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Bronze Member Username: FletcherPost Number: 21 Registered: May-04 | Which crossover setting is best for rock/pop/jazz music? The emphasis being on the bass strings notes? I realize it should be quite a high crossover.. perhaps 120 or 150hz? Thanks |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | I hate to ask this but why should it be high? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1859 Registered: Dec-03 | The best crossover setting for an active sub is determined mostly by the capabilities of the other speakers. If they are good speakers, the ideal sub setting is "power off" in most cases, except if there is a ".1" signal from the source, such as DVD, in which case the recording engineers probably put something on it, intending it to be heard. Even there, the ".1" signal can usually be directed to the main speakers. |
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Bronze Member Username: FletcherPost Number: 22 Registered: May-04 | The reason for higher crossover is to emphasize the bass from music, which is normally produced by bass instruments like guitar or double bass. Unlike movies, there is no need to go deep into 50 hz region since there are no "explosions" in normal music to relay. Hence, the subwoofer must be quick to respond to upper range bass signals, and does not need to produce too much low end rumble. John, that is indeed true. However, if you notice, when u set the speakers to "small" and let the subwoofer take over the bass signals, you get a significant bass boost, regardless whether intended by the artists. Many people including me like to have bloated bass sounds from the music, and hence using the subwoofer to complement the bass from the main speakers. |
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Bronze Member Username: FletcherPost Number: 23 Registered: May-04 | sorry edit that.. music usually don't go down into the 20-30 hz region. Many speakers (floorstanding) can handle around 40hz above. the sub is used to re-emphasize that bass by having signals from both sub and speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1900 Registered: Dec-03 | Fletcher, The crossover frequency is the frequency at which the signal is divided between the main speakers and the sub. If you like to use the sub to emphasize bass, then yes, it can only emphasize the frequencies it is getting fed from the crossover. So the higher the crossover, the greater the range of frequencies the sub will emphasize. One trade-off may be directionality. I agree that if someone has main speakers that roll off at 40 Hz then an active sub does not have much to add, as reagards extension for most sorts of music (one exception, concert organ; another, large percussion instruments). The main application of active subs is in home cinema/theater, where it can usually add bass extension, and reproduce low frequency effects you would not otherwise hear. That is why there is a ".1" channel. Bass emphasis is a difference question, and there is no "best for rock/pop/jazz music", in my opinion; it is just a matter of what people prefer. I prefer no emphasis, only extension. That is my preference; other people will have different ones. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | As John said how your system sounds is your choice and therefore makes your question somewhat impossible to answer. You can only try various configurations and decide if you like what you hear. If your only desire is to get as much bass as possible I have no advice to give. That has never been my preference and I don't know how to get that from an unknown system. If, on the other hand, you desire tight articulate bass response I would advise you to set the X-over as low as possible. Set the X-over frequency on your sub as high as posible and use the bass management of your reciever/processor. Having too many speakers trying to reproduce the same frequency will moer likely give you muddy bass as the drivers don't sound alike and don't move at the same speed. Lower X-over points will let your main speakers do what is important (most rock/jazz music doesn't go very low anyway, about 40 Hz is the limit) and let your sub fill in with impact not just slop. The X-over on my sub is set at 40 Hz and that allows it to give a contribution up to around 100-120 Hz before it goes away. If you set the X-over to 150 Hz a typical 6 dB roll off would still be allowing the sub to work all the way up to about 450 Hz. That is not bass and a big driver has trouble doing those frequencies well. That's my opinion. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | As John said how your system sounds is your choice and therefore makes your question somewhat impossible to answer. You can only try various configurations and decide if you like what you hear. If your only desire is to get as much bass as possible I have no advice to give. That has never been my preference and I don't know how to get that from an unknown system. If, on the other hand, you desire tight articulate bass response I would advise you to set the X-over as low as possible. Set the X-over frequency on your sub as high as posible and use the bass management of your reciever/processor. Having too many speakers trying to reproduce the same frequency will moer likely give you muddy bass as the drivers don't sound alike and don't move at the same speed. Lower X-over points will let your main speakers do what is important (most rock/jazz music doesn't go very low anyway, about 40 Hz is the limit) and let your sub fill in with impact not just slop. The X-over on my sub is set at 40 Hz and that allows it to give a contribution up to around 100-120 Hz before it goes away. If you set the X-over to 150 Hz a typical 6 dB roll off would still be allowing the sub to work all the way up to about 450 Hz. That is not bass and a big driver has trouble doing those frequencies well. That's my opinion. