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New member Username: HteacPost Number: 6 Registered: 12-2003 | I have made a decision on the speakers for my Home theater. They'll be Monitor Audio Gold Ref. 60, MA GRFX for surround, the MA GR center and the MA FB 210 Sub. The seperates I've been looking at (Aragon 2005 + Anthem AVM20) will blow a hole in my budget. I'm wondering if I can get away with Yamaha's Receive Z1 or some other good receiver out there. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks everyone. |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 52 Registered: 12-2003 | I use 2 pairs of Monitor Audio Gold Ref 10's, the MA GR center, and switched the 210 sub to the HSU VTF-3. Although the 210 is fine. I prefer the GR 10's as surrounds as I find them much better for music and plenty good for movies. Obviously the GRFX are made for the movies, but I am sure they are fine for music. Anyway--I love the Monitor Audio Gold Reference series. I run this system off of the Pioneer 49TXi and it works great. I am sure the Yammie will be fine--although some say the Yammie amp sections can sound a bit strident. If that is so--it would make a bad match, as the upper end of the MA's are pretty lively. By the way, what dvd player and tv do you have--or are you planning on getting them? That and the size of your room will effect what receiver you should get. Let me know and I --and others--will give you their opinions. |
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New member Username: HteacPost Number: 7 Registered: 12-2003 | Greg, I appreciate your advice. The size of the room is 25x24 and the height is 9'. My DVD is panasonic rp91k and the tv is just a regular tv I got years ago. As far as receivers go , I'm pretty much open to suggestions. Please advice on what will give me the best sound for music / movies. 60% music and 40% movies. |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 54 Registered: 12-2003 | I presume eventually you will get some kind of HDTV, as you have more than the beginnings of a great surround system. Great speakers. The Yamaha RXV-Z1 is a fine receiver and have seen it priced under $2k--but many say it has a bit of a strident sound. If you go along with that philosophy then you would be better off with a number of other receivers--particularly one of the Pioneer Elites. Currently the top of the line Pioneer Elite is the 49TXi (I have this model). I have seen it at etronics.com delivered for under $2600. Besides being beautiful, it has more power than the Yamaha and certain features that the Yamaha doesn't that effect performance more. It has MCCAC, which is a system that balances the speakers both sonically and acoustically when you put the included microphone where you usually sit. It works amazingly. Plus, if you ever want to play SACD/DVD-Audio discs to the best of their ability, the 49Txi has i-link (firewire) which can connect to their universal dvd players which also have i-link, such as the 47AVi (street price $595 or less) and soon a new fancy one--59AVi that is built for the future with firewire connects and HDMI (which is a combination of DVI-D for digital video and a digital audio connection). Eventually the best HDTV sets will all have HDMI. Also this new dvd player has a chip that converts all standard dvd discs (480 pixels) to HDTV quality---a biggie when you get HDTV. Of course, you can wait until January 2004 until the new Pioneer Elite 59TXi gets released. It will basically be an updated 49TXi. I am sure it will be a bit more expensive though, so if the 49TXi is already pushing your budget, either get the 49txi or the 47TX without firewire, but has the same amplification. Those can be had at $1600. Much depends on how much you are willing to spend and how ready for the future you want to be--that is if you plan on buying an HDTV. Of course, if you are worried about power and buying separates -- I will see what fits well in the sub $3,000 area that works well. |
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New member Username: HteacPost Number: 8 Registered: 12-2003 | Thanks Greg. Are there any seperates (pre-pro + Amp) combo out there for around $3000.00 ? Ideally, I'd want an Amp that's rated 200W x 5. Thanks. |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 55 Registered: 12-2003 | We could get the Outlaw Audio 755 for $1299 which is 5 x 200 watts and the Outlaw Audio 950 preamp for $799. This is an incredible bargain at $2100 and you get it online with a 30 day trial. I have a connection for a demo Aragon 2007 which is THX Ultra 2 certified (7 x 200 watts) list $3000 and the Aragon Stage One THX Ultra 2 certified (which comes with the Philips Pronto remotge--great one) at list $4,000. Could get them both at 45% off if bought together $3850. I know this is out of your ideal range--but it is a helluva deal and they are gorgeous. Klipsch bought that high end company a couple of years ago and you can check them out on the Klipsch website. Anyway, the Outlaws are excellent. If you just wanted to get the Aragon 2007 I could probably get that for you at $2,000. So that with the Outlaw preamp would be under $3K. The Outlaws are a great deal and they physically look alike. The Aragon amp looks like it belongs in the Museum of Modern Art---might look a bit out of place next to the Outlaw preamp-or most any other preamp for that matter. |
