PSB Stratus Gold and Onkyo TX-SR600-Hawk etc. please help! Long Post!
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New member Username: FeminaziPost Number: 1 Registered: 12-2003 | I purchased my Onkyo receiver prior to getting the PSB Stratus Golds. I got a great deal on them, so I couldn't pass them up. The only problem is, the Onkyo is not meant to drive 4 Ohm speakers. It was doing fantastic until I put on an Alpine test CD, and the Onkyo left the party early. My speakers are: Main-PSB Stratus Gold 4 Ohms Centre:Kinima KC-1 8 Ohms Rears-Kinima Hi G1 8 Ohms Subwoofer-PSB Subsonic 7 I just purchased the Subsonic 7 and the Kinima Hi G1s as upgrades to my current sub and rears. I haven't set them up yet as I am concerned that the Onkyo is not up to the task anymore. It sounded great and was doing fine until I played that test CD, and then it just went into protect mode once I turned the volume up. I was told that I can set my Stratus Golds to small and let the Subsonic 7 do all of the low frequency work, would that work OK? I see that as a temporary solution, however, and not ideal. One problem that I have now with the Onkyo is that it does not have preamp connections, so I cannot hook up a seperate preamp to power the Stratus Golds seperate. I was told that I should just sell the Onkyo and get a Marantz or comparable receiver that has preamp outputs and then buy a preamp. I can't afford to buy a nice preamp and a receiver at this juncture, as even though I got a good deal on all of these speakers, I purchased them at around the same time as each other, so my bankbook is reeling a bit. I have read that the Yamaha HTR-5560 has preamp outputs and can also drive 4 Ohm speakers and 8 Ohm speakers at the same time as it has seperate impedance switches. I can go to Best Buy or another big box store to audition the Yamaha. What do you guys think? I have read on here that some guys think the Yamaha doesn't sound great, but I have also read that the speakers are more important than the receiver in sound reproduction. I really need some advice here and I am not a yuppie brand name guy, I really only care about the best solution for the money. I can upgrade to a nice preamp to power the Golds next year I assume. If I am powering the Golds with a preamp, would the sound still be influenced by the Yamaha? In case my email doesn't post properly, here it is: dspitzig@rogers.com Please email me, just in case I don't check this in time! Go easy on me, I am just getting into audio!  thanks, Darren |
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New member Username: GdawgPost Number: 5 Registered: 12-2003 | Darren, The Yamaha would be a great match with the PSB's. I would try the newer 5660 instead though. Where did you buy the Onkyo from, cant you just return it? My advice is, bring the Yamaha home and try it. |
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New member Username: FeminaziPost Number: 2 Registered: 12-2003 | I didn't buy the Onkyo from an authorized dealer, so the warranty does not apply. I bought it off of someone used, so I can only sell it to a shop or in some other fashion and use that money to buy another receiver. I wouldn't be surprised if the Onkyo ended up sounding a bit better, but the Yamaha seems to be the only affordable receiver that can do everything for me right now, except perhaps some Harmon Kardon receivers, but the ones in this price range are the very bottom of the line. Why doesn't Yamaha list the per channel output in 4 Ohms for the 5560 and 5660? It says the output is 75 and 85 I think at 8 Ohms, so I guess it is well over 100 when it is driving 4 Ohms. At least it is meant to drive 4 Ohms, and won't give up the ghost when asked to, haha! Does anyone else have an opinion or a suggestion on what to do in this situation? I am definately going to go to Best Buy tomorrow and pick up one of the Yamaha receivers to see how it works with the main speaker impedance switch set to 4 Ohms. I think it should work quite well. |
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New member Username: JohnnyPost Number: 12 Registered: 12-2003 | D. Spitzig, I agree with what everyone else has been saying. I just think that the Onkyo is way overmatched with your speakers. The PSB Stratus series is one of their top of the line models and are killer speakers. I think they retail at nearly $3000 per pair...while the receiver is only around $500. I would definately upgrade if you can. Those are kick a#s speakers and you need something nice to power them. If you don't like what you hear with the Yamaha at Best Buy, try going to Circuit City and listening to some HK models. I would also recommend NAD with PSB speakers. |
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New member Username: FeminaziPost Number: 3 Registered: 12-2003 | I definately plan on upgrading to an NAD in the future, but currently I just don't have the coin. What NAD model would do everything that is necessary and get the best out of the PSBs without totally destroying the bank? thanks, Darren. |
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New member Username: JohnnyPost Number: 13 Registered: 12-2003 | What is your budget? I need to know what your definition of "breaking the bank" is. |
