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Bronze Member Username: RlschneckPost Number: 32 Registered: Apr-04 | Hello everyone, I just got my receiver and I finished hooking everything up to it last night. I immediately started playing around with it, trying different kinds of music as well as movies. It didn't seem to be working correctly however. The sound was coming almost exclusively from the center channel, the fronts were barely doing anything, the subwoofer had to be turned all the way up in order to notice any added bass, and the rear channels weren't producing anything. Please forgive my ignorance, but this is the first receiver that I have owned. I tried messing around with the settings, and I was able to go into the speaker setup on the main menu and increase the fronts to +10db, the sub to +10db, and I reduced the center to -5db. I also increased the surrounds to +10db, but they still produced no sound. Also, within the surround mode (not in the main menu), I put the center channel to "small", the fronts to "large", the surrounds to "large", and the subwoofer to "LFE." Am I going about this the wrong way? The subwoofer connection is definitely right (LFE), and maybe the subwoofer just isn't that loud. That's okay, I can live with that, but my fronts should definitely be kickin' a little bit more a$$ than they are. And the surrounds should be working. I'm sure the problem is in the settings, and that it's purely my lack of experience with receivers that is causing this problem. The AVR330 is a 7.1 receiver, but i am currently only running 5 speakers (and a sub, i am planning to upgrade to 7.1 later). Do you think that has something to do with it?? Thank you! |
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Silver Member Username: GeekboyNewport, RI United States Post Number: 367 Registered: Dec-03 | Ryan: did you run EzSet? While it's not the best at tuning your soundfield, using EzSet for your initial settings will greatly improve the way your system sounds over just taking it out of the box and plugging it in. (You can get better settings by using your own SPL Meter, but it is not necessary.) Depending on your speakers, you may want to revisit the small versus large settings. You shouldn't need your speaker settings to be at +10dB in the Speaker Adjustments menu. +10dB is pretty high (~8 [2**3] x the power at +0dB). EzSet should help you immensely with this. It will level out the speakers settings for all your surround speakers and subwoofer. Please visit page 23 in the H/K AVR-330's manual and follow the procedures in EzSet. Then let us know how it's sounding. Note, that after you run EzSet, you can still make some manual adjustments if you like. EzSet will give you a baseline at a reference point of 75dB. |
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Silver Member Username: GeekboyNewport, RI United States Post Number: 368 Registered: Dec-03 | Ryan: also, depending on what you're listening too, they'll be different modes which the receiver will auto-detect. Were you watching a DVD at the time? If so, the receiver should have automagically -- if you're using a digital connection -- determined the surround format (DTS, DD, ProLogic, etc) and adjust the processing accordingly. Still, please be sure to run EzSet first. |
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Bronze Member Username: RlschneckPost Number: 33 Registered: Apr-04 | Ahhh, EzSet sounds like the perfect tool for a novice like me. I will definitely do that, but do you know what exactly it does, b/c i am curious why i couldn't find the manual solution, since I did thouroughly search the menus. Do you own an AVR330? Also, the issue of the surrounds not working is bothersome. I think it has something to do with the fact that I am only running 5.1 on a 7.1 receiver. Can the AVR330 detect which speakers are hooked up and which are not?? Because I thought that it would just send the signal out to whatever speakers were hooked up. Presently I have the rear speakers, in my 5.1 setup, hooked up to the "surround back" inputs, could that be the problem? B/c the label for that set of inputs actually says "SB/MULTI" perhaps I need to somehow tell the receiver that it is "SB" and not "MULTI" right?? Thank you, geekboy, you are the man!! |
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Silver Member Username: GeekboyNewport, RI United States Post Number: 370 Registered: Dec-03 | Ryan: I have the H/K AVR-525. Also, you may have your surrounds plugged into the wrong connections! If you only have the 5.1 surround settings, then you should connect the speakers to the the SURROUND terminals on the back. Do not connect them so SB / MULTI as those are for the rear surround speakers or 2nd zone. Let me know how you're doing. Also, in the box, y ou should have found a "Quick Start" guide. It's also available on-line at http://www.harmankardon.com. |
