|
Anonymous | hi I just purchased a new system, which consists of a yamaha 5650, 2 jbl ND310II's and there surround package "SCS160SI". im using a higher end Toshiba dvd player hooked up through a top line monster optical cable (200 series, $60 for 1m) these towers have 2 10's, a mid and tweeter, the yamaha reciever uses "discrete amplification" and is supposed to be a pretty clean amp (.06%thd) but the bass doesn't sound as clean and full as it should, nore does the treble. they sounded MUCH better in the store running of a CD (ive tried a few cd's). I plan on upgrading my speaker wire, someone told me about diy cat5 speaker wire, but it was also highly recommended that i get a powercenter because my power is so dirty, its ruining my picture and sound. i like alot of mid/low bass, and loud, which is why i got these speakers over the klipsch (the 2 10's sounded awesome in the store, much fuller than klipsch), but i just can't turn it up to what i know its capable of, just doesn't sound good. my bass level is only at +2, treble 0 (out of 10) any suggestions?? i was thinking of either the monster power center 3500 ($400, can get it for about $180 new) or the monster power bar 1100 ($200, can get it for $90 new) im leaning towards the powercenter 3500, but is it worth it or all just bs propoganda? id rather spend $90! lol thanks |
|
New member Username: GmanPost Number: 94 Registered: 12-2003 | It isn't dirty power.Once the power enters the component it hits the transformer anyway. It is undoubtedly a combination of at least 2 things. 1) The cheaper Yamaha receivers--this one is available from $260-$360 depending on where you buy it have mediocre amplification. Sure it probably has 80 watts with 2 channels driven at a friendly 1 khz frequency. I would bet that with 5 channels driven it drops below 40 watts. 2) When the music gets loud and the speakers have low frequency passages that means you are likely to have trouble, as the woofer will want most, if not all of the power. Were you playing this exact system in the store, or was it played on a more powerful receiver? Seems to me a self-powered subwoofer would do wonders for your system. Put the crossover at 80 or 100 hz and then your speakers will be able to play as loud as you want without struggling driving the woofers. If your dealer is recommending the powercenter, tell him to lend you one to see if that cures any of your problems. Is your tv picture bad only when the surround system is on? Make sure your speakers--the center and the left and right fronts (if they are close to the tv) are magnetically shielded. If they aren't--they will mess up your picture. I doubt you need speaker wire, unless your surrounds are 25 feet or more away from the receiver or the wire isn't 16 gauge or thicker (like 14 or 12). I hope your speakers are 8 ohm speakers, as 4 ohm speakers with that amp can cause problems. I wouldn't buy the powercenter 3500 unless they lend you one first. I think at least a good $200 or so powered subwoofer would do wonders. However, that won't cure your tv picture. If your tv doesn't have problems when played with your surround system off--obviously "dirty power" isn't effecting the tv. And if the tv has problems with everything else off, I would bet the tv has a problem. If the dealer is so confident it is dirty power, then have him lend you a powercenter to see if it changes your picture. If he isn't willing to back his advice--why should you? It is pretty dicey advice anyway. |
|
New member Username: GdawgPost Number: 30 Registered: 12-2003 | Anon, Yes, a good powered sub should do the trick. It would take all the load off the amp, and would highly increase the dynamic range of the amp. If you get a powered sub set all the speakers(in the setup menu)to small, and leave the bass to the sub. Heres a good sub ;-) http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem%26item%3D3070158193&category=3275 One of your problems may be the fact you are using a low end Yamaha amp with JBL speakers. Where did you buy the amp? If you bought the Yamaha at a local Best Buy or Circuit City, you should be able to take it back and exchange with a Harman Kardon AVR-130. This would be a very wise choice, because the HK would have the current and power needed to puch those JBL's. And has the right sound acoustics to match the JBL's. Hope im of help! G.DawG |
|
