TOO MANY OPTIONS HELP!! 5k budget need help-thanks
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New member Username: PeletonPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 | Hi all, first let me thank you all in advance for your time and help-Thanks! I am in the market for a new Home Theater and I am overwhelmed by the options. I am looking for help specifically from people who have had the opportunity to Listen to speaker packages and components, own specific packages, and or have specific knowledge of the what impressed them. Heres the deal, I have 10k total to spend-I have spent 5k on a JVC hdp70r1u - I need a receiver-speaker package-for the remaining 5K- I will wait for true 1080p hddvd so dvd not an issue My use ratio is 30% XBOX360--30% movies--20% TV--hd--and 10% MUSIC the room is 20x15x12tall I have a set of Energy c2 for front and energy center that have served me Well...I really enjoyed the energy speakers that i incedentaly paid cost for 10 years ago. Unfortunately, I havent been able to find listening rooms here in Houston which gives me pause, because its hard to purchase without seeing and hearing-- Im looking at a few speaker packages -dynaudio audience 72 and 122c -aperion 7.1 package-which is hard to pass -energy rc70 package in terms of receivers im looking at -integra dtr 6.6 -pioneer elite - Pioneer Elite VSX-74TXVi THX Select2 AV Receiver - based on the review from ultimateavmag- which I have found a useful site -and the onkyo sr803 for 1k i would prefer a 7.1 or 6.1 system, but whats really important to me is High quality sound- for example- the only speakers I have heard that I LOVE were the Vandersteens that were 7500 a pair- If you close your eyes and listen you can point to the speakers they were simply fantastic- blew away the more expensive speakers they had displayed- but simply out of my price range- I have read many threads here and I agree that its all in the eyes of the beholder-but for me theres nothing to hear or see, so its my faith in research that will cause me to pull the trigger- I truly appreciate all of your insight and advice- Thanks again Matthew |
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Platinum Member Username: Project6Post Number: 10149 Registered: Dec-03 | For speakers, I cannot make a comment on the Dynaudios, but I have heard many positive comments. The Aperions are a great value and so are the Energy's. Wonderful speakers! However, I have heard them compared against Ascend Audio and I believe the Ascends has the edge on detail and refinement. Your mileage may vary  Much like Aperion, they also have a 30 day trial policy. As far as receivers go, I would pass on the Onkyo. And narrow it down to the Integra and Pioneer. I would also highly recommend that you take a look at Outlaw Audio (this is what I use currently and have been very happy with it). Take a look at the Model 970 Pre-pro/7075 Pwr Amp combo for $1099 or the 990/7125 for $1898. http://www.outlawaudio.com/ That will leave you 3K to spend on speakers. My personal preference in speakers combined with the Outlaw Audio would be the Axiom Audio Epic 80 for about $2700: http://www.axiomaudio.com/hometheaters.html I have used this combination for a while and have since moved on to different speakers. But I still think they are the better value for the money. |
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New member Username: PeletonPost Number: 2 Registered: Aug-06 | -Berny- do you miss not having thx cert. and please tell me what you like about the outlaw--thanks for your help-- |
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Platinum Member Username: Project6Post Number: 10150 Registered: Dec-03 | Not at all. THX means nothing to me but a set of parameters that a receiver or piece of equipment has to meet. Most equipment that are well made can meet and exceed those parameters, they just did not pay for the licensing and the logo. It is a nice selling point and most people get really impressed with it. I like the Outlaw Audio because of its simplicity and power. Ample headroom for demanding music and home theater. The sound is fairly neutral and it really brings out the subtle nuances in the music that my wife and I listen to. Of course, the speakers have plenty to do with it as well. My wife likes the feel of the music (her words). The detail is outstanding. I also like their service, I haven't had to have the equipment serviced but they did give me a call when I ordered the equipment. Checking to find out how I liked the product and if I received it on time. After 30 days I received another phone call just checking if the receiver and power amps are up to my expectations. I also liked their upgrade policy...I don't know if they are still doing it, though. I haven't had any reason to upgrade. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 886 Registered: Dec-03 | Matthew: Given the size room you have, I am skeptical that the Aperion set will do a decent job, and certainly will not work particularly well with the Onkyo or Integra receivers. Something you must know is that most makers of receivers lie about their power ratings. The FTC requires them to rate receivers with 2 channels driven simultaneously (a rule drafted in something like 1970 when stereo was all we had) into an 8 ohm short. So Onkyo (Integra is an arm of Onkyo that claims its better because they "hand select" the parts, whatever that means--still the same crappy design, though) will test its receivers with two channels driven and they will test fine. But have the receiver drive five channels at once and they crap out. Two years ago, Sound & vision magazine tested the top of the line Onkyo TX-SR901, rated at 125 wpc. But when they drove 5 channels, the receiver clipped at 57 wpc! Drive 7 channels and it dropped to something like 54 or 52 wpc. And that only refers to the power supply problem--the output transistors used by Onkyos and Integras are really mediocre. So stay away from the mass market brands as they all suffer from these problems to a varying degree. Now, I would recommend the Outlaw receiver (the 1070) which is only 65 wpc, but since the Outlaw receiver has a powerful power supply, its 65 wpc channels will never fail and will likely give you an extra 5-10% more power than rated, so it is a worthy choice. My point here is that you cannot trust the power ratings (most Japanese sourced mass market receivers are rated at 100 wpc, but they can never get close to that). The brands worth considering without reservation, besides Outlaw, are the larger Marantz receivers, NAD, and Rotel. The Pioneer Elite is a good receiver, but it has a very "laid back" and somewhat dark sound. It sounds great with a bright sounding speaker, but if you get something more neutral sounding or even worse something also laid back sounding (Paradigm), it can sound totally lifeless. That is no fun, I can assure you. Still PE is a good brand, and so is Harman/Kardon, which has a very similar sound. They are well built using quality parts--I am only suggesting that they have been tuned to provide a sound that is a bit dark, so speaker matching can be a problem. So, these two are good choices only if you carefully pick your speakers to match them. Here, I recommend JMlabs Cobalts, Mirage, Klipsch, and Quad bookshelf speakers. Now, Berny has made a very good suggestion with the Outlaw separates. I certainly cannot justify spending upwards of $2000 on a receiver (unless you are going all the way to a McIntosh) when you can get quality separates for the same amount. Since separates have their own power supply, there is generally no questions about the sound getting strangled by a weak power supply. Also, since the amp has to stand on its own, marketing wise, they put in much better output transistors than most receivers, as well. In short, you do get better bang for your buck(s) above about $2K. Now, it is hard to point you in one direction at this point. You have said you really like your Energy C-2 speakers, so I have to ask why change them? If they work for you across the front, you are not under an obligation to change them--they are, after all, what you like. Your surrounds do not have to match. Now, I always believe the front three must be voice matched, but not the surrounds, which merely produce secondary information. You could get a pair or two of Aperion speakers for your surrounds and they will sound fine (with the right amp). I know some salemen will tell you that isn't right, but they are simply wrong. If they had to be voice matched, how could so many speaker manufacturers recommend dipole and bipole speakers for surrounds? I have built many a system for friends and usually we end up getting non-matching surrounds just so we can fir the surrounds into the space alloted--and every one has worked great, including my own system. Now, I will go out on a limb and suggest a system for you if you want to get something that will absolutely blow away anything you have ever heard--I can guarantee it. Given the fact that you are very open to mail ordering your gear and trying it at home, I would suggest that you get the following gear: 1. Outlaw 970 pre/pro with Outlaw 7125 amp. This combo will cost $1598 and you can try it at home for 30 days (www.outlawaudio.com); and 2. Magnepan MMG speakers. These are $550/pair (delivered) for the front mains and you will not find any better speaker pair for under a grand or more. They are available directly from Magnepan and they have a 60 day home trial. Here is the link: http://www.magnepan.com/_mmg.php Now, you are asking what is so special about these speakers. Well, they are planar speakers, so no speaker box (the single most significant source of distortion in speakers). That means they are a flat panel about 48" high and 15" wide (about 1.5" thick). This can be a problem for some people or installations due to their size (I had a pair and while my wife loved the sound, she hates seeing my audio equipment and wanted something smaller. She kept asking why not Bose--so I had to send mine back. I got my Dynaudios instead, but I still miss the Maggies). Another problem with Maggies is that they cannot be driven by most receivers because they are a 4 ohm load (instead of the more typical 8 ohm load). This is also true of the Dynaudios you are considering, so I knew right away none of the three receivers you were interested in would work with the Dyns. The Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer Elite receivers simply are not stable enough to drive a 4 ohm load over 5 channels or more. In fact, only NAD receivers are rated to deal with such a load. However, most quality separate amps such as the Outlaw, are very capable of handling that type of load, so it is not problem. A 4 ohm load is actually typical of high quality speakers which require high quality electronics to drive them. Now, enough reasons why you don't often see Maggies given their low price. Just get a pair and listen to the sound for yourself. There is no speaker that is cleaner sounding, faster (very important), and more realistic sounding than Maggies. When you play Maggies, you realize for the first time how good a sound system can be and how colored sounding box speakers are. If you like them, as I think you will, just keep them and order the center and surround speakers from Magnepan (another $600). If not, send them back (costs about $20 through UPS, as I recall). You really have nothing to lose, and I am certain if you give them 30 days to loosen up, you will swear they are the best speakers you have ever heard--because they will be. Oh, and before I forget, you'll need a sub. A 10" model will do in your size room. I generally recommend the Hsu Research STF-2 at about $400. Dr. Hsu is the leading subwoofer designer in the world and has marketed his products internet direct at www.hsureasearch.com or you can order a sub from Outlaw, which also sells subs excellent subs designed by Dr. Hsu. |
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Platinum Member Username: Project6Post Number: 10162 Registered: Dec-03 | I cannot put that in a better way...really, I can't...thanks Hawk |
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New member Username: PeletonPost Number: 3 Registered: Aug-06 | nice = i really appreciate your advice. as for the c-2's , they are going in the living room with the rest of my current gear. Im sold on the outlaw, ive heard great things about it and Im super interested in the Magnapans. Interesting story, those magnapans. I am a film director, I studied at NYU and received a graduate degree, currently Im teaching golf in my hometown of Houston because my wife wants to be near ailing family members. Heres why I mention my film background, I have always dreamed of recreating the theater experience-and its design. My vision was to change the entire process from production to display. I invisioned a theater in an egg like shape where the material of the egg was made of cloth where thousands of interconnected speakers where independantly wired and could fire independantly. The seating slightly raked and facing a slightly curved screen. The mass of speakers isnt to create a louder effect but a complete sound seperation experience that would be supported by a change in the way films are shot and audio recorded. My thought was lots of stock sounds and location sounds to be recorded through the use of laser mics, so this dream of changing the theater experience has been on my mind for years. The Magnapans are the realization of the potential for me to achieve my goal. I hope that makes sense. I will give the magnapans their shot in the media room. The outlaw seems like it can handle the load. So your suggestion is a good one and I will give it every consideration. Thanks again |
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New member Username: PeletonPost Number: 4 Registered: Aug-06 | My wife brought up a good question concerning the Maggies-- we have a 1 year old busy pants boy-how sturdy are the Maggies? how do you think they would handle being tipped or the like? thanks |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 891 Registered: Dec-03 | 1. They are not heavy, so even if they are tipped over (unlikely) they are very unlikely to hurt even a 1 year old. As I said before, there is no speaker box, which is where most of the weight is; and 2. Unlike most tower speakers, these are on two large feet, and they are tipped backwards toward the wall, so tipping them over is very hard. |
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New member Username: PeletonPost Number: 6 Registered: Aug-06 | hawk -- the room is 20x15x12tall--and yes im a cyclist--however my film company is name Shangrila Peleton-- its kinda play on words to symbolize ensemble, the french word for group of people working together towards a common goal, which is film-making-- also, I have an AV guy here in Houston that i was thinking of buying the dyn's(audience 72 and 122c and sub) anyway when I told him I was considering the Maggies, he laughed and asked if they were still in business. An expected response due to the fact that he doesnt carry them. However, he did knock off 500 the dyns-so that would make them really cheap. Do you like the Maggies as a total experience more than the dyns? |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 896 Registered: Dec-03 | matthew: That is a tough question, but, yes, the Maggies are to my ears that much better than anything else, but within the box speaker universe, Dyns are among the very best, IMO. I really enjoy my Dyns, but I do miss the Maggies. I can only give you the experiences I have had with guests. With the Dyns, the reaction is a very nice "Hey, that really sounds great." With the Maggies, more often all I got was "WOW!" with large eyes. However, the Dyns are among the nicest finished speakers I have ever had. Either way, you can't go wrong, but stick with the Outlaw seperates to power them. Good luck! |