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Bronze Member Username: RlschneckPost Number: 34 Registered: Apr-04 | Yes, I was just paroosing the harman/kardon site and found the quick start guide. That will be very helpful, I don't think that was in the box... weird. Anyway, I only have 5.1 now, but I plan on upgrading to 7.1 later. The "surrounds" that I have now, will be used as rears in my 7.1 system. So, in anticipation of this, I have mounted them on the wall in the rear. So, when I was hooking up my system, I thought i would hook those speakers up to the "surround back" inputs, since the speakers ARE in the back. It doesn't work, so I guess that's wrong. But my theory is that if I go through the "quick start" procedures and tell it that I have 7 channels, then they would work even though they are hooked up to the "SB" inputs. Oh, and another thing that I thought of: I am currently using RCA outputs from my dvd player (xbox) to the receiver, so my audio is coming in from the analog input. Maybe that's why it doesn't sound so good, b/c I was using Dolby PL II. Perhaps Dolby PL II cannot interpret the analog input?? Perhaps I should be using Logic 7?? Thanks again, geekboy, you have been extraordinarily patient and knowledgeable! |
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Silver Member Username: GeekboyNewport, RI United States Post Number: 371 Registered: Dec-03 | Ryan (that's your name, right? I keep calling your Ryan!) Okay. When you setup a 7.1 system, your system won't use the extra "surround back" speakers in normal circumstances. That is, under the normal Dolby Digital, DTS and ProLogic surround decoding modes, those 2 surround back speakers will be idle (off). That's because there's nothing in the decoded (matrixed) soundtrack to send to them. You would have to have a Dolby Digital EX, or DTS ES encoded soundsource, OR, use the Harman Kardon's patented Logic 7 mode to hear something out of those speakers. If you have a 5.1 setup, you need to connect the surround speakers to the surround jacks and not the SB / MULTI jacks. Thanks for listing how your DVD player is connected to your receiver. Using the RCA outputs from your Xbox is only going to yield analogue audio which can only have Dolby Prologic encoded material on it. You will need to get advanced AV pack or better to get the optical audio output. This will allow you to get the B E S T audio from your Xbox (with DVD or games) -- this is in comparison to the analogue connection. For the best sound on the H/K AVR-330, I'd use the Logic 7 surround mode over the DPL II mode. Because you have your speakers setup incorrectly for a 5.1 speaker setup, that's probably why you're having difficulty hearing anything from those rear speakers. |
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Bronze Member Username: RlschneckPost Number: 35 Registered: Apr-04 | Yes, my name is Ryan. You've answered some of my newbie questions in the past, and I thank you for it! Your advice is always top-notch. I understand that the reason that my rears remain idle is that the source is not coded to use the rear channel, that makes sense. Does the AVR330 have everything it needs to handle 7.1 coded sources, e.g. Dolbly Digital, DTS 7.1, etc.? It does, right? I will eventually be getting a new DVD player, but in the meantime, I suppose I will just use Logic 7. Should I use Logic 7 for music as well? Because, shouldn't the receiver be able to just put out the same signal to every speaker that's hooked up, regardless of the coding of the source? That would be nice for music, is there a mode like that? Thank you!!!! -Ryan |
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Silver Member Username: GeekboyNewport, RI United States Post Number: 373 Registered: Dec-03 | Ryan: thanks for the kind words. My name is Darrin. A pleasure to help you. Okay, back to business. The H/K AVR-330 has Dolby Digital EX and DTS-ES which allow you to use 6.1/7.1 discrete source materials. The H/K AVR-330 also includes DTS:Neo 6 which is an emulator like Dolby Prologic II (DPL II). Logic 7 (created by Harman Kardon) is another format with an emulation mode for 5.1/7.1 surround. All of these matrixed surround processing formats, Logic 7 will probably make more use of your 7.1 surround system (once you actually get it to 7.1!). You can use Logic 7 for music too, if you like. It will attempt to create a nice soundfield using all the speakers that are configured for your system... be it 5.1 or 7.1. That's the best you can do. I like DTS:Neo 6 sometimes for music. I generally don't like any surround processing when listening to music. When doing critical music listening, I use stereo only. |
