Dahlton AV 5.1 THX Home Theatre System?
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page| Thread | Last Poster | Posts | Last Post | |
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| Archive through March 28, 2006 | john | 100 | ||
| Archive through December 12, 2005 | Anonymous | 100 | ||
| Archive through September 07, 2005 | Anybody with their o | 100 | ||
| Archive through June 08, 2005 | WillyJ | 100 | ||
| Archive through February 21, 2005 | aurora1 | 100 | ||
| Archive through December 01, 2004 | Anonymous | 100 | ||
| Archive through September 28, 2004 | Disturbedphenom | 100 |
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New member Username: ScammednfloridaPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 | Apparently I've been scammed myself! Two guys, white SUV. Same misorder line. I offered them $100, and they almost drove off. So the other guy came around and talked me up to $200. Gave me his phone number, and the name of a bar where he usually hangs out at. Checked online to resell... and found this site. Geesh, what scammers. Lets try the phone number.... 954-330-5570, nope doesnt even work, he provided an order number so I can get the warranty. What a rip off. Hope I see these guys again...pop their tires, key their car, and mug them if you find'm. |
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New member Username: JoeschmoPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 | http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Kirsch-Loud-Speakers-K10-5-1-Home-Cinema-Sub-Woofer_W0QQ itemZ9704621630QQcategoryZ14993QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
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New member Username: AbraxsmithPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-06 | Hey Joseph, Do you honestly think anyone who has seen this webpage is going to bid on Ebay 4 your speakers? I mean, your picture's are "ONLY" of the box, not the actual speakers. Oh! and I love your refund policy. Are we studying to be a lawyer or something? ANYBODY WHO BIDS ON THEM DESERVES WHAT THEY GET! Lol!!!!!!!!!! |
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New member Username: HappierPOCO, BC Canada Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | Its true what they say about Andrew. Contact him. He will give you you're money back. |
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New member Username: CwsucksPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | For those of you in the Vancouver, BC area... The number to call to get into contact with CommonWealth Distributors is 604-988-8233 <-- this is their newest number. |
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New member Username: EsanchPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | Hey everyone out there that got taken 4 a ride, I'm sorry for all of you that did but if it wasn't 4 your postings I wouldn't have gotten a heads up on these 2 cons. These guys offered to sell me a Kirsch sorround sound system for $350. Two guys, one with glasses, mustache & pepper colored hair and the other an older balding man with a gold bracelet and tattoos. They were driving a brown safari astro van with California lic. plate # 4PCP166. If this description fits then do what you gotta do. |
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New member Username: AtowntxPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | Question: I was just approached at Home Depot about this Kirsch system, and I'm female and don't trust people who ask me stupid things like these guys did. And I'm broke, that helps. But, I did take note of the license plate # (odd things always happen at HD when you're a chick) and came back to work and looked up their "speaker system". This is what I found. Glad I didn't have the money or give them the time but after reading all of this, what exactly was wrong with them,? No one says what's wrong with them. It would be good to know why there are this many people upset and also it's good to know how widespread it is. |
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New member Username: Jmathis08Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | Hey everyone! I got scammed by two dudes today at an HEB in south Austin. They were driving a white Lincholn Aviator. One guy, the talker was a hispanic male about 25yo, wearing smoke colored sunglasses and the other was a skinny bald guy in a orange UT shirt. They were in a big hurry and had two Kirsch k3 sytems and caught my attention by driving up to me as i was walking to my car and asked if I wanted a "free" surround sound system. Well, of course that sounds good. But i was skeptical of course. Then came the magazine ad w the sale price of $2600 and the shipping invoice, and he could give me one to me for $400. I worked him down to $150, and he even drove me across the street to the ATM! but if anyone has more info about these jokers going around Austin, Texas, let me know plzz. |
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New member Username: SsbrandoPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | I paid $100 for the right and left 400 watt working Theater Logic T2400 R. They sound great but I can't find how much these things are really worth. I figure it still is a good deal but yes, they did the same stuff all of you are talking about. How he won't have enough room and they need to make a delivery to the Broadmoor (Colorado Springs, CO) It was two guys, Patrick and Richard. Pat even showed me his driver's license and seemed a real nice guy. Maybe I'm stupid and maybe I just got ripped off majorly today according to everyone else's story but I'm happy with it. I saw the magazine, the 'shipping order' slip, the whole back of the Chevy Tahoe filled with these speakers, and yes the guy loaded up the speakers, got in my car and him and his friend and I drove to the Bank and I gave him the money. So I guess I got scammed today but hey, so far it paid off so I don't have a problem with it. |
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New member Username: MahaabakiePost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | i had the same ting happenn to me.white van a guy named vick and an asian dude named will.gave me a kirsch k10.the only thing is it works really good.it kicks butt.but i dont know if its fake or not. |
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New member Username: NobodayPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | this just happened to my brother TODAY in vancouver bc, canada (surrey more specifically)...luckily he called me and i looked the speakers up while they were waiting...this site came up we called them on it...they swore and left...haha..thanks guys! |
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New member Username: CmgBoston, Ma Usa Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | OK: I bought a MTS 3100 home theater speaker system today......i got home, checked online and read some of these posts on various websites...the posts and blogs about the scam....about how the thing works but isnt really what they say it is....I was pissed but not at all surprised...after all, i did buy them on the street for what i was told was substantially less than their MSRP....but i then also did a few other things...i called the # on the receipt...and there was an actual business voicemail machine (it was after hours).....i then also looked at the box and noticed a web site so i went to that www.mtsspeakers.com webite and i noticed some additional #s to call, including a tech support line, so i called that # as well. that # also had a legit sounding answering machine....so i got to thinking, if this thing works, like people say it does on this blog, and if it sounds ok, and if there is a legit website, with legit contact info, with legit answering machines, and legit receipts, for both the MTS website and MTS telephone # as well as the New England Sound and Theater System telephone # and if somewhere, someone, who knows something about electronics and speakers had to produce these machines to do all that they say they do (play DVD, Tuner, sound good to at least the normal average ear), and then people had to them box them in celephane, styrophome, and then a cardboard box (that looks legit and appears to be mass produced with its pics and advertising, practically begging you to look into whether it is a scam or not), and then shipped all over the country, and then these street level guys have to load their trucks or vans and drive (paying insane amounts for gas), then having to stop and talk to use and make a sale,which is not easy b/c we ALL think it is shady so we ALL hesitate at first, until they show us the "magazine", which costs $$ to mass produce, and therefore is costing the "scammer" even more $$ himself)....so after contemplating all of this, I thought that MAYBE, just MAYBE this thing is actually worth the $300 i paid for it! and so i decided to take the thing out of the box and see what is was like.....now i am by no means surround sound expert, but it is loud, has bass, and reminds me of being in a movie theater, which is why i bought it to begin with! Is it worth the $300 I paid? I dont know....but you know what, I dont know if my Bose, or Infinity, or Cerwin-Vega, or Sony is worth what i pay for them either! The way this product was sold to me was real shady, I admit! And it is a little odd that they sell them for such a wide range in price! but i am stil not convinced it is a scam! maybe I am in denial! But i dont think i could have possibly gotten ripped off...I got a DVDplayer/tuner, 5 speakers surround, sub-woofer, all for $300...at least I know I didnt got ripped of any more than i do when i go to circuit city! maybe i just gave this scammmer a larger profit b/c his advertising was more creative? |
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New member Username: BilljunePost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | Collin, you summed it up pretty good. It actually looks and sounds pretty good. Not to mention I got a valuable lesson. I actually mistook it for Klipsch, the names are so similair. $200.00 for all that. The k3 5.1 looks so legit, and the distribution is so vast; I wonder who really got scammed? Oh yeah, for those of you who feel you were pooped. My experience went down in Las Vegas Nv. outside of Hooters on W.Sahara. 2 guys and 1 girl, youngsters driving a white Dodge Caravan late model licsense plate# 437-TBA. Hope this helps. |
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New member Username: Jeffy66Vancouver , Bc Canada Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | Does anyone have a phone number for that andrew guy in vancouver? I tried the above numbers and no one returned my messages, not that I am surprised. Thanks. |
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New member Username: CrazyflyPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | They are now in the Rialto,CA they tried to get my friend last night who works at a liquor store. Guy walked in trying to sell him the Kirsch Speakers. He called me on my cell phone asking me for advise if the speakers were legit or even good. And told him not to buy them and that it was a scam. So he did not buy the speakers. I have also seen them in Victorville,CA; San Bernardino,CA. Mainly all of the Inland Empire. |
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New member Username: MkokoPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | SH*T. i can't believe what I am reading. Does anyone have the number or address where you can get a refund in Philadelphia? I just spent an hour and a half in my car trying the business address on Green Lane and Emelie Dr. in Levittown but it was bogus. Two guys in white van approached me at a gas station in Roxborough PA. I got hit for $400. The speakers work but i was only planning on using them if the roommates would split and if not just sell them on the internet. Well after seeing this I won't even try selling them on Ebay becasue that would be terrible karma. They had a magazine that looked legit, it really seemed like such a good deal. I can't believe it!! |
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New member Username: Skisquaw17Post Number: 1 Registered: May-06 | They're in the Denver/Boulder area now. They're driving a Silver SUV, Trailblazer I believe with Florida plates. Got me for $260 b/c I'm poor and was about to drive away. I needed new speakers but not from these two. One dude has long hair other one short blond hair w/ a white hat. Ski goggles in the mirror. |
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New member Username: PolinaVancouver, British colu... Canada Post Number: 1 Registered: May-06 | can anyone tell me what`s wrong with those speakers, cause i think yesterday i bought them from two guys on the parking lot , the same story , ( two australian guys, white van ) |
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New member Username: PolinaVancouver, British colu... Canada Post Number: 2 Registered: May-06 | I tried to call Andrew Radford in N .van. one is fax , and the other one is the wrong number, Please if anyone knows the numbers, post them, or e-mail me. |
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New member Username: PolinaVancouver, British colu... Canada Post Number: 3 Registered: May-06 | everybody , who got scammed in vancouver area, please contact me at tbarbara7@yahoo.com |
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Bronze Member Username: BasicaudioChula vista, Ca US Post Number: 87 Registered: Mar-06 | Alana, depending on what you are sold, these are runoffs or copycats of actual manufacturers using cheap and inexpensive materials to produce them, similar to some of the cheap speaker systems by even known manufacturers like KLH, SONY, BIC,JENSEN and a few others. The only difference is that these van scams sell speakers that work, but they are coated with a fabricated look to make it look like they are the originals. they are not worth the retail lie written in the box, at most between $100-200 depending the models. There are legitimate manufacturers of these copycats. Most of these are made overseas like china or taiwan even those countries have high end and hi fi manufacturers, because of there is no strict patenting laws in some of those countries, they IMITATE known products using lower grade or cheap materials to manufacture them. Bose use cheap materials too, a merchant told me that something that cost $5 to manufacture, they up the price to 800% of what it's worth. Some of these mass products copycats or generic brands similar to the PERFUME/COLOGNE fakes, may sound ok or decent to some people, but to those who are audiophiles or enthusiast, they are junk! If you got one of those theater research, dog digital, da vinci, dahlton and the likes, they do have legitimate companies that sell them not thru a van, but they are not GOOD GRADE loudspeakers and definitely not hifi or hi end. Several of the people who comment on these have taken them apart who are technicians and found that they have cheap crossovers, wiring, insulation, ports, and drivers, using cheap fake particle board making it to appear as if it is a well made cabinet. Real good loudspeakers have lots of design concepts and manufacturing process that goes into them before being test marketed in the consumer base. If they are high end, most are handcrafted and the design engineers and craftsman take considerable time in developing and building such loudspeakers that's why some cost as much as a house or more! I do not know why people would buy speakers from a van in the first place. In the 80's those van type people used to sell VCR'S with a rock inside to make the box look like there's a vcr inside it? |
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New member Username: PolinaVancouver, British colu... Canada Post Number: 4 Registered: May-06 | I never heard about scam like that before. and in 80`s i wasn`t even born . Now i got some knowledge. thanks. |
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Bronze Member Username: BasicaudioChula vista, Ca US Post Number: 89 Registered: Mar-06 | If you want good sounding affordable consumer based companies for the average consumer that you are going to get your money's worth, check out FLUANCE a canadian company. www.fluance.com www.acousticsounddesign.com and www.bigbangelectronics.com are some examples of companies that sell them. BIC acoustech which has been around a long time since the 60's, have good HT systems for people who can't afford the more expensive systems. Athenas are good at more expensive prices. A much better system would be AXIOM, ORB, MIRAGE, KLEGGS, ANTHONY GALLOS, if you are looking for systems in the $1000-$2000 range. Any of these systems would way outperform anything bose has to offer. KEF, KLIPSCH, JBL, CERWIN VEGAS, INFINITY, POLK are the other good manufacturers at that range. Don't even think sony, unless you have money to burn. They are for people who's not that critical about sound but into less expensive systems. The other higher grade that would be good is BOSTON ACOUSTICS. Then there's the high end world which varies regarding what you want to do! I would like to stop hearing these van scams. For the amount you wasted on fakes, you could have got yourself a vintage 70's,80's, 90's high end speakers that are no longer made but will blow away many of the newer systems in the market at great prices at www.audiogon.com or at ebay One of the nice designs of the past just on bookshelfs that used for HT's is the OPTIMUS PRO lineaeum speakers which uses the ribbon linaeum tweeters that disperses at 360 degrees like the newer MIRAGE tweeters. For $500 that some have gotten scammed here could have gotten older models of magnepans, OHM ACOUSTICS, JBL'S, POLK, infinity. |
