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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13587 Registered: Feb-05 | |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 549 Registered: Oct-10 | Looks nice! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13616 Registered: Feb-05 | Received the NAD yesterday and after some warm up time and listening I have a few initial impressions. We audiophiles are used to paying for diminishing returns and the fact that my Sonneteer retails for just under six times what the NAD does should make those diminishing returns more obvious. Not really. I think it was Paul Seydor that reviewed the NAD for The Absolute Sound and I quote; "If the C 326BEE Integrated Ampifier cost four times its $500 retail, my assessment of its value would remain pretty much the same." He lost more than a little credibility with me. The Sonneteer is far more than 6 times better than the NAD...they are not even about similar musical values. Folks who enjoy Marantz, Musical Fidelity and similar kit may enjoy the sound of the NAD (similar values but not nearly as well executed). Those who favor Naim, LFD, Sugden, Creek, Mastersound etc may not. More later. That said the NAD does a couple of things right for a budget amp. It's not offensive to the ears. It's not bright and edgy and is listenable over long periods. However it also lacks balance and timbre. Folks have talked about a bass emphasis...true...but unfortunately the bass doesn't sound right and neither do most other instruments. There is a piece on a Roy Hargrove album (I'm not home so I can't reference the exact piece) that I have where the pianist is comping and with the Sonneteer it's clear and natural with the percussive nature of the piano exposed for all to here and even more important the language spoken by musicians is open for all of us to appreciate and be involved in. With the NAD you could barely tell that the piano was a piano and the inner dialogue of the musicians was all but forgotten. The toe tapping nature of the Sonneteer was replaced with a darker more introspective sound that lacked the sonic insight to be introspective in a meaningful way. The NAD did have a sweet sound and in a more synergistic system where all the parts are similar it may have fared considerably better as again there wasn't a thing about the sound that was offensive or difficult to listen to (from an ear bleed perspective) it just didn't excite either. My wife's C325BEE never struck me this way so I'm only to guess that her setup provides better balance for her amp. This experiment has shown me just how good an amp the Sonneteer really is, in case I'd forgotten. More later. Been a long day and it may be time to throw in the towel...lol! |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 749 Registered: Oct-10 | You might like the Nad better if you had other speakers to play it through. Since it's only filling in for the Sonneteer, I don't see getting new speakers just for that, just saying. As much as I like Denon, I wouldn't power Klipsh or Cerwin Vega with one. I would use an HK with those and Mirage or similar speakers with Denon. How long will your amp be away? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13617 Registered: Feb-05 | Dunno. I'm going to talk with my tech and Haider. Haider is going to email me this week and we'll go from there. Lesson...I LOVE THE SONNETEER! An open window to the music and a perfect match for my Harbeth speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 753 Registered: Oct-10 | The right speakers with the right amp make a difference. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 855 Registered: Dec-06 | Nice review, Art. I don't know if my old Audiolab 8000S is representative of the NAD and other entry level amps, but my Exposure amp spanked it the way your Sonneteer did the NAD. Actually, the 8000S is about a $1K amp, so it's not truly entry level. I think the 8000S probably sounds a lot like NAD...an overall darker, less vibrant, less clear, and less open sound than my Exposure amp. I suspect the Sonneteer would beat out the Exposure too, though not to the same degree. My experience with amps and CD players isn't extensive, but enough that I'd expect entry level or poorly executed designs to get beaten easily by mid-level gear. If you pay $1,500 plus per component I think you attain a level that becomes a lot tougher to improve upon. So many reviews claim a piece of entry level gear can hold it's own against gear costing many times more. Evidently just about every piece of gear is a giant killer! NAD, Cambridge Audio, Marantz, you name it. Well, I'm very skeptical of these sorts of claims. In a very revealing system I believe that differences, both good and bad, are usually brought to light. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 757 Registered: Oct-10 | There are a lot of factors though Dan. Your ears have the final word on what sounds good to you. But before it gets to your ears, it has to go through the system at hand and react with the room. I can tell you honestly that my system in the room it's in sounds extremely good to me. Very accurate as I am into accuracy, not warmth. I hear things when listening to music that most systems I've heard just don't capture. No individual component costs more than $500. IMO, putting the right source players with the right amps, the right cables and the right speakes in the right room with the right pair of ears is the key and certainly more important than how much each component costs. I know not too many people who've spent $1k to $1500 per component are interested in being told that spending that much may not be necessary to get the sound they want after the fact. I do however recommend giving some less expensive combinations a try before making the purchase just to make sure your ears really do require $1k plus per peice. You just might be surprised! |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 856 Registered: Dec-06 | I've heard lots of combinations of sub $1K gear James, owned components like that for a few years and enjoyed them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they are poor. Some are, some aren't. Synergy plays a pretty big role too. But you also get what you pay for to a certain extent. In general the $1K plus level of gear is better built, with fewer compromises worked into the design. IMO those components s are also more revealing, that means revealing of problems too, which is probably why it's not uncommon to hear a high end system that simply doesn't sound that hot. When something's not right, you hear it. When it is right you've got real high fidelity. So I'd agree that more expensive doesn't necessarily equal better, but at the same time one must recognize that much more in terms of quality and workmanship goes into the making of a component that costs more money. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 769 Registered: Oct-10 | I see your point in revealing problems Dan. Of course the short comings of a poor recording will be revealed more and more as the system it's played on is improved as will any weak links within the system. When I hear about quality of workmanship, I often wonder what percent of that goes into sound quality and how much into longevity which I'm sure varies from company to company. How long should any component last? In this society which is not only throw away, but one where things constantly change, how long is a peice of equipment current? Don't get me wrong, If anyone has what he/she considers to be the perfect system, I'd like to see that person keep it for the rest of his/her life. But all of the companies making equipment are constantly looking to improve their products. What if you had a perfectly good cassette deck with Dolby B & C when HX Pro hit the market? Does the fact that your current deck should last another 20 + yrs have any practicle meaning for you? What if you get the new deck with HX Pro, then cd recorders hit the market? So you get one. Then they go out of fashion because everyone burns on computers. What if you bought a Mac amp the year before they started putting autoformers in them? Meanwhile, you want to run a 2 ohm load. Sounds like a recipie for a lot of waisted money to me. I know quite a few people who have equipment ranging in price from very expensive to not so much that works fine, but is obsolete and is therefore useless to them. My last cd player was made before the cd-r, not compatible. It lasted well into the age of cdrs. My current cd/dvd player plays them, but so what? I have an iPod now. So, while I think it's a safe bet that we're all in persuit of the best sound we can get, long lasting parts and features we find useful. The other side of the coin is only a few microns away. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittStamford, Connecticut USA Post Number: 4219 Registered: May-05 | Jazzy, One should expect the obsolescence of sources. Formats come and go. But, so long as you have music on a certain medium and it's corresponding player still plays it very well, how obsolete can it truly be? I pretty much always advise people new to the hobby to start out with the best amplification they can buy. Source formats come and go and rooms change. A great amp outlives pretty much everything else. And in my experience, it's easier to get a mediocre pair of speakers sounding very good with solid amplification than it is to get great speakers to sound great with sub par amplification. But I digress... Art, I haven't heard the 326BEE, but I completely agree with your assessment of the 320 series vs upscale gear. Remember that my Bryston B60 replaced my 320BEE. The BEE sounded very good, or better yet very pleasant for the money. Very non-offensive sound that didn't do anything outright wrong. But it was no B60 by any means. If all I could afford was my BEE (which was true at the time), I'd live happily ever after with it. Or until it broke anyway. So long as I have the means, the BEE will never replace the B60. The B60 costs about 7 times the price of the BEE, and it shows in every way - sound, build, warranty, support, and on and on. Enjoy the BEE while it's around. No need to tell you that, but you know what I mean. The Alabaster will be home soon enough. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15641 Registered: May-04 | . "In this society which is not only throw away, but one where things constantly change, how long is a peice of equipment current?" "As I said, it is difficult to believe from its measured performance that the McIntosh MC275 was designed almost half a century ago (by a team led by company cofounder Sidney Corderman, footnote 1). Good audio engineering is timeless.--John Atkinson http://www.stereophile.com/content/mcintosh-mc275-power-amplifier "But all of the companies making equipment are constantly looking to improve their products." That depends on the company. Manufacturer on the order of McIntosh introduce new products slowly with certain items staying in the line for up to a decade. Other companies have semi-annual product releases. One type of company tries to make improvements when, and only when, improvements are warranted while the other simply rearranges the features adds a new anagram to identify their "new" circuitry and hopes the guy with HDMI.1 will feel compelled to trade up so his new TV with HDMI.3 can receive full 3-D images. Different market, different marketing strategies. Why does new Mac look and feel so much like old Mac? "What if you had a perfectly good cassette deck with Dolby B & C when HX Pro hit the market?" If you had listened, you would have known that HXPro sucked. Trust me, no one traded their Dolby C deck for a HXPro deck. "Does the fact that your current deck should last another 20 + yrs have any practicle meaning for you?" A cassette player is supposed to last another 20 years?! Not likely. An amplifier? Certainly, if you're in the high end market. A new mass market AV receiver is good for maybe four to five years (industry average numbers) before it will have problems and won't be worth repairing. Is it worth restoring that original MC275? You bet! "What if you get the new deck with HX Pro, then cd recorders hit the market?" So what? You're not comparing apples to apples. New formats come along every dozen or so years (that cycle has been shortening over the last 15 years) and major formats historically have a life cycle of approximately 20-25 years before they are considered "obsolete" by the industry and buyers in general. Reasearch the progression from cylinders to 78's to LP's to CD's to check the numbers. My guess would be very few people sold their Nakamichi Dragons to buy a Philips CD recorder. "So you get one. Then they go out of fashion because everyone burns on computers." I don't see your point. The industry moves forward and convenience has always won over quality in the mass markets. As we mentioned in another thread, no high end manufacturer sold a CD recorder or a HT receiver. Early adopters get burned as prices drop and standards are worked out in the market place. The lesson to take from that is, don't be an early adopter unles you're prepared to possibly loose money and have a costly paper weight. However, early adopters are driven by their personality type rather than their logic. It's their money and someone has to be the first. I don't see that you have made a point here. "What if you bought a Mac amp the year before they started putting autoformers in them?" Then you would have been purchasing a transformer coupled McIntosh tube amplifier. Mac has had autoformers in their solid state gear from the very first solid state amp they