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New member Username: StratguyPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-04 | I'm moving my system into our family room where my 2 year old spends a lot of time. I want a pair of bookshelf speakers that I don't have to worry about constantly, hence the $500 limit. I'm using a Passion Audio Tube integrated amp (30 watts per on 4 x EL34's) and a CEC CD player. I am seriously considering the B&W DM601's. Is there anything else I should consider?? This is for 2 channel audio listening only. Thanks, Steve |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Steve - It depends on several factors as to the speakers you might want to consider. Polk, Paradigm, KEF, NHT, PSB, JBL, Infinity and about a dozen other companies have made very good speakers in this price range. You could also look at some pre owned classics in your price range. Why don't you tell us about how you use the system, i.e., how loud is loud to you, type(s) of music, how big is the room and what are you used to in speakers. Also what made you pick the B&W's? What were you comparing them to? More than likely you didn't hear the B&W's on a tube amp, what do you expect are the differences between what you heard in the store and with your system? Are you limited to a few brands that are available in your local area or is the market wide open? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Steve - Since you're using tubes you might be interested in the discussion under "DVD-A/SACD". Click on "Twilight of the CD" and look at the later posts. |
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New member Username: StratguyPost Number: 2 Registered: Jul-04 | J. The room is approx. 15x20. I primarily listen to blues, some jazz, rock and pop. I live in Phoenix, and the hifi stores here are pretty lame. I did not try the B&W's with a tube amp. They were tested with a Cambridge audio integrated. My set-up until now was a Linn Classik into a pair of Dynaudio 1.8 Mk II's. My listening levels are low to moderate with the occasional crank. I'm looking for warm and articulate with a good sound stage. I don't want anything sterile sounding. One other consideration, they have to be black (for my wife), but she doesn't like the NHT piano black which pretty much rules them out...Steve |
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New member Username: StratguyPost Number: 3 Registered: Jul-04 | J. The room is approx. 15x20. I primarily listen to blues, some jazz, rock and pop. I live in Phoenix, and the hifi stores here are pretty lame. I did not try the B&W's with a tube amp. They were tested with a Cambridge audio integrated. My set-up until now was a Linn Classik into a pair of Dynaudio 1.8 Mk II's. My listening levels are low to moderate with the occasional crank. I'm looking for warm and articulate with a good sound stage. I don't want anything sterile sounding. One other consideration, they have to be black (for my wife), but she doesn't like the NHT piano black which pretty much rules them out...Steve |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Well as much as I think B&W has a very good product for the money I would find it difficult to go from a pair of Dynaudios to a B&W bookshelf. I think my first choice would be a smaller Dynaudio with one of their subs. It might go over your budget to do both at the same time but you could start with the speakers and add the sub later if needed in your application. I've heard some very good sound from the current KEF line though they are difficult to find today. They have competed with B&W for decades and my taste has always gone to the KEF. They seem less hi fi to me. Polk has a new line and they have been coming up with very good value speakers the past few years. They are interspersed among Polk's chain store products but you might give the RTi4 and RTi6 a listen. From the brief exposure I had to the 4 my guess would be two pair stacked tweeter to tweeter with some BluTak might be a killer combination. Epos ELS3 has been given good reviews. The Paradigm monitor series could work well with your tubes particularly if you can run them in triode mode. Coming from the Dynaudios I would tend to think you would be happy with a European sound. Spendor has a few speakers that you can find on the used market that would suit your needs. Harbeth is still one of the best of the English speaker companies but right now the value of the Dollar to any European currency is not in your favor. I own a pair of Rogers LS3/5a's that are still considered one of the best minimonitors ever made. They are no longer in production but you can find them on the used market for about what you are looking to spend. If you have never heard the 3/5a they are a speaker that will spoil you for most other designs. Plug LS3/5a into a search engine and read up. The problem with a bookshelf is most don't soundstage well when they are forced onto a shelf. They usually like wide open space around themselves. The best solution is to create a virtual wall around the cabinet so it sees what is essentially an infinite baffle. This tends to bring the soundstage forward but gives better depth overall. Your comment about your wife's dislike of the NHT finish made me think of the classic "Honeymooners" where Ralph and Ed are out to convince each other they are king of their household. Of course Alice and Trixie show them that all households work best when cooperation is the word of the day. |
