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New member Username: HenrymcaPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-11 | I own one along with the manual and in the manual it says that its 100rms @ 8 ohms but on the back of the receiver thre is a sticker that says 4-16 ohm so does that mean that I can run 4 ohm speakers? |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2525 Registered: Oct-07 | The 100 watts ref'd is at 8 ohms. The back sticker seems to indicate the amp can handle speakers to 4 ohms. Depending on the power supply, the output could be as much as double that at 4 ohms. But, in an HT receiver, don't count on it. In fact, the power supply in most HT products is anemic enough that you may even have a switch somewhere on the back to reduce power potential at 4 ohms, to 'save' the amp. Some HT amps will even put out LESS power at lower impedances. Read the book about HOW the power was measured. Chances are it is only 1 channel or perhaps 2 channels (stereo, 'member that?) It will NOT be 'all channels driven', which in any event is kind of an unrealistic requirement, anyway. 60 or 70 watts / channel with everything going full-tilt is about all you can reasonably expect. With speakers of reasonable sensitivity, that should be way more than enough. With 4 ohm speakers, you can expect it to run much hotter, so keep it well ventilated and DON'T stack it. Stuck on a shelf with no overhead or side clearance will cook it in no time. And as kind of an aside, IF you have pre-amp outputs, and need more power or better ability to run low impedance speakers, you can always get an amplifier and use the Pioneer as a control center. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 16619 Registered: May-04 | . "Depending on the power supply, the output could be as much as double that at 4 ohms. But, in an HT receiver, don't count on it." If I remember correctly, leo, a "VSX" series receiver is a two channel unit. To the op's question; no, you cannot run a "4 Ohm" speaker with this receiver. More appropriately, you're unlikely to find any creature which resembles a "4 Ohm" speaker. Speaker systems are not just one impedance. They have dips and peaks and a value known as "electrical phase angle". If the speaker is rated as a "nominal" - or "average" - impedance of 4 ohms, it's a safe bet the total impedance swing of the speaker will have a point well beneath 4 Ohms that the amplifier will need to deal with. If the phase angle of the system is difficult at that same point, then the amp will have a very hard time driving the speaker. This has been discussed multiple times in both this and the "speaker" section of the forum. Several good, informative threads exist in the archives which woud help you understand how this all works together. It would be worth your time to read a few of those posts and get a better understanding of how amplifier and speaker specs are not presenting a very truthful case for their real world powers. Also, connecting one pair of 8 Ohm average speakers and another pair of 4 Ohm average speaker will change the total load the amplifier sees. If you're running more than one pair of speakers from the receiver, you'll need to determine the total load the amp is expected to drive. Otherwise, most of what leo posted is good advice to go by. The amp works harder as the load becomes more demanding. This is quite often the first mistake owners make and it quickly leads to the demise of an ampifier. . |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2528 Registered: Oct-07 | Pioneer manual calls it an 'Audio/Video Stereo Receiver'......whatever that means. No stereo stuff was shown in the images section. Just lots of HT stuff. Doesn't make much difference if it is 'just' stereo. Power supply will still be lower limit and lower impedance speakers will still put a major strain on it and ventilation requirements will still need to be satisfied. A couple good, loud, parties with 4 ohm speakers would be about it.....stereo or HT........ At moderate levels, properly installed, it may go a few years. If I owned this receiver and it was tagged 4-16 at the speaker outputs, I wouldn't hesitate to try some 4 ohm (nominal) speakers, though that wouldn't be my first choice, by a long-shot. Caution is indicated since, while 4 ohms is not a 'brick wall' rating, speakers that drop below 4 ohms will be a problem, especially if turned up too loud or the receiver is crammed in a tight space with no air... And yes, of course, combining speakers requires a little math skill so you don't drop TOO low in impedance. A pair of 8 ohm speakers on each side would be pushing it, for sure. I stayed away from multiple speakers since it wasn't part of the question and the OP certainly doesn't want to hear about phase and other.....nicities. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2529 Registered: Oct-07 | Looked on EPray and found this receiver. It is indeed stereo, having L/R//\\A/B outputs and in another backpanel location, another set of speaker terminals. This is some kind of Dolby setup, and has a Dolby logo on the front. Could be one of those QS /SQ or whatever, 'matrix' devices. It looks to be one of the generation of products between stereo only and discrete 5.1 gear. It also has a low-level center output for a powered center speaker. No sub output of hi OR low level is in evidence... All I/O looks to be stereo and the 'best' video output is the 'S' connector! I couldn't see any pre-outs. Even with good care, and a bit of luck, I'm surprised it's still kicking. A real relic! Congrats on it still working. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 16626 Registered: May-04 | . It would be a shame to blow it up now by hooking up speakers that it doesn't like. |