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Bronze Member Username: RlschneckPost Number: 36 Registered: Apr-04 | Hi Darrin, It's nice to make your acquaintance. I hope my questions are not too inane for you. But, I am a huge fan of electronics and I have only recently had the budget to truly appreciate them. So, a regular music CD is only coded in stereo, yes? If so, the only way to get the sound coming out of all speakers is to use one of these emulators, right? Okay, I suppose I always thought that there was some generic mode that would put out the same signal to all speakers. For instance, let's just say that I want to use a microphone and have my voice come out of all speakers. Now, the microphone is certainly not digital, so is there some "generic mode" as I have come to call it, or should I still just use an emulator such as Dolby PL II, Logic 7, DTS:Neo6, etc.? Thanks for all of your help! I am going to go do my EzSet now, and then I will tell you how it sounds! Best Regards, Ryan |
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Silver Member Username: GeekboyNewport, RI United States Post Number: 376 Registered: Dec-03 | Ryan: no, there's no generic mode to do that. For what you're trying to do, probably only Logic 7 will work best. You'll have to see what sounds better to you. I like that DTS:Neo 6 sometimes myself. Good luck with your settings! |
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Silver Member Username: GeekboyNewport, RI United States Post Number: 378 Registered: Dec-03 | Ryan: just another thing. A regular CD contains two channels of digital information. The music generally recorded on these CDs is done at a sampling rate of 44.1kHz. Stereo mode is easy. CD provides two discrete audio channels so stereo audio fits nicely here. Place the left audio on one channel and the right audio on the other channel. There you go. Matrixed mode requires an encoder (during recording) and decoder (during playback). Using Dolby ProLogic, the producers of the CD -- or any two channel audio recording destination -- can matrix in a center and "rear surround" speakers by phasing in audio onto the two-channel soundtrack. For the rear surround speakers, they record the surround information 180 degrees out of phase from the left and right audio. For the center, it's combined information present on both the right and left channels in-phase. Not that complex when you think about it. Dolby Laboratories revolutionized the sound we heard in Movie Theaters and later in our homes. (I remember my first Dolby ProLogic Surround processor! It was in 1988 and it was awesome! I couldn't believe that listening to stereo VHS tapes could be so much fun!) |
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Bronze Member Username: RlschneckPost Number: 38 Registered: Apr-04 | hello again darrin, so, i did the EzSet yesterday and it would not put the sound to the rear surrounds. so i called the h/k tech support line and they told me that the receiver does actually know whether the mid surrounds are connected or not. so they told me to connect my rear surrounds to the surround inputs (instead of the "SB" input that we were talking about) and then it will work. which is just what you recommended. so, in short, you were right, but i had to test out my theory...hahaha! anyway, i will reconnect tonight and then it should work. so, as per our earlier discussion, any of the emulators should put sound to all of the speakers, right? that would include prologic? or not, since i am using analog (RCA) inputs? in other words, which modes require a decoder/digital input?? I'm sorry I don't mean to bombard you with nagging questions, perhaps I should just stick with the Logic 7 until I get my new DVD player. One more REALLY quick question, then I promise to stop pestering you: I have my subwoofer hooked up through the singular RCA LFE jack using one half of a set of monster audio cables, is that sufficient, or should i really go out and get a dedicated subwoofer cable?? Also, I see a lot of posts telling people that they have to enable the subwoofer through their receiver's settings, for the h/k avr's that's the same as putting the subwoofer to LFE right? Thank you for all of your help! -Ryan |
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Bronze Member Username: ShankPittsburgh, PA Post Number: 48 Registered: Aug-04 | R. Schneck, are you running this with the RF-25's? If so, I can tell you how i have my system setup when i get home. |
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Bronze Member Username: RlschneckPost Number: 39 Registered: Apr-04 | friggin' sweet!!! pardon my language, but i know that you and i have similar setups so that would be a great help. like i was telling geekboy (aka darrin), this is the first receiver i have owned, so i'm new to this stuff. prior to this i always just had a stereo with stock speakers. anyway, i have my xbox (which is currently serving as my dvd player and cd player until i get a new dvd player) hooked up through regular RCA inputs. so, darrin was telling me that the only way to get the sound to be presented in a 5.1 format is to use one of the emulators. so, i was curious which modes are emulators (i.e. do NOT need decoders/digital inputs) and which modes are not (i.e. DO need decoders/digital inputs). he recommended that i use Logic 7 until i get my new dvd player. oh and yes, i am running rf-25's, rc-25, rsx-4's, and a rw-8 sub. also, do you have an opinion on the cable for the sub? i am currently just using the one cable off of a regular set of audio cables (monster RCA audio cables), should i get a dedicated sub cable? i'm guessing that i definitely should? Thanks Shank! you can call me Ryan, by the way... |
