HK AVR 525 Set up help please...
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P_Willy | Just got the HK AVR 525 and I'm having trouble setting the speakers for 5.1 surround properly. I tried the Ezset and had to turn the volume to 10db to get the Ezset to be able to set the levels correctly (they recommended using a volume of 15db). Problem is that it set rear surrounds to 10db while everything else was set to around 5db. When playing a movie (the most recent 007) at a level loud enough to hear the voices well, any action scene was way too loud....my ears are still ringing today  So, I tried setting things manually, which I haven't quite finished fooling with yet, but I can tell that in order to hear voices well I will have to set the center channel much, much louder than everything else. I'm not the most knowledgeable with this stuff, but that doesn't seem right to me since I thought that I supposed to hear the test tone evenly from speaker to speaker, but if I increase the volume on the center to where the voices sound right the test tone is much louder coming from the center than anywhere else. Any help at all towards getting this set up right will be greatly appreciated. Here's what I have for speakers: Center - Cambridge SoundWorks CenterStage http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/store/category.cgi?category=best_center&item=c1cstage&type=store Fronts - Infinity REFERENCE 2000.1 Surrounds - Cambridge SoundWorks Surround II 5.1 http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/store/category.cgi?category=spk_surround&item=c1sr25zzz Sub - Klipsch KSW100 |
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Michael | P Willy, I just purchased the AVR 525 myself. So far, I have not hooked it up for surround sound as I am still waiting on one of my rears to be repaired and to receive the center speaker I just purchased. As soon as I get the surround hooked up, I'll be sure to post a follow up here with my experience. In the meantime, please post back if you make any progress. Good Luck! |
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P Willy | Thanks Michael, I really want to do everything possible to get this thing to sound as good as can and every bit helps. |
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Jerry | I have the 520, and while I have never used the EZset, I just went into the on screen menu system and adjusted each speaker's relative volume until I got what I liked. It was trial and error, but after watching a few movies everything sounded good. I recently moved and had to do it all over again because the acoustics of my new living room were totally different. Again, it only took a couple of movies, but it worked. I have noticed that some movies have alot coming through the center and/or surrounds, and some not so much. The same for the sub channel. Sometimes I need to adjust the sub up or down for a particular movie, then back for everything else. |
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Michael | P Willy, Have you had any trouble with the tone mode? The manual says that you should be able to set the tone controlls to flat but pressing either the buttons. When I do that, I get nothing. The only way I can get "TONE OUT" to display is by pressing the tone button again. |
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geekboy | I had a somewhat similar problem, but that was before I adjusted the channels or used EzSet. The center seems pretty efficient (89dB) and has a couple of 5.5" midranges. I'm wondering if it's matched well, however, with the Infiniti (L/R) front speakers you have? Also, the rears seem like they're not a perfect match. I never liked Dipoles with Dolby Digital anyhow, so take this with a grain of salt. A full range speaker is better for DTS (DTS-EX) and DD (AC3/DD-EX) anyday... I stayed away from the Paradigm ADP-450s for that reason (even through they're a timbrel match for my Paradigm front (L/C/R)). What I'm wondering is if it's your room size that the Cambridge system is in? I wonder how matched the Cambridge Center is with the Infiniti? What mode do you have the rear surrounds in? MonoPole, MultiPole, or DiPole? I read that the Cambridge SoundWorks CenterStage stuff was decent, so, I wonder if it's the Infiniti match as well as room size??? My system setup: Room: Family Room 18'W x 20'L with 11'4" ceiling Room: mostly box (rectangular) Rack: Salamandar Systems - Archetype 5 (open) H/K AVR 525 Paradigm Reference Eclipse/BP (L/R) Paradigm Reference CC-450 (Center) Velodyne CT-80 Sub Mirage 390is (Rear Surround) (Lots of Monster connectors, wire, and Niles connectors) |
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P_Willy | Thanks for the help. The ezset was the problem...it was way, way off. I did it manually and things sound great now. For what it's worth the fronts and center are now at 0, with the surrounds at +2. As for matching, I agree that the Infiniti's don't match that well, but they don't sound that bad now that I've improved the settings. I've watched about 5 movies now and the HK 525 is really amazing! I'm hearing and feeling things I never knew were even there with my old Kenwood. |
