I'm having a major dialogue issue with movies. I have to turn the volume up way too high to hear the voices on dvds. When set at a decent enough level to be able to hear the dialogue, say -18 db, when the action kicks in the cops come over to tell me to turn it down.. Right now, i have configured the settings of my receiver to +12 db on the center, which is the highest setting, and -6 db on the FR FL and the 4 surrounds are -6db in my 7.1 system in which i had to completely turn off my sub. It is rediculous. i have tilted my center, moved stuff around etc... This is my system.. Denon 3805 receiver Denon 2910 DVD B&W 605s2 fronts (2) B&W LCR6s2 center B&W DS6 surrounds (2) B&W 601s2 surrounds (2) B&W AWS 675 sub (1) IT is all timbre matched! Yet, to adequately hear dialogue i have to set the center to +12db and everthing else to -6db like i said... i don't even use my sub anymore. Sometimes, i will use my television speakers just to hear wtf it is they are saying. maybe am overexaggerating, but main thing is, what is my prob? Do i need more amplification? Is the denon 3805 not enough power when driven in 7 channel mode to adequately produce center channel reproduction? I know the receiver is 110x7 but only good when rating it driving 2 speaks at same time, so maybe im underpowering my B&w system and should buy an outlaw 7125 external amp or something, but i need some advice b4 i shell out some dough, because i don't like having to tweak my system depending on if i watch an action, comedy, drama, sci-fi movie. i just want to be able to hear the words of the movies w/o so much laborious tweaking everytime i play a different DVD. On a separate note, im 80/20 HT/music. I really enjoy the 7 channel music reproduction which i find strange. Also, 2 channel music is also great. Prob is w/ HT. Room is 14 x 20 8 foot ceilings carpet, 2 couches, normal stuff center channel is placed on top of my 46 inch hdtv tilted down a hair using a dvd in the back in an attempt to aim the center speaker at my face.... any help or suggestions would be sweet thank you JEFF
I doubt that the Denon is underpowered, it has to be something else. How is the DVD player connected to the receiver? Have gone through the test tones?
Is the DVD player configured properly? (check your manual for proper set-up) sometimes we get too excited about putting things together that we neglect the manual. Check the audio configuration of the DVD player.
Oh and the Outlaw Audio external amp is such a nice addition You don't need an excuse...just get it...but if you have to justify it to someone...just tell them what you wrote down. lol!
hey thanks berny. dvd is connected to receiver as optical and tv thru hdmi. test tones i've been through a million times.. i've had the setup for a while.. just recently have given up on it test tones i will obviously get what my ear seems to think is equal throughout the system, center channel included. DVD is configured properly as manual states. I hate reading manuals cause i like to think i know it all at times, but this has got me and so........... i broke down and read the sections of the manual on my 2910 and im hooked up properly as far as the audio goes. If outlaw is my solution so be it not so happy to hear that as the solution (cause of the money) but at the same time devilishly happy to hear it cause i have really wanted outlaw since i have joined this forum and 1 outta 4 people are recommended to them. just gotta believe w/o hearing i guess.
Hey a quick question although i know the answer i guess... just a ball breaker when buying this amp. what is the best route at wiring the 7 power channels of the outlaw im about to buy in the next few days into my denon 3805 preouts. i don't want to be a cheap azz, but also don't want to have to buy new cables when i can afford the outlaw 990 counterpart thanks in advance, and thank you berny for your help.
Jeff, I am equally at a loss as to why your center channel is loosing dialogue. When playing DVDs, do you configure the audio options of the disk itself? You should see what the disks default to when playing. The dialogue should be very clear and crisp.
And no, the Outlaw is not your solution, it is just a great add-on for more efficient power. The unit itself has to function properly before adding outboard amps.
What do you mean the best route? My 7100 is connected to the pre/pro via the pre-outs of the receiver using Kimber Kables.
heh.. realized in my last post i will need 7 cables for connecting outlaw 990 970 etc.. or the same using my denon 3805 as pre/pro whilst using a separate amp so no need to clarify, sorry about last uber unintelligent post regards -jeff
i don't think im losing dialougue. no, just usually pop in a dvd and hit play which will default to dolby digital. problem is, me and my wife usually cannot hear the voices (dialogue) w/e when playing a movie. have to turn it up high to hear whats going on. i think that the problem may be simple.. i live in an apartment and to be able to listen to the dialogue at reasonable volumes, i just have to lower all the other speakers dbs. to patch the problem for the time being i have just simply put center at +12 db and all other speakers at -6db. don't think disc is prob as usually the 3805 defaults to DD. I'll actually run around the room sometimes to make sure sound is coming out of all the speakers, and it is. I figured there is not enuf current going to my center if i have to change the tones so hard, so that would justify an amp upgrade. I know it would not be a waste of money by any stretch to just purchase the outlaw and 7 patch cords from the same company, just wanted to make sure that this is WHAT i need to do. Thanks for any feedback and trying to help me Jeff
I think you got overly excited at the prospect of getting the Outlaw Audio.
You know...you can get a mono-block from Outlaw Audio and just use it for your Center Channel. Or do what I did, buy 5 or 7 monoblocks for each channel. I tell you it is worth it
good idea with the single mono block ;; well worth a try, i will go that route as i can just return it if im not satisfied. thanks for all the help berny. you da man. jeff
Hi Jeff, That is not normal at all ("+12 db and all other speakers at -6db"). I expect your test tones are way louder for the centre at this level, even if it "corrects" the dvd?
I'd suggest making sure you've got the digital inputs for audio and video matched correctly. You could be watching picture from input one and hearing the leaked signal (maybe?) from input two...
