Archive through August 30, 2004
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 256 Registered: Apr-04 | Rick, I look forward to hearing about the McIntosh/Spendor. Your first post established the intrigue. All this retro stuff...very appealing! It's interesting that you are selling off the HT equipment. On the surface this seems to be "downsizing" but it sounds like you may get a more fulfilling system? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2024 Registered: Dec-03 | Rick, I, too, look forward to your review. Cheers. Ghia (3.52), They are called "valves" in UK. To me, it makes more sense. They create an electrical point of no return. Transistors are just semiconductors, one way or another. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 395 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghia, On the surface it does sound like I am downsizing. I will still have a seperate HT system. I've just sold off the Aragon/Acurus amps and the Proceed pre-pro. I had a Marantz SR-880 5.1 receiver in the closet I kept as a back up if a piece went down. So I went from 200 watts a channel to 110 a channel for HT. Still enough power for sane movie viewing. I'm going to rethink a second stereo only system. Something tube based, Maybe an old Mac and another pair of Spendors. That will give me a HT system, and two seperate stereo-music only systems in 2 other rooms. Time will tell..... Cheers! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 396 Registered: Dec-03 | Hi All, Well I promised you the Mac/Spendor review so here goes. I spent a lot of time listening to this system over the last 10 days, and wanted to be sure of what I was really hearing before rushing to judgement. The System: McIntosh MA-6100 integrated amp California Audio Labs CL-20 CD player Spendor S3/5 speakers on 24" stands Transparent Audio Labs interconnects Mapleshade Golden Helix spkr cable Mapleshade brass iso cones under amp and CD player I'll start with the MAC, and again have to give kudos to Jan Vigne. He is the man who reminded me how good McIntosh gear is and always was. As best I can tell from the serial # the amp is circa 1974. It is rated at 70 watts per channel. From what I understand, this was Macs first all solid state integrated amp. The first thing I noticed, or should I say heard, was a silent dark background. I'm not talking about that cold, unfeeling, silent, deep space black type background. This one was a warm, silent, black velvet background. Even though you knew it is an inanimate object, you swore there was a soul in there somewhere. I can't describe it any other way, it's just weird. The overall sound was more tube like, than solid state. I can only think this is so because of all the great tube gear Mac built up to this point. If they were going to use that sound for their frame of reference for solid state equipment, it would be logical. The best thing this amp does is just present the music and get out of the way. The fact that this amp still does this after 30 years-WOW! I think enough said about build quality. I have owned a lot of amps over the years. Very good amps in fact. I have not heard one better than the Mac for presenting music. For the Spendor portion of the review, I suggest you go to Enjoy the Music.com and look up the review:Spending time with the Spendor S3/5 by Herb Reichert, before reading further. I refer back to the article, and comment on several of Mr. Reichert's comments. I purchased the Spendors without auditioning them first, based on this article. Let me start by saying I have owned more speakers over the years than I care to remember. Some truly fine speakers, and some that truly disappointed. The more recent ones Maggie 1.6's and Ohm Micro Talls. My frame of reference for speakers, or what I thought speakers should sound like are the Wilson Audio Watt Puppies. I truly don't think it gets any better than this. However, at $22,000 a pair, it isn't going to happen in my lifetime. So ok Herb, let's see what this female voice thing is all about here. I put on a little Jewel and sat back. Stunning! Wow! These little guys sure to vocals right. Let's move on to violins and acoustic guitars. They say the 3/5's do them very well. I put on Eric Clapton Unplugged. It wasn't until I was half way through the CD, that I realized the system just disappeared and there was only the music. Real music, just Mr. Clapton and his acoustic guitar, 8 feet away from me. It was that real. I moved on to classical music. Stringed instruments just come alive with these speakers. You can not only hear them resonate, you can feel them. Amazing detail and clarity. OK OK they do the voice and string thing well, but can they rock? Out came a little Joe Cocker, Robert Cray, Peter Gabriel, Buddy Guy, and all the stuff I loved but hadn't really listened to in years. CD after CD, no listener fatigue, amazing sound, no adjusting the volume, no subwoofer-WHAT!!!!No SUB????How can this be? I didn't even miss it? These things only go down to 70Hz. How can this be? It's funny how it's enough if it's accurate. That is what these speakers Are all about. I have had speakers that play louder, and lower, but never this accurate. In answer to your question Herb, I am going to quote a friend-----YEP!------------- I think this speaker is going to wind up as one of the true handful of audio classics. I think it's the most accurate bookshelf speaker out there. Oh yeah, as far as that thing about they can't play loud? In my 18'x18' room with this old 70 watt McIntosh relic, it played as loud as I need it to. Dare I say it? I think I found something that sounds like a pair of mini Wilson Audio Watt Puppies. I urge anyone who truly loves music to find a way to get a pair of these into your system. Enjoy the music everywhere. Cheers! |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 533 Registered: Aug-04 | Rick "The first thing I noticed, or should I say heard, was a silent dark background. I'm not talking about that cold, unfeeling, silent, deep space black type background. This one was a warm, silent, black velvet background. Even though you knew it is an inanimate object, you swore there was a soul in there somewhere. I can't describe it any other way, it's just weird." You need an exorcist. Throw some Holy Water over that Mac now! This equipment will have your head doing 360's. Okay all kidding aside. That's a pretty darn good wrap for audio gear. I'm really, really, glad I can't hear it :-) Glad to hear of the enjoyment your getting from the Mac and Spendors! BTW: get over to the'Music' thread and click on discoveries and please contribute. You can't just talk about it - now you gotta show it! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 397 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks Rantz, I was a little worried about that statement. I thought the men in the white coats might show up at the front door. I wish I could show it but no digital camera. Remember, I'm just an old dog caught up in a digital world. Will try to borrow one. Cheers! PS Congrats to the Aussies in the olympics. Doing some fine work. I find myself cheering them on. Remember that Americans love Aussies! Great people, great friends, great allies. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Rick - Very glad to hear you have such fine music in your life. Your choices of artists is outstanding and the thought of sitting back and just listening to the performance whenever you want is wonderful. There is no substitute for good music in your life, and when you don't have to listen to, or through, a system to get there you have one of the greatest achievements of our age. It makes you wonder what it was like for so many people in the 1920's and 1930's to hear reproduced music for the first time in their home. Did they feel the performers were right there just 8 feet away? You should be quite happy with that system for many years to come. It is the type of system I tried to steer my clients toward instead of having them change out components over and over again. Buy it right and then just liten to the music. Two questions; did you get the PanLock cabinet with the amp? It really dresses it up and adds that extra retro touch that says, "I'm very happy with this system. Please don't bother me while I'm listening." The other question is, doesn't that amp have two phono inputs? You're not going to let them sit idle are you? Kegger - So I take it you like triodes?! What pre amp have you settled on? And what tubes are you running now? |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1270 Registered: Dec-03 | rick very nice interpritation of what you are hearing. Glad to hear of the enjoyment your getting from the Mac and Spendors! i was looking at those ones from the website john showed(with the bottom sub cabinet). ............................................. well jan to say the least i do like triodes! well i've tried something a little daring. the little dared preamp takes 12at7 tubes as you know. well i did some research and took a somewhat educated guess that 12ax7 tubes would work in my preamp, well low and behold they do. weeeee!! no extra heating up no