Sony ES 2000, Marantz 7300OSE, or Yamaha RXV-2400?
Snowshoe Cat
Posted on
After having done exhaustive research on line in an effort to put together a home theater system, I have narrowed my receiver possibilities of such a system to these three. I have recently discovered this discussion site and am impressed by the great information and advice that is given by all you helpful posters. Could you folks in the know be so kind as to offer me some advice based on your experience with these three brands and particualr models?
To offer you all some insight, I should probably say that I'm sure that with a home theater system, my wife and I will probably always lean more toward listening to music than watching movies, since music is our real passion, but that's not to say that we wouldn't also be thrilled with some awesome HT sound as well. I just don't want the system to fall on its face musically.
I should also probably say that I am open to other reasons why I should consider other brands and models that I may have overlooked that are good values or have outstanding features in the $650-1000 price range.
I have actually been able to hear the Yamaha with some Paradigm mini-monitors, but the salesman (at a high-end audio store no less) was far less than familiar with the features and settings of this receiver, and as such, I wasn't convinced I got a fair listening experience. Another trip to an audio store that was mostly a waste of time!
I also heard the Sony ES 2000 with some Energy C1 and C3 speakers and was pretty impressed with the sound of this receiver, its features, and definitely its five year warranty. Another plus was the fact that this paricular audio shop was willing to work with me as far as price (seemingly rare at higher-end audio shops-they usually want full retail!) on a package deal with the Energy speakers which I think are quite good and a bit less expensive than the Paradigm mini-monitors. Additionally, another plus here is that this shop is an authorized service center for the products they sell.
Unfortunately, I was unable to hear--only see-wow such a deal--the Marantz 7300OSE because the salesman was unable to figure out how to get it up and running. This is another real peeve of mine, but probably a subject for another post. I did hear some PSB Image 3LR speakers at this location coupled with an Onkyo receiver. I suspect the PSBs would sound quite good in the right situation, as the listening room at this audio shop wasn't the greatest, and I wasn't overly impressed with the particular Onkyo receiver he had running. I do have some speaker questions for you all, but perhaps I should ask them in another post, as I digress.
I have put countless hours of research on line and have looked at just about everything. One factor that is influencing my choice of receivers is what products I can buy here locally such that I am fully covered by the manufacturer's warranty and have authorized service availability. It's very tempting to buy over the internet at much lower prices and perhaps wider selection, but the possibility of voiding a warranty by doing so or getting ripped off tends to scare me away.
Right now I am leaning toward the Sony ES 2000, although I sure wish I could have heard the Marantz OSE because I currently listen to my music through a vintage Marantz 2270 which I am afraid will spoil me for music listening. But it is time to get the HT thing going, so any help you all can give me will be much appreciated. Thank you all very much in advance for taking time to reply.
elitefan
Posted on
IMO the Marantz is far better than the others. SonyES and Yamaha are my two least favorite receiver lines and would never recommend either.For music the Marantz is very warm and pleasing while the others are much brighter and fatiguing. You will soon tire of the Sony's brightness and poor power supplies as you use it for movies. To me this is a no brainer.
Johnny
Posted on
I agree totally with elitefan on this one (as is happening a lot lately). In my "less informed" days before I began reading this forum, I too was looking at getting a Sony receiver. I have a Sony TV, a Sony DVD Player, and Sony a bunch of other things, and was happy with them, so I was going to buy the receiver mainly out of loyalty to the brand. I could not have been more wrong. Even the salesman at CC told me to stay away from Sony...so you know their receivers must be bad. The Sony Corp. is so massive and so mass market oriented that the sound quality of their receivers suffers. They simply cannot compete with the more specialized audio component makers who put all of their recrources into sound quality, not advertising or video game development like Sony does. My views on Yamaha are similar. Some of their receivers are nice, but they sound to bright for my tastes. IMO, Yamaha spends too much time coming up with 50 new simulated surround fields that no one will use and not enough time focusing on sound quality. Also, who needs a 9.1 receiver? Probably lots of time wasted by Yamah on that one too.
Like elitefan said, this is a no brainer for me also. The sound quality of the Marantz will be far superior to the other two, especially if you want it more for music.
One other question, do any or your local dealers sell NAD products? You stated that you listened to some PSB Image series speakers. I have Image speakers paired with an NAD and it sounds wonderful. Something to think about.
Snowshoe Cat
Posted on
Elitefan and Johnny,
Thanks for your input. However, you must have missed the part where I said that I was unable to actually listen to the Marantz OSE. Had I been able to do so, maybe it would have then become a "no-brainer," as you say, for me as well. As good as the new Marantz line may be, I would doubt very much that it has comparable sound quality to that of my vintage Marantz 2270, or my vintage Pioneer SX626 for that matter, but those were probably long before your time.
In the maze of receivers out there these days, is one supposed to automatically know which choices are "no-brainers" and which are not without actually hearing them?
elitefan
Posted on
No, neither is before my time. I remember the older Marantz stuff and you would like their newer recievers as well. Same warm, mellow sound. I understand your concern but as you will find out if you do get to compare that the Marantz is by far the best of the three you mentioned. I second the comment about NAD and would include Rotel and Pioneer Elite as well. All much better than SonyES or Yamaha. You can always buy the 7300 and return it if you don't like it.