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Jerry | A side note. Before, I said that different movies have different levels set for the channels coming out of Dolby Digital. Well, thinking my channel levels were just fine, I took to watching 'Pirates of the Carribean' this weekend and whenever there was an action scene, I couldn't hear what anyone was saying. The center channel was too low for that movie. I had to pause the movie and go into the OSD to turn them up. But the center has always been just fine for every other movie. The rears also didn't seem to making too much noise for that movie, but I didn't concern myself too much with that. I'm sure now for the next movie they will be too loud. Long live home theater. |
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geekboy | P_Willy: I'm glad you found the settings. I had to manually adjust after using EzSet as well. It has some of my channels +8 after it adjusted them. What kind of Kenwood did you have? I moved from a Kenwood KR-V990D (Kenwood flagship back 3-5 years ago) to the H/K AVR 525. I made this tremendous jump back in October (10/1 to be exact). I liked the Kenwood. It was nice and I *thought* it handled my Paradigms nicely. That was until I hooked up my H/K AVR 525! My how it's different. I still have the Kenwood and will probably move it to master suite duty. Hopefully, I can get a new 42" plasma TV to go with it and a new 5.1 speaker set for the bedroom. |
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Michael | Is it possible to set up the H/K 525 to use just front speakers and rear speakers, but no center or sub-woofer, for surround sound? |
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geekboy | Michael asked: > Yes, you can configure the system and tell it whether any speaker -- accept the sub -- in your 7.1 system is "NONE" (missing), "SMALL" or "LARGE". I'm not sure, however, if it has "phantom" modes like the older DD/Prologic gear has (had). Ok, so I looked it up in the manual. If you select "NONE" for the center channel, the receiver automagically goes into "phantom center channel" mode. The manual also suggests that if you are doing the "phantom" mode, you should use VMax -- one of the DSP modes in the AVR 525. |
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geekboy | Jerry: I'm wondering if that was because Pirates is in DTS? I had a similar problem where after I setup my system for Dolby Digital, the DTS stuff was weak. I was using Unbreakable in Dolby Digital for a test disc when setting up my system. I late noticed a DTS track on it and switched to that. At first it was flat, but then I went and setup the system for DTS on that input. I also set everything to "INDEPENDENT" so that I could control the settings by each channel and encoding format. It worked much better after that. |
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Michael | Thanks geekboy! |
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Michael | geekboy, I'd like to use seasoned pair of KEF Q15 bookshelf speakers for my rears. My only concerm is that I just realzied that these speakers have an impedance of 6 ohms. Looking at the back of the receiver, each set of the binding posts is identified only as 8 ohms. Browsing through the H/K manual, I see no mention of speaker impedance. Just don't want to screw up receiver. Thanks |
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geekboy | Michael, it is mentioned in the manual. Under the specifications, it shows the power into "8 Ohms" nominal. It doesn't specifically say or not say 6Ohm.. the back of mine just have a 8O (ohm symbol) near the speaker binding posts as yours does. The 8ohm rating is nominal and, normally, 8ohm speakers will go above and below 8ohms. I would think that since the HK has high current capabilities, it would have no problems with 6ohm speakers if they're efficient and not power hungry. (Some folks have and do drive 4ohms with their HKs... But, the receiver may go into protection mode or worse with 4-ohm nominal loads.) Alot depends on the efficiency of your speakers (and wire) and where you have the bass cutoff at. The KEF Q15s are 91dB efficient, so they don't take lots of power to drive, so they should be ok. Assign the base cutoff to 80Hz-100Hz and you're probably okay (since the impedance of the speaker drops in the lower frequencies). I would get more expert advice than just my word on this... it's your equipment. I liked my Kenwood KR-V990D as it has a 8Ohm/6Ohm switch. |
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P Willy | > Have you had any trouble with the tone mode? Michael, I haven't tried that yet. Don't even know what it's for to be honest. I've used the test tone, but that's not the same thing...is it? > I took to watching 'Pirates of the Carribean' Jerry, I just watched that in DTS and everything sounded great for me using the settings I mentioned above. > What kind of Kenwood did you have? geekboy, my kenwood is the v7070 which I think is about 8yrs old. I still like it and will use it elsewhere, but the 525 blows it away. |