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New member Username: DebarePost Number: 5 Registered: Mar-06 | To those who have been scammed in the Greater Vancouver Regional District and Fraser Valley, apparently there is now more than one company scamming people in parking lots with Kirsch K3 home theatre systems and surround speakers. There is a lengthy thread at: http://www.scamshield.com/Sighting.asp?state=none&country=Canada&article=1 which also lists the new company as: Distributor/Manufacturer of Acoustic Response Speakers J & B Audio City: Surrey (or Langley) Province: British Columbia Phone: 604-596-7222 Contact: Jim Hope this new information helps those who have been scammed by someone other than Commonwealth Distributors. PS. Thank you Jim Watson for a very thorough outline of today's electronic offerings. Many of us consumers, including me, are very uninformed about home theatre systems, speakers and manufacturers. Your information was helpful. |
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Bronze Member Username: BasicaudioChula vista, Ca US Post Number: 92 Registered: Mar-06 | For $94 to $169, you can get a DAKIOM feeback stabilizer that will clean up, enhance, and make whatever SPEAKER system you decide to purchase including your HT receiver or stereo receiver/amp. www.dakiom.com For $20 at ebay and no more than $40-60 at amazon.com you can get a spatial enhancer from acoustic research TDS-202 that will bring your digital sources such as CD, DVD, vinyl or tapes into another level of sound, creating a 3 dimensional and lifelike sound. Whatever set up you have or decide to purchase, it will ENHANCE and make your system SOUND more ENJOYABLE. go to AUCTIONATICS an ebay store under SOUND PROCESSOR in the consumer electronic section if you are at EBAY...at amazon.com just type in the name and model number of the sound processor mentioned. These devices are called PSYCHO ACOUSTICS. This is the most ECONOMICAL and inexpensive sound enhancement you can do for any system you decide to build. I have have been experimenting and using various methods to improve the sound system for over 20 yrs and have been in audio for 26 plus years. I am hear to help those who are not informed. There are also other experts here that know a great deal on many things regarding audio/video. Feel free to ask me for advice on these things. I can also relay you to other members here who are much more knowledgeable in other areas of expertise including the internal workings of amplifiers and loudspeakers and wiring etc. Hooking up systems is also one of my forte! Sound enhancement consulting is my expertise! I am a collector of loudspeakers and sound processors, that's why i'm familiar with many design concepts on the consumer end. |
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New member Username: DebarePost Number: 6 Registered: Mar-06 | Jim, as an expert, I thought you might enjoy these professional reviews of the White Van Speaker Scam products conducted by GR Research in Texas: http://www.gr-research.com/dahlton.htm and http://www.gr-research.com/diyevents/white.htm. It is certainly more information than I understand, but for those who know, it offers a detailed inside look at the components and the resulting sound (or lack thereof) from these cheap knockoffs. GR Research took the time to prove that the Dalhton (add Kirsch, etc) products are truly crap. It is always appreciated when experts (like yourself & GR) help neophytes (like myself & others) understand the mysterious world of electronics. |
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Bronze Member Username: BasicaudioChula vista, Ca US Post Number: 94 Registered: Mar-06 | Thanks for the research site Francois! I will check into it. This is my tips of the day when building an HT system. From most of the experts of installs(varies from taste)unless you are an experienced audiophile or enthusiast, It is suggested when purchasing a system, make sure that at least the FRONT AND CENTER loudspeakers are equally matched especially the brand/manufacturer (ideally all 5.1 including the sub)The purpose here is for TIMBRE or balancing of sound dispersion. Make sure to match your amplifier/receiver and dvd/cd players on the capabilities or lack there of regarding your loudspeakers. You do not want to have a high end $5000 receiver such as a ROTEL, PARASOUND, MARK LEVINSON, MCINTOSH, CARVER SUNFIRE for example on a KLH even though it's a legitimate company or bose speakers. You want to make sure your amplification is sufficient to drive the impedance of your loudspeakers and the minimum RMS/CHANNEL in wattage to drive them according to te manufacturer. For example if your speaker is a 4 ohm impedance(current)system, and your receiver outputs at 8 ohms, it will be an impedance mismatch which will either heatup and overdrive your amplifier/receiver or it will damage the load on your speaker thus damaging the voicecoil on your midrange and tweeter drivers. Unless you have an external amplifier and preamp that is being used for a receiver that that has PREOUTS for external components. That's difffent situation. A well matched HT RECEIVER/SPEAKER system is what you look for irregardless of price range. You can however mix manufacturers if the components being matched are suitable for each other regarding capabilities and specifications, that is why for those who mix and match, it's for those who know what they are doing and have sufficient knowledge to do so. Not recommended to people with little or basic understanding of HT set ups. Most installers and salespeople will tell you to match all components. The high end world is a little different and so as those have different tastes. But for the general public and general user, that is the general recommendation is to match components. You should always audition the system you are considering purchasing unless you are an already experienced user with knowledge of the manufacturer you are considering. The showroom is not always the ideal place to hear a specific system, because some systems sound good in a showroom but not acoustically in certain room enclosures, where as some sound horrible at showrooms but really sings in a home environment. That is why, it's not a good idea to purchase anything off the streets by ROVING PANHANDLERS OR WHITE VAN SOLICITORS. If they were legit, they would pay for licensing to vendor their products and go to legitimate channels like the bureau of commerce and get licensing for zoning and applicable business license to sell, having kiosks or booths either at conventions or outside known retailers and have working display models for consumers to test try a speaker system. Not all generic brands are bad, but you get what you pay for. If it's going to be cheap and brand new, most of the time, the manufacturer cut corners to produce the item. not much research, and engineering behind the product. Before any good model automobile is brought to the consumer, many tests are involved and many design changes before the final product goes into production. That is the same with legitimate quality loudspeakers or audio/video products. Just because it's an unknown name, it doesn't mean it's not a high quality manufacturer, cause high end manufacturers of any products are not known to the general public but to professionals and hobbyists. Researching by reviewing, studying and auditioning for such products is your best defense of being disappointed from what you perceive as a scam or rip off. Lots of people trying to make money in the world even at your expense. We are all gullible in one form or another, arming ourselves with knowledge is our best defense and applying those knowledge. Some of us have to be scammed enough times to learn and gain wisdom. YOURS TRULY, cause I too have been scammed in the past by fraudsters, not from audio/video electronics but online. |
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New member Username: Goldberg826Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA Post Number: 1 Registered: May-06 | Hello all. My name is Eric. I was scammed by these guys one year ago. I went into a parking lot (and I only went in the parking lot to turn around) then the guy in the van acted really nice, showed me some forms, the magazine and everything, and although I was only 17 and had no money on me, I bought the speakers for 500. Afterwards I had thoughts of going back and really hurting someone. But listen this is what I want to do now: Now I'm 18. I am a filmmaker as well and I would like to a do a documentary on these guys. The goal of the documentary is to stop them from going to these hotspots. The way I'll do this is I'll follow the vans. When I see someone falling for it, I'll approach the victim and explain to them that this is a scam. I will also need interviews of people who got scammed from these guys for the documentary, which everyone here would be perfect for. I can't do this documentary myself either. I may need some help. I live in Havertown, Pennsylvania and I got scammed in Ardmore which is ten minutes from my house. There will be a ton of stuff going on in this documentary. I'll even drive up to the warehouse by following one of these vans and go in undercover and see what it's like to get a job there. I'll also go up to one of the vans and try to return my unopened speakers for 500 dollars. It probably won't work, but we'll see. If interested in being a part of my documentary, which i promise will take these guys down, please email me at edgoldberg26@yahoo.com . |
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Silver Member Username: BasicaudioChula vista, Ca US Post Number: 102 Registered: Mar-06 | I am a former high end installer and most but not all high end and home theater installers obtain CEDIA certification in order to be recognized. It's similar to the AUTO MECHANICS'S certification process to make them legit! Character is another subject line. no amount of certification can prevent people from having bad character. If these people had means to TEST the product in front of you, then you can wisely make a determination. But to just buy it from a van, you know you are taking a big RISK? Unless you have already heard what they sound like and are intentionally wanting to buy them from those van people. IT's best not to buy anything you feel uncomfortable with. |
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New member Username: WhoopsPost Number: 1 Registered: May-06 | Got taken for 3 bills in Los Angeles. Some posts say they got a refund and I'm wondering how I can get one. I have no receipt. |
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New member Username: SocalguyPost Number: 1 Registered: May-06 | ARRESTED!! I CAUGHT 2 OF THEM WOOHOO!! Flagged me down at a Carls Jr. in Canyon Country, CA. Typical story I've been reading here; they are installers and had an extra Kirsch K3 unit that they needed to get rid of. Showed me a year old magazine with a wrinkled copy of the ad showing the retail value of the speakers. That was a dead giveaway so I decided to have some fun with them. Told them to follow me to best buy so I could return a xbox 360 so that I could have enough cash for the speakers. On the way, I called my buddy who did some online research and quickly found this website and others about the scam. I then called the police and told them the situation and they agreed to send a few cars. We parked at best buy, and when I came out, I whipped out my camcorder and started filming the guys and their car in case they decided to split. Then the cops showed up and started questioning them. They couldnt prove the merchandise was fake so all they were going to do was take all of their info down and save it for future reference. Then they got smart and did a background check, 1 of the a$$holes had a warrant for his arrest so they cuffed him. The other one couldnt prove that he owned the vehicle so they impounded the merchandise and car. To top it off, I got all of this on video, so if anyone got scammed in socal by 1 big tall white guy and his little partner, driving a burgandy jeep cherokee with las vegas plates, contact me ASAP and you can press charges against them while they are still in custody. I will post snapshots and links to the video so that you guys can positively identify them before proceeding... stay tuned for the pics/video |
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Silver Member Username: BasicaudioChula vista, Ca US Post Number: 104 Registered: Mar-06 | Legitimate sellers have appropriate licenses to sell in the public with a solicitation license, because these morons in these vans doesn't realize that they can sell these cheap products legally if they obtain the appropriate licenses and zoning permission from the city/commerce. If they were smart they would sell them at a swap meet instead of gullible scamming people. We are all gullible to an extent, but we must guard against scrupulous van scammers. If you guys end up spending 300 dollars on some cheap generic speakers plastered to look expensive, for that amount you can get GMI gemsound,pyramid, pyle professional dj speakers at any dj website or local dj store and it wall blow these cheap speakers out of the water. YOu can even use them for HT even though they are not pretty, but at least they are respectable and legitimate companies used by professionals. Like I said, the canadian fluance and swedish audio pro, american BIC for example make inexpensive but good quality ht loudspeakers for the amount you get scammed by these van theater or digital research or kirsch crap! good job socalguy |
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New member Username: Iceman85wdPost Number: 1 Registered: May-06 | OK... so about a year ago I got busted with a speaker scam... payed 120 bucks for an apparently 2800 dollar digital research system. All well, my bad. But I was real sore over getting burned. Well this weekend I went to my girlfriend's new appartment and met a few of her new neighbors; they were chillin outside drinking, so were we, we got to talking. So the next day I was hanging out with them until she got off work and they start asking me if I wanted to buy some loud speakers from this brand called Kirsch (you gotta give them one thing... at least they are trying to immitate a good company). I told them I would think about it. But I was wondering exactly how illegal it is and if there's anyone I can contact to bust them because I am still pissed at the dude that burned me. If there's anyone from the Raleigh, NC area that got burned, post on here... maybe I'll get their address and you can make a return. :-D |
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New member Username: Ben_therePost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 | Well I just got off the phone with a guy who called our store to inquire about this speaker set "Kirsch" and ask was it quality. He said some guy was in the parking lot of Home Depot trying to sell them, wanted to know if it was a good deal or not, So not ever having heard of them I went to the web to see what I could find, And I found this forum, So as I and a co-worker read the diffrent post of people saying how they had been scammed. I couldnt help but register and reply. People are funny creatures, they give in to their basic emotions and then complain when it dont work out,wanting something for nothing, (Hey I admit in my youth I bought a set of white van speakers too) SO I,am not criticizing just reflecting trying to get some people to be honest with themselves. You get what you pay for. Most people know the fair market value of goods or at least a general idea based TV adds or other such advertisements, So when a guy in a trench coat says "Pssst" you wanna good deal? I got a set of 3100.00 speakers, When they were loading my deliver truck they accidentally gave me and extra set. So instead of alerting the warehouse they made a mistake (because I have no integrity as a person) I decided to sell them to anyone who could use them (Basically because I have no integrity to return what I know isnt mine) These are worth 3100.00 but I will sell them to you for 300.00 1/10 of the retail price ! (using whatever excuse is handy, gotta make rent, baby needs food, wanna get high, etc etc)... Now you part You say to your self "Hmmn what a deal!" (excitement fills the mind I,m getting something for nothing that dont happen everyday I must have this) Then you ask all the questions like are they stolen,good quality,etc etc. Then you look at them they look good and the price is too good to pass up. (then you justify it well it was just a stock error not like they are stolen, nobody will know etc etc) Yeah consutling the Dark Side Muhahaha, good way to make a desision  So in you pocket out with the cash or check and You are now the proud owner of what you know was too good to be true! Later..common sense seeps out...Hmmn they dont look all that good..they sound ok But even if i had 3100.00 to burn I wouldnt have paid that for them, So ya do some checking and find out ya joined the suckers club annual fee whatever ya paid the guy for the speakers,watches or whatever ill gotten gain ya purchased at the time, You however did not get SCAMMED you signed up for this life lesson fully at your own free will So dont cry and complain you ask for this as painful as that is to accept (yes it sucks accepting blame) but its the hard cold reality of it, So in close let us all just take our lumps and laugh we should have know better and next time we shall, (if not consider the next purchase as your membership to the friggin idiot club) Nothing wrong with making a mistake as long as you learned from it. "We did what we did because that is all we knew..When we knew better we did better" Good luck to all and hope life treats you kind |
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New member Username: Beware88Post Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 | HI am in Vancouver and recently scammed. Is anyone else having a hard time getting him to call back. I went to their shitty office today but seems they are on the road from 9 to 5:30. |
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New member Username: Beware88Post Number: 2 Registered: Jun-06 | anyone in vancouver how long did it take for him to get back to you? its been a day and a half for me already? |