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New member Username: PeletonPost Number: 9 Registered: Aug-06 | well folks, reality is catching up with me. I now have to choose between speakers I have never seen or heard because no displays in town...... I feel like Im getting married on a blind date, not to sound dramatic. heres the list-- Axiom Epic 80 Energy RC70 Aperion 7.1 and those nagging maggies--cheap and safe to get out of if i wanted to but reviews say cant handle volume without massive amp but great sound but at low levels Heres what I know----no matter what i read, I believe in ENERGY-ive had them for ten years loved every minute. That is the truth, and Im talking little old c2 bookshelfs. If you are reading this and your on the fence concerning energy and you havent heard them--I can tell you they are fantastic-but here I have to pay tax and there are sets that are risk free and cheaper for more speaker(5.1 - enegy---same price as 7.1-aperion) Im so conflicted |
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Platinum Member Username: Project6Post Number: 10353 Registered: Dec-03 | Aperion is not really on my list of preferred speakers. And if you liked Energy speakers, you still will |
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New member Username: PeletonPost Number: 10 Registered: Aug-06 | ok all, now the battle is between two receivers-amp outlaw 990-and 7125-amp and the Pioneer elite vsx84tsxi receiver heres the question--hdmi switching--pioneer does it outlaw currently doesnt and my new tv and direct tv hd dvr are all hdmi does the dvi to hdmi adapter work? the pioneer has farou processing and is reviewed well (check ultimateavmag) it also has FOUR hdmi inputs so only one cable to tv-- I can put the rack away from screen-- but from what Ive heard of the watered down watt of mass produced asian electronics I wonder if it can handle the load of a 7.1 package at 140 watts per channel so tough decision ahead of me |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 914 Registered: Dec-03 | Matthew: You seem more confused than when you first came on this board, and I am feeling a little responsible, so I will try to make a few salient points and leave it at that. 1. Buy what sounds good to your ears, not what someone recommends. It is your system and you have to live with it. 2. Do not assume that because and amp/receiver is recommended and another person recommends a particular speaker system, that the two will work well together. Fact is, everything has its own sonic signature and not everything works together well, sonically speaking. For example, the Pioneer Elite receivers have a very dark and recessive sound. Works great with Mirage, Klipsch or JMLabs speakers, all of which are very bright sounding, but paired with the Energy RC-70 speakers (which is a little bit reserved sounding), you might be disappointed. Conversely, Yamaha receivers for example tend to be very bright sounding. Works well generally with a more laid-back, recessive sounding speakers like Paradigms, but pair a Yamaha with JMLabs and you will discover thoughts of suicide to be a comfort. So you will need to audition the gear. I will close this point by simply saying no receiver (save a $4K McIntosh) is the equal of quality separates such as the Outlaws. 3. I made some recommendations because I was under the impression that you were looking to do something fast and you had a budget and a need. So, I suggested gear you could mail order and try at home--if it didn't work for you it could be returned with no questions asked. Subsequently, you revealed you had a dealer who was now offering you a nice discount on Dynaudio speakers. Now, I am surprised you have dropped the Dynaudios--is this because I said I liked the Maggies better? I hope not, because the Dyns are one of the very best speakers you can buy and should be on your short list. 4. But, you said you love the sound of Energy speakers. Well, hey, then that is the direction you should go for speakers IMO. You have experience with the brand, and you really like what you have had, so you should start there (everyone hears a little differently and if you love the sound of the Energys, it is a mistake to be looking elswhere). Now, you should try out the electronics to see if they work well with those speakers. What does your dealer offer, besides the PE? Other good brands of receivers include NAD, Marantz (only the bigger ones), Arcam and Rotel. 