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New member Username: FeminaziPost Number: 4 Registered: 12-2003 | Right now, I don't think I can go much higher than 500 bucks, so I might have to get something on clearance or with a cosmetic blemish. Does NAD even go that low on clearance? Is there an HK receiver that is in that price range that can fit the bill? I think that anything that I get now is going to be a holding pattern until I can properly drive the Golds. Having a preamp out will let me drive them with an NAD or similar preamp in the future. Sound doable? |
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New member Username: JohnnyPost Number: 15 Registered: 12-2003 | For that price, the only NAD in that price range is the T742. It is on closeout for $449 from www.saturdayaudio.com. It only has 50w x 5, but it also have preouts for future upgradability. And, the 50 watt power rating is on the conservative side. However, I am not sure how the 742 would do with 4 ohm speakers. If you can go a little higher, I have heard that the 752, the next step up, can handle 4 ohm speakers. I tink it can be had on closeout for around $700. In that price range, I have heard on another thread that you can find the HK 525 on closeout for around $550 (don't know where from). I think this would be your best bet as it has the most power and should have no problem with 4 ohm speakers (might want to call or email HK on this one to make sure though). I prefer the sound of NAD, but at this price range, I think that you would be better off going with the HK 525. Also...I am not real familiar with HK models...so I am not sure if it has preouts or not. |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 12 Registered: 12-2003 | Plenty of 8 ohm receivers don't do a great job on 4 ohm speakers--particularly if the speakers drop much below 4 ohms at some frequencies. A main reason to buy NAD receivers is that they work well with 4 ohm speakers. Conversely, since there are so many great 6 and 8 ohm speakers, you have a large selection of receivers to purchase at almost any price range. If I had 4 ohm speakers I'd either get a NAD, although Arcam, Rotel, and some say HK is okay with 4 ohms. But I'd get separates--like the Outlaw combo of the 950 pre-amp and the 7100 (7 x 100 watts--and works great with 4 ohm speakers, great power supply) is on sale at $1598 and gives you a 30 day free trial period. As Outlaw has discontinued their 1050 receiver, hopefully a new one is not to far off. They were great with 4 ohm speakers. When the new one comes out then NAD will have some heavy duty competition in their philosophical and practical operation and then some. The old 1050 won a ton of awards, but didn't have ProLogic II--a biggie if you like listening to cd's in surround (which I do--a lot!!). I hear their new subwoofer just got released, the LFM-1 for $579. Built by Outlaw engineers in concert with Dr. HSU. It looks like the model to beat at under $750--or maybe even $1,000. They even have a special--2 subs for $999. Many people like having 2 subs to smooth out the bottom end, so placement isn;t that critical. Or you can find a friend and sell him one sub. Can't wait until there are some reputable reviews on it--which should be around in the next month or so. Unless I was in a drastic rush, I would suffer with "my" current receiver until Outlaw comes out with the 1050 replacement. For the majority of the population where money is a BIG issue, Outlaw is a great company--great performance and great service at a more than fair price with 30 day free trial period. Now that is a company with confidence on their product. |
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New member Username: FeminaziPost Number: 5 Registered: 12-2003 | I have another question! What happens to my 8 Ohm speakers if I set the switch on the back of the Yamaha to 4 Ohms? Will it do damage to my 8 Ohm speakers, or will it overdrive them? |
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New member Username: FeminaziPost Number: 6 Registered: 12-2003 | Well, I went and bought an entry level Yamaha to test it out and see what would happen. I will test it out further tonight, but as of right now, it is not looking great. I have it in stereo mode right out of the box with no alterations, and it doesn't sound good, and seems to have no power at all, I have to turn it way up just to hear it! Plus, getting the sub to play in stereo mode is going to be fun, I can tell. I will mess around with it tonight and do my best to make it sound good and all that, but my initial impression is not favourable. I would rather use my Onkyo and set the fronts to small than use this Yamaha. |