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Silver Member Username: BasicaudioChula vista, Ca US Post Number: 106 Registered: Mar-06 | It is not illegal to imitate the looks of a particular product as long as the PATENTED design or component from a manufacturer such as name, parts, design etc is not violated according to the clause in the PATENTING laws of the UNITED STATES. Since these are made overseas from another country. Our laws doesn't pertain to them unless it's an international law. What maybe illegal is SOLICITING if they do not have any solicitors license. Many of these scammers use false advertisement or claim. The product may be legal according to the laws of the land, but their practices may not be depending on what they are doing or what they did? I really have no problem with these generic products if they were sold at a SWAP meet indooror outdoor, cause such products are common. It's selling from a van without any licensing documentation which to me to my understanding violates various ordinances on city or state level depending on where you live. Each state and city have their own commerce laws! If i were you people i'd report them to the city's commerce dept or state. They would have been busted down by the FBI already if everything they did as a distributor is completely illegal. They are doing something legal in the distribution chain, it's their practices and marketing is what needs to be investigated. Since they seem to be allowed at ebay, and other legal online stores and even at 2005 C.E.S how amazing? they obviously got legal remedies done at least for that famous electronics convention. Your best bet is never buy anything from a van or vehicle. garage sale, swap meet, retail stores etc. that's fine. The van thing has been done for decades. They used the fake VCR crap in the 1980's regarding vans. These scam tactics is nothing new. Scammers seem to just advance like the rest of the industry. They did these speaker scams from a van back in the 70's and 80's also as i can recall. I know, i was reproached by such. I do not think anyone gets ripped off by these if you only paid $50 or less for a pair of new tower kirsch, digital research,dog digital, theater research, da vinci or whatever fake name they use. Cause you won't find a klh, rca, magnovox, jensen,emerson, philips speakers for that low. Those are consumer friendly manufacturers of inexpensive electronics. When they say these speakers components are made of kevlar, silk, metal alloy or some fancy material that real high end speakers use, you can sure bet IT'S ARTIFICIAL. if the crossover coils are not high grade such as large coils and capacitors or using good grade semi conductors and using heavy/large magnets on each drivers, you can sure bet it's made of low quality. Just the cheap cabinets tell you it's fake. It chips as soon as you bump it into something. Anything that's worth in the thousands is not made out of plastic artificial wood. |
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New member Username: Beware88Post Number: 3 Registered: Jun-06 | anyone in vancouver go there and get ur money back if you are not happy with the errrrrr purchase GL |
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New member Username: Sillyrabbit23Post Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 | There in the Fuquay-Varina, NC area. Husband got scammed out of $400 for the tower loudspeakers. Honey, If your reading this- you knew it was a scam. Come on home, supper's waiting...but its gonna cost you $400 |
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New member Username: BrineaPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 | I MUST ASSSUME THEY ARE LOCATED EVERYWHERE. I AM IN SOUTHERN CALI. I DID NOT NEED THE SYSTEM AND I HAVE NOT EVEN OPEN THE BOX. BUT I DID WRITE A CHECK FOR TAX PURPOSES. I WENT WITH THE STORY THAT HE NEEDED MONEY FOR HIS KIDS. HIS NAME IS TIM REED AND HE HAD TO USE HIS VALID ID TO CASH HIS CHECK AT THE BANK |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 8220 Registered: Dec-03 | And yes, typing in allcaps makes it all better doesn't it. |
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Silver Member Username: BasicaudioChula vista, Ca US Post Number: 107 Registered: Mar-06 | some of you who claim to have been scammed, i have to agree with berny, he is right! no one force anyone here to buy anything. The van thing like i addressed dates back to the 70's as i can recall growing up, with other types of products. Vcr's was the scams of the 80's and other unknown speakers that looked like pioneer and sansui as i can recall. Someone here made a good point as i have been trying to address is that even KNOWN major companies SCAM YOU LEGALLY with advertisement and accelerated prices such as NIKE with their $8 manufacturing cost in korea and taiwan selling retail for $100, and using an professinal athlete to promote a pair of shoes that's only last a year? what about bose? a merchant told me 800% distribution and importing mark up and I don't see the bose customers in an uproar? $20 bose cube sold for $199, give me a break and a $4000 lifestyle ht system. You can get martin logan's for that price. I don't hear any uproar??? These speakers are manufactured and imported LEGALLY! It is the marketing and advertising practices that is questionable. These are generic products like you would find in indoor swapmeets, conventions and so forth. Like I said, they are even in the C.E.S consumer electronic show last year being displayed. Theater research...they have been reviewed by ROBB REPORT, AV review and a few other reviewers. From what i read is what i have been saying all along. They are by no means HI FI, and definitely not high end, but mainstream general consumer electronics. On the plus side, one of the reviewers when disassembling the unit, indicated that some of the internal components such as crossovers and drivers, including internal wiring and cabinet resonance is not as cheaply made or poorly made as some of the inexpensive loudspeakers in the market, but did not consider it as anything but average or below average consumer based loudpspeakers. The particular model they were reviewing was decent for an inexpensive speaker but nothing to get all excited about in comparison to a decent made system. CANYON AUDIO is the actual state side manufacturer or designer of these speakers in reno nevada. They do over price it for what it's worth. They also manufacture like many US companies overseas in taiwan and china for cheap labor and cost runoffs and redistributed back to the U.S. At least, if you are going to purchase these brands, DON'T BUY IT FROM A VAN, buy it online or directly from the company. The reviewers said, like I said, that their top of the line tower or ht system should not be priced for more than $500 tops, and most of what you see at about $100-200 at the most, at least according to the reviewer from these audio/video magazines. www.4seating.com is one of the other legimitate places you can obtain these cheap speakers. By the way, AV magazine reviewers did an entire extensive BENCH test on these speakers, with the sinewave, spl test etc...lots of negatives and a few positive results regarding performance and ratings. Regarding speaker performance, you really didn't get ripped off that much since they are cheap and low quality, but better quality than some of the cheap and inexpensive loudspeaker systems in the market like KLH, MAGNAVOX, mintek, LG, jensen, emerson and the like...in fact, some of these are better than some of the bose that are even more OVER INFLATED! Just live and learn. If you people are so bent out of shape and going after the van people, just file a report to your local authority or FBI, but the problem is, they probably won't do much or anything because unless these people violated commerce laws, city ordinances, state and federal laws, they aren't going to pursue. I don't think there is a law for being GULLIBLE and NAIVETY! If you got these speakers, make the best of it by selling it or USING it, there are far worst scammers out there, they are called NIGERIAN 419 SCAMMERS from africa and elsewhere who will leave you completely empty with NOTHING. Just check out the FBI and US secret service websites. These agencies are more concerned about those type of scams than these VAN door to door sales, at least you got a product? nigerian 419 scammers will just lie, decieve and take everything you got for being too believing. Nigerian 419 scammers would make these van speaker people seem like angels in comparison! They are an international scam organization dating back in 1996 to present and an estimation of $100 billion since. they have even tricked corporations and small businesses beside regular people. |
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New member Username: Mad_as_hellPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 | they got me in Rocky Mount, NC. give me the address , i will go to Raleigh , NC |
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New member Username: RbhattPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 | Just got caught with the same scam...two white guys, chevy van...pulled up to me at a light asking if i liked home theatre systems and that they got an extra shipment of these which they no longer need and the company is willing to let them go at alot less than the MSRP..i told him i have no use for these as i cant fit anything in my apartment, and he's sell them to a friend and wait till u move out, and then showed me the magazine with the 3100 MSRP...i wanted to call my friend who knows about audio if he was interested or what he thought but he didnt pick up...i was tempted at the good deal as i talked him down to 280 even though that was alot...and i never even said yes and the guy put the speakers all in my car was talkin bout how great of a deal i got...i confused these with klipsche at first, and then when i got home to look up a website on them, this is what i found...now i was smart enough to ask the guy to see his drivers license and i wrote down his home address and basically im gonna go find a way to get my money back...i feel like such a retard, and im a broke college student and this really sets me back |
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New member Username: RbhattPost Number: 2 Registered: Jun-06 | was wondering, should i go there with my friends with chains and bats, or should i get the police involved?? this in new york city, queens/long island |
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New member Username: PhyzakPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 | Please help me. I've been driving around the Raleigh area trying to look for these guys with a couple of buddies for the past 3 hours. (Right after I saw this site) I feel like such a tool but I really needed a set of speakers so I suppose I was just feeling gullible. If any one has any info on these guys (One scrawny with long hair, one short with lip ring) I'll pay you money to find their whereabouts. Thank you, I just want my money back, my house just got flooded and I thought this was just the beginning of some good luck. PLEASE HELP. RALEIGH, NC area. HELP PLEASE! |
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New member Username: PhyzakPost Number: 2 Registered: Jun-06 | By the way JIM WATSON we're just venting. I'm sure you'd be upset if the same thing happened to you. Ofcourse having your "home" stolen by the "zaire 420 scam artists" is much worse than this. But if you cut someone it hurts and if you shoot someone it hurts, just at different degrees. And if there is a way to scam the scammers right back is that not just? Calm down and let these people attempt to get their money back. |
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New member Username: AnnakinqcballerPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 | i guess i got scamed, sorta. i paid 250 but hey are good speaker for that price. i mean u cant buy anything in best buy that that loud. but i just need a remote. my dog chew it and now it doesnt work. im in chapel hill , nc i will pay for it, maybe be some of you need to actually open them up and use them. u might be surprise on the qaulity. i know i was. o annakinqcballer@yahoo is the email |
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New member Username: Laton123Post Number: 2 Registered: Jun-05 | Hey I got scam today at Los Angeles Area, (South Gate). A white guy in a white minivan approach me with the magazine. He also had a Cerwing Vega celling for $200 he said it had an output of 600W he also had a clone of the logitech speakers the brand logo looks the same but one letter is missing also he had 2 sets of K10 5.1 1000W. and first he wanted for the K10 5.1 $400.00 and he said I give you a free dvd player I told him that I already owned one so he said I give it to you for $350.00 I said let me talk to my manager cause I dont got cash with me at this time ( I was working) so before paying him I told him that I wannted to hear how they sound so he said, ok let me connect the center channel, I told him connect also one of the towers and he kind of said , but if we unpack them its gonna be hard to put them in your car, but he was cool and he connect one of the towers. so at the end I gave him $320. He connect the FM antenna and it worked fine I cranked the volumen up and it has a decent base and the sound it is loud so I paid for them. I figure I knew that $3100 was to much for a system that had the amp on the subwoofer. But I knew that fir $320.00 they sound really good for that price. I like the way they look very stylish, The FM radio works good. The setting on the remote also work really good in terms that you can control the loudness of each individual speaker. I hear my friends Logitech similar models($350.00) and mine sound way better. So in conclution $3100 its to much but $200-320 its what the speakers are worth it. |
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New member Username: Unkadave11Post Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 | This scam is now going on in Baton Rouge Louisiana. Some guy named Gabriel in a 2003'ish Jeep Grand Cherokee silver color approached me at the RaceTrack on Sherwood Forest Blvd. I fell for it and got the K3 5.1 set up and the Theater Logic T-2450 towers. If anybody has any information about this going on in Louisiana please let me know. I really didn't have the money to buy this stuff and now that I find ot that it is crap I'm really pissed off. Does anybody have any ideas on how to find out how to track down the main operation? |
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New member Username: KnewbetterPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 | My Husband was just taken in Dublin GA today, these guys are operating all over the country, and CA in more than a couple of Vans. Try not to beat yourselves too bad, we have paid the cost of trying to get something for nothing, buy losing our money. However, the cost they will pay for lying and deceiving is much greater. Bodily harm is not necessary...their punishment will be much worst. You do reap what you sow X's 10, without a doubt. |
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New member Username: Railroad_mediaPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 | Andrew Radford Address: 705 West 15th Street North Vancouver British Columbia Canada Phone Number:604-220-8894 this works for anyone in the lower mainland badbusinessbureau.com/view.asp?id=185333 |
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New member Username: Danny11542Post Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 | Hey I got scam today at New York Area, (glen cove). 2 white guy in a burgndy minivan approach me with the HDTV magazine. he had 2 sets of K10 5.1 1000W. and first he wanted for the K10 5.1 $900.00 and i tol him i have is only $600 I ( I was working ) then he came back and said ok fine give me $600 and i went to my pocket i had is only $400 in my pocket then i told him i am sorry i thout i had $600 but i have is only $400 so he got to his car comes back in 10 min he said ok $400 is ok my partner is crazy he is not been nice to me at all i will take $400 and i give him $400 if i see him again i will bit the sh it out of them |
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New member Username: CrandallismPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 | i got scammed yesterday and im laughing because this is the funniest thing ive ever had happen to me - its sad because i needed that money and didnt want the speakers, but now i have pretty decent surround sound and a freakin hilarious story - what more can i ask for? |
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New member Username: CrandallismPost Number: 2 Registered: Jul-06 | houston tx - 2 guys blue van - it took like twenty minutes for the whole ordeal, they followed me in the gas station - they wanted to follow me to my house or to an atm - i didnt want to be murdered or robbed blind so i gave them what i had on me - even a cop i talked to thought they were real and stolen - i almost want to try and scam someone else to get my money back, but i think i like surround sound |
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New member Username: Rhino_Chicoutimi, Qubec Canada Post Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 | Salut je suis un gars de Québec au Saguenay (Chicoutimi) je me suis fait demander par 2 gars dans le stationnement de RONA L'ENTREPOT UN BLOND ET UN GROS TAS!, qui m'ont demander si je voulais un cinéma maison k3 5.1 surround pour 300.00$ et quand j'ai vérifié la marchandise je me suis apercu que la qualité du cinéma maison étais de la m***e, mais il n'ont pas poigné le bon gars j'ai pris mon cellulaire et j'ai appelé un des mes chums qui est assez bon en systeme de son et a vérifier sur le net en meme temps que les gars essayait de me le vendre et m'a averti que ca valait pas cher et que c'étais une crosse, alors ca failli tourné au vinaigre et les gars ne voulait de probleme et disait qu'il venait de Montréal, les criss de crosseurs, ils étaient dans une dodge caravane verte assez récente (1999-2002) probablement volé et commancait a devenir impatient , il m'ont fait le meme speech avec leur catalogue et j'ai demandé a ouvrir la boite et c'est la que j'ai vu que le cinéma maison était de qualité tres cheap!! ALORS FAITE ATTENTION ILS SONT AU SAGUENAY LAC ST-JEAN ET IL TRAINENT DANS LES STATIONNEMENTS DES GROS MAGASIN , RONA L'ENTREPOT , COST CO ET FUTURE SHOP ARRETER LES DE N'IMPORTE QUEL MANIERE ET APPELLE LA POLICE DE VOTRE COIN POUR FAIRE UNE PLAINTE ( UN BLOND AVEC LES YEUX BLEUS ET UN GROS AVEC DES LUNETTES ET LES DENTS ASSEZ SALE !!!!!!! |
