Please help! Want decent home theater, not sure what to buy.
|
New member Username: Rich1957Post Number: 1 Registered: May-06 | I am trying to set up my home theater surround sound system. I have no clue what to buy. At first I was going to just go with Bose, but from what I have been reading, they are more hype than quality (although I will say I like their noice canceling headsets). Anyway, my local store is recommending the following... ERA Design 4 front and rear speakers (total of 4); ERA design 4LCR center; Energy S 10.3 subwoofer; and a Denon 2807 receiver. Total cost of around $3000. I don't know if this is good or not. Does anyone have any suggestions. I have read that the Paradigm speakers work well with Denon, but I don't know which speakers, or what I should expect to spend. I have been quoted $600 a pair for the ERA speakers and $500 for the center speaker. Is that reasonable or overpriced? I obviously am clueless as to what to buy or what sounds good. The room I just built for this system is about 500 square feet and I am mostly interested in watching movies (not listening to music) on the system. Maybe Berny can help me. I see a lot of posts from him and he seems to know his stuff. Maybe someone else can help me. I NEED HELP!! I have spent months building this room and I need a system before I can finish it off. I am looking to try to stay in the $2000 - $3000 range if possible. THANKS FOR ANY HELP YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO OFFER. Rich |
|
Bronze Member Username: Em69OttawaCanada Post Number: 86 Registered: Mar-05 | I have a Denon Amp and DVD player and I bought a Paradigm system: Cinema 110 L/R Cinema 110 C Cinema 70 Surrounds PDR 10 Subwoofer I have all the speakers wall mounted for a clean look. I am very happy with them. |
|
Bronze Member Username: Noya83Portland, Oregon USA Post Number: 14 Registered: May-06 | Hey Rich, Are you stuck with that Denon? That room is pretty large...have you thought about seperates (pre-amp or receiver with pre-outs and a 5.1 channel power amp) for some real power? That sub is garbage. Look at http://www.svsound.com/index.cfm They easily make the best subs for the money, which is why they're internet only...low/no overhead. As for speakers...have you thought about some used paradigms or B&W's? Check out http://audiogon.com/ for used high-end, high quality gear. -Michael |
|
New member Username: Rich1957Post Number: 5 Registered: May-06 | Michael, Thanks for the suggestions. I am not stuck with the Denon as I have not bought anything yet. I am trying to decide what is the best items to buy. This is difficult as I don't know anything about sound systems. I want a decent system that will sound nice in that size room. Thanks again, I was beginning to think that noone was going to respond. What do you think of the ERA speakers? They sounded nice in the store, but then again, I don't know much about these things. Rich |
|
Bronze Member Username: Noya83Portland, Oregon USA Post Number: 15 Registered: May-06 | Rich, I haven't heard too much about the ERA speakers. I did a quick google search and couldn't find any technical info...just prices. They are just monitors/bookshelfs, right? Not in-wall or anything. A few questions that will make a difference: Are you willing to shop online? Are you willing to buy pre-owned components? Did you pre-wire the room? Are you going for 5.1 or 7.1, or 5.1 and maybe upgrading to 7.1 or 7.2 down the road? Also, tell me about your room (shape, width, length, ceiling height, open wall or single door opening, carpet or hardwood, cubic feet, etc?) -Michael |
|
Bronze Member Username: Noya83Portland, Oregon USA Post Number: 17 Registered: May-06 | Rich, I did a little more googling and found review on them. The review says they're audiophile quality, but 4" woofers at that price point? Quite small. The review also mentions to really make them sing you need a power amp due to the low sensitivity (82.5 dB). If your compulsive about a physically small speaker, you'd probably be hard pressed to find better. Personally, I don't think I would purchase them at that price point. I would prefer floorstanding for my mains, or at the least, a larger bookshelf with at least 6.5" mid-bass drivers. Similar priced systems are: -Paradigm Studio 20's (front left/right) -Paradigm Studio CC-570 (center) -Paradigm Studio 20's (surrounds left/right) http://www.paradigm.com/Website/SiteReferenceProduct/RModels/StudioSeries/Studio Specs.html http://www.hometheaterbythesea.com/Paradigm-C1114.aspx http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1154044400 -Onix Rocket RS250 MKII (front L/R) -Onix Rocket RSC200 (center) -Onix Rocket RS250 MKII (surround L/R) http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=speakers&product=2.1 