Best $800 - $1,300 receiver
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New HT user | I'm looking to build a new HT system from scratch, and obviously want to start with a receiver. I have just given an old HK AVR30 system to my brother which I really enjoyed, but I'm ready for a new system. I'm hearing a lot about NAD, HK, Rotel (although I'm not sure that's in my price range), but at the end of the day, I think I've got more money than time. If I had more time, I'd go spend months researching this, but I'm a little to impatient for that. So, if you had between $800 and $1,300 to spend on a receiver, what would you recommend? |
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New HT user | Oh, and it just dawned on me, it would help if everyone knew how I'd be using the system. I listen to TONS of music (morning, noon, and night), and a fair number of movies, but it will probably be 80/20 to music. I like everything from pink floyd, to alternative, to rap, with a little bit of classical and acoustic thrown in (yeah, I know, pretty eclectic mix). If anyone has the time and energy, I would also love if someone wanted to recommend some speakers to match with the receiver. Any thoughts/recommendations are GREATLY appreciated. THANKS!!!!!!! |
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Johnny | New HT, Once again, I will probably be blasted for this, but I would recommend the NAD T762 or the newer T763. The 762 can be had for around $900 and the newer model will be $1300 retail I think. I have the 762 and absolutely love it. My recommendation is even stronger based on the fact that you listen to music so much. NAD has a "music first" philosophy. Their argument is that music requires much more detail than does HT, so if the receiver can be made to excel in music, the HT side of things will naturally fall into place. I used to have an Onkyo receiver, and when I made the switch I immediately heard things in both music and movies that I had never heard before. Just last night I was listening to Eric Clapton and Harry Connick Jr., and the bands sounded like they were in the room with me. You also ask about speakers. I have my NAD paired with PSB Image line speakers, and the combination is wonderful. You didn't list a budget for speakers, but in my opinion, the PSB Image line gives you a tremendous value. The same company owns both NAD and PSB, and thus match very well. Sure, there are obviously speakers that are better, but for the money, you can't go wrong with them. I would also recommend Paradigm speakers to go with the NAD. Sonically, they are similar to PSB. They help bring out the detail of the receiver even more. In your price range, I would also recommend HK or Pioneer Elite. I am not as familiar with the specific price points of each model in these two lines, but I think the HK 7200 or the Elite 55txi are both in the same ballpark as the NAD's. Both brands have excellent power supplies and a very warm and inviting sound. As you stated, Rotel also makes very nice receivers, but they are quite a bit more expensive. If you can afford it, take a look at them. |
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Smitty | HT, I recently upgraded from an H/K AVR30 to a NAD T742. The sound is very different between the two, the NAD has significantly more bass whereas the H/K seemed to over-emphasize the mid-range (at least in my opinion). I really liked the sound of the H/K but prefer the NAD more. Generally I think the NAD does a better job on a wider variety of music whereas I found the H/K to be excellent for rock/pop music. I recently bi-wired my front speakers with the NAD and (dare I say it?) it seems to have helped separate the bass better from the vocals, especially at louder volumes. In that price range I'd recommend comparing the HK 7200 or HK 630 with the NAD T762/T763 to see which sound you prefer. |
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Hawk | New HT User: Excellent choices here, but you haven't told us what you have (or are going to get) for speakers, which can affect your choice in receiver. I would generally agree with the previous posters here that the best choices, given the fact that you are heavily weighted toward music listening, are the NAD 762 and the Harman/Kardon 7200. Depending upon your speakers, I would also suggest the Marantz 7300ose. All three of these receivers are currrently available for about $899. The NAD is available at that price from Saturday Audio Exchange (www.saturdayaudio.com) and from YAWA (www.yawaonline.com). I saw the H/K for that price on the eCost website yesterday (www.ecost.com) and the Marantz is usually available from either accessories4less.com or from a local dealer who is looking to close out the x300 line right now and most are cutting very good deals. If they offer you the 7300 (not the "ose" model), don't pay more than $699. Rotel is very nice, but its sound is a little too "lean" for my taste--it also has the least power of anything mentioned here. I have not seen it for a penny less than $1399, but you may have more luck with your local dealer--they are not available online. Each of these receivers does a great job with music playback. The H/K is the most reserved or "laid-back" sounding. The Marantz is also somewhat relaxed sounding, but not as much as the H/K. My favorite, like Johnny's and Smitty's, is the NAD, which I think sounds like quality separates rather than a receiver. The sound quality is simply outstanding. |
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Johnny | Hawk, is that really you? |