I was comparing s-video and rgb yesterday and caused that exact problem for a minute, had normal volume front and rear L/R, and a washed out muted front, (NAD T753 and Monitor Audio Silver speakers).
The amp was set to "satellite", and in the absence of any dolby signal, the signal being sent to the amp's "DVD" input was getting partially processed instead!
Click through all your amps inputs while the disk is playing, you might find one with no picture, but the proper sound : ). Either that or try physically changing the cable to another digital input. (I remember my dad trying to listen to a record, volume max, input selector set at tape and wondering why the volume was low...)
Apart from that, if I'm right about your test tone sound levels being out of wack with the dvd, at least it confirm the speaker and amplification is okay. If not, do you have a two year old you like to stuff things full of cotton wool?
Cheers, Mike
PS my dvd player has a "late night" option that boosts the centre relative to the other channels. Might be worth checking out too?
jeff, are you sure that LCR6s2 is in the right room? Just joking of course. It seems to me adding a mono-block merely attacks the symptom and not the cause. That Denon should have enough power to run that center well enough even in surround mode. Especially considering that it works the other B&Ws well enough. B&W rates its LCR6s2 @ 89 dB spl (2.83V, 1m) Mominal Impedence: 8 Ohms (min 6 Ohms) Power Handling: 25W - 150W into 8 Ohms unclipped.
ya not right here. denon 2910 hooked to tv with hdmi, and thru 3805 receiver optical only. your dead on w/ test tones. with the center jacked up to +12 and all else to -6 the center is much louder. Just seems with everything flat i have to go like -18 or so with most dvd's to be able to hear the dialogue well. and as u may imagine, when some sound effects kick in, the whole damn room feels like it will collapse, super power. don';t know if i should ditch the center to go w/ something not timbre matched but with better sensitivity, add external amp for it, or just be completely irritated by messing with the tonals totally throwing the whole 7.1 sound out of whack. I guess what im saying is if im watching a dvd with everything flat at 6pm, with the volume lvl at -15 (loud as all hell), it is pleasing to me but voices still a bit soft. but if i get home from work, put a dvd in and play the volume at say -22 db or so, i have to change all the tones and boost the center so i can hear the dialogue. I was going to order the outlaw mono block today, but as u suggest john, i may be jumping the gun, so i will tinker around with everything tonight to make sure all is well in the setup, which i believe it to be b4 i make and impulse buys. Thanks for the advice/ suggestions guys.
Jeff, First thing is do what Berny suggested and check the DVD 2910 configuration. Don't forget, there are separate speaker level adjustments in the DVD player. Make sure the center channel level is the same as the other speakers. See page 35 in your 2910 manual. While you're at it make sure everything else is a factory default on pages 36 thru 38. The one exception could be the "compression" setting.
You might want to try enabling the compression feature since you are in an apartment. My old receiver had that feature and I left it on all the time. It lessens the difference between the loudest and the softest parts of the audio track. Believe me the explosions are still effective. But with the compression on I could find a volume level and stay with it.
ok guys thanks alot for the help! i busted out both manuals 3805 and 2910. i found that the dvd player was hooked up right with everything flat. i forgot how damn big the 2910 manual was, took me about 2 hours to find out it was hooked up right... then, went thru the 3805 manual and changed a few things, set compression "on" as stated in post, and changed the distance of speakers to listening position. This definitely helped alot cause now with test tones, i set all channels to 0 db boost and +4 on center and it sounds a whole lot better. my wife digs it as she could watch king kong with good surround sound and actually hear dialogue. i wouldn't think compression feature would make that much of a difference but it really seems to help alot. i can live with having to turn the center up to +4 with everything else flat as its just cause i live in an apartment and need that boost to center so i can have reasonable volumes for action scenes and not outta hand cops pounding on the door effects (happened twice by the way!!) i almost was evicted, no joke. the super called me down to the office and told me if i get another noise complaint im gone, hehe. sorry about rant, but thanks for great advice and selfless attempts at helping a guy u don't know from adam tweak his system in an efficient, correct manner. I LOVE U MAN hehe still may grab some outlaw gear just to support my bad habit. i almost would have been happy if u guys said, well ur denon 3805 doesn't have enuf oomph to handle ur b&w 7.1 setup, so get the outlaw. i realize how rediculously ignorant that is of me but i have the "itch" to upgrade. bottom line, thank you so much for your time guys. i can now watch movies w/o having to worry about the cops coming to my door or having to set the tone different every time i watch.
em69, As I stated in my post above, compression "lessens the difference between the loudest and the softest parts of the audio track." One of Jeff's complaints was that he had to turn up the volume to hear dialogue, but when loud portions of the movie happened the volume was way too high. Compression makes the softest audio louder and the loudest audio softer. In other words, it diminishes the audio signal's dynamic range.
Another example of the problem is playing a classical CD in your car. Because of the considerable ambient noise in the car, you are forced to turn up the volume in order to hear the soft parts of the music. When all the musicians play loud however, the volume is too high. This is why radio stations apply some compression so that doesn't happen.
Regarding your receiver setting, you should try the least amount of compression needed. If you don't have any dynamic range issues, then the best thing to do is leave it "off." A lot depends on your ears, your specific equipment, your room acoustics and the ambient noise that's in it.
can't help but read your posts john and think how every company needs "one" of you for tech support. we need more john s's in this world :P
thanks again still haven't cracked and bought the outlaw i know the outlaw stuff is good and they can get away with selling it cheap being online only company, but it just seems to be almost like a fad or something to me. i almost went that route but i don't know if i could ever in my right mind shell out dough like that w/o listening even tho its backed by there 30 day guarantee. but, as you john and berny probably know as well as me, when u get into audio as a hobby, sometimes we are in an altered mind state when buying and contemplating gear to upgrade