strange sounds and the transformer runs fairly cool even after hours of use. with that it gave me a whole new line of tubes to try. i've got just about every tube out their except bugle boys. the mullards are to dark. telefunkens sound very good maybe a little to laid back. sylvania right their second best tube. the ei's from yugoslavia do the trick, light,airy,dynamic and bring the voice right in! bass guitar notes are incredable you hear the rasp of the strings as the note starts, stunning! the se-40 amp, i've done a lot of reading of other peoples recomendations for this amp and everyone says sylvania 6sn7/gt are the only tube to use as the input. well it just so happens the guy i got the amp from heard the same thing and sent me a set with the amp. now as far as power tubes go this unit origonally could not use some 6l6gc's and get the bias right. so the kit made adjustments to this but then you couldn't bias the other tubes. originally a 1.6k resistor was used to set the bias voltage through the curcuit. the kit put in an 800. i changed the resistor to 1k so now i can bias any tube. i only have 2 sets of tubes for this unit. stock sovtek 5881's rugged but lack any real detail or dynamics. the other set is jj tubes much better than the sovteks but i'm told the "Electro-Harmonix 6L6EH platinum matched sextet" are the tubes of choice in this unit. so i will try those in the future. hopefully sunday i can get some real comparison between the se-40 and the rogue. "in both triode and linear" oh by the way when i went from 12at7's to 12ax7's the soundstage opened up, voices sounded a lot cleaner and more focused.! i would really like to try the audio research sp16 tube preamp but $2000 is to rich for me. i keep checking audiogon to find a used one. the highend shop near me sells them and i love the unit. when i get around to it i will completley go through one of the dynaco preamps and get that upto snuff. so i can add a good working subject to the mix for testing. the rest of my parts should be here by tuesday to rebuild one or both of the st-70's. so we'll have 3 tube amps to eveluate the differences. allright guy's sorry about taking up all the thread space with the tube stuff. but i kinda feal a duty here with so little about tube audio on this site. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2026 Registered: Dec-03 | Wonderful review, Rick. Many thanks! Jan, "that extra retro touch that says, "I'm very happy with this system. Please don't bother me while I'm listening." " Great. "The other question is, doesn't that amp have two phono inputs? You're not going to let them sit idle are you? " Of course Rick would not do a thing like. If, that is, he still had his LP collection... Jan, briefly, and not wishing to interrupt, do you have any recollection of the KEF Reference 102? With/without Kube? Are they in that Spendor LS3/5 league? http://www.kef.com/history/1970/model102.htm http://www.kef.com/history/Hist1980.htm |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 537 Registered: Aug-04 | "PS Congrats to the Aussies in the olympics. Doing some fine work. I find myself cheering them on. Remember that Americans love Aussies! Great people, great friends, great allies." Rick Thankyou. Part of that comment represents one of the greatest traits of humanity that, in some cases, I fear is in danger of extinction: sportmanship. The other part (the last sentence) is something none of us should take for granted, and the majority of us here feel likewise. Good on yer mate! BTW: the curse I put on some of your swimmers still applies! |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 269 Registered: Apr-04 | Rick, Stop it! Every time you do a write up on your equipment, folks have to start figuring how to work their budgets to catch up! Just kidding. Very nice writeup! Do you think the Mac plays a role in the excellence of the Spendor sound? Have you tried the Spendors with the Marantz? How do these speakers compare to the Ohms that you were so enamored with? Here's another Spendor 3/5 writeup: Spendor Review |
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Silver Member Username: WryterNaples, FL US Post Number: 195 Registered: Jul-04 | J Vigne et al - Just had to comment on my "charity-before-player" decision - because it was made on the strength of your original comment, which got me thinking rather seriously about all of us "haves" and all of the "have-nots" in this world. After seeing pictures of the suffering - which we missed by being 40 miles to the south only - my wife and I decided to follow your rather excellent suggestion. It was not a "noble" or "selfless" decision on our part - just a sorta "thank you" to the God we bow to that we are alive and in a home we love. And Jan - if you go to the "discoveries" thread in Music - you'll see I've posted some pics of my humble system and my living room listening environment. It's all what you might call "classic Minimalist!" GRIN On another subject - seems that a friend's generosity will allow me to buy some new and better speaker stands - and I'm told I'll be the first one in America to do so. They have hollow tube uprights - and from what I read here on this forum, I should fill them with KITTY LITTER? Well - I WAS going to fill them with sand, but. . . what's the rationale for the KL? Hep out an ole scribe, puh-leez! More anon - with respect - Larry R. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 398 Registered: Dec-03 | Thank you John and Kegger. Again, special thanks to Jan for pointing me in the right direction. (Holmes should be so lucky) LOL! Thank you Rantz, and I can live with the swimming curse my friend. Ghia, yes I think the Mac plays a major part in the Spendor sound. No I have not tried them with the Marantz, nor do I care to. It sounds so perfect right now, I don't want to touch a thing. The best part of this system is the price. I found both the Mac and the Spendors on Audiogon. If you take the source component out of the mix, you would laugh at what I have invested to get this sound. Prior to this post I listened to my favorite piano concerto: Beethoven Piano Concerto No.5 In E Flat "Emperor". I have heard this concerto probably 500 times in my life including approx. 20 live performances. What I just heard through this system gave me goose bumps. The Ohms are indeed fine speakers, and I am keeping them as the mains in my HT. They throw up a huge soundstage and fill this role very well. As for accuracy of music reproduction, there is no comparison. Cheers to all! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 399 Registered: Dec-03 | Sorry Jan. No I don't have the cabinet for the Mac, but it's on my must have list. If you know a source please pass it along. As far as the phono inputs go, alas I regrettably gave away all my vinyl many years ago. To try to start again now would be totally insane. Cheers! |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 277 Registered: Apr-04 | Rick, Did you get the Spendors from an individual on Audiogon or a dealer? If a dealer, do you mind telling who and how much? If you prefer to email me offline, that's fine. Hopefully, this isn't too intrusive. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 400 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghia, Not at all. I got them from an individual in perfect condition, original box, manuals and registration cards for $700. They are the optional rosewood finish to boot. New retail would be $1200 in this finish. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1291 Registered: Dec-03 | NICE PRICE RICK. i shop audiogon quite often. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 401 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks Kegger!. I have used Audiogon a lot over the years, and have always been lucky. I have met a lot of good people. Sooner or later, if you stay with this hobby long enough, you learn the best way to upgrade is thru the "gently pre-owned market". I will be in the market for a killer tube amp in the near future. I can't let you have ALL the fun. (LOL!) Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1297 Registered: Dec-03 | lol rick! let me know when your ready i may have something! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 402 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks Kegger, I'll let you know! |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Kegger - The 12AX7 is a better audio tube (though often you will see the 12AX7 paired with the 12AT7 in driver circuit of a power amp) and there are lots of 12AX7's to choose from. I've tried the EI's and they are good tubes and, yes, the Telefunkens can be too laid back for some systems. The Telefunkens are a traditional choice because they are usually the quietest, least microphonic tubes. Today you can find several tubes that are equally as good, or better, in both areas. If you can find a set of Golden Dragon 12AX7's I'd say they will outperform your EI's. John - Yes, I remember the 102's. The KEF reference line of that group was the last of the KEF's that sounded like KEF's. After that line the next series, the 104's and so forth all sounded like JBL's to everyone in the shop I worked in at the time. KEF was adjusting their sound to suit the larger American market as B&W had done several years before. The 102's are a good speaker but not quite in the league of the Spendor's or the LS3/5a's. The difference may not be large enough for the difference in price though. The best speakers in that line up were the 101 and the 105. The 105 was used as a studio monitor and was essentially a 101 with a separate bass cabinet. I often would do a demo where I swtched between the 101 and 105 with music that didn't tax the bass extension of the 101 and I don't believe I ever had a client who could tell which was playing at any one time even though they were separated by about 18" due to the size of the 105 and the 101 being on stands. The 101 was, more or less, KEF's unofficial version of the LS3/5a without the little bass boost that gave the 3/5a it's distinctive sound. The drivers were matched to within 1 dB so the imaging and soundstaging were quite good on all the Reference series at that time. The slightly larger woofer in the 102 gave the speaker enough bass to satisfy most people who were looking for a good small speaker. Subwoofers were not the chioce for bass response as they have become now days. Back then if someone had a subwoofer you expected they also had an equalizer in their system. There were several good subs available, we sold a Entech for about $2000 that, combined with the 101's made a better system than the 105 by itself. (The Entech was originally designed for the Quads.) The 102 combined with a good sub from today's market should be a good combination that would hold up quite well to today's speakers but I wouldn't put them in the league of the Spendor from what I have read. I have not heard the Spendor myself but every review of the new Spendor series has reviewers falling all over themselves to say how good the speakers are. The new "Stereophile" reviews the S5e ($1549) and claims they do things his $9000 Quads don't accomplish. I've not read a review that has anything bad to say about the new Spendors other than many speaker manufacturers will be embarrased by how good the Spendors are for less money. The 102's are, in many ways, your Coda's on vitamins. The 102 cabinet has much better bracing (KEF was using computer modeling on this series of speakers) and better matching of components that were held to a tighter specification. They had the traditional KEF sound, which I prefer, that was more musical than most other speakers. So I don't think you would be disappointed with the 102. But if you can find the 101 I'd go with that speaker since your likely to want a sub for the music you play. And if it was a matter of spending money on the KEF now or spending money on the Spendor a little later, I would hold off and get the Spendor. Larry - Noble or not I'm sure there are people who appreciate your gift. The idea of KL for a speaker stand is to dampen any ringing that might occur in the metal pipes. The best solution is to combine materials of different density as you go up the tubes. (An alternative is to fill the pipes with cement as Sound Anchors does.) Lead shot is the foundation, then sand topped with KL. Each adds a different frequency where the dampening is affected. I think the extra weight of sand is preferrable over just KL but a combination of the two would be fine. This is not a "jaw dropping" tweak, just one that eliminates a possible source of distortion and with either sand or KL only costs a few dollars to accomplish. But with a sand filled stand, spiked to the floor, you will have a mass loaded system that will weigh around 50 Lbs. More than enough to stabilze the Polks. Rick- Try Audio Classics for a cabinet. |
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Silver Member Username: WryterNaples, FL US Post Number: 203 Registered: Jul-04 | J Vigne - many thanks - I'll not be getting the new stands until sometime in September, the Alphason company (England) will start US distribution on August 27 - and I'm promised the "first pair" by their new US rep. Gee, I've never had the "first" of anything! GRIN NOW - a big question for you to ponder, sir. Here's what happens. I turn on the Onkyo, with FM playing. The sound is nice and full (much better now that I followed your advice and gave that donation!) Then, I turn it off. An hour or so later, I turn it on again. Sound is "different" somehow. A bit thinner? Something not quite as "full." Have tried this so many times, and yet can't seem to hear any crackling or distortion - just a "different" sound. Comes and goes at random. Man, this has got me wondering! Am I getting so old that my hearing comes and goes? GRIN It's not "dramatic," just noticeable. Nowhere down here to bench-test Onkyo - would have to send it to Texas, I believe - at my expense. Sigh. I've heard other hi-fi sorts claim that their equipment will sound "different" on occasion. Would power differences do that? I've got the unit (unfortunately) on a 15-amp circuit with full surge protection. Only the stereo, TV (when on) and one lamp on the circuit, so it's not straining. I know - I really need a dedicated 20-amp circuit - but in our humble townhouse, I took what the builder gave me. Sigh. Any ideas would be welcome. I don't "think" the Onkyo is bad - but heck, yah nevah nos! BTW - would love to have you hop over to the Music forums and Discussions or OperaNutz Unite! Your insights are often unique, and always welcome! Respectfully, Larry R. |
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Silver Member Username: WryterNaples, FL US Post Number: 204 Registered: Jul-04 | J Vigne - Oops - I meant "Discoveries," not "discussions." Older and older I get. LR |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1299 Registered: Dec-03 | larry if it only happens on the radio it may be your antenna/signal. when you get a different signal for your radio station it can drastically change your eq. may want to try a different way of setting up your antenna! |
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Silver Member Username: WryterNaples, FL US Post Number: 206 Registered: Jul-04 | Kegger: yeah. . . never thought of that. Will check fer shore, wid tanks! Now I've gotta go check to see if the same thing happens with CD player. The sound out of it is rather thin, anyway, so it may not be a fair comparison. But we'll see. . . I'm hoping that something like what you mention is the cause, because sending in the Onkyo for a checkup would be expensive and upsetting. Sigh. Maybe if I pull it out of the cabinet and give it a good WHACK on the top? Nononononononono. . . Respectfully - Larry R. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 161 Registered: Dec-03 | Larry, Maybe it is your mood. Maybe different radio program engineers use different levels of compression. Maybe both |
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Silver Member Username: WryterNaples, FL US Post Number: 207 Registered: Jul-04 | BJ - Hmmm. . . UR probably right. Think I need to stabilize the level of gin in my system - that can surely have an audible impact, correct? Working, working. . . Larry R. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Larry - The answer to your question would depend on a few variables. Have you changed the station and the sound is different? Or has the staion remained constant and you still hear a difference in quality? Stations are free to choose whatever EQ they wish and most stations will sound different from one another. Has the staion changed to a different program source? Our public broadcast channels here will get programming from a variety of sources; i.e., locally produced, local produced but not local in origin, archived material of both types, national and international broadcasts. Each of these will have a different EQ and the broadcast station here in Dallas will simply feed what they have without trying to match sound quality to a particular setting. They will check for standard levels but that is usually all they are concerned about. Any of the above situations will affect your sound quality. You can easily check for variances with just another radio in the house. Even a table radio can show whether the same channel has a different sound from time to time. Any radio with headphones will provide a pretty good signal to use as a judge. Probably even your car radio will do. When you hear someone say their system sounds different from time to time they are most often referring to a system that sounds better late at night. This is due to a cleaner AC line voltage since many of the sources of noise and under voltage conditions over your AC line are off at night. A system will sound cleaner and more dynamic when there is the correct voltage and no noise. Weather conditions can affect some systems but that is not as common. If you are hearing a thinner sound I would suspect one of the above mentioned possibilities as the reason. There is really no need to get a dedicated line with what you have on that breaker. The main culprits of noise within your own house are refrigerator, air conditioner and washer/dryer. These appliances are large current draws and will generate noise on your AC line. A dedicated line is not too important with a reciever based system. Once you hit the Lotto and have a $20,000 system you can worry about a dedicated line. And 15 amp is more than enough for your reciever to get all the current it needs. What you might check is the grounding and polarity of your outlets. You can go to any hardware/home improvement store and buy a tester which will have a series of lights on it to indicate whether your outlet is grounded properly and whether the outlet is wired in phase. Most new homes are OK but if you're curious this will tell you. Even if the outlet is wired improperly if you are not hearing any noises (60 Hz hum or line noise) everything is more than likely fine as is, though a ground fault should be repaired for safety. |