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New HT user | Thanks for all the advice everyone!!!!! I'm very familiar with the HK 7200, and was probably leaning that way, but will have to check out the NAD 762/763 now. Okay, now for speakers. I haven't really decided how much to spend on speakers, but realize that buying a nice receiver and then buying cr@p speakers is a bit like putting 13 inch spare tires on a Porsche! I was thinking of spending around $2K for my front speakers, and then matching the rest of the HT speakers to the fronts. Cost isn't a huge issue (although if it was no object, I'd obviously be buying seperates), as I'm more focused on great sound quality, but bang for the buck is ALWAYS important. I do listen to all types of music, from Pink Floyd to rock to hard core rap, with a bit of classical thrown in there (yeah, I know, a little weird) and I have to admit that if the NAD is really that much better at bringing out the detail, then it might be what I want. Unfortunately, I live on an island, so there's no place to side by side demo test these, but I'm flying into Atlanta for Christmas and will see if I can find someplace that sells both receivers, pick one, and then work on the speakers. Any specific speaker recommendations (along with the related cost) would be VERY appreciated. Thanks again to a newbie to the arena! |
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elitefan | There is no "best" receiver at any price point. It all depends on your receiver/speaker choice. The above receivers are all good choices with the right speakers but maybe not so good with say, Paradigm. Sound quality is only one factor in a receiver choice anyway. Inputs, features, user friendliness and other all come into play. Anyone should audition as many models as possible before making a decision. What is "best" for you is not for me and vice-versa. For example I doesn't matter how good the NAD sounds, I can't buy one because it has far fewer inputs than I need. |
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Smitty | elitefan (If that's really you  ): I'm just curious about how many inputs you need, what exactly do you have hooked up to your receiver? Oh, and you don't really think NAD and Paradigm are a bad combination do you? |
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elitefan | To paraphrase one of my favorite tv characters " it's me ,it's me , it's Ernest T! Yes this is the real elitefan and NAD and Paradigm is a fabulous combo. My Paradigm dealer sells NAD, SonyEs and Yamaha and the NAD blows the others away sonically. I currently have 7 components in my system and forsee further expansion like a dvd recorder and who knows what else. I need a minimum of 8 inputs just for now and the near future and would love even more but can't justify spending the money on a Elite 49 which has 10 inputs. Denon and Yamaha's have good input packages but would be a sonic disaster with my new Monitor Audio speakers. With Paradigm or PSB they might be ok. I have the following: phono, cable, dvd, cdr, tape, extra cable for music only, and vcr. |
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Stone | If you have the ability to listen to a Rotel RSX-1055 (75watts per channel) in your area, please do. I thought it sounded superior to the T753 side by side. I assume the 1065 (100 watts per channel) is comparable to the T763 but is probably out of your price range at close to 2k. |
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Smitty | Anonymous, You might want to make sure you're ok on the input side, many new receivers have about half the inputs your AVR30 had [10 total, including 2 vcr and 2 tape loops] and many don't have a phono input. elitefan, Do you have the extra cable hooked up to an actual audio input or just the fm antenna feed? |
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elitefan | The second cable box is hooked to my cd input and I use it only for digital music[dmx] if I don't want to listen to what's on tv like a ballgame or nature show or if I just want to listen to music and vegetate and scan my digital tv channels and look at whatever hot women might be on at the time. I am going to upgrade my digital box over X-mas break to my cable systems new box with an optical output so I can watch movies in dolby digital. Looking forward to that alot. |
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G.DawG | For some reason I dont think thats elite.... Hawk, good to hear your back. If thats really you and not a jerk with your screen name. G.DawG |
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New HT user | Elitefan I'm building a new system from scratch (about 5 years ago I had a system built around an HK AVR30), but don't expect to have as many inputs as you. Basically, I'll have a cable, dss, dvd, and a computer input (for info stored on my computer). Does anyone have experience with the NAD, HK or Rotel (thanks STONE) to gauge the user friendliness of them? I would hope (silly me) that for this kind of cash, they are all relatively user friendly, but maybe not. Thanks again for all the advice |
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Smitty | G.DawG (well, hopefully  ) You don't think elitefan likes to vegetate and watch hot women? HT, The NAD I have (T742) doesn't have an on-screen display, so it's a bit non user-friendly that way but the other models have an OSD. I would say the user-friendliness is comparable to the HK AVR30, with the exception of the nice 'Listen to' & 'Record from' buttons on the front of the AVR30, I found that to be an excellent design. |
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elitefan | G.DawG, Sorry buddy but it's really me. And I am an expert at vegetating and looking at women. |
