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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 162 Registered: Oct-10 | Due to some recent threads turning ugly, some points I intended to make were overlooked. Most people in forums like this are familar with the symbol for Ohm's law: E over IR. E = volts, I = current (amps) and R= resistance (ohms) Volts /ohms = amps Volts/amps = ohms amps X ohms = volts. What is a volt? A unit of force as in electromotive force (EMF) or electron moving force. Ohm's law states that it takes 1 volt to push 1 amp through 1 ohm. If all of the above is true, then it follows that it takes 2 volts to push 2 amps through 1 ohm, it takes 2 volts to push 1 amp through 2 ohms and it takes 4 volts to push 2 amps through 2 ohms. This is where current limits enter the picture. Imagine that you need a low power amp to distribute background music through an office. You find an 8 watt per channel 8 ohm stereo amp with a surprisingly beefy power supply. With one speaker connected to each channel, it develops 8 watts by 8 volts pushing 1 amp through 8 ohms. When 2 speakers are connected to each channel, it develops 16 wpc since 8 volts can push 2 amps through 4 ohms. Theoretically the amp should be able to do 32 watts (4 amps) into 2 ohms and 64 watts (8 amps) into 1 ohm. However, the amp and its power supply have....anyone? Anyone?... CURRENT LIMITS! if you are not using any type of transformer or autoformer, and there are no overheat protection or fuses, you will fry this amp! Ohm's law does not over ride current limits! If the amp has a current limit of 2.5 amps, connecting more than 2 speakers per chan is a very bad idea. Even with the volume set to where the amp would do 2 watts into 8 ohms (4 volts at 0.5 amps), 8 speakers will still exeed the amplifier's current limit. It will be developing 16 watts, but with the fomula of 4 volts X 4 amps. Exeeding the current limit is also known as shorting out the amp. You could use an autoformer to connect multiple speakers to an amplifier, but remember: THERE ARE STILL LIMITS AS TO HOW MANY SPEAKERS YOU CAN CONNECT TO THIS AMP! This holds true of any amp regardless of whether you are using a solid state or tube amp or other factors. |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15304 Registered: Jan-08 | Good post Superjazzy! The voltage will droped in regard with the impedance charge if the current furnish by the amplifier is too low resulting in a lower impact on the transducer, there is the reason why the damping was introduce We know that the power supply is the expensive part of a amplifier then it is over used today to reduce the cost against the sound quality! |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 164 Registered: Oct-10 | Thanks Plymouth! It's very sad that companies cut corners this way. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15442 Registered: May-04 | . "Due to some recent threads turning ugly" LOL! " ... 8 speakers will still exeed the amplifier's current limit." Not true. "You could use an autoformer to connect multiple speakers to an amplifier, but remember: THERE ARE STILL LIMITS AS TO HOW MANY SPEAKERS YOU CAN CONNECT TO THIS AMP!" There are limits to everything. As you have made your statement, the number of speakers on "this amplifier" is not one of them. . |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15305 Registered: Jan-08 | There is no limit if you hook it correctly, the limit is only if you hook the speakers in parrallel! 8 speakers under 8 ohms give 1 0hm, most home ampflifiers can't drive under this impedance, the lost in the wire will be enormus as well that the difficulty to control it by the amplifier. 3 set of 3 speakers hooked in serial give 24 ohms then you use the 3 resulting wires that you hook in parrallel will give 8 ohms. 9 speakers under 8 ohms can give 8 ohms! The wattage send to speakers will be divided by 9 for each one! |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 167 Registered: Oct-10 | Seriously Jan? You're not ignoring me AGAIN?! Just how many speakers do you think you can connect to an amp with or w/o an autoformer before you damage it? Have an amp w/o an autoformer handy? Why don't you bypass any output fuses and disable the overheat protection then connect 8 speakers in parallel to each channel and crank up some really active music and let me know what happens okay? Ever hear of GFCI Jan? I'd say it's a safe bet that haven't. A GFCI (GROUND FAULT CIRCUIT INTERUPTER) is the type of circuit breaker used in your house. Most of them won't allow anymore than 20 amps to pass through before they trip. They can be tested with a GFCI tester. It's a 3 prong plug with 3 lights on it. If the outlet is connected properly, a certain light pattern appears. If a different pattern appears, something is wrong. If the outlet is connected properly, you can test it by pushing the black button. They even labeled it "test" just for people like you. If you push the test button and gfci is good, it'll trip! How is this accomplished? When you push the test button, a load of less than 6 ohms is applied accross the hot and ground leads. Guess where I got 6 ohms from Jan. From OHM'S LAW! 120 volts/20 amps = 6 ohms. Granted house voltage may be as low as 110 and there is likely just a piece of metal used making it near zero ohms, but the point is made. If you didn't have GFCIs in your house, an overload would cause the wires to overheat and burn your house down. If you connect to many speakers to your amp, you will in fact short it out (exceeed the current limit) and shut it down. The only thing an autoformer will do is make it possible to connect more speakers. It will NOT make your amp invincible! So Jan, now that this bit of your miss information has been corrected, please go back to the playground with the other little kids and the adults speak so I don't to spank you again. Thanks! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15444 Registered: May-04 | . You were wrong, even P corrected you. A GFCI has nothing to do with how many loudspeakers "this" amplifier can drive. This is a strawman argument which attempts to distract away from your lack of correctness. "If you connect to many speakers to your amp, you will in fact short it out (exceeed the current limit) and shut it down." This too (see? "too"?) is factually incorrect on several levels. "The only thing an autoformer will do is make it possible to connect more speakers." This also is factually incorrect. "It will NOT make your amp invincible!" I, nor any intelligent person I know or know of, has ever claimed it would and anyone can understand that an amplifier does have limits. What you've posted, however, does not contain a literal grain of truth to it as you state it. . |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 168 Registered: Oct-10 | We were talking strictly about parallel here. There series/parallel thing would work, but no mention of it was ever made. Please try to pay attention! Or better yet, go away! |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 169 Registered: Oct-10 | and water in a pipe has nothing to do with electrons in a wire! |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15308 Registered: Jan-08 | Super I used it in many restaurant with many speakers, the 70 volts transfomers are used for very long wire by using small gauge wire, the problem with it is the lost of high frequencies. Jan search you again with his pathetic replies! I understood that you talked about parrallel connection! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15445 Registered: May-04 | . I haven't made any statements about how to connect speakers. And neither had you until you were called on your incorrect statements. Read the posts. You just admitted you were wrong and that you had left out vital information which therefore makes your posts factually incorrect, somewhat dangerous and all but useless save for the fact someone is here to stop others from believing what you post. Beyond that virtually everything you've posted in this thread is still incorrect even after you take into account how the speakers "might" be wired to maintain a constant, viable load. You clearly do not understand how an autoformer or a transformer for that matter operates. There is so little that could be considered even close to informative on a factual basis virtually every sentence you've posted needs correction. . |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15310 Registered: Jan-08 | Jan You talk to me or Superjazzy? |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 170 Registered: Oct-10 | Jan doesn't know who he's talking to or what he's talking about. He's babbling like the idiot he is. Obviously every single thing I posted is absolutely correct. Jan is the kind of person who would hang his elbow over a toilet and wonder why he crapped his pants. He said he'd ignore me. Does he stand by his word? Nope! |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15315 Registered: Jan-08 | Super Look what I founded this morning in the Car audio Amps forum: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/car-audio/658421.html |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 171 Registered: Oct-10 | I guess I'd have to keep typing "in parallel" if I cared in the slightest what Jan thinks because he can't figure that out for himself. Since I don't care in the slightest what little Janny WISHES were true, I'm not going to worry about that. I'd really like to see him try what I said though. 8 speakers in PARALLEL to each channel with no transformers or autoformers, no fuses, circuit breakers, overheat or other protection cranked up good & loud. Keep a fire extinguisher handy! |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1740 Registered: Oct-07 | I have NO idea if it's gonna take a URL this long! http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.reuk.co.uk/OtherImages/ohms-law.g if&imgrefurl=http://www.reuk.co.uk/Ohms-Law.htm&h=369&w=405&sz=9&tbnid=zMsmTLu6R KwUkM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dohm%2527s%2Blaw&zoom=1&q=ohm%27s+law &hl=en&usg=__Jg25CModeQ-jJxklSXcVgTqUE7I=&sa=X&ei=0BbHTP6uA4ecsQPbrt2QDQ&sqi=2&v ed=0CCAQ9QEwAg Do the math: |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 172 Registered: Oct-10 | I don't have to "do the math" to know that what I said here is absolutely correct! Anyone who TRULY knows Ohm's law, current limits and has common sense can see that there is no way you can connect an unlimited number of speakers IN PARALLEL to an amp without killing it! If anyone thinks they can, try it and see what happens! I don't post links because 1) Even when someone, usually Plymouth, posts a link that proves Jan wrong, he still argues. 2) I have better things to do than concern myself with what Jan WISHES were true and 3) Since Jan is not even worthy to lick dog crap off the soles my shoes, I'm not about to post links for his sorry butt. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 175 Registered: Oct-10 | Plymouth did not correct me or say anything contrary to what I was saying. When an amp has an inadequate power supply, the voltage will drop when the speakers exceed to current limits The power supply is trying to give the amp enough volts an current at the same time. Something's gotta give! |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 178 Registered: Oct-10 | Hey everybody, guess what? In another thread, I stated ABSOLUTELY CORRECTLY that subwoofers have larger diameter voice coils than woofers do. Guess what Jan did! He told me I was wrong! Big surprise right? But then he posted a link to prove me wrong about a 9" WOOFER (not subwoofer, but WOOFER) with a 5.1" inch voice coil! I looked at that link and sure enough there was a driver with a 5.1" voice coil, but guess what it was! It was a...(drum roll, symbol crash) SUBWOOFER!!!! Really think he knows EVERYTHING now? I don't! Then again, I never did. https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8822 |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 179 Registered: Oct-10 | See for yourself! |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 192 Registered: Oct-10 | So, like I was saying, if you don't use an autoformer, you probably should not use more than one speaker per channel. If your amp can double its output into 4 ohms, you should not connect more than 2 in parallel. If you use an autoformer, remember, there are still limits to what your amp can handle. Using series/parallel combos is good, but each speaker will only receiver a fraction of the amp's power. If you do this with four speakers, each will get 1/4 of the amp's power. If you use 9, each will get a ninth, etc. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15461 Registered: May-04 | . "If your amp can double its output into 4 ohms" Just a few days ago you were arguing this was impossible. "If you do this with four speakers, each will get 1/4 of the amp's power. If you use 9, each will get a ninth, etc." This is also incorrect. How many does that make for just today? |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 207 Registered: Oct-10 | NONE! If you connect a series/parallel of 4, 8 ohm speakers to an 8 ohm amp, each speaker will get 1/4 of the power! There is NO WAY any speaker is getting more. 8 watts into 8 ohms = 8 volts x 1 amp. 2 speakers in series, each will get half the voltage. 2 in parallel, each will get half the current. 4 volts x 0.5 amps = 2 watts. Each speaker will get 2 watts whether little Janny wants to believe it or not! |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 208 Registered: Oct-10 | I never argued that double power into 4 ohms was impossible. I said that very few solid state amp makers claim that their amps can do so. Most amp makers don't put adequate power supplies in the amps to enable them to do so. Try reading what I actually type instead of conveniently miss quoting me! |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 210 Registered: Oct-10 | Easy way to test! connect a power meter directly to one speaker at a time. Jan won't though. He knows I'm right and can't admit it. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 215 Registered: Oct-10 | My first post in this thread starts with "Due to some recent threads turning ugly.." Jan Vigne say "Lol" to that. Why did they turn ugly? Because Jan Vigne started crap with Plymouth and me in every single one that's why! A thread that I post in NEVER turns ugly until that childish piece of crap comes into it. You see he had to corrupt this one with miss info and stupid childish antics too. What is he doing now? He's crying to administration about what I've said to him. Never does he mention how he brought it on himself. That's okay, I took care of that! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15466 Registered: May-04 | . "I never argued that double power into 4 ohms was impossible." superjazzyJa(me)s Username: Superjazzyjames Post Number: 27 Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 10:26 pm: "Also solid state amps can't even double their power at 4 ohms!"; https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1908264#POST1908264 . |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 220 Registered: Oct-10 | Again Jan you idiot, that's about power supplies, NOT the amps! Again, go have an adult change your diaper and play in your play pen. Oh, that's right, it must be past your bedtime, so get your bottle and go to bed. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15468 Registered: May-04 | . https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1911171#POST1911171 |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1744 Registered: Oct-07 | Super, play any semantic game you want. But please say exactly what you mean. My amp, for example is 83% efficient. Doesn't say much until I add power output, impedance and the fact that it is from 'plug to speaker'. That has more meaning. Even that may not be complete enough a readout for a stickler. And QUIT the name calling. LOL is quite acceptable. You STILL owe the forum and all who read it an apology for what was the single most vulgar post I ever read. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 225 Registered: Oct-10 | Again Leo, Jan owes everyone an apology for what he's said to Plymouth and me, for talking down to everyone, for coming into threads and pouring on the ugliness. Once he apologizes, that's when I will. I don't play semantics, nor am I going to explain every single thing that people can figure out for themselves, but refuse to. I am not worried about pleasing sticklers. Let the sticklers grow out of that lame mentality. Little Janny acts like a child, therefore I treat him as such. Have you noticed that his supporters are not as quick to back him up as they used to be? Could it be that they're sick of the down talking? Or perhaps they've realized that he's not as "in the know" as they thought. Maybe they're wondering why he hasn't tried any of the experiments I suggested, why he hasn't truly manned up and really proved something! But whatever the reason, his heart or his shoes, little Janny stood there on Christmas Eve hating SuperjazzyJa(me)s, but he won't stop SJJ's Christmas from coming, it'll come, somehow or other it'll come just the same. |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1062 Registered: Jul-07 | What a joke. You think you're not hearing from people because we're suddenly concerned about what Jan knows and doesn't know ? Give your head a shake. You're a joke, that's why nobody is bothering with you. You're rude, condecending, and horribly immature. You're poisoning every thread with your nonsense. You're a virus (which reminds me, I need to get my flu shot). Jan is a valued contributor to this forum. You are not. You can only change what we think of you, not what we think of Jan. Now, please continue your little games, Junior. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15477 Registered: May-04 | . Ohhhh, I'd rather he didn't. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 226 Registered: Oct-10 | "You can only change what we think of you, not what we think of Jan." This from someone who talks about open mindedness. If you were really open minded, you'd see little Janny for the childish miss informed fraud he is. Little Janny won't do or even talk about the experiments I recommend. Why not? Because he knows he'll be proven wrong! He won't even man up enough to discuss this issue. Instead, he posts lame links that agree with him. Anyone can do that! Actually prove something by doing it! I don't care what you think about me. However, I will not put up with anyone INcorrecting me. What I post here is absolutely correct. Neither will stand by and watch him miss inform everyone else! |
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Gold Member Username: StryvnWisconsin Post Number: 1238 Registered: Dec-06 | jazzy or james or whatever..... You look like a fool about now. An immature little fool. That's exactly why you're not hearing from anybody. You've added nothing of value to this thread or the forum as a whole. A shame really. Vigne, on the other hand, has helped me tremendously with this hobby in the last 4 years. I appreciate his help, knowledge, passion and the experience he freely shares here. Your tired act cannot change that fact. Chris is right, dude, you can only change what we think of you, not what we think of Jan. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 227 Registered: Oct-10 | Stryn, the only thing foolish here is Jan and people continuing to standby him. Obviously, Jan's confidence in himself is shaken along with everyone's faith in him. There is no getting around the fact that he won't try anything I suggested because he knows he'll be proven wrong! There's no getting around the fact that he and all of his minions are avoiding the subject and there is no getting around the fact that he relentlessly instigates trouble with me and then cries like a little baby to the administration when he gets what he deserves. Grow up and face facts already! |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1063 Registered: Jul-07 | Jan's confidence in himself is shaken along with everyone's faith in him. You're delusional. Really. You're an internet mind reader are you ? FYI, not a good one. You complain about Jan "instigating trouble" with you, and yet YOU go on, and on, and on, and on, about Jan all of the time.....and see no problem with that ? You honestly don't see the hypocrasy there ? "Grow up and face facts already!" You have "facts", everyone else is wrong. We get it. Not exactly a forumula for making friends and influencing people though. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 231 Registered: Oct-10 | Well, Jan did get the ball rolling between him and me. I guess no one sees anything wrong with that? I'd love nothing more than to have peaceful conversations with people. If Jan would kindly pretend I don't exist, I'd pretend he doesn't exist. That is really the only truly mature way to resolve this. He said he was going to ignore me. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 232 Registered: Oct-10 | If you read conversations between me and other people (not just Plymouth), there are peaceful exchanges. I'd prefer to do just that all of the time. If 2 people are both convinced about opposing beliefs, if the one who's wrong continues to believe what is wrong, of what consequence is that to the person who's right? NONE!!! SO JUST LEAVE IT ALONE ALREADY!!!!!!!!! If I plan to do something that could ruin some or all of my equipment and I post those plans that's my problem, not anyone else's I have to pay for whatever equipment is ruined right? It's one thing to say something, but if I'm determined, just let it go. Most of what is talked about here won't harm anything anyway. I mean what if I really had believed in a -3 dB roll off enclosure? (still ROTFLMAO over that one) What if I was determined to believe there is such a thing? What harm is that going to do to anyone or anything. If anyone thinks I said something that's wrong, make a post stating what you think. Everyone else can decide what to believe on their own. This doesn't seem like a hard concept to me.} |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 234 Registered: Oct-10 | Got a new piece of info. |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1064 Registered: Jul-07 | There can be no "discussions" if every time someone questions what you say, you freak the he11 out. You REALLY have issues with someone questioning what you say (btw you should get help with that). You REALLY REALLY have issues with Jan questioning what you say. Have you never been to an audio forum before ? People do tend to get into debates on one thing or another. Yes, I know, your response will be you didn't like HOW Jan questioned/corrected you. Go back and read the original posts (around sensitivity vs efficiency I believe). Nothing wrong with what Jan posted IMO. You CHOSE to take offense, and well, here we are......with you flinging disgusting nonsense on every thread even when nobody is responding to you. Seems a bit out-of-control, doesn't it. Since you and Plymouth are hanging out here now, I'm assuming you're not hanging out somewhere else. I expect you have a pattern of behaviour that you're simply repeating. I'm not sure what brought you here, or why you two seem so intent on educating us on your theories and experiments but I expect it wasn't just our dumb luck. But make no mistake, you will not affect anyones opinion on anyone else here.......only what people think of you. I'll go back to ignoring you now, since I know none of this will sink in and I have more fruitful things to do than hash this out with you further. You can't see what is right in front of you. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 235 Registered: Oct-10 | I don't mind being questioned or disagreed with. Just be respectful which he was not, That was a very condescending post, not to mention long and drawn out with lots of talking in circles and no substance. So ignore me if you want, just see if you can get your friend to do the same. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 236 Registered: Oct-10 | If anyone wants to know what Jan Vigne is all about, go to google and search "jan b vigne" First site to come up will be his myspace account. Take a look! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15479 Registered: May-04 | . I don't have a "myspace" account. That was put there by another forum's member. He was banned for life soon after that for his BS towards anyone who dared to disagree with him by posting facts and real information. Why are you googling my name, james? This is an audio forum. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 237 Registered: Oct-10 | If you are telling me that the myspace account is fake? You better look at that because this raises a whole new level of concern. Never mind the Hitler/Stalin stuff. Is the rest correct? Is that you in the picture? Your current occupation, salary, religion, age, etc. If so, you need to contact administration at myspace and make them aware what's there. You need to have them delete this accont ASAP! If you can honestly tell me that someone made a fake myspace account in your name, then I am truly and deeply sorry for posting this. I will tell everyone to disregard it. I googled you because I was told that you had either a myspace or facebook account with Naz! related info. Again, I am truly sorry for posting this. |
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Silver Member Username: ToothpicPost Number: 158 Registered: Oct-10 | http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=91182&page=0&fpart= 2&vc=1#Post91301 |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15354 Registered: Jan-08 | Jan LOL! Now that you learned what is NFB you post your crap on Guitar forum! User is offline Jan Vigne * * Advanced Member * Group: Members * Posts: 43 * Joined: 02-October 10 Posted 17 October 2010 - 12:28 PM If you've not seen me mention it previously, my experience is more with consumer high end audio (where tubed amplifiers still exist in abundance) than with Marshall amps. The only tubed guitar amplifier I've ever owned was a full amp/speaker combo back in the 1960's and '70's until I sold it for $50 when I was in grad school. (Saw three versions of it yesterday at the Arlington Guitar Show going for as much as $595. [cursing] The seller with the version that had not been serviced and had a faulty foot pedal input and a non-working second input wouldn't budge beneath $300. [flapper] ) I have owned numerous tubed home amplifiers for the last thirty years and I sold high end audio for twenty five of those years. From my perspective amplifiers should never distort or compress the music. Obviously, the opposite of that is more likely the aim of the average rock/blues player. However, one thing about "guitar amps" that I'm not understanding as I get back to using tubes for my guitars is impedance matching warnings. I've read on this forum and seen on numerous speaker/amp manufacturer's websites that matching the load impedance of your speaker system to the correct output tap from your amplifier is of "prime" importance. Many such cautions predict near immediate amplifier immolation if these warning are not strictly observed. Why? In home audio a tubed power amplifier is more than likely going to drive a multi-way speaker system with impedance and phase angle swings which are quite unlike (and far less friendly; http://stereophile.c...son/index4.html) those of a single (common model) driver in even a four-by speaker cabinet for guitar. OK, but even if you mix speaker models in a single cabinet total impedance load is still total impedance load and that's all the amp is primarily concerned with. Almost any manufacturer or sales person in home audio - if they know what they're doing - will suggest the user experiment with which output tap from the transformer will "sound best" with the chosen speaker system. The four Ohm tap will sound quite different than the 16 Ohm tap - but the amplifier will not destroy itself due to that loading. The output impedance of the amplifier will rise or fall given the the tap selected. This means a higher or lower damping factor in the system - the amplifier will better control the driver's motion and better resist the back EMF from the speaker system which allows for overall lower NFB specs (a good thing in home audio as this affects the amp's stability into low impedance loads or under excessive clipping conditions). A mismatch of output tap and speaker load will result in some alteration of the transfer function of the circuit meaning a higher or lower output power by a small percentage and a rise or fall of THD (which is important in home audio). But the average home audio amplifier would operate well even under severely mismatched load conditions, it just won't sound its best. So what about a tubed guitar amplifier is different that makes such dire warnings of Approaching Amplifier Armegeddon necessary? Looking at the schematics for a few tubed amplifiers I don't see a simple reason. Has anyone mistakenly loaded the 16 Ohm tap with a four Ohm system and had their amplifier go up in flames? Many valve tube guitar amplifiers does not have NFB! The distortion sound much better without! |
