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New member Username: Newbie32Post Number: 3 Registered: Feb-13 | I'm looking at a 600W Pinnacle Baby Boomer sub to match with my Thiel CS 1.2s and Vincent SV-236 MKII integrated. Any experience? The sub retails for $1000, but I can get it for $299 if I act quickly, so please let me know your thoughts, if you have any. Reviews on this particular sub are very hard to come by. Thanks! |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1555 Registered: Jul-07 | I have no experience with that line of speakers. What's up with the "special deal". Used or new ? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 17731 Registered: May-04 | . There are real world giant killers and there are so called giant killers. Odds any one product will be a giant killer and no one notices are rather slim. There are numerous audio manufacturers who do not release their gear for reviews. There are numerous reasons for this. The review of the sub is complimentary; http://www.pinnaclespeakers.com/revu_bboom.html Pinnacle is a little known but well established speaker company. They've been around for a few decades and have sold mostly through small, locally owned, independent retailers as a company that puts its money into the product and not the advertising. Their closer is "maximum value for the money". http://www.pinnaclespeakers.com/babyboomer.html" I like the dipole configuration and have no problem with the two smaller drivers. Dipole subs tend to excite room modes in different ways than a single, monopole system - which is typically a good thing. They can be tricky to set up though simply because they are exciting the room in unusual ways. My problem with this sub is the crossover network included with the plate amp. I would like to know - and the manufacturer doesn't state - the filter order for the low pass portion of the crossover itself. The website lists a satellite speaker filter which takes effect at 80Hz. That's the THX standard filter frequency, however, the first order crossover does not meet THX standards. A first order filter rolls in and out at +/-6dB per octave. For use with the 1.2's the filter's knee frequency (80Hz) is set a bit too high IMO. Add to that the variable filter which rolls out the sub at higher frequencies is limited to no lower than 50Hz and the filter order is not spec'd. There are audio manufacturers who do not state many spec's because they feel specs are not important since they can only tell a portion of the story for their product. There are also manufacturers who don't state many specs because they know specs will do them in. I have no personal experience with Pinnacle that's newer than a few decades past so I don't want to pass judgement too quickly. But I have to say I don't like the idea of a manufacturer who doesn't tell me enough about their product and who doesn't release their products for review. There are exceptions to that opinion, but I don't feel this is one of them. My preference is for filters which can take effect at least another 15Hz lower and with a fourth order filter which rolls the sub out more rapidly at -24dB per octave. IMO these two features make the sub far easier to set up well and more compatible with high end loudspeakers where decent bass is part of what you pay for. The bass from the 1.2 is very nice in most systems and it would be a shame to cover that up with a sub by rolling it off at 80Hz. It would also be nice to see a frequency response stated with a specific +/- level rather than just saying the sub has extension down to 23Hz. If that 23Hz is at -10dB, then the sub actually begins rolling out at about 40Hz with a sealed system roll out of -12dB per octave. The Pinnacle lit and specs aren't informative enough to really tell anything but, if what I have said is true, that's not really much extension from the 1.2's actual bottom end response. I can't see the Pinnacle sub actually adding much to the Thiels and possibly being more of a negative than a positive. It looks as though this sub is better suited to some small cube type speakers often found in home theater systems where speakers shouldn't be obvious. As I mentioned in your earlier post, the Hsu subs are my favorites (unless you want to do a diy sub and put together pieces yourself). For $299 this Hsu sub; http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html has a more useable fourth order crossover filter and a stated low end roll off of 25Hz @ -2dB. As a ported system, the naturally predicted rollout is -24dB per octave (a fourth order filter again). This means the Hsu sub doesn't begin to loose bass extension until about 30Hz or slightly lower. The Hsu will produce deeper bass with more power and will be more able to integrate into the system with the 1.2's while not overwhelming or covering up what the 1.2's can actually manage in the lower octaves. The very steep filter action will allow the 1.2 to play as low as it can - if that's how you want the system set up - while sill providing the sort of bass response a "sub" woofer should provide. Review opinions aside, based on the stated spec's for the Pinnacle sub, I'd say it is more of an "extra- woofer" rather than a "subwoofer". It will add more bass at the 40-80Hz range - what a small cube type speaker needs. Not much below and I don't know how high up in the frequency range it will play before the unstated filter order rolls it out sufficiently to not be noticed. If the filter order allows a sub to run up too high, you'll have problems integrating it into the system as male voices will be coming from both the satellites and the sub. This is highly undesireable in a speaker system. For equal dollars to the Hsu, I'd pass on the Pinnacle. That's just my opinion based on the numbers I see and how subs are supposed to operate. With the 1.2's you need bass extension beneath their lowest response. You do not need more bass at the same frequencies the 1.2 alreay covers. . |