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New member Username: HteacPost Number: 9 Registered: 12-2003 | Thanks Greg. This forum has been very helpful. How does the Aragon stage one compare with Anthem AVM 20? I seem to like the AVM and may combine it with the Aragon Amp. A little over my budget but I want to have a good one once and for all. Any advice on where I can purchase the Monitor audio speakers at a reasonable price? I contacted 2 dealers in my area and their prices are way over what I can get on the net. Thanks everyone. |
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New member Username: HteacPost Number: 10 Registered: 12-2003 | Also, can anyone comment on the Anthem AVM 20 + Anthem MCA 50 Amp Combo ? Thanks. |
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New member Username: HteacPost Number: 11 Registered: 12-2003 | Also, can anyone comment on the Anthem AVM 20 + Anthem MCA 50 (200W x 5) combo? Will this work well the Monitor Audio Golf Ref. 60 ? Thanks again |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 57 Registered: 12-2003 | I can't see why it wouldn't work very well.It will probably cost around $4400 online--hopefully that includes warranty from those online dealers. Having seen the power graphs, 200 watts is overly optimistic---I would say at best it clips at 185. Not that there is anything wrong with that. That is plenty powerful. The Aragon clips at over 225 watts. But both are good. The Anthem looks much better than the Outlaw and the Aragon looks much better than the Anthem. How important that is--is up to you. I have top of the line Pioneer Elites and Aragons at home as I have two different set-ups. I am happy with both--and I am sure if you get the Anthem you will be happy with them. Just use the Anthem remote first before you buy one. If you are not happy with it you will find that you won't want to use it. Of course, you could always buy a Philips Pronto remote if that one gives you problems. All these issues are matters of preferences. The Anthem will work fine with the Monitor Audio--just as the Aragon would. I am sure in a blind ABX test no one would be able to tell which one was playing a to a statistically significant level. Heck, I would say the same is true of the Pioneer Elite. I have switched out the Aragon and the 49TXi and had my brother do the switching and I did the same for him. Neither of us could tell the difference as long as we were playing at the identical db's. All that said--if the Anthem makes you happy--go buy it. |
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New member Username: HteacPost Number: 12 Registered: 12-2003 | Greg, So maybe I should combine the Anthem AVM 20 with the Aragon AMP. What do you think about that ? thanks. |
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New member Username: HteacPost Number: 13 Registered: 12-2003 | Greg, Thanks for the sound advice. Going for seperates will be a bit too much for me financially. I'll combine the 49txi with the MA gold ref. 60s. Any good sources to purchase Speakers? I called Kiefs and their prices were not that competitive. Should I go for the FB 210 Sub from (monitor audio) or I'll be better off with the HSU VTF-3R ? Thanks a million. |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 58 Registered: 12-2003 | Aloof--- The best prices I have seen online are probably similar to what you have seen. GR 60's $3195 GRFX $1595 center $890 GR 20's $2395 GR10's $1490 The 210's are pretty good, but I would prefer the HSU VTF-3's. I would ask the online dealers to toss in another 5% discount if you buy everything, including the 210's. I have e-mailed someone I know online about the MA's. I am waiting for a reply--hopefully they aren't on vacation. I think a good alternative might be a pair of G20's and a pair of G10's (instead of the GRFX. I think they are basically as good for movies and much better for music. I love the G10's. The G10's are so perfectly matched to the center that they are one of only 2 or 3 speakers I know that sound as good on-axis as off-axis. An interesting combo might be 2 pr G10's, the center, and 2 pr of HSU VTF-2's. The 2 subs would remove the critical placement of the subwoofer. Although subs aren't very directional (hard to tell where the sound is coming from)--having 2 also removes that possibility, plus 2 VTF-2's make more and better bass than 1 VTF-3. You can call HSU and ask them--I am pretty sure they would agree with me. You might want to wait a month or so until the 59TXi comes out. I am thinking of getting the 59TXI, although I already have the 49TXi. Probably silly on my part--I love the 49TXi. And I love the way it hooks up to the Pioneer Elite 47AVi with i-link and automatically recognizes whatever disc you put in and I have seen this universal model at $595. Of course, if you buy the GR 20's instead of the GR60's you would save enough money to get the 59TXi and the 59AVi for when you get an HDTV with DVI or preferably HDMI. Pioneer will be releasing plasma and rear projection sets with HDMI connections shortly. Whatever decision you make, you will have a great system. I will get back to you. Greg |