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New member Username: 7ythefPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 | 2 guys approached me in the fraser valley, just outside of Vancouver, BC. They tried the same spiel they are giving everyone else. I told them to get lost and took a description of them, the van(white), and the license plate number. I phoned it in to the local police as they were still driving around the lot. Funny thing is that was back between Dec '05 - Jan '06. I stumbled upon this message board just today. Apparently it is still going on in Vancouver. |
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Silver Member Username: BasicaudioChula vista, Ca US Post Number: 111 Registered: Mar-06 | THESE DAVINCI AND THEATER RESEARCH or digital research HT receivers are a JOKE! even the cheap PYLE or SHERWOOD receivers are better than these JUNK. Fake specifications. what kind of moron would believe that a poorly made and cheaply made receiver have amplifiers that can put out 2000 watt rms total on 7.1, not even the carver sunfire, denon, pioneer, mark levinson, mcintosh flagships can do that. If you look at the back of these cheap receivers, you can tell they are only worth $99 at most! Don't buy anything anyone from a van from anyone unless it's a gun dealer...ha..ha..! at least if you know if they are selling guns, it's illegal! If you are going to get ripped off, get ripped off by known established companies like bose, sony, jbl, athena, klh, best buy or circuit city crap. if you want good sound, invest and spend more like companies like dali, von schweikert, quad, b&w, final sound, magnepan, martin logans, rel, orb, mirage, anthony gallos, pipedreams, genesis, beveridge, mcintosh, or water heater looking MJ loudspeakers or a work of art called transmission audio, german physik, duevel, mbl, cain & cain, avant garde and many more SNAKE OIL! i'm happy with my acoustats, maggies, eminent technology, and tons of ohm's! checkout decware too, similar to ohm philosophy. if all in doubt, just get dj speakers like gemsound, mackie, altec lansing, electrovoice, jbl, gmi, pyle, peavey, american dj and add tweeter boxes, after all public theaters uses them! |
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New member Username: Ferran411Post Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 | got scammed in Rehoboth Beach, DE at Wawa of all places...i knew it was a scam but it was $150 bucks for a set of Kirsch K803 speakers....HA...oh well i figured i wasnt gonna do nuffin else with the money no way...they tried to get me to go use the atm and i told the dude he could go f*ck himself...when he still persisted on try to sell them to me i made the offer for $150 and he took it...havent hooked em up yet...probably wont...dunno...just wanted to give a heads up of the 2 scammers in the white van with PA plates in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware area...oh yeah same sob story of being over stocked and sh*t... |
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New member Username: VeryunchappyPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 | i got scammed today ($697) on k3 in surrey fleetwood by two guy's driving gold chrysler minivan if you have any info on that please post it for educatinal porpuse |
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New member Username: RedemptionsamustPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 | yup these guys are roaming coquitlam center in bc my buddy just got nailed yesterday!!!he got the kirsch system for 200 bucks...havent heard it but can guarantee its garbage like the rest of their crap...i think i'll set them up for payback,go down their tell em i got buddys that will want to buy 2 or 3 systems and bring them to our hood and let them have it!!!just kidding of course cant post that on the net right?(winkwink) |
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New member Username: SeanpacinoPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 | I just got scammed an hour ago in the Upper East Side of Manhattan. Same exact story -- two white guys in a white van pulled up while I was retrieving something from my car. Talk about wrong place at the wrong time. Now after reading these posts, I'm completely pissed. Sold me a Kirsch K10 5.1 and an MTS-3100 for a total of $680. I knew it was too good to be true and I let greed teach me a very expensive lesson. They gave me a receipt and showed me an old issue of HDTV to prove how valuable these speakers supposedly were. One guy named "Jason" was the driver - very fat, about 6'0. The other guy, "Jack" had tattoos all over his arms and wore a plain white t-shirt, shorts, and a baseball cap. The receipt they gave me had the following info: S.C.I. 414 Sunrise Hwy., #137 Patchogue, NY 11772 (631) 589-4072 |
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New member Username: DannymillerPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 | Sales People Submitted: 3/25/2006 11:35:24 PM Modified: 3/25/2006 11:35:00 PM CommonWealth Distributors White Van Speaker Scam Ripoff Swindle Sting Cheat Con Theft North Vancouver British Columbia Company CommonWealth Distributors Address: 705 W 15th Street, North Vancouver British Columbia Canada Phone Number: 604-220-8894 Fax: Kirsch K3 Home Theatre System sold by con artists in silver Dodge Grand Caravan Unbelievable ... I'm SUPER vigilant about scams ... and the b*stards got me today!!! Three guys in a minivan approached me as I left my car in the Port Coquitlam Costco. "Myles" an Englishman with an official "installer's" ID badge said that he and his buddies has scooped an extra Kirsch K3 Home Theatre system, but had to dump it quickly for cash before getting to their next job. It sounded phoney, and I should have walked away, but they showed me some damn magazine that advertised the system for $2,495. They flashed a wad of bills from a previous customer that allegedly paid them half price $1,250 for the system. I said I wasn't interested. He pressed. I gave in and came up with $560. Man, I feel like a complete fool. However, thanks to information I found at that enabled me to contact Andrew Radford of Common Wealth Distributors in North Vancouver, I was able to get my money back the very next day. If you've been ripped off in the Lower Mainland or Fraser Valley of British Columbia (BC) Canada, you can call Andrew Radford to get a refund on your Kirsch speakers and home theatre systems. Francois Vancouver, British Columbia Canada I found this on http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff183311.htm I think everyone here should fight back against the magazine that would advertise for such scammers. I hope this info can help some of you out. |
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New member Username: AnonymousbuckeyePost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 | Fortunately, I was not taken for any money. I just happened to see a posting on Craigslist warning people about this latest scam. It would seem that they've set up shop in Vancouver, BC, Houston, TX, Ohio/PA, and other places. Not sure what can be done legally, but it is great that some of you have collected phone numbers, license plate numbers, description of the scammers, etc. Because one of you posted the website URL (which I believe someone said appeared on the side of the box), I did a whois and found the following I hope will help you guys.... kirschloudspeakers.com Administrative Contact: Kuo, shihyung [SK-346] 14322 ramona blvd baldwin park, ca 91706, US Phone: 6268137728 Email: william@ideaprint.com |
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New member Username: Sigma16Post Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 | To someone who could help: I am looking for a remote control for the Kirsch K-3 system. I anybody would like to sell one I would greatly appreciate it. |
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New member Username: Brenna77Sewell, Nj Post Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 | I got burned in a Acme in Glassboro New Jersey yesterday, same stuff, guy got overorder, he had high end sht, i barely thought twice about it, they got me ggood, although it was a good scam, they got me for 240$ If anybody knows these two son of a btches please let me know, i bought the 5.1 hpme cinema it is a piece of sht, probably woth 40 bucks |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 917 Registered: Dec-03 | I have watched this string for the past two years, and I cannot believe how many people fall for this scam, although I do understand it. However, for those of you feeling burned, it could be worse. Check out this news story: SOUTH BEND, Ind. -- Some Indiana residents thought they were getting a good deal on a flat screen television, but what they purchased turned out to be an oven door. Investigators in South Bend, Ind., said there has been a rash of oven door thefts recently, and now they know why. The fake TVs were packaged so professionally that victims had no idea they made a bad purchase until they opened the merchandise up. The oven doors even came with remote controls and power cords. It was a tough lesson for one victim, whose boyfriend bought what he thought was a flat screen television for $250. "If you're going to buy something from someone, make sure you open it up first," Leann Day said. "Especially if you're not buying it from the store." So far, police have arrested one man they believe is connected to the operation. |
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New member Username: KujsterPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 | I just got scammed this afternoon for a Kirsch K3 Home Theatre System for $500 in Coquitlam. I was meeting a friend at the Cactus Club for lunch and this white caravan with two young white guys called me over. Same story, they were over shipped and were selling it for $1000. What sold me was the magazine and the MSRP of $2499.99. Well I came home and googled the "Kirsch" product and found this website. Im really pissed off about all this and mostly at myself for falling in this trap (not listening to my inner voice). I have tried contacting Andrew Radford at the following numbers: house: (604) 605-8289 cell: (604) 220-8894 and both are no longer in service.... not suprised. I did have some luck with the (604) 988-8233 with a answering machine. Hopefully someone will call me back (if they do I will post the update on this site). As for their North Vancouver distribution office (located at 705 W 15th), I went there at about 5:30 pm and it looked pretty empty and there was a sign on the window (facing Bewicke Ave) "for rent". If anyone who has any information on Commonwealth Distributions new address please do let me know.... kirschscam@hotmail.com |
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New member Username: ScamsitePost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 | Anyone know contact info for guy selling Kirsch K3s in San Luis Obispo, CA? |
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New member Username: BrineaPost Number: 2 Registered: Jun-06 | HAS ANY BODY USED THE SYSTEM. I THOUGHT I GOT BURNT BUT IT SOUNDS BETTER THAN THE SONY SYSTEM I PAID $300 FOR AT WALMART. FOR $200 I NOW USE IT IN PLACE OF MY SONY WHICH I GAVE TO THE KIDS |
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New member Username: DcpsPost Number: 1 Registered: Sep-06 | Ok so heres a little bit more info. I got sold in Santa Barbara, Ca. They were in a silver dodge caravan with nevada tags "634 TJA" Please if theres anyway I can get my money back in southern Ca share the info. I tried calling Andrew Radford but no luck the number no longer exists. I spent my tuition and book money buying these in the hopes that I could turn around and sell them for a few bucks. Realisticly im not expecting my money back with no receipt or anything. But hopefully one of these guys slips up and one of you catch them if you do kick them in the teeth for me please and since this a**hole gave me the run around: kirschloudspeakers.com Domain Name Owner: Kuo, shihyung 14322 ramona blvd baldwin park, ca 91706 US Administrative Contact: Kuo, shihyung [SK-346] 14322 ramona blvd baldwin park, ca 91706, US Phone: 6268137728 Email: william@ideaprint.com Technical Contact: Kuo, shihyung [SK-346] 14322 ramona blvd baldwin park, ca 91706, US Phone: 6268137728 Email: william@ideaprint.com Billing Contact: Kuo, shihyung [SK-346] 14322 ramona blvd baldwin park, ca 91706, US Phone: 6268137728 Email: william@ideaprint.com Record Information: Domain Record Created: May 20, 2005 00:00 Domain Record Updated: November 17, 2005 13:50 Domain Record Expires: May 20, 2008 00:00 DNS Information: Name Server: ns1.geodns.net Name Server: ns2.geodns.net or call "William Kuo" on his cell phone at (626) 786-5585 Idea print was the shady company that prints those magazines. He apparently "has no idea" about any of the scamming. |
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New member Username: TsmPost Number: 1 Registered: Sep-06 | Just as an FYI, I live in Atlanta, GA and the same thing goes on here. I replied to an ad about 4 years ago when I graduated college for a "professional AV technician". Well, it turned out that meant driving around in a van all day (7am-7pm!) and trying to pull this scam on people. I was horrified from the beginning and refused to partcipate. I just sat in the back of the van and the two guys up front tried to engourage me to scam at every stop, but I wouldn't. When we got back to the warehouse where they keep hundreds of identical items (speakers, etc.) for the purpose of running this scam, I simply left and never came back. It was a different name, not Kirsch, but the same crappy products and magazine too. Same pitch and everything. I know it's illegal b/c one time we saw a cop in one of the parking lots these guys were going to pull into and they were like "oh s**t, cops!" and sped away. Just thought I'd give you all some insight from the other side. |
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New member Username: WestnorthPost Number: 1 Registered: Sep-06 | Hi, I'm new here I almost bought this guys crap today. With the "I have an extra one" story and the fake magazine. He was in South Central LA. Thiis guy seems to get around a lot. I have some pics of him and his minivan Ill post later. |
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New member Username: WestnorthPost Number: 2 Registered: Sep-06 | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/mastrehalo/artists.jpg The guy in the blue work shirt was the one trying to sell 'em to me, and the one in red was in his van I dont know if he has anything to do with it though. Has anyone else seen there guys? |
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New member Username: WebcrackerPost Number: 1 Registered: Sep-06 | I got taken for $620. At Moapa Valley, NV during a roll-over accident back up. Ugh. I got their plates though, cause I was suspicious as I drove away. It was LDL 838 or 838 LDL Nevada plates, white van. So the stuff I bought is really garbage? The used the beer/lap dance thing on me, too. Two white guys, one said he was from Boulder City, the other guy had a beard, both in 20's. It was the Indian reservation turnoff, Moap Valley tribal enterprises. Ugh, I'm so blown away. Had the magazine article for $2,700 MSRP. This just happened a couple of hours ago. Taking equipment to Mesquite for a job and had "over-ordered". I should know better. |
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New member Username: IgotmyrevengePost Number: 1 Registered: Sep-06 | I have seen this type of scam for at least 15 years now. I bought some speakers years ago in my foolish youth. The guys were kind enough to drive me to the pawn shop to pawn my camera. I got taken at that time for about $200. A lot of money for a 17 year old. Luckily, the speakers they were selling were decent, but by no means worth $200. I was approached here in Houston five times since then. I did get the last laugh, however. Some of these guys caught me at just the right moment about 8 months ago. You see, I have a concealed weapon permit. Yes, as crappy as it sounds, I held those f**kfaces up at gunpoint. They made the mistake of catching me on a fairly empty street, pulling up next to me in their shitty Astrovan. I told them that I had been wanting some new equipment, and wanted to do this thing. We pulled over and I'm sure their mouths were watering at the thought of scamming someone out of big money. Out comes Mr Ruger and there was nothing they could do about it. Their own damn van blocked the view from the road. Also, it's not like those scamming f**ks were gonna call the cops. $1,685 was what I got. I wish I had seen them later in the day. Maybe they would have had more. The best part was the look on their faces!!!! I told them that they had better find a diff line of work...LMAO. I should have taken one of their boxes, but it all happ so fast I was in my car and down the road almost $2k richer before I knew it. I suggest more people do this to these a**holes!! I do warn you guys that these guys are very unsavory types. I only pulled it off because there were only two of them. |
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New member Username: TtfalconRaleigh, NC Post Number: 1 Registered: Oct-06 | Well, I have to admit they got me too in the Home Depot in Fuquay Varina, NC. Same M.O. White van, two guys with 2 magazines and a previous invoice to the customer before and said they got double stocked and wanted to sell them before they had to go back to the factory. I got their liscence plate if anyone wants to help me find them to get our money back. |