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New member Username: Dbl00bukPost Number: 1 Registered: 12-2003 | geekboy, I to am looking into a setup such as Michael's (speakers, front and rear only). I just purchased a 525 which is due for delivery within a week. I'm a product of the 70's and 80's technology just getting my feet wet in the digital arena (God help me!). Reading these forums make my palms sweat. I downloaded the 525 manual and it was making some sense for my analog-age feeble brain. I have an old Mitsi RA-10 amp/reciever pushing through a SoundCraftsman EQ which I'm finally putting to rest. I have 2 pairs of polk monitor 10's, a vcr/dvd, a sony 5 disk CD and a old stereo 26 inch TV. I wanted to slowly rebuild/update my sound structure so I was told to start putting the bucks where it counts...not in the huge TV but in the reciever. If you have any basic info to get me started (basic hookups/setup) I'd more than appreciate the help. Well, here goes... Hope I don't F this thing up. |
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New member Username: GeekboyPost Number: 12 Registered: 12-2003 | Greg, that's how I started... only I didn't own equipment in the 70's and 80's. I started with the speakers -- actually -- and then the electronics. I later graduated and got a better TV (51" Pioneer Elite)... but since, have graduated from that. I digress. Anywho, You'll be ale to do, at least, "Phantom" center mode with the receiver... since you don't have a center speaker. You next investment should be in speakers... maybe. I say maybe because I don't know what your listening intent is... is it mostly movies... some music 80%/20%? Or is it reverse. You speaker choice should be based on your listening ratios. I like home theater more, so I bought Paradigm Reference Eclipe/BP speakers for my mains. BP as in bi-polar. I don't recommend bipolar mains (front L/R) for the audio listeners. They are just different but can do audio as well -- it's just they don't have any particular suite spot because of the rear drivers reflect sound off the back wall and filling the room with sound. Again, I digress. You should be fine hooking it up! H/K also has a downloadable "wiring guide" I think... yeah, look for the "Quick Start Guide" under the 525's page. Ignore the surround back connections and the center channel connection on page 2.(http://www.harmankardon.com/product_detail.asp?cat=REC&prod=AVR%20525&sType=H) |
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New member Username: HeffPost Number: 8 Registered: 12-2003 | I tried both EZ set and an analog radio shack SPL 33-2050. While EZ set was just that, easy, I found better control using the RS SPL mounted on a tripod for channel adjustments. |
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New member Username: Dbl00bukPost Number: 2 Registered: 12-2003 | geekboy, Got the AVR-525 last week. After some reading and experimenting I was able to make the proper hookups. Many thanks for the advice on the "Quick Start" website...made a big diffrence. I can't believe the warmth and realism in sound from DVD and CD's on this reciever...my God is it ever clear and accurate at every volume level!!!! HK definitely has their act together. Most reviews I've read give high marks for that and now I see why. Question; Do you happen to know if the fan on the back of the reciever is thermo controlled? I noticed it doesn't run when powering the system up. Just wondered if it kicks in when the unit gets too hot. |
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New member Username: GeekboyPost Number: 30 Registered: 12-2003 | greg, congratulations on your purchase and setup. Yes, the fan will activate when the system needs it. It's thermo activated when the receiver is drawing a lot of power. I'm liking my H/K. I don't like that the 7200 was just reduced to $999 though... I would have bought that! I'm thinking of buying the PA4000 and bridging it to make a 4x100W H/K amplifier. |
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mel Unregistered guest | a little off the subject...was wondering if on an avr the analog tape in is also conveted to digital and then to analog,even thou tape players are an analog device.any thoughts? |
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New member Username: GeekboyPost Number: 35 Registered: 12-2003 | mel: I think it's converted to digital for DSP processing, but NOT for digital output! I write this because H/K specifically states that the Digital Output connections will only pass digital bitstreams to it. That means that an analog device (say an analogue VCR) being recorded to another device (tape or CD-R/DVD via the Digital Optical or Coax output), WILL NOT be "seen" on that digital output jack. H/K may do this to appease the content copyright holders? H/K goes on to state that they do not modify the digital bitstream either... so no processing is done on the signal (make sense to me). As far as DSP processing, yeah, internally the path is going to switch through the DSP processor if you're listening to the audio source and in any mode other than Stereo. |
