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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1623 Registered: Nov-06 | This site is getting so full of marketing drivel from Axiom it is driving me nuts! If Alan Lofft can't hear differences in CD players, good thing I don't own any of his gear https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/products/articles/671434.html |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2075 Registered: Oct-07 | He doesnt' believe in power conditioning? That's wacky. The addition of my Panamax a decade or so ago made a major difference for the better. At that time I had a 36" round front Panasonic TV. All those annoying little flecks disappeared. I even had to do a tune-up on speaker placement to take advantage of the new 'black' background the sound now appeared out of. |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1216 Registered: Jul-07 | Great. Another guy who thinks all cdp's sound the same. "....no audiophile has been able to distinguish the low-priced player from the costly one beyond the level of chance." That's quite a claim. No audiophile, ever. Really ? Really ? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13913 Registered: Feb-05 | Perhasp all CD players do all sound the same with Axiom speakers...they all sound like a s s! |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1624 Registered: Nov-06 | My thought exactly Art. I thought Berny had a set And liked them though. |
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Gold Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 1320 Registered: Oct-10 | Saying all cdps sound the same is like saying all recordings have equal sound quality. King Oliver tunes from 1917 sound just as good as Mike Stern's "Who Let the Cats Out?" NOT EVEN CLOSE! I'll say my $100 cdp sounds good FOR A $100 CDP! It doesn't sound like a McIntosch $5500 cdp though! Anyone who thinks it does is not someone whose judgement I'd trust when it comes to sound quality. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 946 Registered: Dec-06 | It doesn't take much to hear that different CD players sound different. leo, I've got a power conditioner as well, an Ultralink PGX-300. I can't say I hear a difference. But I like that it serves as a surge suppressor and I can see the voltage reading on the display (there's always a little more juice available at night). It generally fluctuates from 116 volts to 123. And any line conditioning that it does is also appreciated. Many do not like conditioners because they say it hampers dynamics if your amp is plugged into the conditioner. Luckily, this hasn't been my experience with the PGX-300. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13917 Registered: Feb-05 | That would give Berny great flexibility with CD players then I guess, Gav. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2077 Registered: Oct-07 | The amp I first plugged into the PC was not effected by it. The amp? A Carver Cube. This amp was harsh on the house power since it didn't store much energy and basically turned the power on and off in time to the music. I could dim the house lights at high levels. But, in AB testing with an un treated plug, the PC won, electrons down. With the cube turned way up....I never saw more than about 6 amps or so on the Panamax meter...... The next amp I tried WAS hurt by the PC and went straight to the wall forever after. The amp? A Rotel RB1070 of modest power but conventional PS. This amp choked thru the PC, just like everybody here said it would. My current amp has its own circuit which it shares with the sub. The outlet is a PSAudio 'soloist' which is surge / PC rolled into 1. My Panamax has surge, of course, but also a 400va Isolation transformer for all the low current stuff. CDP, DVD, small dish. The TV goes straight to the hi-current outlet. My line voltage is reasonably stable around 118. Dips to 115 or 116 occur in the heat of the summer during peak AC demand. I constantly monitor line voltage using a Kill-a-watt meter, since the Panamax meters, current and voltage, are tiny and hard to read...from more than a foot away. I would recommend the ISO transformer to anyone without reservation. Get one rated at 3x or better your usual demand and you should be good to go. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 947 Registered: Dec-06 | Your comments leo, have actually motivated me to try my amp directly into my wall one more time. I'd like to see if I can hear a difference this time. As far as power conditioners go, regenerative power looks to be best if you want to plug high current devices in. But regenerative power I believe is only available on expensive units. Does the Soloist potentially not restrict dynamics in an amp? I think in the long run I might just go with whole house surge protection at the box, then a dedicated circuit for my system (I think Nuck recommends this), and use a PS Audio Juicebar II to get the extra outlets I'll need to plug everything in. The Juicebar II is merely a high quality strip to add outlets; it supposedly does nothing to the signal (no protection or conditioning), so it seems like a good way to connect an amp. Perhaps the rest of the gear can go to a modest conditioner costing $500 or less. In fact, I may buy the Juicebar II now, as I am out of outlets on the back of my conditioner and have to use the wall outlet to plug in my phono amp each time I spin records, which is a pain to get to as the outlet is behind my credenza. I might run the phono amp and my main integrated amp directly into the Juicebar II, then just unplug them when finished because they won't have surge protection. Everything else can stay plugged into the Ultralink. |