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Silver Member Username: WryterNaples, FL US Post Number: 208 Registered: Jul-04 | Wow, J V - more info than I can "intake" in one breath! Thanks! Yep - checked polarity and for ground faults - no hum, ever. All OK there. The issue of line noise tips me off - I think I'll try a filter on the line - just to make sure refrig, etc., isn't the culprit. The programs I check are all "local," so there should be no difference. I know about those "net" problems! Dealt with them for decades! OK - I'll go down your lists item by item - and do some more checking tonight, then tomorrow morning, when more elect. is in use. Thanks - that may solve my problem! Respectfully, Larry R. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2043 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, Just a quick "thank you" for comments on the KEF 102. that is actually a strong recommendation. Certainly the KEF Coda 2 does not sound the same as the KEF Corelli, despite being same size, shape, two-driver sealed box, and only two years younger. I much prefer the older Corelli. I am not actually a bass addict. 65 Hz is fine. The Codas make good surrounds. A local dealer has a pair of 102s. However, wife judges speakers for how they look, and does not see the need for more. She is sane, of course! I will think about it. Away for a while. Maybe they'll be gone when I get back. |
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Silver Member Username: WryterNaples, FL US Post Number: 213 Registered: Jul-04 | Hey, Jan! Yo! Jan, Jan - wake up! I gotta talk wid yew!! Yo! - Wake up! (grin) Well, my friend, you obviously know a thing or three about those liddle electron-type thangs that course through our wires! After your post last night I did several things. First, put a voltage meter on the incoming plug. It read 114 volts. As I understand, that may not be quite enough? Second, with my little "super-plug" I checked polarity, and connections, etc. All OK there. Then - because my wife took over the living room for her evening of TV (sigh) I waited until this ayem to continue. I had major noise problems with our portable phone, and had done two things: bought a higher-frequency phone, and purchased from Radio Shack a fairly substantial line noise filter. Plugs into the socket, and you plug your whatever into it. OK - took the filter off the phone, and plugged it into the socket where my surge protector-wire junction box plugs. Plugged in the junction box wire, and turned on the stereo - same station, with local programming. Well, I'll be durned! Now - here comes the voodoo and "it must be all in my head" part. I swear the sound was fuller and clearer. Listened to a couple of their CDs, and was sure that I heard (believed I heard?) better sound. My belief was bolstered a few minutes later when my wife, on the way to her studio, said: "Hey, Lar, the stereo sounds clearer this morning - did you do anything?" Really. . . If this ain' voodoo or mental breakdown, you helped solve an ole scribe's frustration, Jan! How do you say "thank you" and have it mean more than just words? Well - Thank You! Now - the remaining problem is with the little powered FM antenna. You'll probably cringe when I tell you that it is plugged into the switched plug on the amplifier - and that the tiny power cord runs in back of the amp to the plug where the antenna part comes in. I'm probably picking up all sorts of "noise" from transformers, etc. on the amp - right? If so, I need to re-route the power cord, etc. Am I on the right track? OK - off my toot and away to the antenna. I hope there's a special place in Heaven for folks such as you - no kidding! respectfully - LarryR. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 162 Registered: Dec-03 | Larry, Are you sure that you fixed the quandry of having your tuner sound good sometimes? |
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Silver Member Username: WryterNaples, FL US Post Number: 216 Registered: Jul-04 | Ben J - of course not. But until I have more time to listen at various times of the day, I won't be sure. Right now, it is my "opinion" that it sounds fuller. Wife agrees. I'm going to on-and-off it during the day and evening - and will post my good-bad news tomorrow. Heck, I'm always open to questions and challenges of my opinions and "findings." I'm easily lead and easily confused. I've said before: I'm not into "tweaking" and wire-changing and such. All I really, really want is to sit down, pop a favorite CD into my machine, and have quality, distortion-free, "as natural as possible" sound lull me into happiness. To me, that's what the wonderful world of hi-fi is all about: the music. Respectfully, Larry R. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 163 Registered: Dec-03 | Larry, I wasn't questioning your findings. I was just wondering if this solved your original quandry. |
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Silver Member Username: WryterNaples, FL US Post Number: 217 Registered: Jul-04 | Ben (grin) you can certainly question my findings, with any angst from me! I'm so simple-minded when it comes to electronics that I often scare myself! Have now removed the powered antenna from the amp receptacle - plugged it into my junction box/surge protector. Not much difference - still get a bit of hash and interference - may just never get any better? Or, may have to try a "new and improved" indoor antenna. Almost impossible to run lead from attic - too many twists and turns in the walls. Sigh. And can't mount anything outside the house - homeowners' assoc. regs, yah know! On and off testing shows rather consistent sound quality - so the filter MAY have done some good? Will keep trying, fer shore! Thanks - Larry R. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 164 Registered: Dec-03 | Larry, Tuner performance can only be as strong as the quality of the FM signal. If you have a dirty signal an amplified FM antenna may worsen the problem. You may try a good passive antenna and see if that helps. If you have an empty cable jack, you may try that. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Larry - Ben is correct in that a dirty signal will only have the dirt amplified along with the program material when you add a powered antenna if the antenna's function is to amplify a signal. Depending on your situation and location you could also be adding noise to the program even (particularly) if you have a clean signal. Most tuners in recievers are not that good in real world use. Like amplifiers, the way tuner specs are taken has absolutely no relationship to how the tuner will have to perform in a real world situation. Many tuners can be overdriven by the addition of an antenna amplifier. It is similar to a carbuerated engine when you open up the two rear barrels on a four barrel carb. In the quest for more power many guys assumed the more gas they could put down the carb the better they would be. They would jet the carb so rich or use more carb than the manifold could handle and they would end up with the car stalling and choking on to much fuel and not enough oxygen. Your FM front end can be drowning in too much signal strength and will result in distortion and noise. So the next question is did you add the powered antenna because you were having a problem with signal strength, or noise on a channel or just because? Antennas are fussy little items that are hard to predict until you try one in a specific location. As I said most cities have a location where they have installed their antenna arrays and your location in relation to that antenna is the determining factor in what type of reception you will have. And FM is much more difficult to achieve good results on than AM due to how the signals are sent through the air. (Frequency modulation [longer waves] vs. Amplitude modulation [shorter waves].) If you are too close to the antenna you will have the FM signal literally flying over your head without being able to get a good signal. Obviously too far away and you will have too little signal strength to recieve a good, clean signal. But a major problem with FM is ghosting similar to what you see on your TV. This is called mutipath distortion and it occurs when there is a direct signal from the antenna coming in to your location