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New member Username: WryterNaples, FL US Post Number: 9 Registered: Jul-04 | Having spent many a frustrating day involved in my own personal "speaker war" quest - I humbly offer the suggestion that you consider the Polk RTi6 speakers - and if you hurry, you can get the black ones at a GREAT price at many Circuit City stores - they're phasing out the RTi line, and putting in the "lesser" Monitor line from Polk. I bought a pair of RTi6s a few months ago - and here's what I offer. They are open and fairly accurate - but on the "bright" side. Their mid-range leaves something to be desired - especially in classical and opera, which I listen to almost exclusively. Don't know your music taste - but if you want more pop-blues-jazz-New Age, then the RTis might be just fine for you. Aside from the Polk, I hesitate to suggest any brand, as speakers are SO subjective! I pine for a pair of B & W 704 or 703s - because they are very neutral, and lend themselves very well to "my" music tastes - but they are floor-standers, not bookshelf. My take on it - and good luck! |
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New member Username: MarkfsandersonTomball, TX USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Jul-04 | Steve, After some time absent from the A/V hobby, I've recently made some purchases of new and used gear. The big shocker was the Mirage Omni 60 speakers. They retail for $600 US, are commonly available for about $450 US and I picked up some demo speakers a local Tweeters shop in North Houston for less than $200. If you like the 'Canadian Sound' (PSB, Energy, et. al.) then these are wonderful. I've been very impressed . . . Regards, Mark F. Sanderson |
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Bronze Member Username: CorneliusPost Number: 11 Registered: Jun-04 | Since you're using a tube amp, I would suggest Omega Speakers: http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/ They're affordable, and they come in black! |
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Unregistered guest | J.Vigne.....you should try to audition a pair of Green Mountain Audio speakers. What area do you live in? I'll ask about the nearest dealer. These speakers are just amazing, like nothing I have heard for anywhere close to the $$$$ and the designer is a really great guy. I used to work with him in Colorado. Give your ears a treat and have a listen. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | I live in BIG D(allas), Texas! |
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Bronze Member Username: WryterNaples, FL US Post Number: 29 Registered: Jul-04 | JV - Hmmm. . . spent a lifetime there as a reporter for NBC back in November, 1963 - and again in 1984 for a Big Political Convention. A wonderful town - the second time around, anyway. Merri and I will give you a ceremonial wave when we change planes there next month on our way to Santa Fe for Opera and Chiles! LR |
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Unregistered guest | J. Vigne, I talked to Roy at GMA and he informs me there currently is no dealer in the Dallas area, although there are many private owners of the speakers willing to let you have a listen. If you are ambitious, you can e-mail Roy at gma@pcisys.net and he'll put you in touch with one of them. Thats a bit more involved than strolling into a dealer though. Just wanted to add that your posts here are much appreciated by many. Lots of miss-information out there about audio as you and I know. Keep up the good work. Aloha |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Maui - Thanks, I'll keep the address and when it looks like I'll have some time I'll get in touch. The speakers sound interesting. Thanks for the kind words. Larry - Well, yes, It was a lifetime in '63. Too many lifetimes I'm afraid. It is still a sore spot for some in this city as we saw on the 40th anniversary. I wasn't here at the time and I had always heard of the antiKennedy sentiment that was rampant in Dallas at the time. The reprints of the newspapers just before the visit were quite chilling. You felt you were reading something from a foreign country. I was here by '84 and remember the convention. Another lifetime was shattered for many of us that year. I would prefer to forget that convention. I feel we still live with the aftermath of that whole process. And now you know where my sentiments lay. Do wave as you pass and I'll do likewise. If you get the chance step outside for a minute to enjoy our typical 104 degree Augusts. I'm jealous of anyone who gets to visit Sante Fe. |
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Bronze Member Username: WryterNaples, FL US Post Number: 30 Registered: Jul-04 | J Vigne: You, too, can visit Santa Fe! All yah gotta do is go out to your three-state-wide airport, get on a plane, and - presto! GRIN Well, sir, we don't have the "luxury" of 104-degree temperature - but our humidity is often recorded at about 2,567 per cent! A trade? Hmm. . Remember, we moved here from Sedona, Arizona, and had many trips "down" to Phoenix, where the summer temps were into the 110+ range. Oh, I know: "it's dry heat!" hahahahahaha is all I can say about that! Santa Fe is hot, too, but at 7,000 feet, it gets N I C E and cool in the evenings. Jackets and coats necessary for comfort in the outdoor opera theatre. If you ever see it, you'll gasp. It's that beautiful! I've tried out most of the country's opera houses - and I posted our mutual friend down in Australia, where the Sydney Opera House is one that I yearn to visit - but lack a few thousand dollahs to do dat. Sigh. Enjoy your "summer sauna!" LR |
