Poor quality stereo sound on Yamaha receiver - help needed!

Paul B Unregistered guest	Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 07:27 GMT Hi all, let me first say what a great resource this board is in getting useful info about hifi equipment - the Internet is completely clogged with commercial garbage, but this site (and board) rules. I need some help and advice. I just purchased a Yamaha receiver, an RX-V440 to be precise. I know it's not exactly top of the line or anything, but I am pretty constrained in my budget, and I need something to do music and movies even though I know this isn't going to give me the best audio quality possible. Anyway, the problem I have is this: CD audio sounds terrible when I run the thing through the 'stereo' mode. However, if I switch to digital sound processing, for example the DTS Neo:6 Music setting, then CD audio immediately sounds great - beautiful quality, a nice full sound, good definition and so on. Even Pro Logic II mode sounds better than straight stereo. Now, am I crazy, or should stereo mode not sound better for music than the surround/DSP modes, or at least comparably good? I have tried everything and can't seem to nail what is causing it to sound worse. To describe specifically what is wrong (not using the correct terminology unfortunately due to my lack of knowledge) the sound in stereo mode is sort of murky, sticky, lacking depth or clarity, whereas when I turn on digital processing it is crisp, bright, warm and full sounding. I hope it's clear what I mean - even if I crank the tone controls on stereo mode right up to maximum bass and treble it only just starts to sound fuller and still doesn't sound clear or crisp at all. I should also point out that, although I am using an optical connection from CD Player (also Yamaha) -> Receiver, I have also tried it with straight RCA plugs and it sounds exactly the same in both modes. I should also mention that there is no sound from the rear speakers in stereo mode, as one would expect, but when I turn on DSP there is sound from the rear speakers. My setup is: Yamaha RX-V440 receiver, Yamaha CDX-396 cd player, Dali floorstanding front speakers (4 ohm, and yes the receiver is able to handle 4 ohm speakers according to the specs), two no name brand rear speakers, no centres or subs making it a 4.0 setup. Everything wired up with good high quality speaker wire and good quality connector lines, both optical and otherwise. Help! Have I got a broken receiver, or might there be something wrong with my setup? Or do I just have to live with awful quality stereo? My old and sadly deceased Marantz amp sounded 10x better through the same speakers.
Paul B Unregistered guest	Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 08:35 GMT Something else I forgot to add, too - when I switch from surround to straight stereo the music actually seems to get quieter, which seems quite strange.
Anonymous	Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 00:16 GMT Paul, 1. When U use RCA connections from CD to the RXV440, have U selected "Analogue" on the RXV440? 2. If U want to bypass the CD player's D/A converter, then use the coaxial connection to connect the CD player to the RXV440. U need to go to input selector and switch to "Digital". Try not to use the fibre optic connection as they generally yield poor results. U can get a good 75 ohm coaxial cable from Belden or Canare brands (around $2/m). 3. Surround sound only comes out when playing movies unless U are using a SACD or DVD-Audio player. There is nothing wrong with no sound coming in stereo mode (your 4th para). I can only hazard a guess as to what is the problem (a) the D/A converter on your Yamaha CD player is malfunctioning (b) the connections are damaged (could be CD or RXV440) (c) something is wrong with the Yamaha RXV440 (wired wrongly inside??). PS - U need center speakers to really enjoy movies. Cheers
Anonymous	Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 00:51 GMT Paul, I recently helped a friend setup a RX-V440. She has a 10 year old off-brand (crappy) cd player with RCA connectors only. Using good quality Canare interconnects, and Acoustic Energy speakers, the RX-V400 sounds great. I agree with the previous post: don't use optical connectors, use good quality RCA interconnects, and re-check all of the settings in the receiver. Use the manual and check everything! If there is still a problem, connect your DVD player with the RCA cables to the cd input of the receiver and take a listen in stereo mode. If the problem goes away, it's the cd player. If the problem is still there, you may need to get the receiver checked out. By the way, the Yamaha DSP modes are fun to play with, but will never sound as good as stereo for listening to music. And you really need a center speaker. Borrow one from a friend if you can to test. Movies and tv sound so much better! -Martin
D. Spitzig New member Username: Feminazi Post Number: 21 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 04:34 GMT I demoed an entry level Yamaha receiver and noticed that the sound in stereo was terrible as well, and that it sounded much better in 5.1 modes. My solution was to get another receiver (a Marantz) and it sounds fantastic in all modes now. Can you take the Yamaha back and demo another unit from a different manufacturer? Perhaps the suggested solution of bypassing the DAC on the Yamaha is a good one, I didn't think of that when I had it, and probably would still have exchanged the receiver anyway.