and then a second, reflected signal at a lower level that is arriving a few milliseconds after the initial signal. On a digital tuner this will become noise and fuzziness. The answer to this is a choice of two methods, not counting replacing the tuner. One is a very directional antenna and the other is to reduce the signal strength from the antenna. If your powered antenna can be made more directional this can sometimes be the solution, and sometimes you just have to relocate the antenna to a position that doesn't get the interference. This is another case were a Walkman/Discman with a radio or a radio with headphones can tell you what you need to know. Those devices use the wire to the headphones as the antenna. By walking around the spot where your antenna sits and moving the wire around the location of your antenna you can tell if there is a perceptible difference in signal strength or noise in various locations. Even if that doesn't show a difference you should move your antenna around to point in different directions and sit in various locations to see how your tuner responds to the difference in signal. Most of the time there will be, more or less, no difference; but, if you are in a location that is faulty, you might find a big difference with this exercise. If you wife comes in the room start muttering unintelligible sounds and tell her I told you to drive the JooJoo out of your system and next you are going to dance nekked in the full moonlight. You can use a open cable hookup to see if that makes a difference. Simply attach a lead to the cable connector and up to your reciever. This will provide you with a long piece of wire that will act as an antenna. It will be good on some stations and not on others due to the shielding. You can also take a short length of wire, about 18", and hook it up to your reciever and use it as an antenna. It is omnidirectional and may make things worse but it is lower in amplitude and may make things better. I wish there were more straight forward answers but tuners are unpredictable. I lived in a house not a mile from my current location and, because it was closer to downtown and the buildings, I never had good reception until I put in a very directional antenna. Now, a few blocks away, I have clear recption on any antenna. If any of these things help with your noise problem then we can go from there with more specific solutions. They will not, I don't suspect, solve the problem of your tuner sounding different at various times, but this might get you better reception. Digital tuners that are in vogue now are also notoriously bad for reception. FCC regulations state that a station has to broadcast at a specific frequency but anyone who has had an analogue tuner knows that reception often improves when you detune your tuner off the center frequency. This is particularly true when you live in a metropolitan area. A digital tuner will not allow this detuning. It is either on a frequency or it is not. If you are having problems that you think are related to your tuner and not your antenna I would suggest you try a Tivoli Table Radio (http://www.tivoliaudio.com/home.php). Go to a store that sells this radio and tell them you want to try it to see if it will solve a problem. They will usually work a deal so you can just try one for a day (maybe a model they have on display, not for discount but so they don't end up with an open box unit) and you can return it if it doesn't do what you want or keep it if you like it. The last suggestion is to make certain you have your tuner set up correctly. Make sure you have the DX switch (distant) set to the best setting. And the best way to clean up noise in a tuner is to switch to mono. It may not be the way you want to listen to music but a mono signal that is cleaner tells you to either improve the tuner or the antenna. Let me know more about your results and we'll see what we can accomplish. |
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Silver Member Username: WryterNaples, FL US Post Number: 218 Registered: Jul-04 | J Vigne - thanks for help (and patience!) Here's the deal. I've exchanged one powered antenna for another - first one better. Threw second away. GRIN "Walked" the antenna around - and it is better if I hold it up in the air about three feet. (end of cord) But that's very awkward, and my arm gets tired! Tried to find distance/local switch on Onkyo - apparently none. Mono sounds better, but still has some "frying" in it. Question: what if I hook up the amplifier to the Comcast TV cable? (or is that what you meant by connecting to open cable outlet?) I think cable companies may block FM frequencies, but not sure. My options, as I see, are: get a better indoor antenna, use cable outlet, and find some way to snake wire through wall to attic. (a MAJOR and gnarly job!) Other than that, things are going well. How's with you? sigh. Will await your always-welcome reply, Jan. With thanks - Larry R. |
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Silver Member Username: WryterNaples, FL US Post Number: 220 Registered: Jul-04 | (puff, puff) Jan - just got back after wheedling around in and around the stereo cabinet. Tried the cable outlet, and only got pure, loud static. No FM signal, as I suspected might be the case. Well - I'll just keep on a-trying, I guess. The noise isn't so bad that we can't listen to music, but is there in the background. The overall sound, however, is better. I'm afraid to even touch that noise filter, for fear I'll jinx it! (grin) I think it did make a difference. Anyway - thanks - Larry R. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1314 Registered: Dec-03 | larry quit pulling on your weed you'll go blind! |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 285 Registered: Apr-04 | Rick, You have immense powers of persuasion. I think you know where this is going....stay tuned. ;-) |
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Silver Member Username: WryterNaples, FL US Post Number: 222 Registered: Jul-04 | Kegger: OK, I quit. LR |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Do I hear another vintage Mac finding a new home? Ghia? |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 288 Registered: Apr-04 | Jan, If an MA-6200 (with walnut cabinet) is vintage, then yes! Hope to have it within the next week. After reading Rick's glowing reviews and coming across some of your own persuasive threads, I decided this is something I'd like to experience. Will also pair it up with Spendors and the existing NAD C541i and the iPod. I look forward to hearing whether the "old dogs" are right about this. There's a strong suspicion you are. lol. Here's a couple of pics.   |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1327 Registered: Dec-03 | well i just got ome of my st-70's done "modded" i'm fraid to say how much i like it! will post more later on the sound of the unit. original:  modded:  |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1328 Registered: Dec-03 | hear is the board.  the original input tubes were 7199's and from my research not a very good audio tube. this mod incororates (3) 12at7 driver tubes and a power supply upgrade all contained on 1 board. not an extremly difficult mod, but the instructions couyld be a little better. took me appoximatly 10 hours to complete. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1329 Registered: Dec-03 | hear is a pic of how some people add their own style to these old amps. as soon as i figure how i want to do mine that will be done. there kinda like old classic muscle cars the way people hot rod these baby's.  |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1330 Registered: Dec-03 | sorry wrong pic that was the one from manufacturer of the board! hear is the other!  |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1331 Registered: Dec-03 | some of these things can be absolutly beautiful pieces of art. and the sound, all i'm gonna say right now is a huge improvement over the original. and i still have a couple things i want to do. RICK. when or if you consider a tube amp think about an st-70 with the vca mod. the amp's can be had for 250-500 "lower range if not modded or rebuilt yet" then the kit is 150 for a completed board. so you could do one including new rca's for the inputs and new binding posts all modded up including nice paint job for about $500. that's one heck of a 40wpc tube amp for that money! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1332 Registered: Dec-03 | hear is another strange mod plus a nice chassis that can be purchased to really up the WAF a little!    |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 406 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghia, I have an ear to ear grin knowing what you are about to experience. Congratulations! I am one happy "old Dog" for you. Look forward to the review! Jan, Glad to see you are not still sniffing the paint fumes. Well you should be pretty proud of yourself. Another Mac music convert. Kegger, The amps are beautiful! You hit it right on the head, I always viewed tube amps as works of art. Enjoy! Cheers to all........... |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 166 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghia, You might try hooking the Mac up to your B&W speakers (I think using them as surrounds is a waste of an excellent speaker). I don't necessarily think Spendors would be an upgrade. But, then again, once you get into the world of well-made speakers it all comes down to listener preference. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 407 Registered: Dec-03 | Hi Ben, A quick question if I may. Have you actually heard the S3/5's? Leave the Mac aside for the time being. I stand by my quote, I have not heard a more ACCURATE speaker. And I have owned the B&W 801's. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 289 Registered: Apr-04 | Ben, You are right, the B&W's definitely are too good to be underutilized as surround speakers. I will definitely be hooking them up to the Mac until I get the Spendors. Then, it's just a matter of which speaker I prefer. Will probably sell the pair that doesn't "win". Rick, Thanks for grinning ear to ear in anticipation! :-) When I was shopping for the surround system, I purposed avoided the Mac room at the audio shop because I didn't want to know what I was missing (and felt this way because I didn't believe I could afford a Mac). It never really occurred to me to buy "old" equipment, right? But, then I see and hear about JohnA's "old" Rega turntable and "old" KEF speakers and the enjoyment he gets out of them. Add in your experience with the Mac/Spendor setup and Kegger's retro tube (or vacuum as JohnA put it) experiments plus a nice little bonus from the employer....well, I just can't resist. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 167 Registered: Dec-03 | Rick, Have you heard the B&W's with your Mac???? I have heard an earlier version of the B&W when I was buying speakers and liked them very, very much. It was a tough call, but I chose my Castle floorstanders (better bass and a touch more polite). I have not heard the Spendors, but that doesn't matter. My point was that while the spendors may be an excellent speaker, so are the B&W's. In fact, do a search on Spendor in ecoustics and read the reviews. Maybe then you will want to dump the Spendors for some Harbeth, keep them, or buy something else. Not that you should buy components based upon another person's comments, but you can see three different reviewers have three different opinions on your speakers. Unless I got them reposessed, damaged in a fire, or lost in a divorce, there is NO WAY that I would chose spendors over 801's (esp if they were Nautilus 801's)...NO WAY. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 290 Registered: Apr-04 | Rick, In addition to the S3/5 review you provided, I found several other that were highly complimentary of the speakers. Additionally, there were also some very high praise for the 3/5se's. I didn't see the original recommendation made to you in regards to the 3/5's. How did that come about and what prompted you to get those rather than the se's? |
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Silver Member Username: Arnold_layneMadridSpain Post Number: 106 Registered: Jun-04 | Pic's on this thread are gettin almost as exciting as certain "discoveries" by John. Will check them out more thouroughly later on. Mrs. Layne is on her way, and these photos you post would be to much for her, I fear. BTW: Mr K., is it possible to carry out these mods late at night, in the pale moonlight and without making to much noice? Hasta pronto AL |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 408 Registered: Dec-03 | Ben, I would be the first to agree with you regarding the quality of B&W. I do think however, that the quality has slipped a notch in the past few years. I only comment and base opinions on what I hear first hand. I have been around the audio block a few thousand times, and have owned more gear than I ever care to remember. All I can say is go out and listen to these speakers. These will absolutely shock you. There ARE that good. My point is the same as yours-reviews are subjective-go out and listen and decide for yourself. Then post back and tell me what you think. Cheers! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 409 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghia, I remembered Spendor from their work with thw BBC and the great monitors that came from that work. In a speaker, I want accuracy more than anything else. I had the S3/5 on my short list after having auditioned the Quad 11 and 12, and the Dynaudio 42 and 52. They were all fine speakers, and was leaning towards the Quad 12's when I read the review of the S3/5 by Herb Reichert. There was something about that review that just connected with me and I did something I have never done before, purchased a pair of speakers without auditioning them first. As far as the se's go, I heard some good things as well, but I have been fooled before. Most "special edition" versions have a tweaked or modded tweeter that some how gets away from the sound that made it great in the first place. I didn't want to take that chance. I don't regret my choice one bit. When you get your Mac together with the Spendors let me know. Before you play anything for the first time I want to share something with you and all the "Old Dogs". It relates back to a post I did about 8-9 months ago regarding Van Morrison. I think you will enjoy the story. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1333 Registered: Dec-03 | yo lar yes these mods can be done late at night without much noise or light. THAT'S WHAT I DO! he he! rick and ben i've done some research on these speakers myself and they have glowing reviews and you can pretty much tell what sound you are going to get from them. "very accurate with the bass extrememly rolled off after 60hz". for many that will be awsome and cover a wide range of music. i have something kinda simular in the spica speakers i own. but still want something different i like the "bigger" sound a larger speaker gives you. that is me! but i agree with both of you , rick i'm sure the speakers are incredable. ben i also say that ghia is basically wasting the talents of the b&w as rears and should give them a good listen on the mac before buying other speakers. if she feels the spender is her cup of tea, and the b&w's seem to leave room for improvement then by all means give the spenders a shot. but as great as any speaker may be doesn't mean it will be for everyone. rick said he didn't like the 801's as much. my favorite speakers is the nautilus 801! so as many of us have said nothing is for everyone. or even how or what we listen too. cheers peoples. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 291 Registered: Apr-04 | Rick, I look forward to the Van Morrison story. The Mac should ship out today and I hope to have it middle of next week. I'll go ahead and order the Spendors too. The Mac/Spendor combo will be christened with Morrison's "Moondance" CD as a tribute to your inspiration of this. What's the break-in time on the Spendors? Ben/Kegger, Once the Mac/Spendor combo has been christened, I'll give a Mac/B&W combo a try. Kegger, On Discoveries, I threw a request out for surround speaker recommendations but got no response. Now, you want to give me a little flack about "wasting" the B&W's?? lol. Bring it on! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1336 Registered: Dec-03 | ghia my thoughts at the time were you did not "need" to buy surround speakers because you had the b&w's but if your going to put together a two channel system it seemed to me you should give the b&w's a try and if they worked out you could by cheaper speakers for the surround. because in my oppinion the b&w's are more then you need in surrounds. does that logic make sense? |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 410 Registered: Dec-03 | Kegger, Actually I did like the 801's. Not as accurate as the little Spendors. Hard to believe isn't it? Cheers my friend! PS Keep on hot rodding those tubes, I'll be due soon. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1337 Registered: Dec-03 | not giving you a hard time. the b&w's in the rear at that time made sense. "why buy more speakers if you allready have them" but "if" your buying new speakers and you have the b&w's not doing there potential why not see if they work out. that's all. p.s. i know you weren't giving me a hard time about the "wasting" line. just felt the need to clarify! keep on a rockin. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1338 Registered: Dec-03 | rick i have no problem believing the spendors are more accurate. and many like the accuracy they give. but accuracy is not neccasarily me. to me it "can" be a little to sterile. i like a little extra top and bottem end! and the "bigger" speaker sound. personally for me the nautilus 801 is the perfect speaker. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 168 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghia, I'm sure the B&W's are excellent surround speakers. I do feel they would be better served in a 2 channel system. Rick, I think accurate is a relative term. Everybody has their own idea of what it is. Who really knows??? To me accuracy is a combination of source components, signal gain, amplification, and speakers all working in harmony. Sacrifice one and you lose it. I'm suprised will al the speaker talk the goes on in these forums, you don't hear much about about Legacy. I guess Legacy owners are spending their free time listening to musuc |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 564 Registered: Aug-04 | Ghia Congratulations on the Mac - looks in great condition. About the Spendors, why not audition them before buying. I don't doubt what Rick says about them for a minute, but we all different as in what pleases us. I don't necessarilly agree about overdoing the quality for surround speakers - especially for the DVD-A and SACD formats. Unless they are better than the mains, of course. Anyway, you know what you are now that you're learning new tricks on this thread don't you? Rick and Kegger - look what you've done! Is everyone going quite mad or is there really something in this retro audio stuff? I am posting a question for you guys (or Jan too) in the definitions thread about "accuracy" please clue me in if you can - thanks! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 411 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghia, I'm really smiling now. "Moondance" is exactly what I wanted you to listen to. Are you a big Van Morrison fan? There seem to be many on the forum. I'll give you a little clue-look on the liner notes for "Moondance". His guitarist is John Platania. John and I are childhood friends. We have known each other since we were 6. We played in garage bands together. LOL! I won't say any more now, I'll wait til you get your gear for the rest. PS As far as the break-in, I bought mine used, so already there. That was a very pleasant surprise. I would give these 24 to 36 hours. Cheers! |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 412 Registered: Dec-03 | Ben, I couldn't agree with your first paragraph more. Just let me say, I have read thousands of audio reviews over the years, and have agreed with some, and have strongly disagreed with many others. If you have not done so, please go to Enjoy the Music.com and read the Spendor S3/5 review by Herb Reichert. I have never read a review in my 34 years in audio, that for me was more accurate or dead on the money. Everything in that review came to be, for "my ears", anyway. Like he says, if it quacks like a duck.......... |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 292 Registered: Apr-04 | Kegger, Why am I not surprised to hear you like a little extra top and bottom...! Ok, far enough with that thought. lol Ben, The B&W's sound great as surrounds but are definitely not utilitzed enough even when playing surround mixes. Even before this latest endeavor, I was giving serious thought to selling them and getting something a little smaller (and less expensive). Had planned to get another pair of MA's - but one of the less expensive models. My socio-economic status can't reconcile $1000 for a pair of surrounds, especially with how little they are used. The "matching timbre" argument is sound and persuasive but I can't justify the expense. Rick, That's really cool you are friends with Morrison's guitarist. Wow, Sem knows Alan Parsons, you're friends with the guitarist from one of rock 'n' rolls most awesome albums. I have several Morrison cd's of which "Moondance" is my fave. But, I don't know much about him outside the music that I've heard. I love his music....there's a depth and spirtualness that resonates with me. I can't wait to hear the rest of the story. MR, Yes, a madness is settling in! If I recall, on the Plunging thread, I made a comment about being "settled" on my new system and how it would be the "last" one. lol! Well, technically, it will still be around. But, what happens if I like this Mac system better than the surround? Hmmmm...isn't that the debate that got this thread started? LOL! As for a Spendor audition....the closest dealer is 7 hours away. So, I'm getting the "return policy" clarified by the dealer from whom I may be purchasing them. I figure by selling the NAD c350 and (most likely) the B&W's (unless the Spendors disappoint), I'll recoup most of the cost of the Mac/Spendors. Let the madness begin! Of course, maybe "madness" is just a perception...maybe the retro sound is where the real sanity lies, a refuge from the "bigger is better" culture that pervades our society. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 569 Registered: Aug-04 | Ghia I'll look forward to hearing of your enjoyment. A return policy with those speakers is great as you never know about different ears (though with what Rick says, I'll doubt you'll need to). And I always thought old Macs were only good for listening to bagpipes :-) I'll let you guys suffer/enjoy the madness because we have reached (exceeded) the spending limit in our A/V upgrade adventure. Well, for a while. Sshhh! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1339 Registered: Dec-03 | ghia good one! i like. and i'm glad you see/agree with my point. ........................ rantz don't take my point to far. i'm not saying put crap speakers in for surrounds because they don't do much. jahn a and i have gone over this many a time. with these new surround formats rear speakers definatly need to be better than they ever have been before. i just believe a nice par of b&w's can be replaced with something less expensive (but full range and quality) and do the job very nice. i believe they are being underapreciated as surrounds. keep working rantz you don't need to replay i got yu! .................................. ghia me personally timbre matching on rear speakers is not that big a deal. timbre matching accross the front 3 yes! |
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Silver Member Username: Arnold_layneMadridSpain Post Number: 110 Registered: Jun-04 | What do I hear, trading surround for a Mac? There is no contradiction, but the solution involves two more of those packs arriving to your dwellings. And Kegger's helping hand with the tweaking, to make an AV receiver's DSP shake hands with the 3x2 amplifier channels... Mr. K, now an obscure thought is growing in my head. Would it be possible to D.I.Y. triplicate an existing valve state design? My idea is to take it from receiver preouts. So it would be 6 (or maybe 7) separate power steps, built up from a homemade chassi. No DACs, no equalizing, nothing but appropriate tube Watts for each channel. In my case it also has to be compact, 50x40 centimeters and just 35 up to next shelf. If you haven't given it a try, I guess there are some important obstacles. Would truly appreciate your views on this. Thanks AL |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 415 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghia, My apologies! I had to answer a question for MyRantz over on Definitions under Speakers, and had to give up the rest of the Van story. If you haven't made your way over there, please due. I just wanted you to know, you will hear how it really was! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1340 Registered: Dec-03 | well arnold i am not really a designer more of a redesigner. so building a 6 or 7 channel amp is not me. "at least not yet" but i do have 8 channels of 40 watt tube power at the moment. so the thought has crossed my mind of rewiring the whole system tube. "not to mention i got 2 more comin" channels that is lol. jan getting excited? i would not mind 2 more of my little preamps and go all tube surround straight out of the dvd player on back. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 416 Registered: Dec-03 | Kegger, You are a wild man my friend, but why do you need all those channels? Two is all you really need (LOL!). |