Snowshoe Cat
Posted on
Elitefan,
The audio shop in my city that sells Yamaha also carries the Pioneer Elite line. When I asked the salesman if the Elite stuff wasn't a much better choice than the Yamaha, he gave me an emphatic "no." I was a little skeptcal, but thought that since he was around the two lines all the time that he was steering me to the better performer. Obviously not. He was probably pushing me to buy what the shop owner wanted the salespeople to push that particular week. Although they seem to be really hot on Yamaha stuff at this shop for some reason.
My question for you is given my price range $650-1000, what Elite receivers would you suggest, and are they as warm sounding as the Marantz? Thanks for your input.
elitefan
Posted on
That salesman is totally wrong. Listen to the Elitevsx53. Elite's are at least as warm if not a bit warmer. I have a vsx45 and it's great. Any salesman who would steer you to Yamaha over Elite should be fired!
Snowshoe Cat
Posted on
Elitefan,
I just discovered an on-line site (www.elegantaudio.com) where I can get a Pioneer Elite VSX-45TX "custom" A/V receiver for $795.00. Is this a good deal and could this receiver be bought without first hearing it and be pleased with it in the long run? It seems like a good deal and I seem to recall you saying that you owned this particular model. Any thoughts?
Snowshoe Cat
Posted on
Elitefan, I made a mistake in the previous website address. It's www.elegantaudiovideo.com Sorry about that.
elitefan
Posted on
Cat, Not a bad price at all. I don't know what speakers you have but I have the 45 with Monitors and love the combination. The 45 is a very powerful, full bodied sounding receiver and if you have neutral or bright speakers is a perfect match. Based on my experience with it and others I'd highly recommend it.
Hawk
Posted on
Cat:
I would wholly agree with elitefan that the Pioneer Elite 45 is a superb receiver and paired with the right speskers, makes for a great system. A far better sounding receiver than the Yamahas (I think you will find your dealer pushes Yamaha because he has less competition with internet based dealers--hence he can be more profitable with selling a Yamaha).
The Elite is also warmer sounding than the Marantz (based upon my listening). I think elitefan's Monitor Audio silver speakers are a near perfect fit for the Pioneer Elite receivers.
Larry
Posted on
Ok guys, I need some help here. I'm considering either the Yamaha YAMAHA RXV 2400, YAMAHA RXV 1400 or the Pioneer VSX-53TX THX. Question is, Which one with what speakers.. What's all the hub-bub about THX Select Certification..
Thanks Larry
elitefan
Posted on
Ok everyone. Here's some news about the Yamaha 2400. The January issue of Home Theater reviews this receiver which Yamaha claims has seven channels of power rated at 120 per driven at the same time. However the measurements say something very different. Here goes. 2 channels driven at 8 ohms at .1%-102.9 watts at 1% -130.5 5 channels driven at 8 ohms at .1%-43.5 watts at 1%-44.1 7 channels driven at 8 ohms at .1%-32.3 watts at 1%- 36.9 This from a unit that is billed at 120 x7! What is wrong with this picture? Once again Yamaha is making what amounts to fraudulent claims about one of their products in hopes that the uninitiated will pay no mind. All to typical of them and others. The sadder part of this story is that HT goes along with this fraud in the "highlights" section as they state "seven channels of 120 watts joy - and no cheating!" If this is not cheating then what is? HT looks like idiots when the text of a review says one thing but their own test results say just the opposite. The reviewer does say he likes the sonics of this receiver with his Paradigm Studio 20 speakers and I don't doubt that is a decent match but the power claims from Yamaha just prove what several of us have been trying to point out here. Yamaha? LIARS!
ek
Posted on
I have recently purchased the Yamaha rxv2400 and to say the least I am dissapointed. Since I was upgrading from a Yamaha RXV594 (and did like the sound) I stayed loyal to Yamaha. However the sound quality is less superior the the old receiver. Maybe it's in the setup but I played around with this 2400 for a week straight and could not reproduce the same clear, crisp bass sound I got from the older model. After reading what elitefan says now I can see why.
Anonymous
Posted on
Elitefan;
You seem to imply Yamaha is the only company that does this. What about Sunfires claim of 2800 watts in a 30lbs receiver or any other receiver vendor for that matter. You think the Pioneer Elites really deliver 130wpc x 7 all channels driven? Go check out homecinemachoice.com and look at the power measurements for those receivers. You may be in for a surprise.
Anonymous
Posted on
Good grief, we get it already! Yamaha = BAD. Sony = BAD. Pioneer = GOOD. NAD = GOOD. That's all we hear in response to almost every single post. Do you guys just copy and paste your replies?