introduced. Besides, you'd have purchased a McIntosh amplifier; MC225, MC240 or MC275. Go back and read Atkinson's comments regarding the MC275 at the top of this post. Fifty years since its introduction and it's still rated as as "Class A" (best value) recommended tube amplifier. " Meanwhile, you want to run a 2 ohm load. Sounds like a recipie for a lot of waisted money to me." Then you completely miss the point of an autoformer coupled amplifier. There were no two Ohm load speakers in the days of Mac's early solid state. If you wanted to run a series of speakers simultaneously, no one with any sense would have arranged them to result in a two Ohm load. "I know quite a few people who have equipment ranging in price from very expensive to not so much that works fine, but is obsolete and is therefore useless to them. My last cd player was made before the cd-r, not compatible. It lasted well into the age of cdrs. My current cd/dvd player plays them, but so what? I have an iPod now. So, while I think it's a safe bet that we're all in persuit of the best sound we can get, long lasting parts and features we find useful. The other side of the coin is only a few microns away." Then you've just proven yourself wrong when you state, "But all of the companies making equipment are constantly looking to improve their products." There is nothing technically sub-standard in your previous CD player, it simply lacks a feature found on a newer player. That's the mass market game, to add features and sell the sizzle rather than the steak. As we've noted in another thread, mass market products are sold by pointing to features on the front and rear panels and by telling the customer about the remote. You have to think like a salesperson to understand that but it's simply a fact of the market. Arriving at the close of a sale is a series of steps and any good salesperson knows how to make those steps for each product they represent. The very best salespeople I've worked with can transition in a few seconds from talking about $25k speakers to selling a $200 CD player. The way mass market products are sold is not comparable to the manner used to demonstrate the value of a high end product. Do you buy a Ford Fiesta thinking you might get 1 million miles from it? No, but you can bet the Mercedes salesman has longevity in their holster when needed. Does the Best Buy customer spend hours and even months auditioning various speakers - even driving a few hundred miles to listen to a possible contender? No, but a high end client who may be looking to make a fifth or sixth upgrade to their speakers might do exactly that. Did I ever leave a customer alone for hours in the speaker demo room when I worked at Pacific Stereo? No, while we sold high end merchandise at Pacific that was still a quick sale and move on to the next customer setting, more mass market and far less high end sold there. Did I do such a demonstration when I worked at a true high end retailer? Often, even when I ended up selling a $300 pair of speakers. Did I sell high end components at a ridiculously low profit margin at Pacific? Yep. Did I discount anything at the high end stores? Maybe a 50' spool of zip cord. Perception trumps reality every time. The high end market is vastly different from the mass market. In the mass market you have customers. In the high end market you have clients. The difference is profound. Many clients cross over to be customers when new gadgetry is introduced simply because high end manufacturers do not produce AV receivers, CD recorders or iPods. Anyone who has been actively involved in audio for a few decades will have a closet full of items that are no longer worth anything more than to serve as curiosities of a bygone day. My Revox A77 and SOTA LaserDisc player are such an items IMO. "Caveat emptor" or "Carpe deim"? The buyer gets to decide. It's their money and they get to spend it as they please. I can't think of any high end audio company that was a theif. I can think of many that were not good values in the long run but they were not intentionally out to take anyone's money without reward. . |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13618 Registered: Feb-05 | Exchanged emails with Haider today and I'll be sending the Alabaster around 2/1/11. After the Holiday post has settled and Remo and Haider have a chance to settle back into their routines after CES (also my payday, post won't be cheap). I will also do some experimenting with the C326BEE to see if I can get a little more music from it so that 2/1/11 isn't quite as scary. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 15624 Registered: Dec-04 | Well, not quite as scary, Art? Hope it goes well. Good post JV. if just a little O/T, guys. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 776 Registered: Oct-10 | I'm pressed for time right now Jan, so I'll have to explain more later. My point is that whether it's high end or not, things do change and often some sort of improvement, real or perceived, when the former product still has 50 - 75% of its useful life. What if a HT receiver is introduced with a feature that every HT receiver owner wants and many of them have owned their receivers for a year or less? Whether this feature is useful or a gimmick is irrelevant. It's there, people want it and those who have <1 yr old $500 - $2k amps are ticked! I was not aware that autoformers had been around so long. What if they hadn't been? What if someone had two pairs of those panels Leo has and wanted to run them in parallel and found that series was not an to his/her liking? A year after this person gets an amp w/o AFs, the amp with AFs hits the market. Then what? I never said a tape deck might last 20 yrs or more. That was obviously just an example. Please do us both a favor and don't nit pick at such examples you and I both know, that you know darn well that I was simply posing the question "What if..." What if a source player had 20 yrs or even ten or five left in it when a new feature is introduced and the owner of that source player wants that new feature? This nit picking approach of yours does more harm than good. I don't know how you've had success as a salesperson all these yrs. I know you qualify the person, etc, but any time a salesperson nit picked at me when I simply said something as an obvious example, they lost the sale and his/her supervisor was told why. That's just plain disrespectful and rude. Now you can call that a chip on my shoulder if you want although I assure you it's not. None of those salespeople lasted very long, so obviously, I am not the customer who found that offensive. Btw, I don't agree that the HX Pro version of Dolby B sucked. Dolby C HX Pro? Yes, that sucked. The B version which was commonly used on pre-recorded tapes was similar to regular Dolby C. When I had my last cdp, I wanted to be able to make my own compilation cds and play them. Not an option with that player. The current one can play cdrs, but what's the point? I make playlists in iTunes, set a playlist in motion, why by the cdr now? If clients can become customers so easily, then apparently even those clients' taste isn't really rooted in reality. |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 857 Registered: Dec-06 | Art, does the Alabaster work at all? My impression from the other thread is that it may or may not need work. Can you use it before you ship it off in the new year? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13619 Registered: Feb-05 | Good posts Stu and Jan. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 781 Registered: Oct-10 | Stu, if you want to be able to play cdrs and your cdp doesn't read em but it still works, what are you going to do? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13620 Registered: Feb-05 | I'll answer for me. I don't want to play 'em and why would I. I've invested in a very nice music library. It may be old technology but it sounds great to me. I don't and I won't play "songs". I'm happy for those who want to consume music in that way, it's not for me. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13621 Registered: Feb-05 | "Art, does the Alabaster work at all? My impression from the other thread is that it may or may not need work. Can you use it before you ship it off in the new year?" It does work, Dan. If all goes well I'll be using it until I send it overseas. Sonneteer is obviously a class act. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 782 Registered: Oct-10 | I know several people who have things that work just fine, but the purpose for which they were created no longer exists. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15642 Registered: May-04 | . "What if a HT receiver is introduced with a feature that every HT receiver owner wants and many of them have owned their receivers for a year or less?" There is no such thing. No such feature has existed in the nearly 100 years of consumer audio and none will ever exist. You cannot simply make up hypotheticals which no one would ever face. Doing so proves nothing. "It's there, people want it and those who have <1 yr old $500 - $2k amps are ticked!" You also cannot assume everyone is like yourself. There is no such feature, there hasn't been in the 100 years of audio and there never will be. Whether someone gets "ticked" is a matter of personality. I've had clients who were "ticked" their twenty year old receiver didn't work after they'd pulled it out of fifteen year storage the day before their Xmas party. Life doesn't always work the way we would prefer and things change. You're barking up a non-existent tree. "I was not aware that autoformers had been around so long. What if they hadn't been? What if someone had two pairs of those panels Leo has and wanted to run them in parallel and found that series was not an to his/her liking? A year after this person gets an amp w/o AFs, the amp with AFs hits the market. Then what?" Then what, what?! The situation did not occur, will not occur and therefore need not be a consideration. Leo's panels were not around at the time Mac made the shift to solid state with autoformers. So why even consider it? "I never said a tape deck might last 20 yrs or more. That was obviously just an example. Please do us both a favor and don't nit pick at such examples you and I both know, that you know darn well that I was simply posing the question 'What if...' " James, don't tell me not to nit pick when you're making up siutations that haven't and never will happen. The better solution would be for you not to make up things that can't happen, eh? What if Martians invaded us and sent out a force field so no electronics worked? What then? Would you be PO'd that your new iPod doesn't work? Or, would you have bigger fish to fry if the Martians invaded Earth? Electronics change, James, we are no longer watching three television stations on a 12" black and white TV w/o a remote. The Walkman is not news. Most people aren't using tubes, they're not even using transistors for the most part. Things change and people buy what they want to buy. If they don't want to buy it, then don't. Pretty simple stuff other than all the discarded stuff has clogged the landfills and leaked poisons into the soil and water. "If clients can become customers so easily, then apparently even those clients' taste isn't really rooted in reality." Not exactly, if they are a client at a high end store and the store doesn't sell VCR's or CD recorders and they want one, they become a customer at a big box store that carries what they want. No salesperson I ever worked with felt anything one way or the other about a client buying an iPod from another store. Clients are not exclusively one salesperson's property and the client has the right to go and do whatever they please. If a good client came in and said he'd purchased a Linn table while in New York, I'd expect him to ask me for some help making it work in his system. I'm not going to tell him what a lousy choice a Linn is for his system, what would that accomplish? James, I don't want to make this about what you own or don't own, but it's clear you don't have a lot of experience with high end audio or high end audio stores. They don't operate like mass market stores. Your scenarios are unrealistic in any situation but most especially in the high end audio market. No revolutionary feature will come along and nothing will be obsolete unless the client makes that decision. If a client wants the amp of the month, that's their business and my business is simply to provide them the service they expect when dropping money into a sizeable investmnent. If they hear something in a new amp that I don't hear, my job is not to talk them out of buying what they want. I really don't know what point you are trying to make. People are free to do as they please. They buy or they don't buy. No salesperson hangs on whether one client is going to buy something with each feature change on a CD recorder. "This nit picking approach of yours does more harm than good. I don't know how you've had success as a salesperson all these yrs. I know you qualify the person, etc, but any time a salesperson nit picked at me when I simply said something as an obvious example, they lost the sale and his/her supervisor was told why. That's just plain disrespectful and rude. Now you can call that a chip on my shoulder if you want although I assure you it's not. None of those salespeople lasted very long, so obviously, I am not the customer who found that offensive." That might not actually be true. None the less, James, don't lecture me. Sales is a two way street and there are quite a few customers who aren't wanted in a store no matter what. I can tell stories about several