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Bronze Member Username: ShankPittsburgh, PA Post Number: 50 Registered: Aug-04 | Ryan, I have a avr230, rf-25's, and an 8" subwoofer aswell (a polk). I have all the speakers set to small, and i have the crossover (X-Over mode in the speaker setup menu) for the Left/Right (fronts) set to 60Hz. I have different center's and surrounds than you, but based on the spec's for your center and surround, i'd set the center x-over for 80 Hz, and the surround x-over for 100 Hz. As far as the db levels for each speaker (channel adjust menu), i have all my channels level at 0db's, just so happens this sounds good for my setup. But these settings are gonna depend a lot on your setup/room/etc. If your sub has a volume adjustment on it (i think it should), i would set the subwoofer level to 0db on the receiver and adjust the subwoofer level from the nob on the subwoofer (maybe your wife or someone else can do this for you while you listen). In regards to the subwoofer phasing and physical placment of the subwoofer, this will depend alot on your room and setup. Usually it takes a little while to to get everything setup exactly how you like it. So just configure the stuff as best you can initially (like using ezset for the channel db levels) then just watch movies and listen to music to adjust it as you like. If i were you, and you don't have a dvd player yet or a true discreet/digital surround source, i'd just work on getting the l/r + subwoofer sounding good together. Then you can use that as a reference point for configuring the sourround and center channels when you get your dvd player. As far as the subwoofer cable, i think the RCA cables should be just fine, unless your subwoofer is far away from your receiver and the subwoofer signal is being interfered with. Otherwise, my bet is, spending extra money on a subwoofer cable is a waste, buy a dvd or something useful instead. |
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Bronze Member Username: RlschneckPost Number: 41 Registered: Apr-04 | Shank, That's good advice. i've been messing with the menu on my new receiver for a while, and i have not seen the menu for manually setting the X-over's. I know exactly what you mean about the large and small, though. Now, I know that all of this is a matter of opinion and that it greatly depends on the acoustics of the given room/setup, but I really do want your opinion. That said, I am wondering if setting all of the speakers to small is a good idea... doesn't that mean that the receiver will not send any bass to those speakers, opting instead to filter all of the bass to the subwoofer? What I did, and again I am seeking your advice on this, was to set the fronts and center to large, and the surrounds to small. I am guessing that you set all of yours to small so that you could manually choose the X-over for your speakers?? Actually, I think that maybe I have stumbled across the X-over menu... I remember thinking that it looked complicated and that I should leave it alone, hahaha! So, here's another question: Is it necessary to set all of the speakers to small in order to manually set the X-over's? Or can you set them to either and still adjust the X-over as you please. I would think that you should put everything to large, that way the bass is definitely sent to the speakers, but limited by your X-over settings? In other words, wouldn't the 'small' setting negate your X-over settings (by restricting the bass from being sent to the speakers at all)? Or is it the case that once you set the X-over mode, those settings become the over-riding rule-set by which the receiver works?? Hmmmm..... I really don't know, but I think that these considerations may be very important. Thank you for all of your advice!! Best Regards, Ryan |
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Bronze Member Username: ShankPittsburgh, PA Post Number: 52 Registered: Aug-04 | The x-over setting also can be set with the speakers set to large. However, this means that the frequencies below the x-over will be sent not only to the subwoofer, but also the regular speakers as well. This would be fine if the x-over was more fine grained so you could get good blending. However this isn't the case, you only have options for the xover for 40, 60, 80, 100, and 120 Hz. Thus if you set your x-over to 60 and the speaker to large, then you'll hear a deffinent over emphasis of frequences in the 40-60 Hz range (esp if the music makes use of this frequency heavily). The rf-25's go down to around 45 Hz. This is why i recomend setting it to small, so the bass notes in the 40-60 hz range don't sound boomy. But maybe this is what you think sounds better. |