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1029 Registered: Dec-03 | Fletcher Sherman as a couple have said that question may be difficult to answer. i am actually a little between you and john/jan. "i think" i like good solid bass extension maybe even slightly emphasized. so to me it would depend on the bass drivers in my main speakers. if a have say a 10" driver or larger my sub would be set to about 60 hz. with the main speakers going down to about 40. if my bass diver is smaller than 10" my sub would be set at about 120. with the main speakers set to about 100. now these are just my personal settings and yours may very. but to me sub drivers do a better job of producing good solid bass then an 8" driver was meant to. so the bass should sound better from the sub and make the 8" driver not have to work as hard so it should sound better contributing what it still does. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1903 Registered: Dec-03 | It depends on what you want, and also on the way you connect the sub. The "crossover" really only works as a crossover if the sub is connected at speaker level; then 40 Hz can be a good choice provided the main speakers can take over above that. However, if you connect at line level, the "crossover" setting on the sub is really a setting for the frequency of a low-pass blocking filter, and there will be things on the ".1" channel you will miss, because they are blocked out. Dolby and DTS agree the sub should go to 120 Hz. I have mine set to 100 Hz, and use if at line level only. Higher than that, and I hear explosions often in speech from the "plosives" - letters "b" and "p" - in speech. 80 Hz can be good enough. In reality very few DVDs have much on them above 80 Hz, and often the receiver has a built-in sub "crossover" at 80 Hz. |
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New member Username: CutterWinnipeg, Manitoba Post Number: 9 Registered: Jul-04 | I'm a noob when it comes to home audio, but I've just gotten into it. I'm going to chime in here with another question, if that's alright... I have my front speakers set at "large" with a crossover of 80 to my sub. For music, I notice that both the loudspeakers and the sub "share" the lower frequency noises. Does this mean that the sub simply adds base to the other speakers, or is the base being diverted to the sub (i.e. less base coming from the loudspeakers)? Hope this question is understandable. |
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Bronze Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 40 Registered: Feb-04 | Chris, in general, setting to large means that your speakers are getting the full-range so both the sub and the mains will be contributing at the low frequencies below your setting of 80 Hz. You are correct. Setting the speakers to small would divert that content to the sub only. Peter |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1136 Registered: Dec-03 | the only thing to add to that last statement would be. but if you have other speakers set to small like center channel or whatever it would divert the bass from those speakers to the sub and fronts. hope that helps. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1959 Registered: Dec-03 | chris, I puzzled over this myself, and came to the conclusion, on my system, that Dolby Digital, processed in the receiver, was giving me the bass twice - once through the ".1" channel, then, duplicated, through front speakers, if set to large. It was and is awful. It can be solved by the settings "all speakers small plus sub" and "mains large, no sub". IT was never a problem with DTS. Now I have a Dolby Digital AC-3 processor in my new DVD player, too, I do not get the same "Bass-doubling" effect with sub plus main speakers large. So I think it is down to what the Dolby Digital AC-3 processor is doing. Perhaps they thought most Home Theatre people would not have large speakers anywhere, so the low bass would be filtered out by the front speakers, anyway, and there was not need to cut it. Then, the sort of stereo people who might have large front speakers would get the full range even without an active sub. It is a complicated business. I received some good suggestions and feedback on this question on the thread:- DTS vs. Dolby Digital. The subwoofer. |
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New member Username: CutterWinnipeg, Manitoba Post Number: 10 Registered: Jul-04 | So (being admittedly too lazy to look at that other thread - which I WILL do later), it would seem that it would be best not to use the sub for music but to include it for movies, with front speakers set as small (depending upon what the digital processor is doing)? I use my system mainly for music, BTW. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1961 Registered: Dec-03 | chris, That is what I would do. As above, for music, my opinion is that an active sub mostly causes problems if you have large main speakers. Others would disagree. For movies, try DTS, if available. It assumes large speakers all round, and gives much better sound than Dolby Digital, anyway. Few would argue with that, I think. Just try it and see. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 1140 Registered: Dec-03 | chris to me it depends on your speakers. what size are your bass drivers? how low do your speakers go FLAT? if your bass drivers are 8" and your speakers go FLAT to about 45hz then i would set my speakers to small and xover at about 60hz. that way your main speakers play down to 60hz then the sub takes over. the best thing to do is experiment. some people set their main speakers to say 60 and the sub to 80 then adjust the sub output accordingly. that way their is no loss of bass at the transition point. I personally like the sub for music listening. to me unless you have 12" drivers or larger and speakers that go to 30hz FLAT you can benefit from a sub. but like john said not everyone feals this way. and the best thing to do is experiment with your setup in your own room. try different things you'll find what you like. |
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Bronze Member Username: CutterWinnipeg, Manitoba Post Number: 11 Registered: Jul-04 | Each speaker has a pair of 8 inch drivers. Apparently, they go down to 37Hz. I have tried playing music with the sub ON and OFF. I think I prefer the sound with the sub off. Two issues however, may be sub placement (I haven't experimented much with that yet), and the fact that the lowest my receiver seems to set the crossover is at 80Hz (choices are 80, 100, 120). Could I override the receiver's crossover setting by setting the one on the sub to a lower value? |