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New member Username: HteacPost Number: 14 Registered: 12-2003 | Thanks Greg. Glad to inform everyone that I made the jump. I placed an order for MA Gold ref. 60 $3100/pair MA Gold ref. 10 $1425/pair MA GR Center - $795 I'll order 1 HSU VTF-2 Sub for now. I can get the Pioneer 49txi for $2449. Any idea of what the 59xi will retail for? If it's over $3000 then it will probably make sense for one to consider seperates? Again Anthem AVM 20 + MCA 50 maybe. Your comments are welcome. Thanks. |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 61 Registered: 12-2003 | Aloof-- I am happy and proud of the way you made your decision. You got an excellent deal on everything. Possibly the only minor difference I might have done would be to have ordered the GR 20's instead of the GR 60's--just to save you the money to buy the second HSU VTF-2, if you decide it would be useful. I would be suprised if the 59TXi is discounted below $3,000 for the first few months. But I have no crystal ball. Your system will sound great in stereo and surround. I would say you have done one of the most careful and well thought out purchases I have seen. I wish I had a crystal ball to tell you what the 59TXi would sell for--but it is unlikely to be under $3K when it comes out at first. I am confident the 49txi is plenty powerful and believe it or not has some advantages over the Anthem. The i-link, the MCCAC acoustic/speaker set-up, easier to use, it is beautiful, and from personal experience with it and the Gold Reference speakers--they sound GREAT together. Also, I think you should consider getting the 47AVi or the 59Avi dvd player when it is released within a month. They are made for the i-link (firewire) connections and they are both universal and act synergistically with each other. If you need to ask me other questions you can also contact me at gchemie@aol.com |
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New member Username: HteacPost Number: 15 Registered: 12-2003 | Greg, Again, thanks for all the help. The following is from Monitor Audio's site and I'm just wondering if the HSU VTF-2 will stick out as described below. =============================== The Problem with most subwoofers, is that... Sonically, most stick out like a sore thumb. Most play deep bass OK, but ask them to be articulate. Most will get mushy and sound slow when presented with rapid detailed bass information. You won't find this problem with the FB 110 or FB 210. ================== |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 64 Registered: 12-2003 | Aloof-- That is marketting--not reality. There is nothing wrong with the 210, but when I had it shipped along with my GR10's and center channel which were in that beautiful "Rosemah" wood--it was in plain black. I just think it is overpriced for its performance. Getting one or two HSU VTF-2's are just better. Maybe their marketters are talking about cheaper $300 subwoofers and less where you almost never get REAL subwoofer sound. I just got an answer from one of my online friends that sells equipment. Too bad you placed your order. They are great people too--last year one woofer was bad I sent it back they replaced it and paid the shipping. They stand behind what they sell--rare for discount online dealers. Anyway there pricing is as follows: Monitor Audio GR60 $3000 Monitor Audio GR10 $1300 Monitor GR Center $750 But I guess you ordered already. Oh well. Anyway they tell me that the Pioneer 59TXi receiver won't be available until Jan 15th or a little later--they won't know pricing until then. Pioneer keeps everything a mystery. I am confiednt it won't be $3,000 or less. At the beginning probably all dealers will sell all they have--people will be lucky for the first month or two to get them at $3500, unless you have a close relationship with the dealer. Then if the dealer doesn't come down on the 59txi after I have spent over $5,000 in speakers at their store, I would politely tell them--too bad--I was going to buy an expensive Pioneer Elite Plasma or rear projection set and now I will go to this other dealer that said they would give me a great deal. Too bad we couldn't do more business. You'd be suprised at how effective this is--besides, from my viewpoint--it is the truth. I would go somewhere else and buy it. Anyway, you will be very happy with the 49txi. It is great, powerful, beautiful, and perfect for these speakers. And I can use the remote easily, which for someone that can easily be befuddled on these things is incredibly important. |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 65 Registered: 12-2003 | Aloof-- That