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New member Username: BulletbillToronto, ON Canada Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-05 | I would like to know the proper way of calibrating the sound levels on a 7.1 speaker-array system. I have a Yamaha RX2500, and initially used the internal test tones to adjust the sound levels with the Radio Shack sound level meter. However, when using DVE's 6.1 test tones, i noticed that the "rear center" output was set way too high(from the original internal test tones). I think the reason being, the internal test tones send a discrete test tone signal to every channel including the "back surround left" and "back surround right". Since DVE only has 1 back surround channel test tone (making the back surround left + back surround right = 1 mono output), it seems that the internal test tone is too loud. Can anyone clarify, which or what is the right way to calibrate the proper sound levels in a 7.1 speaker system. Keep in mind, the 7.1 speaker setup will be used for Dolby Digital EX , DTS-ES (matrix/discrete) and Dolby Pro-Logic IIx. Thanks, Bill |
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Bronze Member Username: DmwileyPost Number: 78 Registered: Feb-05 | Bill, the Radio Shack (analog) sound meter is an excellent tool and you have the right idea. Make certain you calibrate the levels from your listening position. This probably means that the levels will be set at different volumes because of the varying speaker distances. |
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Milpool Unregistered guest | I find it most helpful to calibrate a 7.1 system starting with the back surrounds, then move forward. Make sure you have the main volume control set at a listening level just below what you feel is a loud setting. This ensures that dynamic events don't exceed your equipments limitations; and also that you get a full soundstage, even at normal listening levels. |
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Jerrad Unregistered guest | is there a way where a can download and burn a 7.1 surround sound test and put it in to my dvd player at home? |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 641 Registered: Jan-05 | Bill, I use a totally different approach. My suggestion is to use your 'meter' for fun purposes only. Adjust it to where you're happy, then confirm the results 'for fun' with the meter. The whole Idea is setting it to where your ears like it, not what a meter dictates(in spite of your ears). I think the meter is a fun toy, but irrelevent because channel levels differ for almost every show. For example last night, while watching 'American Idol', I set it up for just that show. Then when "house" comes on next, I changed it again, and so on and so on. After that, I put in Spiderman2 and changed it again. Usually, I'm either turning my center channel up or down to get the right 'blend' accross the front moreso than adjusting surrounds and backs, but I change something for nearly every program. I noticed that in some movies the surround and back effects can differ drastically. For example, while watching spiderman2, they were a little too loud so I turned them down slightly. With another movie, I might do the opposite. For me, the meter is irrelevent because each DVD or TV source is unique, and each needs to be adjusted accordingly regardless of a 'generic test tone'. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 180 Registered: Mar-05 | I thought I was the only one who did that with the channels so analy(spelling?) I have the level button on every page of my remote lol |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 642 Registered: Jan-05 | You arent alone. To me, it's absolutely necessary. I can have the perfect 'blend' on fox, and then switch to a different network/program, and detect being out of balance. At least for my ears, I hear it........ |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 181 Registered: Mar-05 | I love fox's sound but i wish their picture was as good as hdnet or cbs b/c I absolutely love 24 |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 314 Registered: Feb-04 | Bill, The difference between 6.1 and 7.1 is that there are two speakers in the back (7.1) vs. one speaker in the back (6.1). The back surround signal is mono either way. If you have two speakers, instead of one, then the back channel test tone will obviously be louder on the SPL meter. The specific speakers and the room will also be a factor on the meter's readout. |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 315 Registered: Feb-04 | But, I must agree with Paul in general--that is, your ears must be your guide and it is certainly no crime to deviate from the settings derived from any setup disc test. |
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Bronze Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 35 Registered: May-05 | The back two speakers loud due too two loudspeakers, yes true but get an RTA real time analyzer, there are affordable ones on the market, go to a PA store and see what they have to offer. With an RTA you will get better results along with the SPL sound pressure level meter, I Kidd you not. There are professional versions and basic ones that come on EQ like the "Technics" SH-8055 and the SH-8066 the SH-8066 as an auto set up when the microphone is connected to the unit and pressing the auto EQ it takes about one minute, I have many EQ's mostly "Technics" have a look on the Ebay, consumer electronics, and PA as well. As for EQ I do it manually and can take hours to nail it all down, and the results are better than the local cinema in Bournemouth, with poor EQ in there auditoriums, to dame toppey! And sub bass! What sub bass sounds like "Al Jolson's?" Vitaphone than Dolby digital, So getting the cookie at the end of it is what its all about, it takes a whole lot of techniques, and the front loudspeakers have to be the same that is left centre and right the same make and model, that way sound is going to be of top performance, first time and every time, those centre channel speakers are about as good for duck hunting, and get some good bookshelf loudspeakers, two-way of three-way design, and all bi-wire able ones. If you can get hold of a test calibration disc like the dts version though I'm not sure if it is still available or a Dolby digital calibration disc |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 977 Registered: Jan-05 | bi-wiring speakers?.......oh geesh, now you've done it and opened another entirely different can of worms. |