5. I would not consider the Aperions, unless you are convinced they are the only option that fits your budget. You will not hear much difference between a 5.1 system and a 7.1 system in that size room, and there is a serious trade-off in quality in going with the Aperions instead of the Energys. Aperion is a budget brand, and is simply not competitive, sound wise, with Energys, IMO. And, I think you would be very disapointed in the Axioms which are simply a cheap speaker system. They play loud and that is all I can say about them. 6. As for the HDMI to DVI connection, I have seen the cables available at my local Circuit City. However, I have no experience with them. I will tell you that HDMI to HDMI is not without problems. There are four different HDMI standards (HDMI, HDMI 1.1, 1.2 and Sony's new 1.3) and they don't always talk to each other. HDMI generally speaking, is nothing more than DVI with copy protection and audio added to the cable, so if you do this type of connection, it may require an additional pair of audio leads to get the stereo sound to your tv. Now, it is unlikely you would need to do this if you are using your HT receiver for the sound (such as DVD playback, where you are listening to the DD or dts multi-channel soundtrack anyways). What else are you connecting that would require the tv to provide stereo sound without the HT system? If there is nothing else, you don't need the extra audio leads and the DVI to HDMI should work pretty well. |
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Bronze Member Username: PeletonPost Number: 11 Registered: Aug-06 | Hawk your a nice guy, It makes me feel good that you were worried about me. So thanks. However, I have made my decision and I cant tell you how exited I am. Hawk your were so right, I mean nail head hitting and the like! excuse my language---OH S H I T!!!! these Magnepans!!!!!!!!!! They are SO SUPER HOT!!! I finally found a dealer that had a set to hear, and I fell in love. It took about two minutes of listening to three cds--classical guitar, female vocals, and rock, for me to realize that this is what I have been looking for. Energy WHO? ahh no I say loudly to this FORUM!!Maggies Maggies Maggies!!!!!! there should be a ratio of speaker happines and exclamation points--so far so good---so heres what I did to my banks account--- Arcam avr300 for 2k, I really want the avr350 for 500 more but not going to so I can get a sub---AND maggies fronts and center mg 1.6 -- Im going to order a HSU sub for 600-and Im going to get the maggies that are 550 at the website for the rears. OH MAN am I exited. My wife, who couldnt care less, now is exited too. Hawk YOU DA MAN! THANKS AGAIN Ill post back when I receive everything and its in the room. so with a 10k budget I decided after careful consideration to purchase the following JVC HDP70r1u $4900-officetronics.com Arcam AVR300 $2000-audio concepts--local store(HOUSTON) Magnepan 1.6 $2650+tax center, and $550 website special hsu sub $600 That, my friends is a $10000 home theater to be proud of Thanks again to all that helped me get through this---- |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 918 Registered: Dec-03 | I am ordering my plane ticket to Houston now! You have just built one of my dream systems and I am sooooooo jealous! Arcam is superb electronics and as I have said before, nothing sounds so good as Maggies. Can't beat that Hsu sub, either. Congrats, my friend! |
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Bronze Member Username: PeletonPost Number: 12 Registered: Aug-06 | You have an open invitation! i think I made the right choices... it feels really good to have the shopping part over, now on to the waiting, and then ENJOYING! |
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Bronze Member Username: PeletonPost Number: 14 Registered: Aug-06 | Oh, by the way, I just spoke with HSU and they said there is a new sub on its way. It will be for rooms that are large, and or complicated in terms of shape and acoustics. It will be here in late September for 799. I think its going to support the maggies quite well. So now Im just waiting, and it really sucks. But, looking forward to something great is better than not looking forward to anything at all. |
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Bronze Member Username: PeletonPost Number: 15 Registered: Aug-06 | Hello all, sorry that it has been so long for me to post my findings, but it has been a long six weeks. First of all it took forever to get the tv---so i finally went somewhere else to get it. I now finally have it. These Maggies oh man these maggies. They took forever too-but it was the vendors fault--they sucked it up. The arcam receiver and the maggie front and center are all in the room and heres what I have to say about that----- 1--Oh sh$*!!!! these Magnapans are fantastic---better than expected and better in my house than in the store-which for me is hard to imagine. But TRUE! heres why---very clear very very clear and fast--I love this center channel with a passion they look hot and sound hot and are priced hot and easy to setup--HOWEVER--they must for sure have a subwoofer which I havent gotten yet--I put my old energy 8in sub to hear it and it was a world of difference--i put the sub back downstairs with the living room package and I looking for a sub under 500 bucks. Also what they say about the break-in on the maggies is all true--it takes at least a week of nonstop 75% loud play-when you get them out of the box they sound good, but thats whats so cool--they get better--much better. And one day youll go into the room and the rich fast clear boom will be there and oh shi$ it feels good. The arcam is nice