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Gold Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 1321 Registered: Oct-10 | Monster CLAIMS that dirty power will shorten the life of your gear. I don't have any way to verify whether that's true or just ad hype, but the surge protection, I'll keep! On thing that made a difference is that this unit has a dedicated subwoofer outlet which gives it the power it needs. The last unit didn't have this and the sub wasn't carrying bassy passages very well. To make sure it wasn't the sub, I plugged it into the wall. The sub suddenly had the power it needed. Not wanting to expose it to a surge, I upgraded. This unit also turns the sub on & off with the receiver (this feature can be defeated too). So whether the dirty power is an issue or not, I'll keep the surge protection. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2082 Registered: Oct-07 | The solosist on its own 20amp service to the amp and sub only. the amp? A 'd' effort by PSAudio and uses the 'common' ASP modules from B&O. No other demands on this circuit, so I'm sure that helps. Does the Soloist constrict power to the amps? Not that I can tell. But, that being said, my listening habits are not what they were. I rarely have nose bleeds any more and haven't had a loudness complaint from the neighbors for a couple years. Power regen? Stikes me as an amplifier which puts out ONLY 60hz. The other circuit is house common and never sees a huge draw. The Powerconditioner is to that circuit and the Isolation transformer to all my lower current gear which is NEVER on all at once. How much lightning in your area? Brownouts or Surges? I lived in a place once which has a HIGH voltage surge when some utility plant nearby (2blocks) started or stopped some bigtime pumps. I mean my lights got BRIGHTER than back to normal. maybe 130v? If I still lived in Florida, I'd have a whole-house lightning / surge protector installed at the box. Glad to see Monster is still going true to form. Send 'em a note and ask to see the data behind the claim of 'longer equipment life'. |
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Gold Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 1323 Registered: Oct-10 | Well Leo, we've had a few surges here so I don't want to take chances. Monster will reimburse me up to $400,000 for equipment that the unit fails to protect. So, at least I know my system should be safe. The whole dirty power thing is not something that I'm likely to pursue. If dirty power really does shorten equipment life and this unit protects it from that, great! If it's all ad hype, oh well! My system is still protected from surges either way. Of course it's stupid to use such a thing as a gimmick. Obviously, if you're going to protect against surges anyway, you're gonna buy it. Right? |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2083 Registered: Oct-07 | I'm a little put-out by the way monster does business. I don't even care if you are 'for or against' BJC, this isn't the way to 'compete'. http://www.bluejeanscable.com/legal/mcp/index.htm I chose Panamax over Monster....and would again, though I'd look at several others, including Furman. yes, they all have some kind of equipment guarantee. I'll bet it'd take just short of a finding from the Supreme Court to GET such a kickback. You'd need letters from service people and the power company, as just a start. A note from your mother would help. I once got the power company to fix an amp. I told them what happened and exactly when. They checked the records and found an event at that time. Don't forget, too, that the active part of most surge protectors is a device called a MOV. It has only so many surges in it then no-work for the intended purpose. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varistor |
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Gold Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 1324 Registered: Oct-10 | I read that link. It confirms what I've believed about Monster for a long time. It was entertaining too. I find in general Monster products are well made if over priced. There are however, worse companies for that though. Personally, I just don't care for their business practices. I don't know one darn thing about BJC, except that you and I believe one other member have spoken positively of them. Other than that, they seem to be more ethical and reasonably priced than Monster. A friend of mine had an issue with Monster about a year ago. I don't recall the nature of the issue, but he tried calling them, emailing and he even established a facebook acct