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Pls help me choose...NAD/Dynaudio vs Marantz/B+W

 

Anthony
Posted on   
Hi all kinda comparing apples & oranges here. I think I'll be happy with either in my 13'x21' apartment. Just want to get advice on which one is a better value at its price level. Obviously it would be a no brainer if they're the same price.

My original budget is set around US$2k, but wondered if I should fork out a bit more for something that'll last longer.

Dealer A: Marantz SR7300 + 2 pairs B+W 601 S3 + LCR60 center. US$1850 before taxes. Add $190 for 7300ose. No info on 7400. Price is firm.

Dealer B: NAD T762 + 2 pairs Dynaudio Audience 42 + 42C center. US$3180 before taxes. Salesman said T752 can't drive the power hungry Dyns properly. Can probably bargain a bit on price. Let's just say down to $2850 so exactly $1k more than package A.

Thanks a bunch.
 

Hawk
Posted on   
Anthony:

Well, you certainly have good taste! Neither system would be bad or mismatched. Either system will do a great job for you. However, Dealer B is almost exactly what I have decided to get for myself. I feel it is superior for a couple of reasons. First, the NAD receiver is cleaner and more poswerful than the Marantz. As I have said before, after a lot of listening, I have decided the NAD 762 is just about the best receiver out there for under $2K. Its sound is much more like quality separates, rather than a receiver.

Secondly, the Dynaudios are a more accurate and neutral speaker than the B+Ws. They are a truly remarkable speakers and a big step up from the B+W 601s. You may not be old enough to know about the old Rogers LS 3/5a's, but they were the first "mini-monitor" devised by the BBC for use in small studios. Well, the Dynaudio 42s are what the LS 3/5a's were meant to be and without the shortcomings (it is interesting that with all of this talk about the problems with driving 4 ohms speakers, the Rogers was a 15 ohm speaker!). The Dyns are quite extraordinary and present one of the finest soundstages I have ever heard.

I am somewhat surprised about the saleperson's advice that the 752 cannot drive the Dyns, however. I do not think that is true. The Dyns are rated at 4 ohms and the 752 has a dynamic power of 200 wpc x 5 into 4 ohms, certainly more than enough power. Would more power be better? Sure, but when you need to save a buck or two, the 752 will certainly do well with those speakers, especially since you are in an apartment. Figuring the Dyns price at $1800 for the five speakers (the MSRP), you should be able to negotiate a price of no more than $700 for the 752 (its stand alone price at Saturday Audio and Yawa), and probably lower than that. In fact, as I run my calculator, I think you should be able to get a system price of about $2600 with the five Dyns and the 762 and about $2350 for the five Dyns and the 752 (which would be plenty of power for your apartment. Remember, these are my estimates based upon my knowledge of the dealer's cost. Your dealer may not be willing to negotiate that low, but it doesn't hurt to offer a price provided you are willing to make the deal then and there.

If you can't get your dealer below $2850, you can always get the five Dyns from him at full price ($1800) and order your receiver from an online NAD dealer at their sale prices. Buying the 762 online would save you $150, alone

Good luck!
 

alain
Posted on   
yah i think dealer b would be better. i think dynaudio's are the best speakers at their price range. very neutral and natural sounding.

i personally use a marantz 7300 ose with all dynaudios (audience 60s -front, c120+ -center, and 40s-surrounds. i tell you it is sonic nirvana! would have preferred dynaudio countours but they're way out of the budget already.

its a good thing i bought these amazing speakers in the philippines as they cost 3x as much here in toronto.
 

Anthony
Posted on   
Thanks again Hawk & Alain. Exactly the advice & numbers I needed. Now I know my bottom line & if Dealer B doesn't come close I'll be happy to walk over to Dealer A.

Obviously I liked combo B more, but didn't think it's worth paying an extra US$1500 (inc tax) for the difference. When I have a bigger place & a dedicated sound room, I will go for the good stuff (like the $10-20k home theatre suggestion in your other posts). :)

Hawk thanks for your compliments on my taste. Likewise. :) In a previous life I studied the violin for 11 yrs & played in youth orchestras for about 8 yrs, although I was never any good. Now I'm just an overworked software engineer (I took the equivalent of a BSEE + BSCS) who wants some decent tunes after a long hard day's work.

I may have mentioned before, besides NAD & Dynaudio, Dealer B carries good stuff like Arcam, Linn, PMC, McIntosh, etc so I don't think they'll bend over backwards to do a *small* sale like mine. :(

I think maybe I should look South. Here in Canada MSRP for Audience 42 works out to be about US$850/pr, and 42C about US$500, so for the five, US$2200 MSRP! And NAD T762 MSRP is about US$1450. So the combo MSRP is actually a whopping US$3650!!!

I think most European & Japanese brands fixed their Cdn MSRP at 1.5x the US MSRP (ie if you look at the B+W website, their MSRP for say 602 is US$600 or Cdn$900). This made sense in the last few yrs when the US dollar was strong. Obviously with the weaker dollar these days, we're paying 20% more than we need to, right off the bat.

Will keep you guys updated on my quest. Couldn't have narrowed it down to these 2 finalists without insights from all the various postings.

Cheers.
 

Hawk
Posted on   
Anthony:

Wow! I am shocked at the price diffferential between the US and Canadian outlets for the Dyns. Ouch, Ouch, Ouch! As I may or may not have posted before, the Dyn 42s are $699/pair here in the US and the 42C is $399 (hence my calculation of $1800 for all five speakers). Sorry if I took you astray on the calculated price as I was assuming US pricing. I personally am looking at getting three 42Cs for my fronts and a pair of 42Ws for the rear as I need all of them mounted directly to the walls.