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Bronze Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 37 Registered: May-05 | Oh yer, Isn't it fun the cinema and the home cinema, hay instead of beating around the bush, let's throw Bill, a bone there's a whole lot of tricks that are used in the cinema industry that can be applied to the home cinema, don't just ignore it just because we like to think home cinema is a whole better. Home cinema can be dame right naff in the sound department. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3805 Registered: May-04 | Most of the Pixar DVD's have THX set up for audio and video included. Other films released as THX DVD's also include these as features, just check the "special features" on the back of the DVD box. These are only for 5.1 since there is nothing more than that as far as the theatrical mix down is concerned. I've not seen a disc with test tones specifically for Dolby Digital EX or DTS ES. Since these are matrixed channels from the rear surrounds, the processing should take the level set from the overall level of the 5.1 rear speaker set up. The basic THX tests are about as good as most people will require for setting up anything other than a very, very dedicated HT system. For more accuracy, "A Video Standard" has been the reference for set up since back in the prehistoric days of LaserDisc. It has been revised and is now known as "Video Essentials"; it is available on DVD over the internet or at some better shops. It is the best resource for everything concerning HT and will allow more precise calibration than any other commercially available disc that I've seen. It even includes screens that go beyond the average stuff for the consumer market and allow getting further into the menu on a well made TV. (There are screens that you cannot access unless you have the specific codes from the manufacturer which allow a "trained professional" the ability to adjust the system. These are employed by service professionals and the ISF tecnicians.) You can't do better than this disc for getting the most out of your system unless you pay an ISF professional to do the job onsite. http://www.videoessentials.com/products_history.php http://www.imagingscience.com/krellpressrel.htm http://www.home-cinema-design.com/avframe.htm Overall, I have found SPL meters to be a large waste of money for the average joe watching TV and DVD's. Spend the money for some music or videos instead. Set the levels by ear to the point where they sound good to you and then adjust them when they don't sound good until they do sound good. There aren't enough standards in the broadcast systems and unless you are using a THX DVD in a full THX system you will not have any assurance the levels are apropriate for what you have set with a meter or without. The system should sound good; that should be the most important thing you strive for. The problem comes when you have speakers that are not completely timbre matched in the room from fronts to center to rears. The average room presents enough variations to the sound of the same speaker placed in difefrent locations that a "matched" set of HT speakers may not sound very much alike when placed in a typical HT/living room. Quite a few people have difficulty hearing the same note as equal in volume when the timbral quality of the test tone changes from speaker to speaker to speaker. If this becomes a problem, then you should consider borrowing a meter or employing someone to do the job correctly and then mark where the levels are set so you can return to that position if needed. Unless the position of the speakers or the listening position changes, those reference level sets don't require recalibration. Once they are set, they will remain the reference levels. So why spend the money for something you'll only use once? But most remotes I see have the ability to adjust the levels on the fly; use those controls to get the sound you prefer as you switch between sources and programs. Don't get too wrapped up in the B.S. of this stuff. It's only TV. |
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Bronze Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 38 Registered: May-05 | Yes the test calibration the THX opitmode is ok but the pink noise is not full spectrum and seeing that the pink noise on them is only as by a means of basic. As for setting it up by ear, right sure maybe back in the prehistoric days of the Vitaphone not today only TV my foot it is. Maybe you have had little experience using one, and what about RTA real time analyzers I suppose we throw them out the widow. But hay it's only a movie.... |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3812 Registered: May-04 | You do get off on that Vitaphone line, don't you, Andy? |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 336 Registered: Feb-04 | Bill, If after all this you still feel the need to tweak (and I feel your pain), there is a test disc which supports Dolby Digital/DTS 5.1 and 6.1-channel systems. http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=1&article_id=200&page_nu mber=1&preview= What the heck, you've already "wasted" your money on Shack's SPL meter, so why not. I've had more fun playing with my SPL that half the movies I've rented/bought this last year. But hey it's only stereo times three.... |