clients walking in and every salesperson on the floor suddenly needing to take a dump or check the stock room. Salespeople are not floormats who allow customers to walk all over them. Most salespeople will take quite a bit but they are all human when it comes to taking abuse or a crazyassed customer wasting their time. If you're really off base, there's nowhere for a salesperson to go with inaccurate information in the customer's head and the salesperson is probably going to "nit pick" in an attempt to clarify what might actually be the facts of the situation. I had one customer come in with his daughter intending to show her how to deal with salespeople. He wanted me to match an ad for a certain price. I verfied we could do so and went to the copier to make a blow up of the add which stated in the fine print the price was after a $3500 downpayment plus tax and delivery charges. When I asked if he was prepared to give me the $3500 to close the deal, he got PO'd and wanted to see the manager. The manager simply pointed out the fine print in the ad he had brought in and the guy stormed out of the store with his daughter rolling her eyes. The customer is not always right. . |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 791 Registered: Oct-10 | Yeah Jan, I WILL tell you not to nit pick at what I say. Most definately! I've been in quite a few high end stores. If a client needs actual correcting, as in correcting that's truly necessary so that client doesn't buy something that will be of no real benefit to them, the salesperson does so respectfully. The ones I've seen and would buy from certainly do. Clients are not floormats either. Nor are they willing to be spoken down to like little kids. That btw, is the nice bunch. The type of client you refered to as not welcome, the arrogant type, the ones who would walk all over you if you let them, I've seen them too. Their conduct is unacceptable. I've had the pleasure of watching local police tell several of them they can't come back to the store. No such feature has or ever will be invented? It wasn't too long after a considerable number of people upgraded from dvd to blu-ray, that blu-ray 3D hit the market. The advantage you pointed out of bypassing the receiver with the video signal aside since many people will still go through it for various reasons (don't know about downgrading, convenience, etc), I'm guessing you never heard about the 3D pass through fiasco? It wasn't very long ago that a number of people bought new HT systems. 3D blu-ray players, 3D TVs, receivers with HDMI. Everything is new and compatible....or so they thought! 3D movies played on 3D players with 3D TVs weren't in 3D! It seems that somehow, the receiver makers were behind the 8 ball with the 3D pass through feature! What I don't get about you, is that you seem to have no problem saying things to people that offend you when said to you. Don't dish it out if you can't take it Jan. One little heads up Jan, there is no life on Mars. So don't worry. Your flow of electrons is safe! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15643 Registered: May-04 | . Here's what you said, "What if a HT receiver is introduced with a feature that every HT receiver owner wants and many of them have owned their receivers for a year or less?" Do you seriously believe 3-D is "a feature that every HT receiver owner wants"? I don't. "3D TV sales: no blockbuster here"; http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/26588/20100603/3d-television-sales-samsung-lg-pa nasonic.htm "Sales of 3D TV in the US are not going as per expected, desired and predicted standards"; http://good3dtv.com/3d-tv/black-friday-3d-tv-offers-where-will-they-go-from-here / You're not arguing that such a technolgy exists, you're saying that technologies sometimes don't live up to their hype. That's not the same as "a feature that every HT receiver owner wants". That's mass market BS. If you are an early adopter, you should expect troubles when shopping in the mass market. That's just common sense and proven by history. Do you actually expect that "many of them have owned their receivers for ayear or less"? I don't, that's not how the market operates. Most people shopping for a product such as HT will have done some study and know a reasonable amount about coming features which are reported well in advance by magazines such as Consumer Reports. I just don't find your hypothetical situations very believable nor do I understand what they are supposed to prove. People buy what they want to buy. LaserDisc was clearly superior in audio, video and convenience when compared to VHS. Did everyone "need" a LaserDisc player? Hardly, most people didn't even know the technology existed. There has never been and there never will be a "feature that every HT receiver owner wants". There has never been and there never will be such a "feature" in high end audio. If someone buys a technology and it's gone in a year, they made their decision by betting on a loosing technolgy. I don't know what you are arguing, James. You seem to be arguing make believe just for the sake of arguing. Calm down. . |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 803 Registered: Oct-10 | (sighs, shakes head in disbelief) Jan!....Even if a new feature, technology, etc is reportedly coming, news of such is often received by people who recently bought the old thing. Personally, I've never been an early adopter because I've seen this happen many times to early adopters. No, not every HT person wants 3D, but that's probably because they're afraid that as soon as they have a 3D system up and running, someone in the mass market industry is going to announce the next big thing. Maybe "aroma vision" you can smell the various fragrances of the scene and be even more there! I doubt that would be a big seller, but who knows? I don't argue just to argue. It just seems to me that you feel a need to argue with everything I say. What do have to prove? Most of the people in the audio section see you as THEE expert, the guy who knows all, the reigning king of knowledge of all things audio and then some. Do you see me as some sort of threat to your position here? Forget about it! I wouldn't want it and no one here is going to dessert you anyway so the throne is yours as long as you maintain your membership. Enjoy and take your own advice, "Calm down!" Don't let your insecurities get the best of you, okay? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15647 Registered: May-04 | . This, " No, not every HT person wants 3D, but that's probably because they're afraid that as soon as they have a 3D system up and running, someone in the mass market industry is going to announce the next big thing." ... ... disproves this,"What if a HT receiver is introduced with a feature that every HT receiver owner wants and many of them have owned their receivers for a year or less?" There has never been and there never will be a feature that every owner of anything audio wants. That's a fact, and since that is a fact nothing you have hypothesized has any bearing on the real world facts. James, don't personally attack me. This is an audio forum, one you have decided requires you respond to every single post made whether you have anything to say or not. No one here can stop you from posting anything you care to but you can stop for a moment before you respond with inaccurate or unhelpful information and think about what you are posting. In this thread; https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/664444.html you didn't bother to read the information provided by the poster. He has replaced the speakers which were attached to the tweeters with floor-standing models. You're response, "You're not using any tweeters? You're going to need something to handle the highs!", is saying what? That you don't bother to read what is posted? Your further questions regarding what sources the op is using have nothing to do with what has been requested by the op. This has been your MO since you decided to make this forum the repository of your audio wisdom. You have over 800 posts in less than two months - roughly twenty per day - and many of them are of the nature of the volume control request. In most instances the posts are minutes apart from each other. You open your mouth before you have the facts and then you prefer to get snippy about anyone who calls you on this behavior. You claimed there was an advertisement for a 250 watt McIntosh receiver. When I rather conclusively proved there is not and could never have been a 250 watt McIntosh receiver nor an ad for such a product, you blamed the "advertiser" rather than say that you had possibly screwed up. You don't know about autoformers but you have no hestitation using them in your make beleive world where leo's speakers and Mac without autoformers exists. James, if you have facts, use them but don't just make up crap and then get p!ssed when you're called on making up crap. If you intend to begin threads about equalizers and subwoofers, have real facts and not just what you think is true. James, I'm not looking for another fight with you nor am I looking forward to you insulting me simply because you have made a mistake you are unwilling to admit. You need to slow down and think about what you are posting. As Nuck said your "posts are coming fast and stupid". If you want to be "one of the guys", don't push so hard. Read what's being posted and think about what you need to say rather than just saying anything that comes into your head. I'm not at all insecrue about you doing anything that could threaten me, James. I think I can safely assume what any one member of this forum thinks about you and me. Only you can change what they think about you. Take this as friendly advice or not. I'm not at all interested in any conflict between us. This thread is about Art's amplifier. Why not just let it be about that? . |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 809 Registered: Oct-10 | Oh, I have over 800 posts in two months? So what? Who gives a rat's butt about that? I sure don't! I have not responded to EVERY SINGLE POST in this forum. There are more that I have not responded to than ones I have there are even subjects that I have not touched upon as of yet and probably never will. I know for a fact that I saw a Mac receiver @ 250 wpc advertised. There was obviously a miss print. Miss prints do happen. I asked about the tweeters because the reference to them and the speakers is not real clear. I asked about the source for a reason that certainly should have been obvious to you. I'll let you figure that out. I don't want to fight with you either nor do I want to re-hash old arguments. However, as long as I've been in here, you have been acting like I was here to topple your throne and as far as I can tell, it's simply because I don't agree with you on certain matters. That's not going to change because yoou respond to every post I make, quote me, argue what you quote and keep repeating things like "There has never been such a feature and there never will be." If anyone doesn't find what I have to say useful, they can decide that own. Nothing I've said to you in over a month was meant as a personal attack. I'm not responsible for how you take it. If I wanted to attack you personally, I would do so in a manor that leaves no room for confusion. If you want to be at peace with me, great! I'm all for it. Just don't attack everything I say. Don't do to me what you yourself will not put up with. Okay? It's just that simple. Cheerio! |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 810 Registered: Oct-10 | ...and if you really don't want to fight with me Jan, don't post the face with the tongue sticking out. That's just plain childish. Thank you! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15652 Registered: May-04 | . "Just don't attack everything I say" There's a large difference between "attacking" and correcting what you post. James, you are often incorrect in what you post and you are incredibly argumentative about anyone saying so. Don't tell me what to post. What you post is often simply crazy stuff. An emoticon is a better choice than constantly posting what I would otherwise say. Live with it, James. . |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 811 Registered: Oct-10 | Call it what you like, but to do so the way do is attacking. If you keep posting that face or what you might otherwise say, then don't expect me to respect your wishes. Respect is a two way street. Since sticking your tongue out at people is childish, what you might have said instead of that can't be any more mature. So why do either? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13627 Registered: Feb-05 | "You need to slow down and think about what you are posting. As Nuck said your "posts are coming fast and stupid". If you want to be "one of the guys", don't push so hard. Read what's being posted and think about what you need to say rather than just saying anything that comes into your head. I'm not at all insecrue about you doing anything that could threaten me, James. I think I can safely assume what any one member of this forum thinks about you and me. Only you can change what they think about you. Take this as friendly advice or not. I'm not at all interested in any conflict between us." This was sound advice and came from a good place, James. There have been disagreements on this forum however you need to understand that Jan "IS" an expert on the subject of audio, not a pretend expert. She is the most knowledgeable person on our forum. You may not like her delivery and if that's so you are free to choose not to listen, but do understand that it will likely be to your detriment. Jan has been more than patient with you. James, you are welcome to join in conversations and be a part of this community but I would ask that you kick back a bit and get to understand the dynamics here and get to know the folks. None of us can tell you what to do as the internet is open to everyone, but if this place bothers you perhaps you may want to move on. Again, I'm not advocating that. But, I'm just sayin". So let's get over it and move on, what say, James. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 821 Registered: Oct-10 | Art, I thought Jan was a man. I know, Jan is usually short for Janet or Janice, etc, but there are also men named Jan. You.might want to double check that. As for interactions between Jan and me, expert or not, there is no call for those kinds of responses to my posts. No one else talks to each other that way. It's okay for Jan? NO! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13628 Registered: Feb-05 | What does it matter what gender Jan is? There is also no call for the running around like a chicken with your head cut off posting in nearly every thread that opens. Your business and you can certainly do it however you want but do keep in mind that every one of your posts builds a case for your credibility. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 823 Registered: Oct-10 | Most people, especially men, don't like being refered to as the opposite gender. You know that. For this reason, a person's gender is the only thing I really care to know about people I speak to in here. Age, race, religion, se.xual preference, etc? No need. Gender, for show of proper respect only, yes. As for number of posts, I had some time to kill, so I killed some time. I'm not really interested in what people think about my posting habits and I really don't care to be critiqued on that. There certainly are worse things I could be doing. None of my posting activities warrant those responses. Nuff said. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13629 Registered: Feb-05 | Like I said, your choice. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 828 Registered: Oct-10 | Alright then, on to better things, anyone got audio stuff to talk about? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13631 Registered: Feb-05 | This thread was about audio at one time... |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15653 Registered: May-04 | . "Since sticking your tongue out at people is childish, what you might have said instead of that can't be any more mature." For all your complaining you don't even understand what the emoticon represents. James, you're quite a piece o'work. " ... there is no call for those kinds of responses to my posts. No one else talks to each other that way." I'm not responding in any "way". I'm answering and often correcting your posts. I answered your question regarding how long a component should last by quoting JA from Stereophile as he reviewed the performance of a Mac amp designed in 1960. I mentioned how differnt audio companies go about product line introductions. I assured you no one ever traded a Dolby B or C cassette deck just to get Dolby HXPro. I informed you there were no Mac solid state amplifiers without autoformers until recently. And so on. But you won't listen and you continue to argue without any facts or proofs and you personally insult me; https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1923230#POST1923230 - https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1923301#POST1923301 - https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1923427#POST1923427 - https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1923515#POST1923515 I did not attack you. You, however, see any form of disagreement as an attack. Just as you did when you first entered this forum. James, you need to get a grip on reality. If you are going to be a part of this forum, you need to be a civil part of this forum and not a part that blows up constantly. If you are going to make twenty plus posts everyday, you need to be a working part of this forum. If you post something I consider to be inaccurate, I will make a correction - as will others. You can discuss it but you need to be logical in your arguments and not just argue against all dissent rather than learn something when you have been wrong. "I know for a fact that I saw a Mac receiver @ 250 wpc advertised." I don't believe you. Mac doesn't do receivers, they haven't done receivers for almost twenty years and they wouldn't do a 250 watt receiver. No one would. But you will not accept the possibility that you might be wrong and you blame someone else for your mistake. "I asked about the tweeters because the reference to them and the speakers is not real clear. I asked about the source for a reason that certainly should have been obvious to you." The situation was perfectly clear in the op. There are no speakers to mate to the old tweeters and there are now floorstanding speakers in their place. The op wanted a volume control, there was no need to ask about sources. "I don't really understand what's up with you but I'll make sure to print it out and let him read the entire thread, including every vital contribution you've made, okay James?"; https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1922898#POST1922898 You post so frequently without useful information the op's think you have issues. I make responses when someone asks me a question, says something to me or I feel I've got something to contribute. There is more to it than just that (not being over anxious, I assure you inspite of how it looks). I will explain the rest of what I am doing later. I think you'll find it...well, interesting if nothing else."; https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1922923#POST1922923 No, James, twenty inaccurate and bothersome "contributions" per day are not interesting to anyone. You need to slow down and not post to every response you see. If you have nothing to say, don't say it. If you think you're right and you're not, you will be corrected by myself and a dozen others on this forum who understand how audio works or who know audio history better than you; https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1922778#POST1922778 I really don't care about Advent speakers from the 60s. What's that got to do with here and now? Nothing!"; https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1923544#POST1923544 Yes, it does have something to do with the here and now when you claim not to know about many four Ohm speakers because you don't read about them in the reviews by audiophiles; https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1923493#POST1923493 No one is attacking you but on the other hand no one here is going to allow you to post inaccurate information just to avoid you blowing up. When proof