is marketting--not reality. There is nothing wrong with the 210, but when I had it shipped along with my GR10's and center channel which were in that beautiful "Rosemah" wood--it was in plain black. I just think it is overpriced for its performance. Getting one or two HSU VTF-2's are just better. Maybe their marketters are talking about cheaper $300 subwoofers and less where you almost never get REAL subwoofer sound. I just got an answer from one of my online friends that sells equipment. Too bad you placed your order. They are great people too--last year one woofer was bad I sent it back they replaced it and paid the shipping. They stand behind what they sell--rare for discount online dealers. Anyway there pricing is as follows: Monitor Audio GR60 $3000 Monitor Audio GR10 $1300 Monitor GR Center $750 But I guess you ordered already. Oh well. Anyway they tell me that the Pioneer 59TXi receiver won't be available until Jan 15th or a little later--they won't know pricing until then. Pioneer keeps everything a mystery. I am confiednt it won't be $3,000 or less. At the beginning probably all dealers will sell all they have--people will be lucky for the first month or two to get them at $3500, unless you have a close relationship with the dealer. Then if the dealer doesn't come down on the 59txi after I have spent over $5,000 in speakers at their store, I would politely tell them--too bad--I was going to buy an expensive Pioneer Elite Plasma or rear projection set and now I will go to this other dealer that said they would give me a great deal. Too bad we couldn't do more business. You'd be suprised at how effective this is--besides, from my viewpoint--it is the truth. I would go somewhere else and buy it. Anyway, you will be very happy with the 49txi. It is great, powerful, beautiful, and perfect for these speakers. And I can use the remote easily, which for someone that can easily be befuddled on these things is incredibly important. |
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New member Username: HteacPost Number: 16 Registered: 12-2003 | Greg, I managed to get my dealer to match the prices partially. I sent you a mail... Thanks |
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Hudson Unregistered guest | Hi Aloof, I am looking at the exact same set up and about to place my order for the MA's as well.. I'm also having the exact same issue with electronics.. Greg also counseled me... What di dyou land up gettting for the electronics..?? I am trying to keep it in the 4k range and am thinking about Integra seperates (but I hear they might be bright), B&K seperates (but I hear the product is not my not be as technologically advanced as the Integra)... I have thought about a high end reciever but right or wrong right now I'd really like to get into some mid level seperates... (in the 4kish range.) Look forward to hearing what your world looks like.. Hudson |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 138 Registered: 12-2003 | I certainly don't recall ever saying the Integra's are bright sounding. I thought the new Integra AV preamp looked nice--physically and spec-wise. The amp didn't appear to be a bargain. But if you like it --it should be fine. I just think you are paying a premium on the amp for it being digital. The specs only indicate it being 120 watts a channel with 2-channels driven. How come there is no spec with 5 or 7 channels driven? And at rated power at 1 khz it has 1% THD--not an impressive spec, although I am sure you will rarely, if ever, hit 120 watts. But then I am not sure, because they refuse to say what is the top wattage with 5 or 7 channels driven simultaneously. So far the current digital amps available seem to have a big output drop with multiple channels driven. Hopefully they will cure that problem in the not too distant future. Outlaw Audio, Adcoms, ATI's, and some others will give you more power for less money. The amp is just to make the signal louder. I think a point I made was that a Pioneer Elite 49TXi receiver was tested as having an output of 148 watts/channel at 5 channels driven simultaneously---and you get an excellent preamp and amp section that is THX Ultra 2 certified. But there are excellent separates too that won't break the bank. |
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Marius Drexel Unregistered guest | Hi aloff, Just wanna share my experience. I suggest you don't match MA series with Yamaha since they won't gel. While Yammy maybe great for movies, especially on AZ1 caliber however its character is on the safe side therefore it won't bring out the best of MA. I had AX1 previously hooked up to Philips SACD1000 to run Multichannel SACD with 3 pairs of Silver 9i, 12i center, ASW 210 sub and a pair of Monitor 2 for front enhanced surround, I use QED silver anniversary biwire cables but the sound was neither here nor there. I couldn't really experience the high frequencies, even with SACD! as AX1 has a warm character. Finally i decided to sell it and now quite satisfied with Primare 7.1 processor/power system. Hope this help. Marius |