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Bronze Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 47 Registered: May-05 | Jan, hi there. What can I say I used to be a projectionist and knowing a thing or to about the past and present helps, sorry about that hope it's not been insulting? And I prefer the name, Ashley. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3813 Registered: May-04 | It is only a movie. And for the most part a movie that you probably won't remember next year. TV is even worse. There are more often than not bigger concerns in the world. Andy, you seem to be very serious about your system. That's great if that is what's important to you. You can probably give some great tips on how to set things up. But to do it absolutely correctly is firstly expensive and secondly a bit of a pain in the butt when it requires a dedicated room. Audio and video as hobbies have always attracted a somewhat demented crowd. If someone wants to take this hobby to the exreme, I have no problem with that. For me the enjoyment is on the audio side and so I find most of the HT stuff to be just TV. |
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Bronze Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 50 Registered: May-05 | Jan hi, It sounds like it to me you have been in the field too, as to hobby hell no, and if I can tell you there is a way of getting 10.1 out of 5.1 on the cheep side you probably won't believe me. Ashley. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3815 Registered: May-04 | Unfortunately I wouldn't care. I already have too many speakers in my HT room. Besides most of my favorite movies are in black and white with a mono soundtrack. Lon Chaney Sr. doesn't require 5.1 and will not benefit from 10.2. I listen to non Dolby Digital or DTS sources in simple stereo since I can't really tolerate the crap that passes for matrixed surround. |
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Bronze Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 53 Registered: May-05 | Hi there Jan, Now that's scary http://www.lonchaney.com/ and B&W and mono I like "Casablanca"http://www.archivioimmaginicinema.com/catalo9.jpg and what's wrong with experimenting Jan, nothing at all, and I thought I was cynical, like the chief projectionist said to me "in this filed you have to think like a projectionist, by that I have come up with some really good ideas, drawing it down on paper and seeing what will work using techniques from the past and looking at what is on hand today. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3819 Registered: May-04 | Ashley - Too many people want to think only of the next piece of audio or the next DVD. I found looking back is much more helpful in most cases. Someone familiar with the phantom center channels of Paul Klipsch and the David Hafler derived quad system will see the advances that have been made over the last fifty years of audio have been, for the most part, rather piddling. The original, silent "Phantom of the Opera" with Chaney is my one of my desert island films. The last few minutes where the mob is chasing him and he is trapped with citizens converging from both sides is probably my all time favorite scene in film history. The Phantom's last gambit when he holds the final bit of his destructive power high above his head is a bit of genius. Watch it if you have the time, but get a copy with the original score. No matter how you feel about war, try "The Best Years of Our Lifes". It was the first anti-war film made in America in 1946. It is an Academy Award winner. I have to say, I think films should be about more than explosions and the next big special effect. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 983 Registered: Jan-05 | Movies are about entertaining, and nothing more. On the other hand, sometimes sitting down with a good book isnt a bad way to spend the evening. This is a must for anyones reading list. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0974537616 |
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Bronze Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 69 Registered: May-05 | Thanks as for reading I'm very slow at getting a story a science fiction one in fact, and it's been very difficult to get this into the 10 page as it's on page number 6 so far and the planning of it is all in my mind, and been under a lot of strain does not help one way or the other. I have also done storyboards to illustrate the complexity of it and they look good to, with 5 design ideas for the open sequence alone, so if one does not work then the other one may work to the advantage. Any way this is not the place to talk about my story, its calibration levels and a whole lots of issues this one as, more than can be imagined. And seeing that most home cinemas have the need for critical calibration in the 7.1 arena lets talk shop. Ashley |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3822 Registered: May-04 | Paul - I had that book. I found it in the gutter. The story of a Republican trapped in a human's body. I started a nice fire for the grill with it, though it left an unpleasant aftertaste to everything. A rather bitter, acrid, spitball taste. Oddly enough I wanted to challenge Chris Matthews to a duel after I ate. I stood there and imagined Zell burning in his afterlife as I saw it go up in flames. Very comforting book in that regard. Now, shall we leave politics to someone else on another forum? |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 990 Registered: Jan-05 | LOL... We should include this topic on the 'golf ball' thread in the home theater(car subwoofer)forum. heh Spitballs, anyone?? |