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New member Username: TedlevyPost Number: 1 Registered: Oct-06 | I BOUGHT A PAIR OF k803 FOR 200 CLAMS. i GOT THE STORY FROM TWO WHITE GUYS IN A CADDIE. SOUNDED GOOD WHEN THE BROUGHT OUT THE MAGAZINE. TOOK EM HOME HOOKED EM UP AND THEY SOUNDED OK. HAVE MOST OF YOU EVEN LISTENED TO THEM? THEY LOOK BETTER THAN THEY SOUND. THIS WAS IN SAN DIEGO |
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New member Username: TheatretodayPost Number: 1 Registered: Oct-06 | Although people who paid over $300 for these probably paid too much, for $200 you are not going to get a full 5 speaker system with towers for cheaper. If you are unhappy with the sound of the speakers (I have heard a number of these different speakers, Dahlton, Dogg Digital, etc) which actually sound much better than some tiny speakers that sell for MUCH more, then all you have to do is order some new crossovers and drivers from partsexpress.com and replace the drivers in the speakers you have. You can spend another couple hundred dollars and have some KICKIN' speakers. Obviously the MSRP on these is outrageous, but if you have already purchased them they are 1) pretty good speakers compared to what you get at the big box retailers 2) not audiophile speakers, but can be modded for cheap into some awesome speakers 3) just the speaker cabinets are worth more than $200. Just try to find 2 tower speaker cabinets, 2 bookshelfs and a center cabinet for less than $200. Good luck. For those who feel "scammed" try modding these babies. You won't be sorry! |
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New member Username: SwtgoldenbPost Number: 1 Registered: Oct-06 | KIRSCH LOUD SPEAKERS Today my husband got approach by a gentleman in a white van was ask to purchase the k803 series speakers. My husband told them to follow him home to hook up to see whats up asking for 300. while they were on there way he call me to look it up on the internet, and yes we did find a site saying it was worth 3100. but it didn't work properly when he hook it up to the receiver. we also seen it on ebay these same serious from 65. up to 450 and different sites. my husband knows all about the home entertainment system , so by hearing it he knew it was a piece of crap, eventally the guy told him the so call truth about the hook up.. that he makes about 160k a year , one of the companies base out of dallas, they have a contest on how many they sell each month, incentive all the above a real business on scanning him and my husband even start joking on how he claim he could have gotten to HUSTLE my husband if he didnt set it up, "so he got scam instead" what he said as he was packing it up and putting the equipment back in the car. SO HEADS UP FOR ANYONE OUT THERE !!!!!!!!!!! however my husband grew up and know the game as well about hustle thats nothing new to us and where we come from. he stated that he only paid 280. for the equipment it is really a real manufactory that makes the stereo , but it is not worth what they say, nor its not the quality they say even for 280. it was rattling and everthing , and I know that is not good. DALLAS, HUSTLER WIFE |
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New member Username: Itz_jimLakewood, CA USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-06 | I got hit today in Costa Mesa (CA) (near OC swap meet) today at the Starbucks. Nice guy named Mike. I picked up the K3 5.1 Home Cinema system for $200, he said he was from Vegas and it was overstock. Magazine definitely fooled me. I havent taken it out of the box yet to see if it works. If it doesnt, oh well....lesson learned. |
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New member Username: BusinessventurerPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-06 | seems like a pretty lucrative business. there are more suckers than i thought. anyone know how i can get started? |
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New member Username: EvertrustPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-06 | Same thing happened to me today in Austin, TX When I came home to get the money I did a google search and found this forum. They were supposed to come back in 10 minutes and give me the speaker. Then I called 911 and reported them and they sent a dispatch here. I didn't go outside to see what happened but I think they got arrested. Next time this happens make sure to get their license plate number. Because they can easily find their information with the number. They had a silver Expedition. One of them was white and the other one Hispanic. phone number: |
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New member Username: Suprarx7nutPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 | They're in BOULDER, COLORADO New JEEP COMMANDER 533 NXV PLATES Vinnie C? WTF man. seriously think about what you're considering. Its not murder, I'll give ya that. But its not anywhere near right or good. Im no preacher and Im not a great person, but jesus f-ing christ man. You're telling me you can find another way to make good dough? Go work construction, or highway striping. You make good, legit money and dont hurt anyone at all in any way. Not to mention its a safer, more sure means of work. Gets ya in shape, requires no experience, and its easy to move up and earn a lot. KEY WORDS... EARN!!!... Just think about it. How would you feel if your mother/wife/children got taken by these people. Its not right and if you're a decent person, you wont contribute to the problem. |
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New member Username: BusinessventurerPost Number: 2 Registered: Nov-06 | gosh...relax supranut. i haven't even found a supplier yet. fyi, i don't pity suckers. if there is one in my family, they deserve to be taken. hopefully they will learn from it. |
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New member Username: Suprarx7nutPost Number: 2 Registered: Dec-06 | Haha, ok man. I'm sorry you lack any integrity. Some of us can make good money wihtout decieving/taking advantage of other members of society. I hope you find me, i'll waste hours of your time just to say "f--k you a--hole, I know your business" in the end. Done it before and I'll do it again. I love the look on their faces. They're so pissed. |
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New member Username: ImryanisellspeaksPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 | Hello Andy!!! Hello speaker buying public of Vancouver!!!! It's really him!!!! The only TRUE speaker van celebrity!!! Red Headed Guy With Accent!!!!!!! Otherwise known as ...... MINTY!!!! Back in Aussie. Back in Beer. Back in every Blonde he finds!!!! Let's hear a few words from the man himself. "Hi everyone I'd just like to thank my sponsors Commonwealth Distributors and of course the Greater Vancouver District population!!! Particular thanks to Jordan, Keith and Peter (Aston Martin Petey! Big shout out my friend. Thanks for the $1100) Thank you once again, all fan mail can be sent to consmc@hotmail.com . I'M OUT!!!! Wow. On behalf of ecoustics I'd like to extend my most gracious thanks to the MINTY Managment co. for so generously allowing Mr Hanrahan to attend our forum for only half his usual fee. MINTY EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!! |
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New member Username: ImryanisellspeaksPost Number: 2 Registered: Dec-06 | requires no experience, and its easy to move up and earn a lot. KEY WORDS... EARN!!!... Yo Supranut. Next time you say "words" as in the plural, how bout using more than one. A mistake like that could've cost a speaker man like myself a sale. Gotta stay consistent. Having said that YOU are my target demographic I suppose and "The customer is always right..." Nah... I'm right. You need to work on your grammar bro. A bit more application to study and the like, might've saved you money in the long run. Hindsight's a b1tch ain't it. |
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New member Username: Suprarx7nutPost Number: 3 Registered: Dec-06 | If you cheat in an exam and get a good grade you have not EARNED anything. If you cheat others out of their money, you are not earning a living. You're using whats known as "rationalization". It means you try to take something you realize is not quite ok and you concieve a reason why its ok. Such as.... well if they're dumb enough to believe the bullsh-t I tell them, then they need to learn a lesson. Its not my fault they dont realize I'm lying. "rationalization". Look it up, it's a psychology term. I'm not saying you guys are ruining society or anything, but lets be perfectly honest. You guys make your money by flat out lying to your customers. You have a fake magazine page ad, you say you work as installers, you say its an extra unit or whatever. The speakers are NEVER high quality and you always claim they are. If you told the truth, you wouldn't sell sh-t. Its that simple. You HAVE to lie/cheat/deceive to make a living. How does that make you feel? Do you have a conscience(sp?) at all? Do you honestly feel that its an ok thing to do morally? Ethically? haha, I know you'll say yes and then use some sort of "rationalization" to back it up. You are a part of the scum of the Earth, there's no way around it. |
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New member Username: ImryanisellspeaksPost Number: 3 Registered: Dec-06 | Hey supranut. You just gobbled on for 15 minutes like a wh0re on a c0ck without ever addressing the message I originally sent you. Once again the consistency in your brain function is lacking. It's inconsistencies like this that made you buy speakers out of the back of a van. As for the moral highground you seem to be enjoying, I'd take a second look because the water is rising. So someone offered to sell you something that they had gotten illegaly at the expense of another person (company or not. someone is paying eventually) and YOUR problem isn't that "holy crap someone somewhere EARNED the money that paid for this and I'm about to take that hard EARNED money awway from them" No no, YOUR problem is the quality of the product you bought, assuming YOU were taking someone elses hard EARNED money. So using this logic, lets say someone goes out and steals a B&W system worth $30k of someone elses hard EARNED money then you'd be fine with the guys selling that. Yeah. The kid who sells speakers (With a 5 year new for old warranty and a return policy) for a year to pay for his travel expenses and first years university tution is the scum. Supranut you make me sick. You arent pissed I took peoples money, you're pissed I'm better at it than you are. |
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New member Username: Suprarx7nutPost Number: 4 Registered: Dec-06 | haha, ok. To answer your first reply... I'm not sure I get your point. You're saying I needed to use more words? Speak correctly? This isn't a fu-king essay, its a forum. You understood me just fine. Now, Who said I ever bought any speakers?....I did, but I got most my money back, not from the people that sold it to me, but to someone that needed a sub.(That was a run-on sentence, but again its a forum, so its ok.) I paid just more than what it was worth. (I bought a sub) It sounded ok, but I bought it to sell. They said they were on their way back and they had an extra system. They said they had called their boss, checked it out with him and he said everything they had was bought and paid for and if any was extra, it was the kids' responsibility to just find someone to buy them so they could just cover the wholesale cost. SO I DIDN'T BUY STOLEN GOODS. I know thats illegal and I would never do that. I was hoping to make some extra Christmas money, if I could sell them again, or just break even. I didn't break even, but didnt lose much. SO.... my problem is not that I got a crappy product out of an SUV. I knew that was a risk. My problem is that they blatenly lied to me. If they didn't have a fake ad in HDTV magazine, or false invoices, or ten false stories I wouldn't really care. The part that gets me is that you people think what you do is ok. I'M A KID IN COLLEGE PAYING FOR MY TUITION!!!!!!!!! GUESS WHAT???? I WORK!!!!!!!! AND I NEVER LIE TO PEOPLE AT MY JOB, I PROVIDE A SERVICE TO SOCIETY FOR WHICH I AM FAIRLY COMPENSATED. I dont want to be "good" at what you do. I'm glad you're better at it than I am. I'd MUCH MUCH rather be a successful mechanical engineer. Or even just an average one. At least I'll know I've never screwed anyone out of their money. |
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New member Username: Suprarx7nutPost Number: 5 Registered: Dec-06 | By the way, you know its a scam right? The only people not under that impression are those that do it, and those that want to. To everyone else its a scam. I'm not the only one that thinks what you do is wrong. Its everyone besides you and your fellow speakermen. |
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New member Username: ImryanisellspeaksPost Number: 4 Registered: Dec-06 | Supranut. If you are as you claim a student. You need to spend more time studying and less time getting pissed at people. You don't get my point? My point is you claimed to be presenting key "words". Words represents a plural (For those who didn't quite get that concept earlier it means more than one)You then only presented one key word. Now that we're all on the same page you need to understand a few things. Now I know you aren't the brightest spark, so I'll type very very slowly. It's not a fake magazine. What you are referring to is an advertised MSRP paid for by Kirsch just like any other print advertisment. There are no false invoices. The Purchase order you are referring to is an accurate record of what was loaded in the van, so as to keep inventory records up to date with sales. So there are two of your problems gone. Now as to the "Ten fake stories". The only one you have cared to mention is that they told you they rang their boss and he said it was ok for them to sell the system. Now I'm just spitballing here but if I'm the manager of a sales based company and my employees ring me and say "Boss can we sell this system?" I'm going to give them a rather emphatic yes. It just makes sense. Also you say this is a scam? If it was a scam would there be a company that stands behind the product with a warranty and return policy?? Maybe you need to read the posts of the people who bought the system in Vancouver. Shock horror those who tried to, got their money back. Also a scam is by definition illegal. Now can you please show me where it says that an impulse sale- with recourse for the customer to receive a refund and product backing- is against the law. Supranut you seem to be very very angry and I think I know why. You've been banging your head against a wall trying to prove a theory you've based entirely on ignorance with evidence supporting it which is essentially hearsay. And with all the emotion that you've invested in this argument I can see how it's hard for you to look at anything objectively anymore. I hope that me clearing all of this up for you has helped to ease alot of those subjective thoughts that where harming not only your argument, but also I'm sure your ability to function as a happy everyday guy. Smile Supranut. Just think, you could've been one of those guys who fell victim to a scam like the oven door plasma. But you didn't. You were excited into an impulse buying decision which you had recourse to amend had it been detrimental to your economic situation. The fact you were too full of ignorant pride to see that without it being spelled out to you here is a little sad, but hey. Live and learn Supranut Peace love and rainbows to you all. I'm going to go roll around in a big pile of money now. Minty |
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New member Username: Suprarx7nutPost Number: 6 Registered: Dec-06 | Well your reply was more level headed, I'll give ya that. And I'm not very angry, I'm simply perplexed people make a living like this. And please don;t insult my intelligence. I am in fact a student and I have a very respectable 3.5 in the College of Engineering. I'm not slow. I dont know how you guys do it in Vancouver, but I was given a business card with all fake info. The address didn't exsist, the phone's weren't active and the company doesn't exsist anywhere in Colorado. So I can not in any way get a refund. I was told I could, but the douchebags lied to me and gave out false info. If all it was was an impulse buy then that'd be ok. But its not in my case. Furthermore... The magazine was real. It was HDTV magazine, the full page ad, was also real, but was not actually a part of the HDTV magazine. HDTV never placed an ad for the system in their magazine. I checked the issue online after the fact and the page they had it at was completely different. The invoices had the same address as the business card, so yes the invoice in my case was fabricated, not an actual invoice. So in my case it was a scam. And false advertising is illegal. So uh.... ya.... sorry man, it was a scam. But don't get me wrong, I made most my money back, I'm not boiling over in anger, I'm just amazed at how many of you are willing to do this. If you have a good return policy then great, but plenty of speakermen give out fake info and leave their customers with no means of making a return. |
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New member Username: TapmanPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 | I purchased a pair of K803 Kirsh Loud Speakers from the same scam and I thought that I had just lost the 180 dollars I spent on them. However I bought a reciever and hooked them up and to my surprise they sounded great. Of course they are not 3,000 dollars speakers but for a 180 I think they sound rather nice. I am in college and we throw parties at my house atleast once a week. We have been using these speakers at probably 20 big parties by now and I have had no problems with them. I get complements on how loud they sound. The main thing is to make sure you have a good reciever going to the speakers and all of the wireing is hooked up right. So my advise is to check the speakers yourself before you get so upset, they might be just the thing you were looking for. |