A friend of mine has a friend who is a manager at a upper-mid-range electronics store. He personally bought a Yamaha RX-V2400 after comparing it to everything else in their shop. Yes, including the Pioneer (the horror!). I suppose he is just an idiot. Maybe he doesn't realize how crappy the Yamaha power supplies are. Or how they lie about their power ratings. Listening to them side by side shouldn't have been enough for him, but it was. Poor, gullible fool.
And the reviewer at HT magazine: obviously another idiot without a clue. Anyone who buys a Yamaha, per these forums, is a complete moron.
I hope those new to these forums recognize the intense bias some of you spew constantly. I've never seen such a skewed forum. I'm buying the RX-V2400, if only to spite Elitefan. I know little about the Elite line, but I've developed quite a distaste for it due to your incessant and rabid rantings.
Sarandon
Posted on
Despite what everybody is saying about the Yamaha RX-V line, i am still going to purchase one through friends discount at Tweeter. Everybody has their own opinions here at this forum. Which is great however asking the pros her like for example Elitefan at this forum is a real treat. not only him and the others can answer the question straightforward, but also give you some pointers of which brands to buy and the one to stay away. Me I always have and always will be loyal to the Yamaha brand. But that doesen't mean that I will not try the other brands as well. But I know what features I would like to have on my receiver, and the only two brands that has what I am looking for is Marantz and Yamaha.
Anonymous
Posted on
Anon,
Buy what your freaking ear tells you to buy. Wow, to think that people on this board are going to buy one line of receiver, simply to p*ss someone else off. It's your money. Throw it away if you want, but quit b**ching and start listening. Stop making everyone else's experience bad.
Anonymous
Posted on
Lets also not forget the RXV-2400 can be preamp outed for a honking amp if you are a power freak. $1000 as a processor alone, given its feature set is a bargain IMO.
I owned 2 Pioneer Elite receivers in the past. My experience, noisy, poor build quality. Since then I moved up to B&K and couldn't be happier.
I just purchased a Marantz 2270 at a pawn shop around the corner, I feel sorry for the schmuck who had to pawn it but lucky to have bought this piece of audio history for only 150 bucks. I took it to a local repair shop and it is in mint condition. I'm looking for a good set of speakers to match this receiver. Having little experience with audio equipment I leave it up to those of you in this room to help me make up my mind. I am a student with little cash so keep that in mind when referring. I appreciate all input. Thanks. Ralph
el;itefan
Posted on
To All, I am not trying to piss anybody off. All I am doing is putting out information to help people make informed choices in these products. No Yamaha is not the only one lying about their power ratings but that's not really the point is it. I don't care what anyone buys, it's your money and buy what you like. To the person who is buying a Yamaha to spite me you are a complete moron. If that' how you make choices in your life you have the mentality of an infant. As far as Elite's current and former line goes, sorry but they do meet theor rated power and more. As I have said many times if you want proof go to Rotels website under info and look at the testresults of the Rotel 1055, Pioneer 2011[same as vsx43] and 4 others including Yamaha and you will see the truth in print. Why do you Yamaha apolligists not get pissed off at Yamaha for lying to you about this issue. Don't get mad at me, I'm not the one lying. Yamaha is. This is consumer fraud plain and simple. You are right that they are not the only ones who do this but that is not the point here. Buy what you want but make an informed choice at least. Geez, get a grip people.
Brand Neutral, Open Minded & Undecided
Posted on
Elitist: As if I would spend a single dollar to either please or spite you. Give me a break.
When I get to the audio shop for some auditions, I will, however, harbor a predisposed dislike for Pioneer thanks to all your brand-centric gnashing of teeth. Unfortunate, but true. It's human nature. Fanatics have a way of turning people off to their cause. Food for thought. Perhaps if you'd tone down the rhetoric you wouldn't find so many hostile counterposts to your "Pioneer is God" rants.
elitefan
Posted on
Brandetc., You have obviously not read many of my postings on this site by your above statement. If you had then you would know I recommend many other brands besides Elite. I am very open to any quality product and believe firmly in matching components carefully to get the best system possible. I have recommended people listen to Yamaha for example if they already have speakers that match the Yamaha bright sound, like Paradigm for one. Matching of components is the most important factor in building a system and I would urge you and anyone to listen to as many of these products and learn as much as possible about each one's strenghs and weaknesses before buying anything. I have owned many brands of receivers for example including Yamaha so I have a history with lots of stuff. I used to be a huge Yamaha fan but their lack of power is just one reason I no longer like them. Buy what you want, just be informed first.
Brand Neutral, Open Minded & Undecided
Posted on
I have read many of your posts and you do offer a lot of good insight, and yes you do recommend other products (not Yamaha or Sony, but others) from time to time. But interspersed among your more thoughtful posts are irrational rants (see snippets on my "Sub-dividing Receiver Forum" thread) which dilute the value of your input. Also, fans of said brands (i.e. Yamaha) who do offer counterpoints to defend those products are often attacked. My opinion. Peace.
G-Man
Posted on
Snowshoe--
Hookedontronics.com has the Pioneer Elite 45tx at $718.
Hi All, I was reading Snowshoes' comments about his exhaustive research since I'm going through the same thing. What did you end up buying? Thanks Dina