is presented that you have been in error, learn to accept that maybe you don't know all you think you do and learn from what is being proven. There is no need to argue relentlessly or to blame a misprint on a non-existent advertiser. Get a grip, James. This is a forum and we all get our opinions. But, if you post something obviously inaccurate, you are going to find people who are going to correct your mistake. You cannot go through this whole process every time claiming anyone who does so is attacking you. If you do, you will find yourself very unwelcome on this forum. That is a fact. . |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 832 Registered: Oct-10 | Jan, why are answering questions that I didn't ask? I never asked about 50 year old Advent speakers and I don't care to know about them. I'm not planning to try and buy any on ebay. When I ask a question, it's usually a simple question requiring only a simple answer. For instance, if I were to ask a member the impedence of his/her speakers, said member knows that I am asking for the nominal impedence as stated by the manufacturer. The answer is most likely 4, 6 or 8 ohms. That's all I'm looking for obviously. Once the member has answered me, here comes big stuffed shirt Jan who first repeats what the other member already said as if it hadn't been said. Then comes the never ending explanation that it's only a nominal spec and has no real meaning because the impedence constantly varies, and on and on and on..... I did not need or want all of that. All I wanted to know is how many ohms the company rates their speaker at. That's it, nothing else! The question was already answered, so go answer someone else's question and try being concise for a change! Why do feel the need to answer every question as if you're a college professor trying to fit a full semestar course into a single post? On the rare occassions that I ask you a question, I read maybe the first two or three sentences of your answer, then I scan the rest of your text book size post just in case there is something else helpful therein, usually not. This is not due to a short attention span. This is a matter of getting an answer to the question I asked and not being told the whole explanation of impedence variation which I am certainly already aware of. I am not concerned in the slightest with whether you approve of my posting habits or not. I would rather sit in a class room listening to Ben Stien explain the history of pet rocks than worry about what you think of anything to do my posts. Get over yourself already! Advent speakers of the 60s have no relevance to what I was talking about: speakers over the past 20 yrs, not 50 or more. I understand that sticking your tongue out at other people is childish and that the emotional content of doing so indicates that the one who does that has the emotional maturity of a 3 year old. Anything you might say that expresses the same message as sticking your tongue out will be just as childish as having done so. If you don't have something mature to say, hold your tongue. Some things are better left unsaid. I have left a lot unsaid both to and about you for this very reason. I do not have conflicts with other members here because they don't respond to my posts with your abrasive style. I've had civil discussions with just about everyone in here. I don't really care if you believe I saw that Mac receiver ad or not. I know I saw it. If you really want to believe otherwise go ahead. I never lost a wink of sleep worrying about what you believe. If you really find my posts so bothersome, ignore them. That would be the mature thing to do. If there really is something to be corrected, someone else will and in a mature, respectful concise manner. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 836 Registered: Oct-10 | In any case Art, I'm glad you are sticking with an amp that works for you. I'd like to hear one of these compared to Mac and some other top names played through some top name speakers. It would be nice if it could get more exposure here on this side of the pond. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1933 Registered: Oct-07 | Just catching up with Art's new amp. And, I'll skip the intermission: Art, Enjoy the new NAD. At 50x2 with NAD house sound and soft clip, this is probably a keeper. I didn't look.....Phone section? That'd be a plus, but for me not a deal breaker. Pair with some friendly speakers and a reasonably sized space, it's a win/win. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13641 Registered: Feb-05 | No phono section but hey I no longer have an analog rig or LP's so that's OK. Thank you for the response, Leo. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittStamford, Connecticut USA Post Number: 4226 Registered: May-05 | You got rid of the Clearaudio and your LPs? Next thing I know, I'll find out pro wrestling's been real the whole time. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1935 Registered: Oct-07 | Of COURSE wrestling is real. How else could KTLA (los angeles TV station) have won the first sports EMMY awarded?.....back in 1950....for Wrestling coverage? You don't think an EMMY could be awarded for anything FAKE, do you? For about a decade, Haystacks Calhoun couldn't buy his own lunch in Peoria. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 13649 Registered: Feb-05 | What...pro Wrasslin's not real! I'm destroyed! One of these days I'll tell the whole story of what happened to the turntable and why I threw in the towel. For now let's just say I feel free having let it go. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittStamford, Connecticut USA Post Number: 4228 Registered: May-05 | Hacksaw Jim Duggan got booed out of the arena in his hometown of Glens Falls, NY during a high school wrestling tourney. Not the crowd reaction he was expecting. It was quite comical IMO. He seemed like a nice guy and nothing like the idiot he portrayed in the ring. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1938 Registered: Oct-07 | It's all a form of 'performance art'...... Other than a few whack jobs....like Rowdy Roddy Piper.....who had a terrific, if short 'b' movie career, my absolute all time fave was George 'The Animal' Steele. A real nice guy and a HIGH SCHOOL teacher! He played a role in 'Ed Wood' as Tor (?), the guy discovered by Ed to play the big dumb guy in his movies.....you know, the Igor type. Want some sad insight? Check out Mickey Rourke as 'The Wrestler'. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 15629 Registered: Dec-04 | Mick Foley, and by a mile! Art, when your therapy is successful tell the vinyl story? |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 885 Registered: Oct-10 | I never was a fan of pro wrestling, but I did meet Doink the Clown once. Real nice guy. Owns a construction company in New Jersey. |