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Hudson Unregistered guest | Gregory, Sorry to imply I heard from you the Integra's might be bright...consolidating multiple view points. How about mixing a B&K amp.. (seems to have the horsepower) with the Integra Pre?? As an FYI i found a store with Monitor 60's and the Integras so i will go listen.. Also, Here is a recent review from Home theater Hi Fi ... seems to confirm your comments on power.. not really sure what to make of the overall review though.. comments appreciated.. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_1/integra-dtc-94-ssp-dta-94-amp-1-2004. html I also noticed on another post you were shopping for TV's.. I am between the Samsung DLP HLN567W, the 53" Pioneer Elite and Diamond Mitsubishi 55"... I realize that the jury is out on DLP but do you have any thoughts.. A |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 142 Registered: 12-2003 | I think the Integra AV pre-amp is a nice and advanced design. My main point on the Integra amp is that you are paying a big premium for digital amplification. If you are willing to pay the premium because you want matching Integra's with digital amplification--that is fine. It is incredibly rare when all channels are being driven hard at the same time anyway. Hopefully you can try the Integra's with the speakers first. __________________________- I've been torn on HDTV's. So few look good when playing non-HDTV material. In fact most look horrible as they accentuate the poor level of broadcasting. A shame all the broadcasters haven't upgraded to HDTV--and a nice wideband HDTV broadcast at that. Sadly, it looks like Toshiba is giving up on LCOS. I saw one and other than not the greatest contrast or brightness, the picture was so far better than anything else I had ever seen. Could be because the amount of pixels per inch is much more than anything else. Supposedly Intel may be making them available to other manufacturers and Sony was given rave reviews on a front projection LCOS-type design. Supposedly they are thinking of bringing it to a rear projection set-up. I heard the Samsung DLP is very good, particularly compared to other DLP sets. I am brain-cramped because the improvements are getting more rapid in the HDTV area that I keep putting it off. |
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Unregistered guest | I really don't understand where these comments come from about yamaha recievers especially the rx-z1 and rx-v1. I own an rx-v1 and it is definitely not strident in anyway. I notice alot of guys post about what they have heard other people say instead listening for themselves because the truth be told one mans brite can be another mans neutral another mans warmth could be another mans muddy and unclear. My point is whose to say ? unless some one does a good side by side comparison if possible. one must judge for oneself because certain people are biased toward certain equipment and or companies. I'm not trying to start anything by any means but it just gets riduculous sometimes. I'm not biased toward yamaha but it's just what I happened to like when I listened to it with what some people considered forward speakers and my hering is pretty good. |
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hudson Unregistered guest | Fair comment. It comes down to everyone's ear. It is very hard to find everything you want and do a side by side. On the tv thing... Samsung DLP is nice but has a lot of trouble with Greens... I compared that side by side with Pioneer Elite 53" rear projection... its over a thousand less and I think the picture is great.... besides the space thing I can't up with a good reason not to go this way. Hudson |
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New member Username: HawkPost Number: 109 Registered: 12-2003 | chubby: I agree--neither the RX-Z1 nor the RX-V1 are strident sounding. They are quite good as the bean counters allow them to take the financial shackles off for the top of the line. But in typical Japanese mass market company tradition, their flagship receiver is not indicative of the rest of the line. You cannot listen to the RX-V1, for instance, and extrapolate what an RX-V740 is going to sound like. When we speak of a strident sound coming from Yamaha, we are speaking of the main line of receivers, not their top of the line where "we have fixed everything" model. While you are no doubt correct that we describe these things in subjective terms and not everyone has the same scale, nevertheless, there is a situation in audio where a receiver can be tailored to sound a little bright by putting an emphasis in the upper mid-range (between 2-4Khz) and in the showroom this will make the receiver sound very detailed and expressive. For people who listen for 10 minutes (most consumers), it will seem so much better than the competition, they will say that model is the best and buy it. But then they take it home and start to use it for extended periods. Before long, this emphasis will grate on them and cause what is