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Silver Member Username: Arnold_layneMadridSpain Post Number: 113 Registered: Jun-04 | Nay Rick, the more the better. I plan to follow Mr K's good example and upgrade from 6.1 to 7.1. Mrs Layne forced me to stick rear surround up in the roof. Initially she suggested elsewhere, after me bolting speaker perfectly centered on wall just behind sofa. Solution: 2 speakers on stands, just by back corners of sofa. QED, more is better (and WAF-compliant). Mr K., Can't get this DIY thang out of my head. Power steps must be easier to ape than preamp, components are visible. I'll be back for sure... |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1341 Registered: Dec-03 | arnold i'm not sure i follow your "power steps" do you mean amp channels? and i'm not sure excactly what your asking i guess! could maybe try explaining it too me with more detail. maybe i CAN do what you mean. ....................................... RICK good one. but you should be able to tell by now that i do very little the "conventional" way. i like big speakers and many of them. BUT i do also enjoy my 2 channel. right now i'm very happy that i can do both in the same room. which is what i've been striving for all along! I allways thought it was possable. just had to figure how to do it. that is no knock on anyone else though who has seperate systems. I can relate bro. the bottom line is we all love and appreciate music. some of us just get there in a different way. besides that i'm a tinkerer and can't leave anything alone. not to mention i have the 6 million dollar man syndrome. WE CAN REBUILD IT, MAKE IT BETTER THAN BEFORE! I think just like you have done in the past. my systems are ever evolving. |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 296 Registered: Apr-04 | How would you like to have this Mac system:  |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 577 Registered: Aug-04 | All that to drive a pair of Spendor S3/5's :-) Ghia, in case you did not notice please see Ricks message to you above (Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 10:20 pm) My fault but not intentional. It's a great story and explains Rick's 'accuracy' term for the Spendors well. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1342 Registered: Dec-03 | holy crap i would be in heaven! |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 169 Registered: Dec-03 | ...until you got the electric bill |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 297 Registered: Apr-04 | In winter, the higher electric bill might be offset by lower heating costs.... |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 298 Registered: Apr-04 | ...of course, if you can afford a setup like that, electrical and heating bills are probably not an issue.... |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Great picture, Ghia. On the left there appears to be a rather large item that I need clatification on. It appears to be either a strange new form of horn loaded speaker enclosure or a trash can. I'm guessing it is a trash can which is meant to hold all the discarded surround sound recivers that will be trashed for good two cahnnel sound. They're going to need a big container. My only problem with your photo is I can't detect a single thermionic valve (vacuum tube) anywhere in sight. Mac is producing tube amps again, you know. They have reintroduced the MC275. This is the "big Mac" that so many people say made them want to get interested in audio back in the 60's and 70's. Arnold - Tubes and signal processing pretty much parted ways back in the 70's for home audio purposes. Still very much in vogue in certain recording studios though. But DDS, DD, DPLII, DTS, Neo6, etc. are antithetical to why you own tubes at this point (Kegger's upcoming system not withstanding). As it was pointed out that was the genesis of this thread. It will come around and DIY offers the easiest path to whatever anyone is looking for. Here's a few links to give you ideas: http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?preatube http://www.bottlehead.com/ http://www.diytube.com/ http://www.duncanamps.com/ http://www.graniteaudio.com/ Now it's time to ponder beyond the perimeter of the paralellogram. A suround system with 2 1/2 watt Single Ended Tube amps driving full range, single driver speakers at 96dB efficiency. I'd pay to hear that. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | One more for ideas. Hit "news" and check the photo about 3/4 down the page: http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/ |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 420 Registered: Dec-03 | Regarding the discarded surround sound receivers: I'll help you throw them out. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 170 Registered: Dec-03 | Rick, I read the Reichert review. Here is what I got out of it. 1. The spendors are great speakers if you have a small room, low power, and don't listen to your music above moderate volume level. 2. Nobody really knows what accurate is. 3. Herb was one who bought good music and not music that would sound good on his stereo. He also takes a shot at Diana Krall. His points may be very valid. It is refreshing to see a reviewer that realizes that Ms. Krall-Costello and the rest of the audiophile music industry make good sounds, but not good music. Heck, I'll take a GBV album over any of that audiophile stuff. |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 421 Registered: Dec-03 | Ben, I hope you enjoyed the article. If you ever get a chance, give these speakers a listen. I think you'll like them. Cheers! |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 302 Registered: Apr-04 | Jan, Caught your wit regarding the mystery enclosure/trash can. More photos are at this link (scroll down to John D - Gainesville, GA) and the wide shot leads me to think it might be a subwoofer? Also, from these pics, it seems the acoustical treatment of the room is not optimal for such an ostentatious system? I'm purposely avoiding getting into discussion/questions/advice in regards to vacuum tubes. Need to resist temptation. At least for now. ;-) There's something else brewin'. A little hint: I visited the Phono thread for the first time. MR, Thanks for pointing me to the Definitions thread. Another excellent source of information. Ben, Herb has a good point about how listening tastes sometimes get altered and adapted as you acquire more sophisticated, quality gear. I've found myself doing the same. Still, I'm grounded enough to crank up Jane's Addiction's "Nothing's Shocking" to see how the new system handles it. The answer: Awesome! Who are GBV? |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 171 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghia, I have tried to by some of the Audiophile stuff and I just don't get it. I once bought a Mighty Sam McClain XRCD that Stereophile was raving about and it was the saddest excuse for a blues album that I had ever heard. I had to listen to RL Burnside nonstop for a few days to purge that awful CD from my brain. GBV = Guided By Voices, a Great band from Dayton, Ohio (on Matador records which was home to another great band, Pavement). GBV are calling it quits later on this year. I am glad I will be catching them on their last tour. I love listening to "Up the Beach / Ocean Size" at high volumes..."Three Days" as well, but that't a differend album. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Ghia - Thanks for the link. Enlarging the photos allowed me to recognize the glowing bottles on the left. BIG mac tubes. I'm happy now! |
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LR Wryter Unregistered guest | Been good for me - and I hope I've added a bit or two of knowledge. Thanks, all - and I wish you the best in life. Goodbye - Larry R. |
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Silver Member Username: Arnold_layneMadridSpain Post Number: 118 Registered: Jun-04 | All the best, Larry. Hope to hear from you from time to time, so I say Hasta pronto. Mr. K, Jan, thanks a lot for supporting me in my madness. The idea is more a SACD/DVD-A thing. 6 or 7 monoblock power amps. At first using AV receiver as preamp and later on build a pre-amp. But by now it has to be put on hold. Starting to yearn for complete speaker upgrade. Probably DIY, I have to buy new car this year. I think I've solved the wooden cupboard mystery, It's a "Bodega Electrica"! Used over here to keep Rioja collection at 17º Celsius and 70% humidity all year around. Cheers |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 425 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghia, After you listen to "Moondance" on your new system, put on "Money for Nothing" by Dire Straits. "Romeo and Juliet" takes on a new dimension, and if you never really understood "Private Investigations, musically, you will soon. These little speakers are amazing! |
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Silver Member Username: GhiacabrioletNC Post Number: 307 Registered: Apr-04 | Rick, I will pick up the Dire Straits cd and give it a spin too. There has been a little bit of tweaking in the schedule. As has been pointed out to me, the windows need replacing, the car need new tires, and the bedroom needs some furniture. So, I'm going to have to this in stages and have to put off the speakers until I take care of the other stuff. Hopefully, by the beginning of the year I'll have the Spendors. |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 231 Registered: Mar-04 | Real life: all that gets in the way of what's really important - Buying as much HT goodies as you can. Kidding of course, (aren't I?).  |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 426 Registered: Dec-03 | Ghia-Sem, I'ts tough when life interferes with your real passions. (LOL!) Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1346 Registered: Dec-03 | allright i've ripped apart my speakers again so i can use two amps on them. one for the midrange and treble. "modded st-70" and one for the bass driver. "golden tube se-40" you can see the pieces missing from the xover for the woofer. those are now on the round external xover board. "all h.q. parts"  hear is a shot of the back of the cabinet with the new binding posts.  |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1347 Registered: Dec-03 | hear's a shot of it going back together! "temporary wire nuts"  |
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