dubz Unregistered guest | the reciever costs $400, the next step up is a $500 5660 (which claims only 5 more watts) i want to stay with yamaha because i work at the place i got it, so the $400 costs 250, the 500 i believe is 310. anyone know if the 5660 is that much better? i thought the one i was getting was good |
|
dubz Unregistered guest | also, it sound good when im doing my surround sound, its just when i turn on my music (so only 2 channels) that it getts sloppy when i crank it. i think i may return it, anyone know if the 5660 is for sure a good reciever? the guys at work said the only difference was more inputs (which i don't need, but would be nice) and just a little more power |
|
dubz Unregistered guest | also, there are no problems with the tv picture, but when i was testing it everything else was off. |
|
dubz Unregistered guest | hehe, sorry not to put this all in one post, but which reciever do you guys recommend i get? the kenwood 7070 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051826210196&skuId=5391462&type=prod uct&productCategoryId=cat03031 or the yamaha 5660 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051806320133&skuId=5393237&type=prod uct&productCategoryId=cat03031 i am going to stay with 1 of these 2 brands, since i will get them for much cheaper through my work. it seems like you guys are saying im underpowering my speakers, the kenwood has 20 more watts than mine, 15 more than the 5660 help! thanks |
|
New member Username: GdawgPost Number: 32 Registered: 12-2003 | Dubz, While the Kenwood does only say 20 more WPC, it was rated at 92wpc continuous with all channels being driven. The Yamaha would probably make 45wpc (all channels driven) if it was lucky. I would still have to recomend the Harman Kardon, but would also say try the Kenwood, and if you like it keep it. Better yet, you could also just buy a subwoofer there(or from me)later or now if you can afford it. Doesnt BB sell Velodyne? |
|
New member Username: GdawgPost Number: 33 Registered: 12-2003 | This is probably the best subwoofer at best buy, http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051826208882&skuId=5379011&type=prod uct&productCategoryId=cat03045 I didnt even know best buy sold Klipsch. G.DawG |
|
New member Username: UnicronwmdPost Number: 9 Registered: 12-2003 | Sounds like, 1 of 2 things. Cheap speakers or bad room responce. Here is the thing, I have had a Yamaha RX-V592 75 watt receiver for 6 years and I love it. I was going to upgrade to a 1400 this month but I bought a sub instead. Anyways, back on subject. My Yamaha receiver with a pair of Infinity SM122 speakers could produce sound below 20hz. EVERYTHING shacks in my room at 20-24hz tones at around 100dbls. I never bought a sub in the past 6 years because I never needed one. Now, I have "upgraded" my speakers to a older pair of Infinity Overture-1 speakers. They reproduce the best soundstage I have ever heard! Anyways, when I got the small Ovtr-1 speakers, I had to wait a week for the stands. So I placed them on my older floorstanding speakers. They sounded great but the bass bottomed out quickly. I was very dissapointed, so then I started my search for a sub. Later I then notice that there was a ton of bass in a few parts of the room but not at the listening position. Later I tryed something. I would sit about 9 feet away from the speakers at the sweet spot, while playing a 40hz tone at 70dbls. I then moved over 6 feet to the left and the spl metter jumped up to 94dbls. 24dbls louder 6 feet over. When I finally got my stands and placed them as best as I could. Oh my God, these things finally had some real bass. I just plain love these speakers now. In the past week, I watched 6-7 movies. This friday I should be getting my subwoofer, so things can only get better from here:D My point is, if you don't place the speakers properly. They can sound like crap. You also should worry about bass cancilation too. Try to keep your speakers a least 1 foot away from the walls. When you have a speaker too close to a wall or projection tv, sometimes frequencies will bounce off the wall back into the driver. This will cancel out that frequency. You could honestly take a $1,000 speakers and place it in a room and have it sound like a $150 pair of KLH speakers. I hope that helps in some way. also, like Gregory Stern said, speaker wire wouldn't be your problem here. I say 14 or 16ga should be just fine. I use a cool looking metallic blue 14ga copper car speaker wire and it work just great. $45 for 500' feet. The things we buy when we're pimpin on a budget:P |