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New member Username: Suprarx7nutPost Number: 7 Registered: Dec-06 | You should check the impedence(resistance). Its normally fine, but I know people that have had cheap speakers blow an amp in their reciever if the resistance is too low. It should be at least 4Ohm. And you need to check the resisitance yourself with a multimeter, they always say its different than what it really is on the packaging/back of speaker. Haha, my sub said it was 4kilo-ohms. F-cking dumbasses that made it dont have a clue. anything above 100 Ohms is basically a shield for electronics. (your body has a resistance of about 400Ohms and conducts next to no electricity, so 4000 Ohms would not make a speaker, but rather a piece of lead.) |
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New member Username: ImryanisellspeaksPost Number: 5 Registered: Dec-06 | Uhhh Supranut How about this You are a p3nis This astounds me almost as much as it does you. Even my own mammoth intellect can't figure out how a man, without a p3nis to speak of on his entire mortal being, can still be (and i believe may be forever) such a great big giant pornstar p3nis of a person. An engineering degree??? You can probably count to a billion and know the correct procedure for the use of a micrometer sir. You may even know the fields (pardon the pun) in which simpsons rule is useful. But. Do not make the mistake of equating an understanding of numbers and rules in books to knowledge Supranut. Especially after having been had in such a manner. By the way Supranut. The 4000 ohm thing, it's called a typo. Let it go. ooops sorry I know that the whole "letting go" is a touchy subject so I'll do you a favour and let that one go. Happy new year. The one, the only MINTY |
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New member Username: NksnksPost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-07 | Hey guys, I just want to say thanks. (to the guys selling these products) And I want to let all of you buyers know that these products are far superior to what you could have bought for the same price... assuming you did not pay more than $200 or $300.... I'm one of the suckers who paid for the goods... like most of you... at the ATM/Sam's Club. But I tell you I am The CEO of my own technology business and have been a stereo enthusiast for several years... (ever since a young boy) Clearly, none of us recognized these funky brand names... ie. Theater research, DaVinci, Kirch, bla bla bla, etc. But we all took a chance and got what we paid for. I hope your products were at least somewhat useful. Furthermore, I am absolutely happy with the products I recieved! Although, I would have been furious if my sound system had enough power to run them at full potential and FRIED them! By the way... for all you guys selling this stuff, what the F' is wrong with you... I mean come on, your selling a quality product for less than all local competition, why not be honest and sell this stuff in a more legit manner... It's worth it. Word of mouth is a very powerful sells tacktic. I will be sure to let everyone I know, know about your sells scam and that the products are absolutely worth a couple hundred bucks. |
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Platinum Member Username: Project6Post Number: 12160 Registered: Dec-03 | Well, there you go. A nice endorsement from a self proclaimed stereo enthusiast and a CEO of a technology business. How can you go wrong? WOW! Great "sells tacktic"!  |
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New member Username: Suprarx7nutPost Number: 8 Registered: Dec-06 | Alright Minty, you've now called me a pen1s and tried to insult my intelligence. I dont know many grown men that resort to calling someone a pen1s. congrats. You're a f-cking tool man. Have a nice life selling your half-a5s speakers. Its a damn shame you cant make an honest buck. I'm sorry and I sincerely pity you. |
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New member Username: JimdaskalAnnapolis, MD Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-07 | The measurements by GR Research confirm what our listening tests found- these Kirsch and DiVinci speakers are the absolute pits - here is a copy of my E Bay guide: I've been involved in the audio industry for over 25 years, and have to say that these speakers have the worst components I've ever seen. As someone who has built and repaired speakers, and written published audio reviews well before the Internet came around, I am appalled at the chutzpah shown by manufacturers and sellers of this junk. The 'reviews' and 'guides' that speak positively of these things have to be posted by those who stand to profit from the sale of these inferior items. Take the Kirsch and DiVinci speakers, with thir glossy ads and websites claiming outrageous 'retail' prices - not that any reputable retailer would carry these dogs. Most recently peddlers of the DiVinci's have trumpeted an ad taken out by the company, and purchase of a booth at an electronics show as evidence that this is an established brand-when you have the kind of profit margins based upon $ 50 worth of components in a "$ 3600" package, I suppose you can afford a booth or an ad. Imagine if a peddler of fake Rolexes', or 'Rolex quality' watches posted a website claiming that their junk that cost maybe $ 50 to manufacture is worth thousands - that is basically the case we have here. I've had the opportunity to take apart a number of these speakers, and all I can say is if you read Wikipedia and other search results you obtain from Googling the term "White Van Speakers' or 'White Van Scam' the conclusion that the components are of 'exceptionally poor quality' is well founded. For example, as I write this, there are at least 3 pairs of the "K803 Prodigy" speakers being posted on E Bay for $ 1500 or more, yet superior drivers (the speaker drivers -woofers, tweeters, midranges and the like) can be had for $ 20 or less per driver. The internal electronics such as the crossovers are the worst I've ever seen in nearly 3 decades as a hobbyist. Even the glossy cabinets lack the internal bracing you will find on quality speakers. The drivers on the "$ 3000 pair" are pretty much the same as on another set of these towers sold under an earlier "White Van Scam" name that a friend bought for $ 59 in a local pawn shop. Just for fun, we compared these 'beasts' to a pair of Infinty SM-255's bought off of E Bay for $ 300, using both analogue and digital sources, receivers and high end separate electronics. A sound level meter was used to ensure that the listening occured at the same volume level. One of the girlfirends said it best : the Kirsch sounded like a clock radio compared to the Infinity's. Maybe it was unfair - the Infinity's weigh 77 pounds versus 28 for the Klipsch... er Kirsch - but then the Kirsch is a $ 3000 speaker, the Infinities were $ 1000 new ... the weight alone should tell you just what junk the White Van Speakers are. We've also performed listening tests comparing the "$ 2495"- oh please - Kirsch K3 'home theatre system to a vintage set of Infinity Qb speakers dating back to the 1980's, which you can buy for $ 150 or so; and to Logitech Z-5300 and Klipsch Pro Media 5.1 computer speakers. Experienced listeners suggested the best use of the Kirsch's was as a boat anchor, kids unanimously preferred the other sets. I also had the (dis) pleasure of listening to a set of the "$ 3600" DiVinci's often posted here - even the best electronics cannot make a silk purse out of these sow's ears. We compared the DiVinci 607 model to a Polk RM-6800 5.1 home theater set up that can be had for $ 400 - or $3200 less than theDiVinci's. It was no contest-- as my 12 year old put it 'where did all the instruments go' - there was no category- imaging, detail, tightness of bass- you name it- where the DiVinci's were remotely competitive. With profit margins that would make oil companies jealous, I can see where they could now buy ads in magazines - one E Bay posting claims they are an 'established high end speaker' - you would have to be high to consider these anything but the low level junk they are. Scam is not a strong enough term, and these have earned their place on rip-off report.com. If you pay less than $ 200 for any of these speakers, I don't think its a total rip off, but anything more than that and you've been had - anyone who writes that these things sound fine is either making money off of them, a scam victim seeking to pawn off his folly on someone else, or they need to have a root canal performed on their ears. FROM WIKIPEDIA , The Online Encyclopedia on White Van Speakers and White Van Scam.... The brand name of the speakers is often intentionally confusingly similar to a well regarded speaker manufacturer. For example, the excellent reputations of manufacturers such as Klipsch, Paradigm, Dahlquist, and Wharfedale are used to sell speakers with the respective brand names of Kirsch, Paradyme, Dahlton, and Grafdale. The speakers sold by the speakermen are of exceptionally poor quality, typically obtained for less than $50 from a local distributor. The speakers themselves have been reported as potentially damaging to any amplifier they are connected to. The risk of damage stems from an impedence curve that in some cases may drop below 2 ohms, which may overheat, short out, or permanently damage an amplifier not designed to handle such loads. From ECoustics.com - Kirsch/DiVinci/ Theater Research Thread : cheap speakers with the worst components any China man can find. My book shelf speakers sound much better than the fancy looking towers I bought. getting scammed is no excuse to do it to others |
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New member Username: JimdaskalAnnapolis, MD Post Number: 2 Registered: Jan-07 | The only thing I'd add is while some of the people who listened to the "K3" home theatre set up suggested using them as a boat anchor, this lightweight junk is not even suitable for that - I shoudl have mentioned that not only are the cabinets not braced- they are a resonance and distortion factory in their own right - I wonder if the importers also import fake Rolex and Omega watches ? |
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New member Username: Suprarx7nutPost Number: 9 Registered: Dec-06 | Its nice to hear a non-speakerman. You guys know you're selling total sh*t. TO ALL SPEAKERMEN!!!>>>...Get a life or end your own. (ok, dont kill yourself, but get a job) |
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New member Username: DebarePost Number: 7 Registered: Mar-06 | I'm obviously one of the lucky ones in Vancouver. Maybe consumer laws in Canada are tougher because when I tracked down Andrew, owner of Commonwealth Distributors, here there was no problem getting my $500 back. These guys run out of a nondescript warehouse in North Van. A whiteboard in the office listed at least 10 teams out there working the marks out there like me. The only way I found them was this eCoustics forum and the various local North Vancouver phone numbers that others kindly listed here: the newest number to call Andrew to get into contact with Common Wealth Distributors is 604-988-8233. Sorry we can't help out others who has been scammed outside of Coquitlam, New Westminster, Port Moody, Maple Ridge, Pitt Meadows, Burnaby, South Surrey, Abbotsford, Chilliwack, Mission, Langley, West Vancouver, White Rock City, Whistler, Lower Mainland, British Columbia (BC), Canada. Good luck all!!!! |
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New member Username: DtvperfectColumbus, Ga Usa Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-07 | there is a team working the Phenix City, AL / Columbus, GA area TODAY...1-16-2007 They hit me up and I live buy these two rules when buying items. rule #1: Never buy anything over $100.00 without planning on it. rule #2: never buy anything from an individual in a van, who approaches me with a "deal of a lifetime".... Some people are closers...some people get closed. |
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New member Username: BikingguyAllentown, Pa Us Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-07 | similar "Kirsch home theater" scam in Allentown PA-- Jan 2007. 2 young guys in white van, one named "Dom" I believe I did get their license number; also have a phone number which I called and they told me it was legit, so they must be in cahoots. any suggestions how to proceed? thanks for any help you can provide John in PA |
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New member Username: Tripledouble_1Virginia Beach, Va USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-07 | GUILTY. virginia beach, virginia. well i got the surround package for 200. yes, i feel like an idiot right now. i guess its not to bad though, i hooked the system up and i think its worth the 200. lesson learned. and if i see the 140 pound rat that got me, he will learn a lesson as well. |
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New member Username: Tanker3idVista Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-07 | after reading this I feal better i got took for 100.00 for the k3 5.1 system i was going to give him 200. but only could give 100 and he took it so i riped them off this time they sound good enough i just hook them up in the army recruiting office for us. but im supose to be a sales man and still got schamed.... but $100 for ok speakers SUckers ps 1 white guy in a white toyada truck said he pick them up for his boss at best buy and they acadintly gave him twice what he was suppost to get and was just getting rid of them befor he got to his boss. for spare chang. o well $100 good deal/ $250 or more bad deal |
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New member Username: Madhatter79Post Number: 1 Registered: Feb-07 | Okay, so 2 guys from Cali asked me to buy some speakers from them... Same story as everyone else. I'm horrible at saying no to a good deal, so why was this any different? I have read countless articles on this scam and I have mixed feelings about being ripped off or not. I bought 2 kirsch k702 tower loudspeakers. I brought them home and hooked them up right away to see if I REALLY got ripped off or not. Not only did they not blow up my receiver, they sounded twice as good as the current JBL speakers I have. I really was planning on just reselling them back for the same price (or less) to a friend of mine. I have bought plenty of crap that was a worse deal than this, so besides being depressed about getting "ripped off", I'm actually pretty happy that they at least work. If you just found out that you are the new owner of some "scam" speakers...don't worry, these things don't suck as much as everyone is saying. In fact, most the posts on here are about being pissed off that they got "ripped off" and don't say anything at all about the quality of the speakers. If you think they suck...THEN you got ripped off. If they are pretty much what you were thinking they were, then what's the problem? I'm trying to stay positive about this...really...I'm just pissed off someone worked me...the product is definitely usuable. |
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New member Username: SkypageOceanside, CA United States Post Number: 1 Registered: Feb-07 | Dixon, I got the same story as you, though different vehicle. Three guys with a gold SUV, and wound up dropping a little over 200 on the things. The story was that they had double the order that they were supposed to get, and that they had some idiot obss that had taken extras that they had tried to return before for himself. I'm going to try to sell them off to one of my friends, to at least get my money back. |
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New member Username: Picklez694Post Number: 1 Registered: Feb-07 | A heads up to anyone operating in one of these white van scams: In January, in Erie, PA, a man selling speakers in a very similar fashion (out of the back of a truck in a parking lot - private property) was shot in the face while on the "job." |
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New member Username: Tanker3idVista Post Number: 2 Registered: Jan-07 | funny thing i was driving around looking to meet new recruits and low and behold a white ford exporer with two guy stoped me and asked if i wanted to buy a home speaker system. i though dam twice in the same month in this area. this is bigger than i thought. but alas i have been got once befor and drove off they parked in the parking lot and sat in there vehicle waiting for a nother victom i thought off calling the police but then wasent really sure if this is against the law so o well they operate in cali oceanside, vista area here. |
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New member Username: Jenb22Post Number: 1 Registered: Feb-07 | Same thing happened to me a couple days ago except they hit me in my own apartment complex parking lot!! The jerk got me for 400 bucks, but I figured out they were a scam and tried to get my money back. The guy was an idiot fell for me calling from a different line and met up with me..I somehow got him to give me his verizon chocolate phone for collatoral and he gave me 164 of my 400 back said he needed to get the rest..he never showed. Im not giving up, Ive been out the past 2 days looking for these guys..anyone know how I can find them or where they have been hit in the north county area so i can keep looking? What they are doing is illegal...they need permits to sell outta their vehicles and they dont have them. You can reach me at my personal email jenberry10@yahoo.com |
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New member Username: Chinker2Post Number: 1 Registered: Feb-07 | do these speakers work some wut decent? i got scammed as well for 200 bucks and if they work i think ill just keep them |
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New member Username: Chinker2Post Number: 2 Registered: Feb-07 | mine are kirsch k602 btw |
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New member Username: Tanker3idVista Post Number: 3 Registered: Jan-07 | yea they work preaty good not bose or any thing but good |