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New member Username: Tuck0411Brinnon, WA USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Sep-11 | I've got one of these that I bought new sometime in the late 80s/early 90s. It blew up once when I wasn't running a surge suppressor and I think it cost about $100 to get it fixed. Been running fine ever since, however after reading this thread, I think I may need to upgrade to something better. I recently replaced my old Epicure model 11's with a pair of Focal Chorus 807v's and now find I am jones'ing for a subwoofer as the Focals, while being sweet sounding speakers, are somewhat bass-challenged. Is there a way to run a sub out of a receiver like the 5300 that doesn't have dedicated sub outputs or will I need to get a new receiver? |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2558 Registered: Oct-07 | Most powered subs will accept speaker level input and NOT load the amp down at all. My sub has in / out speaker level so I can daisy chain the main speakers from the sub OR could just run speaker wire to the main speakers, continue to run them normally and run some other wires to the sub. The wires to the sub? Zip cord would probably be good enough. The wire doesn't carry much / any power and the sub itself only reproduces the very lowest frequencies, so quality of wire is less an issue. When I looked up this receiver, i saw a center channel output RCA on the back panel. You could run a sub from this output, too. Just be sure the sub has a crossover. |
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New member Username: Tuck0411Brinnon, WA USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Sep-11 | You're right, Leo, it does have a single "Center out" RCA plug on the back, as well as two sets of Rear outputs. I may give this a try once I figure out what sub to get, but before you replied I was doing some research and found someone recommending the Outlaw RR2150 stereo receiver, so I may go ahead and get one of those unless something else catches my eye in the meantime. Addressing a couple other points that come up in this thread: - there is a selector switch on the back of the 5300. One position says "A or B - 4 ohms to less than 8 ohms, A+B - 8 ohms or more" and the other position is "A or B - 8 ohms or more". So, it appears you could definitely run one pair of 4 ohm speakers using the first position and two pairs using the second position. I have always run two pairs of 8 ohm speakers and have used the first setting. The unit has many hours with both sets going at moderate to loud volume but I've always run a fan on it while doing so. - The 5300 is definitely a "surround" unit as opposed to stereo only unless I'm misunderstanding what "surround" means. As previously stated, it has the two sets of forward outputs, two sets of rear outputs, and the center output. No dedicated sub output, so I suppose that removes the ".1" from the 5.1 designation. Oh, and the labelling on it says "Dolby Surround" with settings for "Stadium", "Simulated Surround", and "Dolby Surround". I used to experiment with them with two sets of forward speakers attached, with occasionally interesting results, but have never hooked anything to the center or rear outputs. Probably should do that just to see what I've been missing. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2561 Registered: Oct-07 | The Outlaw has a good reputation and has been made for several years now. It is a 2.1 receiver and has some bass management features which you may like. IF you don't need the FM radio part, you may be better served by any number of other amps made by literally dozens of manufs. Your receiver is one of those from when stereo was going 'out' and Home Theater was coming 'in'. Not quite a stereo receiver, but not for HT, either. I'm sort of surprised the amp has survived the 2 pair of 8 ohm speakers routine. Well, stereo never quite went away and is better than ever. You may want to get out to a real stereo store and have a look. (listen, actually!) |
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New member Username: Tuck0411Brinnon, WA USA Post Number: 3 Registered: Sep-11 | I would like to have the AM/FM capability so will probably go that route, either with the RR2150 or if I find something that seems better after going through the reviews over at Audioholics. Actually, I have been to a local stereo store (http://www.nutsabouthifi.com), which is where I picked up the Focal speakers. Also auditioned a Focal sub there, but have since found more attractive models online, so will probably go with one of those. Anyway, I've hijacked this thread long enough, so will start a new one in the event I have further questions/comments about gear. Thanks for the replies! |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2568 Registered: Oct-07 | I don't know that Audioholics has tested stereo receivers. HT by the bushel, of course. Other online tests are available, many here at ecoustics. HK still has a following and makes a small selection. Look at list price and figure the 'internet' price..... http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductList.aspx?SID=REC |
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New member Username: Tuck0411Brinnon, WA USA Post Number: 4 Registered: Sep-11 | Yeah, after searching the Audioholics site, I couldn't actually find any reviews of stereo receivers, just the HT variety. I have read most of the reviews of the RR2150 linked from the Outlaw site and will poke around here for reviews of the others. I have a short list of units culled from the HK, Yamaha, Onkyo, Denon, and Marantz sites, so would be nice to find some independent reviews of those. I may actually stick with the 5300 for awhile, though. I was talking to a co-worker today who has some experience with subs and he contradicted your advice about using the center output, Leo. He said that center channels typically only carry midrange freqs down to, say, 300 hz, so if that's true, it would render the center output useless for my purposes, however, I can't find anything in my manual that confirms or denies the center channel being limited, freq-wise. What he suggested was in agreement with your other suggestion, though - run the main speaker outputs into the sub, then a second set of wires from the sub to the sats. I'll probably go this route and make sure the sub I get can handle this configuration. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2572 Registered: Oct-07 | I'm not a HT guy! That being said, I don't know yes or no on the center channel being frequency limited. You can try it, since you've got nothing to lose and won't break anything..... |
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New member Username: Tuck0411Brinnon, WA USA Post Number: 5 Registered: Sep-11 | Yep, spose I could. We shall see how it goes once the sub arrives. |