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New member Username: FeminaziPost Number: 7 Registered: 12-2003 | I set up all of my speakers to the Yamaha and I am not excited by the power or the sound. It seems to have a lot of gimmicky options and an excessive number of menus and settings. My Onkyo sounded good without having to screw around with a bunch of settings. Are lower Yamahas just not very good or what? I am going to throw some movies in tomorrow night. Definately Amadeus, that is always a good movie for a sound quality test! |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 19 Registered: 12-2003 | Not suprised. I think your power envelope is insufficient. I own PSB Strat Goldi's and while the literature may say 25 watts minimum--they do much better with at least 100 watts or more. When you buy a receiver under $800 chances are they could drive the PSB's fine --in stereo. But add the other 3 channels of speakers and all of a sudden the power envelope shrinks to nothing, as the PSB's are trying to "steal" as much wattage as possible. If you have little coin, I would either try the NAD T742--not that it will necessarily do a great job. But your other option, which may be likely, is to get sell the PSB's. If you don't have the coin to feed them--they will starve and you will be miserable. Get a couple of easy to drive and efficient 8 ohm speakers and replace the PSB's. I know it will be heartbreaking. But there is no point going into to debt because of speakers. If you got such a great deal on the PSB's you should be able to get at least as much money back. |
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New member Username: FeminaziPost Number: 8 Registered: 12-2003 | Would it be a wise idea to buy a used NAD power amp such as a NAD 3150 Power Integrated Stereo Amplifier and hook it up to a new receiver through a preamp connection? 250 watts per channel hooked up to the Golds should be fine, yes? |
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New member Username: FeminaziPost Number: 9 Registered: 12-2003 | How about a used NAD T761 AV receiver? A local Hi-Fi shop might have one. It seems like this would be an ideal setup with the PSB for both home theatre and music! It only offers 5.1 surround, but currently I don't think that I am all that interested in 6.1 until I get DVD Audio. If I could get one in my price range, wouldn't this be an ideal solution? I could sell the Onkyo and even if I took a small loss on it, I would be moving up in a big way! |
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New member Username: CargoilPost Number: 2 Registered: 12-2003 | You must have a big room or the PSB's are very low sensitivity. My Yamaha drives my Vienna's at 4 ohms at about -30 and rocks my world. The only thing wrong with the low cost NAD is that they are not really a good with home theater. If your music only then go with the NAD if you like home theater take the time to set up the Yamaha. IT's not that bad. Most of your newer receivers will take a bit of adjusting to your room and speaker placement, but that's half the fun. Good luck. |
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New member Username: HawkPost Number: 2 Registered: 12-2003 | Darren: My apologies for not replying sooner--ben very busy with the holidays, helping my kids with their schoolwork (end of the semester "cruch time") and trying to settle my Mother's estate (sometimes I feel like I am living out a slightly less adversarial Dicken's "Bleak House"!). You must have an Onkyo meant to be part of a HTIB system if it doesn't have pre-outs. I know all of the TX-SR series of receivers, even the 500/501 has pre-outs. However, I am envious of your speakers--the Stratus Golds are an awsome speaker that really needs loads of power, so it is unlikely that the Onkyo could do them justice even if they didn't shut down due to the 4 ohm load. I would take the Yamaha back. As I read your posts, I see comments such as using "Amadeus" as a good test disk, Yamaha seems to have a lot of gimmicks (it does), etc, and I see I am hearing from a real music lover. That tells me, combined with the PSBs, that you will not be satisfied with the sound of the Yamaha. It also doesn't have the power to feed those speaker. Your last post has the best answer. Go to the DMC Electronics website (www.dmc-electronics.com) for an NAD T761 which they offer for $499. It is a refurb, so you know it has been fully vetted to be like new. I don't know if this is in your price range or not, but It is a huge step up from the Yamaha for little or no more money. Good luck |
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New member Username: FeminaziPost Number: 10 Registered: 12-2003 | How would a used H/K AVR7000 stack up against the NAD T761 for this setup, if they could both be had for about the same price? I assume that the H/K will definately put out more power. |
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New member Username: FeminaziPost Number: 12 Registered: 12-2003 | I am considering a Marantz SR-6200 as a replacement for my Onkyo. Hawk said it can be found for less than 500 bucks online. The Sound and Vision review of the 5400 that is mentioned in a recent topic would lead me to believe that Marantz is one company at least that isn't overrating their receivers. I assume then, that the 6200 would have no problem driving the Golds as it is rated at 110x6 in the user's manual. I have also read that Marantz makes receivers that sound great for the money. Any comments? |
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