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New member Username: HyperlitePost Number: 1 Registered: Feb-07 | My bro got scammed also in Raliegh NC today feb 19 2007. Same story white van with licence number North Carolina BF-5140 it was 3 guys needed "extra cash for the topless bar." Thought it was legit cause I called someone and they found it on EBAY. He got the k10 system for free.....but paid $400 for the magizine with the MSRPs. (The Abso!lute Sound aug 2006) The Better Business Buro(sp?) says they are doing business under the name IRSCH with a d rating. My step mom is curently calling the contact numbers in Chino Hills CA. They used an apartment complex and left the other tenents numbers as contact numbers. No one know anything about the Kirsch product line. (so the say) BTW they look ok might sound ok and might last if played at a decent volume. My name is Jon and I live near Charlotte, my # is 704.340.5225 if anyone wants to share info. My brother found this site. http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/InPerson/speaker_scams.htmManufacturer: Audio Wood Products 14430 Monte Vista Avenue Chino Hills, California Contact: Mike Amoroso Phone: (909) 606-1656 Alt. Phone: (909) 606-4057 |
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New member Username: ShanejordanSelect United States Post Number: 1 Registered: Feb-07 | Kinda a crazy question for this group, but im gonna ask it anyways. Yes I got scammed. Got home. No remote in the box. Anyways, im F#@$ed without the remote as I cant find the code for it anywheres. What I need is the remote code for a universal remote. Can anyone help me out. Ive searched all of google. |
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New member Username: ImryanisellspeaksPost Number: 6 Registered: Dec-06 | Hey guys MINTY here, just letting you know that "Englishman Myles" and myself just returned from a two week holiday up the eastern coast of Australia. One last hurrah before university. You will be pleased to hear that the "KIRSCH ME BABY ONE MORE TIME!!" tour netted profits of AU$3600 each. All of that with a three hour a day commitment. Not a bad holiday. By the way, if you're from Toronto and have a tall blonde girlfriend called Kate on holidays in Australia (The gold coast specifically). You may want to reconsider her chaste nature. FIRE IN THE HOLE!!!! MINTY OUT!!!!! |
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New member Username: EarthyartistPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-07 | Apparently I should own a TV. I may have learned about this a long time ago... I was appraoched by the boys from Common Wealth Distributors in North Vancouver the other morning. Damn them for catching me before my morning coffee woke up my brain. LOL Anyways, thanks to the contact info in this thread (and others), I was able to locate their office to return my "hi-fi" purchase. Instead of making acusations of being scammed,I simply said I was impulsive and this wasnt the best time in my life for such expendatures. Andrew was very gracious about returning my money. While he went to the back he turned on the speakers to show me what I was missing (not much). I humoured him on the quality (as if I didnt know quality), declined the DVD presentation and politely moved along on my merry way. I think he probably makes enough from people who dont know where to find him, or those who feel too sheepish to chase. He is smart enough to know having to ocassionally buck-up is best for the continuation of his business. |
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New member Username: PsyckoriousPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-07 | So I guess I really should have known when they approached me outside my bank in their White 05 Dodge Durango License Plate number WEF9N Florida plates, Mr Adam Micheal Danville (According to his official california state license.) I wasn't however smart enough at the time to think to write down his Driver's license number. Shoulda-woulda-coulda. Atleast i got that far, I saw his driver's license. I got the Kirsch K3 system, same story the boss yadda yadda yadda sent them to pick up the system they got extras all that bullshit. I saw the fake magazine too... I guess they really are that thought out. I've gone as far though as to look them up on the Better Business Bureau to find out all that they have on them was an address and when i googled the address on a satellite map this is what i got: http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&tab=wl&q= So they run out of a strip mall? No Corporate offices? Anyways I'd like to thank user AVX for the light hearted comment and ya know it's because i read his particular comment that at this point i can laugh about my 300 dollars and move on... i mean really what can I do? I'll try and sell it for at least what i paid for it or maybe I can find something back from the better business bureau they might investigate them further. Guy please make complaints to the better business bureau there are so many of you with different accounts of how this is working. The question at hand is How exactly are these companies distributing their products legitimately? The bureau must know that stuff about companies and if this is the way those companies make their money and not through retail distributors then their means of making profit with out a way to prove that they give sollicitors licenses to every one of their sales persons is illegal right? Anyways for what it's worth at least make a complaint sooner or later the bureau will get tired of hearing us b*tch and will do something, anything. But that's my rant. thanks for reading Syke |
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Platinum Member Username: Project6Post Number: 13391 Registered: Dec-03 | So many people... |
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New member Username: Studley311Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-07 | vero beach, fl well i guess i got scammed. i havent hook up my new kirsch k3 5.1 home cinema to see how it sounds. well its the same story i have been seeing on this webpage. 2 white guy nice and ready to make an quick sell. 2499.00 got it for 500.00. looks and sounds like a good deal. i dont know but if its not, i will find them and is @$$ kicking time with my brother inlaw who just so happens to be a cop in vero. so when im done he will take them in. if anyone has any info on these to guys please let me know. about 6'2'' 200lbs blond hair blue eyes says hes from boca. studley311@aol.com |
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New member Username: Tanker3idVista Post Number: 4 Registered: Jan-07 | well in two weeks i was approced 3 more times buy this scam, it seems im located at their HQ or somthing. I bet thay are college kids trying to make the quick buck and... cal state san marcos is right buy me. so you can see what they are getting tought about ethics in colledge. |
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New member Username: Numba1shizPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-07 | my buddy just got asked by these guys and called me to check the price and i found this site. they are now scamming the seattle area just a heads up |
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New member Username: Matt_hPost Number: 2 Registered: May-07 | same story 2 guys in a new 4runner in a big hurry had two k3 in the back. In Edmonds, Wa witch is approx 15min north of seattle, right in front of scotts restaurant. i guess they have been there a few times selling the k3's from what a employee at scotts was telling me. They got me and a buddy for 250$ each. Havent hooked them up yet so i guess i cant complain yet. just letting everyone know. hope this helps. |
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New member Username: TeacherAustin, Texas USA Post Number: 1 Registered: May-07 | Austin scam NOW. Red terrific pickup, Tx licence 58YMT4. HEB Hancock parking lot. K3s for $300. Hope they at least play a little... |
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New member Username: DougcoquitlamPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-07 | Ok, I am sad to say I have paid my initiation into the "club"--I can't believe I was so easily taken in even when I knew that it was "too good to be true." Two guys in a maroon Dodge van heading from Coquitlam to Maple Ridge. Gave the North Van number as well. Looked the part (construction types) and I think it was the magazine that got me! Lesson learned! |
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New member Username: EarthyartistPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-07 | Contact Andrew Radford at the numbers above in Danny Miller's post. You will get your money back no problem. I went in and said "it wasnt the best time in my life to make such an expendature" and left it at that. He turned on the speakers while he went to get the money. They are NOT worth whatever you paid. |
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New member Username: ImryanisellspeaksPost Number: 7 Registered: Dec-06 | Yeah and Tree is NOT the biggest tool in Vancouver. Close, but NOT the biggest. |
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Bronze Member Username: HuronPost Number: 95 Registered: Mar-07 | I grew up near chicago, I use to get stopped by guys in vans an cars selling shiit all the time, at least ones a week, I never bought anything, know matter how good they were, I just told them I was broke, but I do take donations, then they would laugh and leave me alone, I worked for a car wash for a wile back then, all these guy use to stop at car washes |
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Bronze Member Username: HuronPost Number: 96 Registered: Mar-07 | at least it seemed like once a week, car audio home audio, its never worth it |
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New member Username: Inphilly2Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 1 Registered: Jun-07 | Philadelphia, PA I got burned today. Two white males in their late 20's in a white Ford van. I was on City Ave, in Philly. They sold me Kirsch Loud Speakers Prodigy 803. They were extremely convincing. The magazine ad was key. They said they installed systems for their company. They did the whole strip club routine, showed packing slip, said they needed to be back at work soon, followed me to the bank, and even did the f***ing high-five. One guy was tall (about 6ft), skinny, short blond hair, had a tattoo on his leg, wore a heavy chain link necklace, and called himself Ryan. The other guy was a little shorter, heavier, darker hair, and had a chin strap facial hair. I managed to memorize their license plate YTV2163 I am currently working on getting my money refunded with in the three day period. I have the contact information from previous posts and will update on how I made out. My email is CapoCrimini737@yahoo.com |
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New member Username: Inphilly2Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 2 Registered: Jun-07 | I got a few phone numbers from previous posts in the Philadelphia area. I tried calling the Avalon Distributers at 215-357-4752 no one answered so I left a message. I tried the T&M Distributers at 215-949-8801 and the operator said the number was changed to a new number, so I called the new number and an operator said the number was changed to a new number, so I called that number and it just kept ringing and no one ever answered and no answering machine kicked in. I even called John J Mehaffey Jr.'s cell phone which went to a automated voice mail that didn't specify who's voice mail it was. If anyone has had success in getting a refund in the Philadelphia area and has any advice please let me know by posting or email (CapoCrimini737@yahoo.com) |
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New member Username: JimdaskalAnnapolis, MD Post Number: 3 Registered: Jan-07 | You have a strong fraud case if you can track down the owner of the car via the license plate - go to AG Corbetts site and report the fraud http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/theoffice.aspx?id=71 - I wrote a review of these pieces of garbage on EBay http://reviews.ebay.com/Kirsch-Genesis-Media-Labs-DiVinci-amp-White-Van-Speakers _W0QQugidZ10000000002467097 |
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New member Username: Ydoow1Kelowna, B.c. Canada Post Number: 1 Registered: Jun-07 | was scammed in kelowna b.c. canada by little english !@#$!#$ anyways any CURRENT help to get money back appreciated. it was a green van by the way!! email searay1980@hotmail.com thanks in advance |
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New member Username: TgonzalesPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-07 | Two guys in a suv approached me at a gas station on chapman ave and 55 freeway in Orange, ca. Nick daiello is his name I have his ca drivers lic# and cell # . I was showed a magazine for april 2007 with the msrp price . I purchased (2) kirsch k3 (2) kirsch k10 (1) kirsch k2030 and a plalerma for a grand total of 1060.00 cash.I called Nick and left a message after reading the reviews of others who have purchased this product. I need to to know if there is anyway I could get my money back................please help. victim of a stupid scam that I should have known better. buyers beware..................if you can call a friend or a family member to do some research before you buy an item from the trunk of a car please do it |
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New member Username: MatthbzPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-07 | I was scammed today by the same guy that got Jim in Coasta Mesa. I was at Home depot in Tustin. This guy was smooth I give him props on his lieing abilities I fell for his bullshit and the fake ad. Said his name was Mike Rogers and gave me his phone # (928)542-2662. Paid 400 for a kisch k3. He had the nerve to tell me if I ever see him around to buy him a beer or take him to TT bar for the good deal he gave me, HA. |
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New member Username: DebarePost Number: 8 Registered: Mar-06 | I have no idea why, but the lines about "throwing in an extra $20 for beer," or "taking us out for beers sometime" seem to be an integral part of the scam. Any ideas? I'm stumped about the purpose of that part of the ruse, but they used it on me and obviously many others. It actually pissed me off more afterwards that they tried to scam me for another $20, so it's use seems ultimately counter-productive. |
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New member Username: WhitevanspeakerscamPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-07 | Divinci Speakers 20.00 ? White Van Speakers Scam If you paid more you bought them out of the back of a van or suv. Do search for "white van speaker" You'll find some good reviews of this junk ! If you get approach by people trying to sell you this stuff , take some pictures of them , get a plate # , and call your local police. We found this guy Rob "Sully" been selling this junk all over the country for many years. Get your money back Call Robert M Sullivan Date of Birth 06-03-68 Phone 303-618-0975 Also check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_speakers Divinci Speakers $20.00Kirsch,Genesis Media Labs, DiVinci & White Van Speakers by: jimdaskal19( 96) 126 out of 134 people found this guide helpful. Guide viewed: 11402 times Tags: Kirsch | Theatre reserach | DiVinci Speakers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've been involved in the audio industry for over 25 years, and have to say that these speakers have the worst components I've ever seen. As someone who has built and repaired speakers, and written published audio reviews well before the Internet came around, I am appalled at the chutzpah shown by manufacturers and sellers of this junk. The 'reviews' and 'guides' that speak positively of these things have undoubtedly been posted by those who stand to profit from the sale of these inferior items. Take the Kirsch, Theatre Research, Genesis Media Labs (Genesis PHYSICS was a good brand in the 1980's) and DiVinci speakers, with their glossy ads and websites full of meaningless techno-babble and claims of outrageous 'retail' prices - not that any reputable retailer would carry these dogs. There are good reasons why they are mostly sold out of the back of white vans, and here, where comparison to good equipment is impossible. Most recently peddlers of the Genesis Media Lab and DiVinci's have trumpeted an ad taken out by the company, and purchase of a booth at an electronics show as evidence that this is an established brand-when you have the kind of profit margins based upon $ 50 worth of components in a "$ 3600" package, I suppose you can afford a booth or an ad. Imagine if a peddler of fake Rolexes', or 'Rolex quality' watches posted a website claiming that their junk that cost maybe $ 50 to manufacture is worth thousands - that is basically the case we have here. I've had the opportunity to take apart a number of these speakers, and all I can say is if you read Wikipedia and other search results you obtain from Googling the term "White Van Speakers' or 'White Van Scam' the conclusion that the components are of 'exceptionally poor quality' is well founded. For example, as I write this, there are at least 3 pairs of the "K803 Prodigy" speakers being posted on E Bay for $ 1500 or more, yet superior drivers (the speaker drivers -woofers, tweeters, midranges and the like) can be had for $ 15 or less per driver. The internal electronics such as the crossovers, are by far, the absolute worst I've ever seen in nearly 3 decades as a hobbyist. The DiVinci hucksters have the nerve to advertise their 'high energy crossover', which is a $2 piece of junk - a good crossover is complex, not inexpensive, and is critical to sound quality. Even the glossy cabinets are made of cheap, lightweight wood, whose resonances distort the already awful sound, and lack the internal bracing you will find