had setup these speakers or may be similar ones? |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 259 Registered: Oct-05 | Placing them closer to the wall will reinforce the bass, and a lot of people like that. You really need a test CD and SPL meter to see what the frequency response is at the seating position to get the best speaker placement. DT's are known for their bass so added reinforcement seems unneccsary, especially if you are looking for more mid range information (to much bass can overpower the midrange clarity). 12 feet back from the front wall would put you very close to the null (or center of the room). I suggest sitting two thirds back and keeping your speakers 3 feet from the front wall. Toe in can really help so try aiming them about 6 inches outside of each ear, respectively. I do not think cables are going to make a big difference unless they have bad interconnects or are extremely too small in diameter. Keep us posted and track down the Rives CD and Radio Shack spl meter. |
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New member Username: Piyushjain7Post Number: 8 Registered: Apr-07 | Thanks Westcott. Is this the Rives cd you mentioned: http://www.rivesaudio.com/software/softframes.html I found 2 SPL meters on Radioshack site, digital and analog. Digital is available, but analog is not. Here is the radioshack listing: http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=sound%20level%20meter&ori gkw=sound%20level%20meter&sr=1 Which one is better..To me digital will be easier to read. What do you suggest? |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 260 Registered: Oct-05 | Bingo on both counts. I use the digital meter for the same reason. |
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New member Username: Piyushjain7Post Number: 9 Registered: Apr-07 | Great! Ordered the Rives cd off their site... Will buy the SPL meter from the Radioshack store. Will post my findings later... |
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Bronze Member Username: Piyushjain7Post Number: 11 Registered: Apr-07 | Ok. I got the Rives CD and the SPL meter last week. Ran the test cd tracks 32 to 62 for 80db setting and plotted the graph. Noticed there were a couple of peaks. Moved the speakers a little bit closer to the side walls, and rerun the test. This time, the graph showed even more spikes. I tried this for over 2 hours but could not even come closer to the first setting I had when I started. Is this the correct way to find the optimum position? Please advice.. |
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Platinum Member Username: Project6Post Number: 14019 Registered: Dec-03 | Don't worry about what the graph is indicating, although it is a good reference and a great starting point...what do your ears tell you? |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 261 Registered: Oct-05 | Piyush, This is exactly how you are supposed to use the CD and SPL meter and how to properly place your speakers. I hope this exercise has helped you appreciate the effects of speaker placement. Your repositioning of the speakers closer to the side walls indicates how walls in a room negatively affect frequency response, and usually, the further away from the walls, the better. I think you are on the right track and understand the process. Without going through this process and hearing what the calibration equipment is telling you, one has no point of reference as to how a speaker system should sound. Very few go to the trouble to learn, much less appreciate the nuances of acoustic science. Great job and I commend you for your efforts!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: Piyushjain7Post Number: 12 Registered: Apr-07 | Well, I think I would have to listen to the speakers at that position for sometime before making any decision. The truth is I did not find any position that was better/worse sounding than any other. The only reason I went for the the calibration graph is that it will definitely provide a guide to better sound. I am going to post a few pics of the living room, and if somebody can figure out something. I am beginning to believe that its the room and not the position of the speakers, that is going to be improve the sound any further. |
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Bronze Member Username: Piyushjain7Post Number: 13 Registered: Apr-07 | Thanks, Westcott.. I think I will try another round of calibration this week, and post my results along with pictures of the room. May be you guys can figure out something by looking at the room setting that I have been missing so far. |