http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=speakers&product=6.1 There are plenty of other brands to look at. But I would definetly recommend an SVS subwoofer. http://www.svsound.com/index.cfm And I would plan on buying a multi-channel power amp sooner, rather than later. Something along the lines of: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1154028088 http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1153753977 Or something like this to power the front soundstage (L/center/R): http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1152924048 And let your receiver power the surrounds. Here is a brand new Boston Acoustic amp on clearance at onecall.com http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=26578&FEID=191&PMNID=416&ASaP=1&sr ccode=cii_14110944&cpncode=07-8893400-2 You have to realize only the newest $1000+ receivers pump out close to 100 watts per channel RMS. And most people would agree power amps clearly sound better than most receivers power supplies. And with the size of your room, you'll defineately want to have your speakers RMS power near the top of what they're rated at. I would personally buy: -Speaker System -Subwoofer -Lower priced receiver (with pre-outs for a power amp when you decide to add one). Also look for a receiver with some sort of auto set-up feature where you place a microphone at your seating position and it adjusts and EQ's your speaker levels and settings. Yamaha, Pioneer, Harman Kardon, and Denon all off them on certain models. If you don't plan on adding a power amp spend more on your receiver. |
|
Bronze Member Username: Noya83Portland, Oregon USA Post Number: 18 Registered: May-06 | Here is a user review of the Boston Acoustic amp from another site: Initial thoughts on the A7200: wow, nice. The biggest advantage of this amp (or any well designed external amp for that matter) is the fullness in sound when listening to multi-channel audio. The Onkyo 702 was pretty good with 2-ch, but switching to multi-channel left the sound thin. With the A7200, multi-channel sounds as full as 2-ch. So that is a plus. With the A7200, I can watch movies at 10 under reference... this is 5 dB more that I am used to. Very loud. Sound is clean, no strain by the amp... even when those peaks hit. I have a large room (2D layout in my gallery). But I am going to return the amp... just kidding. It's a keeper!! And I'll go bast to 15 under reference. To echo Doug917's comments, the A7200 is dead silent. Side thought: If I went with a different amp, say an Outlaw 7500/7125, I might be just as happy with the results. But if I could get comparable results (assuming the A7200 is at lease as good as either of the Outlaws), and spend $725 vs $1500/$1000, then that makes the A7200 all that much better. My Setup: Mains (6 Ohm)@ 12', 88 dB/1W/1M Center (4 Ohm) @ 12', 91 dB/1W/1M Side (6 Ohm) @ 9', 89 dB/1W/1M Powered Sub For any one speaker to hit 10 under reference (95 dB peak): Main needs 18.5W Center needs 9.1W Side needs 11W So I am clearly not operating this amp near its limit... but if it performs to spec, even with all channels driven if/when a peak hit every speaker simultaneously, I can drive my speakers to 2 under reference. Not that I would, but I could. Don't know if the speakers can handle it. |
|
Bronze Member Username: Noya83Portland, Oregon USA Post Number: 19 Registered: May-06 | Here are a couple of pics of the Boston amp reviewers theater/game room. Notice his room is 35'x17'= 595 sq ft, similar in size to yours.   |
|
New member Username: Rich1957Post Number: 6 Registered: May-06 | Michael, WOW, that is a lot of Info. Thank You!!! I have not yet wired the room. I put up the walls first and am waiting to pick out a sound system before I wire the ceiling and put it up. I am not at home right now, but the room is probably a little over 20' wide and maybe a little over 22' long. The walls and ceiling will all be sheet rock. I have not yet decided on what to put on the floor. The room has four doors. Three that are solid wood and can be closed and one opening without a door. My plan is to put seating about half way back in the room, and video games behind the seating on the back wall. I was hoping to mount the speakers on the ceiling to keep them out of the way. I don't mind shopping online, but I am unsure about used equipment. Thank you VERY MUCH for all your help. Rich |
|
New member Username: WilliemanPR USA Post Number: 10 Registered: Jun-06 | . |
|
New member Username: Rich1957Post Number: 7 Registered: May-06 | Willie, Your post came through blank. Rich |
|