|
dubz Unregistered guest | i feel like a idiot! lol, i was looking in my manual, and it said there's a impedance switcher, to go from 8ohm everything, to 6 ohm everything/4 for the mains. low and behold, it was switched for the 4/6ohm speakers. switched it over to 8, sounds MUUUUUCH better, before i could only turn it up to -30db, now -23db, even at low volumes it sounds much better. the difference is huge, but it still sounds like there a little underpowered. Treble sounds sooo much better too, sounded kinda crappy before, good now. i was talking to the manager in that dept, and he said for the average speaker, the 5650 is great. but for my speakers, especially because of the 2 10's in them, i should use the 7070, because im slightly underpowering them, and underpowering is what blows speakers. gdawg, where did you find that info? so the kenwood puts out about 2x as much power into 6 channels? is it the same for 2 channels? btw unicron-wmd, there not really cheap speakers. there not audiophile grade or anything, but there only about 3 months old, and they retailed for $400 a piece ($800/pr), im sure to some people here thats kinda low end, but they sounded like KLH before, now they sound like jbl :D thanks, ill update if i change out the reciever |
|
New member Username: UnicronwmdPost Number: 10 Registered: 12-2003 | Hey Dubz, I wasn't really calling your speakers cheap. A lot of speaker companies make some great speakers and some cheap speakers. Me, I like Infinity speakers but 70% of them are crap, but they do make some top notch stuff too. I really don't care for the JBL sound. Some say Infinitys are bright but I have heard some JBL sound much brighter. Anyways, here is the thing. I was busy at work when I wrote my last post so I couln't finish it completely. Some people think Yamaha is a bright receiver, and your JBLs are more then likely bright too. This is giving you a thin sound. The higher frequencies could be overpowering the bass. I am sure you didn't notice this in the store because it is more of a open area. Also, people tend to get sucked into the bright speakers/receivers in the store beacuse they sound more detailed. Then when you get them home in a smaller area, it is a whole different story. Try to find your self a warmer receiver to match with the speakers better. I say screw the BestBuy discount and get a H/K receiver. Look for last years models and get them $200 cheaper. Anyways, let us know what you do man. I am glad your setup at least sounds a little better. Good luck, WMD |
|
dubz Unregistered guest | oh, i didn't mean to sound like i was taking offense, i just wasn't sure if you knew the speakers i was talking about, because they do make some lower line stuff too ive done a little research and i am going to return in for the 7070. the only reason i am going through best buy, is because i work there and get a SWEET discount, not to mention the 4year psp is about $4.00. if i was just going out and buying somthing, id look elsewhere. also, upon talking to the salesguy in that dept (not my dept, kinda a newbee to audio) they use VERY expensive yamaha recievers(or maybe it was pioneer elite??), can't remember what he called it, but not anything they sold. by bright do you mean not bassy/mid range but more of a "treble" speaker?? sorry if i sound dumb, im learning :D. these where the "fullest" sounding speakers they sold (went there again, got them for a REAL good price), they do have 2 10's, so midbass shouldn't be a problem. but im not exactly sure what you mean by bright. out of everything they sold, i personally liked these, i also liked the Athena's, but theses a little more. they tried pushing klipsh on me, but i just didn't think they sounded as good as they should. |
|
dubz Unregistered guest | according to the November sound & vision magazine the kenwood 7080 puts out 35x5, (as tested, not the previously claimed 92x50 somthing to do with a protection circuit or somthing....but they said you can't notice the power drop (takes a second to drop in power), and gave it very high ratings for just about everything, said it had ample power in 2 channel and 5 channel. 5 channels not what im worried about, i only crank it up in 2 channel, 5 only gets moderatly loud. |
|