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Silver Member Username: ToothpicPost Number: 159 Registered: Oct-10 | http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/shady/messages/1410.html |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15355 Registered: Jan-08 | Gregraf Go play in sattellite forum! |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15356 Registered: Jan-08 | Jan Vigne * * Advanced Member * Group: Members * Posts: 43 * Joined: 02-October 10 Posted 23 October 2010 - 12:07 PM View PostPete.R, on 23 October 2010 - 11:09 AM, said: Depends on the side of the view........ :unsure: He ended bad.... [omg] He's gone?! :o How will I break the news to mom? :P So, you can tell me, what happened? A run in with ... "you know who"? Sometimes you just give up trying to teach a pig to talk, you know? It only frustrates you and the pig is no better for the experience. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- Pete.R * * Advanced Noob * Group: Members * Posts: 3843 * Joined: 02-January 09 Posted 23 October 2010 - 01:09 PM View PostJan Vigne, on 23 October 2010 - 12:07 PM, said: He's gone?! :o How will I break the news to mom? :P So, you can tell me, what happened? A run in with ... "you know who"? Sometimes you just give up trying to teach a pig to talk, you know? It only frustrates you and the pig is no better for the experience. I could tell you - I don't want to do. [-( All I know is, here aren't pigs! Most of us are "musicians" not engeneers, and we used to play guitar amps and not "home audio tube amps". Keep it easy man ! Do you really think anybody read those "Mega-Posts" with all the links ? Think of "helping" others - not "teaching" them..... it's a better way to make friends....... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jan Vigne * * Advanced Member * Group: Members * Posts: 43 * Joined: 02-October 10 Posted 23 October 2010 - 01:33 PM View PostPete.R, on 23 October 2010 - 01:09 PM, said: I could tell you - I don't want to do. [-( All I know is, here aren't pigs! Most of us are "musicians" not engeneers, and we used to play guitar amps and not "home audio tube amps". Keep it easy man ! Do you really think anybody read those "Mega-Posts" with all the links ? Think of "helping" others - not "teaching" them..... it's a better way to make friends....... [cool] Yeah, I do expect there a some people who want to learn something they don't already know or actually understand. Not everyone wants to be totally incurious about things. Not everyone believes everything is simple black and white as told by someone who once knew an "expert". You have a problem with that? You sound like the kind of kid you sat in the back of the class and threw stuff or cut fa rts just to disrupt anyone else learning anything. If you or anyone else doesn't care to know anything, do you think it's best to complain about someone else wanting to? Did I hold a gun to your head and force you to read anything? That would be impossible, wouldn't it? My intent is not to force you or to lead you by the hand. If you like not knowing stuff, I really don't care - you can join the "huddled masses" and be as happy as that pig in the mud. If you think that makes you a better player - modes just to hard for you? too much reading and "understanding"? - then you go right ahead and ignore what I post and we won't have any problems here. My name's at the front of each of my posts so you can skip along to somewhere else if information bothers you. I said I didn't come here to make enemies but you and another fellow here are making it far more difficult than need be. I'll respect you if you respect me. What's your problem with that arrangement? You like causing trouble on this forum? I'm not noticing you being able to point to any flaws in what I've posted so far or, more importantly, to actually answer my questions. You and mtheory seem better at attacking someone than you do at actually knowing stuff. You both sound like a couple of los ... well, you two haven't put out the welcome mat, have you? I'm asking for the difference between home audio amplifiers like I've been around for decades vs guitar amps. Strict impedance matching isn't required on any tubed and transformer coupled amplifier I've come across other than all the warnings I'm seeing about it with the curent crop of guitar amps. I don't remember seeing anything about this when I owned a tubed amplifier back in the 1960's. It's an honest question. So back off the "home audio" BS, "friend". You have an answer to the question or are you just here to be annoying? As for not wanting to tell me? Why don't we just keep it that way and you stay away from me? Ignorance isn't catching as far as I know but I'd hate to take the chance with someone who has such a virulent case. You are a pest Jan Vigne! |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15357 Registered: Jan-08 | how to contact administrators Jan Vigne * * Advanced Member * Group: Members * Posts: 43 * Joined: 02-October 10 Posted Today, 01:21 PM As a newcomer to the forums I seem to be having some personality issues with one particular member. How do I contact the administrators of the forum? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- Jan Vigne's Profile User Rating: ----- Jan Vigne's Photo * Find Topics Find My Content * Display name history Reputation: -10 Poor |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15358 Registered: Jan-08 | Again his Bla Bla here: Valve jr. as an "acoustic" amp? #1 User is offline Jan Vigne * * Advanced Member * Group: Members * Posts: 43 * Joined: 02-October 10 Posted 17 October 2010 - 11:57 AM I just purchased a vj head on sale for $99. Now I'm wondering about an issue I consider to be confusing to many; that mysterious beast called an "acoustic amplifier". IMO an acoustic amp is largely the result of someone in marketting coming up with an idea for selling more amplifiers, "Hey, what if we put a different face on it and sold it as an 'acoustic amplifier'." For which that guy received a healthy bonus that year. As I've asked around at guitar shows and various retailers I've yet to receive what I consider to be an appropriate answer to my question, "Just what is an "acoustic amp" vs. an "electric amp"? "Cleaner", "less distorted", "voiced different", "sealed back to the speaker" and so forth have been the most common replies. OK, but where does that difference exist in the "acoustic amp"? In the case of an "acoustic head", say this head; http://guitars.music...Head?sku=583793, what makes this an "acoustic device"? Surely it will play with an electric guitar's input just as any "electric amplifier" will make sound with an acoustic guitar's output. Assuming most amplifiers will be designed with a reasonable amount of (possible) neutrality allowing the user to tailor their own sound rather than the head imposing a non-relenting character on the sound from intentional frequency shifting or other circuit pecadilloes, how, in your opinion, does the VJ stack up as a system which can also accept the input from an acoustic guitar? For now, my experiments with the VJ head will be limited to rolling a few tubes and finding an appropriate speaker. I've been looking at a few raw drivers to put into a DIY cabinet and for both the tubes and the driver I've stayed away from those items which immediately begin describing the "crunch" of overdriven inputs. I play clean with a small amount of added reverb from an outboard device, acoustic blues to Gatemouth Brown and some nice Scotty Moore stuff are the mainstays. Even if I'm trying to sound like the Beano album, I avoid excessive distortion. More "Alberta" than '60's "Crossroads". I play my Martin more than I play my Stratocaster yet either is for my own enjoyment and volume levels are of the living room sort. Five clean watts into a 95dB speaker will never be taxed. So what's the opinion out there? 0 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- #2 User is offline mtheory * * Member * Group: Members * Posts: 19 * Joined: 24-September 10 Posted 19 October 2010 - 05:43 PM What makes you say that guitar amps are neutral? They're anything but, which is why players have very specific preferences that they tend to lean towards. The vjr is possibly the worst choice you could make for an acoustic guitar amp, frankly. It's virtually incapable of producing clean, articulate sound at any volume that would be considered usable (in the case of an acoustic, you've got to at least get above the volume of the guitar itself, right?), and it's generally a very dark, rather dull and mushy tone, in general. For acoustic guitar, much like keys, you want an amp with lots of clean headroom that is capable of producing a full range of frequencies, not just the little slice of bandwidth that a typical electric guitar amp produces. That's why you'll generally see bass ports and tweeters of some kind, along with a traditional cone speaker, in your average keyboard and acoustic guitar amp cabinet. There's an awful lot of upper and lower harmonics generated from the acoustic guitar soundboard that would be utterly lost in an electric guitar amp. In general, an acoustic guitar amp has to be far more sophisticated than a typical electric guitar amp, because you're attempting to reproduce all of those magical harmonics of the acoustic guitar in amplified form, whereas with an electric guitar, there's not the same complex myriad of harmonic overtones present at the source. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- mtheory * * Member * Group: Members * Posts: 19 * Joined: 24-September 10 Posted Yesterday, 10:54 AM Quote I don't understand "PA in a combo format". What distinctions are you drawing between a "PA" and an amplifier/speaker system? A PA amp, a keyboard amp, and an acoustic guitar amp would all be more in line with your hi-fi amps, than with your typical tube guitar amp. They're designed to amplify a much wider range of frequencies, and to do so as cleanly and efficiently as possible, given the specific output wattage of the amp. Electric guitar tube amps not only have a much narrorwer frequency response range, but also benefit from the fact that they produce distorted tones, even when the notes SOUND "clean." The warmth and fatness of a typical tube guitar amp is because of this inherent, albeit sometimes unheard distortion. While you most certainly can plug an electric guitar straight into a PA mixer, the resulting tone will be "sterile," "lifeless," and even "harsh." It's really about the worst option there is for amplifying electric guitar signal. Conversely, you can certainly plug an acoustic guitar into an electric guitar tube amplifier, but the resulting tone will be limited in frequency response and distorted. Neither of those characteristics are ideal for acoustic guitar, since much of the beauty of acoustic guitar tone comes from the clear ringing out of complex harmonics that resonate from the soundboard, and across the entire guitar. I believe that the comment about there being a mic input on many acoustic guitar amps has to do with comparing the design of the amp itself to be akin to a typical PA amp design, with regard to distortion-free, high-headroom amplification. Many, but not all, acoustic guitar amps, have a mic input, so that the average coffee house performer can bring just a single, small amp to a typical gig. As to specific topology, it doesn't matter whether the amp is in head form or combo. Either will drive a speaker load. For most acoustic players in need of on-stage amplification, combo format is easier to tote around, so that's become the more common format, that's all. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- Versatile * * Advanced Member * Group: Members * Posts: 617 * Joined: 08-September 10 * LocationMidlands UK Posted Yesterday, 11:01 AM Excellent post ! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- * Back to top of the page up there ^ #14 User is offline mtheory * * Member * Group: Members * Posts: 19 * Joined: 24-September 10 Posted Today, 08:28 AM Jan, I really don't for the life of me know why you bother asking anything here, unless it's just to give yourself an opportunity to be argumentative and pretend that you know more than someone else. You clearly haven't any interest whatsoever in somebody else's opinion, whenever it differs with yours, and since you clearly have virtually zero real world experience of your own, and yet aggressively cast aside advice and input from those who do, I really can't see any point for your questions. You already know everything there is to know. You're an audio God, amongst mere mortals. We all can only bow to your magnificance and brilliance. We're in awe and are so fortunate to be in the presence of such a brilliant mastermind. Thank you for blessing we humble idiots with your astounding glory, almighty one. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- Jan Vigne * * Advanced Member * Group: Members * Posts: 43 * Joined: 02-October 10 Posted Today, 09:41 AM Oooooooh, you're a sly one, Mr. Grinch! [sneaky] Let me get this straight; if I don't simply accept what you say without question, I haven't any interest in other people's opinions? Even when I thank you for them. If I indicate I do have real world knowledge and experience, they aren't sufficient for you because I am a "hifi" experience person? And you see a vast gulf between "audio" and "guitar audio" because you claim to know "guitar audio". If I disagree with your opinions, I am insulted with this sort of post? Nice community spirit you've got going here. Did I ever thank you for your welcome-to-the-forum note? mtheory, you've already proven to me this is what you will resort to when questioned. Wouldn't that attitude, if you were in my place, make you just a bit leery of the person providing the take it or leave it opinion? I'm just the person asking the questions and providing support for my opinions. In case I haven't stated it yet; you are entitled to your own opinions and I can see you have many of them all firmly entrenched and unmovable by objective disagreement and facts to the contrary. I thanked you for your opinions and said I would move on to what others had to contribute. What more do you want? Why are you insulting me for that? Do you have any idea what the concept of a "forum" is and how it is meant to operate? http://www.thefreedictionary.com/forum You are not entitled to your own "facts" in that you fail to present any. I've asked you for objective proof of what you claim and you simply repeat your opinions without even a glance towards proving them. What exactly is wrong with asking you to prove what you claim? You and another member seem to have quite a bug under your skin about being asked to verify what you have said. If I am, as you claim, such a "zero real world experience" type, why not help out with some real world objective facts rather than just repeating your opinions - opinions, I might add, which make no sense to my real world experience. If you dislike my proof for harmonics which extend out into infinity and describe to our ears what instrument is playing, prove me wrong. But do not insult me for placing my proof into the discussion. I'm not a newbie, mtheory, and I can read. Once you've stated an opinion, I can see what it is. If it makes no sense to me, runs counter to what I believe to be factual or requires clarification, I'm then going to ask you for some proof of what you have said. Asking you to provide some form of proof is not asking you to just repeat what you've already said. If I wanted that sort of mind numbing discourse, I would be on the politics forums. Tell me, mtheory, have you ever run across the concept of "transference"? http://search.yahoo....nsference&type= This forum's moderators appear to be very intolerant of disagreements which rise to even the slightest bit of insult. One thread has aleady been shut down due to another member's preference for not knowing anything. I'm going to assume this is what you're attempting here, mtheory, and say I find it quite rude behavior on your part. I'd like to have this thread go forward and I'd prefer to have other members input their opinions and information without the fear of disagreeing with you. I've posted one review of the VJ which runs counter to your opinions of the amplifier. Why not go provide that person with your opinions and insights and leave me alone until you can proivide more than the same opinions repeated in exactly the same way over and over? So, to repeat for you, thank you once again for your input. If you should come across any objective proof for what you've claimed, let me know. I hope to hear from others with their information on the VJ head. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- User is offline mtheory * * Member * Group: Members * Posts: 19 * Joined: 24-September 10 Posted Today, 10:39 AM If you refuse to believe the things I've seen with my own lying eyes and heard with my own lying ears, TRY THEM YOURSELF. * READ the article from Mercury Magnetics that discussed that tube amps for guitar are very different from tube amps for hi-fi, and that guitar amps DO distort, ALL THE TIME. Don't take my word for it. After all, I've only read it for myself and offered it up as proof to you. Read it for yourself, and you MIGHT just find yourself surprised! If not, you can always contact Mercury Magnetics and argue with them about it, since you seem to think you know so much more than their engineers. * Grab a 31 band eq, plug your guitar into, and PROVE TO YOURSELF that virtually nothing matters below 80hz or above 15k (more accurately for electric guitar, 10-12k, in reality). Instead of mocking someone who's done this for himself, I'd suggest you actually TRY IT. You MIGHT just find yourself surprised! * Take your class A Vjr to a local amp tech, have him plug it in on the bench, throw it up on the scope, and see for yourself that a Class A amp is full on, all the time. Don't take my word for it, but also, don't mock me because I happen to have seen it for myself. See it for yourself, and you MIGHT just find yourself surprised! * Take a tube amp, any tube amp, into a tech, have him throw it up on the scope, and try all different tap and load combinations, to see for yourself what is the most efficient for that given amp. Then, do the same with several other amps. Eventually, you'll see a pattern emerge, and that pattern is that YOU CANNOT MAKE A BLANKET STATEMENT about what loads are best for EVERY AMP, because EVERY AMP is DIFFERENT! Don't take my word for it! I'm an idiot, remember? See it with your own lying eyes, and you MIGHT find yourself surprised! Get yourself an acoustic guitar amp and an A/B pedal, and switch back and forth between your Vjr and the real deal, and see for yourself that an acoustic amp IS designed better for acoustic guitar. Don't just mock those who've tried it for themselves. Listen to it for yourself, and you MIGHT just find yourself surprised! I'm real sorry that I'm just not going to waste my time seeking out the "proof" that you're asking for. Not because I don't think it exists, but rather, because I'm convinced that you won't believe it anyways. It'll be a complete waste of time. I KNOW what I've seen and heard. THAT is what I'm basing my comments on. Can you provide proof to me that I haven't seen and heard what I've seen and heard? Because, if not, then you've got even less than I do, don't you? I've at least got personal experience backing me up. How about you try being polite instead of arrogant, argumentative, and demeaning? If you'll be honest with yourself, I'm sure you'll see that you really haven't given yourself the footing to be arrogant or condescending to anyone. After all, you were the one who tried to convince others to hook two 16 ohm cabinets in series, and plug that 32 ohm load into the 16 ohm jack on a Vjr, among other misinformation, right? You should've learned a bit of humility by now, one would think. You've proven beyond any shadow of doubt that you don't, in fact, know everything after all. Btw, I've not insulted you. If anything, it's YOU who's insulted me, by mocking my comments and suggestions. What I HAVE done, is to try to inject some correct information along the way, in order to counter your misinformation, so that others reading won't be misled into doing something that might actually cause harm to their amp. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- The complete thread: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/56879-valve-jr-as-an-acoustic-amp/page_ _p__766445#entry766445 |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15360 Registered: Jan-08 | 04-16-08, 12:45 PM #58 | Link QueueCumber Eat Yer Vegetables QueueCumber's Avatar AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Farmer McGregor's Garden Posts: 6,066 Classified Rating: 100% 1 Quote: Originally Posted by KBK View Post Head on over to the Stereophile forums. Where we can talk about things like cables, without coming to blows. There's a tremendous amount of audio experience there. There can be far too much of a factitious nature to the posts and direction here, many a time, to recieve a balanced view. Nothing wrong with the vast majority of folks here, but it has developed into a specific roosting and ruling 'clique', with specific ideas about audio which serve only the protracted view-and go not one step further. Too bad, there's so much more world out there. KBK, there are too many rude a$$holes on those fora. Given, there are a few people here on these AVS fora that want to tell you how to go about being an audiophile, but at least their basis is scientific (even if they are overbearing jackasses IMO). I found there were just as many people at the Stereophile fora who want to tell you how to be an audiophile as well, except their arguments are based in masturbatory fantasies with no basis in reality (such as Buddha and Jan Vigne )... I still like the magazine and read a good portion of each issue, like the measurements, reviews (usually only for speakers) and album recommendations, but the fora were definitely not my cup of tea. __________________ "It is worse still to be ignorant of your ignorance." -- Saint Jerome (374 AD - 419 AD) My Home Theatre http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=133856b7dd37ae0ec64017158bd13a81 &p=13656105#post13656105 |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15480 Registered: May-04 | . I have almost 25k posts scattered across several forums. Are you going to copy/paste each one? Why? Everyone here knows me and everyone here has seen me be both pleasant to those who are pleasant and unpleasant to those who are unpleasant to me first. It's obvious you creeps are not here to discuss audio. FYI you aren't even in the same league with the guy who created that myspace account. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15481 Registered: May-04 | . "Many valve tube guitar amplifiers does not have NFB! The distortion sound much better without!" You've already proven you don't know anything about guitar amplifiers and speakers, why not leave it at that? . |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15361 Registered: Jan-08 | #2 User is offline mtheory * * Member * Group: Members * Posts: 19 * Joined: 24-September 10 Posted 19 October 2010 - 05:43 PM What makes you say that guitar amps are neutral? They're anything but, which is why players have very specific preferences that they tend to lean towards. The vjr is possibly the worst choice you could make for an acoustic guitar amp, frankly. It's virtually incapable of producing clean, articulate sound at any volume that would be considered usable (in the case of an acoustic, you've got to at least get above the volume of the guitar itself, right?), and it's generally a very dark, rather dull and mushy tone, in general. For acoustic guitar, much like keys, you want an amp with lots of clean headroom that is capable of producing a full range of frequencies, not just the little slice of bandwidth that a typical electric guitar amp produces. That's why you'll generally see bass ports and tweeters of some kind, along with a traditional cone speaker, in your average keyboard and acoustic guitar amp cabinet. There's an awful lot of upper and lower harmonics generated from the acoustic guitar soundboard that would be utterly lost in an electric guitar amp. In general, an acoustic guitar amp has to be far more sophisticated than a typical electric guitar amp, because you're attempting to reproduce all of those magical harmonics of the acoustic guitar in amplified form, whereas with an electric guitar, there's not the same complex myriad of harmonic overtones present at the source. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15482 Registered: May-04 | . There's nothing real about any of the personal information on that myspace page. It was created by an @sshole who thought it was funny to embarrass people. Like a lot of childish jerks, he wasn't on the forums to discuss audio, he liked the idea of embarrassing people while enjoying the anonymity of the internet. He was banned from that forum for life for what he did to a few people. I suspect by now he's been banned from so many forums he can't even keep count - and it doesn't matter, he creates a new identity and sneaks back on until they boot him off again. This guy's forgotten more about being a huge pr!ck than you two will ever come up with together. When he posted the page he added a few other things meant to get to me and even the guys who were siding with him backed off and told him he had crossed several lines. This was someone who thought making softp0rn b0ndage videos was a hoot. He's still out there on other forums doing the same thing to other people, he's sick and pulling this sh!t on people who simply disagree with him is his favorite passtime. I won't give you his name but you could Google him and come up with way more pages of people who have a real hatred for him and what he does. And, really, he still isn't the worst I've had to deal with. One of the "guys" he hangs with on the forums is so sick he was on the internet insulting people the day of his son's funeral. See what you have to look forward to becoming? I haven't looked at the page in several years when it was posted on that forum but it had some quotes from a review I did for Tim Forman and his speaker designs. The entire review is on this forum and it's good enough that it brought Tim a good bit of business. Other than that, nothing is real. There are several people on this forum who have been to my house and I to their's. They can tell you that's not my profile. Almost anyone who has been on this forum for more than a few months has a general idea what I look like and my background so they can also tell you that's not my photo or my information. So, why are you Googling my name? If you came here to discuss audio, that's not how you go about it. If you're here now to try your hand at embarrassing me, don't bother. You guys are rank amateurs compared to several I've run across. I actually take some pride in the fact almost everyone who has tried to take me on has proven themself to be psychopathic, sociopathic or so mentally off balance all it took was a word from me to set them off. No brag, just fact. Almost all of them eventually cross a line and get themself banned. If you think copy/pasting any of the 25k posts I have on the internet will bother me, you're wasting your time. I don't get embarrassed by the idiots and fools who come to forums just to be d!cks. Look at the post p copied, I have to defend knowledge and wanting to learn something new from the stupid insults of someone just like you guys who isn't smart and doesn't want to be smart so he can only use insults against anyone who can provide a link to what they are claiming. I should be bothered by fools like that?! Guys, I get that sh!t all the time. There's always someone who wants to tell everyone how much they know when, like you two, they don't know jacksh!t. And, like you, they're all grade A goofballs. It used to bother me some when I couldn't figure out why anyone would come to an audio forum and yet they were absolutely incapable of intelligently discussing audio and so they resorted to insults and posting insulting crap to and about me. There's been so many like you, I've lost count. But, since I have good information to offer to anyone who honestly wants to learn and I'm more than willing to discuss audio with them in a intelligent manner, I've never been kicked off a forum and I'm not interested in starting now. Like you guys will eventually find out, I will still be here when you're long gone and all but your sh!tty personalities forgotten. You aren't here to discuss audio any more than the guy who posted that myspace page so you'll move on to another forum where you can still be trolls and you'll have someone else to insult. And then you'll start getting banned too. I suppose I would have been better off hiding behind a fake name and that anonymous internet wall of saying crap to people who would otherwise tear your f'ing head off. Your kind of "men" get big balls when you aren't looking someone in the eye. But I stand behind what I say and I don't say anything until I know I can prove it. That's not how trolls like you guys work. If you put your actual name on this forum, and, if I wasn't interested in civility on this forum, you'd be dead in a week. You two don't have what it takes. You're just two dumb rocks who deny you said what I can prove you did say. You're idiots who don't know what magnet wire or cable resonance is and think there's a difference between woofers and subwoofers. One of you is so slow you didn't even catch on that you were insulting the other about a link to a woofer - except there was nothing to insult anyone over because you're so dim not a thing you've said has been correct. [i]Sheeeez![/i] You're just another pair of pyschos without a life who aren't here to discuss audio and you think it's a hoot to be a d!ck. When you've proven you're an idiot who can't defend what you say, like you two have, word gets around. I know I can stand behind what I've said and I always have, the guy who posted that page doesn't care what he says - he's not there to discuss audio any more than you are. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15483 Registered: May-04 | . "I googled you because I was told that you had either a myspace or facebook account with Naz! related info." Who told you that? Why'd they tell you? What are you doing, james? Like p you think it's "smart" to talk about someone behind their back? You'll tell people not to visit the page? But you posted the page. You didn't bother to check what was there any more than you bother to check anything. You aren't here to discuss audio and you certainly aren't here to be civil. What the f**k is wrong with you two? . |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1065 Registered: Jul-07 | You two are pathetic cowards. What you are attempting to do is disgusting. Your parents should be very proud. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 240 Registered: Oct-10 | First, I can assure you that I don't make fake myspace pages nor do I approve of it. I showed a lady I know your post about the -3 dB enclosure and she busted out laughing how stupid you are for falling for that. Her father was an electronic engineer and she's in school be one too. She assured me that 99% of what you say is DEAD WRONG! Then she saw your name and said she had run across you on either myspace or facebook and said there was a bunch of Naz! propaganda on there. That's why I googled you. It just never occurred to me that someone would make a fake page like that. I AM here to discuss audio as I was doing when I first entered ecoustics. I just have no interest in discussing it with you. Want to talk about being a jerk? How about getting on me and persuing me relentlessly? As soon as I looked at a thread, I saw that you were talking down to people, not just Plymouth, but everyone. I knew right then I wanted nothing to do with you. Regardless of knowledge or lack there of, there is no excuse to talk to people like that. Maybe other people put up with that because they think you know so much and they have no self respect, not me. I have self respect and refuse to be talked down to. If I were an ecoustics administrator, you would have been warned once, then your account would have been suspended. If that didn't teach you, you'd be banned for life. The fact that people want to hurt you in some way should tell you something. It's not because they have mental problems. A few? Yeah, but everyone who dislikes you? No! Just like most people, I don't use my real name because it's a very bad idea for anyone to do so. I wish for your sake and the sake of everyone else who does that all of you would remove your real names from your account. No, I don't like you, but I do care about personal safety, even yours. Again, the most mature thing you and I can do is pretend each other don't exist. If you disagree with something I say, make a post stating what you think, just not directed at me as in no mention of me, my post etc. I'll do the same with regard to you. Everyone who reads our posts can decide what to believe. You stay out of threads that I start and I'll stay out of threads that you start. If the end result is that Plymouth is the only person that talks to me, that's fine. That won't bother me one little bit. Okay? Can you at least agree to just leave me alone? That's all I ask or ever have asked of you. Something short, simple like and to the point "Agreed James, I'll leave you alone, you'll leave me alone." will suffice. Thank you! |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15362 Registered: Jan-08 | Jan Why so much peoples does not like you? You reply again with insult! I invite you to read your own posts to see that you are the problem! You insulted peoples then you come cry that you are the victim Your ego is a little too high! Note that I looked to the Facebook page then I I saw at once that it was false, but why a guy created this account? According to your actual attitude, I'm not to much surprise! I am not considered as being rude with peoples which are not rude with me but your way of answering is openly offensive! |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 242 Registered: Oct-10 | Plymouth please don't say anything more to him. It might be seen as antagonizing. There is nothing to be gained by pushing the issue. I just want a peaceful resolve that I'm sure everyone would enjoy regardless of what they think about any member(s) of this site. So, let's just back off and let Jan respond when he's ready okay? |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15366 Registered: Jan-08 | Super There is too much proof over the internet where Jan was rude with peoples! I also want peace but he always come back with insult to each replies searching for troubles! I can post many other posts from many other sites where Jan was rude but I will give him a break now hoping he stop his BS! |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 243 Registered: Oct-10 | Thanks Plymouth! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15484 Registered: May-04 | . "Just like most people, I don't use my real name because it's a very bad idea for anyone to do so. I wish for your sake and the sake of everyone else who does that all of you would remove your real names from your account. No, I don't like you, but I do care about personal safety, even yours." On this we agree. If I had it to do over and I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have posted my full name and city address. I've blocked my email address on this forum and any other for just the reasons you cite. I now consider it dangerous to fill out most forum profiles since there are no filters in most cases. I have been challenged to bar fights and told someone will be waiting outside my door one night. Not because I disagreed with either of those two members who threatened me but because I disagreed with someone they agreed with. That person posted, among other things, "The Little Black Kid" joke on a forum and thought it was a hoot. He was banned twice for his attacks on me personally and finally banned for life for his similar actions towards another member. I was then the subject of a seven page thread entitled, "Let's Get Jan". Mind you, I had not caused the banning, the person who was banned simply had no concept of what crossing the line meant and continued to do so despite multiple warnings. But I had disagreed with him about audio - nothing more - and he and several others thought that reason enough for two years and finally seven pages of attacks on me. Since that time one of those members has spent his time sending PM's to other forum members advising them about certain "information" pertaining to me which he claims to possess. Every now and again another member with whom I disagree on audio will pull a bit of it out as a personal attack on me when they have nothing else to use in response to my simply asking them to defend what they say. So, yes, as a group the people who have a dislike for me tend to not be all that mentally stable or morally grounded. The person who created the myspace page also posted pictures of my house and said it was a shame he couldn't look inside my windows. From there his attacks became even more personal. When challenged to a real world test, he weenied out of it saying the address was too difficult to find when he was so busy. He and I had a several year long conflict in which he tried to discredit anyone who held beliefs about audio which ran contrary to his own. I was not the only person on that particular forum with whom he had long standing and firey battles and as an over 60 retiree he spent most of his time on various forums under various sock puppet names doing the same to anyone who disagreed with him about audio. As I mentioned, he had made softp0rn, b0ndage videos to promote his audio business and carried himself on the forums as someone who would do such a thing. Everthing he was called on was a "joke" in his thinking and it was just the person being attacked who lacked the sophistication to realize the humor in the situation. I've had people who I disagree with about audio get themself liquored up on a weekend by weekend schedule and post what a horrible person I am in full graphic detail as they envisioned it just before they passed out. And I've had numerous people who spent their time pulling up out of context posts I had made on other threads in an attempt to embarrass me. I've even had a forum moderator once tell me the person with whom I was trying to discuss frequency response was complaining because I had placed his forum username in my posts in order to ask him a question. When you have 25k posts on several forums and you are willing to stand behind the information you post, you are going to attract the flakes and the nuts. It always begins as a disagreement about audio and thm quickly turns to their attempts to destroy me - not by attacking my words but by attacking me personally. I have members here with whom I disagree and some who probably have an intense dislike for me. I stand behind what I post. I didn't expect to agree with everyone, I just came here to discuss those diagreements and see where we might agree at some piont. For what other reason would you come to an audio forum? If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have used my full name and address because the really sick people think it's smart to create myspace pages and invade my privacy or threaten me with physical violence. Then the people who have no interest in discussing audio but think looking at something which is so obviously fake but uncomplimentary to me will allow them some superiority to go ahead and believe the BS on that page and that will make everything else they've said and done alright. I have to wonder, why would you look if that was not your intent? I don't know but you're not the first to do so, james. If you want to "discuss" audio, ask yourself just why you looked and why you mentioned it on this forum. What were you looking for when you went to the page, what did you think you had found depsite the obvious falseness of all the claims and what were you expecting to accomplish when you mentioned it here? Tell me that. I'll have more about your post later. Right now I have more important things to do. . |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15375 Registered: Jan-08 | Jan Congrat! Maybe the best way to talk with others persons is like on this post! Agreed with you that it turned in vinegar but word like >liar, you are wrong again, false then all these negative replies which shock everybody making that the war start. I'm ready for the peace but please read your posts before to see if that can offense the others. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 244 Registered: Oct-10 | Challenged to bar fights? Someone waiting outside for you? Posting pictures of your house? Bondage p0rn? Okay, this individual has a serious problem! I certainly hope you reported this guy to law enforcement. I see now why you were concerned about me. Then again, I have to wonder about a guy who needs to get drunk in order to face you or anyone else online. I have no intention of harming or threatening you in any way, nor do I wish anything bad on you. As for looking at and posting the link, my friend was genuinely concerned that I was talking to someone with a myspace page like that. She was relieved for my sake that it was fake and sickened that anyone would make a fake account like that. I guess when I saw that page, I was alarmed and thinking that you were a dangerous psycho yourself, I wanted to warn everyone. Again, I'm very sorry about posting that link. However, this proves my point that anyone can post links that say anything. You can post a link that says what you believe and I can post a link that says what believe. That doesn't prove a thing to me. I'm sure there are companies that don't differentiate between a woofer and a subwoofer, not any companies that I would do business with mind you. Other companies make clear distinctions and they talk about vc diameters, strength of magnetic fields, etc. I did the experiments I did when I was young back when there was no internet. I lived a small town where there just wasn't much to do. That was a long time ago, but I have an excellent long term memory and I remember exactly happened. That to me is how you prove things. What I didn't appreciate was that every post you made where you disagreed with someone had a condescending tone. Now maybe that wasn't how you meant it, but that is how it came across. That's probably Plymouth's perception too, you'd have to ask him. I don't intend to continue the insult circus any longer. Right now, I want you to simply leave me alone. If you don't, I will be talking to administration night and day until they put an end to it. Peaceful talks in the future? If I feel that you and I can speak with mutual respect which includes ageeing to disagree when no agreement can be reached, certainly. Insults? Never ending debates? Attempt to force me to agree with you? Not gonna happen! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15488 Registered: May-04 | . "Again, the most mature thing you and I can do is pretend each other don't exist. If you disagree with something I say, make a post stating what you think, just not directed at me as in no mention of me, my post etc. I'll do the same with regard to you. Everyone who reads our posts can decide what to believe." Is that not what I did here, james? https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1906517#POST1906517 I din't mention your name. I disagreed with you and I gave three proofs from outside sources which supported my position. Yet you felt I had "disrespected" you in some way and from there the crazy sh!t just got deeper and faster. Look at the opening page to the "amps" section; https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/6.html There are ten threads with you as the last poster and you're posts are minutes apart in some cases on the same thread. What are you trying to prove? I too would like to see an end to all of this. But even when I simply state my opinions I find this at the end of the thread; "Also Oatmeal, don't take ANY advice from Jan! You'll find out why real soon!"; https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/658740.html That was posted as you were running from thread to thread announcing I had linked to a "mistake" which proved what a stupe I was despite the fact you had already been told several times I was not the person who had placed the link. And how did you react once you finally realized it was P's post and link and not my own? Not as any "mature" person would have. I had asked you how old you were so I could understand your background yet you took that as "disrespect" also. "Help me? Right! Obviously asking my age and experience is looking for a way to show me disrespect." https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1906753#POST1906753 "What I didn't appreciate was that every post you made where you disagreed with someone had a condescending tone. Now maybe that wasn't how you meant it, but that is how it came across." I am not responsible for what you cannot hear, do not know or cannot understand. If condescension was not my intent, who is responsible for "how it came across"? If you see any disagreement as my "disrespecting" you, then IMO you shouldn't be on a forum. Your plan to leave each other alone is like your plan for me not to talk to you for a month, it's all to your favor and no one else's. What is your concept of a "forum"? Mine is that this is a place for an exchange of ideas in an open and civilized manner. Not a place where we all ignore the other. Not speaking to another member for fear a fight might break out is not how a forum should operate. I will give you distance should we proceed with both you and I on this forum together and I will try to avoid any conflict but it seems inevitable we are going to disagree on isuues. Disagreement is not disrespect. My policy from the day I arrived at this forum has been not to hold grudges against any other member until they have proven they are not to be trusted. So far, james, you have not proven yourself trustworthy. I suppose just because you didn't create a myspace page or challenge me to a bar fight that you do not see some of your own and Plymouth's actions in those of others with whom I've had past disagreements. Go back and read those few posts again please. My experience says people do not suddenly change their behavior patterns. You still think I fell into your "trap" of a -3dB speaker. I'm glad to hear your friend the student had a good laugh over your retelling of the story but I fail to see how the statement, "A '-3dB' enclosure does not exist", qualifies as falling into any sort of "trap" intended or not. No one here believes what you've claimed there, james, any more than they believe anything else you've overstated or misstated. I asked your age because you come across as a petulant young man who has litle control of his emotions and yet possesses the ability to rationalize your mistakes away with claims that what did happen simply did not occur. What proof can you offer this will not continue to be your MO? What level of "mature" behavior have you expressed up to this point? As to, " She assured me that 99% of what you say is DEAD WRONG!", if that were the truth, I'm amazed more people than you and she have not caught that fact before now. You've seen other members tell you I've asisted them on numerous occasions over the years. How could that be possible if "99% of what (I) say is DEAD WRONG!"? The bulk of my posts exist on forums where "subjective audio" is discussed. In other words, forums which address issues such as whether the perception of any improvement inherent in alternative treatments or controversial devices is real. I can expect anyone going to school to become an EE not to agree with my opinions about such things as Schumann Resonance Devices. Engineering schools seldom breed thinking into a person. Your concept that anyone can post links is true but your conclusion that no link can be trusted is faulty and self serving. Do I need to explain why? And then there is the issue of the single most vile and offensive post anyone on this forum has seen. And I should apologize to you for asking your age as doing so was so "disrespectful" that it sparked such a post? james, I am not interested in any more conflict here and the fact you are now speaking as the voice of reason for both you and Plymouth is, quite frankly, astounding to say the least. In case you hadn't noticed, no one here other than P likes you or your ways. What you propose is not much more than what I see as the, "Mom! He touched me", approach to making up. It is the final resort of someone who cannot control their emotions. Where did I ever make an attempt to "force" you to agree with me? That's an impossibility on a forum, isn't it? james, what you claim and what you propose is not based in reality. At this point you're either just as p!ssed as before or you've thought this through a bit. Look at the responses you have received from other forum members and consider who has been on your side and what sort of forum you are proposing if you and P only talk to one another. No one else here wants you or P to stay and they all would have liked to see you be banned a few days ago. Rather than seeing your error you ran around from thread to thread doing things "mature" people do not engage in. You think about this for a moment and then respond. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15489 Registered: May-04 | . P, I'll have more to say to you, First, it's james' turn to respond. |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15389 Registered: Jan-08 | Jan If you don't want my reply please don't list my name! I think that your post is not the good one to keep the peace here! It sound like a revenge! You and super are identical with always a little word to keep the conflict! |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 249 Registered: Oct-10 | First of all you haven't exactly conducted yourself as a mature person when dealing with me. Posting stupid faces, yelling ROTFLMAO at me every chance you got, You were the first one of us to say "What a stupe! What a worthless stupe!", accusing me of being the kind of person who would put a car neutral and rev the engine just to see what would happen. Persuing me into every thread even ones I started and keeping at me, are not the actions of a mature person. When I started the thread "The truth about bi-wiring", a thread that was neither directed at you or nor meant to be commented on by you, you immediately post another stupid face? I let that go. Then Paul made a wisecrack. I took the high road and explained why I made that thread. Then you came in with that very childish post starting with "What if we don't see any value..." that set me off. By this point, it should have been obvious to you that saying anything at all to me right then and there was a bad idea. But you had put the car in neutral and rev it to see what happen (the car being me) after accusing me of being the type of person who would do that. Do you deny any or all of this? If so, look at your post leading up to my vulgar one. If you can not admit that what you said to me is wrong and that you pushed me to the point of saying that, then you're truly hopeless. The people you told me about are sick, no question there. However, it seems that most them target you exclusively. Ever wonder why? I mean the 7 page post was "Let's Get Jan" right? No one else was mentioned in the title right? Was anyone else mentioned in that post? Did you ever consider that maybe you offend some people with your way of speaking to them? So far you've been blessed or fortunate whatever you want to call it. None of these people are capable of much more than idle threats and silly web activities. What if one is truly a sociopath and a very resouceful one at that? What if he lives within 4 hrs of Dallas? I don't know your age or situation and don't want to, but what if you have a wife, kids, grandkids etc? With your real name and your city of residence on this forum, PLEASE THINK ABOUT THE SAFETY OF YOU AND WHOEVER LIVES WITH YOU! YOUR NEIGHBORS TOO! My plan for us to ignore each other would benefit everyone. You & I don't insult each other. No one has to see ugliness. When I first posted in a thread, you responded with "James, may I ask your age and experience?" It's been my experience that when one person asks this of another and gets an answer, the person who asked responds with "Well, I'm this age and I've done this, this and this! So you just shut your mouth Jr!" I didn't tolerate that when I was young and I sure won't stand for it now! This question came just after I saw how you spoke to other people and was already turned off by you. Putting Plymouth aside, before even made my first post I saw how you spoke to your supporters. I didn't like it. I felt you talked down to them and that you were arrogant. I was really hoping that I'd see more of interactions with other people before you spoke to me so I could see if that was really how you are or just a missperception on my part. No chance to find out. Your response to my post about efficiency was way to long and for the life of me, I