and tried speaking to them about it on fb. Yes, he actually got on fb for the sole purpose of trying to get answers from Monster! Their responses: phone calls were transfered round in circles. Emails were responded to with ads and Monster blocked him on facebook! ????? So he sent a nasty letter through regular mail stating that he'd never buy Monster again. They sent him coupons for Monster gear. He shredded the coupons & sent them back. They didn t reply. I know aboug MOVs. As long as the surge protector works, I'll keep it. When replacement time comes, I decide what to get then. The biggest issue is keeping the one in the living room situated so that the cat can't step on it and turn it off. He did that right in the middle of a big play during a Cowboys game once. He's lucky he didn't become kitte' mignon! ("Paws, don't fail me now!") |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2084 Registered: Oct-07 | 3 cats in over 20 years never looked 2x at my panels. MOVs can be replaced as can any caps which dry out. http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll At 4$ per, this is inexpensive insurance. A surge protector with high ratings will have several of these: I have all BJC in my installation except for a pair of Mogami Balanced from the CD. Do better / worse / cheaper / more $$ cables exist? I don't have the time / money / inclination to start down that path. |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1223 Registered: Jul-07 | I'd like to see the ratio of claims to payouts on surge protector failures. I bet it would be damn near impossible to get some of those companies to pay out on a claim, not just Monster (although they'd be one of the worst I bet). Did you ever read the fine print on those "warranties" ? As Leo states, the MOV's on many surge protectors can be rendered moot on the first "event", leaving your gear effectively plugged directly into the wall with no protection whatsoever. I would wager most surge protectors in use for more than 12 months are largely decorative. |
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Gold Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 1325 Registered: Oct-10 | Chris, I don't know about 12 months, but I'd bet replacing them about every 5 yrs is a good idea. The bottom line is that all any of us can do is go whatever route we choose and hope for the,best. Leo, I agree that chasing down the best possible surge protectors, cables, etc can cost more time and money than it's worth. As for the cat, he thinks the power switch on the surge protector, just like my cell phone and shades, is a toy. He also thinks my subwoofers are kitty beds. He doesn't seem to care if the subs are in use or not. I always had cats as a kid. This is my 2nd as an adult. None of the others bothered with electronics at all. This one is an odd duck. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 2086 Registered: Oct-07 | To the extent that cats fail the FEATHER TEST, they are indeed all 'odd ducks'. My big Orange one, (10 kilos) Barnum by name, would open my dresser drawer and nest inside. He and his sister would take turns by the fireplace. I'm surprised I never had a case of spontaneous cat combustion. They'd get too hot to touch. Barnum also liked shiny things. Like Jewelry. Like finding the odd watch or ring out in the garage. I would add that in the search for the 'perfect' cable and such, that this would be perhaps the final step after everything else....including really addressing the room. One day I'll crack the case on my Panamax and see what MOVs it has and maybe order a set. Any way, short of destruction to TEST them? |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 956 Registered: Dec-06 | It would be interesting to find out if insurance policies will pay out the replacement cost of damaged gear. If I understand mine right, it does...so I'm not too worried (assuming I do understand it right). In any case, if I plug my amp directly into my wall I will unplug it after each use, just in case. I tried my amp directly into the wall yesterday. Didn't notice much difference, but I thought there was a slight increase in dynamics. Like leo, I probably don't listen loud enough for this to become much of a factor. Even though I like to turn it up a bit, it doesn't take much to fill the room with sound, and certainly not much to get to uncomfortable levels. |
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Gold Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 1326 Registered: Oct-10 | Well, no 2 cats are the same to be sure. This one is IMO, the smartest animal in the world. I agree, get everything else set first, then work on cables and such. I don't how to test MOVs w/o destroying them. As long as my system is kept safe, I'm happy. As soon as it's harmed, someone is gonna pay! If your system is insured, the ins co should pay. Read the fine print though. Any mention of requirement of surge protection. Also, using SP might get you a discount. I'm on the same page with volume. I listen at the low to moderate range and have a small room. Filling this room with sound is like filling a thimbal with water, don't take much! |