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Jaggu | I have been using the T742 for past 2 months. The T742 dosen't have OSD (on screen display) but in my humble opinion it dosen't make it non-user friendly. Infact it dosen't have as my settings to play around with to have OSD. Probably with the T75? and T76? OSD is essential for settings and they do have OSD. I do enjoy the power T742 has and how loud it can get. But I do have some grouses with it. The vocals are very forward and spot on pushing the other instruments way back/overshadowing them completely. Another petty issue is that the Tone Controls could have been made accessable via the remote. I usually don't need to tweak them but some cds have shrill recording and I need to turn down the treble. -x- |
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Smitty | Jaggu, I think an OSD would have been nice for the speaker settings as well as the various DPLII settings. However, it's certainly a minor issue. It's interesting how you find the instruments overshadowed by the vocals, I haven't really noticed that but then again I like to hear prominent vocals. What speakers are you using? One thing I did notice was that the bass seemed to overshadow other instruments on certain CDs, I changed speaker wire (from 16ga to 12/14ga bi-wire) and this seemed to help separate the bass better and bring out the highs a bit more, especially at louder volumes. |
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Anonymous | I thinking of getting the new sr7400 online, http://www.taxfreeelectronics.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=11&Product_ID=892&CATID=4 (USD$699) http://shop.store.yahoo.com/authorizedelectronics/marantzsr7400.html (USD$739) http://shop.store.yahoo.com/bestprice-store/marantzsr7400.html (USD$759) http://shop.store.yahoo.com/topsellers/marantzsr7400.html (USD$765) anyone know where can I get better deal than the above link? for speaker, where can I buy the Monitor B4, B2, BC and asw100 package online? 'sara internation. inc' do best for USD$1200+- |
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Hawk | Johnny: Yes, it is really me! I can't believe how many posts were made in the 24 hours since I was last on line. This is great! New HT: I would underscore the previous comments that there is no "best" receiver for everyone. You have to find the one that is right for you. I am a nut on sound quality, and my recommendations reflect what I believe gives the best sound. But, as your question about functionality shows, there are other considerations. I would recommend that you go to dealers and play with the remotes to see if they make sense to you. I bought my Denon without doing so and I must admit, I am constantly frustrated with a remote that is confusing and awkward. Just like buying a car, you should take a receiver for a test drive. Listen to it carefully, compare it to other receiver's sound, if possible, and finally, try out the remote to see if you can understand it. Good luck, my friend! |
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Jaggu | Smitty: I have the DefTech ProCinema 80 5.1. I think I have 1.6ga cables. I guess I don't use the Dolby pro logic, thats why I didn't feel the need to tweak them. Movie I watch have Dolby Digital or DTS. I think these settings apply to Dolby Digital (time delay). As far as the volume levels for each speaker is concerend; that can be done using the remote. Fairly simply in my experience. One thing I have noticed is that the amp gets pretty hot when I play songs at loud volumes (not very loud). This happens say after/around 20 mins of usage. Does this happen with your T742 too? Just wanted to check if I am the only one. Hawk: Glad to see you back. All: Any tips on getting a good learning/univ remote to operate TV/DVD/T742 ? Budget would be less than $51. Anyone know any online sellers for Grado Sr60/80 headphones? |
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Smitty | Jaggu, I never noticed the T742 running hot, but I don't really check it very much. I'll check tonight and let you know. BTW, when you say loud what volume setting do you mean? And is this in stereo mode? |
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Jaggu | Smitty, Volumes between +7 and -10.. depending on the volume level on the CD. Yes this is in stereo mode. While watching movies it dosen't get as hot. I play at volumes -1 or 00 for movies. By hot I mean I can't keep my hand on the unit for more than 10 secs. Appreciate your taking the effort. |
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| To New HT user re speaker question. Instead of buying hi-fi equipment [badly overprised and owfully underperforming], I strongly recommend taking a look at professional active reference studio monitors. Best of them -- Mackie HR864 (37Hz-22KHz +- 1.5db), Mackie HR624 (52Hz-20KHz +- 1.5), Dynaudio BM6A and BM15A -- are much cheaper and sound exactly as they are intended to: you get exactly what you send to them. And since they're active you won't have to run thick [and expensive] cables all over the place. And since they're active you are eliminating the problem of matching your speakers and the amplifier. And since they're active you don't need an amplifier -- preamp outputs are sufficient and any decent receiver will have ruler-flat preamp frequency response (e.g. I measured my $500 Pioneer Elite VSX-43TX and it's +- 0.1 db. After all, preamp output is simply high-resolution op-amp, and it's not rocket science anymore). And professional gear is designed to withstand heavy use on 24/7/365 schedule [e.g. my equipment at work was never turned off]. And they're all much louder than many hi-fi speakers -- 100 db@1m SPL at -7.5dbu input level peaking at about 120db (and in professional world "peak level" means not "the point when your speakers explode" but "the point unil the product works within specification range", i.e. without distortions, etc.). And if you don't like to hear what the talent put in, you can