Hey, maybe Smitty can help out here. Smitty got his 742 for $650Canadian, so if he sees this, perhaps he call help you with a source for NAD in the North ("del Norte" as we used to call it in California).

As I said before, either system is very good and I also agree that after a hard day's work, you should be entitled to some good sounds to relax to.

Keep warm!
 

Anthony
Posted on   
Hi guys here's my udpate. Went to Dealer B again. They refused to go any lower. Unfortunately they're the only Dyn dealer in town. So it's safe to scratch this one & the Dyns off.

I went to Dealer C, the only other NAD dealer in town. Normally they have the highest prices, but just my luck, they have a NAD clearence! Price for T742 (C$699 or US$525), T752 (C$999 or US$750) are very close to USA prices. And no shipping. T762 is higher (C$1499 or US$1125).

The bonus is, they stock the Marantz 7300ose. I spent hours comparing a T752 (742/762 weren't hooked up) to the 7300ose. Alain you're right, the NAD sounds *slightly* cleaner, but not by much, not against the OSE anyways. The speakers used was a pair of KEF Q5.

I asked about NAD issues. The salesman said they will swap any problem units with new ones. So I end up putting a T742 on hold, but may change my mind & get a T752. Reason is below:

If I get my B&W 601 & LCR60 pkg from Dealer A, I assume a T742 will drive these bookshelves just fine. All I care about is 80% stereo & 20% HT. I did a reality check & decided a 7300ose or T752/T762 would be an overkill for these guys, especially in an apartment setup. Am I wrong?

Hawk & others, what are your opinions on the KEF Q series? Say Q5 fronts, Q1 rears, Q9C center. Will a NAD T742 have enough power to drive these. This setup is about US$400 more than the B+Ws bookshelves. Since the KEFs are shielded, I can put them closer to the TV (I cannot use the unshielded 602 or 603 because of my apartment layout). BTW I liked the Q5 but did not enjoy the Q7 or Q3, one had too much mids & lows, the other too little.

My new questions:

1) Should I go for the B+W 601 pkg, or the KEF Q5 pkg?

2) Based on above, is a T742 sufficient in terms of power, or would I *need* a T752. I don't care about bells & whistles that much, and I probably can't crank the unit up that much inside an apartment unit.

Thanks,

Anthony.
 

John A.
Posted on   
Anthony, take Hawk's advice. Anyone who remembers the Rogers (and others) LS3/5A speakers, and knows their impedance, is a bona fide expert and totally bull-free. I was actually in BBC Broadcasting House a year ago and they still have them as studio monitors.

Unless you wish to fill a very large room, e.g. a meeting hall, I would think the T742 will have plenty of power for either the B&W 601 or KEF Q5 speaker systems, especially if you can confirm these are 8 Ohm speakers which I think they are (the T742 requires 8 Ohms; the T752 will go to 4 Ohms). I keep plugging this link but it is the honest truth:

http://www.nad.co.uk/power/
 

Hawk
Posted on   
Anthony:

B+W or KEF? Tough call--and only you can make it. Both are excellent speakers that resolve the sound from complex music rather well. I think the KEF is a tad more forward sounding (not a bad thing, just a difference) and it has more bass extension than the 601s, but otherwise I think they are very similar in their ability to produce good sound.

I agree with John A. in that I think the 742 would have plenty of steam to drive either sets of speakers, but I am really partial to the 752 myself, so perhaps I should have my opinion discounted here. However, I do think that the additional features of the 752 (bass management, more power, etc.) are worth the difference if you have the money for it.

Let me also say that I am a tad jealous that you were able to hear the NAD against the Marantz 7300ose. Those have become my two favorite brands and the 752 and Marantz 7300ose are at the top of my list for receivers to own, but since they are not in the same dealers in my town, I cannot compare them directly. Thank you for your observations--it helps me a lot.

Cheers!
 

Anthony
Posted on   
Hi Hawk & John A, thanks again for the advices.

1) Forgot to mention, at Dealer C, US$525 fetches a brand new T742 (2 boxes left, that's why I put one on hold). The T752 @ US$750 are all refurbs & the salesman doesn't know what had been worked on. The T762 @ US$1125 is new (1 box left). I don't mind a refurb T752 but $750 seems high. I'll see if they will go lower.

BTW my cost for the 7300ose at Dealer A is about US$935, which would put it half way between the 752 & 762.

All I know is, whichever unit I end up choosing, 742 or 752 or 7300ose, I would be equally happy with its sound. If I take the ose, it would be because of minor things like 6 ch, A/B switch, gold plated jacks, and generally better looks (WAF).

2) Yes comparing the 752 & 7300ose was fun. It was such a close call in 2 ch stereo mode, I could barely remember the difference once I stepped outside the sound room. Whereas I can still clearly remember the Denon 2803 vs Marantz 7300 differeces from over 1 month ago!

Really wish you were there Hawk. Out of all people you deserved a listen. I lucked out because Lenbrook, the company that owns NAD, is also the Canadian distributor for Marantz & KEF! So either way they're getting my money. :)

BTW The salesman said Marantz JUST DISCONTINUED the 7300ose! If you go to the Marantz N.America website, they have replaced the lower x300 line with x400. The 7400 has 7 ch, DPIIx, component switching & video up, and supposedly the latest Crystal chips. But nobody in my town has stock yet.
 

Egil
Posted on   
I'm looking for info on JIM ROGER JR149 speakers. Anyone know about these and where I may get some information/reviews?
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