on quality speakers. The drivers on the Kirsch and DiVinci "$ 3000 pair" (K803- DiVinci 1740-Dahlton- same speaker) are pretty much the same as on another set of these towers sold under an earlier "White Van Scam" name that a friend bought for $ 59 in a local pawn shop- one set of DiVinci's' is listed for $ 2500 buy it now - that is on line piracy. Just for fun, we compared these Kirsch 803 beasts' to a pair of Infinty SM-255's bought off of E Bay for $ 300, using both analogue and digital sources, receivers and high end separate electronics. A sound level meter was used to ensure that the listening occured at the same volume level. One of the girlfriends said it best : the Kirsch sounded like a clock radio compared to the Infinity's and one thought that a clock radio might sound better. Technical measurements confirmed what our ears told us - a ragged response curve that is the worst I've ever seen, bar none. Maybe it was unfair - the Infinity's weigh 77 pounds versus 28 for the Klipsch... er Kirsch - but then the Kirsch is a $ 3000 speaker, the Infinities were $ 1000 new ... the weight alone should tell you just what junk the White Van Speakers are. We also compared the Kirsch with a vintage set of Klipsch KG-3.5's which you can get for around $ 200-250 - needless to say they blew the K-803 Prodigy away. We've also performed listening tests comparing the "$ 2495"- oh please - Kirsch K3 home theatre system to a vintage set of Infinity Qb speakers dating back to the 1980's, which you can buy for $ 150 or so; a Samsung Home Theatre in a box and to Logitech Z-5300 and Klipsch Pro Media 5.1 computer speakers, hooked to a 5.1 receiver via the headphone jack ( a decent option for a small room). Experienced listeners suggested the best use of the Kirsch's was as a boat anchor or firewood, kids unanimously preferred the other sets and as one eloquently put it - ' the fancy ones stink like poo.' You would be much better off with a used set from Energy, Polk, or another quality speaker company. I also had the (dis) pleasure of listening to a set of the "$ 3600" DiVinci's often posted here - even the best electronics cannot make a silk purse out of these sow's ears. We compared the DiVinci 607 model to a Polk RM-6800 5.1 home theater set up that can be had for $ 400 or less- $3200 less than theDiVinci's so called retail value. It was no contest-- as my 12 year old put it 'where did all the instruments go' - there was no category- NONE- imaging, detail, tightness of bass- you name it- where the DiVinci's were remotely competitive. Not only are the speakers unspeakably bad, the receiver/amp included with the DiVinci, Theatre Research, Digital Research and other "White Van Brands' lacks even basic AV functions -as well as measuring and sounding horribly - try watching "Master and Commander" with one of these pieces of 'bleep'- a used Denon, Yamaha or Onkyo at any price is light years superior. With profit margins that would make oil companies jealous, I can see where they could now buy ads in magazines - one E Bay posting claims they are an 'established high end speaker' - you would have to be high to consider these anything but the low level junk they are. Scam is not a strong enough term, and these have earned their place on rip-off report.com. If you pay less than $ 200 for any of these speakers, I don't think its a total rip off, (not that you cannot do much better for the money- see Part 2) - but anything more than that and you've been had - anyone who writes that these things sound fine is either making money off of them, a scam victim seeking to pawn off his folly on someone else, or they need to have a root canal performed on their ears. FROM WIKIPEDIA , The Online Encyclopedia on White Van Speakers and White Van Scam.... The brand name of the speakers is often intentionally confusingly similar to a well regarded speaker manufacturer. For example, the excellent reputations of manufacturers such as Klipsch, Paradigm, Dahlquist, and Wharfedale are used to sell speakers with the respective brand names of Kirsch, Paradyme, Dahlton, and Grafdale. The speakers sold by the speakermen are of exceptionally poor quality, typically obtained for less than $50 from a local distributor. The speakers themselves have been reported as potentially damaging to any amplifier they are connected to. The risk of damage stems from an impedence curve that in some cases may drop below 2 ohms, which may overheat, short out, or permanently damage an amplifier not designed to handle such loads. From ECoustics.com - Kirsch/DiVinci/ Theater Research Thread : cheap speakers with the worst components any China man can find. My book shelf speakers sound much better than the fancy looking towers I bought. getting scammed is no excuse to do it to others FOOTNOTE: The latest White Van Scam brand is Genesis Media Labs- just took a look at 2 sets bought from a E Bay power seller who should be ashamed of themselves. The buyers thought they got a good deal and even left positive feedback for the seller. We had them listen to a Yamaha home theatre in the box bought at ... Marshalls !!! ....for less than for 1/2 ($ 250) of the price the victims paid on EBay ($ 539) for the Genesis - once again, no contest, and some very unhappy Genesis owners- too bad feedback cannot be modified. I took a couple of measurements which confirmed that regardless of the name- Genesis, DiVinci, Kirsch, Dahlton, Theatre Logic, Theatre Research, Ashton, Digital Logic, Digital Audio, Digital Dogg, Digital Research et. al - this stuff is not worthy of the term hi fidelity. The problem with the Genesis name is that there was a very good American made speaker brand of that name in the mid 80's, that went of business- the White Van scammers change brands often. New report: http://www.wbko.com/news/headlines/6074001.html If you would like to see what hobbyists think of this stuff see the Dollars and Sense discussion at audiokarma.org - we get a laugh out of reading the ad copy, but getting scammed is no joke. FOOTNOTE 2: I visted recently with an old friend, a leading British audio writer, who upon seeing the E Bay ads and the Divinci website first thought it was someones' idea of a joke -- his take in typical British understated fashion - " The claim that this logo was on half the speakers in Britian is rubbish, the products are so poor that they do not even rise to that level (rubbish), and the purveyors are simply scoundrels." Guide ID: 10000000002467097Guide created: 12/06/06 (updated 06/23/07) More guides written by: jimdaskal19( 96) The Di Vinci AV 2098 Receiver , and the White Van Scam Taylor Made R7 Super Quad TP - Avoiding Super Fraud DiVinci, Kirsch, Genesis Media Labs-Part 2- What to Buy Related tags: Kirsch | Digital Research | Taylor Made | Theatre reserach | knock offs | DiVinci AV 2098 | R7 | Value Speakers | fraud | DiVinci | TP | Home Theatre Receivers | DiVinci Speakers Consumer Electronics > Home Audio > Speakers & Subwoofers > Speaker Systems Books > Nonfiction Books Consumer Electronics > DVD & Home Theater > Home Theater Systems Robert M Sullivan White Van Speaker Scammer 06-03-68 303-618-0975 |
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New member Username: WhitevanspeakerscamPost Number: 2 Registered: Jun-07 | If you are approached by these scammers , take some pictures , get a plate number , call your local police and your local news. White Van Speakers brands sold out of pick-ups , vans , suvs, on the streets,or parking lots of gas stations, banks, malls , etc include : Audiofile Acoustic Monitor Acoustic Response, Acoustic Image, Acoustic Lab Technology Denmark Dogg Digital, Digital Dogg Audio Dahlton Digital Research DiVinci Dynalab Epiphany Genesis Media Labs Grafdale Digital Pro Audio, Pro Audio, Digital Audio, Digital Audio Professional Speaker Systems, Digital Audio Skyline Digital Research Epiphany Audio Kirsch Matrix Audio Concepts Millennium Theater Systems (MTS) Omni Audio Protecsound Pro Dynamics Paradyme PSD Theater Research |
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New member Username: MissxangeliquePhiladelphia, PA Post Number: 1 Registered: Aug-07 | Well my boyfriend got scammed today in the King of Prussia/Philadelphia area for the Kirsch speakers. He got the K10s and got them for $500 from two white guys in a white van - same story about how the guy was stoned and gave them one too many. They had the invoice and magazine too. Well he hooked them up and I must say - They work great I have bose speakers at home and I must say they sound close... not to mention my boyfriend loves the light show it puts on for him! haha Oh well what are ya gonna do?!) |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 12 Registered: Aug-07 | People, I am sorry to say this still happens today. Having been in this industry for over 30 years, I have little respect for this scam. Yes the speakers work. And for two hundred retail they are what they are. Fraud is Fraud, simple. Misrepretation of a material fact. They way you can soak these guys is get a receipt and plate number. If they don't, run from the deal. Db |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 1756 Registered: Feb-04 | Angelique, are those Kirsch speakers horn loaded?  |
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New member Username: MissxangeliquePhiladelphia, PA Post Number: 2 Registered: Aug-07 | horn loaded?! What in the world does that mean!? hahaha if you tell me how to find out I'll look for you |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 18 Registered: Aug-07 | Angelique, The actual speaker in in the speaker cabinet is called a driver, woffers,tweeters, midranges etc. Horn loading is one of the types of these drivers. sounds like your boy friend is horn loaded, lucky guy! your friend, Db |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 1757 Registered: Feb-04 | My little 'joke' was about the intentional similarity between the "Kirsch" name and that of the venerable speaker maker "Klipsch." For many years, Klipsch has been known for their horn loaded speaker designs where a radiating horn is placed in front of individual speaker drivers. In their modern designs, Klipsch uses horns on the tweeters only. Here is the real deal: https://www.klipsch.com/products/details/rf-62-home-theater-system.aspx |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 20 Registered: Aug-07 | John, I get it! Funny too! your friend db |
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New member Username: MissxangeliquePhiladelphia, PA Post Number: 3 Registered: Aug-07 | ::blank stare:: hahahaha yea that still is going way over my head - stop picking on the young girl who knows nothing about electronics!!} |
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Bronze Member Username: Db_audiofileLa habra, Ca Usa Post Number: 25 Registered: Aug-07 | use the force my young patawon learner |
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New member Username: MatthbzPost Number: 2 Registered: Jul-07 | Hey guys the guy that scammed me for some speakers actually gave me his real cell number is there anything I can do with it other than crank call him? |
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New member Username: Tanker3idVista Post Number: 5 Registered: Jan-07 | give it to all the recruiting stations in the area and tell them their interested in joining |
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New member Username: ColoboysPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-07 | So me and my roomate got scammed today outside of bestbuy in the city of brea in CA. The same guy, Mike Rogers, He gave us his phone #(928)542-2662, showed us the magazine dated April 07 and told us the same bullshit story about working for a contractor,so We paid $400 for the K3. Also at the end he had the nerve to ask us for a dime bag of weed because he was giving us such a great deal! I don't know about you guys but I feel like shoving this speaker's up mike's a**. This is the roomate who went half on the K3, we should of picked this up when we got the whole story of about him being in a hurry to sell the speakers that day, yet his magazine dated back april 2007. People out there, look for the little signs. The four speakers have a sticker that reads "front speaker" |
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New member Username: MatthbzPost Number: 3 Registered: Jul-07 | "Mike Rogers" gave me the same cell number. He didn't answer it for a while but I tried it a couple of days ago and he answered. He asked who I was,I avoided the question and pretended to want more speakers. He said that was a one time thing and hung up. I want to know how he gets these things. |
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New member Username: RobinssidekickUnited States Post Number: 1 Registered: Aug-07 | Haha... I got got for a Kirsch K3 today. Paid $240 to two guys in Phoenix in a Black 07 Expedition. They even told me they usually have the white van, but had to use their boss's truck today. I actually talked them down to 200 but gave them an extra 40 bux "for a storage unit to stash them so their boss doesn't see them". Same story... order got doubled up. They had extra. Their boss sells the extras, so they'd rather sell them themselves. Then buddy had the nerve to ask me for some xtra money for beers. Dickweed. I wanted to look up this Kirsch brand on my Treo in front of them, but I told the guys I was broke lol. Broke and Treo isn't a common combination. What's even funnier is: I told them I wouldn't sell them and that's the first thing I came home to do, but ended up here on this site. I can do nothing but laugh at myself for this one. This is a funny story to me. I guess I'll just keep them and play them. |
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New member Username: TroylilPost Number: 1 Registered: Feb-08 | Just moved from Tex to La And moved in my new house and while I was unpacking 2 guys in a white ford explorer with Tex plats pulls up and asked me if I was looking for a new sound system for my home I said not really but what's up? He then showed me the kirsch k3 told me there worth 2.3k and showed me the little book and told me some stories about how they went to install it and the people did not want the system and said they would sell to be for half the 2.3k I told them no way I told them I would give them 100$ for them. Then i get a call from my brother which is a cop here in Lafayette,la asking me how the new house was.. then I told him what these 2 guys where trying to sell me he told me not to buy from them and there is a big scam going around then told me to stall them he was on his way over this is where it gets good. so after talking with the 2 guys for about 10 more mins asking them question about installing the system on to my tv etc.. my brother shows up in his cop car the 2 guys freak out there eye's popped out there head but the only thing my brother could do is get there info and call in about there explore come to find out the explore was stolen!! they went to jail. Found out they scammed 5 people in the area. Sorry to everyone that got scammed for a POS sound system |
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New member Username: Garlander44Post Number: 1 Registered: Feb-08 | hi my name is Brian i am in the Bellevue, Washington area right next to Seattle. Bellevue is $money$ city where i probably dont belong. but same thing happend over here to me. 2 guys on white one mexican mid 20s approched me at a gas station saying the "got some killer sound systems for dirt cheap need to get rid of fast... now im not going to lie i thought they might be stolen but oh well. ne ways the white guy offered me 700 i talked him down to 200. sold!!! im happy but until i get home i see this website! F*cK me! im pissed at this point. if you are in washington in the greater Seattle area or mabey even tacoma, it was 2 guys in a silver/grey 2007 chrysler pacifica mid to high 20s mabey low 30s. thin built the white one was the only one that talked. good luck to everyone |
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New member Username: TerrasaurPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-08 | Hi my names James From the guildford fleetwood area Surrey B.C Guys approached me in a cream colored van might have been a ford or chevy One was a red head thin in about his 20s short hair. The other Black hat had like a new york accent tanned. Just got scammed today Shelled out 600 for devinci speakers... I'm such an Idiot... I resisted but the guy some how talked me into buying them... If anyone Has any information to help me out it would be great |
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Diamond Member Username: Project6Post Number: 15640 Registered: Dec-03 | You didn't bother getting a receipt? Why not? |
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New member Username: TerrasaurPost Number: 2 Registered: Apr-08 | They just gave me the box and drove off I feel so bad |
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Diamond Member Username: Project6Post Number: 15641 Registered: Dec-03 | They got you good didn't they? What was their story? |
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New member Username: TerrasaurPost Number: 3 Registered: Apr-08 | Order went bad wanted to get rid of them told me I could sell them on craigs list Kinda got pissed at me for making him open the box and show me what they look like because I was refusing to buy. Yeah When I got home and looked this up I was really shaken up.I should have known just to walk away guys like double parked to block me from going anywhere.Had a magazine showed me that it somehow made it all good and some sort of licence that I looked at for a few secounds. |
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Bronze Member Username: LevelzeroPost Number: 11 Registered: Aug-07 | Has anyone reported these people to the authorities? At least the phone numbers? Does it matter since you're admitting to buying something "hot"? lol |
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Bronze Member Username: RainnaunsequePost Number: 16 Registered: Dec-08 | no need |
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