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mel Unregistered guest | geekboy i asked that question because i would like to use the cd players dac to do the conversion and send the analog signal thru the receiver,but it seems that the dac in receiver comes into play no matter what interconnects you use(rca analog or digital).what im getting from this is unless you are strictly running a 2 channel setup the high quality dacs and op-amps in high end cd player never come into play.am i on the right page?thks for the quick reply geekboy! |
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New member Username: GeekboyPost Number: 38 Registered: 12-2003 | mel: My response above with the "As far as DSP processing, yeah, internally the path is going to switch through the DSP processor if you're listening to the audio source and in any mode other than Stereo" may be confusing. I was trying to say that it's digital only if "enhanced"... I think I was trying to say that if you want to use your DACs in your DVD/CD player, you'd connect it to your receiver with the analog connections. The receiver will not do a digital-to-analog conversion (DAC) on this. What it may do, is an analog-to-digital conversion (ADC) IF you're using any of the DSP modes of the receiver... which would then require a DAC before amplification -- causing your reciever's DACs to be used! What I mean is that if you decide to use one of the DSP modes on the analog signal (like Hall, VMax, Theater, Cinema, Concert, Rock and all those other DSP modes that Yamaha cranks out)... then the receiver has to convert the signal BACK to the digital domain with an ADC (analog to digital converter). I think that's the worse hookup! Doing the Digital-To-Analog in your dvd/cd player, then the receiver doing ADC to get it ready for DSP processing. Then, the receiver has to convert that signal back to Analog (DAC) to do the amplification (that's how most recievers work today) -- side discussion on "digital path" receivers and signal integrity in another thread... but interesting too. So, the short answer: yes and no. The DACs come into play in the receiver just before amplification if the input is digital. If the input were analog, then the ADCs would come into play if you're using any DSP modes (including Pro Logic)... but is bypassed if you're not in this mode. So the Receiver's DACs only come into play when converting the digital bitstream from your DVD/CD player to analog for amplification. Your Receiver's ADCs come into play when using DSP modes (any digital processing... so beware of "digitally" enhanced equalization!) on an analog signal from your DVD/CD player. Hope that's not too confusing. |
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mel Unregistered guest | yes very confusing...so with the analog connections between my avr325 and my nad c542 in 2 channel stere(sorround off)i am taking advantage of the cd players dacs?and will i still be hearing the advantages of my HDCD encoded disks? thanks for your time geekboy,all info is greatly appreciated. |
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New member Username: GeekboyPost Number: 39 Registered: 12-2003 | mel: answer to your questions: yes. |
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New member Username: Dbl00bukPost Number: 3 Registered: 12-2003 | geekboy, Do you have any suggestions regarding a decent center channel speaker. I'm currently running 2 Polk Monitor 10's as my primary fronts, and 2 Nile's in-the-ceiling for the rears. I don't have a sub as yet (still slowly building). If you remember, I'm the one who went gah-gah over my new AVR-525 reciever...definitly love it. I'm looking for something good that I don't have to second mortgage my house for. I've been researching a speaker company, which appears to be "up-and-coming" called Fluance. Don't know of anyone who has them to actually hear (retails exclusively over the internet) but people (owners)who have posted comments say they are very good. Very strong, well made, extremely affordable (which made me immediately skeptical)but most of all sounds great for the money. Comments, suggestions??? |
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New member Username: GeekboyPost Number: 54 Registered: 12-2003 | The first thing in Home Theater (HT) speakers... especially the fronts... is timbre match. This means that the front L/C/R speakers should be of the same brand and have the same (or similar) drivers -- ideally. Ideally, this means that this will give you the least problems. Having said that, I think that Polk recommends the CS400 for the center (to match a Monitor 10). If you have to mix/match... I don't know what to chose. Polks seem to have their own sound. The CS400 isn't cheap, I know, but would be the best thing. If you intend to replace your front speaker array anytime soon, then just buy the whole L/C/R at the same time. |
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