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New member Username: StratguyPost Number: 5 Registered: Jul-04 | Guys, thanks for all of your suggestions. This weekend, I'll be demo'ing Paradigms and Quads. I heard Sonus Faber Concerto Homes 2 days ago. I really liked them, although way expensive. I could buy them used, but I've read that 30 watts is not enough power to drive them. Anyone here have any experience with them? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | If you want Sonus Fabers look at their bookshelf models, they will be acceptable on 30 watts of tubes. We are way beyond $500 now. |
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New member Username: StratguyPost Number: 6 Registered: Jul-04 | J. I know we are into a lot more money. I've found a used pair of Concerto Homes locally that I like, but everyone tells me that 30 watts is not enough. I'm going to call the distributor today to get their perspective. |
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Unregistered guest | Steve, the GMA Europa's may be work w/ that amp. Give Roy @ GMA a call for his opinion. (719) 636-2500 I think you'll find them to sound better than they have any right to for the $880.00/pair price. In fact, they compare quite favorably to speakers costing many times more. Very simple 1st order x-over. Very easy load. Very musical. I'm a musician and I sold hi end audio for a decade. These little marble boxes sound amazing. If you can, give them a listen. Check out www.audiogon.com to see what others are using for power amps. Myself, I have 200/side solid state, but they worked just fine on half that power. Good luck in your search. |
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New member Username: StratguyPost Number: 10 Registered: Jul-04 | Just to close the loop on this thread, I pulled the trigger on a mint pair of Von Schweikert VR-1's for $500. I haven't heard them yet, but for $500, I figured that I can't go wrong. I'll post my thoughts next week after I get them hooked up. Thanks for everyone's feedback - greatly appreciated...Steve |
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Unregistered guest | Steve, keep your reciept handy. You may want to return those VR-1's after reading this link. Hope the link works. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1078785088&read&keyw&zzeuropa This thread is on Audiogon re: Epo's, Europa's and VR-1's. You might find it interesting. And no, I dont work for GMA, just hate to see people buy inferior product. Kinda like when you see a guy buy a Kia/Hundai when he could have bought a Toyota Camry for a grand more. Not only is it a vastly superior car, but the resale value MORE than makes up for the difference in purchase price. Ya know where i'm coming from? |
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Dreadnaught Unregistered guest | Wow that was cold. I think you got a great deal considering your limit of $500.00. You really shouldn't think twice about that deal when GMA's are 70% more expensive than what you paid. |
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Bronze Member Username: StratguyPost Number: 11 Registered: Jul-04 | Considering that the GMA's are quite possibly the ugliest speakers that I've ever seen, I think I made the right decision. This way, I get a pretty good speaker, AND I can continue to have sex with my wife!! |
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Dreadnaught Unregistered guest | LOL |
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Unregistered guest | Steve, ugly? Not one person who has seen my Europa's called them "ugly" Most love them. Good stands make them very attractive. If the speakers in your home effect your sex life, perhaps you need some therapy???? Dreadnaught, have you heard the GMA Europa? When people compare a speaker costing $880.00 favorably to many costing $2K, $3K, $4K and more, thats pretty amazing. But, the Vr-1's are wood finish(over mdf) .....guess some might like that better. However, they have phase issues which will ultimately keep the listener from the musical intent. Your money........your choice. Great looks or great sound? Being an audiophile, my choice was a no-brainer. |
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Bronze Member Username: StratguyPost Number: 12 Registered: Jul-04 | Maui, You need to lighten up a little, and recognize a joke (about the sex part anyway). I understand that you like the speakers, and that's cool, but they are not the ONLY great sounding pair of speakers ever made. You need to resolve yourself to the fact that you can't get everyone to buy a pair of GMA's. |
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Dreadnaught Unregistered guest | He went from being just cold to a full blown dick. Seems like he has arguments going on in just about every thread on this forum. Who needs therapy? |
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mauimusicman Unregistered guest | Let me see if I have this right. I offer solid, proven advice and i'm told it's only my opinion. I correct people when they offer bad advice that will cost others money, time and frustration, and i'm told i'm wrong. I offer the best $500.00 (ea)speaker on this planet, in fact, it's probably the best $1000.00 ea speaker, and I get "Your arrogant" The man asked a question. I answered it. You want it sugar coated? You want me to tell him the VR-1 is as good as the Europa? Sorry. Not in this lifetime. Sorry too if my advice doesn't meet your criteria for presentation. Now i'm a dick. Well, since I don't really like responding to all the people in this forum that try hard to ruin it for everyone, i'm no longer posting on this site, so guess what that leaves you, Dreadnaught? DICKLESS. Then again......we've suspected that all along. |