known as audio fatigue. This is what some refer to as being "strident" and Yamaha's have tended to have this charecteristic for several generations of their receiver products (but not in their flagship receivers which are rather warm and considerably smoother sounding). The worst to my ears was the RX-V630 (last year's model), which sounded like fingernails scraping a chalkboard. Now, the newest generation has been improved in this regard as Denon has caught up to Yamaha sales-wise and Yamaha was forced to respond by adjusting the sound charecteristics to sound more like Denon. I have spent many hours listening to various receivers, side by side, through many different speaker combinations. I am disabled, so I both have the time and use it as this is my hobby. Hudson is correct that it is often difficult to do side by sides as some brands are just never next to other brands. For instance, I have never come across a Marantz dealer who also had NAD so that I could compare those two brands side by side, but if you shop enough, you can extrapolate because you have compared two brands to a single third brand which becomes a reference brand. So one should listen and compare. Most of all, after you have shopped enough to know what sound you like, then you can trust your ears to select the sound that works best for you. I am a bit envious as you have a very fine receiver there and clearly you have what you want. I have often stated that our goal here is to help everyone get the sound that they want. No one brand is right for everyone, but many of us have had an opportunity to hear these receivers for extended periods and I would agree with Marius's comments that Yamaha and Monitor Audio generally make a very poor combo. I have not heard the RX-V1 with Monitors, but I have heard several other Yamaha models with Monitors and the sound is definitely strident sounding to me. |
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Unregistered guest | Understood but the point I was attempting to make is that most people say those things about yamaha receivers without even heard one. I had sold audio equipment for about seven years now. I have also heard people call the v1, and the z1 brite as well. So if you were for example to check just about every forum on the net you wood see exactly what I'm talking about, Yamaha also gets a bad reputation for having to many bells and whistles (nobody has to use them) and thats fine people are entitled to their opinions but to say that a companies flaship product sounds like crap (any companies flagship product is ridiculus)> See thats the advantage of being able to work around or with different recievers from the various companies ,you get to listen to them especially if it's a slow day. To say that another companies product sounds "tons" better than anothers product especially around the same price point is ridiculus I say this because every single one of these companies know what to do to put out a product to meet a specific price point and what speakers are going to be used with them. I hear extremely well my father used to work in the motorpool in the army, so I learned at an early age to care of my hearing so I did( never been to any concerts,which I guess is not a culture wise, My systems reference level is sat at 67db anything louder hurts my ears.I know that sounds crazy because I worked in audio chains (actually for a speaker company to) I had tissue in my ears the majority of the time. Also if you're biased toward a specific product(which I'm not)you will almost always choose that product in a comparison even if it's level matched. Thats why it's good to have blind testing which I've done as well . You also have to remember how is one supposed to deem whats accurate I personally use the human voice whether it be male or female or crickettes chirping normally subtle sounds that I'm familiar with. If you have a speaker thats lets say is darker sounding you take a brite or neutral amp and you mate it with them,If you have a brigther sounding speaker you mate it with a darker sounding amp. Let me give you an example one day an associate and myself had listened to a pair of mirage om 7's with a denon 4802 and a sony strda5 es. Now the mirages have garnered a reputation of being dark sounding but natural. I didn't care for the denon played through these speakers it was as if some one through a curtain over them. I was impressed with them through the sony though. Now on the other hand I was impressed with the denon through b&w's and not as mush with the sony,In other words it's all in matching The speakers are the most piece of equipment in the chain .Thats why the one truth in audio is that no one can tell what sounds good to you, you have to listen for yourself. No one ever said it was gonna be easy but a lot of people that give their opinions in forums readily make it more difficult than it has to be. I state again that one mans neutrality is anothers muddy or brite or vice versa. I'll give you another example sony probably gets it worse than any of the companies and thats bad because their mass market but they have made some nice sounding recievers in the 777es.strda5es,strda3es and the 90es although I admit they did have a couple of reliabilty isssues. If an amp is operating within it's limits I doubt that most people will be able to tell much of a difference in sound, but then you'll have thoughs that try in vain to notice a difference. Heres the thing though more often than not it's recording dependent. So you see to make a generalization is not doing anyone any good. |