James Lee New member Username: Edison Post Number: 141 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 05:28 GMT Paul, If you return the Yammy, and by this used one on audiogon.com, you will get a noticeable improvement in music, as well in movie. This receiver got great reviews - one of the few surround receivers that do music well. Most surrounds don't sound good in music. The reason why you get better sound in surround mode is coz more speakers are playing, giving you louder sound that seems to float around every where. Step up to a specialty item instead of mass market one, and your ears will thank you. Getting used, you can get quality for less, and most of the buys on the audiogon are ok - better than ebay. Those guys upgrade often, and take good care of the stuff. It is a definite upgrade for the same money.
Paul B Unregistered guest	Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 06:32 GMT Thanks for the help so far, I will try the alternate connections and connecting my DVD player to the CD port for music and report back on what happens. I appreciate the advice re specialised music amps too, but I think I should point out that I do listen to a lot of music and the quality of sound I am experiencing in stereo mode is definitely not normal, it is very significantly dulled and muffled sounding. It is not the kind of difference you would ever hear between a Sony vs a Yamaha vs a Marantz vs a top of the line specialist amp - it's much less subtle than that. The problem I have is that it may be difficult to return or exchange the amp - the store I bought it from is not exactly the kind of place that will be sympathetic if I say that I am dissatisfied with the clarity and brightness of the sound in stereo mode. Anonymous number 2 - so you have heard a Yamaha RX-V440 sounding good in stereo mode? Let's put it this way - right now it sounds worse than a $500 JVC all-in-one mini hi-fi I bought 5 years ago, and worse than my 15 year old, broken Marantz amp. Also - are Dali's a particularly bad/good/indifferent match for this amp?
Anonymous	Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 08:50 GMT Paul, This is Anon 1. Just went to the Dali website! Wow these are HUGE speakers. Don't think U can drive them with the Yamaha. If it is the Euphonic (I can only surmise which model), this has 89db sensitivity and 4 ohm impedance. I think with ribbon tweeters, they tend to be quite inefficient. I'm using the RVX1400 but only as a processor, mating it with a Parasound HCA1205A 5 channel power amp to drive my Wilson Benesch Actors (89db, 6 ohm). I previously used the Pass Labs Aleph 5 but since switching, I find a lot more headroom at high spls. I had an Eminent Tech LFT8 once (ribbon, woofer hybrid) and drove it with Aragon 4004Mk IIs (200 wpc RMS). Personally, I think U need to add on an amp to do your speakers justice. Cheers
Martin Ross New member Username: Martinross Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 19:33 GMT Paul, This is Anon 2. I've heard the Yamaha sound good in stereo, using Acoustic Energy Evo 1 bookshelf speakers (8ohm)I'm not familiar with Dali speakers, they may need more amplification to drive them as suggested by Anon 1 These are probably dumb questions, but are you sure that in the receiver settings: -Your fronts are set to large? -Set to 4 speakers, no centers or sub? -The impedance is set correctly? -The speaker levels (I think there is a level button on the remote) are adjusted? -The cd input setting for digital or analog input is correct? And if you conect your dvd player using RCA (analog) cables, make sure to change the digital out setting in the dvd player setup menu as well as changing the receiver cd input setting. -Martin
Anonymous	Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 09:56 GMT My Yamaha 440 sounds surprisingly good in stereo using Monitor Audio bookshelf 6-ohm (90db) speakers! Like what Martin posted, double check the settings - speaker size/level/number, impedance, LFE (should be set to MAIN if you are not using a subwoofer). If stereo sound is still the same after all the adjustments, then you've probably got a lemon. Have it replaced right away!
Anonymous	Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 09:58 GMT My Yamaha 440 sounds surprisingly good in stereo using Monitor Audio bookshelf 6-ohm (90db) speakers! Like what Martin posted, double check the settings - speaker size/level/number, impedance, LFE (should be set to MAIN if you are not using a subwoofer). If stereo sound is still the same after all the adjustments, then you've probably got a lemon. Have it replaced right away!
Anonymous	Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 10:07 GMT sorry for the double post. there was an error message after my first post and i thought it didn't get through
James Lee New member Username: Edison Post Number: 156 Registered: 12-2003	Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 14:02 GMT Paul, You know that by law, all the stores have to give refund for 2weeks also (not exactly sure of the duration) if you wanted to return it. Surround receivers don't do music well - moany are not happy with the sound of music from them, and get a separate amp for music, or go with a few that do music ok. NAD, onkyo (upper model TX-DS696, or this one : http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=101502 or the outlaw at audiogon.com : http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?miscrcvr&1076599621 Yammy don't get good reviews from the pros. I would take it back - they will give you money back even reluctantly. It's your toy for at least a few years - it should give you pleasure and not frowns everytime you play music. You can do much better for the money if you make an informed choice in shopping from the pros - like this sight for instance- http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/buyersguide_list.asp?category=AMP&subcategory=MULTI

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