Small HT comparison polk/infinity/paradigm/??? Opinions please
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New member Username: Texas_wPost Number: 1 Registered: Feb-07 | First I want to say that this is one of the best forums out there on Home Theaters. There is a definite strength of knowledge in the membership! The problem: I have a small room (<1500 cu ft) for my home theater, and like everyone I'm looking for the holy grail - small and inconspicuous with good/great performance and less than $1000 for the speakers including SW. I have a Onkyo 604 (which was a video feature driven choice) and so I can go 7.1 wth my setup, but it's not a must have. We are probably 20% music, with the rest movies/HDTV. One of my biggest problems is space, so the fronts have to be pretty tiny, which of course really limits options. From looking around, I've come across three 5.1 speaker systems that will fit the bill, adding surrounds as necessary to get to 7.1: Polk RM10, with 10 or 12" sub Infinity TSS-750 Paradigm Cinema 70 or 90 There is a showroom where I can listen to the Paradigm, but not the other two. Any experiences out there with these speaker systems? Do you have other recommendations? thanks a ton |
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Platinum Member Username: Project6Post Number: 12999 Registered: Dec-03 | Have you listened to any of these units? They are all good speakers and the determination is usually made by your ears. |
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New member Username: Texas_wPost Number: 2 Registered: Feb-07 | I will be hearing the Paradigm today after work, but I haven't found a location yet that has either the infinity or the polk set up. |
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Gold Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 1180 Registered: Dec-03 | Lee: The problem you have is that your speaker choices are a poor match for your receiver. Now, since you already bought the Onkyo (for video reasons, I know), that part of your system is a given. But going out to audition speakers which will no doubt be driven by better electronics with a different sonic signature will make them sound much better than they will in your home. The Onkyo has a somewhat recessed sound, very laid back and a little relaxed in the upper midrange. Getting speakers like the Paradigms and the Infinitys which have the same sonic charecter will only exaggerate this maudlin midrange. You need something with a little more definition in that price range, IMO. Instead, I would recommend a couple of speaker systems that are higher quality as well as a better match for your receiver. Also, they are both very small and will fit into your room with no difficulty: 1. Epos ELS-3 speakers with the ELS-3 Center Channel. This is the speaker everyone on both sides of the Atlantic have been raving about. You know it has to be real good for a $330 pair of speakers gets onto Stereophile's Recommended Components list. Here are a couple of links: http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EPELS3 http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EPELS3C 2. NHT Absolute Zeros. Another legend of a speaker, and the new one is the best yet. Sold as a single, you can easily get five matching speakers here. Although I have a link describing them here, you can shop around and get a much better price. Expect to pay about $170 each as a street price, and you should be able to find them near you: http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NHTAZ 3. Now, both of these are great speaker systems and they both offer a good sub, but for a sub here, I highly recommend the Hsu Research STF-1. This sub has been praised by a number of audio publications, and no one can seem to understand how they can make such a good SW for so little money. Blows away most subs at three times the price. Still on sale (for a limited time) directly from the manufacturer for a mere $249: http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.html Good luck! |
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Silver Member Username: GavdawgPost Number: 319 Registered: Nov-06 | Hawk, all the Onkyo receivers I have heard were bright, and slightly thin, including the one I used to own. This is the first time I have seen this mentioned. My Paradigm dealer stocks (and demos) Onkyo, Integra, and Yamaha receivers with the speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 143 Registered: Oct-05 | Of the three speaker mfgs mentioned, I would pick the Infinity's. The are part of the Harman International group. Extensive engineering and double blind testing goes into their speakers and it shows. I would also suggest sticking to a 5.1 system with your limited budget, for now. Quality over quanity, as my father always says. |
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Silver Member Username: GavdawgPost Number: 323 Registered: Nov-06 | I have experience with Paradigm speakers, and they are my personal preference in that group. Telling the OP our own preference really doesn't help much. Wescott, most speaker manufacturers use the double blind method (paradigm included). |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 145 Registered: Oct-05 | Gavin, Paradigm does not have the research facilities used by Harman International and others. The National Research Council (NRC) is the home of ground-breaking psycho-acoustical research that has become the standard by which leading loudspeaker manufacturers measure sound reproduction. It was founded in Canada and its methods are now being adopted by Axiom and others. |
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Platinum Member Username: Project6Post Number: 13140 Registered: Dec-03 | Nice quote from the Axiom website However impressive Harman International and their credentials are, it is by no means a measure of how a person would perceive the speakers and how it would affect their listening preference. |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 146 Registered: Oct-05 | On the contrary! That is exactly what the NRC has tried to establish. What sounds good to people and to consistently replicate it in a speaker. |