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Unregistered guest | you guys have to excuse the spelling, didn't proof read |
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New member Username: HawkPost Number: 116 Registered: 12-2003 | chubby: It is a pleasure to trade posts with you--you are obviously well versed in this subject and your post is well reasoned. I agree the key is in the matching of the receiver with the speakers. When I suggest a Yamaha is rather bright sounding, it is not a value jusgement, but a characteristic that they buyer needs to account for when selecting speakers. Hence, matching a Yamaha with Klipsch speakers to me is not a good combination and likely to lead the buyer to live Munch's painting of "The Scream." Likewise, a very laid back speaker such as Paradigm to me is a horrible combination with a very dark and reserved sounding Harman/Kardon receiver, such as their AVR-525. In my view, this would lead to a very boring sounding system. Yet, in the proper combination, all of these units are good products. However, I don't know how you can assume most people who post have never heard the unit in question. I tend to read the posts and can often judge whether they know what they are talking about or whether they are just a "punter." If it is just someone showing their ignorance, it is usually best just ignored. If you don't rise to the bait, they will go away. If they do have a reasoned post, I may still disagree, but I don't think you can baldly assert that most don't know what they are talking about--after all, most people who post their opinion, at least on this forum, do so because they have a strong interest in this subject. So for instance, if someone suggests that a company's flagship product sounds like crap, perhaps they have heard it and they were wholly unimpressed. Not all flagship products are well executed. That was certainly my experience listening to the Onkyo TX-SR900. Later I learned Sound & Vision had bench tested one and found that the amp clipped at about 54 wpc (rated at 125 wpc x 7) with high distortion, so that may have accounted for what I heard. After all, people are judging a receiver also in the context of its cost. If the sound is no where commeasurate with the cost of the unit, perhaps it is crap, after all. Cheers! |
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Unregistered guest | Thanks I appreciate that, What I was saying was that or meant to say was that their are people that make comments about yamaha recievers without having heard one because of what they have heard others say about them and that most are indeed what you call "punters". especially if their biased and you can indeed tell .I didn't say that people that post don't know what their talking about or meant to imply that ( guess I should have clarified that a little better).I just said I thought it was ridiculus to say that another reciever at a particular price point or at the same price point sounds tons better, especially if their operating within their limits. I would never say that some ones opinion is wrong unless I had tangible facts to back up what I belive. nine times out of ten their going to use the same dac's or similar dac's not to say that all dac's sound the same, but the difference will not be as noticeable as the amp section. now their could definitely be a difference in the way that the amplifier section reacts with different speakers because we all know that impedance can change with frequency and impedence varies among speakers. I'm extremely happy that we can all have different systems if they were all the same it would be a boring hobby to be in. Most of the time I just look over the forums just for fun and almost never post, but it is indeed fun to read about how enthusiastic most people are about their systems. The 989ver 2 is the current flagship for onkyo (don't think I'm being a smarty when I said that, I know sometimes I come off that way but I really do not intend to). I'm just trying to come from a different perspective . I just think it takes the fun out of the hobby that we all enjoy. I've read a lot of your posts and I would not accuse you of that, you seem to be pretty well versed your self. and I will definitely say that price is not always a barometer of performance. |
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Dutch Unregistered guest | Hi Would the RX-Z1 (AZ-1 europe) a good match with Mirage ?(FRX-Nine) http://miragespeakers.com/PDFs/classic_manuals/FRx/FRx-9/FRX9brochure.pdf Any help is appreciated Dutch |