New member Username: GmanPost Number: 98 Registered: 12-2003 | Dubz--so your tv has no problems with your system off? Hence you don't need a powercenter or have dirty power. You may have a center speaker and your 2 front main speakers witour magnetic protection. That can definitely mess up tv reception or dvd playback. The magnets in the speakers when they are near the tv cause problems--that is why all current speakers used for surround--particularly the centers and the fronts are magnetically shielded. The only other things I can think of that might cause tv problems with your system on is bad wire coating near the tv or receiver problems--check the connections and make sure they are tight. As far as bass, you may have first try (if possible in your room layout) and put your main speakers in corners (walls greatly help bass response) or to get a subwoofer (self-powered. The least to spend on a good subwoofer is $200, but the PSB subsonic 5 at $350 is very good, or check out the HSU subwoofer site. They have new line of STF-1, STF-2, and STF-3. HSU KNOWS SUBS. The new STF-1 is on sale at $299, the STF-3 at $399, and their excellent VTF-2 is on sale at $449 delivered. Some people like a cheaper Sony sub--I am not one of them. The advantages of a good sub is you can crossover your speakers at 80 or 100 hz and let the subwoofer do all the work on the low frequency--this frees up your receiver to drive the midrange and tweeters to as loud as you can listen--as theytake minimal power to drive loud. |
|
dubz Unregistered guest | what bad picture is everyone talking about? it looks fine. when i mentioned dirty power ruining the picture/sound i was only quoting what my friend said, how pic quality usually impoves (but its not bad now) and sq, which has already dramatically improved. and my surround package, JBL SCS160SI has a sub that sounds pretty good, i just turned it off so i could 'tune' my speakers, when i realized they sounded like crap. |
|
New member Username: GdawgPost Number: 43 Registered: 12-2003 | So Dubz, Are you still going to try the Kenwood? Last years Kenwood was found to have 92x6 and 121x2. I dont know if Kenwood has used the same amplifier, but isnt there also a discount on HK's too? What is the sensitivity on the JBL's? |
|
New member Username: GdawgPost Number: 44 Registered: 12-2003 | They are 91db 1W 1M according to JBL's website.. So even that Yamaha shouldnt have too much problem driving them. If you want to see for yourself Ill save you time; http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.asp?ProdId=ND310II&CheckProduct= Y |
|
dubz Unregistered guest | UPDATE: news is better than i thought. i exchanged recievers, first thing i notice is the box says 120x6, the tag says 100x6. so i open it, and there's a sheet saying its the updated 7070a, not the 7070. bandwith for the component input/outputs have been increased for a hdtv picture, and the power output has been increased to 120x6 instead of 100x6. the total power consumption 3.4A instead of 3.0A I releaze that its not really 120x6, but it has a 3.4A (408watt) power consumption, not the yamaha's 2.25 (270watt), that right there shows you its a MUCH more powerful reciever, the fact that it draws more power. for comparision, the 5660 draws 330watts. i hooked it all up, turned it on, WOW its soo much louder and fuller sounding, i guess it should, there getting 40 more watts. im not to concerned about the x6 rating, because i never really crank it in that mode, but im sure its much improved all in all, a MUCH better reciever, the remote is 10x better too. |
|
New member Username: GdawgPost Number: 46 Registered: 12-2003 | Glad to hear your happy! Any more problems/questions, you know where to go! |
|
dubz Unregistered guest | hey, thanks alot for the help. just so i don't have to start another thread, can i ask you another question? you seem to know alot about this stuff. do you think line conditioners are worth it? what kind would you recommend? ive been thinking about ordering a Monster powerbar 1100. http://www.monstercable.com/power/productPagePower.asp?pin=1320 which i can pick up direct from monster for $80+shipping. at this price, i think its a win-win, and i don't think i need to go with something like the powercenter 3500 for 2x as much, what do you run? thanks again...im learning :P |
|
New member Username: GdawgPost Number: 53 Registered: 12-2003 | Dubz, Go with the powerbar. I use a similar one in my system. They are very helpful, if you ever have power surges in your area. I have heard of a few people on this message board have power surges, and it ended up costing them big money. Go for the Monster! G.DawG |