can not imagine how anyone can follow that. I'm sorry, but it makes no sense what so ever! As far as helping me goes, I didn't ask for help and didn't want it. If I believe something in err and am determined it's true, that's my problem and my business. I never said that links can't be trusted. My point is that since it's possible find links that say anything you want to say, relying on them alone as proof is shaky at best. If you conducted experiments, (provided you have time) caught them on video and posted the those videos, that would be irrefutable proof. Besides, when someone posts links that say something contrary to what you believe, you don't believe what they say anyway. Your links are legit and no one else's are? You still don't know what the -3 dB enclosure thing was about? I knew darn well there no such thing. You had stated that you were going to ignore me. So, I said that because I knew you'd respond. Then you said "back to ignoring you" We saw what happened next. I know quite a few engineers, electronic and otherwise and all of them are quite capable of thinking thank you very much! Since I first joined ecoustics, I haven't liked you. I am further away from liking you now than I was at first. When you kept insulting and attacking everything I said, that certainly is an attempt to force me to agree with you. It's also a form of cyber bullying. I don't know why you or anyone else would want to see Plymouth gone. He begged me not engage in the insults with you. If spoken to respectfully, there is no reason for anyone to dislike him. Yes, reading his posts takes a little extra time and patience. I don't see a problem with taking that time. If only he were to continue talking to me, at least I would know I'd be respected So, I let you ponder all of this. Ttyl. |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15393 Registered: Jan-08 | Super Just for laugh read those threads: This one about the new Harman Kardon: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/659326.html Even HK promote the High current then the low damping! This one a easy solution: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/659019.html This one look like a roman: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/659363.html |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 250 Registered: Oct-10 | Plymouth, I appreciate your support as always, but I think and at least hope that Jan and I have reached some sort of truce or will soon. If you can do the same with him, I think everyone will appreciate not seeing the ugliness anymore. Obviously, you & I will always be the black sheep of ecoustics. I can live with that, can you? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15490 Registered: May-04 | . "Persuing me into every thread even ones I started and keeping at me, are not the actions of a mature person. When I started the thread "The truth about bi-wiring", a thread that was neither directed at you or nor meant to be commented on by you ... " It's a public forum. I did not "pursue" you anywhere. Look at the ten threads with your name on them and take stock of what you've done. " ... look at your post leading up to my vulgar one. If you can not admit that what you said to me is wrong and that you pushed me to the point of saying that, then you're truly hopeless." MOM! he's touching me again!!! That does not justify what you've posted. "When I first posted in a thread, you responded with 'James, may I ask your age and experience?' It's been my experience that when one person asks this of another and gets an answer, the person who asked responds with 'Well, I'm this age and I've done this, this and this! So you just shut your mouth Jr!'" As you say, "Did you ever consider that maybe you offend some people with your way of speaking to them?" Don't try to read my mind or anticipate what I will ask. Once again, what you cannot hear, do not know or cannot understand is not my responsibility. Learn that you control how you react to people and "not taking it" is seldom the best first response. You are making up your mind before you have any proof of what is and is to come. Take stock of what you've done. "I saw how you spoke to your supporters. I didn't like it. I felt you talked down to them and that you were arrogant." My "supporters"? This isn't a sport, james, we're not on teams. There are other forum members here. They get to make up their own mind about things. We carry on conversations not prayer meetings. (Oh, hey, didja'all get my bumperstickers, "Vote for Jan"? I sent them out to all of you 'cept those who haven't paid next month's "Jan Club" dues. ) "Your response to my post about efficiency was way to long and for the life of me, I can not imagine how anyone can follow that." It's a common problem I run into. People who don't like me tend to have extremely short attention spans. I think that's why they like "F**k you" so much and why they have such a difficult time with actual facts. Anyone else have problems with this; https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=1906517#POST1906517 "I'm sorry, but it makes no sense what so ever! As far as helping me goes, I didn't ask for help and didn't want it. If I believe something in err and am determined it's true, that's my problem and my business." I have a difficult time believing you are "sorry". I've spent over six years on this forum trying to disseminate correct information. My concern is not with someone who is unwilling to face a contradiction to what they already "know". My information is and was intended for anyone else who might come across your incorrect information. You misstated the facts regarding "efficiency" and "sensitivity". As I have said, it's a public forum and as such you were free to read the information I posted just as would anyone else. I assumed three different outside sources indicating you were in error would have been of interest to you. Obviously, you prefer to accept all you have in your head at this very moment as all that ever need be in your head for the rest of eternity. That too is not my problem. If you don't want information, someone else surely will find it useful. If you find it too difficult to "follow", the "mature" thing to do would be to ask for clarification. That's how forums run without disrespecting other members. I mean, read what you just posted, "If I believe something in err and am determined it's true, that's my problem ... " Aaaaah, but, if I believe something in err and am determined it's true, that is your business?! You see, james, most people who really, really hate me find me despicable because I can show them the contradictions in their own words and I can point out the faulty or non-existent "logic" in how they draw conclusions. It frustrates them. In that, again, you are no different than the rest. "I never said that links can't be trusted." Yes, you have, don't you remember the "anyone can find proof, what's that prove" episode? It's coming up in re-runs from what I can see. It's the one where the Beav says to Wally, "Heeeeey, .... " "My point is that since it's possible find links that say anything you want to say, relying on them alone as proof is shaky at best." Who else here believes that? "If you conducted experiments, (provided you have time) caught them on video and posted the those videos, that would be irrefutable proof." Hardly, most people - even those with degrees in such things - have a very difficult time assembling a "scientific" experiment that is not faulty and error ridden. I come across this almost weekly in those threads regarding subjective audio. Quite literally, and as any police officer or DA will tell you, eye witness acounts are often the most unreliable evidence. Besides, I supplied P with a video on cable resonance and either he didn't bother to watch it or he totally discounted the authority who offered proof I was right and P was wrong. P still does not understand cable resonance despite all the evidence and links I supplied. I am not responsible for what you cannot hear or see or for what you do not wish to know or what you cannot understand. Please don't make me repeat that again. " Your links are legit and no one else's are?" Uh ... yeah they are. I don't link to opinions, everyone has opinions. I purposely link to facts which are most often and whenever possible provided from sources more reliable and more authoritative than a Wiki link - which P passes off frequently. You wanted to believe P's link to the woofer - the one you spent the afternoon hollering about - "proved" something but you are absolutely unwilling to believe anything which disproves what you have already attached with cement to your opinions. You are being illogical once again. You cannot pick and choose which proofs you want to accept and which you will refuse based upon who you dislike. "You still don't know what the -3 dB enclosure thing was about? I knew darn well there no such thing. You had stated that you were going to ignore me. So, I said that because I knew you'd respond. Then you said "back to ignoring you" We saw what happened next." No one believed the story as you told it then and no one believes the story as you are telling it now. You have a severe credibility problem. I have found it impossible to ignore someone who cannot post a fact which is true. By the way, I thought you were going to ignore me now? "I know quite a few engineers, electronic and otherwise and all of them are quite capable of thinking thank you very much!" I've known and worked with quite a few also and I have almost 25k posts in forums where they reside. A few of them are quite resourceful at thinking, just not all that many. Those who manage to think are almost always disliked by those who do not. For most of them rote memorization and acceptance of what they have been told to believe is bred into them in school and insisted upon in their employment. None the less, their ability to think does not automatically rub off on you when you have already decided you know all there is to know and will not allow a dissenting voice within earshot. "Since I first joined ecoustics, I haven't liked you. I am further away from liking you now than I was at first" ROTFLMAO!!! I, on the other hand, do not harbor grudges against anyone until they have proven they are unworthy of my trust. I have even assisted those with whom I have had less than cordial conversations. What did your mother teach you? "When you kept insulting and attacking everything I said, that certainly is an attempt to force me to agree with you. It's also a form of cyber bullying." You, young man (and I get to call you that because I am obviously your senior), have no desire nor the ability to actually converse with another intelligent being. You have made up your mind and you will not see another person's opinion or their facts even when there are several people on this forum who have all expresed exactly the same opinion of you and your actions and words. "I don't know why you or anyone else would want to see Plymouth gone." Look around, there are quite a number of people on all of the forums who do. "Yes, reading his posts takes a little extra time and patience. I don't see a problem with taking that time." I suppose you also do not see a problem with the time it takes to be insulted without cause. The time it takes to read P's posts is not what we are having problems with. "If only he were to continue talking to me, at least I would know I'd be respected" Isn't that a line from some old horror flick about the psycho killer? It always ends poorly. james, if only you would continue talking to any of us without the insults and with an open mind that does not lash out at disagreement, you might eventually be respected here. As is, you have a very long path to just being accepted or wanted here. Take stock in what you have brought on yourself. All those posting in these threads have made it quite clear how they feel about you and why they feel so. Simply insisting you are right and all others are wrong is what got you to this place. Ten threads with your name on them got you to this place. This is a public forum, james. If you cannot behave in public and accept that there will be people with whom you disagree and can do so civilly, then you do not belong on this or any other forum until you can understand those basic needs of being mature. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15493 Registered: May-04 | . Are there any other ideas for how james and I can get along in the future? |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 251 Registered: Oct-10 | Seriously Jan? You're not going to claim your responsiblity in this dispute? And you're still going to talk about maturity? HOW DARE YOU?! If at some point in the very distant future, YOU man up and see your part in this, perhaps I might respect you. I did not have these arguments by myself did I? The insults hurled back & forth, I didn't do that alone did I? NO! I had an opponent to argue with and exchange insults with, etc. Anyone wanna guess who it was? Why it was jan vigne! At least I have the maturity to admit that I was wrong to insult you. Obviously, you don't have level of maturity so don't preach about maturity to me! Apparently, you think it's okay to say whatever you want. Well, it's not! And if you ever want me to respect you in the slightest, don't call me "young man"! I don't care if you are older younger, etc. It's not happening. So, seeing that you are far from having the maturity to man up and admit your part in this, don't talk to me. Regardless of how old you are physically, you are still extremely childish and I have no use for you whatsoever! This is not about holding a grudge, this is about you talking about maturity while your speach is slurred by the thumb in your mouth! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Canada Post Number: 3255 Registered: Jun-07 | Superjazzy - fwiw That My Space account is definitely fake. Pinged out with an IP out of Pittsburgh. Jan Vigne would have posted his My Space account from Texas. It is obvious it is fake just by reading the first two sentences. Kind of creepy to say the least that you are searching up the guys name on the internet. And that a forum conversation about Music and Audio equipment is bugging you so bad that you are talking about a guy with so called "engineers" that you don't even personally know. P.S. I deal with Engineers of all sorts on a daily basis and 95 percent of them are completely dumb. I would seriously consider finding a better source. Or simply move on with your experiments bud and just enjoy some tunes. See any live shows lately? Got a new amp lately? Your favorite band coming out with a new album any time soon? Lets talk audio. Enough with the experiments. Nobody cares about wiring 75 speakers up to an amp. I need 2 to make music. Just saying... |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 252 Registered: Oct-10 | Well Nick, my wife bought me a Denon DRA-397 2 yrs ago (b'day gift). It's a stereo receiver with a subwoofer output and I'm still happy with it. Ever hear of The Bad Plus? They're a jazz trio that covers a lot of pop & rock tunes. The bassist converted his upright to electric so it has the depth of an upright and the reverb of electric. Thanks for asking. What's new with you? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15495 Registered: May-04 | . I stand behind what I post. My life on audio forums has been guided by a few simple rules which are largely contained within two straight forward philosophies. I don't hold grudges as I said. I approach each thread as if the last had not occurred. If you p!ss me off today, I might be willing to help you tomorrow. For the most part that's how everyone on this forum right now operates. I do not come to a forum to make enemies yet neither do I come to immediately make freinds. I'm here to discuss audio and not much else. I've made friends on this and other forums and that's fine but I come here to discuss audio. I expect everyone to treat everyone else with the same respect they afford and are afforded by others. To that end, I make an effort not to throw the first stink bomb (I did not disrespect you) and often I'll allow a second blow to land unmentioned. Once you have proven you are not to be trusted, I give back with exactly what I am being given. These attitudes are the result of my understanding that "you do not bring a knife to a gun fight and, if they put one of your's in the hospital, you put one of their's in the morgue". If you have proven yourself untrustworthy and you continue to provoke me, "you do not want to see me when I'm angry". james, what you saw isn't even the tip of the iceberg compared to what I've been through with the jerkwad who created that page and all of his friends. Don't make more of this than there is. So, yes, james, I stand behind what I've posted here and everywhere else I post. If we do not come to a resolution soon, though I would rather not, we might be headed back to my doing more of the same. If you'll now get your thumb out of your bu++, we can continue forward. Don't be so sensitive about whether I call you anything printable. Part of civility is understanding there is always someone older and there is always someone younger than you. If you wear a chip on your shoulder, you're simply asking for someone to knock it off - and they seldom aim for the chip. You should accept that and learn from both older and wiser and younger and less burdened by past slights and inhibitions. Strive to be an example of your own maturity to both groups. Being young is no disgrace. Thinking you have attained all the knowledge you will ever require is. Most of us would prefer to be young rather than old and those who enjoy being old realize how little they have actually learned in all those years. IMO you have a long way to go on all those fronts. There are far more important things to raise your blood presssure than audio and audio forums. . |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 253 Registered: Oct-10 | That's a big whatever Jan! Just don't be surprised or offended when I don't talk to you or answer your questions. okay? |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15394 Registered: Jan-08 | tabarnak! I know now why this audio forum is down with the sh1t I heard since 1 month! First Yan you are the worst azz hole that I knew nothing less then I can prove with many of your post over the Net, LK is nothing in front of you! Nick K Why you created this focking Facebook account? Super I support you! I'm here to revive this forum then I can see what is the problem now! A bunch of pretender with none knowledge at all like Jan which like listen himself! Jan you got a big problem now! I'm here! Ho! No comment on it>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Plymouth Platinum Member Username: Plymouth Canada Post Number: 15393 Registered: Jan-08 Posted on Friday, October 29, 2010 - 05:35 pm: Super Just for laugh read those threads: This one about the new Harman Kardon: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/659326.html Even HK promote the High current then the low damping! This one a easy solution: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/659019.html This one look like a roman: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/659363.html |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 254 Registered: Oct-10 | Plymouth, you are better off not talking to or about him. Nick is okay by me. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Canada Post Number: 3258 Registered: Jun-07 | Facebook account? wtf is this guy saying? SuperJazzy- can you explain to me what Plymouth just said? |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15398 Registered: Jan-08 | Nick Sorry! With the too much long roman of Jan I missed that you talked of fwiw, I thought you talked about Jan Vine facebook account! Sorry again! Jan we wait for your "Sorry again"! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Canada Post Number: 3261 Registered: Jun-07 | Apology accepted. No more apology talk. Lets talk music. Rage against the machine is in the studio together right now. Thats all I want to think about.lol. |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15400 Registered: Jan-08 | LOL! Nick Good for a good beer???? |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15401 Registered: Jan-08 | I'm now on Sirius 70's! Sh1t I'm old! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Canada Post Number: 3263 Registered: Jun-07 | Not drinking tonight. Saving the beer drinking for tomorrow.lol. |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15402 Registered: Jan-08 | Good point! It's my Birthday party tomorrow! I just started tonight to practice for tomorrow! |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 257 Registered: Oct-10 | Happy birthday Plymouth! Anyone who likes bass should check out the Miles Davis albums; B****es Brew, Big Fun, Tribute to Jack Johnson (the boxer) and On the Corner. They're best listened to in the dark. |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1067 Registered: Jul-07 | "Are there any other ideas for how james and I can get along in the future?" Not at the moment. He doesn't think he's responsible for his actions, so that makes for a poor starting point. You'll have even less luck with Plymouth IMO. Guy thinks he's here to save us for Pete's sake. From what I have no idea. Pretty gloomy outlook for this forum, sadly. |
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Platinum Member Username: PlymouthCanada Post Number: 15410 Registered: Jan-08 | Super Thanks! The party is tonight but my birthday is tomorrow! |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 260 Registered: Oct-10 | I have no problem admitting that what I said to your fearless leader was wrong. He can not admit his wrong doing. That's the root of the problem Chris! Then he talks to me about maturity? So far, of all the people I've encountered in my whole life, he's the very last one to give anyone a lecture about maturity. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 261 Registered: Oct-10 | You're welcome Plymouth! |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1068 Registered: Jul-07 | "I have no problem admitting that what I said to your fearless leader was wrong." Then do it James ! Without the qualifiers that somehow Jan drove you to it. You START to apologize, and then in the same sentence say you'd do it again if "backed into a corner"......whatever that means in an audio forum. You had your mind made up about Jan before you made your first post (you admitted this above) and then overreacted. You didn't like how Jan "talked down" to his "supporters". Well, we're not his "supporters", and we'll be the judge of whether we're being talked down to or not. I don't need you to do that for me. So you can continue to ask Jan for an apology if you like, but you're at fault and horribly overreacted to the circumstances. Nut up about it. And for someone so sensitive to being told you are incorrect, you state an awful lot of opinions. Not a good mix. None of us are perfect James, but most are open to learning something. I don't know why you get so abusive when being challenged on your thinking. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 267 Registered: Oct-10 | Chris, apparently you don't see what's wrong with what Jan was saying to me just before I made that post. I don't know what to tell you then other than that I don't intend to discuss this with you any further. I'll just tell you this: Let someone say to you the sort of things Jan said to me and see how you react. Let me know just how much you like that. I never claimed to be perfect. Jan's not perfect either, but apparently you and all of his supporters, followers or whatever you are think he is and therefore can do no wrong. While the guy who made the fake myspace page is sick for doing so, the Hitler connection is not really so far off. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 15499 Registered: May-04 | . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law CH, on most forums it's a recognized rule that the first person to go there is the (a?) loser. . |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1071 Registered: Jul-07 | "While the guy who made the fake myspace page is sick for doing so, the Hitler connection is not really so far off." You're hopeless. "Let someone say to you the sort of things Jan said to me and see how you react." Jan has addressed me in a very similar matter as everyone else. I didn't resort to the comments you made, nor do most people. Sorry guy, try as you might, your reactions are not transferrable. They're completely your own. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 270 Registered: Oct-10 | You, jan and all of his other minions are hopeless. Try saying to Jan the sorts of things Jan said to me, NOT what I said to him, what he said to me. See how well he handles his own words. Let everyone in here try that. You'll see what jan vigne is all about then. |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1074 Registered: Jul-07 | "Minions" ? P!ss off James. Your insults continue. I don't agree with you so I'm a "minion" ? Again, your logic escapes me. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 273 Registered: Oct-10 | ALL logic escapes you Chris! |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1076 Registered: Jul-07 | "ALL logic escapes you Chris!" So, here we go again ? And again, you'll take no responsibility for your actions ? |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 275 Registered: Oct-10 | Tell me this Chris: What would Jan have to say or do to you, me or anyone for you to find it offensive? Are you really meaning to tell me that you don't see anything wrong with anything he said to me? Is it really so one sided in here? Where is the logic in that? |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1077 Registered: Jul-07 | "Where is the logic in that?" Here is the logic. You refuse to go back and see how it started. Your defense has only been that Jan had somehow offended you before you made your first post......by his alleged demeanor to others, who aren't b!itching about it. You went to incredible lengths on this forum with your disgusting and offensive posts, yet take no responsibility for them AT ALL! It's simply logic James. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS!!!!!!! Take responsibility, and stop blaming others !! GET IT !! I know, you won't look at yourself or your actions critically, so I might as well stop trying to point out the obvious. Your mind is made up and you don't have the balls to take responsibility for your words. It has always been someone else's fault hasn't it James ? |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 280 Registered: Oct-10 | Chris! Jan "Bozo the clown, Adolf Hitler" Vigne called me ignorant. That was the first insult hurled. Or is it inconvenient for you to see that? He CHOSE to call me ignorant! DO YOU GET THAT!? |
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Gold Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 1080 Registered: Jul-07 | Ignorant at this point isn't an insult James. The names you've thrown around since most decidedly are. And for the sake of those of us who had relatives who served and died in WWII, please, cease with the Hitler references. You probably have no idea how ignorant you are being, but please stop. |
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Silver Member Username: SuperjazzyjamesPost Number: 282 Registered: Oct-10 | Good point about the Hitler reference. Sorry about that |
