I'm new to posting but I have been reading for a month or so. Your advice is greatly appreciated on a speaker demo list and perhaps comments on need for surrounds as part demo.
Building: 5.1 system Room: 15'x19'x8' medium size ~ 2300 cubic feet Pre/Pro/Amp/Sub: Outlaw 970/7125 HSU VTF-2 Budget: 2K for remaining for speakers
The forum, editorial reviews and all the great links really helped me narrow my selection on Pre/Pro/Amp & Sub -- thank you ! I have also selected a few speakers for DEMO
Question 1: How important is the center channel match for 5.1 music and theater? I have a pair of KEF Q30's (that seem nice to me) but figured I would need to sell due to non-center match. Advice -- ditch the Q's ? Any matches ?
Question 2: I understand damping factor and power requirements for driving speakers -- but what really caught me by surprise were discussions about the acoustical result of a given receiver / speaker combo - like there were combinations to be avoided (too sharp or edgy or too laid back). How's my list look? Recommendations? Any amplifiers to avoid during in store demo?
Question 3: How important are surrounds to in store DEMO. Two dealers I contacted were not very not interested in setting up 5.1 systems. Main and centers -- no problem.
You have done your homework, my friend. I am impressed not only with your research, but with your analysis, as well.
First off, I think the gear you have chosen (Outlaw and Hsu) are simply excellent buys. You will not be disappointed and they provide an excellent foundation for your system. Now, I do think a couple of the speaker packages you have identified are very good, but I would not include the Axioms. The Axiom 60s have a huge mid-bass bump that really messes with the sound. Kind of like the old Cerwin Vega speakers where they hook a listener with the heavy bass, but after a while, the sound simply wears you out.
Now, to your questions:
1. The center channel match is very important. A good 5.1 system requires the front three speakers to sound reasonably close to one another so that the soundfield image that is projected sounds unified and totally seamless. Now, that does not mean you can't use your Kef 30s and find a center channel that will work well with them. It will require a bit more work. I would strongly recommend that you locate a Kef dealer and look into a kef center channel, such as their iQ2c or the iQ6c models to see if they work. The key here is to trust your ears. If you have your new electronics set up with your Model 30s, forget about a sub and surround speakers, and try out a kef center channel speaker by listening first in a fixed position and then by moving around in the room. If you can't pinpoint where the center speaker is, then it probably is a good match for the 30s. Like most very good speaker makers, Kef maintains a certain sound charecter that will not change much over the years. However, you must also watch out for a new center speaker that has much greater resolution than your mains. This will show up when your mains sound a little smeared compared to the center channel--this means they are not a match and you would need to start over with new mains.
2. System matching is very important, IMO. My first stereo was a disaster because I bought my speakers and my receiver at two different dealers and each sounded great in the showrooms, but when I combined a bright sounding receiver with a bright sounding pair of speakers, the result was horrendous. I felt like the charecter in Edvard Munch's painting of "The Scream." What you have to realize is that many different parts of an amp and pre/amp can affect the overall sound, such as the power supply and most importantly, the output transistors chosen for that amp. Makers actually tailor the sound that they put out to achieve a certain result and different makers tailor their products differently. For example, if you were to compare a Pioneer Elite HT receiver, you would find that their engineers are trying to emulate the sound of a tube amplifier; consequently, the sound is very smooth and warm, almost woolly, and very laid back (like being in the 25th row at a concert hall). Conversely, for years Yamaha has made speakers that are very laid back sounding (actually, I would say they are downright dull sounding), so Yamaha engineers have built receivers that are very bright (an elevated frequency response in the upper midrange, between 2-4kHz) and forward sounding. Now, this helps balances out their brand speakers, but with another brand of speakers such as Klipsch or Focal (both bright sounding), a listener may well feel like The Scream, as well. So, the key is to get a balanced system so that the system is neither edgy (too bright) nor boring (too laid back).
The outlaws are wonderful equipment, and nothing I say here is a criticism--merely a recognition of their sonic charecter. The 7125 is powerful sounding and very detailed, but it is also pretty forward (First row in the concert hall)and just a bit dry. In other words, not a good choice with bright speakers. Going with warmer speakers, such as the Paradigms or PSBs, is the correct way to go. This is also why I think Kefs, NHTs, B+Ws, and Energy RC-series speakers would also be a good match. These four are not as warm and laid back as the Paradigms or PSBs, but they are nonetheless warm sounding and would match the Outlaw amp very well, IMO. Whether you prefer the Paradigm/PSB sound with your Outlaw, or the Kef/NHT/B+W/Energy type of sound will depend upon what you prefer. In other words, you have to find the right balance for your tastes. I can only point you in the right direction, but a final choice should be made by trusting your own ears, using your new Outlaw amp.
3. Surrounds are not important to an in-store demo. While they enhance the overall listening experience, they can also distract from the main information which comes from the fronts when you are trying to choose speakers. That is why dealers may not be willing to turn on some surround speakers. You have to get the fronts right, first. Surrounds only disseminate secondary information, so they do not even need to be voice-matched. If you don't find a center channel that works for your Kef 30s and you end up getting new mains, you might consider using your 30s as your surrounds, provided you have the room for them.
I really appreciate your feedback on coloration of amp/speaker combinations (very interesting). It was just luck on my part in selecting warmer sounding PSB and Paradigm to go with Outlaw gear - and now I have a few more candidates for demo too!
I'm speculating here but does the coloration have to do with the impedance mismatch between the amplifier and the speaker. It would be interesting to look at a plot of mismatch for different amplifiers to a given speaker - like Paradigm. Perhaps one could "see" the forwardness or warmth in the data? Of course a plot would take all the fun out of it and your ears will do a better job anyway !
I do have one more question for the forum (sorry for dragging on here). #4: What commercial, or common, in store amplifiers would you select for speaker demo knowing the home system is Outlaw. Sounds like I should avoid Pioneer Elite HT as this would be too warm and Yamaha as this would be too forward in comparison. What about DENON, NAD, ROTEL? These seem to be fairly common in HiFi stores.