but requires lots of work to get it set, especially in terms of the remote. Which is nice. It has to power to run the maggies on its own. Good stuff Now heres the real confusing aspect of my package--the tv I purchased a Jvc 70 in hdp70r1u--its the pro version of the consumer 70 in-- Heres what I found--the set is large but small--meaning large screen size small unit. DO NOT GET THE STAND THAT COMES WITH IT!!! IT SUCKS AS&!! it gives about 3 inches to the front of the tv if you have carpet so your tv points down and the picture will look like crap--SO get a sturdy stand!! its well worth it--when i figured that out I felt much better about my purchase, I fixed it by putting the arcam manual under the tv to prop it up--night and day really! night and day....also this tv is so exacting with its picture and vast light output that it can periodically be too much for the jacked up signal of direct tv's feed. So you might find some video noise but its not so bad, at first it is bad, then two things happen--1 you get used to it-and you get further from the set and --2 it warms up too. it gets better also the screen material sucks, but again you get used to it. The bottom line on this tv is this---monday night football is so crispy and perfect that its almost nausiating. Yea that good--but any 480p or less image sucks--oh yea you have to have it calibrated which costs about 500--but it is So worth it- picture 50% better--and again i mean best picture out there with calibration---!!!!!!!!! and i looked at all large screens---the calibrator actually has the same tv as me and He loves it and raves raves about it--so its a good set but you have to have at least 11 feet of viewing space or picture is a bit grainy and noisy I should recieve the rear maggies and a sub soon and then We are having a film festival--we call it a movie casserole!! Ill post pictures when the furniture is in and the drapes are up, still lots to do but the choices have been made and so far Im very happy! Matthew |
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New member Username: StimuliThe misty climes of th... Post Number: 2 Registered: Oct-06 | Congrats on what sounds like a wicked system. Also, congrats on getting 'real' speakers instead of typical HT crap. Those maggies will pay for them selves many times over over the years, particularly with music. I was going to recommend my dream setup: XR45/XR57 amplifier with Ohm Microwalsh Tall speakers, which would have come in well under your budget and sounded phenomenal as well. Really though you can't go wrong with Maggies and ARCAM. |
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Bronze Member Username: PeletonPost Number: 16 Registered: Aug-06 | Thanks Rupert-- I am very happy with the maggies-arcam--- I finally was able to find my music collection today. I just moved and boxes are still all over the house, but the computers and music-dvd collection were of course the last to be found. I have a new respect for this set-up having listened to music I have grown up with. Unbelievable! I am having some issues with the tv. Now again dont let this dissuade anyone from purchasing this model, however I am findind that it is too exacting of a picture. By that I mean the picture is so big and accurate that it shows ALL video noise and junk. I added a line conditioner and suprisingly enough it worked quite well making it worth the money. I will have service done to correct the rest that I cant do. I also was looking for a sub and waiting for the magnepan rears, well now its complete. I finally was able to watch a movie after all of the waiting and installing. My wife and I held out on the pleasure of the first movie until we could find the right furniture, so shopping again we went and what did we find, but a perfect home theater seating four seater black leather on a huge discount of 1000- from 2450- it had scratches on the inside where the seats meet, and I haggled the guy down. My wife was impressed, I told her the more you frown and grimace during negotiations the better, she laughed, I saved a grand... So finally everything was delivered on sunday right in time for nfl sunday ticket in hd. We got them set and finally relaxed and enjoyed the day. --then came the nighttime-- and the baby was asleep -- and it was finally time.... Now Showing at Our theater-- V for Vendatta -- we hadnt seen it so we were really exited---- after officially pissing my wife off by fooling with the tv-dvd-receiver-speaker-sub- settings for about thirty minutes to get it right, I finally pressed play rife with exitement and BAM -- 1- Picture quality -- Fantastic 2- Sound quality -- Clearer than I ever knew was even possible 3- Picture size -- 70 inches is perfect if your 12-20 feet away and we are 17 feet away 4- AHH THEATER SEATING 5- in a totally dark room so that you cant even see the speakers this system rivals ANY movie theater in the world-- 6!!! it was all worth it!! all the waiting stressing and PAYING was worth it, when I play Madden on the xbox 360 and when I watch a film Ive never seen before and it ends up being good, and when I hear AVE MARIA performed by Maria Callas its worth it. Im a lucky guy Matthew |
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