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Platinum Member Username: Project6Post Number: 13142 Registered: Dec-03 | Does this mean then that all Harman International affiliated speakers, Energy, Axiom, Athena and those under the guidance of API sound the same? If they standardized what sounds good to people, would they then have final say in whatever sounds good? Paradigm, which is a highly regarded speaker should then not sound as good or better than JBL or Infinity? |
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Silver Member Username: GavdawgUpstate, New York Post Number: 345 Registered: Nov-06 | Many people think Bose has excellent credentials, and if you look at the website, they do. It is what the customer gets in the end. I admit I own some Bose products (computer speakers and headsets), but most of their products are horrible. |
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Gold Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 1219 Registered: Dec-03 | Sound reproduction is not a commodity, folks. What may sound fabulous to me may sound like garbage to you, and vice versa. That is why there are so many different products with widely different sonic charecteristics. The Paradigms and Mirage speaker lineups are both made by Canadien companies and both use to some extent the info generated by the NRC, but they sound nothing alike. There is NO perfect reproduction. The NRC information has been very useful, but it is not the final word on the matter. And just because a speaker maker may not use the NRC data does not mean they don't make a great product. |
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Platinum Member Username: Project6Post Number: 13151 Registered: Dec-03 | Exactly. |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 147 Registered: Oct-05 | Berny, I suggest you read the white papers. The study actually uses a scientific method to try to determine what sound people like then try to reproduce it on a consistent basis. Cost is the second factor. Better sound costs more money to reproduce and so, product lines improve the sound based on what the customer is willing to afford. So, this too will affect how a speaker sounds. But, from a scientific approach, the NRC does try to use this approach to produce a consistent sound that has proven to be appealing to listners. No, they will not sound the same but it is more directly related to cost and not the company philosophy. If they standardized what sounds good to people, would they then have final say in whatever sounds good? No, your purchasing dollars do that. Paradigm, which is a highly regarded speaker should then not sound as good or better than JBL or Infinity? There is no accounting for taste and that is why there is so many speaker mfgs. If you were to use Harman's double blind listening tests, then you would find that a greater percentage of people would prefer JBL and Infinity over Paradigm based on what Harman has tested for. You have to appreciate the scientific method. There is no way of making a consistently good sounding speaker if you do not know what people say sounds good. That is what Harman and their research is all about. People buy speakers for many reasons though and unfortunately, it may have nothing to do with the way they sound. They may buy a speaker for its size, its looks, its in wall capabilities, price, convenience, or because it was there. Hawk makes a perfectly good point but if you were to sit 100 people down in a double blind sound test, Harman has proven that the majority of that group would select a speaker using NRC research. Lastly, the original post was to select between the three speaker mfgs. and I told him which one I would select of the three and why. This was not to intimate that Harman will appeal to everyone. I will be the first to admit that their are few direct radiating speakers that I like and the ones that I do like are usually coincident designs like KEF's Q series. Sound is subjective but if you do not try to apply a scientific method to design, it remains subjective. But, if you can consistently build a speaker that the majority of listeners in a room like, then you have a better chance of appealing to your customers. |
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Silver Member Username: GavdawgUpstate, New York Post Number: 352 Registered: Nov-06 | JBL is known to be a "boom and sizzle" speaker in the lower end, bright treble and throbbing bass, but not really great in the midrange. A similarly priced Paradigm speaker is much smoother. Unfortunatly, people tend to prefer the "loudness contour" speakers ALA JBL. Now, the TiK series were nice speakers, and a shame that JBL discontinued them. But, everything priced from $1000 a pair down is less than impressive. Infinity is a better speaker, and has been from some time. Now by your theories, Infinity and JBL should sound alike, but they don't. |
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Silver Member Username: GavdawgUpstate, New York Post Number: 353 Registered: Nov-06 | Looking at your ave equipment list, I see you have Klipsch speakers. Of course you would prefer speakers (JBL) that have a slightly brighter high end. I have nothing against Klipsch reference speakers, they are light years better than a similarly priced JBL speaker IMHO |
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Silver Member Username: WestcottLeague City, Texas Post Number: 148 Registered: Oct-05 | My initial recommendation was based solely on the appreciation for the greater research and development of those mfgs using the resources of the NRC and nothing else. The only other comment I would add would be that you get what you pay for (and sometimes less). |
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Silver Member Username: GavdawgUpstate, New York Post Number: 362 Registered: Nov-06 | I agree with the "you get what you pay for" statement, but there are many excellent speakers that sell for a reasonable price that outperform more expensive models. |
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