always adjust response with equalizer (spoiling transparent system is easy; getting transparent sound out of crap is much more complicated :-). All Mackie studio reference monitors come with THX certificate listing their freq. resp. curve plot, signed by engineer, etc., so it's not "typical" response -- you know exactly what this specific speaker does. Also it means a) somebody spent some time tuning your speaker and b) the speaker works [or at least was working in the lab]. I recommend getting Mackies -- they're exceptionally good and relatively cheap ($560-575 for HR824, $400-420 for HR624), BM's are just a hair better but much -- much, much, much, -- more expensive. So for about $3500-4000 you may get complete system consisting of good preprocessor ($500-700) and 5 speakers -- either 5 HR824s or 5 HR624s + Mackie HRS120 subwoofer (21-150Hz +- 1.5db, -3db at 19Hz; $1100-1200 a piece). 5xHR624s+HRS120 will be more expensive but will sound better because of better lower frequency response and slightly more detailed midrange [audible only in studio -- most likely you won't be able to tell the difference when they're using in regular house], though I think 5xHR824s will satisfy most people who're not very keen of LFE (aka "boom"); that's what I have at home. The only drawbacks of pro gear is that 1) it's not fancy [though it's very well made] -- you won't find exotic wood panels or such [just MDF veneered with wood and painted black]; 2) there's no grille or something like that so they should be placed appropriately away from kids, animals, and other moving disasters like drunk friends :-). Thank you, Andrew ps: I do not work for Mackie or Dynaudio; I just use their equipment. |
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New HT user | Andrew, Thanks for the lengthy reply. EVERYONE else, Any thoughts on Andrew's post? Nothing personal Andrew, but you're obviously throwing a bit of a curveball out there, and want to see if anyone else has any thoughts on it. Again, thanks for all the info!!!! Shark |
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New member Username: SmittyPost Number: 1 Registered: 12-2003 | Jaggu, I wasn't able to run the NAD loud last night (the in-laws were visiting . However, I typically don't have the volume nearly as high as you do, ususally no higher than -15dB for CDs unless it's recorded really low. My speakers are quite efficient though, rated 95dB sensitivity, so I don't know if that makes a difference. Anyway, I'll try and find some time on the weekend to crank it up and let you know if it gets hot at all. |
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New member Username: JagguPost Number: 1 Registered: 12-2003 | Smitty, What speakers do you have? For music purposes I am thinking of getting my self some floor standing speakers. |
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New member Username: GmanPost Number: 3 Registered: 12-2003 | The only problem with Mackies are the considerable lengths of interconnects to the pre-amp that 2 or more of the speakers will require. That, and it is much more difficult to re-sell a self-powered speaker should you want to change. Most people have receivers or their own amplifications. The Paradigm Reference Active 20's and Active 40's were self-powered and were probably only bettered in sub $2,000 speaker pairs by the Joseph Audio M7's. But they just didn't sell --probably for the interconnect reason, but mostly for the fact that people are used to having receivers and amplifiers. I have no doubt that if the best speaker manufacturers put perfectly mated amplification in their speakers (which they can do) they will still have the same problem selling them. The public needs education on this topic. It would remove the main discussion of what amp or receiver is best mated to my speakers. The speaker manufacturer already did a zillion measurements and listening tests and mated the best amplifications to each speaker. It will still be a difficult sell to the public. So far self-powered subs have been successful and self-powered woofers in passive speakers have been successful. Probably because people still feel they can use their amps and receivers powering the midrange and tweeters--so there isn't a waste of money. |
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New member Username: SmittyPost Number: 3 Registered: 12-2003 | Jaggu, I have older model Acoustic Research 310HO speakers for font mains. They have since been replaced by the Hi-Res AR9 model, but even those are hard to come by as Acoustic Research's parent company got bought out by Audiovox earlier this year. I've heard many people on this forum mention Paradigm as a good combination with NAD, I believe they make a range of floor standing speakers. If you post your room dimensions and price range I'm sure you'll get many suggestions on speakers. |
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New member Username: SmittyPost Number: 5 Registered: 12-2003 | Jaggu, I listened to some stereo music on the weekend on my T742 generally at the -15dB level, which is very loud with my speakers. I did turn it up to -12dB momentarily but it was really not enjoyable (I guess I'm not 18 anymore ). Anyway, after a couple of hours the top of the receiver was warm but definately not hot to the touch. Smitty |
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New member Username: JagguPost Number: 5 Registered: 12-2003 | Howard, Thanks for sharing that with me. I guess I shouldn't worry about the amp heating since I need to run it at -10 levels to 00, which is higher than the volumes you use. Plus the heating happens when played loud for a very long period of time. My speakers sensitivity is 89db I think. |
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