Bronze Member Username: Noya83Portland, Oregon USA Post Number: 20 Registered: May-06 | Rich, I was looking at the Boston amp again. Did you notice it has Dual Toroidal supplies? And look at the weight of the unit! I know you shouldn't go by weight, but at it's retail price of $2,000 and 80lbs...man I wish it was Christmas right now so I would have a good excuse to buy it. |
|
New member Username: Rich1957Post Number: 8 Registered: May-06 | Michael, I looked at the Boston amp. Looks nice, real nice. I have to admit, however, that I had to look up what "Dual Toroidal" supplies are. I am definately no expert on this sort of thing. I may be able to build nice rooms, but I have no clue how to make them sound good (which electronics). Do you think I will need an amp for that size room? I intend to watch movies with this, not play music (although most movies have music). Even though it is not Christmas, perhaps you should treat yourself to one of these amps. I mean, heck they are on sale for $750. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention on my previous post. I was planning on making this a 5.1 system. I don't think I need 7. Earlier you said you didn't like the Energy subwoofer was "garbage". What makes a good subwoofer? What sound I be looking for? Is there a number or term that I should be looking for? Once again, I am a real amature at this. When trying to decide on speakers I saw some that said things like 55mhz. What should I be looking for in these? I know I seem to have an endless supply of questions, but I only want to do this right the first time. You have been a tremendous help already. Thanks, Rich |
|
Bronze Member Username: Noya83Portland, Oregon USA Post Number: 25 Registered: May-06 | Rich, I would definitely recommend a power amp and a lower priced receiver to use as a pre-amp. The sound quality will be much more full/rich, it won't sound hollow or tinny. I mean, take a look at the Paradigm Studio 20's, they'll handle 150 watts. An entry level priced power amp will deliver close to that. The Denon 2807 "probably" delivers along the lines of 70 watts RMS. (By the way, RMS means continuous power, where the Denon and most other receivers ratings are one channel (speaker) driven ratings). Just looking on paper a sub $800 receiver will feed the speakers 45-50% of the power they can handle, while a power amp will feed them more along the line of 80-85%. They'll get better extension on the highs and lows. There will be less chance of damage to the speaker. Not enough power while watching an intense scene of an action movie with the volume up can cause damage to the speaker (not that the Denon would unless you were really cranking up the volume going for reference levels). More power is always better. I mean, don't you want to hear the quality of the speakers you're paying for? Does your local store have a listening/auditioning room? Ask to hear a multi-channel (DVD or DVD-Audio) demo with a receiver (Denon 2807, perhaps?) vs. a power amp that has 120+wpc rms. Even if your going 5.1, all power amps will redistribute the power through your 5 channels (unless it is of monoblock design, where each channel has its own supply). Let me rephrase the "garbage" statement. It's just not the best for your money, especially for home theater use. A good subwoofer will have a long-throw (Xmax) driver(s) (woofers) and a high RMS amp. The lower the frequency response the better (as long as it has a smooth- FLAT frequency graph). A good woofer will play flat down to 20Hz, while a great one will play flat into the teens. Weight is also good in a subwoofer as it usually mean better/more internal bracing, thicker baffels (the wall the driver is mounted to), and a heavier magnet (motor) on the back of the driver). You also want a ported woofer for home theater use. Quick comparo: Size RMS weight price Energy 10.3 10" 200 watts 34 lbs $500 SVS PB-10 long throw 10" 300 watts 60 lbs $429 The Energy is kind of like your basic assembly line made car, while the SVS is more like a Porsche or Ferrari, but at a bargain price because they sell directly from the factory. 55mhz? lol. Speakers and subwoofers have a frequency response. Humans can supposedly hear 20Hz to 20kHz (20,000Hz). The perfect theater speaker would play flat from say, 10Hz to 20kHz (think of having 7 of them!). But with subwoofers we can feel less than 20Hz (like if your standing next to a Kenworth diesel or your at an air show). You generally want a subwoofer to play as low as possible up to around 60-80Hz (most woofer play up to 100Hz), as that's what you usually set your receiver/pre-amps crossover to. Meaning any sound lower than 60-80Hz gets sent to your subwoofer, and anything above gets sent to your speakers. Your welcome, Michael |
Main Forums
Today's Posts- Home Audio Forum
- Home Video Forum
- Home Theater Forum
- Car Audio Forum
- Accessories Forum
- All Forum Topics